I just rewatched Star Trek: Generations for the first time in YEARS. Fantastic movie at the time in the theater. a "good" movie now.
Posted by Even_Disaster_8002@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 70 comments
So I'm currently doing a rewatch of TNG basically season 3 - 7, then Generations and First Contact, and planning to finish off with Picard Season 3. I don't think I've watched Generations in full in probably years, so it was great to experience it again. In between then and now, I've watched lots of commentary about Generations, particularly the Plinkett review. And I think I have my own opinion about the movie now. Probably similar to a lot that has been beaten to death, but I think there's a lot of great things, and just a lot of stuff that had some really good potential. But at the same time, for what we got in 1994, and just remembering the hype to seeing the TNG cast again since the finale, my 11 year old self was pretty much in the nexus. haha.
The space visuals look fantastic, along with the music score. I would say the Generations music theme isn't very strong, definitely not as much as First Contact, but the music cues are pretty great.
Malcom McDdowell does a fantastic job as Soren.
I also REALLY like the theme of the nexus, which I basically interpret as the ultimate form of escapism.
Though I do really think the film was ultimately tied down to the need to have Kirk and Picard do something together. Had it just been the TNG crew working to stop Soren, I think it would have had a much more interesting conclusion. This is coming from 42 year old me, not 11 year old me. haha.
Again watching this now, I do think the Data emotion chip subplot was a bit much, and I could have done without it. I think perhaps if there was a way to link it to the main plot of the nexus, it would have become more interesting. Though the data "oh shit" moment had me roaring in the theater as a kid.
So not to get too long with this, it was definitely an interesting and unique watch. I think I enjoyed it more thinking about the memories I had as a kid watching it more than the movie itself. Not to say it wasn't enjoyable. It was definitely "good".
Falafel-Wrapper@reddit
For me personally, it will always be the first tng movie. It can be bad, it can be silly, it can not make sense.
But it will always be the first movie for tng.
When I was home sick, I would always watch the motion picture through to the undiscovered country.
But then, one day when I was sick... there it was. Generations...
Even_Disaster_8002@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I did a deep dive on the production on Generations since posting this. Sounds like it was hell. Moore and Braga wrote this WHILE writing All Good Things and managing scripts for season 7. No wonder why Season 7 and Generations suffered so much, and All Good Things is nothing short of a production miracle.
Remarkable-Pin-8352@reddit
I liked it at the time, today the stupidity of it bothers me too much.
I can't get over how nobody involved with this movie seemed to understand the speed of light with regards to seeing a sun instantly go out, how they wrote Picard being able to travel to any point in time after hearing of his family burning to death and then not saving his family and of course the absolute nadir of nonsense, the Enterprise-D getting destroyed by a Klingon garbage scow.
Asleep_Touch_8824@reddit
All good points, and let's take a moment to recall the emotion chip as well.
Battle_of_BoogerHill@reddit
Better than those reused bird of prey shots.
Oh, and thay plasma coil tomfoolery .
Goddamn plasma coils.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
If it isn't plasma coils, it's plasma conduits.
Even_Disaster_8002@reddit (OP)
Yeah in reality the Enterprise could have returned fire and basically pummeled that Bird of Prey, but it wouldn't have been as exciting as them "doing a thing".
Remarkable-Pin-8352@reddit
A result of writers pandering to the desires of the actors (in this case Brent Spiner wanting more range) than for the sake of a cohesive plot.
It's something that'd infect all of the TNG movies to one extent or another.
Flimsy-Blackberry-67@reddit
Dune buggies in Nemesis omg
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Let's start with 12 seconds for a surface-launched rocket to hit a system primary. Let's estimate that Veridian 3 is roughly 1 AU from its sun, same as Earth. That's about 8 light-minutes. If we're going by the cubed warp factor, that means the rocket was moving Warp 3.42, about 40 times the speed of light. That would have caused a nuclear blast at the launch site.
Triad64@reddit
It would have been great to have Picard motivated to save his family from the fire, and for Kirk to convince him otherwise. Like maybe he does save his family, but he's not there in time to command the Enterprise to save Veridian III, and he tries multiple times- only for Kirk to tell him to "Let it go" and make the right choice.
Of course all that logic goes out the window, when he could simply have gone back even farther to prevent both incidents..
Going anywhere anytime is really too powerful an option. They should have made a small window before or after being sucked in by the nexus as the only possible exit point.
VanDammes4headCyst@reddit
Holy shit. I'm angry that this isn't what we got!
Here's another one for you: Imagine if Captain Sisko had been on the Defiant in First Contact, and the subsequent theme of Sisko "letting go" and dealing with Picard's involvement in his wife's death, and then Sisko consequently confronting Picard in the Ready Room: "Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!"
Makes me angry we didn't get this too.
tomalakk@reddit
Well of course they can see the sun going out instantly. Look how fast Soran's rocket hit the sun! It must be positioned inside the atmosphere!
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
Also, if he could trael to any point any time, how about when he met Sauron in 10 Forward? Just go back then/there and be all Worf, put this guy in the brig and if he gets hurt on the way so be it."
ChiGorilla1127@reddit
It's well known the parts for Chekov and Scotty were written for Spock and McCoy. Insurance wouldn't cover Deforest Kelly and Leonard Nimoy said the lines were poorly written and could have been acted by any character.
Darmok47@reddit
Its why Chekov goes to sickbay and why Kirk's lines to Scotty seem mean spirited.
DavScoMur02020@reddit
I seem to remember Nimoy saying, “I refuse to stand in the back and wave,” about appearing in this movie.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
Nimoy wasn't wrong. Say what you want about 2009 Trek, it's half decently written.
furrykef@reddit
You really want to wait several minutes to see if the sun exploded or not?
Remarkable-Pin-8352@reddit
I'd come up with a better plot than Picard sees the sun explode in the desert.
furrykef@reddit
The film was indeed in desperate need of a better plot, but the time it takes for the sun to explode hardly factors into my problems with it.
Remarkable-Pin-8352@reddit
Everything adds up.
Yes, Star Trek has a lot of made up science, but it at least *pretends* to take it seriously.
This was a detail that most average people know about, almost on the level of stupidity as "lol cold fusion freezes things lol" in Into Darkness.
Spider-man2098@reddit
“They say time is the fire in which we burn.”
Absolute ice-cold line delivery. Rest of the movie can go in the bin.
VanDammes4headCyst@reddit
I really like that line and delivery. Though, I think there are some other good points too. I enjoyed the SS Enterprise scene on the holodeck. Great concept. The Enterprise-B design. I liked the music a lot.
zoidbert@reddit
They should have shelved the "Yesterday's ENTERPRISE" episode story (loved that episode though I did) and made that as GENERATIONS, and I will die on this hill.
VanDammes4headCyst@reddit
Hell, maybe do it in reverse. Enterprise-D gets sent back in time or something, through the Nexus, and accidentally disrupts the Khitomer conference in STVI.
LV426acheron@reddit
There was a lot of stuff that worked in the movie but overall the story was kind of meh.
Picard and Kirk meet up, cook some eggs and then punch an old man in the face. Seems like they could've come up with something better.
TrainResponsible9714@reddit
On the plus side I learned dill with eggs is a thing
tomalakk@reddit
I remember when I'd watch the german version and they took oregano instead of dill…
Darmok47@reddit
My favorite part is that Picard originally wanted Guinan to help him fight Malcolm McDowell.
Would have loved to have seen that version...
Triad64@reddit
Why didn't they just get everyone from the Lakul to help them fight Soran? Strength in numbers..
Imagine seeing everyone's fantasy and convincing them to ignore it and face death together lol. Kirk could have given an inspiring speech.
Even_Disaster_8002@reddit (OP)
I think for this particular story, they should have just left Kirk out. If they really wanted to do a thing with him, there should have been some way to have a story with him sitting in the chair of the Enterprise-D.
Maybe instead of Picard and Kirk going back to the planet, they go back to where Picard meets Soren in 10 forward, some kinda hell breaks lose, klingons, yadda yadda, Kirk sits in the Enterprise-D chair and gives a command to Worf (makes a funny remark about a klingon officer), the day is saved. Kirk rides off into the sunset (again) on a shuttlecraft.
tomalakk@reddit
Generations has its moments. But its a bit sloppy in the writing. The overall theme of Picard's legacy (and death of brother and nephew) is not woven in very well in the overall plot. The Nexus seems ill-defined with Guinan proclaiming once you're in you'll never want to leave again. Turns put the Nexus didn’t show Picard exactly what he wanted because he looks at a Christmas ball, shrugs and moves on. Picard's solution to the Soran problem was also very strange. Not only did he fail to go back to a point in time when they could’ve easily apprehend Soran — no: his plan was to take an elderly Kirk to beat him up? I wish Picard had found an elegant solution — just like we know him! Furthermore, Data's quest for humanity has let him to experience emotions now. And how does the film handle this? Jokes? The film has a lot of good moments and that TNG feeling but also we have to witness the birth of the more action-prone "movie Picard".
Cautious-Tailor97@reddit
Always has me thinking of how ape shit everyone went when Data pushed Crusher into the water, but watching it later on video its that crazy slow motion. Often wish it had no slow motion.
ExpectedBehaviour@reddit
The crash of the Enterprise-D is a triumph of practical effects work – a giant 12-foot model of it was built for the close-up detail required.
On the other hand... the Enterprise-D is the ship in the whole of Star Trek with the most screen time, and the last Enterprise Gene Roddenberry signed off on, and she'd never looked better than she did here. She deserved much better than being sucker-punched by a geriatric Klingon ship while everyone onboard forgets how to do their jobs (Riker to command, Worf to fire weapons, Geordi to eject the warp core etc), just because the production team wanted a prettier "sports car" ship for the next movie.
Desperate_Hyena_4398@reddit
“Oh my”
viewtifulblue@reddit
I think the darker lighting helped give it a more "movie" feel. My main gripe is that they are able to "leave" the Nexus when you aren't able to. Picard can go "anywhere he wants", but the dudes still "anywhere he wants" in the dang Nexus. Anything that came out after Generations that involves Picard happened inside the Nexus.
iambeingblair@reddit
There's nothing in the movie to suggest this.
viewtifulblue@reddit
There's nothing to suggest that they can leave either.
iambeingblair@reddit
There is, you see them see do it. It happens on screen. Nowhere is it implied that they haven't left.
Designer-Head9777@reddit
You can go anywhere and anytime in the nexus, as Guinan explains. Where is it explicitly shown they ever leave the Nexis?
mgoetzke76@reddit
Soren did right in the beginning
viewtifulblue@reddit
But how do you know they left, if you can go anywhere and do anything then that could include a simulation of the star and solar system you want to save. We don't see them leave, we see a flash of light and then a different scene.
iambeingblair@reddit
In this scenario, Picard would have to imagine/fantasize about the Enterprise crash landing in exactly the way it did before he entered the Nexus. The last he saw of it, it was in space near an outclassed Klingon ship. At the end of the movie, he and Riker are rummaging on the bridge before beaming up. How would he know it had crashed? Why in the paradise of the Nexus would he imagine it crashed? Our only source of truth for anything about the Nexus is Guinan and she says you can leave. Out of universe, Picard still being in the Nexus doesn't add anything. You might as well say he's still actually in the Moriarty holodeck simulation.
Even_Disaster_8002@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's the biggest signal that he's out of the nexus. The fact that Enterprise crashes.
viewtifulblue@reddit
Picard was so jazzed about saving the day he just set up the scene. He didn't have to think it would crash, that just happened as part of the greater world he created. It's Picard's fantasy too because he goes from calm and diplomatic to action star for the next 3 movies(simulations).
dplafoll@reddit
They just want PIC to not be “real” (in-universe) or canon (IRL).
Leopold_Darkworth@reddit
The photography was excellent. Especially when they're parked next to the Amargosa star and the light comes flooding in through the windows, you think, oh, yeah, that's how that should have worked the whole time.
Darmok47@reddit
I loved the starlight coming in through the windows. Felt very cinematic.
viewtifulblue@reddit
Yep, it really felt like a step up and a fitting end cap for TNG. First Contact feels so different like a start of a new series almost (probably because they are still in the Nexus).
DJ_Mimosa@reddit
I loved this movie when it came out because I was such a Trekkie fanboy and was just pumped TNG was getting a movie. It still holds up well today, but an older version of me definitely has some critiques.
I think the concept is awesome, and super-original - the Nexus, tying in El-Aurians, a star-destroying madman trying to get to his heaven - but execution is medicore, and ultimately devolved into lazy convenient scripting.
Hi and low-lights for me:
Loved the intro with the Enterprise B. It was intense af, beautiful to watch, and seemed like a decent send-off to an aging Kirk.
The scene where a grieving Picard is interrupted by an imploding star is awesome, as is that entire sequence.
The Data subplot is so, so, so bad. I swear anytime something is overtly done for fanboys it turns out awful. Brent Spiner almost completely undid 7 years of magnificent acting with whatever the hell he was trying to do there.
The final Klingon battle at the end was a complete carbon copy of the final battle in Undiscovered Country, to the point they actually recycled the visuals of the exploding ship I believe? That being said, I liked it. It sort of came out of nowhere, and the destruction of Enterprise D was well done I thought. The crash landing was a great scene.
Once they got into the Nexus, it became clear it was just whatever magical plot device they could imagine to tie together the broken strings of the script. Guinan is somehow in there? Sure. They could just exit to whatever point in time they want on a whim? Sure. And they chose that point in time, when they were vulnerable and stranded? Why not just go back to before Soran even arrived at the planet and destroy his missle launcher then ambush him? Why not go back a year and prevent everything from happening?
Anyway, it's probably my second favourite TNG movie after First Contact.
SumKallMeTIM@reddit
Agreed lol
porntrek_86@reddit
Five and Generations grow on you as you age and see what the writers and directors were grappling with.
zoidbert@reddit
Five (assuming you're talking about The Final Frontier) has a great novelization, and you can replace all the F/X in your head as you're reading it.
afriendincanada@reddit
The evacuation and crash of the Enterprise is an incredible piece of filmmaking.
I saw it opening night and when that scene ended (in absolute silence) it got an enormous round of applause
ChiGorilla1127@reddit
I really enjoyed Generations as a kid, but feel the emotional elements have much more depth now that I am adult.
Yes the Data subplot was weak, but I believe that was somewhat forced on the writers so that there was comic relief.
Kirki and Picard were somewhat forced together, again studio wanted to bring the characters together. I enjoyed the connection even if it could be nitpicked.
I thought the Nexus and Sauron were great Trek elements and villains. I thought destruction of the Enterprise was really well done. Very reasonable explanation for losing the ship to a Bird of Prey.
Movie was so beautifully shot. Models just have a realer feel then CGI ships.
The intro with the Enterprise B is excellent.
Main qualm is you don't get a lot from the Enterprise crew, but that's an issue with all the movies honestly. First contact probably was the best with giving everybody something to work with.
Also the Kirk and Picard, it could have been more impactful, more drawn out.
Generations still one of my favorite Star Trek movies though.
OscarDivine@reddit
Didn’t we all love it when Data said “Ohhh shittt!” …. Didn’t we? DIDN’T WE??? didn’t we…. We didn’t
happydude7422@reddit
i liked that when the chips are down kirk even though hes depressed and feels like he has no more fight in him when the chips are down he still manages to get back on that saddle to save the galaxy one more time.
Express-Train2486@reddit
Generations would have been better if it were written as a one season series.
The original series crew for 12 episodes.
The Next Generation crew for 12 episodes.
They needed time and space to have all of the characters and situations develop properly.
JugOfVoodoo@reddit
I'm jealous. I'm also 42 but the only TNG movie I got to see in a theater was Nemesis.
One thing about Generations that I've changed my mind about over time is the Duras Sisters. When I was a kid I thought it was a cop-out ending for them. Now I think it's a near-perfect finale. The only things missing are an acknowledgement of their connection to Worf and an update on Lursa's unborn son from "Firstborn".
furrykef@reddit
I actually didn't understand it as a kid. "Mommy, why did everyone laugh when Data said a bad word?" Yeah, I actually asked that. Don't worry, I get it now.
HRslammR@reddit
To me the Kirk and Picard scenes were pretty great. Kirk was always the swashbuckling action captain and Picard the stoic eternal leader. Seeing the interaction and mutual admiration between the characters was great. Especially the "you can make a difference" speech.
Also a decent send off for Kirk to always face death with a well, "brave new worlds" moment.
Final-Fun8500@reddit
I like it more than I used to. It felt forced back then, but now I appreciate having those two on screen together. I have a deeper appreciation now for all the TOS and TNG films. A golden era, even if the was unmet potential.
Used-Gas-6525@reddit
Plinkett has a lot to say about this film long before he tackled The Phantom Menace. I agree with about 85% of what he says.
stlfwd@reddit
Kirk deserved better then being shoddily buried underneath a pile of rocks
Whole_Maybe5914@reddit
I thought Generations was riveting when I was little. I was sad over >!Kirk's death!<. Also it had my second favourite space battle + the Enterprise D's saucer separation and crash, which as a 5 year old I thought was more awesome than sombre. The whole nexus thing went over my head.
Watching it years later, I still think it holds up. Now I understand the Nexus after grief and bereavement; you will have dreams that are pretty much the Nexus in that you've reunited with the person you love but then at some point you realise "this isn't real". I do think that Soren was underdeveloped, although I don't know any big literary words to explain why. I also think the "moral" regarding the fantasy of the Nexus was lost on the audience, as the people I've subjected the film to mostly say that they would try and get into the Nexus, too!
I am forever grateful to this film for also showing my beloved, the Enterprise B. They gave the Excelsior class hips!
Flimsy-Blackberry-67@reddit
So funny, I feel like I had the opposite trajectory!
I was 13 when it came out and was dissatisfied by the finale (suspect nothing would have been good enough for me at the time because I was devastated it was ending) and by Generations (likely same).
But as an adult, I have come to feel the finale is one of the best there is, and that Generations was way, way better than I remembered. (As in, doesn't deserve to be evidence for the "odd numbered Star Trek films are bad" argument).
Growing up with TNG I was exhausted by the focus on Data (I still go around and say "Data, Data, Data!" a la Jan from Brady Bunch complaining about Marcia https://youtu.be/TxfdliE2PTU?si=b0IICrUfWK0lv2a4) and I thought all the jokey stuff he did in Generations was, as my kids say nowadays, "so cringe".
Now I can appreciate as a film they wanted some comic moments and the lifeforms song and their PG-earning, "oh shit!" comments were there for that and for the normies in the theatre.
kaiser_mcbear@reddit
I never really liked it that much when it came out.
My views have evolved since then. I find it quite well done for what they had to work with (budget and time-frames).
Educational-Try-1496@reddit
I always thought it was one of the weaker films, it is Star Trek though, so I’ll watch it, not sure about all the new Trek though, a lot of the movies feel a lot less mind blowing and cool and a lot more pew pew Mortal Kombat.
ChaosVania@reddit
You might enjoy the “Star Trek Generations Retrospective” review on YouTube. That whole video series is good.