Class 2 or class 3?
Posted by ReadyHeat1898@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 37 comments
I am looking for a new eBike. I had a class 2 (Aventon) and had major problems with the battery (while in and out of warranty). I am looking for something more reliable and am considering a class 3 this time. Is it worth losing the throttle for a Bosch component? Are they that much more reliable? I live in a hilly place and often have to start from a stop on a hill. I have my eye on the Cannondale Tesoro.
the_atomic_punk18@reddit
They make e-bikes where you can switch between classes, why not choose one of those?
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
Because none of those ones are actually legal
the_atomic_punk18@reddit
Legal for what?
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Clueless not curious doesnt realize that almost all ebikes can go faster than 20mph. That the 20mph cap is a software setting.
You are right that you can get a hybrid class 2/3 ebike and remove the throttle when you configure it as class 3. It is then compliant even with California's asinine regulations.
CuriousMe6987@reddit
Because if a bike can go faster than 20 mph and has a throttle, it is neither class 2 nor class 3 and is not street legal.....no matter what manufacturers say.
BoringBob84@reddit
Please check the law where you live. For example, Minnesota allows combination Class 2 / Class 3 ebikes (i.e., 28 MPH and throttle up to 20 MPH) and California allows throttles on Class 1 and 3 ebikes up to walking speed (i.e., 3.7 MPH, 6 kph). This would be handy for getting started, especially on hills.
Personally, I don't have a throttle and I have no desire to add one. Starting on hills can be a challenge, but not excessively so (especially if I am doing a track stand).
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
Cali and Minnesota both adopted the model legislation, which does not provide for hybrid class 2/3 bikes or throttles on class 1/3 bikes.
BoringBob84@reddit
That is not true. I checked my facts before I made my claims.
California EBike Definitions
Minnesota EBike Definitions
hsfguy0@reddit
Some people don't realize that the laws vary from state to state, and occasionally are different in cities. So they get all high and mighty whilst being totally wrong.
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
The laws are actually fairly uniform. Most states adopted the people for bikes model legislation verbatim, a few states made some minor language tweaks. Only Alaska is a total free for all.
https://www.peopleforbikes.org/topics/electric-bikes
gregoryofthehighgods@reddit
You can get a class three that also functions as a class 2
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
Not legally. The brands selling these deliberately misleading customers. No state ebike laws recognize this kind of set up.
gregoryofthehighgods@reddit
Even if its locked into either class 2 or 3 no full throttle past 20mph?
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
The law is egregiously absurd. But there is still no reason to not get a class 3 capable bike with a removable throttle and customizable top speed which can be configured to adhere to the law if looking at a hub drive.
The hybrid class 2/3 bike is no different than a class 2 bike below 20mph and no different than a class 3 bike above 20mph. It simply offers riders convenience and flexibility. It's not doing anything that other bikes are not doing legally. And the people who mindlessly parrot the law without at least recognizing that the law is asinine are doing a disservice.
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
You can absolutely remove the throttle from a class 2, reprogram it, and use it purely as a class 3. In fact, that is contemplated by the model legislation. You just can't have this hybrid bike, especially since basically all of them just say it's a hybrid but are in fact entirely illegal.
But I agree that the law is completely asinine. There's no reason anything labeled a bicycle should have a throttle at all. Class 2 ebikes should really just be classified as motor vehicles, especially since most manufacturers are really just building and selling illegal motor vehicles mislabeled as ebikes anyway.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
One day you will be a senior or have health conditions that make pedaling difficult and come to regret your comment. But I've heard enough of your BS already.
CuriousMe6987@reddit
It doesn't matter how many different threads you say this in....it doesn't change the law. It's clear what you want to be true....but wanting the law to be different than it is doesn't change the law.
These "hybrid" bikes are neither class 2 or class 3 and are not street legal.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Nowhere did I say it changes the law.
The hybrid class 2/3 bikes are functionally identical to a class 2 bike under 20mph and functionally identical to a class 3 bike above 20mph. That is a fact. If this ever went to court, I think it could be overturned on that basis.
And all of you saying but "the law says" cannot refute how ridiculous this restriction is. Nor can you defend depriving someone of the safety factor of a throttle riding in traffic on a class 3 ebike. A throttle helps clear intersections quickly.
This law is asinine and dangerous. The only people who will comply are the mature and responsible riders who are not already putting others at risk. The Surron and Talaria crowd could care less.
That something is law is no reason to not speak out against it. Anyone who has studied history would know this. Laws come and go as people become wiser.
CuriousMe6987@reddit
You haven't been speaking out about it....you've been ignoring the illegality of it because you don't like the law.
I'm all for working with legislature to change laws. Encouraging folks to break the law, by ignoring it because you think it is asinine...isn't that.
There are all sorts of laws that don't align with my opinion....that doesn't mean I just ig ore them....that's a child's response.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
You've intentionally mischaracterized my actions. I have no tolerance for that.
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
Boohoo
EVE_Burner_Account@reddit
Nope. Each class has a specific definition, and those definitions don't provide for this. Its a transparent attempt to mislead consumers and sell them illegal mopeds without having to go through the regulations associated with selling motor vehicles.
Adventurous-Quote190@reddit
No. A class 3 cannot have a throttle at all.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
If you remove the throttle when set to class 3 speeds, it is completely legal. Something that the "but the law" people don't seem to grasp.
And preserves your option of having a throttle capable ebike and class 3 ebike without having to purchase two separate bikes.
CuriousMe6987@reddit
No matter what users say here, it doesn't matter if they are "functionally identical" they are not street legal, and not being upfront about that important distinction when discussing them is disingenuous at best and deceptive at worse
JPBillingsgate@reddit
There have been maybe two occasions where I kind of wish I had a throttle, and both involved getting going on a short but very steep section, but those were easy enough to work around. Overall, I am otherwise very happy not having a throttle. My bike rides and acts like a bike, just with more oomph, which is what I wanted.
I'll echo what /u/EmbarrassedMenu8389 since they said it better. You have to plan ahead, just like on a regular bike.
I am very happy with the Bosch system and am glad I paid a little extra to get it. I would have actually bought a Class 1 instead as I almost never need pedal assist past 20mph but they didn't make the bike I otherwise wanted in a Class 1.
L-W-J@reddit
two turbo Vado's and one turbo levo in my garage. They are pretty great.
OpeningAgreeable8575@reddit
I have a specialized Vado turbo myself cl2. It’s awesome bought it used from theproscloset. I’ve had it 4 years no issues. I ride every weekend and during the week when I can I get 35-40miles per charge. I’m 200lbs
L-W-J@reddit
Both of the Vado's I own were second hand. One was $1500 one was $1700. Low hours / charges. Pretty amazing. Convinced me to buy the Levo.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Specialized uses Brose motors.
L-W-J@reddit
Agreed. Just a data point.
iregreteverything15@reddit
Yes, mid drive systems like Bosch are really nice. Also, consider where you will be riding. Do you really need or even want the extra speed of a class 3? Or would Class 1 mid dive work better?
For instance, where i live, most of the street speed limits are 20 mph. And any streets or roads that do have higher limits will either have a bike lane, a separated path, or be a place you don't want to cycle at all.
Fair-Discipline-1005@reddit
Throttle really helping me,but this is your decision...👍
EmbarrassedMenu8389@reddit
Huge Bosch fan. The mid drive motor has a very natural feel. In the Bosch motor family, if you live in a hilly area, I would get anything with a Performance line, the Active line is not enough torque for hills, IMO. It’s doable but more is better. I don’t think you’ll miss the throttle at all but you will want to plan ahead for stopping at the base of a hill just like you would with a regular bike. Either stay in middle gears or remember to downshift. The assist from a Bosch performance line motor is PLENTY but if you are in a high gear, it won’t blast off from a stop like a throttle bike does.
Wants-NotNeeds@reddit
Don’t hesitate on the Tesoro.
Deansies@reddit
I will second a class 3 Bosch. I have one in a hilly city that absolutely rocks the steeps and has a great battery life. Going on 2 years strong and I've had zero battery issues. It rains a lot here but no problems with the Shimano drivetrain either, just regular maintenance. I have a Gazelle, can't go wrong with their warranty - they've been a company for over 100 years and stand behind their quality.
Adventurous-Quote190@reddit
It's really not a big deal losing the throttle, especially on the higher quality bikes because the drivetrains are so much nicer. Also, yes, Bosch equipment is top of the line. It's the most reliable you can get, and it's actually repairable too.