C-27J Spartan performing a barrel rolls.
Posted by father_of_twitch@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 122 comments
Posted by father_of_twitch@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 122 comments
Ill-End3169@reddit
Is C-27 a budget C-130 or completely unrelated?
Cloners_Coroner@reddit
It’s related, but I definitely wouldn’t call it the budget version. It has its own unique use case, SOCOM and a lot of European nations keep them around for good reason.
Thaster97@reddit
Considering is designed and built in Italy the logistics for European countries is easier, plus togheter with engines (built in the UK) from the C-130J, it uses the same DASS from the Typhoon
rob189@reddit
We have a fleet of them in Australia too.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
The original Aeritalia G.222 is unrelated, but the C-27J is using the engines, cockpit components and some other systems of the C-130J, so now it's basically 1/2 of a Hercules.
IanCrapReport@reddit
Loadmaster pucker factor up to diamonds.
Swisskommando@reddit
I mean, a Boeing 707 could do it- which is what sealed the deal on them.
Guthix_Wraith@reddit
Is that not an Aileron roll?
Aerobaticdoc@reddit
It’s called a ballistic roll, which is a subset of aileron rolls.
A barrel roll includes enough pitch during the procedure that at the moment of being inverted, the aircraft is facing 90 degrees off from the initial heading.
There are two types of aileron rolls: ballistic rolls and competition rolls. In a competition roll, the goal is to have the aircraft maintain level flight the entire time. This leads to significant control inputs, including quite a bit of negative G forces to maintain the altitude during the inverted portion of the roll. These, as the name imply, are the types done in aerobatic competition and exhibition.
A ballistic roll is when you pitch up (the exact amount of pitch depending on the roll rate and the other flight characteristics of the plane) and then push down until the aircraft is experiencing 0G (aka is on a ballistic trajectory, falling through the sky rather than flying). At this point a full deflection of the ailerons can be done and the aircraft rolled, maintaining zero G the entire time and thus not stressing the airframe. It’s how non-aerobatic aircraft like these can roll. Tex Johnson famously demonstrated it over Seattle in a 707.
Source: I’m a competition aerobatic pilot.
SpacemanFL@reddit
When asked what he was doing Tex said “selling airplanes.”
OldStromer@reddit
I heard it as, I thought I was selling airplanes sir.
OkPractice9203@reddit
Excellent explanation. I had to watch the video again after reading it. You can see each phase. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Allaplgy@reddit
Last year I went to Hokkaido and got a guided backcountry ski trip. Was only mildly jealous of the guide's job. Skis the best snow on earth in an amazingly beautiful place every day for a few months a year.
I have a new source of jealousy. That's a pretty rad job you got there.
Only half serious, I know I can do almost anything I put my mind to. I love planes, flew with my dad as a kid, but I'm probably far too scatterbrained to be a pilot now 🫨
Guthix_Wraith@reddit
Neat. Thanks for sharing.
_5StarMan@reddit
It is
Guthix_Wraith@reddit
Oh good. I thought I remembered star fox getting that wrong back in the day
BonChance123@reddit
Jeez, my knowledge has been saved by a random redditor. How swell.
BonChance123@reddit
Reference for those that may have missed it.
BlackDante@reddit
COCKY LITTLE FREAKS!!
antariusz@reddit
I absolutely missed it. Now do a barrel roll!
Guthix_Wraith@reddit
A man of culture.
BonChance123@reddit
So many playthroughs, I can still recite many of the iconic lines from memory!
DojatokeSC@reddit
BE CAREFUL, ITS A TRAP!
possibly_oblivious@reddit
Star Fox and f zero x while listening to rage against the machine, brings back memories
anactualspacecadet@reddit
No
thekamakaji@reddit
Idk if I've ever actually seen a video of a barrel roll tbh
Guthix_Wraith@reddit
here you go
thekamakaji@reddit
I'm aware. I've just never seen real footage. The video you sent was a sim
Dry-Lie-9593@reddit
Doesn't matter. Now the coffee maker is broke and the wi-fi is out.
RogerRabbit1234@reddit
I knew this would be the first message, when opening the comments.
OptiGuy4u@reddit
I knew that would be a top comment. 😂
Far_Necessary_2687@reddit
Well he does use pitch so in-between an aileron roll and barrel roll.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
Aerobatic Figures by Dr. Guenther Eichhorn
cpav8r@reddit
You definitely need pitch, even in an Extra 300. Source: I’ve done it.
Mr_Harmless@reddit
Same with the Tex II and the 130J. Former IRL, latter in the sim.
dabarak@reddit
I'm pretty sure that's a barrel roll. The axis of the roll is at a point above the fuselage. It the fuselage was the axis of the roll, it would be an aileron roll. In this case, the axis isn't very far above the fuselage, so it's a bit of a weak barrel roll.
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/26173/what-is-the-difference-between-a-barrel-roll-and-an-aileron-roll
KingBobIV@reddit
It pretty clearly isn't a barrel roll. This is just an aileron roll with some pitch changes, which is fine.
A barrel roll is completely different, there's a large heading changes and the aircraft gains and then loses altitude. It's quite noticeably different
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
A roll where the axis nose stays perfectly on the horizon is called a slow roll, depending on the attitude the pilot needs to add rudder, or negative pitch to keep the aircrafts nose steady. A roll flown exclusively with aileron input will lead to the aircraft pitching down, that is why it is started nose high and ends with nose low. Normally this is much less noticeably as most aerobatic aircraft roll a lot faster.
A barrel roll has continuous elevator input during the whole roll, so that positive G is maintained and you can see the elevators are neutral during the roll.
Over_engineered81@reddit
Why does the nose pitch down in this maneuver?
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
Normally you have the aircraft balanced around the wings lift (center of pressure), the center of mass is slightly ahead of the wings, acting with a downwards force, the elevator is far behind the wings also pulling down. Basically a balanced seesaw, wings in the middle with an upwards force, large mass with a short lever ahead pulling down, small force (elevator) with a large lever behind also pulling down.
When flying inverted, the lift force of the wings becomes a downwards force and the downwards force of the elevator becomes lift, the gravity is still pointing downwards though. That means the elevator force and the mass of the aircraft no longer balance out, they work together to pitch the aircraft down.
cpav8r@reddit
Yes
KennyLagerins@reddit
No. Aileron rolls are a spin around one central axis. Pilot needed to change the pitch, so this is a barrel roll.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
Aerobatic Figures by Dr. Guenther Eichhorn
The faster the roll rate, the less of a pitch up is necessary, a roll that is flown as you described is called a slow roll.
sourceholder@reddit
Let the C-27J dream.
Live-Cut137@reddit
Was this at riat?
greenstarthree@reddit
(Z or R twice)
BlackAndStrong666@reddit
Can a c130 do that
Taptrick@reddit
Tex would be proud.
It’s an aileron roll, a straight forward 1-G manoeuvre that technically any aircraft can aerodynamically perform. Pretty neat.
fujimonster@reddit
There is a video of a 707 doing one back when it was in testing stage — it’s probably on YouTube
PoutineBoi@reddit
And that 707 can be seen at Smithsonian's Udvar Hazy Center at Dulles airport!
road_rascal@reddit
I was there a few years ago and it just hurts my brain thinking that size of a plane was actually rolled.
ltcterry@reddit
So, you don't know who "Tex" is as mentioned right above?
Taptrick@reddit
Yeah that’s what I meant by “Tex would be proud” he was the pilot of that Boeing 367-80 (not technically a 707).
wewd@reddit
Legend
jliptty@reddit
Neither the aileron roll nor the barrel roll are 1g maneuvers. The barrel roll is a positive g maneuver. The aileron roll can be too.
Taptrick@reddit
You can technically fly a barrel at 1G but you need good power or keep the nose low. If you go about 45° nose up when crossing through 45° of heading change then I find 3G works best.
The way I think about an aileron roll is that you are kind of ballistic. Pull the nose up like 10-20° then just roll without overthinking it. The slight barrelling should keep you close to 0.5-1G.
jliptty@reddit
You have to change the direction of the aircraft during a barrel roll, therefore it must accelerate, therefore cannot be 1g. Can be close though
Taptrick@reddit
Ah yeah I see what you mean.
jliptty@reddit
It’s semantics 😂
cheetuzz@reddit
I thought the barrel roll was the one that technically any aircraft can perform, and aileron roll was the one that not all aircraft can handle.
Like when Tex barrel rolled the 707.
ltcterry@reddit
Nope.
KennyLagerins@reddit
This is a barrel roll. You can see the aircraft moving from a central axis and the pilot needs to change pitch.
Taptrick@reddit
Barrel roll is normally a wide manoeuvre with much more amplitude and higher G. This is an aileron roll. Even tighter would be a point roll also known as a 0G roll.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
The pitch changes by itself due to loss of lift, that is what happens in an aileron roll.
KennyLagerins@reddit
He pitches into it to start the maneuver.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
Yes, that is normal for an aileron roll, otherwise they would finish the maneuver very nose low.
pilotak214@reddit
Wrong
HornetGaming110@reddit
excluding at least the C-5, C-17, and B-52
Wide-Balance5893@reddit
To be fair, some transports have TTPs for "defensive" maneuvering in combination with countermeasures or electronic defensive capes. Also some are being tested w/ offensive capes for defensive purposes. Now imagine this aircraft yeeting off a missile mid barrel roll...
Silver-Bee-3979@reddit
Yeah, man- AWACS with amraams in a BVR fight would be a monster.
BonChance123@reddit
I'll try rolling, that's a good trick!
ER_Support_Plant17@reddit
“I know some maneuvers”
weissss@reddit
You just listed lazily to the left….
rxmp4ge@reddit
EFlite EC-1500 performing scale maneuvers.
ltcterry@reddit
It's not a barrel roll.
Why do so many people think a basic roll is a barrel roll? Are they the same ones talking about "loop the loop?"
R5Jockey@reddit
Because that’s the term most people know/have heard. Most people have never heard of slow rolls, aileron rolls, point rolls.
Photo_Jedi@reddit
I'm watching this knowing it is awesome. But also imagining the crew chief bouncing around the back of the aircraft. Possible throwing up, or with a big grin. Could go either way.
jedensuscg@reddit
The C27J has a jump seat just behind the pilots with a full 6 point harness. Not sure if it will hold up going inverted, but I can attest personally it is not very comfortable and your elbows will probably slam into the avionics a foot on either side of you.
Familiar_Fee_7891@reddit
There are more C-27J's parked at David Monthan AFB than flying in the USA. Sad really.
jedensuscg@reddit
The US Coast Guard is now the largest flier of these in the US (The army has a few for special forces) but we will be retiring them in a few years as well so they will be back in the bone yard (where we pulled them from several years ago)
jedensuscg@reddit
For anyone interested, the RR AE2100D2 in the C27 had an accumulator allowing for approx. 18 seconds of negative G maneuvers without risking the oil being starved of oil.
The version of the same engine on most 130J's (AE2100D3) does not have that accumulator.
benevolentmalefactor@reddit
This makes your load master very upset.
Reasonable_Sense9096@reddit
Damn
rtaylorcole@reddit
It’s so cool to see a huge plane like that do a barrel roll.
jbm1957@reddit
Imagine! You've just poured yourself a coffee, and the pilot says, "Hey! Watch this!"
Tenzipper@reddit
imagine the pilot pouring the cup while doing this.
fazzah@reddit
i want to see all the memes of shit flying around in the cargo hold
LostPilot517@reddit
It is an aileron roll, a 1G maneuver done correctly, everyone stays exactly where they are, and you can continue to sip on your coffee.
fazzah@reddit
Yes I know, hence memes and not real footage.
Still, seeing it from the outside knowing that inside relatively nothing happens is wild.
Physics you scary
brandnewbanana@reddit
Including Airmen not knowing what the hell is going on
LockPickingPilot@reddit
For the life of me. I don’t know why the spartan was not a successful aircraft.
EagleZR@reddit
It's anecdotal, but I heard one big issue is that it's basically a mini-C-130 competing with cheaper, bigger, more capable, albeit older and used, C-130s
ExplosivePancake9@reddit
Not really a mini C-130, as its not based on it and never tried to be, it always competed with stuff like the Fairchild C-123 and Transall C-160
It always was a simple, rugged, short take off medium lifter, it cannot compete with C-130.
HugeMcRunFast@reddit
OP needs terminology lessons
MoltoPesante@reddit
I hope the load was well secured!!
LorenzoAllievi@reddit
Long live Sky King
UniqueIndividual3579@reddit
And years worth of crap comes out of every crevice.
Vestat1@reddit
Why are the flaps not flapping?
mydogismental@reddit
Seen these doing their thing at RIAT for the last couple years. Always grabs my attention. Something about seeing a pretty chonky boi throwing itself around like that really puts a smile on my face.
Drenlin@reddit
They aren't as chonky as they look though. They weigh about as much as a large fighter.
IM_REFUELING@reddit
Not a barrel roll.
El_Mnopo@reddit
Goodnight, Sky King.
CyberSoldat21@reddit
this is your captain speaking uhhhhhh we’re going to do something cool here
_WhiteGoodman_@reddit
Sky King, is that you?
meshreplacer@reddit
I remember a Pilot that tried that with a B-52
Beni_Stingray@reddit
Sky-King would be proud.
PhaceN52@reddit
Fly high sky king
Toesinthesand2024@reddit
Talent! Now let’s see a C-5A do the same.
ezekiel920@reddit
That wing loading looks intense.
AlphaThree@reddit
LMT pilot put a C-130J through a full loop at air show in 2018
cosp85classic@reddit
They always told you to build our cargo pallets to hold everything in place in all three dimensions. But I don't think that's what load toads had this in mind.
Conscious_Quality803@reddit
That's genuinely impressive.
And I'm thinking back to the one time I got to ride in the back of one, seated on the floor, and that terrified me a little.
n3rdsm4sh3r@reddit
When I was a little kid on my first commercial flight, I asked my mom when they'd start doing barrel rolls and loop de loops. I was all kinds of annoyed when she told me that wasn't something they did.
NotCook59@reddit
Hold my beer!
rockstuffs@reddit
Reminds me of sky king
Gullible_Shart@reddit
Multiple rolls
blatantdanno@reddit
Fantastic video! Kept it in frame the entire time not the ground or the clouds.
streetlegalb17@reddit
Sheeeeeesh
Wish I was in there
Night_Chicken@reddit
Imagine being seated Indian style on the cargo deck when it hits.
Logical-Let-2386@reddit
Thing like this are why wing designers drink heavily.
Super_boredom138@reddit
Look at that RC plane chuckin around
zaralesliewalker@reddit
Whoa, A cargo hauler pulling off barrel rolls like it's auditioning for Top Gun? That's the kind of Spartan flex we need more of