Why does everyone hate libertarians so much
Posted by Trevor_Eklof6@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 151 comments
It seems like all the left has to do is allow economic freedom and all the right has to do is allow social freedom. It's like were so close to what both sides really want but we get like 1% of the vote every time.
Why is this movement so unpopular?
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
The modern left is wholly incompatible with libertarian beliefs. The modern left is dominated by the "managerial class" who believe they know what's in everyone's best interests. It's the opposite of freedom. If there is an overlap, it's just because the managerial class thinks it's currently the best policy.
The right does overlap with libertarian beliefs, but has several "ya, but" exceptions where they fear bad actors causing trouble. Ron Paul was very popular in the 2012 GOP presidential primary. In the 2024 primary, Vivek spoke out against foreign wars and that position was popular. DOGE was very popular for what it aimed to do (results are a different matter, but the point is that it at least acknowledged the spending problem).
The big problem the right has with libertarians is that many are too idealistic; that libertarians do not operate in reality. In reality, you can't change government policy on a whim, and there are people who will take advantage of your good will and won't change their habits.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I'm going to assume you're a Republican and I do agree we have more in common with each other than the left. It seems like recently they have drifted further into authoritarianism in an effort to "own the libs" and fighting the stupid culture war not that the left doesn't do the exact same thing of course. Additionally they do not care about fiscal responsibility at all and continue to raise the debt higher every year and not do anything about it.
nimmard@reddit
Republicans/conservatives have always been authoritarian.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
not as severely since before GWB and 9/11 sure it wasn't libertarian levels but compared to the Democrats it was an improvement
nimmard@reddit
I think pre-GWB that conservative authoritarianism did exist, but it was less felt by the majority of americans because they fit into the mold that conservative ideology ascribed to. If you happened to be black, gay, or a part of the counterculture movements, that boot was ever-present.
I don't disagree that Libertarians lean closer to Republicans, but I think that's primarily because of their stated economic policy. Of course in reality, Republicans spend like Democrats except they want to cut taxes while doing it.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Your right, Nixon, Regan, Eisenhower to some extent all had pretty strict social policies. I do think since GWB it's gotten worse in general almost equal to the left's authoritarianism.
Especially since Trump it seems like they don't care all that much about economic policy.
nimmard@reddit
It's kind of ironic, but you could say that Democrats are more fiscally responsible than Republicans have been for at least the last 25 years. Democrats want to tax and spend, while Republicans want to cut taxes and spend.
Which is actually one of the reasons I like Libertarians: you're what the Republicans pretend to be. If you had the chance, you'd cut taxes and not spend, which I can respect even if there's a lot of programs I think should be funded so I'm pretty opposed to your economic policies.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I would personally cut spending and raise taxes to get the deficit under control. It is sad that fiscal responsibility has completely left the Republican party 😒
Thanks for not being rude even though you don't agree though always appreciate that
nimmard@reddit
Fake libertarian spotted! I kid
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Lol after the government mismanagement was under control I would lower them but the economic fallout of the debt in the future is worse than increased taxes today
Not just taxing the rich (who already pay more taxes than in any other development country due to our progressive tax code) but a flat rate on every American
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
You would be wrong. I want small government, but I'm also realistic about achieving it. I'm willing to take steps toward that goal, rather than all-or-nothing.
What do you consider stupid about the "culture war"? A big part of it is preferring merit over sex, skin color, etc.
This is where you're confusing the leadership with the voters. The voters would like to see some fiscal responsibility - or at least an attempt at it. The party leadership at the federal level doesn't seem to care, as you've pointed out. Republican candidates have been underperforming the last few elections precisely because they're out of touch with voters.
A certain portion of Republican voters do just support the "red team" no matter what - and tend to be vocal. But a larger chunk silently disagree with many actions of the national party. They often go with "lesser of two evils" in the general election, as the GOP leadership will actively work against primary candidates who buck party leadership.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I guess that's just the problem of our two party system but I do think a lot of voters could honestly care less about national debt as long as their side is "winning"
And while some aspects of the culture war have some impact most of it is just petty theater and even the issues that have impact aren't top issues
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
The left does not want economic freedom they want total control of the economy and to tell you what is and isn’t allowed socially, with their selling point being you get free healthcare to live longer in their hellscape of micromanagement as for the right they are not for social freedom ask them about prostitution, drugs, pornography, homosexual relationships and transgenders they are totally against both sides are for massive government intervention and control of your life.
The answer to your question is because of decades of propaganda and brainwashing, the welfare state created by the New Deal and the Great Society and the high and power trip both sides get from enforcing their will, simply leaving people alone is a foreign and scary concept to them.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Couldn't have said it better myself brother
Shlazeri@reddit
Just read the responses here. Telling people that don’t agree with you they are stupid, brainwashed, and hate freedom is not much of an as campaign. Also there are no successful examples that I know of. The US was pretty libertarian up to the new deal. That led to a series of economic depressions culminating in 1929 and labor unrest that convinced elites that maybe helping poor people was a good idea.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
The other sides are way more hateful.
Are you saying the new deal caused the great depression I'm confused? Or that it was libertarian free market policies?
I argue market speculation was partially to blame but really the stock market crash was just the last straw.
World war one had destroyed a lot of the developed world. Woodrow Wilson had loaned money to the auntaunt powers and they couldn't pay it back. Government tariffs made the existing problems even worse. The new and inexperienced federal reserve did not have the gold supply to stop bank failures. There were a lot of factors outside of free markets.
Shlazeri@reddit
The Great Depression caused the new deal. And it was just the worst of a series of economic depressions the US experienced in the post civil war period. And your first sentence proves my point. If you’re trying to talk people over to your side calling them hateful is not a great strategy.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
It may prove my point but it's the truth
Besides the OKC bombing which was really just some nut job can you imagine a libertarian hurting someone for their political opinions? While the left and right are out there shooting people and rioting Libertarians are a lot more tolerant to other people's opinions.
Are you trying to say the great depression was caused by new deal policies? You could say they didn't do a lot or nothing to help but they were an affect of the already existing depression
Explic11t@reddit
I know it's a lazy stereotype, but a lot of folks only actual experience with libertarians is "Republicans, but weed" or "guys who boo at politicians for wanting to require driver licenses".
Basically, we do have some ... .... interesting people in our midst, as well as many folks out there who tell people they're Libertarian just so they don't have to tell people they're Republican. Neither of those things help us.
Now excuse me while I continuing prepping for my grenade fishing trip tomorrow morning.
SleepyJ555@reddit
Republicans and Democrats look way more insane to me these days.
vbvahunter@reddit
We’re now referred to as pedos because checks notes one libertarian official was found to be one.
That’s probably what bugs me the most.
PsychedSy@reddit
Between purity spirals and a philosophy that struggles to address humans with volition but no self-ownership things get a little fucky wucky. If you apply the off the shelf answer for adults you get something that triggers a few calls to the FBI, and the more horrid the outcome the more ideologically pure you get to feel.
Should we sell handguns and heroin to minors? No. Seems like a bad idea. So we need a law to.... LET ME STOP YOU THERE, BROTHER. [Insert extended autistic rant about the government monopoly on violence]
There also may or may not be a high percentage that address emotionally charged issues with logic rather than reason. Our reverence for corpses will always mystify me a little. I value my internal purity spirals as a part of my identity, so I can have one of those conversations that have people ready to lynch me and I don't even fucking notice until someone yells something about shooting me for desecrating a grave or something. I have no desire to interact with grannie's dessicated remains - I just don't see them as different from a rock or a twig. You can't commit a crime with no victim. What even is a violation against remains? Sounds like a property crime, and, my brother in Christ, I love me some property rights.
Drug use. Any traffic violation that doesn't involve actually harming someone. Gun rights. Medication regulation. Incest. We purity spiral on all sorts of shit. We find it amusing to come to conclusions that cause us to feel uncomfortable with the outcome because it's consistent with our values. That same detached analysis regarding children is a really bad idea, though. The philosophy is not set up to analyze situations with children so they get included as a moral agent with volition and of fuck oh shit is that Chris Hansen?
4myreditacount@reddit
The more it bugs you the more it becomes "real" its not rational, people aren't rational. I get what you mean, its the cognitive dissonance of presenting facts and opinions don't change. It is what it is. Its just in everything. "This government program is the poverty destroyer 9000" "ok well poverty has only increased and here's all the reasons why, one of them is the poverty destroyer 9000 does the opposite" "we just need to dump more money into the poverty destroyer, then it will finally destroy poverty". There is no escape to these things, I've just started accepting that people don't want to hear the truth and have just given up on it.
vbvahunter@reddit
You’re not wrong, but it’s still not fun to hear.
It’s like when my kid tells me she hates me when she isn’t allowed to do something. I know it’s not true, but it doesn’t make me feel good either.
4myreditacount@reddit
Yeah. I try to not get bugged by things I cant control, but thats not always possible, I get it.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
The sovereign citizen movement has been a disaster for libertarians
These-Instruction677@reddit
Some of the idiotic ideas (I’m sorry they just are) like no drivers license or any government funded things we can’t function without some help from the government.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I do agree it's completely ridiculous it's unrealistic to have a completely hands off government in today's world.
I think the party should focus on more fiscal responsibility ending foreign intervention wherever possible and limiting the power they realistically can.
These-Instruction677@reddit
yup I agree
maestrosouth@reddit
I think Libertarians would benefit from educating the public about Minarchy vs Anarchy.
Anarchy is the pure philosophy.
Minarchy is the pragmatic compromise.
nimmard@reddit
I think Libertarians are great. Their views on how to run the government don't come from hate, which is fantastic.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Well thanks man you would not believe how hateful redditors can be
nimmard@reddit
I think a big issue is that your average Democrat is more likely to run into the stereotypical 'republican who wants legal weed' brand of Libertarian which are pretty gross, and Republicans see you as potential voters and spoilers when they lose elections.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah unfortunately the case
SideRevolutionary454@reddit
2 reasons. 1 is that a lot of self professed libertarians I know were born on 3rd base but think they hit a triple. They don't really understand poverty and suffering, so they come off as smug and out of touch. 2 is that libertarian philosophy is based on shaky axioms that don't translate to reality. Like natural rights for example. At best, natural rights are a good idea, but reality is they are a myth.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I disagree a bit with 2 The constitution is based off natural rights doesn't that question Americans founding principles? If not natural rights what should we base things off of?
SideRevolutionary454@reddit
My point is that natural rights mean nothing without force. It's a cold reality of nature. No one actually has any rights. It's something we tell ourselves. The constitution is a piece of paper. And both the government and corporations don't treat it as anything but. I'm just saying the older I get, it's obvious that the idea of "rights" is unprovable
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
So might makes right is the rule of law?
Natural rights may not be as effective but it's better than the alternative of being a slave.
SideRevolutionary454@reddit
I wish it wasn't so, but look at the world. Libertarianism is a great idea, but in practice, power is what really rules the day.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Well it may be naive to have hope for freedom but I feel that it's a Worthy cause
maestrosouth@reddit
I’ve had this discussion with friends on both sides and it comes down to the appearance of selfishness and an uncaring attitude towards helping others fix their broken lives.
The religious right sees Libertarians having lack of concern for the souls of the godless masses.We should be using authoritarian measures to control undesirable behavior (limit sin).
The left sees a lack of concern for the underprivileged masses and environment. We should be using authoritarian measures to force equity and control undesirable behavior (limit capitalism).
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Well there damn right I don't care and I shouldn't have to care it's my money I earned it and I'll do whatever I want with it. If they see me keeping my own hard earned money as selfishness, I don't think libertarians are going to budge on that issue.
wildgoose2000@reddit
Libertarians are the polar opposite of statists.
Statists tolerate no dissent nor variation of accepted narrative. Very easy to insight statists into action.
Libertarians can't agree on much and won't work together on principal. Completely useless as a movement of people.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately we do struggle with unity
denzien@reddit
/obligatory
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I've never seen this lol
CausalSin@reddit
It's because ancaps have coopted the title. Plain and simple.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah I don't take ancaps seriously lol
tzagoj@reddit
Because Libertarianism, free markets (the most basic natural force itself), is the absence of politics.
The world does not need any politics, it only needs markets, which form in a status of freedom.
Of course loq-IQ (left) people do not understand that, and even right-wing-statists are not able to think out of the box.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
It's just not realistic to have a completely stateless society
atomic-debate@reddit
Many Libertarian answers to global problems are perceived as insufficient. They’re appealing on a microscopic level, but have little macroscopic appeal.
Having earned degrees in philosophy, psychology, and business, I’ve engaged with a wide variety of Libertarian arguments. The reasoning is largely rock-solid on a personal level, but Libertarian answers for global issues like finite resource allocation, long-term climate and environmental catastrophe readiness, and elite collusion to manipulate markets and governments all fall short.
I don’t see Libertarians proving coherent paths forward to humanity’s inevitable encounters with catastrophic events like solar flares that knock out the worlds energy grid, the entirely unnecessary poverty of billions, the dwindling natural resources on our speck of a planet.
Humanity needs a more self-aware posturing that considers the absolute reality that we need to cooperate heavily to survive in the long-term as an advanced species. Libertarianism needs to survive as a counterbalance to authoritarian tendencies, but it’s not a coherent political ideology on its own — it’s just a necessary force.
bravehotelfoxtrot@reddit
Can people cooperate heavily without massive administrative states? Do large masses of humans effectively need to be forced into certain modes of cooperation?
There's no need to reject the reality that human cooperation is necessary. I think you can argue that large administrative states, as they exist today, serve more as a net hindrance to human/societal wellbeing than as a facilitator, practically speaking.
Besides that, it seems arrogant and delusional to think that one knows how millions of different people should be operating in order for society to function "best" or to save the planet or to drastically reduce human suffering or whatever else. I'd rather trust that the most capable among us will eventually get around to solving the problems that need to be solved, provided criminals don't get in their way. We should just direct our collective energy to keeping those criminals away, should we not? Do we need the IRS or a federal department of education for that?
I don't have any answers myself. I'd just love to see more people discussing these topics in these terms.
jash2o2@reddit
It comes down to your definition of a state as well.
Consider a state to be “an organized political community under one government”. This is where I’ll likely diverge from both Libertarians and Communists alike. And that’s because I think there will always be a state.
It sounds absurd, but even a mother and father imposing rules on their child is a form of state. Why? Because anytime there are two human beings on the planet that disagrees, the means of coming to a solution creates a power structure. That power structure is the basis for a state. Someone will either be coerced into changing their mind or they will be imprisoned or killed. Just like the child, if the child disagrees with or disobeys their parents, they will be “jailed” by being put in timeout or grounded or they will in some way be forced to agree.
I truly do not believe humans can cooperate on any meaningful scale without these power structures.
bravehotelfoxtrot@reddit
I can agree with all of that.
To me, saying "states shouldn't exist" is fundamentally no different than saying "a specific type of state should exist," in the sense that both statements are essentially saying "I know how society at large should be managed." Which is the type of attitude I personally detest.
If a bunch of people in a certain geographic area want to team up and organize their own 'state' and structure their own community/society to their liking, who am I or anyone else to say they shouldn't? Sure, I can have my own opinion and voice it, but that's about it. And my personal opinion is ultimately worthless when it comes to how other people want to organize and run their lives.
A massive problem with our modern-day states is their "monopolization" of statehood. And I do understand the paradoxical nature. But I take extreme issue with the fact that we are unable to create our own states or other solutions that may or may not work better than what we have now. I don't know what those solutions might be, and I'm certain that different solutions will be needed for different people in different places. I want those solutions and systems to arise and remain in place because they serve people and their needs/desires, and not simply because this is just the way things are and are upheld by a coercive central state that effectively has no connection to its constituents.
I understand that all of this is easier said than done, but humans have been voluntarily cooperating to solve their problems for millennia and I think it's reasonable to assume we'll continue doing so as our needs evolve.
celestegauthier@reddit
That is why everyone with any power pushes fear. Not fear of them, but fear of literally anything, especially something macroscopic. If people are afraid, they crawl begging to the nearest big brother for protection, whether Left or Right. Don't forget, our entire public education system relies on Appeal to Authority. If students didn't automatically respect their teachers, because of their title of authority, then classes would have to be limited to only a few students per teacher. Appeal to Authority is the basis of Authoritarianism.
denzien@reddit
I think other philosophies go a little to far in the opposite direction, so I submit that libertarian are a necessary foil to keep individual liberties in the global conversation.
txtumbleweed45@reddit
Can you elaborate why lack of central planning would work on a global scale? You’re just asserting that these ideas don’t make sense globally without any explanation
heyarkay@reddit
This is a good summary of the more educated critiques I've encountered.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I do agree with you to some extent there are things that are more powerful than individual actions and libertarianism can't provide answers. However I feel like the collective authority that has had control for the past century or so would struggle to provide answers as well it would be more effective but the sacrifice of personal liberties is not worth it to me especially since the collective risks being authoritarian.
Heavy-Bell-2035@reddit
I'm not aware of many people who hate libertarians except other libertarians. For the most part we're irrelevant to everyone else, and when they do react it's dismissively and based on a caricature of what they've been told libertarianism is.
When you do get a more passionate reaction, it's probably because a lot of libertarians are insufferable human beings and horrible communicators. For example, there was recently a thread on Facebook I saw about some proposed rent control in NY, and the same libertarian in one post who explained how thoroughly politicians, property developers, and landlords collude to make housing more scarce and more expensive to enrich themselves, and how perverse incentives lead even those who aren't involved to build more luxury housing than units normal people could afford, started calling people socialists when they pointed out that if those people were enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else, it makes no sense to claim a law putting a roof on rent hikes would necessarily tank the market.
Basically libertarians point to the crony class, tell everyone else how this class is robbing them blind, and then when the people being lectured, as any normal and reasonable people would, react by asking things like, "well then they probably could afford to pay their employees more, so why is that so bad," or, "if they're so undeservedly rich why the hell can't I take some back by force," or, "then why the hell is it such an imposition that I get more than three paid days off a year," etc., libertarians then turn around and call them socialists, tell them to learn Econ 101, and walk away feeling smug. They insist everyone analyze every situation as if we are currently living in a pure free market and anything at issue is the first and only proposed deviation from the purity that's ever been brought forth.
For all practical purposes the libertarian position is that you're getting robbed blind by the state and its cronies, and any response from you that isn't perfectly in line with the strictest interpretation of the non aggression principle and pure free market economic theory qualifies you as evil and a socialist leftist traitor to the cause. Basically, as long as the mafioso that benefits from the protection racket and the person who breaks yours knees if you don't pay are different people, you can't do anything about it.
That doesn't sell well.
txtumbleweed45@reddit
I think the answer is two fold.
There has been an ungodly amount of money spent to preserve and promote the two party system, and to make any anti-government policy sound insane.
Also, a lot of libertarians are insufferable.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
Yeah. I was driving a few months ago and saw a Libertarian bumper sticker. Once I caught up to them to pass, I looked over and it might have been the irl incarnation of Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons.
makybo91@reddit
meanwhile comic book guy would die without subsidized healthcare
TheRedLions@reddit
He seems to run a successful business and has been hospitalized before and didn't seem worried about the cost of treatment vs worrying about having someone to run his store. He probably has good insurance or enough money to pay for treatment or both.
He's also shown to have a number of highly valuable comics and memorabilia he'd be able to sell if necessary.
librarian1001@reddit
The latter. Absolutely the latter.
txtumbleweed45@reddit
I think the first plays into the second. The fact that these ideas are so unpopular means that those who accept them either believe so deeply that they’re willing to accept the social stigma, or they’re anti-social to begin with
jordanpatriots@reddit
Yeah, cutting $ will never win on the debate stage. "You are killing grandma" "You hate the soldiers (really, the people that say that dont give af about soldiers anyways)" Basically, insert any group after debating a program should be cut.
txtumbleweed45@reddit
Ya that’s really seperate point but very accurate. Libertarian economic solutions are going to cause a lot of short term pain which isn’t inherently popular
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah they do like to push their propaganda
HernandezJG08@reddit
My favorite libertarians are the ones saying we need the government to lock us down. ❤️ /s
Significant_Fee_3089@reddit
Genuinly i don't know, society is stupid.
NomadicSplinter@reddit
Let me refer you to the wisdom from one of our mascots
Shiroiken@reddit
First and foremost, IMO, is that it requires a level of personal responsibility that most people don't really want (even if they say otherwise). The vast majority of peoples' problems are self inflicted, but everyone wants someone to blame. Libertarianism kinda forces you to realize this.
Secondly, politics has become a sport, where everyone must pick a team. Libertarians tend to play by themselves (since we don't even like each other very much), and that doesn't jive with the "if you're not with me, you're against me" mentality people have. It doesn't help that those in power have a vested interest in keeping it this way.
Finally, the name has been smeared by the alt-right and MAGAtarians who have been cosplaying as Libertarians for many years. The average person doesn't actually know anything about real Libertarianism, because they only know what those assholes do and say. Nobody's heard of the NAP, despite it being a core principle.
neomadness@reddit
I used to be a libertarian, but I’m not anymore because I no longer believe that the vast majority of people’s problems are self-inflicted. Mental health plays a huge part in the success of a community and frankly there are a lot of traumatized people in America. Being able to get work and keep it requires a level of stability that many who come out of poverty don’t have. I work a lot with homeless and poor and it’s not an inability — it’s a disability.
stoneylake4@reddit
Because you can’t control them.
HParzivalH@reddit
Honestly, libertarians mostly get dismissed or attacked because they don’t fit neatly into the left-right paradigm, making them easy targets for both sides. they’re the political version of that annoying kid in class who points out the teacher’s contradictions.
howard2112@reddit
I’m not sure people even understand what a libertarian is. I’m not sure I do sometimes. At least not between the ideology and what they see what party stands for.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
It is pretty obscure and there is a lot of gradient tbh
howard2112@reddit
Agreed
TheOverthinkingDude@reddit
Because they know not what they do….
uusrikas@reddit
I used to be a Ron Paul Libertarian type, but seeing so many supposed libertarians sell out their principles because Trump owned the libs made me realize it is not a real ideology. I would call myself a libcon now.
AspirantVeeVee@reddit
Simple, they both want money and control. Libertarianism flies in the face of both
BigEnd3@reddit
From what I see in the real world: libertarians present as either intentional anarchists or delusional idealists that dont realize they present as anarchists. Generally everyone who likes their functioning society hates Anarchists.
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
Because 1)most people prefer the government controll to freedom 2)some freedoms are unpopular, like freedom of association 3)everyone's been sold the idea of MUH FREE STUFF
Honesty_From_A_POS@reddit
"Muh free stuff"
I can tell you this is one reason I get annoyed by libertarians.
I know shit isn't free but im happy to lose a few dollars a month to feeding kids who can't afford lunch for example. But anytime stuff like this gets passed or proposed it's constant crying ans "I shouldn't have to care about others"
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
If i'm forced to pay for "charity", then i haven't actually given charity, I've been stolen from, and the person recieving it feels entitled to it.
New_Disaster_5368@reddit
For me, it's not the "I shouldn't have to care", because I do. Starving people in my community is terrible, and I do actually pay out of my own pocket to help and support those in need, as does much of my family and church community. That's because we recognize that being a good person IS very important for others and society. But, as a Libertarian, the main problem is that I shouldn't be forced to care and consequently forced to pay for someone else's' food. Just like you I'm happy to lose a few dollars a month, as long as I'm the one doing it, and not the government using threat of violence to essentially extort me to feed people. I feel like most sane Libertarians believe in a responsible, moral, and free society. The all of which are hugely important, but they all fall apart without the "free" aspect.
It's like we could have a win lose situation; in which poor people get fed (win), but they are paid for by the government extorting people, (lose). OR we could have a win win situation; where poor people get fed (win), AND people have the freedom to choose if, when, and how much they want to give and consequently the responsibility to be a good person in reinstated (win). That is part of my main Libertarian philosophy anyways
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I particularly hate 3 People seem to just think government handouts are infinite when it's just running up our trillion dollar debt
Joel_the_Devil@reddit
When people vote they have an expectation that the candidate will use power to stop whatever agenda. There’s a perception problem with libertarians using power because people think/treat them as very absent on cultural issues and political issues. They think it’s a self defeating vote to vote for libertarians, because what’s the point of reducing government if you’re not using government to stop other agendas from winning back power to reinstate the government libertarians are trying to shrink.
makybo91@reddit
because only few people like to take responsobility for themselves
Subject_Listen8319@reddit
Because no parties wants to look at other peoples views in a positive way
Ok_Set_4790@reddit
I think because some powerful americans just call themselves libertarian without actually being such, so american binary political climate is alergic to 3rd sides.
Creepy_Refrigerator3@reddit
Just my opinion
End the fed. We cant go back to gold system or bitcoin systems. Debts are necessary. I cant wait 30 years to own a house. I want it now. It also allows companies to borrow money to invest in future techs basically borrowing techs from future. Also gold tend to create getting out of deflationary cycles very hard. Deflation is worse than inflation.
Most libertarians especially reason magazine are weak. They are always silent on the current issues and tend to be loud once situation is dealt. we want solutions now. They were silent on early covid about lockdowns, misinformation about vaccines, blm protests, or on any subsidies etc. A lots of libreterian’s go with break down the big tech monopoly etc.
SmilingHappyLaughing@reddit
Maybe they get confused with librarians?
iamyaM@reddit
Programming.
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
Ignorance, lack of public media attention
celestegauthier@reddit
Public education has engrained Appeal to Authority in every student, so large classes will behave and listen to one teacher. But that engrained Appeal to Authority is used by Media and Politicians to make the public afraid of whatever they want so they can control them.
carlogrimaldi@reddit
People think of libertarians as both believing the rules shouldn’t apply to them, and for being unwilling to chip in for all the stuff we all pay for.
Nalsa-@reddit
Why this movement is so unpopular? Because true freedom is scary.
You can’t blame government, you can’t blame other people and you can’t blame other groups for your own shortcomings.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Do people really hate freedom so much do they just not realize how much better we can do without the government running things for us?
JamesMattDillon@reddit
Have you seen during the pandemic that a lot of people were okay with the government having control over them.
New_Disaster_5368@reddit
That's what was scary to me, and incredibly eye opening. That sooo many people I know just sort of when with it or even fully supported it. People definitely do not value freedom as much as they should. In my opinion at least
celestegauthier@reddit
That is because they fear the unknown more than their government. Remember that our public schools rely on Appeal to Authority so that the students will listen to their teach just because of her title. That same Appeal to Authority is used by Media and Politicians to push fear.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I remember being super pissed during that time especially with how much money was being wasted and how the economy totally shut down
celestegauthier@reddit
People can't imagine what freedom is like, but they have a very good image of fear being pushed by every form of authority figure they know. They are so afraid that they'll sell their friends and family out to any big brother that they think will protect them. Everyone who blocks anyone (other than nuisance spam) on any social media is someone who will sell you out to the next Hitler in a heartbeat.
Nalsa-@reddit
Not trying to be cynical. But yes, most people don’t value freedom too much.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Sad truth in our modern age
mmmmjlko@reddit
It's not just that, people generally like an external structure that helps guide their decisions. After the end of the church, social atomization, and the decline of mass culture, the only thing left is the state.
Manic_Mini@reddit
The majority of people cannot “live and let live”
celestegauthier@reddit
Only because they live in fear because of the constant exposure to fearmongering from all of their respected authority figures.
MorningLtMtn@reddit
The system doesn't want people prioritizing liberty, so it makes people believe libertarians are whackos... And enough libertarians are that it becomes part of the bias.
gfrison@reddit
I think it’s related to the representatives. While socialists strive for imposing their agenda to others, libertarians do not. People with my views consider political activism an useless activity. Good candidates always find something better to do than sitting in parliament
celestegauthier@reddit
Because of fear. Very few things grab as much attention, and thus money, as fearmongering. Libertarians push historical evidence that show that heavy-handed government intervention usually makes things worse. But when everyone is afraid, they need a big brother protector to save them. That is why the Left pushes fear of the Right and vice versa. A very academically accomplished genius that I know once told me why they are a Democrat. She said the main belief among the Democrat leadership is, "People are dumb and dangerous and need to be controlled." I don't personally know any high ranking Republicans, but I would not be surprised if they held the same belief. The fact is that Rich and Powerful people cannot imagine surviving without either, and live in constant TERROR of losing both. Concurrently, city dwellers cannot imagine surviving without their city conveniences so they vote strongly for metropolitan governance. "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"
oboshoe@reddit
Because they think that a libertarian is "this close" to being on their political team if "only they would get it".
And then they blame them for their loss in the polls which is already in single digits.
i.e. Libertarians are a scape goat for small minds.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah they always think a vote for libertarian is in their opponents favor
madmedic22@reddit
Because of the stupid two-party system, it pretty much is that any vote not for one of them is wasted. The only way to get past it is ranked choice voting, as far as I can see.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
What is ranked choice voting?
scaryjobob@reddit
CGP Gray did a great series on this and other election schemes.
4myreditacount@reddit
I dont agree. Libertarianism just isnt popular in modern society anymore.
landlord1776@reddit
The candidates suck. At least they have the last few rounds. Last election was the best possible chance for libertarians and we get the worst candidate possible. It’s almost a joke at this point.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Why are our candidates so bad? It seems like even candidates that would be good like ron Paul back in the day still run as Republicans
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
Many party delegates want ideological purity over a candidate that can actual appeal to voters. The idealized libertarian platform assumes a large change in governing policy overnight, and the average voter can't process that amount of change from the status quo. Not to mention, it's also not realistic to achieve that platform without control of both Congress and the presidency. And the platform only works as a whole.
For example, the 2024 election focused heavily on immigration control, particularly in relation to crime and welfare spending. The LP platform was open borders because it assumes no welfare state. But the welfare state isn't going away any time soon - it took decades to build; it will take decades to unravel. It also did little to address the crime aspect. The platform was completely out of touch with voters.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Ugh I'm not that in touch with party politics because it's honestly irrelevant but that's just horrible
landlord1776@reddit
I guess they know they can only win as a Republican or Democrat in today’s political climate.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
I mean you can't really blame them libertarians have no chance
LanceLynxx@reddit
Because people don't want freedom, they want their side in control to dictate what others can or can't do according to their moral views.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah it seems like each side is ok with whatever as long as the other side is losing
LanceLynxx@reddit
Just look at how leftists bitch and whine at economic freedom and how conservatist bitch at social freedom.
It's not about what's good for individuals, but about what they deem right.
SheepherderRadiant44@reddit
It’s a politically motivated social divide. They have libertarians 4 years to express themselves and now, this is 4 years of the other side. The bigger question is when will the war begin?
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
What are you taking about?
OceanFrost@reddit
Libertarians are seen as 'Republican lite' by both sides instead of as its own ideology. Combine this with the fact that most libertarians are ridiculously dogmatic despite having no power and having some real wackadoos as the face, you get an ideology that's nearly unpalatable at a surface level.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Who are the whackos in the party?
golsol@reddit
Libertarians support freedom while both parties support violence and weaponization of the government.
jordanpatriots@reddit
Sometimes, people that are logical appear to lack emotions in other's view. Also, the idea that "when you are explaining, you are losing." Sadly, many people are too lazy to actually get informed and then have a thoughtful discussion on a topic. So you appear to be "ranting" even if you have a solid argument. So, libertarians probably need to work on tact. . .or just stop caring. Ignorance is bliss.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Well we have to convince people somehow or else we won't get anywhere. It's hard to explain when people are so economically ignorant unfortunately
jhaluska@reddit
It's a couple things.
Mbyoungs@reddit
The issue is practicality vs. theory. Libertarian philosophy is compelling on paper, but many voters see pure free markets as prone to monopolies and environmental externalities, while full social freedom raises concerns about community standards.
Both major parties have built coalitions that blend economic and social positions that appeal to their bases, with compromise baked in. Libertarians often come across as ideologically rigid, rejecting these compromises.
In crypto, we see similar dynamics—purists want complete decentralization, but most users accept some centralization for convenience. Success usually requires balancing ideological purity with pragmatic adoption strategies.
cavari924@reddit
Because people yearn for a feeling of belonging to something more than they genuinely believe in an idea. This feeling turns into tribalism and makes people look at politics as if it was a football game, "it's my team vs yours". The problem people has with libertarianism is that as much as it' a good idea on paper, it won't allow them to "score points" against the opposite team. Liberals want to use taxation under the disguise of social justice to inflict pain on their enemies, Libertarians won't let them. Conservatives want a State police under the disguise of public safety to control their dissenters, Libertarians won't let them.
Libertarianism gives them freedom but stops them from oppressing their adversaries.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah with libertarian policies owing the libs\chuds isn't as fun unfortunately
natermer@reddit
Because we are the ones that tell them their ideas are stupid and won't work.
And then when their stupid ideas don't work they blame us.
LungDOgg@reddit
Hate us cause they ain't us
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Lol I like this answer
Bingomancometh@reddit
It doesn't help that proud boys and alt-right started to show their support at rallies
altoidbreeezy@reddit
From my experience, people try to strawman you as either a right wing extremist or fence hopper. Basic brushing up on libertarianism fundamentals would tell you thats a complete crock of shit.
It’s one of those ideologies that doesn’t mesh well with the two party partisan hellscape we’re subjected to, but that could be said about anything unfamiliar
chewychee@reddit
Chase Oliver...How? As a libertarian this is why I hate libertarians.
CorndogFiddlesticks@reddit
There is definitely a clan of people that despises people keeping the money they earned for themselves, especially if they've done well. Like part of others earnings is theirs.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
People like that really piss me off nothing gives you the right to another person's property
They always claim that the redistribution is out of "kindness"
CorndogFiddlesticks@reddit
Its envy. Not good human.
CommonSensei-_@reddit
We as a group criticize people who support the duopoly . And we criticize them people we are correct, and smarter.
People don’t like to be wrong, or dumb.
So we could be more gentler in our criticism
I think our ideas are catching on.
5% or more, next election.
If Massie goes our way, 10%, easy.
Trevor_Eklof6@reddit (OP)
Yeah I feel like a lot of libertarians have a sense of superiority which hurts the party
I'm hoping for that 10% lol
MKInc@reddit
Libertarians are just the last step on the way to finding peaceful voluntary anarchy as your political religion .