If you ran the libertarian party what would be some changes you would make to make the party competitive or a threat to the big 2 parties?
Posted by ApolloxKing@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 85 comments
It feels like the 2 party system is just going to be how things are for our lifetimes, is there anything the libertarian party can do differently to become a legit threat to the liberals/conservatives?
Sea-Leopard1611@reddit
We are dealt a shitty hand and we have to be realistic. There is no way the Libertarian Party wins in a general election against the Democrats and GOP.
It’s important however to understand that the Democrats and Republicans are not parties and more like coalitions. The faction in the “party” that has the most influence and power becomes the party. MAGA replaced the Neocons and the Progressives are replacing the neoliberals.
With this in mind, it wouldn’t be entirely unrealistic to just fully dump the whole “3rd party” idea and just join ranks with the GOP and just become the dominant faction within it. When that happens the GOP will become the Libertarian Party and chances of a Libertarian president will skyrocket. More of a shot than facing the 2 party system as a 3rd party in my opinion
clarkstud@reddit
Don’t nominate a faggy tit to start.
Opposite-Rope-6847@reddit
The point of libertarianism isn't to complete for the power, it is to dismantle said concentrated power. we got into a place where "aboslute power, corrupts absolutely" and because of that we need to revert to our fundamental constitution-bound principles and free-up the states to elect and make their governance by their own individual people. at this time. the people that run the "federal" government are not off the people. none of them are under retirement age, and none of them have a networth under 1 million ( trust me I used AI to check and of 500 congress, only 11 are non-rich non-old folk )
Trypt2k@reddit
The two party system is the best there is and works well. The best libertarians can do is pick a party and change it over time, which is what we're trying to do, some of us anyway. Or we can play the third party veto, which we also do on occasion (Clinton 1992 win comes to mind, I guess libertarians really wanted a Democrat, as without them it would never have happened).
SaltyBigBoi@reddit
Start tackling corruption. It’ll make it harder for the 2 parties to remain in power when their corrupt politicians aren’t rigging everything. It might also encourage people to vote third party in a “clean out the swamp” kind of way (one can hope).
sbbln314159@reddit
AOC got brownie points for trying to ban insider trading by members of Congress. Imagine how much support there'd be for someone NOT socialist campaigning on that!
neogeek23@reddit
1) People vote for people, not ideas: Stop going back and forth every cycle between democrat-lite and republican-lite candidates. Find real true charasmatic libertarians who are really libertarians first but can work in the system - think Milei.
2) Make politics practical, not philosophical: Pick one or two issues that are in line with libertarian philosophy and focus on those and only those. Don't try to fix everything. Make significant but small changes. Don't scare the normies with massive changes. Also these issues need to be very clearly and directly tied to impacts in their lives. If it isn't already immediately clear how this issue makes their life better, another issue needs to be selected unless it can be explained in 10 seconds.
3) Make libertarianism socially acceptable: We have to somehow combat the idea that a third party vote is throwing your vote away. We probably need some celebrity or popular icon endorsements. We need to frame democrat and republican as boomer or some other easy divide that exists in people so there is at least one group that feels "allowed" to buck normality and vote third party. Young vs Old seems to have worked for Melei and it makes a lot of sense, so why not there? The uni-party is for boomers.
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
Most sensible post here.
Ross Perot, the most successful, national third party candidate in recent times, ran on a single issue: the national debt. Why can't libertarians do that?
sbbln314159@reddit
THIS, ESPECIALLY now that the fucking interest payments are more than our entiee military spending (which is appalling in its own right)
Fantastic-Sock-8042@reddit
Republicans claim to want smaller government but consistently expand executive power, defense spending, and social control. Democrats are explicit about wanting more government intervention, just in different areas. Both grow the bureaucracy, both expand federal authority, both add regulations and paperwork.
The ideology of the Libertarian Party should "less government, less regulation, less taxes, individual autonomy." Stay out the moralizing business.
sbbln314159@reddit
This feels like good advice, but...
It seems impossible in the national stage nowadays
I genuinely think it's a major appeal to a lot of people who vote Democrat.
Republicans tend to be "keep the govt out of businesses" while Democrats tend to be "keep the govt out of MY business." LGBT+, abortion rights, policing, privacy and state surveillance are all major talking points for the progressive left with the consensus that the govt should dial back its role in all those. Dems fail to deliver on those and a lot of people (my mom included) vote Dem even if they disagree with their financial policies bc the civil liberties issues are more important to them.
BringBackUsenet@reddit
Worse than each wanting to expand things, they collude to help each other grow their authoritarianism by cutting "deals" to get what they want so many unpopular programs become part of the cancerous growth that is government.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Knock off the fucking purity tests, and don't be afraid to kick people out. We'll never be taken seriously as long as we have shit like the dude who stripped on stage, and "What's next, a license to make toast in your own damn toaster?!?"
Gary Johnson was perhaps one of the best candidates we ever had. To the point we got 3.something percent of the popular vote, and the duopoly had to stage a character assassination.
But many members of the party hated him and booed him because he dared say he was OK with a drivers license to operate motor vehicles on public roads.
A true AnCap has no chance of winning, ever. It's not a popular message. And we need to stop pretending that's who we should run.
The best candidate is the candidate who can get you the most votes while still being in your ideology. Not who is the most ideologically pure. Third parties can't win in an FPTP system. What we can do is be big enough that we force the main parties to adopt some of our stances, or come to our table.
FlyingSkyWizard@reddit
The democrats are constantly losing due to the purity testing, if you've got the wrongthink on any of the LGBTWTFBBQSNAFU stuff, you're out, if you're TOO liberal, and the donors get itchy, you're sidelined.
The libertarians already won in the way you describe, the tea party was a libertarian splinter cell within the republican party that basically took over and became MAGA, it's insane and corrupt, but that's what it is.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
There is nothing "libertarian" about MAGA.
sbbln314159@reddit
I'm sorry, but "Don't make me break out the copypasta" is the funniest thing I've read all week.
...also, can I read it?
FlyingSkyWizard@reddit
Was the tea party libertarian?
MAGA is a deranged parody of libertarianism, but it's cherry picked just enough of it that most of the simple "i want the government to leave me alone" types have fallen for it. Trump 1.0 MAGA was more libertairan, trump 2.0 has drifted far to the neocon side.
Flamadin@reddit
The Tea Party started off kind of Libertarian-ish, but the proto-Maga quickly realized the danger of that and joined up and took it over.
ThisIsPlanA@reddit
This is absolutely true and no one seems to acknowledge it.
I went to my initial local Tea Party protest in Georgia with a sign that lambasted both main parties. Within less than two years it had morphed into far right social conservatives.
cambat2@reddit
Maga isn't libertarianism, it's populism allost entirely. Just because there is some overlap in ideology doesn't mean it is a parody
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
Trump was always a socialist, never a libertarian.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
No, he wasn't. This pasta is from 6 years ago. All Trump 1.0 policies.
*Sigh* Time to educate The_Dimwits....
"MAGAtarians" are not Libertarians.
MAGAtarians are not libertarians, no matter how hard you screech.
No. Every ideology must engage in some form of gate keeping. Otherwise what stops a bunch of communists from saying they are republicans?
No matter how much they say they are republicans, they aren't. Your views go against the core values on libertarianism on far too many issues.
Let's see where you "MAGA" people are completely opposite us libertarians:
Now that doesn't sound very "MAGA". Neither does this:
Nor does this:
How about this:
Please man, where is the "MAGA" in all of this?
EDIT: I'm going to keep adding more "MAGA" viewpoints. I find it fun. We don't fully disagree with everything the Trumpsters do. But we are definitively NOT "MAGAtarians".
And:
And:
And:
And:
Oh yeah, and Trumps pick for Attorney General had this to say:
Yes, we DO love the constitution more than your imaginary "safety"
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
Taxus_Calyx@reddit
Sorry, but aren't "knock off the purity tests" and "don't be afraid to kick people out" mutually exclusive in a sense? What is liberty if you can't get nekkit? And the toaster thing isn't that farfetched at this point. I mean, selling a small ball across state lines without a warning label saying "this toy is a small ball" is already a federal offense.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Not at all. It's called "Freedom of Association". If you're going to get up on stage at a national convention and embarrass the entire movement making us look like the complete joke everyone thinks we are, then you can, and should, be kicked the fuck out and never welcomed back.
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
I thought Ron Paul was the best in my lifetime. Better than any modern candidate that had run post-Paul.
I agree with AnCap on the states. Not all Libertarians are AnCap though. Wouldn't you say Javier Millei is AnCap? He's turned Argentina's inflation way around.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Milei is absolutely not an AnCap. Or did you forget about him wanting to use predictive AI and mass surveillance in the name of "crime prevention"?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2024/08/02/ar-using-ai-to-stop-crime-early/3981722571581/
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
Yuck, sounds like a lot of 1984. I was just in the UK, and met some British who just openly joked about their Big Brother. I didn't know he was for this change.
AspirantVeeVee@reddit
Run on an anti corruption platform tell both sides you are here to make sure the other side faces justice. If I got in, first thing is term limits for all FEDs. Next thing is dismantling all the instructions.
Leather-Application7@reddit
It is a MUST that they run a candidate in every Federal/national election. Act like a damn legitimate party. Naked guy has a right to be naked in his home, a nudist beach/resort, the locker room, etc, but not at a national fucking political convention. We look like cosplay morons and a joke. We need to start recruiting names to speak for the party, Penn Jillette, Drew Carey, etc to speak to people. Also, stop the infighting. Would we be a much better country if we start moving in the direction of liberty with a few policies? Yes. Instead, we fight over libertarian ideological purity and get zero accomplished. Momentum can bring more gains.
IndependentTea678@reddit
I would work on getting a primary in every state and stop letting delegates/caucuses choose who we vote for as a nation. As we saw in the last election Chase Oliver barely won against not having a candidate at all. To be clear I know Chase Oliver was the worst candidate the Libertarian party has ever elected! Finally, I would turn the focus of each state's party to moving toward a new statewide voting system. The only way we ever get a voice is by using a system that truly counts every vote. It has been called Preferential Voting, Ranked Choice Voting (RCV), and most recently Instant Runoff Voting (IRV). Either way that voting system prevents faithless delegates, gerrymandering electoral votes, and still prevents the popular/majority vote from over ruling the voice of the people. I have a lot more I could add from a policy perspective but if we can't change the way our vote is counted none of that matters anyway!
Goldenchomp1@reddit
Develop a manchurian candidate and run him as a Republican.
jmd_forest@reddit
As a die hard libertarian I don't think it will ever be competitive. The vast majority of people are afraid to be free in the libertarian sense because that type of freedom requires personal responsibility and all too many people really like the idea of government safety nets backing their bad decision making.
HR_Paul@reddit
To compete - you gotta be reality based. It's a wide open growth market ready for monopolization. The LP supports *any* tax cut last I checked this year, so the tax cuts for the wealthy to pay for cutting the health care subsidies meets their standard.
I'm opposed to any subsidy on principle but this is an emergency, passing the subsidy now leaves more than 5 weeks to figure out a vastly superior system and implement it so no one will ever get another subsidy ever again for any reason.
Neebat@reddit
Curated membership. If you can't at least act sane, maybe you shouldn't participate in selecting the candidates? If you can't, you're still welcome to vote Libertarian in the general election, but within the party, we need people that can represent thoughtful independence.
Timely_Mud_912@reddit
I would stop trying to appeal to out of circle republicans and would focus efforts on being an alternative to both.
Traditional-Sort3018@reddit
Work to legalize abortion and same-sex marriage, and criminalize adults marrying literal children.
Traditional-Sort3018@reddit
Oh yeah, and do more for immigration rights.
battlepassbattlepass@reddit
Zeil Zulu
battlepassbattlepass@reddit
shits about to hit the fan i fear, we need to group up and secede
JustTryingToHelp88@reddit
Removal of the NFA, alcohol can be purchased by those under 21 but must 18+ and in the armed services, all public facilities and building to have individual bathrooms so people can just shut in privacy with mandated bidets on all toilets, marijuana legalization at the federal level for recreational use, privatized healthcare but free mental health care. Allow immigration with vetting but reduce the testing requirements. Castle doctrine across all 50 states and one may not be punished in the court of law for protecting their life or another life in immediate danger and removing the ability for the family of the individual that decided to force entry into one’s home. Keep abortions legal across the board up to 18 weeks with exceptions to incest, rape, and medically necessary at cost to one’s insurance company. Remove mandatory vehicle insurance as I believe it is a scam but if you hit someone and you do not have insurance and refuse to pay for the damages, you go straight to jail.
trippknightly@reddit
The Libertarians are just too fucking ivory tower. Need to lose that. Or some candidate flies the LO flag but does their own thing.
mtg-Moonkeeper@reddit
How many times does one hear that a voter is fiscally conservative and socially liberal? Pretty often. The problem is that they are more moderate in their libertarianism. The party itself has to become a big tent of fiscally conservative socially liberal policymakers. The party has to become more moderate....I know that sounds like a dirty word...
When someone is dissatisfied with the 2 major parties, and maybe they're considering a third party, or willing to vote for one, they look around in the society they're entrenched in and used to. They may only want to move the needle towards libertarianism 10% of the way or so. The country has been going in the wrong general direction since 1913. The party has to concentrate on small victories that move the needle, so that the country can move in the right general direction for the next 100.
Imagine for a moment that the average voter in the US says "I wish I could have a fiscally conservative socially liberal party. My taxes are too high and abortion should be legal..." The Party, seeing that as their cue jump in and say "You're right, let's eliminate social security, Medicare, medicaid, 2/3 of the military, the Federal Reserve, and bring back the gold standard, the legalization of hard drugs, prostitution, and the tommy gun." While those views are necessarily wrong in the long term, in the short term they would cause hardship and drive away the average voter for being too far away from the mainstream.
Dry_Usual555@reddit
Get back on the ballot in NY State!!
dagthepowerful@reddit
I think supporting ranked choice/instant runoff voting is the best way to (hopefully) break the two party stranglehold. Hopefully libertarianism can rise as an attractive alternative. Something had to change to make voters think a third party vote is not a wasted vote.
Sizzzzzl@reddit
Totally agree, but they did that for the NYC mayoral election and see how that turned out. You'll get much more variance on all sides which will particularly favor authoritarians.
dagthepowerful@reddit
It may take a while for the benefits to be realized. But I still think it's the most likely path to breaking up the two party stranglehold.
dpidcoe@reddit
I think it's too early to hold that up as an example. My prediction is that after NY gets to experience True Socialism(tm), the powers that be will wise up and run people who are actually electable so as to not let that happen again.
The problem with two parties isn't just that there are only two choices, but that both choices absolutely suck and everybody is so wrapped up in team sports they're unwilling to hold their guy accountable.
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boogieboardbobby@reddit
I've felt for the longest time that town councils, mayors, state lawmakers and similar type elected roles is the path to recognition for Libertarian values(note, not party). Also, and I almost hate to say it...you can't be a hardcore Libertarian and expect people to take the party seriously. Zero government rhetoric or anarchism won't get Libertarians elected.
Baby steps, running for President with almost no political track record is a waste of time and money.
ThisIsPlanA@reddit
We treat pragmatism and moderation like it's a disease for some reason. But the older I get, the more pragmatic and moderate I become.
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
Not all Libertarians are anarchist, but I'd say all Libertarians agree in limited or smaller government. I agree, you can't have Anarchy win.
boogieboardbobby@reddit
Yeah, fully recognize that there are variable degrees of Libertarianism. Just pointing out that that kind of message won't be well received by most people and I doubt it will get many Libertarian candidates elected.
3_Thumbs_Up@reddit
None.
The only way for the libertarian party to become a threat to the big two in the foreseeable future, is by not being libertarian at all.
strangerducly@reddit
We need ranked choice voting yesterday.
LibertyorDeath2076@reddit
I'd drop the mainstream libertarian stance that borders aren't real and citizenship doesn't matter.
I'd classify campaign contributions from lobbyist groups as bribery.
I'd also ban dual-citizens from serving in the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government, those currently serving would need to denounce their foreign citizenship to continue serving.
Other than that I don't think I'd stray too far from mainstream libertarian policy.
White_C4@reddit
The two party system is not going away until there are serious legislative reforms across the country.
The current political system is literally built to ironclad the two party system in the state and federal level. Now, libertarians do have a shot at local elections and there are examples of those happening. But local changes are only local and they tend to get met with a lot of friction from the state and federal over certain agendas.
There needs to be legislative and electoral reforms:
Switch from single member district to multi-member district so that representation is actually more proportional.
Any party that polls 5%+ votes have access to the debate platform alongside Republicans and Democrats.
Expand house of representative seats so gerrymandering is effectively weak and the Democrats and Republicans have a harder time maintaining power with more politicians in the mix.
There are a couple more reforms to make, but those are some of the things that can give libertarians a much better shot beyond just the local level.
MannequinWithoutSock@reddit
Start local.
I don’t know why so many people are like, ‘yeah, run in the presidential election while there’s no/few representatives in the house/senate.’
LTRand@reddit
100% this. Prove libertarians can run a town. Then a county. Then a state. That's the path to legitimacy. Right now is a time for change, but people want proof of past performance.
Libertarians need to listen to Strong Towns. If they can improve peoples lives while reducing governance, they have a solid shot for growth.
ThreetoedJack@reddit
The NH Free state is doing some good work in that regard.
However, libertarians as a whole will be better served if they focus on the responsibility side of the philosophy and far less on the libertine.
BringBackUsenet@reddit
From the reports I've seen NH is overrun with leftists from Massa-chooses that more than offset the handful of Freestaters going there.
Libertarians would do best to ignore politics completely. The time and mental energy can then be put into working on a better life for themselves and those they care about.
Last_Construction455@reddit
The problem is a lot of issues come from inflation and government over regulation. A libertarian community could do fine, but still feel the effects of national policies and local government could get the blame.
skeletus@reddit
Aside from monetary policy, there is still a lot of local regulations holding towns back. Libertarians can capitalize on that applying the principles of Strong Towns.
Last_Construction455@reddit
True I know locally it’s hard to get anything built because of crazy rules
LTRand@reddit
Prove you can do better than the other towns around you. Then you get a county. The requirement isn't that you transform it into utopia, but that you do better than the other parties running towns around you.
Right now the only example is the free state project that most sane people call a failure. If libertarians can't manage a town, they have no credibility in running a nation.
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
Running in the presidential election can give the party visibility and introduce the party platform to voters. That helps state and local races, which rely more on party affiliation. But in that case, the national messaging would need to focus on the brand as much as the candidate.
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
This is the way. Grassroots and build a good base.
BlueLaceSensor128@reddit
I'd sit down with the other bigger third parties and coordinate a campaign to run out the two major parties on a platform of weeding out corruption and restoring true accountability to all levels of our government, trying the worst for the treason they're obviously committing. And I'd especially highlight all of the times they worked together against the people.
LoveIsOnlyAnEmotion@reddit
Three parties did this in the 19th Century (combined third parties) to win. The Whigs may have not been considered 3rd party, but they merged with the Radical Republicans and Free Soilers. I'm not sure what 3rd party must aligns with Libertarian. Constitution Party? Too much Theocracy for me. Tea Party? Do they exist anymore? Green Party? Yes, I see this although the can be a bit progressive, but their non-intervetionalism fits the mold.
Kur0d4@reddit
Let's start with the party that splintered because they hated the Mises Caucus; Liberal Party USA. From there, we can probably extend an olive branch to the Foward party, No Labels party, Reform party, Unity party, and maybe the Alliance Party.
BlueLaceSensor128@reddit
I wasn't aware, but that's very interesting.
A merger would be unlikely with more liberal parties and I think it's useful to have a coalition across the spectrum to capture the most people fed up with this shit. And I think there's some value in being able to tell the green or progressive parties that when the corruption is rooted out that we can go back to our corners and have a healthy and reasonable debate over how our country should be. Not all potentially being caught up in a uniparty.
Hell, one of our strongest selling points is a true belief in the tenth amendment. That each state can become an experiment in democracy and the federal government should stay out of the way as long as you're not violating anyone's rights.
RP_Fan@reddit
If I ran the party? IDK.
The first two things our country needs to defeat the Republicans and the Democrats are:
Eliminating Primaries. Every candidate running for election in any given race should run against each other in a single election.
An alternative to the FPTP voting method. I like Approval Voting. However, I’m definitely not an expert in this area, and some other method, or combination of methods, may very well be better.
Even if these two things don’t result libertarians winning elections (and that’s likely), they would go a hell of a long way toward thwarting the election of polarizing candidates like Hillary or DT.
These-Instruction677@reddit
I know I'm gonna get mas downvoted but get rid of ideas like no drivers license and no Ambulances or no public funded stuff at all we need some government funded things and if the party keeps having a stance of no driver license people will think you're all a bunch of nut jobs .
Turbulent-Wrap-2198@reddit
Be more Rand Paul and less Ron Paul.
Focus more on building a bench. Get libratarians elected to local offices, then run them for higher offices.
Bagain@reddit
Stop the performative dance of running a presidential nomination. It’s a waist of time money and resources. Use those things to support local elections where there’s a chance… it’s a slow road but it’s better than the waist of doing the president bullshit.
TheHatTrick@reddit
We would be competitive, in any system where the game isn't rigged.
The change is to move to approval voting if possible, or Instant Runoff Voting at least, if not.
The two-party system is a mechanical consequence of first past the post voting.
Duverger's law, yo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
Beyond that:
Focus on understanding the idea of a "commons problem", and refining our policies to acknowledge harm that effects the public as a cohort and not just individual crimes.
We are all victims when someone pollutes a river. We are all victims when an employer is permitted to suppress union organizing. We are all victims when a major corporation is given a bailout rather than being permitted to fail.
Stop treating these like things that aren't "Harm".
Any smart person is going to realize that unfettered corporatocracy is just a worse version of what we have now, and lots of Libertarian rhetoric strays dangerously close to "the Koch brothers and Palantir should be allowed to do whatever they want to you, and you should shut up and take it.".
TorturedChaos@reddit
Too many Libertarians would rather live in a perfect ancapistan in their heads then work towards improvements in the real worlds.
We are not going to get everything we want overnight, or even in a few years. You can't convince a majority of the population to make radical changes overnight.
We need to take a page out of the left's playbook and celebrate the small victories. Steadily work towards Libertarian ideals. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater because we didn't get everything we wanted.
Also - as much as I'm for live and let live, being the party of "leave me alone and I will leave you alone" hasn't worked so well for us. Libertarians need to more actively push back against politicians, laws and regulations that remove our liberty.
Sea_Journalist_3615@reddit
Make it as radical as possible. No one cares about republican/democrat lite. In fact it's pointless. It needs to be a rally place for the radicals.
the_Jockstrap@reddit
NeoWayland@reddit
Libertarians can not realistically offer a “better” way of being governed. That’s pretty much antithetical to liberty and classic liberalism.
Me, I want less government than absolutely necessary.
SaltAgent0@reddit
Support whatever candidate shows the most promise for reducing government control. They won’t run as a libertarian. They need the party money. They will run. More extreme to get nominated but if you get to know them you can tell who beloved government is the problem vs. govt is the answer.
Samwill226@reddit
I'd forge ahead that we're a constitutional party before anything. We pass just about everything through the "what does the constitution say?" filter. Makes life easy. I think people want less complicated politics right now.
Gotta pull away from the Rand Paul connection and you need to win local elections with good candidates who aren't out of left field trying to shock voters with the more non mainstream views we may have like legalizing drugs
PlsStopAndThinkFirst@reddit
I would lie to them all and tell them what they want to hear, just like the uni-party does it
BringBackUsenet@reddit
Playing the political game is idiotic waste of time but if they want to be taken seriously by the voting sheeple, the only way would really be to get some big names to defect from the Big 2, instead of the circus freaks they have now.
The bad part about that is it will probably destroy the party in the process as they drag in non-libertarian values.
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