What are UPS (& other) MD-11 pilots doing during the MD-11 grounding?
Posted by hgwelz@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 68 comments
Are most rated on other types used by their airline?
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/28/us/ups-planes-grounded-crash-delivery-season-hnk
Reasonable_Post_8532@reddit
Updating paper Jepps.
Tony_Three_Pies@reddit
In an airline setting you can’t just switch between airframes even if you hold another type rating (some exceptions may apply). In order for a UPS, or FedEx MD-11 pilot to start flying another type they’d have to go back through training which is expensive and time consuming, especially when you consider follow on effects of a bid like that.
It’s why a garbage can company like Western Global sent their MD11 pilots to the street without warning - cheaper than training or retaining.
hgwelz@reddit (OP)
The pilots were aged 45, 57, and 62. So two were coming up on retirement, and I doubt newer pilots are being trained on the type. I suspect many of the MD-11 pilots are older and nearing retirement.
Environmental_Log792@reddit
I have a freind who went over to UPS back in May, I’m going to let you guess which airframe he’s in…
ABCapt@reddit
You mentioned that and you said that you suspect that…your suspicion is incorrect. Airlines don’t care how old a pilot is, they know their expected retirement date. But things change, people retire early, they get sick, they get hurt and can’t fly anymore. So there are additional variables.
I’m not a UPS pilot but I can make an educated guess based on my 20+ years in the industry: If an airline has a seat to fill, say a captain retired. They will have a vacancy for 1–let’s say MD-11 captain. So a 767 captain puts his bid in for the MD-11 and if his seniority can hold it they will be awarded that position. And in a few weeks or months he will start training on the new airplane. But now there is a vacancy for a 767 captain, so an MD-11 first officer bids for that position and if his seniority can hold it he will be awarded that position and in a few weeks or months he will start training on the new airplane. But now the airline has an empty seat in the MD-11. They need to hire a first officer, so they do and in a few weeks or months he will start training at UPS as an MD-11 first officer.
It is very much like this except 10 or 20 times the number of pilots, or more.
Mike__O@reddit
You have no idea how airline staffing and training work
Tony_Three_Pies@reddit
They’re ages are irrelevant.
ABCapt@reddit
Any airline trains pilots based on need…a new hire that starts today would be trained on the MD-11 if there was a need. Clearly not a need right now, but if they get flying again and there is a vacancy (or need for pilots) on it, a vacancy bid will be sent out showing the need for pilots.
maddoxnysi@reddit
I would assume UPS management would in-vision retiring these old planes some day and would train willing pilots for other airframes as there will be time when they either have to switch or retire, i have a feeling that all of them can fly other frames
JaaacckONeill@reddit
MD-11s make up well over half of their fleet. I think Western Global is in trouble tbh
Traditional-Magician@reddit
They just got out of bankruptcy.
throwawayexplorer17@reddit
Is WGA Garage? 15 of their 19 planes were MD's they barely can fly now and barely operate
Traditional-Magician@reddit
Yes. Poorly ran airline.
hitchhiketoantarctic@reddit
Exactly right.
It’s also why working for a non union carrier is a HUGE gamble. And it’s worth pointing out that Western Global pilots are unionised under ALPA, but that they are still working on negotiating that first contract.
Protections for situations like this are one of the most important parts of a pilots contract, because they don’t affect you much, if ever, in a career…. But when they do….
badgerpointer@reddit
I hope it is not game over for these aircraft. But if it is, I’d like to some of the pilots get a gig with Nomadic to bring them to the barn.
Prestigious_Soil_454@reddit
The guy with the big teeth that is in all the videos with Steve is a scab.
ConstantPlastic5061@reddit
Capitan Bob? Why?
Prestigious_Soil_454@reddit
Yes. Crossed the picket line at Eastern in '89.
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
Their wives think they are flying trips so they have more time with their girlfriends now!!!
HauntingGlass6232@reddit
All UPS pilots are rated on 1 type with the exception of the 757/767 which shares a common type rating. The MD-11 pilots are currently on a paid leave not sure how much their guarantee is. If the MD-11 is officially retired after this then the company and the union will have to come to an agreement on what happens next.
As of right now the MD probably won’t be flying again till next year and that’s still TBD. The inspections haven’t even been approved by the FAA that I know of so at this point we can’t do anything with the jets 🤷🏼♂️
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
Watching my kids fish
deltajvliet@reddit
Where do you get a boot/shoe like that?
Ok-Pomegranate8977@reddit
Ariat work boots from Tractor Supply Company
deltajvliet@reddit
My man
Tacomaguy24@reddit
The boot store
jokr128@reddit
Enjoy that time off!
waldo-jeffers-68@reddit
Hell yeah
Original-Fig4214@reddit
They need to take the Boeing remedial class, ASAP.
philocity@reddit
Hi, I’m dumb. What does this mean and why is it downvoted?
gefahr@reddit
Wondering the same (also dumb), I assumed it just meant for them to get onto that type. No idea why they're downvoted.
Traditional-Magician@reddit
Eff off.
Original-Fig4214@reddit
Not a fan of Boeing? Airbus then? Perhaps COMAC?
Avi8or182@reddit
I got this picture from one of them(UPS) a couple days ago. It’s Maui, in case you’re wondering.
PhteveJuel@reddit
Packers won as well!
slonk_ma_dink@reddit
FTP
deltajvliet@reddit
Go Pack Go
elinamebro@reddit
Im assuming they're still getting paid?
El-Justiciero@reddit
You get paid for hours flown.
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
You get paid a min guarantee
DonkeyBomb2@reddit
Which is still probably a nice amount.
eitilt@reddit
Probably 20-30K a month
hgwelz@reddit (OP)
Are pilots paid more for sitting in the air than sitting on the ground?
Mike__O@reddit
Eating a Cuban sandwich in Key Largo right now.
DoomWad@reddit
Are there any updates from the company on a timeline? Or are they just going to stop flying them all together?
Mike__O@reddit
Only thing from the company is no scheduled flying through no earlier than February. TDB after that. Based on what I've seen and heard so far my bet is 70/30 it never comes back. Right now they're keeping everyone current in case things change, but it's not looking good for the future of the airplane.
sdckitkat@reddit
Forgive my ignorance, but curious, if they don’t bring the MD-11s back are there other planes you can fly for them? Or are you just SOL?
DoomWad@reddit
Truly sorry for the loss of your colleagues, by the way
OracleofFl@reddit
So, did the schedule simulator sessions for you to keep you current?
Mike__O@reddit
Yes. You still do your regularly scheduled training, and they're bringing guys in as necessary to maintain landing currency.
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
Wondering why UPS continued to fly the MD11 for 72 hours after the crash.
flynryan692@reddit
Not enough was known about the crash to determine there was any risk to continue flying it. As soon as that changed they grounded them.
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
UPS had literal HD video of the failure available to them moments after the crash showing something happening that should never ever happen. You did notice the source of those six screen shots didn't you?
Yet it took the over 72 hours and over 100 MD flights to discover the meaning of....out of an abundance of caution and ground the fleet.
They also had access to the engine with a pylon attached it and obvious indications that the engine didn't catastrophically fail leading to a pylon separation.
Their delay in grounding the MDs is unforgivable. And additionally they obviously did not share the information that they had to them immediately after the crash with FedEx and Western global. I am sure if they had access to what UPS had access to they would have grounded their fleets immediately.
Nobody is talking about this out side of the UPS pilot group and I can't figure it out.
flynryan692@reddit
Having HD video of the crash doesn’t mean they knew enough it to ground the entire fleet. It could’ve been an isolated incident, they weren’t sure yet. I get it, they should’ve grounded them sooner, but they didn’t until they had more information and probably ran it through an SRE which failed.
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
And your answer to my only question?
mduell@reddit
UPS/FedEx: Getting paid to sit at home and not fly the death trap.
WGA: Furloughed.
MikeInPajamas@reddit
I'm not a pilot, but I do like sitting at home. Does UPS/FedEx have any openings?
LootenantTwiddlederp@reddit
They did until this happened. UPS canceled its December class
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
Source?
LootenantTwiddlederp@reddit
A friend of mine was supposed to start in that class and told me, as well as the APC forums.
It was supposed to be a “heavy” only class
More_Than_I_Can_Chew@reddit
Thank you
aka_Handbag@reddit
I thought it was my turn to post this?
PuddlesRex@reddit
Reading this exact question every single day.
wileysegovia@reddit
Driving for Uber
Alive-Sir-4606@reddit
Hopefully getting them in hangars and ripping open the pylons for anticipated inspections
863rays@reddit
Getting paid to stay home
IM_REFUELING@reddit
They're at the Winchester, having a pint, and waiting for this all to blow over.
UNDR08@reddit
This has been asked multiple times. Take a gander at the search function
ReplacementLazy4512@reddit
They’re sitting and waiting to see how it plays out.