Safe pilots are not entertaining
Posted by Cal-Goat@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 47 comments
Rewatched The Spirit of St Louis on one of my deadheads this weekend and was reminded of how the tenets of safe aviation do not make for good cinema.
We don’t tend to think of Lindy as reckless or irresponsible, but at a bare minimum, flying that fatigued was borderline suicidal. I don’t know how accurate all of the other details in the movie are, but it truly stands as a lesson of what not to do for modern pilots.
The “Lucky” prefix to Lindy was all too appropriate. His survival largely amounted to a bunch of unforeseeable things going his way after he had stacked the cards against himself in a way that had me cringing for most of the film.
But it’s a damn good movie. Just like Top Gun, Flight, The Right Stuff and any number of other films where the protagonist pilot eschews prudence and safety.
JJohnston015@reddit
How did he stack the cards against himself? I was under the impression that he prepared exhaustively.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
I hadn’t slept in over 24 hours prior to the flight
gromm93@reddit
And the flight itself lasted over 33 hours.
Honestly, I don't know how you expect that to go, because as awesome as flying is, droning along over the Atlantic gets boring after a while. "Can't sleep the night before" was a perfectly good reason to scrub the flight for a day.
I can't remember if the weather was only cooperating that morning, or the why it was that particular day or nothing.
catonmyshoulder69@reddit
I once drove a motorcycle from port hardy on Vancouver island all the way to Winnipeg non stop. 40 hrs awake, on two wheels at highway speeds. I welcomed EVERY fuel stop of which there were 17. Funny thing is every time I thought about stopping and resting I felt completely awake, then I experienced the unbelievably flat sameness that is Saskatchewan...I actually hallucinated without any outside help.Good times.
GGCRX@reddit
If I remember there was some time pressure because Lindbergh wasn't the only one trying to cross the Atlantic.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
I operated a 16:45 flight with 3 other pilots where we rotated in 4 hour shifts, with bunks, and I still felt like death when we landed.
The Lindbergh flight sounds like pure torture to my soft ass.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
Attempting the takeoff on a muddy runway pointed at powerlines and trees was also questionable. I think the official history says he cleared the powerlines by 6 feet which, given the lack of performance data (they had never tested it at full fuel) amounts to a coin flip with his life. “I think I’ll make it”
I’m not discounting his accomplishments and contributions to aviation, I’m just saying that in the modern lens of what we consider the minimum threshold of safety, this flight was insane.
kmac6821@reddit
Didn’t he test it with full fuel when flying out of North Island (now Coronado), CA? I thought that’s why he flew there… to takeoff at max weight.
Or did I hear that incorrectly?
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
According to the Lindbergh wikipedia article, they never tested it with full fuel. I’m not sure why, but I suspect it was related to time pressure.
GGCRX@reddit
All true but in fairness the reason we have that minimum threshold of safety now is because of all the people who got killed back then.
A lot of early powered aviation was insane compared to modern standards, starting with the Wright Brothers. "Lemme just lie on the wing of this giant kite and stick a couple of engines on it and try to steer by bending the wings." It's a minor miracle they didn't break their necks.
Even the later stuff at Edwards was crazy. "Eh, I've got busted ribs but the first supersonic flight in which we don't really know what's gonna happen to the controls once we're above Mach 1 is mine and fuckit YOLO!" was damn nuts too.
usafmtl@reddit
☝️☝️☝️☝️
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
Now that’s entertainment!
AF_Blades@reddit
Safe pilots are not entertaining.
False
Many pilots become "safe" by being saved by a competent CFI in training, and surviving stupid ideas while solo.
Impressive-Yak-7449@reddit
I do also have a small piece of the original Spirit of STL
martianfrog@reddit
I want one of those... Nice!
TheOneTrueZippy8@reddit
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.
ti36xamateur@reddit
Works for rock climbers too
Taxus_Calyx@reddit
Fred Beckey, Yvon Chouinard, Jim Bridwell, Royal Robbins, Warren Harding, and Reinhold Messner have entered the chat.
ti36xamateur@reddit
Dan Randolph has entered the chat
Strega007@reddit
Actually, there are. Hoover...Yeager...Olds...Anderson...all died of old age. It is a trite and not particularly useful saying.
KinksAreForKeds@reddit
Am I misremembering, or wasn't Jimmy a combat pilot in the war? It's neither here nor there, just wonder what he thought of Lindy's decisions.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
He flew combat missions in the Pacific as a civilian liaison. I read a P-38 book some years ago and he was basically sent out to squadrons in the Pacific to teach long range navigation and fuel leaning techniques among other things.
He’s alleged to have shot down a Japanese airplane but I think the deal was that it could never be officially acknowledged because he wasn’t supposed to participate in combat missions.
martianfrog@reddit
You need to get a refund. He wasn't in the Pacific in WW2, he was in Europe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Historycord/comments/1az3xs3/hollywood_star_and_usaac_col_jimmy_stewart_was/
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
Yeah i misread that comment as being about Lindbergh in the war and addressed the Jimmy Stewart correction in my other reply.
martianfrog@reddit
:) all is well then. Clark Gable was over in UK too in B-17.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
I read the book
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
I misread that. Jimmy Stewart was a bomber pilot in World War II. He also flew at least one combat mission in the B-52 over Vietnam.
martianfrog@reddit
B-24 Liberator bombers out of UK, he was in charge of a group of bombers, so he had two very successful careers.
jay_in_the_pnw@reddit
yours is just a nonsense take that shows complete ignorance of Lindbergh's flying history, the nature of the race and the prize, his planning, the weather that delayed him for a week, and the narrow weather break that he took advantage of. As well as the building of the Spirit just for this endeavor compared to the other multiengine planes that had failed. It ignores his history of flying as a US Air Mail Pilot pioneering routes in flying in through rain, snow, ice
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
Thanks for that insightful take.
I’ve been reading aviation history since I was a child, been flying for 25 years, and made my living as a professional pilot since 2002.
I think you’ve completely missed my point. But we all acknowledge that you are the king of the internet.
jay_in_the_pnw@reddit
Cal, these are your own words:
Also these words:
Cal, which is it?
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
You’re just here to score points and talk down to people. You’re not interested in actual dialogue.
Enjoy your superiority and tell everyone what a fraud I am.
✌️
jay_in_the_pnw@reddit
I try not to talk down to anyone Cal, that's why don't just appeal to authority like you:
All while also writing:
Impressive-Yak-7449@reddit
Friend and former coworker, John, built the most accurate and airworthy replica of the Spirit of STL. Here It is at the Arlington, WA fly-in back in August 2019. While researching the build, John was granted access to the actual plane at the Smithsonian where he discovered a pair of pliers hidden behind the instrument panel used to open a fuel tank. My photo
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
That’s rad. I recently watched a video of a replica that was built at the Rhinebeck Aerodrome. So much respect for the guys that have that passion to rebuild and preserve history like this.
Impressive-Yak-7449@reddit
In the replica, they did have a camera attached to a periscope for ease of taxiing. My photo
SoyMurcielago@reddit
Now that’s what i call a partial panel
Impressive-Yak-7449@reddit
_Abe_Froman_SKOC@reddit
The scene where he steps out the hangar door to check the weather before the flight gets me every time for some reason. He's about to undertake this legendary flight, made all of these meticulous arrangements personally, and he does what every pilot does when the weather is questionable- he goes outside and feels it for himself.
Fabulous classic movie.
Cal-Goat@reddit (OP)
No weather products. Just vibes
_Abe_Froman_SKOC@reddit
No parachute. Just vibes.
Strega007@reddit
The "DOOREP" happens to be a pretty accurate weather report.
Ras_Prince_Monolulu@reddit
Fuck Lindbergh, that antisemitic Hitler's taint-tonguing corporat-backed sunovabitch.
Douglas Corrigan is where it's at.
I said what I said.
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ti36xamateur@reddit
I picked the wrong week to quit drinking