Anarchocapitalism
Posted by BlastyzIm@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 31 comments
What is your opinion on libertarian ideas such as anarcho-capitalism? What steps could be taken to achieve this system?
Posted by BlastyzIm@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 31 comments
What is your opinion on libertarian ideas such as anarcho-capitalism? What steps could be taken to achieve this system?
RagnarBateman@reddit
Anarcho-Capitalism is libertarianism taken to its logical conclusion. Hence why I'm an anarcho-capitalist.
Mindless-Law8046@reddit
have the people proposing it identified its foundation principles. have they identified the foundation principles of the humanities? Have they identified man's common moral code? have they dwefined freedom? How about the rights of man, have they identified them? Their idea of government throws the baby out with the bathwater unless they propose a system with no representatives, a new legal system, a totally redefined court system and Law structure. Do they still have judges and supreme courts? Is power concentratede in the hands of just a few?
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
Anarchocapitalism is the logical conclusion of the NAP as universal law.
Freedom is when i can act withought coersion being exerted upon me by anyone
Each man has a right not to be aggressed against
Our idea of government is no government, law would be enforced by the free market (probably through insurance agencies and private courts).
There would be no political power, and economic power would be harder to exert.
Mindless-Law8046@reddit
Chris, thank you for providing that overview. There are many similarities to my own design.
Your definition of Freedom is partially correct. You need to define all of the forms of coercion. In my response to #4 section describing Rand's philosophy, I provide the only way to identify those forms of coercion. Has anyone else done that? Have they even recognized that problem?
At least you talk about private courts. Not good enough. In the design that I have worked out, there are no brick and mortar courtrooms and no judges. Juries vary in size depending on the kind of coercive act (attack to one of man's survival virtues) the Law describing the violation contains.
The idea of handing such power off to an insurance company just duplicates the same power aggregation that we currently struggle against.
My design requires citizens to control their own legal system from Law creation to Law guided retaliation and enforcement.
The possible retaliations (defined in each Law) will drive the number of jurors required. If the death penalty is one of the retaliations in a specific Law, the jury might have to contain thousands of jurors. Penalties will be associate with % of guilty verdicts.
My system proves that the only valid function of government is to clearly define and enhance the virtue of Self Defense. It has no other rational function.
If you believe that citizens are incapable of stepping up and understanding such things and handling them properly, you believe that civilization must have a ruling class.
People will become as smart as they need to be especially when they realize that all political power rests in their hands.
My system can be built starting immediately by people who grasp why a Law must protect one of man's survival virtues. If an attack to one or more of them can be identified, a request can be submitted for consideration (by an ad-hoc congress) and a Law written up (I give the components of a Law in LP2dot0). I have already designed the Law Creation process and broken it down into steps where each step is handled by a specialized short duration ad-hoc congress. All of it is do-able today although once it starts we will identify the tools that will speed up the process.
I also provide a solution for a cost based system.
For the people who participate in the creation of the system, part ownership of the product will be given. Even though the whole project will require thousands of people to develop and test the Laws and the court proceedings, if it works as I think it will, there will be royalties paid for generations.
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
Coercion is when someone uses the threat of the use of force to control how you act,
Handing off defense to insurance companies doesn't aggregate power like we have now, i can just change insurance companies if they do a bad job at defending me (both in real life and in court)
It's also pointless to make many written laws, there is one law, the Nap
I maintain that the state has no valid function, as in order to exist, it must engage in armed robbery.
Mindless-Law8046@reddit
Chris, in the unworkable system we have today there are Laws that violate our freedoms every day. Both of us know that most of them are faulty and should not exist in a arational legal system. The problem with what you propose is that there is no way to identify when someone is 'coercing' you. the biggest hole in your anarcho-capitalis proposal is that attacks (using brute force is just one form of attack) using deception, obfuscation and outright lies are going to be a big problem without having examples to compare against.
In my proposal, I include man's common moral code of survival. That's a goal that is primary and must occur prior to choosing any other goals. Dead people can't have goals, that appears axiomatic doesn't it?
We survive by performing four virtues: Choice, Seeking the Truth, Self Defense, and Creating a Survival Identity. Your Anarcho-Capitalist proposal doesn't contain the most profound goal shared by every living person on earth: survival. Our two proposals are actually quite close to each other. Yours just doesn't have a basis in Morality, mine does.
You say we can't have a lot of Laws, ok, so how many does A/C have? Who determines what they are and what will the format of a Law contain? Will it specify what the penalties are, how many people will participate in the jury, what are the processes that must be followed for determining if a violation has occurred and how is the retaliation determined?
Like it or not, A/C will have a legal system and it will have Laws that will guide the process of justice.
My solution has no 'representatives', no judges, no supreme courts and no concentration of political power.
There are more ways for people to prey upon one another other than just whacking them on the head and taking what they have.
My system requires intelligent and informed citizens because it is part of the moral code of survival. Each person is responsible for their own survival (adults) and that means that they must perform all four virtues of their survival moral code when it is necessary. These truths were identified by me by a mind experiment of one person alone in the wilderness trying to survive. Predators in the wild had to be dealt with using Self Defense. How does a predator in the wild kill the lone person? by making the four virtues impossible to perform. The survivor must perform the virtue of Self Defense and protect all four virtues. If he/she can do that then survival can be attained barring a natural disaster or accident.
Self defense deals with predators that want to make man into a meal. Nothing changes when entering society except the nature of the predator is much more dangerous. Government always took root in the implied enhancement to Self Defense.
The natural tendency is to hand off the self defense functions to your own band of brutes who can deal with the predators (bad guys) on your behalf. That always has been and always will be a really bad idea but it was the only thing available to ancient civilizations.
in my proposal, the survival moral code requires the participation of everyone in the virtue of self defense.
That is completely missing from the A/C proposal.
I can PROVE why everyone must participate in the enhancement and clarification of Self Defense.
My solution is based upon the nature of man and recognizes what he has to perform in order to survive.
My system demands that humans be human and if they want to be treated like a human they must accept their own nature as such.
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
Your system seems like it's a admittedly pretty good but arbitrary "court" it also does have a concentration of political power, the tyranny of the majority.
If you already accept the premise of humans accepting their nature then i can prove why my system is right,
So, man is a rational and social creature, and if man ought to accept his nature he ought to act to bring about rational (civil society),
civil society is one where no aggression takes place (if everyone engaged in aggression there would be no society),
any government, even democratic, presumes that some group has a right to legislate the actions of another group,
If a man does engage in aggression, then he is no longer accepting his nature, or taking part in civil society, so he ought not be part of society at all.
And here we have anarchocapitalism.
I don't personally actually see why i should hold the premise about humans accepting their nature beyond just it produces an outcome i like(moral nihilism's a bitch)
(My name is not chris btw lol)
Evening_Lynx_9348@reddit
It’s not anarchy…
Anarchy is destroying all hierarchy and capitalism is fundamentally hierarchical…
Mission_Reception651@reddit
I think Anarcho-capitalism is perfect , but sadly is too hard to achive irl, so I think Minarchism where only military,police and courts stay under goverment control is the best.
TheRadicalJurist@reddit
It’s fine to advocate minarchism as an intermediary goal, but you can’t abandon ancapism in favor of minarchism without contradicting yourself and being wrong. That contradiction being that you must violate rights to protect rights
PsychedSy@reddit
All of us that claim to be ancap but aren't out watering the tree of liberty are living in contradiction. It's fine to hold to your ideal philosophically but choose methods that don't involve an ocean of blood politically.
We'd need to start building infrastructure like insuring private transactions and other legal services while creating organizations that help build up individuals and reduce regulatory hurdles for them to leap. Reject corporatism and the inhumane version of corporations the government has forced into existence. Trade is a technology and regulation freezes it or forces economies into states that are in opposition to human flourishing. We need to free people up to try new things and truly innovate.
TheRadicalJurist@reddit
Actual, consistent libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism. Libertarianism is the legal theory which holds that it’s wrong to aggress, and the state is an institution which could only exist by initiating conflict. I’ve never seen a minarchist or any other small gov type defend their view by answering how the resolve the contradiction in their view of it being required to violate rights to protect rights, which implies that it’s both permitted and not permitted to aggress.
In terms of achieving such a system, actual Libertarians like myself have to just spread the philosophy and do Isaiah’s job to reach the tenant, which are the few people who actually think about philosophy and understand it on a deep level. That requires being unapologetically radical and not compromising the philosophy to appeal to the median voter, since most people are useless fools who only inherent their philosophy from their culture and those around them.
Now I should add that there’s nothing wrong with minarchism as an intermediary goal, I’d definitely vote for Ron Pau or someone like Milie for instance, but minarchism as the final goal is indefensible as that’s an abandonment of principle and the libertarian philosophy.
tzagoj@reddit
I would not even call that an idea, but the original condition of nature. Everything in the world is a market already. Socialists, to one degree or another, mess with that natural phenomenon.
Cease all socialistic interventions.
Bagain@reddit
Anarcho-capitalism isn’t something any of us are going to see in our lifetimes, in any significant way. It requires an majority of citizens under tte thumb of a government to 1: decide they don’t want a government, and 2: then go through the almost insurmountable task of eliminating the government. Your not going to see either of those happen.
Anen-o-me@reddit
You might be surprised.
skeletus@reddit
you don't have to eliminate it. It's not something you have to do but something you just have to stop doing. People just have to stop giving legitimacy to the government, stop participating in elections, stop paying taxes, and stop giving it attention. That's it.
miviejaentanga@reddit
That's agorism basically
Bagain@reddit
Listen, I would love nothing better than getting to step 2, but we aren’t going to. Arguing about how to get to the end result is irrelevant when we won’t ever get through step 1. But also, that is some pie in the sky shit right there; I appreciate it. Nice and hopeful…
skeletus@reddit
I think people are slowly realizing that we don't need it. But if you base it off solely on Reddit, you're going to get the wrong impression.
Bagain@reddit
If your getting any consensus from Reddit for anything your gonna have a bad time.
skeletus@reddit
I know. The impression I'm getting is jot from Reddit. If you base it off Reddit, you'd think communists are becoming the majority.
Zealousideal-Fox-577@reddit
Unfortunately
Bagain@reddit
I’d say, better to accept it and move forward living life as best we can and spread the word.
OmegaReactor@reddit
Libertarian values like self-ownership and free markets align naturally with crypto's decentralization ethos. Anarcho-capitalism represents the extreme end of minimizing state control, but practical steps might include supporting cryptocurrency adoption which creates parallel financial systems outside government control. DAOs (Decentralized Autonomous Organizations) are interesting experiments in voluntary governance without central authority.
Whatever your political leanings, crypto offers tools to increase individual sovereignty - whether you're full AnCap or just want more financial freedom within existing systems.
Notworld@reddit
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
We need a threshold of probably around 3 - 10% of the population to refuse to comply with the crimes of the state and set up rights defense businesses to compete with it and get it's boot off our necks.
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
We'd need more than that, if a majority of the population likes government in general, a new one will crop up
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
"We'd need more than that, if a majority of the population likes government in general, a new one will crop up"
Revolutions happen with less. Idk where you get this outright falsehood but you need to relook at history.
Chris_The_Guinea_Pig@reddit
Oh, I'm not saying a revolution couldn't happen, but if everyone else wants a government someone will fill the power vacumn
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
"Oh, I'm not saying a revolution couldn't happen, but if everyone else wants a government someone will fill the power vacumn"
Idc, they can have their government we will have our rights defense businesses. Not sure what your point is then. The power vaccum could easily be filled with free market rights defense businesses. You need a better argument. It doesn't make any sense.
OffWalrusCargo@reddit
Anarchocapitalism is not libertarian.
An-cap just makes companies into the government and without the benefits of limiting them or changing leadership. Cyberpunk 2077 and Outerworlds 1 show what that life would be like for all but the extremely wealthy.
Libertarianism's is about individual freedoms, and guarantees. I should be able to buy a product and own it not just be leasing it. We need some government to set rules to protect the individuals from the company's.