Year round gas and diesel storage?
Posted by Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 70 comments
Posting this because I am starting to plan my preps for some land I just purchased about 3 hours from my house. My thought is that I would like to have a 55 gallon drum of both diesel and gasoline available.
My question is how do you guys suggest rotating stock to keep it fresh? I will make a trip to this land roughly 10-15 times per year. The land is at approx 8000 feet elevation and temp range will be between -5F and 95F throughout a calender year. My truck which I drive down there is diesel and my equipment is gasoline. The drums will be sealed and not in direct sunlight or snow.
My plan would be to bring a 5 or 10 gallon can of diesel with me every time I go down there - and pump out 10 gallons from the drum into my truck. Then use the 10 gallons of fresh fuel to fill the drum back to full. Something similar with the gasoline, but it would be harder to go through. Maybe 3 gallons per trip (so barely 55 gallons per year).
Would this approach work? I prefer not to use stabilizer if I can avoid it. Do you think essentially diluting fuel on a rotating basis will keep it in decent usable shape if I needed to use it in a emergency situation?
Thanks in advance
fenuxjde@reddit
Rather than use a 55 gallon barrel, I have six 5 gallon tanks. It makes it way more portable, and easier to cycle through. I just fill them with ethanol free 90 octane a shot of sta bil.
I just keep them in order on a shelf in my garage. As I empty one, I refill it and put it back on the other end.
Make sure however you store it is ventilated. I installed small screw vents on each of my gas cans and they work perfectly
Provia100F@reddit
I'd strongly recommend people use a metal safety can made by Eagle or Justrite if you plan to store more than 5 gallons of gas in any location.
kkinnison@reddit
Metal cans have largely been discontinued and no longer produced. prone to rust, leaking, and bad seals. and might cause sparks
Most all are plastic now, with vents and spill proof spouts
not sure why you are dead set on metal
Provia100F@reddit
Metal cans are all that are allowed in workplaces, they are very much still in production.
NotAmusedDad@reddit
Any particular reason why? I've got 5gal poly cans that are over twenty years old and have no problems.
roberttheiii@reddit
Yea for OPs situation this is the way to go. At my house I keep 4 5 gallon cans filled all the time and cycle every six months. Then I have two 30 gallon drums an a number of other 5 gallon cans dry, clean, and ready to roll if there’s a bad enough storm forecast.
fenuxjde@reddit
Serious question, how do you fill and access the fuel in the 30 gallons? Do you have a hand pump or have to lift them and drain it out the bottom?
Part of the reason I'm nervous to go with anything bigger is for how hard they'd be to move. 30 gallons of gas is like 180lbs. My back won't let me lift that up and down too easy.
roberttheiii@reddit
I have a fill right fr115
fenuxjde@reddit
I'm guessing not the Ryanair flight from London to Dublin?
Yeah that pump looks pretty heavy duty. Good to know there are options out there!
NotAmusedDad@reddit
This is The most practical way to approach this. I remember being in a couple of hurricane evacuations, in which people were stuck in 8 hour traffic jams. Scalpers were selling 5gal of fuel in a can for $250
OtherwiseAlbatross14@reddit
Yeah this is 100% the best way to do it for such a small amount. 55 gallons is too much to move easily but too small to have delivery that's worth it.
fenuxjde@reddit
And these mount on a vehicle easily for refilling/MadMaxing
InternetExpertroll@reddit
How far do you drive with that?
funkmon@reddit
All the way to the scene of the crash
mrfixdit@reddit
All the way to the scene of the car fire
OtherwiseAlbatross14@reddit
This guy's seen Mad Max
InternetExpertroll@reddit
lmao good one
fenuxjde@reddit
About a mile to the gas station
Gustomaximus@reddit
You dont even need stabiliser if going through it every 6 months.
I do similar with ~8 * 20L jerries. I put them on a shelf and always put the new ones to the left to ensure rotation.
As I use them I leave empties by the garage door. Once I have 2/4 empties I throw them in the ute next time heading to petrol station.
Also I keep a 5L of petrol to the side as the wife doesn't like using the 20L ones and she can top up the mower type stuff when she wants.
fenuxjde@reddit
For sure, especially with ethanol free, I just do it because I never know when/if I'm going to use the gas, so it may end up sitting for a loooooong time.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
That ethanol free stuff is a good idea. Less prone to water. I like it
fenuxjde@reddit
It's not that, the ethanol actually gums up. Ethanolated gas only lasts about a year best case scenario, much shorter when it's cold. If you use it in anything carbureted, it'll kill it if you leave even 10% ethanol gas sitting it in.
It's also slightly less efficient, which is the opposite of what you want in something you're storing.
Nothing against ethanol, I run e85 in my car, but for storage sake, it's garbage.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Yea I run 91 non ethanol in my dirt bikes, so I hear ya on that. How long have you stored non ethanol and still been able to use it?
TexMedic91@reddit
From my personal experience, I've had no issues running ethanol free/stabil gas stored in South Texas for 1 year in my personal vehicles.
My thought is that modern vehicles are likely far more sensitive to fuel going bad than simple equipment running a carb.
fenuxjde@reddit
Believe it or not, the ethanol is actually a really powerful solvent and will cause significant problems sitting in cars made pre 2001. Any car made since then has silicone and other compounds to handle the fuel that can handle ethanol. Regardless though, the ethanol itself actually breaks down into gum over time, and that will cause issues for any engine.
BatemansChainsaw@reddit
The old Chrysler Imperial I sometimes drive doesn't have a problem with two year old gas, but ymmv.
TexMedic91@reddit
Yeah, I store the gas for my generator but cycle it through my vehicles so it doesn't go to waste. I'm sure my gen would be fine with older gas and probably my cars too, but I figure why risk it?
fenuxjde@reddit
I know most sources will say a year, but I've run 4 year old gas perfectly fine. Keep it cool, dry, and ventilated and as long as you're not dumping it in a Ferrari, it should be fine for quite a while.
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
Do you have plans to maintain the security of the fuel and possessions you will be leaving at this location?
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
This is in an area not populated year round by more than 5% of the land owners. All with significant acreage. Heavily wooded and only one road in and out. It would be very ballsy for someone to snoop around this land. Theft is a very low concern here.
But if you have ideas for safe storage I'm all ears. Anything aside from the dry shed I'm already planning to build
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
Do you have plans to maintain the security of the fuel and possessions you will be leaving at this location
Resident-Welcome3901@reddit
There are no effective means for providing security to unmanned remote sites. Surveillance can be maintained to detect and record incursions, but such sites are notoriously subject to theft and vandalism. Unsecured fuel is an invitation to arson. Google earth has simplified the identification and scouting of such sites.
wolfieAFF@reddit
How do you guys even find ethanol free gas or non-bio diesel? I live in NorCal and literally went hunting one day for it and 100% of gas stations were ethanols and biodiesel, I was like WTF
Ok_Individual_7774@reddit
I agree with another comment that having several smaller gas cans may be a better approach. Portable and easily replaced. If you keep them under basic cover you can mitigate some of the expansion and contraction of fuel with the temperature swings.
I would do the same with the diesel for the same reasons. I have yet to have an animal mess with my fuel containers. UV is the bigger threat.
You say you don't want to treat the fuel but I don't see any way around it. Even if you used ethanol free gasoline you would still need to treat it to extend its life. The diesel will need treated to prevent algae growth and to modify its gel point.
This would be mitigated by burning old fuel and adding new but you really don't want to deal with diesel algae fuel issues.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
I'm thinking if I'm using 5 gallon cans they will be stored out of UV exposure. How long does your diesel last when treated? And not treated? I would probably leave a few cans up there in treated for a few months at near 0 temps. Will that mess it up you think?
Ok_Individual_7774@reddit
I have run diesel that was a two years old with no detectable issues. It was treated. It is cheap insurance. My last treatment bottle was around $12 and treats 300 gallons.
Will a few months untreated hurt it? Likely not. In cold temps the untreated fuel may start to gel at temps as low as freezing. Fuel that has gelled will revert back to liquid fuel when it warms up.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
Store your diesel with some diesel treatment mix. Helps keep it from gelling, makes it last longer.
ye3tr@reddit
If i may ask, what is the gasoline going to be used for? If you plan on powering smaller four stroke engines or appliances, you can use propane instead which doesn't expire. Also it burns cleaner and you can run stoves off of it
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Use proper metal fuel cans, avoid the cheap plastic walmart "cans" if possible. They are going to be a helluva lot safer and last longer.
One time we were burning off some piles of branches and trees we had cleared for another garden area. Fire spread a bit and was burning on the ground 20 yards away where we had a Euro military gas can with diesel. It burned all around it and left a little scorch mark on the bottom of the can. Oddly enough in using our little bulldozer to make a break, I half crushed the can.
The can survived the fire without going up itself and the half crushed can still actually held fuel. I should have saved the can...
Also, proper fuel cans will have good SEALS. I remember keeping a 5 gallon of gas in the back of my Jeep Cherokee for about six months during the end of 1999. Neither I nor anyone riding could ever smell any gas. Try that with your $5. red plastic crap from walmart.... Even the connex where we store "more than a few", it's rare to smell gas in there (often just residue slopped on the can when refilled).
What's your hold up with a proper fuel stabilizer? I'm talking PRI G or D not the crap at walmart. We have had excellent luck with both of these. 10+ years on off road diesel put up with PRI-D and 5 years on gas in proper cans put up with PRI-G.
Where we can, we try to keep the gas rotation at/around a year, but that always doesn't happen due to quantity stored. Diesel we rotate through 3 pieces of heavy equipment, a tractor and a 12KW diesel genset. Gasoline we tend to use less of in around the homestead type uses- so that's normally rotated out to a farm truck, a Polaris Ranger, logsplitter and tiller. We have a couple of gas/propane generators but they are backups to backups so not a lot used in them mainly just to exercise them a couple times a year.
Obviously try to get the non corn subsidy gasoline if possible to store. Probably into the "winter blends" now if that's still a thing????
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Great response thank you.
My gripe with stabilizer is probably just that I won't add it to every fill up and if I forget or whatever - just seems like a pain. Not to mention the added cost of every fill up for something I may not even be storing long enough to warrant stabilizer.
I guess I might run some stabilizer in gas/diesel I buy in October? And intend to theoretically store over winter until April? But I just don't want to be reliant on adding it every time if I'm not really needing it's benefits.
JRHLowdown3@reddit
You don't have to add it regularly.
And that short of a rotation I would only put it in the cans before you fill. The filling action will move it around/mix it in.
That short of a rotation in proper cans it shouldn't really be necessary BUT it will help if you "forget" a can and miss rotation. I've done that a time or six.....
Making more notes as I get a little older- a piece of orange duct tape on the back of the top with date filled and notations- "Gas, treated 10/24" etc.
YankeeDog2525@reddit
Get the non ethanol gas. Longer shelf life.
ChiyuMain@reddit
Just wondering because IIRC gasoline doesn't have a long shelf life? How long are you planning to keep these but the smaller gallons definitely is the way to go. Put them in a few containers for portability and not gonna lie I think the drum would be cumbersome to move around just incase.
rankhornjp@reddit
Is it accessible by a large truck? If so, I would get a 250 gal farm tank. Then everytime you go, you fill up your truck. Once you get down to about 100 gals call your local fuel supplier and have them come fill it back up.
davidm2232@reddit
You can get gasoline delivered too. I have a 250 gallon tank for gas and diesel. Truck comes to refill both as needed. $.30 cheaper than the gas station on average which is great. I only go to gas stations now when taking long trips.
rankhornjp@reddit
Yea, I do the same. I have 3 tanks; 500gal e85, 150gal ethanol free, 250gal off-road diesel. The fuel guy comes by once a month to fill them up, so we always have plenty on-hand. We love it. There're no dirty gas stations, no worrying about your card getting compromised, no lugging gas cans back and forth all the time, and when bad weather comes, I don't have to worry about waiting in lines to get gas.
IlliniWarrior1@reddit
you need to cache diesel - forget trying to stock today's gas without plenty of stabilizer - travel in with any gas necessary for that particular visit ......
store the diesel in 5 gallon poly pour cans - dig yourself a shallow cache site - establish a good drain and line the interior - camo cover the cache site well on leaving ......
**** I'd have several drums stored empty and ready to use - hand pumps in stock - could be a pre-SHTF period that would allow a sizable fuel run and stockpiling ......
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Didn't think about that. It would likely be possible to keep some empty 55 gal drums and buy it right away if stuff started getting squirrely. The fuel stations would have a day or 2 of stock I bet.
Yes it's roughly 200 miles to my land. But the truck will easily do 600 miles on a full fuel tank. I hardly ever let it get below 1/2, which means 300 miles. Well within range. But I think I'll start keeping 5 gallons of diesel at home just to top off if needed. Good ideas.
Longjumping_One_2308@reddit
If your equipment doesn’t have catalytic converters you can use AVGAS - it has a very long shelf life
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
What's that? No cats in my stuff. Mostly rudimentary carburetor shit. Where do you buy it?
Longjumping_One_2308@reddit
Airplane “Low Lead 100” aviation fuel from Regional airports. Sometimes they only sell to pilots so you may need to ask around.
Provia100F@reddit
You really don't want to be using 100LL in engines that stay on the ground, you will quite literally be inhaling lead and increasing your blood-lead levels.
Longjumping_One_2308@reddit
Breathing in exhaust of any sort isn't recommended. Proper ventilation is a must. Lead or no lead.
Postman556@reddit
Any advice on strong smell/fumes? 20 red Jerry cans in a sea container create a strong smell, I have tried everything to make sure they aren’t leaking, but they still smell really strong.
clauderbaugh@reddit
Don't use plastic jugs. Buy once, cry once and pick up some quality jerry cans from Waivian or actual NATO cans. I've used the Waivian ones for a very long time and despite me beating the crap out of them they are still solid.
BarrelCacti@reddit
At that point you should really consider getting some solar panels and batteries. Both are ridiculously cheap right now.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Already have a very nice solar system. But heck yeah they are super cheap. And LiFePO4 batteries can be had stateside now without waiting 4 months to ship from china
Ryan_e3p@reddit
That's a ton of fuel all in one container. I would recommend against doing this for a few reasons:
hoardac@reddit
I use 5 gallon cans with the wide pour openings and tag them with the fill date. I add Stabil to the the ethanol free gas and diesel treatment to to the diesel. Those sit there for an emergency. I start to cycle them out and refill/retag at a little less than 2 years. I have 2 cans of each I use without treatment and just refill as I need them to save a few bucks and time. As a side note those little battery powered fuel pumps work great for the cans, it saves a lot of spills and lifting.
whats_in_the_boxlady@reddit
Get some good Jerry cans. Not Vevor, they are cheaply made. Have a RhinoLine or LineX place coat the outsides of them. And rotate one per trip. That way you aren't mixing old and new.
DeafHeretic@reddit
I keep 92 octane gasoline in a 55 gallon barrel (with a hand pump), treated with Pri-G. I also keep some in several 5 gallon cans - for periodic use in power equipment.
I keep \~100 gallons of diesel in a 110 gal aux tank that has a 12V pump, plus I keep the tanks of my diesel truck and pickup (37 & 20 gallons respectively) full. I use Pri-D to treat the fuel in the aux tank.
My daily driver, a gasoline powered SUV, I usually keep its tank at least half full.
Destroythisapp@reddit
You can purchase ethanol free fuel that when stored in an air tight container, will stay good for a year or more. I recommend 5 gallon jugs vs a barrel. 55 gallons of gas is a rather decent explosion.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Yea I think just seeing these comments makes more sense to do smaller 5 gallon cans. I guess I'll just run some masking tape on them with a date.
I'll probably just try to make sure everything is new-ish before the really cold months
Destroythisapp@reddit
I keep about 20 gallons of recreational, ethanol free gas on hand and when stored properly with fuel stabilizer it’s still good after 2 years of setting. Gas doesn’t go bad nearly as fast if you remove the ethanol and store it airtight.
What I do is after about a year and half if I haven’t used a jug yet I just dump it into my SUV, burns it with zero issue.
Now diesel I keep a 40 gallon transfer tank of, plus a couple 4 and 5 gallon jugs but I use it regularly for tractor so it doesn’t set very long. But again if stored in an airtight container with some additive diesel will stay good for years.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
Do you think regular diesel without additive would store for say 8 months in 65-0 degree weather? I would like to just leave some up there and no it would work even if I didn't get to it for one winter
Destroythisapp@reddit
Absolutely. The main thing about storing diesel is moisture, what you want to do is whatever container you use to store it, feel it up as much as possible so there is as little free air in the container. This prevents moisture from dropping out of the air into the fuel, and make sure the container is air tight as not to allow more moisture in.
I got a dozer started once that had been setting in a farmers field for at least 15 years using the original diesel in the tank. Diesel isn’t really like gas in the fact that it’s more oil like and not a gaseous, volatile compound. Diesel stores much, much better than gas and doesn’t really lose its potency when stored. The main problem with diesel is the build up of moisture and other contaminants from improper storage.
touchstone8787@reddit
55gal drum of diesel isnt a big deal. Why not get a transfer tank for the truck?
55gal drum of gas is a liability. At best youll have a bunch of bad gas youll have to dispose of.
Necessary-Shift-2775@reddit (OP)
I prefer not to have a tank in the back of the truck at all times. My 34 gallon stock tank would get me to my property where I'm storing stuff.
What would you suggest in order to rotate the 55 gallon gas drum? I don't really think "at best you'll have to dispose of it" is a fair assessment. Fuel without additive is good for a least a year for carbureted equipment.
touchstone8787@reddit
Having 2 transfer tanks would make your system pretty easy. Even if you got a "fuel truck" its only job is to drive those tanks around.
https://www.northerntool.com/products/rds-aluminum-transfer-fuel-tank-55-gallon-rectangular-diamond-plate-model-71110-3490174
Something like this would be better than a drum. For rotation I would eat as much of the fuel as possible before I refilled it. I would try and fill as much of it as possible in one go. Some sort of date/grade/brand would be nice to have on the tank as well.
Another option is running smaller fuel cells. 5 different 15gal tanks with staggard fill times will stretch your stash. Another benefit of a system like this is if you have a few gal of crud you can tune it up with some fresher stuff.
My best case comment was referring to the safety aspect of handling 55gal of gas. It takes a pinhole in the top of the drum to let out enough vapors to cause serious damage. Build this system with care.
Pando5280@reddit
Go smaller at first, ie multiple smaller cans. Then go bigger once you start spending more time there, ie an elevated ~200 gallon tank like you see on rural farms. Use a gas additive to extend shelf life. Id call your local propane supplier and see if they know who fills large vehicle gas tanks on private residences before investing in the larger tank though. They'd likely know or know who would know how to get it filled.