Rewatching from the beginning. Questions I have.
Posted by Ragman676@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 26 comments
Ive probabably rewatched TNG 3-4 times with reruns back in the day and once it was streaming. I often skip Season 1 cause I feel like the show didnt get its feet until season 2 and theres a heavy layer of cheese season 1. But this time I started from the beginning and was maybe too harsh, there are some epic scenes in Season 1 even if its a bit too over the top. A weird thing I had somehow completely missed is that Troi and Riker knew each other before the Enterprise. Is it safe to assume that Riker and Troi can talk to each other telepathically like they do in episode 1? I never really picked up on that before and Im not sure its overtly stated/done in future episodes. In fact they often say Troi cant read throughts cause shes only half betazoid, but seems to be able to with Riker cause of their bond/imzadi. Im only halfway through season 1 now but Im curious if this is cannon and I just somehow missed it all these years.
MovieFan1984@reddit
I think Riker-Troi telepathy was dropped, there's a lot of early TNG concepts in S1-2 that get dropped S3 onward. In the first episode, Data's on the left, Geordi on the right. They get flipped in the 2nd episode and Data stays on the right for the rest of the series. You'll see a lot of this as the show goes on.
Honestly, TNG breaks up into two eras: S1-2, then S3-7.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
Data is always on the left, except when he's on the right.
Well, from the command chair anyway....
MovieFan1984@reddit
It's just weird seeing Data on the wrong side of the bridge in the first episode.
twoneedlez@reddit
It low key bothers me that they didn’t get the pips right for “All Good Things…”
MovieFan1984@reddit
What do you mean?
twoneedlez@reddit
Data has the rank of Lt JG in the flashback scenes to the first mission.
MovieFan1984@reddit
In the actual episode, is he Lt. JG or Lt. Comm? Maybe they forgot to add the 3rd pip?
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Thanks! Ya I remember avoiding S1 cause I didnt like it that much. I like it more now that Im older but the whacky cheese is still a lot. Also Wesley is implied to be "special" by the alien who soups up the warp drive and I didnt remember that either.
MovieFan1984@reddit
Yeah, his entire story arc stems from that episode and continues in Prodigy S2.
jasonite@reddit
The telepathic bond went away, but Frakes and Sirtis made sure the writers and producers kept their history alive.
jmf0828@reddit
Troi’s abilities aren’t consistent in the early seasons. In that first episode it’s unclear if she and Riker are actuslly communicating telepathically (which would mean that Riker had that power for a minute) or we’re just hearing their own internal dialogue. I can’t recall if there really was a back and forth. Then it’s said that Troi wasn’t a full on Betazoid so she can’t communicate telepathically, just reads their feelings. And then we meet Lwaxanna and she and Deanna have a full on telepathic dialogue with each other for like an entire episode. So, (much like Guinan who’s powers are spoken about but never really displayed for the audience), there’s a lot of inconsistencies with Troi’s psychic capabilities.
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Ya I think she just talks to him actually. Good point!
JoeL284@reddit
What I noticed is that they had no idea what to do with Deanna. As has been noted, if she can read everyone, it would take away the drama, so that skill was quickly dropped. Even the times she did use her "skills", it was to state the obvious. I remember seeing an outtake where she makes one of those "No shit, Sherlock" comments and Patrick said something along the lines of "I can see that, you silly cow!" and the entire cast, including Marina, burst out laughing.
Yes, if I remember correctly, in Encouter at Farpoint, in the turbolift with Riker she asks if he can still communicate with her telepathically, like it was something that had developed between them. Never brought up again.
As special counselor to the Captain, she could have been deeply educated in protocol, law, history and/or diplomacy. She could have been a negotiator whose special talents assisted her job performance. Those skills were pretty much all given to Picard, with some going to Riker.
And then, realizing they needed to up the female cast after losing Tasha, they added Guinan in Season 2, and she immediately became the wise counsel to the crew, especially Picard. That whole scene about slavery and Data's status should have come from Deanna, not Guinan. I loved the addition of Whoopi, but her presence just further undermined Deanna's purpose.
I think the real problem was Roddenberry wanted a beautiful woman, with big boobs, in a traditionally female job on the bridge. There's a reason she didn't wear a traditional uniform. Her character was not properly developed before the show started, and they had no idea what to do with her. Which is a real shame, as she could act with the best of them when given the material.
Even in the movies, they didn't use her well. I just rewatched First Contact. She had very little to do again. The drunken scene was funny, but then she just kind of disappears until the launch. Alfre Woodard had more lines and more to do than she did.
Even in Picard, when she pilots the ship to save the away team, it's really easy to overlook. She says she knows where they are and moves to the con. Cutaway before she even sits down.
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Very interesting. Thanks for the analysis!
Groundbreaking-Pea92@reddit
On betazed troi is the id that wears a helmet takes a short bus and has her mittens sowed to her jackets
rickmccombs@reddit
That's what get for skipping seasons.
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
I watches a lot of these before streaming was a thing and they were re-runs back in the day. Most of my re-views were completely out of order.
Sea_Violinist3328@reddit
Someone over at Marvel asked to then stop ripping off the Cyclops/Jean Grey “psychic rapport”.
Joking.
Also - If I recall the pilot correctly, Will never responds to Deanna, we only Troi’s voice, perhaps the link wasn’t even there at all anymore.
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Actually yes, it seems 1 way.
JugOfVoodoo@reddit
Wait, other episodes (like "Manhunt" and "Second Chances") reference Riker & Troi's pre-Enterprise relationship. Did you not notice, or did you think up an alternate explanation?
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Ya I watched them so sporadically. A lot of the time it was reruns when I could catch them so I forget a lot. Ill check out those episodes more carefully!
chronopoly@reddit
I think they dropped that thread after that episode, tbh
Bushido_Seppuku@reddit
They dropped a lot of her "abilities" after season 1. It didn't take them long to realize her character's abilities were anathema to plot points.
Writer 1: Wait, won't Troi know they're lying?
Writer 2: She can't read them.
Writer 1: OH! Is that because of the species? Is it because of some half betazoid conditon thing like that other episode? Oh, what if she contracts--
Writer 2: Now she's sleeping in her quarters for this scene. Happy?
Unfortunately it took them virtually the length of the series to realize she was actually very interesting without super space-flying Jean Gray powers.
Also, while I'm here, I can't make fun of Troi without mentioning that the character made a far better and more interesting Romulan. Face of the Enemy is a great episode and if I remember correctly she does use her gift subtly, to get out of a ridiculous situation. Marina Sertis really can act if you let her.
Fun game to play while rewatching. See how often you can catch her changing her accent.
Ragman676@reddit (OP)
Thankyou, I was wondering about that. It does seem like they needed to dial it back from a writers stance.
froot_loop_dingus_@reddit
Troy can only telepathically communicate with other betazoids
Donjeur@reddit
Her creepy invasion of his thoughts went the same way as her skant