More UPS 2976 Footage Released
Posted by Shoddy_Act7059@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 130 comments
More footage from the UPS plane crash in Kentucky has been released by Louisville Airport.
Unfortunatly, it's not of the angle that you're thinking of; not even sure if we'll get it released. But we did some new ones, at least, even if they may not be the best. Here are the ones that, I think, show the best footage.
All these and more can found in an article that WDRB posted to their website. Link below:
I will say, the second angle of the plane going over the road, especially when viewed in full on the news article link, even if the plane is somewhat cut off the screen a bit, kinda shows how dire the situation was.
This angle is also where this photo is from. I do apologize if it comes across as a little unflattering.
AdCareless1761@reddit
You can see the engine almost looks like it ejects straight upwards on #3
mattrussell2319@reddit
Juan Browne explains that this is expected from gyroscopic precession. It went up and over to the right so that’s why it was found on the opposite side of the runway. Rotation is when the forces are strongest in this direction so when the pylon detaches that’s where it goes
thedude18951@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_2976#/media/File%3AUPS2976_Left_Engine_Separation_Stills.png
eruditeimbecile@reddit
Has this video been released yet?
thedude18951@reddit
Not as far as I know
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it's not quite as scary as Angle 2 IMO, but it's definitely uneasy to watch.
Disastrous_Ad5969@reddit
Scary thing is that the Ford plant is at the end of the parallel runway. I thought it was further away. Could have been an even worse disaster.
slpater@reddit
The wing(i think) clipped the roof of a ups facility. As horrible as it is to say things went about as well as they could have all things considered
Thequiet01@reddit
Landing gear, per the preliminary report
gravyisjazzy@reddit
I've thought the same thing about it. It killed 14 people and has put many more out of work, but had it been taking off from 17R or to any other direction it would have been significantly worse. Taking off to the north from either one would have set them down on top of preston highway of UofL's campus, from 17R would have put them on top of Ford LAP, 29 would have put them on one of the most congested parts of 264 at rush hour, and 11 in neighborhoods east of the airport. All told, could have been much worse.
Taptrick@reddit
Another UPS MD-11 taxiing back as the crash happened. Damn.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I noticed that, too. Rather eerie.
MapleMapleHockeyStk@reddit
Its also f ing stupid they can't even get grief counseling about it
Thequiet01@reddit
They can’t?
gcalfred7@reddit
Just saw that all MD 11s are being grounded which really wouldn’t make that big of a deal unless you’re in the horse world like me. All of FedEx’s fleet in their horse transport division and yes, they have a horse transport division use MD 11s.
G25777K@reddit
I've seen pictures were they have found more cracks on other MD-11s, I will leave it that.
gcalfred7@reddit
Well, there is always Tex Sutton Equine Air Transportation with “Air Horse One,” which is a 727.
http://texsutton.com/AboutUs/Aircraft.aspx
KfirGuy@reddit
Sadly their 727 hasn’t flown since 2021 - they just charter space on FedEx birds:
https://paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/fedex-suspends-horse-flights-through-january
gcalfred7@reddit
ooof! European carriers move in? KLM and Emirates have equine divisions.
mrtucey@reddit
I think they use 777s.
cosmicrae@reddit
Tail number N725CK
AdultContemporaneous@reddit
Do you think this will be the nail in the coffin for this type in the US?
G25777K@reddit
It's all going to come down to economics, you have 40-50 that were flying worldwide, most of them are with FEDEX and UPS and WGA.
Boeing are going to have to decide if they want to support a small fleet, they many find other concerns along the way and if the repetitive inspections and parts/replacements become to costly
It's too early to tell, NTSB have to their work first and see what comes of that, but however you want look at it, it's going to be a while.
slpater@reddit
Boeing will continue to support the type for a decent bit so long as the carriers keep flying them. The tooling and such needed to support the aircraft is already paid for so its not a huge expense at this point. If like 10 were still flying maybe not.
But tbh I would be surprised if its more than even 9 months. We know WHAT failed at this point. We dont know WHY for sure yet. The obvious thing is regardless of when it was last done have every MD-11 engine removed and new pins installed. You then have a few months to do the metallurgy and find out what factors are leading to the failures. Hell if im UPS or FEDEX im probably pre-emptively taking engines off at the very least
mrtucey@reddit
The tooling to make the parts needed may not exist anymore. Most likely the tooling was scraped after they stopped production so they wouldn't have to pay for storage and upkeep of the tools, or inventor taxes on them.
Most likely they'll look at the ones already retired and take the needed lugs off them if they pass inspections, and they'll be well inspected after this.
Both FedEx and UPS had already announced plans to retire their MD-11s in the next ten years (FedEx said by 2028), this will probably speed it up.
snakebite75@reddit
Yup, it all comes down to $$. Is it more cost effective to repair and maintain the current fleet or to replace the fleet. It will depend on what the fix is and what it will take to maintain things afterwards.
slpater@reddit
Remember as well you can't just go replace the fleet tomorrow. Boeing can't ramp production up more than they've already tried to. So its the money lost grounding the fleet until new planes arrive, vs the cost of repairing the fleet and flying them until you have their replacements ready.
snakebite75@reddit
Absolutely, Boeing isn't a car lot, you can't just go buy them off a lot.
Eeebs-HI@reddit
Now there's dozens of pilots grounded as well. They will need to be certified for other aircraft types or perhaps choose retirement. In the meantime they will have to be paid a guaranteed amount.
slpater@reddit
Id be shocked if there's less than 10 pilots per aircraft grounded. UPS/FEDEX are probably weighing the cost between leaving them on guarantee, furlough, or getting them typed in other AC.
bschultzy@reddit
That makes sense given FedEx cancelling all MD flights through December.
Snck_Pck@reddit
This must be such an uneasy feeling to pilots who fly these planes when they learn the plane they’re in has cracks etc and it’s on more than just 1 of that plane
gravyisjazzy@reddit
I really feel bad for the guys that flew them Wednesday and Thursday before they got grounded. I bet that was an uneasy feeling stepping into the cockpit so soon after, even more so with the findings listed in the preliminary report.
slpater@reddit
Id imagine it might be sooner than you'd think. They'll probably require removing the engines and putting new bolts for the engines to mount to the pylons regardless of how long its been so they can test and see what condition they're all in.
The_Vat@reddit
Not hugely surprising - it's been curiously quiet since the grounding was announced, which did not feel like "it's all fine' was going to be announced.
MrNewking@reddit
You have a link to this? I haven't seen this come up yet.
G25777K@reddit
No link with this one, it's what I have seen with eyes. I won't post it since I have not seen it anywhere and I don't want to be the one to put it out on the internet and in respect to the 3 pilots.
And let the NTSB do their job.
SwimmingThroughHoney@reddit
Are these public pictures or just a random anecdote?
Southern-Usual4211@reddit
Also huge impact on the Airborne firefighting world as well. The DC-10s are a common aircraft in firebombers
the4ner@reddit
Are there any sort of decreased maintenance/check intervals for firefighting planes given the stress they go through?
SkiingAway@reddit
This isn't an answer to your question, but unlike a lot of the firefighting aircraft the DC-10s are still way under their max takeoff weights when "fully loaded" for a drop.
So I'm not sure they're pushing the stress envelope as hard as many of the other aircraft that have been used for the task are. (besides the frequent takeoff/landing cycles but I think that's a consideration in maintenance/inspection intervals anyway)
the4ner@reddit
useful info - I would not have expected that! I suppose the complexities of carrying a bunch of liquid mean that the overall capacity is lowered somewhat.
SkiingAway@reddit
I think it's largely that it's a plane that was built for a 4000mi+ range that's being used on (typically) very short flights. That's a pretty drastic difference in fuel load.
And I'm not sure if you've seen a picture of the firefighting conversion ones, but seems like the biggest belly tank you could realistically fit on the underside of the aircraft. I don't think they're actually holding liquid in the passenger cabin/interior of the aircraft at all.
But I'm no expert, either.
BGSO@reddit
I imagine the interval is longer because no people.
YABOI69420GANG@reddit
I thought people were fucking with me when I found out about horse flights. We sell most of our hay to Japanese racing teams and I asked how there's so much demand for horse races in just the island of Japan and was told they travel the world competing. Took a few years to fully believe it.
gcalfred7@reddit
hay sales to Japan? wow….
YABOI69420GANG@reddit
Japan, S Korea, Florida and UAE buy all the premium hay. Our stuff gets loaded directly into shipping containers for overseas or dry vans for Florida in the field. "Domestic market" is like a curse word for shit hay that no one outside of the us wants.
gcalfred7@reddit
Can I ask how much per bale?
YABOI69420GANG@reddit
I'm honestly not sure. I think it's like anywhere between $10-$30 for a 95 lb bale depending on the grade. I just keep the machines alive and running, boss sells it. I just hear the bitching if it's lower grade.
nomnomsquirrel@reddit
I think FedEx uses three types of planes for horses (I've seen other planes used), but they've grounded all horse flights until January anyway.
saviraven911@reddit
Have they stopped the flights because if the disease outbreak?
nomnomsquirrel@reddit
Possibly because they have lost 20+ planes from the fleet during their busiest time of the year and horses are being de-prioritized until after Christmas.
saviraven911@reddit
Ah, got it. Strange timing with disease hitting western eventing hard. This will hit the other industries. Not a good end of the year for horse sports.
MapleMapleHockeyStk@reddit
OK, I've not been on the horse threads in a looking while, what is going on? I dont even know what to Google?
saviraven911@reddit
An outbreak of a dangerous strain of the Equine Herpes Virus cropped up at a western event in Texas and is spreading. I am not sure exactly the number, but I know there have already been horse deaths.
galaxyk8@reddit
No pony for Christmas :((
nomnomsquirrel@reddit
Why won't FedEx please think of the rich children who want a dressage pony under the 20 foot tree beside their Hermes school bag?!
ConsumeFudge@reddit
Could always just follow the emirati example and land your personal 747 in Lexington to pick up your horses, and pay the per day fine..../s
AgentOrange-12@reddit
I would like to subscribe to fedex horse division facts please
deejmeister@reddit
Fedex can haul horses on 3 different airframes, but they paused horse transport until January due to holiday volume. Not all of their horse division is MD-11's. My wife, who's also an equestrian, was asking me about it so I looked it uo
Dave_A480@reddit
Today I learned... You can FedEx a horse....
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Just some comments:
Angle #2, I think, is probably the scariest. Seeing this huge plane, even if the camera doesn't entirely capture, fly over the road like that and blowing the trees around (and potentially snapping tops of a few of them) show how dire the situation really was.
Also, Angle #3 shows the smoke trail the left engine produced as it detached from the plane.
randytc18@reddit
30sec is quick. Arff is top notch. They don't just hang out in the trucks waiting for an accident. They're training, cleaning, eating, whatever. But when the bell rings they're quick. I was at my dad's station when a t38 called for equipment while coming in. I've never seen my dad that run quick.
13jlin@reddit
I am surprised at what Louisville has as arff equipment though - I'm surprised they're only Index C. I realize the standard is driven by passenger operations, but when an airport has as much widebody cargo activity as SDF? It wouldn't have mattered in this case, but if all they can run to a crash is 2 crash trucks (without HRETs) and a mini pumper, It seems a little paltry.
encyclopedist@reddit
Could they have multiple fire stations? I know, for example, that there is a separate fire station for a remote Polderbaan runway at Schiphol.
13jlin@reddit
As far as the FAA map shows, SDF has only the one midfield ARFF station (the FAA regulated civilian department) - the ANG fire station is separate, but afaik is notionally there to protect the AF operations, but there may well be a MOU or something that allows SDF to count the AF department towards their staffing/response.
SkiingAway@reddit
Yes (/u/13jlin - you're probably also a little interested) - the Kentucky ANG base side of the airport has it's own fire station operated by the ANG.
Based on this press release about their response to the incident they also have a decent amount of equipment and were on duty + responded: https://www.123aw.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/4328587/kentucky-national-guard-responds-to-fatal-civilian-plane-crash/
No idea if they're on duty all the time and can be counted on as part of the typical response when the airport is operating or if they're only operational when the ANG is doing ops and it was just fortunate that they were available and could help.
Less credible since it's unsourced, but a purported list of equipment at both that does at least match up with some of the vehicles seen in various pics/videos of the response:
https://fire.fandom.com/wiki/123rd_Airlift_Wing_Fire_Department
https://fire.fandom.com/wiki/Louisville_Muhammad_Ali_International_Airport_Fire_Rescue
13jlin@reddit
Ill preface by saying that I have no particular familiarity with firefighting, airport firefighting or the civil/military relationship that governs shared use airports, but my understanding is that the FAA regulated department (SDF Airport Fire Rescue) is responsible for all airside fire rescue - the mil side here is is notionally only responsible for the military facilities and operations, but probably respond as wither best practice or have a MOU for mutual aid?
Idk, so I'm just going to have to profess unfamiliarity. EVen so their press release shows that the ANG is at most running one additional crash truck, still without a HRET... its still fairly lightweight compared to what major hub airports can run.
Crafty_Original_7349@reddit
This is “jobtown” x 9000 for a firefighter, I used to know some airport rescue guys at ICT and they were absolute aces at their jobs.
aviatorict@reddit
Not only that but many ICT ARFF are cross trained as airport police too!
fireinthesky7@reddit
That's very common, I went to the fire academy with a couple of BNA guys and they alternate between fire and police duty.
aviatorict@reddit
I bet he has some stories!
randytc18@reddit
We asked him about his shift everyday afterwards and always got stories. A lot of medical calls but interesting aircraft accidents and incidents as well. Definitely a cool job. Before 9/11 he'd take us out in the crash trucks to shoot water from the nozzles on the front. I think I loved being out at that firehouse as much as him.
5600k@reddit
Seems fast to me, but also factor in that tower would have picked up the red phone as soon as they saw fire, so whatever few seconds it adds from the engine exploding gave them a slight head start.
stoph311@reddit
Yeah but they gotta get their gear on, as well. Standard protocol for most fire departments is for wheels to be rolling within 2 mins of the station call alert going off. So, this response time was incredible.
5600k@reddit
yeah totally agree
Sacharon123@reddit
Well, if I remember air law correctly, they have to be on site of any crash within the airport perimeter within 3 min, so short reaction time is critical.. :)
bobnuthead@reddit
Within 3 minutes from the time of the alarm, at least one required aircraft rescue and firefighting vehicle must reach the midpoint of the farthest runway serving air carrier aircraft from its assigned post or reach any other specified point of comparable distance on the movement area that is available to air carriers, and begin application of extinguishing agent.
Pretty close but the regs mostly disregard non-139 (air carrier service) areas, and a lot of airports technically have perimeters which would take longer to access.
Also, this is a test that must be demonstrated to the FAA satisfactorily, but depending on the circumstances of a crash, it could be longer than 3 minutes.
All that is to say, great job to the crews here!
hawkeye18@reddit
30 second response time is absolutely phenomenal, and may be one of the only pieces of good news to come out of this mess. In the most critical moment, they excelled, and that is worthy of praise.
Tauge@reddit
I don't know if 30 seconds is fast or not, but I do know they have to be on scene within 3 minutes of receiving the alarm. I'm sure many shoot for lower times. There are videos of just how bad things can get in a minute or two, which means lives are literally saved by cutting each second. They have my utter respect. They train hard for years hoping they never need to use those skills...
Mal-De-Terre@reddit
I'm assuming that they just crash through fences as needed if the crash site if outside of the airport perimeter?
CharacterUse@reddit
In most cases they'll take roads and gates as far as possible, you don't generally know if there is a ditch or a concrete footing to the base of the fence which could get the truck stuck and cause more delay. And you can go a lot faster on pavement.
Sacharon123@reddit
To be fair, you can probably add another 10 seconds or so for the reaction time because I am pretty sure TC slapped the crash button as soon as he saw the engine detach, but still, yes, reaction time of airport fire services is amazing. I would have to look up regulations but if I remember correctly they need to be at any crashsite within the airport perimiter within 3 min if I remember air law correctly?
Crafty_Original_7349@reddit
Those guys very likely heard or saw the initial bang and were crazy quick to jump into action.
Quite frankly I think they deserve some recognition for having an excellent response time- that’s what they are trained for.
Le_petite_bear_jew@reddit
For me it was the md11 slamming into the ground and sending a fuck huge fireball illustrating how dire the situation was
upbeatelk2622@reddit
We've had an MD-11 fireball before (NRT) so yeah.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Well, yeah, of course. I meant that, of these four new angles, the second one is the one that best showed how dire this whole thing was.
efcso1@reddit
For reference, a 'normal' turnout allowance for a staffed fire station here (AU) is 90 seconds from bells to bitumen, pretty much regardless of the time of day. Usually if you're not in the midst of a drill, or sleeping (i.e. at night) you can often get the first one out in half that time.
WarningPleasant2729@reddit
The fire truck coming out in under 40 seconds was crazy to me too
gefahr@reddit
Thanks for assembling the post! I've been traveling and haven't been able to keep up with what's come out, so really appreciated a digestible post with them all.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
You're welcome!
nhc150@reddit
Seeing the full up deflection of the elevator on Angle 2 is eerie. They really tried their hardest to get that thing airborne.
pl0nk@reddit
That’s the thing that is hardest to reckon with, for me. This crew had decades of combined experience. They went to work one day and suddenly had only a couple seconds to apply all of that training, all that experience over thousands of hours, but they faced the impossible. That is just a hard thing to sit with.
Uncabuddha@reddit
I flew out there for almost 30 years, 10 in the MD. A career in aviation will turn you into a pessimist in life because you are always thinking of the things that can go wrong. Even though it was a beautiful day I'll be none of the crew were thinking, "beautiful day, nothing bad will happen". And you are right, everything happens fast but seems time compressed and they're doing their trained responses but nothing was working for them and they new they were doomed. I knew the IRO 30 years. Here's a toast.
BigFatModeraterFupa@reddit
you can do everything perfectly in life, and still end up in a non-fixable situation that is not your fault whatsoever. It makes me want to call my family and friends and tell them i love them. There's nothing you can do except do your best
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Oh, wow, I didn't even notice that 'til now. Good eye!
Sirkrp99@reddit
me just landing at SDF “imma open Reddit”immediately sees this… “Damn”
gravyisjazzy@reddit
Welcome to Louisville. Can't say I've ever flown into here but it must be a little weird touching down surrounded by Worldport.
snklznet@reddit
Flew in the other day. The line of MD11s just sat there parked is tragic
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
It'd be like that sometimes.
ItselfSurprised05@reddit
One time I was catching a connecting flight in DFW.
As I approached my departure gate I saw a crowd gathered around a TV. It was news about a plane crash. That's how I found out about AF447, which had been lost crossing the Atlantic.
I myself has crossed the Atlantic that morning. And I still had one more leg to go, back to Houston.
5043090@reddit
It do.
Glum_Lavishness_601@reddit
If I remember correctly, aircraft firefighting crews have to be able to make any part of the airport in under 2 min. That determines if they need multiple departments.
GoDeacs7@reddit
The article says the plane never got more than 30 feet off the ground. Which makes way more sense than the early reports that said “FlightRadar showed the plane rising to an altitude of 170 feet before crashing.” That never felt right from seeing all the videos.
AlphSaber@reddit
Flightradar uses ADS-B reported flight altitude, which probably uses the barometric altimeter. And given that that is a pressure based instrument, it was probably getting incorrect information from the sensors given an engine had broken off the wing.
GoDeacs7@reddit
Interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing.
AndrijKuz@reddit
Can you repost the link in the comments? I can't click on it or copy it on mobile.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
I did put all the links in a separate comment. Might have to scroll down a bit to find that one.
Flying-Toto@reddit
The more I see videos, the more I feel pain and sadness for the crew. They were fighting against a fate that had already been predicted.
And when you know the size of an MD11, struggling to gain altitude, I flame and with a missing engine.
Man, It make me feel really bad
gravyisjazzy@reddit
What really gets me about it is having seen them take off every working day and them being significantly higher significantly further back than they were. Those guys almost certainly knew how bad things were and fought that plane into the air for the last third of the runway.
ReasonableAd6120@reddit
I’ve stood literally exactly there, in angle 2, next to the approach lights for 35L while planespotting. I’ve been airside on 17R/35L so many times and have seen N259UP a few as well. Still crazy to see these scenes in a familiar location
gravyisjazzy@reddit
I work in WFF, the building to the east of the south tip of 35L. Walking in on Wednesday and seeing it shut down and hearing silence on that side of the building was eerie.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Oh, damn. Yeah, that must've been surreal to witness.
cosmiq_teapot@reddit
Note that you can pause Youtube videos and then jump back/forward single frames with the period and comma keys on your keyboard.
Bravo-Buster@reddit
I know there are more camera angles that haven't been released yet, that should show things a lot closer. I'm fairly sure there's a security camera on the west side of the runway, by UPS storage yards, for example Maybe it's not facing the airfield, or UPS isn't releasing the videos. There's not many locations on that airfield that isn't covered by a ton of cameras.
RecognitionFew5660@reddit
Just 30 seconds to depart, the fire station is actually considered quick for a firefighter standpoint.
CollegeStation17155@reddit
Ibelive they are allowed 60 seconds from the sound of the alarm to having the truck rolling. However, ATC would almost certainly have called it in as soon as they saw fire on the wing.
RecognitionFew5660@reddit
Bro, I bet they heard it or felt it before ATC even reached for the phone. Thats probably where they got their 30-second response time.
CollegeStation17155@reddit
Just saying that even before the engine hit the runway, ATC would have grabbed the hotline that had them running for the trucks… because even in the case of an engine fire on the taxiway, you want them burying the plane in foam NOW.
Charlie2343@reddit
Can see the fire trucks responding in less than 30 seconds after the crash. Just based on the ATC audio they seemed way more confused!
No_Tailor_787@reddit
ATC might well have been the ones to dispatch the trucks, though. I took care of comms at a major airport and there was a radio based "crash phone" in the tower that went straight to the airport fire department. It was a hotline from the tower to the fire guys. The tower would be the first to see an event like this, and likely the first ones to call it in.
Kuriente@reddit
Can you post the link in the comments? I'm on mobile and the link isn't clickable for some reason.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Sure. Give me one moment.
Kuriente@reddit
Nvm I see them in the main post now.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Well, hey, I put them in a comment anyway, just in case. You're welcome, btw!
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Also, for those who are struggling to open the links (say, on if you're on mobile), here they are again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7thbCsSOesw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsLuage4DXg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4BAn8u6dEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ckyvtexBT4
https://www.wdrb.com/neAngle #1ws/louisville-airport-releases-dramatic-security-footage-of-ups-plane-crash/article_e2c76bc3-5e57-4450-b217-e1040bbceb2e.html
EasternShoreFire@reddit
They rolled the trucks so fast
Hammer466@reddit
Wow, angle 2 really shows how low the aircraft was crossing the blast deflector and perimeter fence! I guess it shouldn’t shock me given the building damage and immediate crash, but it still surprised me for some reason.
Shoddy_Act7059@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I had the same reaction.