Prepping for the worst case scenario - how far do I go?
Posted by skillet-unbundle-815@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 107 comments
Hello fellow preppers!
This is my first post, and hope you don't mind that it's a long one. Been mulling over this for some time...
In my region (west coast of Canada), the worst case scenario, IMO, would be a severe earthquake in winter, with gas, electricity, water knocked out for weeks or months, and the possibility my home won’t be sound enough to “bug in”.
I’ve prepped enough so my family (2 adults + 2 young adults) can bug in for about 2 weeks. I'd like to level up for longer term self-sufficiency and be prepared for worst case scenarios, but I'm finding it overwhelming.
Should an earthquake in the middle of a freezing winter occur, most of my prep will be difficult to take with me (e.g. my stored water supplies and food). Even if my house is habitable, prepping to bug in for freezing temperatures feels so onerous.
I feel like I've hit a wall and would really appreciate advice on these sticking points:
1. How far should I go with prepping for the worst case scenario?
My family already thinks I've gone a little too far with the relatively limited amount of prep I've done. It's hard for me to justify putting more time, effort and money into prepping for a scenario that may never happen in our lifetimes.
2. Is it realistic/sustainable to prep for more than a couple weeks?
We live in a small townhouse. There's only so many storage areas to fit emergency supplies. Our 2 weeks' worth of supplies has already filled up all the nooks and crannies, so I’m stuffing supplies in our bedrooms and living areas. The family is NOT thrilled!
3. Supporting extended family members who are resistant to emergency prep
My extended family think my level of prep is completely ridiculous. Many are sticking their head in the sand, too overwhelmed to do any prep beyond having some extra food in the pantry. One even said to me "I'll just get stuff from you if things ever get bad"!!
Years ago, I sent an email to everyone with very basic ideas they shouldn't find too onerous. They all expressed appreciation, but no one has taken any action. I want to avoid having to share my precious supplies with my large extended family. Is there anything else I can do to support them other than doing the prep for them??
TwiLuv@reddit
Are you permanently stuck in the townhome? That’s your biggest problem imo. 1. Too many adjoining structures (& are they built to withstand earthquakes like California homes?) 2. Storage space is already maxed out 3. “Easily accessible” to non-prepping family members to appropriate for themselves the supplies you have accumulated for yourself, spouse, & kids. If you are part of the Cascadia subduction zone, aren’t tsunamis also a possibility (friend is long term resident of Vancouver Island)? GOOD LUCK
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
This townhouse is meant to be our forever home and it's what we can afford, so we have to make it work. I consider myself lucky as is. I always wonder how people living in condo towers and smaller apartment buildings can prep at all.
This home was built in the 90s, so apparently the building code was updated during that era to higher seismic standards. We have an unfinished basement so I can see that the frame is bolted to the foundation. But I need to bring in a contractor to look at our pony walls. I don't think those are reinforced in any way. That's the next big prep I've been saving up for: to retrofit our home.
I'm far enough away from the coast that my neighborhood isn't at risk from the tsunami. But my community is built on swampy soil, so there's a risk of liquefaction here.
Brudegan@reddit
I always wonder how people complain about not having enough space for preps. I live in a 40m² apartment and have around 2-3 month full preps with around 6 months food reserves. 4 weeks preps for a family of 4 shoudnt require that much space to make it impossible.
IRaBN@reddit
I am on the East Coast and my prep includes how to survive a mega tsunami. Air tight seal on 2 person capsule and 6 hours of spare air (so far) with 2 years food non-rationing per person.
NotAmusedDad@reddit
I'm fairly well prepped, for most any possibility. I think the biggest thing that you have to remember is balancing probability, versus impact. So a low impact high probability event, like having a blackout for a couple of hours might not be a big priority if you don't get around to prepping for it specifically, whereas a low probability high impact event like a CME may require a lot more thought.
The most important thing, though, is not to let thoughts about what life may be like in the future under those event, from adversely impacting your life today. Just like anything else, it is easy to get in over your head, spend time and money. You don't have, divert attention away from the same family you are trying to protect, and if it starts getting to that point you need to back off and pace yourself.
That said, I would make a list of what is most likely to happen, and focus on one of those at a time, with an eye on preps could benefit you in multiple scenarios. I would also not lose track of the importance of sustainability. Getting a solar panel and battery charger may be more appropriate than putting aside lamp oil for lighting, as would putting aside seeds and garden supplies rather than a fifth year of food storage. In general, my practice is to assume I will have to be entirely independent for 1 to 22 years, and after that either things will be back to normal, or I'm going to have to start rebuilding society, and my preps reflect that.
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
1. How far should I go with prepping for the worst case scenario?
Unfortunately, there is literally no limit as to the "worst case scenario" might be. Theres a lot of things that could technically happen that you just don't have the ability or resources to prepare for. You just need to decide what is pragmatic and draw a line somewhere. I also want to stress this does not mean just giving up, it just means you are limiting your prepping at some point. For example if you keep enough food on hand for 2 weeks that does not mean after two weeks you starve and die it just means that you will have to sort something else out for what happens after two weeks. Maybe that means evacuating or going to the government shelter or whatever but it's not the end. In many cases I like to think of prepping more about comfort in the sense it allows you to avoid problems, maintain a bit of normality, and find relief from stress you would have otherwise faced during tough times rather than actual life and death.
2. Is it realistic/sustainable to prep for more than a couple weeks?
Realistically not for most people in the developed world unless you could point to a very specific concern. I mean if you were in the remote wilderness in a research lab up in the arctic circle where supply ships only come once every 6 months ok sure but for most people disasters are very short term in nature and very localized. Long term supplies necessary for survival are almost certainly not really needed as while there may be short term disruptions in your local area the rest of the world more or less continues to exist and supplies will be be brought in as soon as is possible. If two weeks go by and you still can't get gas and groceries because things are so screwed up it's probably time to leave anyways.
3. Supporting extended family members who are resistant to emergency prep
This is always a very difficult conversation. As much as I know you would love to support all those you love and care about unfortunately you have a limit as to what you can do and you need to know where that limit is. As you've described it, it sounds like you have already exceeded the capacity of stuff you can store at home and it's starting to adversely affect you and your family. As much as you might like to you just cannot continue to sacrifice your own comfort and well being on the chance that something might happen that you could potentially help with with. There's a good chance nothing major will ever happen or if something does happen it will not rise to the level of seriousness that they are reliant on stockpiled supplies for survival. I mean you've likely been alive a long time at this point and you've likely never had a multi month emergency where you were living on canned food. Theres a good chance the rest of your life will be the same. Of course even if something cataclysmic does happen you have to accept you cannot save the world again as much as you might like to. Your dealing with adults and they have to take some responsibility here. Everyone has the freedom to make choices in life but the freedom to make choices also means you may chose poorly and you do not get to chose the consequences of your choices.
fenuxjde@reddit
Rather than try to prep by storing things, retrain your brain to think of things that are more sustainable. Can't store tons of food? How about some indoor planters and solar powered grow lights? Can't stock water? Maybe get some life straws or other good filters and identify a local source.
Prepping isn't as much about stockpiling as it is about a state of mind.
eflask@reddit
for me it's less about stockpiling and more about acquiring skills.
sure, first aid supplies are dandy, but if you don't know HOW to set a traction splint your case of supplies isn't going to do jack for you.
likewise, it's a good idea to be in community with people. my neighbors and I have had some serious discussions on who can forage and who can garden and who raises chickens and who can hunt.
you can be armed to the teeth and be a crack shot, but there's only so many hours you can go it alone before you WILL sleep.
if you are in community with people you're not going to have to stay completely dark at night or be so careful about cooking smells.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Your last line really hit me. My focus has been all about stockpiling. I'll try to retrain my brain for sure.
Pylyp23@reddit
I agree with the life straws but solar powered grow lights and indoor planters is ridiculous. A weeks supply of food would take up the same amount of space and be infinitely more valuable. You are never going to get any calories out of that setup unless you are using it before shtf and even that is going to be MAYBE a tenth of the calories that an equal amount of freeze dried/canned food in the same space would provide. Solar lights and indoor boxes are a complete waste of money and space in a townhouse.
fenuxjde@reddit
It's about supplementing, not replacing. If I can have six planters hanging outside my townhouse windows and four large pots on my balcony that take no additional space, but provide nutrient dense and fibrous vegetation, it's a perpetual food source, not one that is meant to take the place of a weeks source. Now that week supply you have in your closet lasts ten days. Make what you have last longer, that's the point.
Pylyp23@reddit
Anywhere you can hang planters you can hang boxes/bags of more nutrient dense food. Unless you have land for real agriculture planters are never going to be better than stored food.
Colonel_Penguin_@reddit
You are prepping for your worst case being dealing with the fallout of an earthquake in winter and have enough supplies to comfortably bug in for 2 weeks. How long do you think it would be before emergency responders were able to get to you? I would personally prep for this length of time plus a 2 week buffer in your scenario as phase 1. Phase 2 would be to have the financials prepped and insurance coverage so you can go rent a home, stay in a hotel, etc. in a worst case scenario and not try to make a hard situation harder by staying put.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Thing is, I have no clue how long emergency responders would take to get to us. We live in a suburb, but it is quite densely populated, so it's essentially an urban environment. My understanding is that a super quake will leave the roads impassable. There will be large sinkholes, downed poles and wires, debris everywhere. I'd like to think that 2 weeks is enough of a buffer for help to arrive?
I've got your "Phase 2" covered at least. That was where I started my prepping from - making sure I had the money and insurance part taken care of. Just don't know how hard it will be to get me and the family far enough out of the quake zone to find any habitable hotels, let alone one that will have room for us.
Garmin211@reddit
Depends on the road. I'm guessing you live in Vancouver. Sink holes shouldn't be a problem because Vancouver isn't a Karst landscape. Some roads may be impassable, but they should generally be clear, especially in the suburbs building tend to collapse straight down pancake style during an Earthquake. Not much should fall to block roads. Bridges will be a big problem as many would collapse and the few open out be choke point, as well as gas fires. Help should arrive quickly, while Earthquakes are horrifically devastating events, among the worst nature can produce once you survive the first few minutes it is very very unlikely that you die, once news gets out which in our day and age is literally immediately, help will be mobilized and relief efforts brought in. Infact I'd recommend having things to help people out of collapsed buildings, Pry bars, shovels, chainsaws stuff like that, and to begin relief efforts immediately if you yourself aren't injured and none of your family is hurt. TIme is of the essence when it comes to saving people trapped in collapsed buildings.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
It's up to you. I know some people who find it odd to keep three days of food in their house as they can always pick up more,
You do know that if people know your lifestyle and where you live, their plan even if they do not know it now, is to turn up at yours and odds are they will or more likely have been telling all their friend and just random people as well.
How many of us have heard people say "If XXX happens I'm coming to your house"?
https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/08/lessons-learned-from-hurricanes-katrina.html
This is a true story from Hurricanes Katrina where the poster invited two families maybe a max of six or seven people and they turned up with around 40 others. They all expected to be fed, and many of them wanted cash from the poster [which they got] and firearms to take home with them at the end which luckily was only around a week later. Now that was 20 years ago, but if something happens in the next few days where do you think they are all going to go, and how many people have they told about it in the last 20 years?
There is a book (and film) called The Death of Grass [AKA No Blade of Grass] by John Christopher where all the grass in the world dies, that's all of corn/wheat/rice dying off in a few days. The main character [the "hero" of the book] and his family get an invite to his brother's farm where he can still grow some food. They make their way across England which is descending into anarchy, and along the way he seems to just invite everyone he meets, so the three people with the invite turn out to be around 100 people. This sadly is not far from the truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Grass
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
OK, this is making me paranoid. I do not want to be shining a big beacon on my home and supplies. Maybe it's time I start shutting up about all the prepping I'm doing?
Lancifer1979@reddit
First rule about prep club: we don’t talk about prep club
last_rights@reddit
If you talk about prep club, it's anonymously or with other people who have also prepped, but never in detail.
GigabitISDN@reddit
The most I'll ever say to anyone beyond my immediate family is "yeah, I keep a little extra food in the house, never know when a snowstorm is going to shut us in for 72 hours". If the person is also a prepper, they'll know exactly what I'm saying. If they aren't, then maybe it sparks an idea that they too should have a few extra days of supplies on hand.
If everyone in the US had an extra 3 days of food and water on hand, we'd all be a lot better off.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
It's a crazy world where most people do not keep 3 days of food at all times in their home. Some years ago I worked with a man who was going on about how he would have to go shopping after work. I said to him "Well put it off for a day or two" It turns out he could not do this as for his family of three they did not have food for one meal for one of them in the house. I've now learned this is common.
TexasRadical83@reddit
I'm not a prepper really, but the 2021 snow storm here in Texas taught me to keep some water and shelf stable food for about a week on hand.
last_rights@reddit
If I need to put off shopping for a week, then I'm just concerned about protein. I have frozen veggies, usually some meat in the freezer that I have to thaw, but plenty of grains. I'm a reasonably good cook that I can make something out of anything I have on hand, even if it ends up being a pasta salad or a rice bowl.
With the cost of meat recently I've been trying to stock up when it's on sale.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
Protein can be beans, dried or in tins add rice for even more protein.
last_rights@reddit
Yeah, I have a lot of rice and beans. But the only problem I have is when it's gotten late and I haven't planned for dinner yet.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
They do some good bean/rice microwave in the bag meals, they don't have a great date but it's a few years and they cook fast even if it's in a pan or eat them cold.
Beertruck85@reddit
Also why i like freeze dried foods...you just need water. No smoke at all to signal everyone in the area you might have food. I live in a major hurricane area and when Ivan came through any smoke made people come and investigate. The military issued MREs and my dad at the time managed a restaurant, so when the power died the entire commissary was donated to the neighborhood, that kept everyone peaceful for the two weeks the power and water was out. Id hate to think what 4 weeks would have done.
Dubbertime@reddit
Been trying to find this book but my library does not carry it! Is it well written?
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
I'm a fan of all his work but to be fair in most of his books unlike this one they all seem to have a happy ending. They are a good read but you will learn nothng. He and John Wyndham were famous for writing what are often called “cozy catastrophies”
You can pickup a second hand copy on the internet. If you look on Google for The Death of Grass PDF or under US title No Blade of Grass PDF you can find it and none of his books are long.
As for the film it's about 90 mins long and I got a copy, lets put it this way that's four hours I'll not get back. It does stick to the book but it's a book that should not have been filmed. It's not a bad film it just not a good film.
Dubbertime@reddit
Thanks for the response. The premise of the book has always sounded really interesting, I’ll add it to the list down the line.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
Take a look on YT under both names for the radio plays of it.
Not-a-Cranky-Panda@reddit
Even thirty years ago keeping a three or four weeks food n the cupboard was just having a pantry. Now even two weeks food in your home is for some unknown reason classed as being odd and somewhat dangerous.
It's crazy how fast people have forgotten COVID.
last_rights@reddit
Not prepper me has minimum two weeks of food in the pantry. I like to cook, I don't have a meal plan, so I buy things I use regularly when they're on sale and keep them in the pantry.
Prepper me is much more prepared and is more concerned with easy calories.
PeterRuf@reddit
Your prepping should focus on things you use anyway. It's easier to justify buying extra pasta and rotating then stuffing your house with military rations. I would get a hot tent in case of structure damage to your house.
I would assume that if you are stuffing your house, you might gone to far. Check what you have. Rotate some stuff. Make shure your prepping is not your personality. Although it's easier to prep for one person, you will get lonely.
Mysterious_Touch_454@reddit
Im from Finland, ive endured 2 weeks without electricity and cold, but i was able to travel to work and back with car. Ive also went to army where they teach winter survival. So combined experience from that.
So basically warmth, water, food and general shelter for safe sleeping is important.
We had tent, wooden stove and cold weather-sleeping bags (up to -30Celsius). Since there was snow, water was available, just dont take yellow snow. Food was just emergency rations, which are good in army, but can be better when you can choose yourself.
Tea + sugar (real sugar, F those sweeteners), hard bread and cookies/crakcers, chokolade, salted nuts, tunacans.
Basically anything that you can eat every day for months and doesnt require heating or much preparing.
You can keep it simple, since it is survival situation. You dont need lots of different tools, just good ones.
If you have very good sleeping bags, you dont need even fire. But i would prep with massive amount of blankets also. Like 4 blankets per person, can be fleece, or better material.
OnlyTimeFan@reddit
Yeah, the official emergency response for earthquake in my city states 3 weeks before major disaster relief possible due to major highways being destroyed. Primary concern would be water, I don’t think most people stock enough water due to how much space it takes up. The 5 gallon water jug racks on Amazon save a lot of space and you regularly cycle through fresh water.
A few propane tanks + indoor propane heater + propane stove. Butane stove and butane fuel cans.
Tools and construction materials for temporary repairs due to earthquake. Contractors are going to be extremely expensive.
PPE to prevent additional injuries post disaster recovery.
Build a good first aid kit. For likely injuries sustained during and post disaster.
Portable battery banks and solar panels to charge them.
That’s the bare minimum every household should have. You might be a little hungry but you’d die of dehydration well before starvation. Should be a reasonable amount of canned food in your pantry already.
I hate the “I’ll just show up at your house” shit. You can always buy Aesop’s The Ant and the Grasshopper fable for anyone the shows up to your door. The original ending one.
DogsAreOurFriends@reddit
Remember, none of us are getting off this planet alive.
Plan accordingly.
Weird-Grocery6931@reddit
When you say "West Coast" how far are you from the actual coast? What is the projected epicenter of the quake and are you in the tsunami zone?
If you are in the tsunami zone, all of your bug-in prepping may be for nothing.
One of the deficiencies I've noticed with many preppers is a lack of understanding of disaster second and third order effects of a disaster. The best prep is not to be there. The second best prep is early avoidance from heeding the signs.
With earth quakes there are often precursor quakes; are you monitoring you area for minor quakes increasing in frequency and intensity. You may want to "deep dive" into earthquakes and learn as much as you can.
Something else you may want to do is identify all the threats and hazards that could affect you and rate them in order from "most likely" to "most dangerous". Once you have established that list, then you can figure out "how much" is enough.
I think you're bigger issue is "where". If you're set on living where you are, then you're going to need to develop "branch" plans and "sequel" plans.
Branch plans are contingency plans for specific things happening i.e. response to tsunami after earthquake, response to firestorm after earthquake, response to looters after earthquake.
Sequel plans are "what's next" plans, i.e. Earthquake happens and you bug-in for two weeks, after two weeks you load up the family and move to site B where you have supplies (you will need branch plans for this sequel plan based on time of year) and you implement your long-term survival plan.
When making sequel and branch plans they don't need to be detailed plans initially but a response framework in case it happens before you fully develop your plan.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
You are preparing for a problem that will almost certainly never exist. If that is fun for you, then go with it, but try not to be a burden to your loved ones.
No_Space_for_life@reddit
Why would those scenarios never exist?, Vancouver/ BC west coast has absolutely frozen in for over 2 weeks, they've had ice storms take out local power grids and most their power comes from dams which have shut down in the past due to extreme weather.
In early 2022 a massive land slide took out the only mountain pass into lower mainland BC and left it nearly inaccessible because simultaneously a major flood flooded 2/3 of the major boarder crossings as well as all the availible farm land in the area, making access impossible and food supplies dwindled to nearly nothing in two weeks.
They've called for a major earthquake for decades now, one that's over due for 20 years, the chance is still low, but not zero. Additionally forest fires are very common in that region so the need to bug in or out is not unrealistic at all.
Im curious where and why you think these scenarios "would almost mever happen" since all the above including several earthquakes (none to the scale predicted admittedly) have absolutely happened multiple times in my life time and im 30
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
In a modern, developed nation. All utilities out for weeks+, and no help arrives? Sure. I bet that happens all the time.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Halloween blizzard of 2012 knocked out power, took down trees and blocked roads, and water pipes froze for a substantial portion of the northeastern seaboard, some areas for 2+ weeks.
And you think that now, with FEMA having cut a billion in funding earlier this summer for preemptive community & first responder training, that things are going to be better than they were even back then?
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
OP is in Canada, but fair points. Sometimes I forget how bad conservatives screwed up the US.
No_Space_for_life@reddit
You think that we Canadians have it better? Bud the Liberal Government has gutted every forest management program, disaster relief program and SAR program they could over the last decade, then tossed the responsibility onto the Provinces to provide, then turned around and jacked up taxes and equalization payments to Ottawa from the provinces so most dont have any realistic rescue/ recovery programs in place. My city just got approved for a SAR team and its entirely volunteer with a 20k annual budget.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
Yuck. Sounds like you should *checks notes* do some of the stuff you are doing.
Background-Bottle268@reddit
Washington and Oregon expect we could be without power 3 months when the big earthquake hits. I don’t think this is an unreasonable worst case scenario or a bad ultimate goal.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
Would you really want to stay there for 3 months, or would you want to go someplace with utilities?
Background-Bottle268@reddit
Depends on the roads? It may not be possible to leave for a while.
revision@reddit
Uhhhh...I don't know if this is sarcastic or not.
RossCollinsRDT@reddit
Must be sarcasm, they're replying bug out to everyone arguing. I thought the point of prepping was to have options.
No_Space_for_life@reddit
It does yes. Check out some current events from time to time. Up here forest fires alone have people displaced and/or without utilities for months very regularly.
During the flood in BC we personally had no power for 9 weeks.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
And rather than go someplace with power, you just kind of hung out?
No_Space_for_life@reddit
Yes, what part of major flood made it seem like one could simply go to a location with power? The entire region was without power for several weeks and it took a ridiculous amount of time for crews to be able to coordinate rescues for trapped individuals.
My location was untouched directly from the floods, but power and utilities were out for weeks. Grocery stores were empty or close to in about 2 weeks and even resulted in a few knife fights over shit like milk as the unprepared faught over stupid things.
Weird that you think someone can simply go somewhere with power like thats a blanket option. At this point I genuenly think youre just a D grade troll tbh.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
If you can't travel, then you are a shitty prepper.
No_Space_for_life@reddit
Genuenly hilarious coming from the guy who thinks a power outage or earthquake are "extremely unlikely events".
RossCollinsRDT@reddit
Sarcasm? Hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes knock out power for weeks somewhere every year.
Electrical-Berry4916@reddit
But when that happens people don't just sit around and mope. They leave.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
While I agree that this is a problem that could possibly not happen in my or my kids' lifetimes, there's also a good chance it will. Officials in my province have long warned that we are due for a super quake.
There's a whole podcast done by a local seismologist about it: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/147-fault-lines. There's been articles written about it such as this one from The New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-really-big-one (sorry - it's now behind a paywall).
Several years ago, I watched this excellent video from PBS centered in Oregon: https://www.pbs.org/video/oregon-field-guide-unprepared-oregon-field-guide-special/. That video was really eye opening.
I also researched the 2011 Christchurch earthquake. Local reporters and experts here always refer to that earthquake due the the similarities between our region and theirs. We know for a fact, even today (14 years later), there are parts of Christchurch that still have not been rebuilt.
Prepping isn't fun for me. Not in the least. It causes me more grief than anything. I do it largely to be a good citizen, to do my part to protect myself and my family and not have to unnecessarily draw on what will be limited govt resources.
nakedonmygoat@reddit
While I realize you can't give an exhaustive list of your current prep, here are some thoughts I've had.
Do you have mylar emergency blankets ("space blankets") and a tent? Mylar blankets are cheap and take up hardly any space. You can pitch a tent in whatever remains in your house and stay warm. You can also take the family camping in summer, making it look less like a recreational item, rather than survival.
What's your strategy if gas lines are broken but before the gas disperses? You and none of your neighbors will be able to light a fire of any kind. Do you have glow sticks? Do you have enough to share so your neighbors don't burn their and your house down? Do you have rechargeable LED light bulbs? Glow sticks are small and easily stored. The light bulbs can be used like any other light bulb, but will stay on when the power is out. Do you have headlamps for each family member? I find uses for mine even when the power ISN'T out.
Assuming it's safe to light a fire, how will you heat your food? A portable butane stove is cheap and about the size of an old-fashioned briefcase. Get a utility lighter with a long stem. Be sure to use it in a well-ventilated area.
What's your sanitation strategy? Camp toilets can be as cheap and basic as a toilet seat on a 5-gallon bucket lined with a plastic bag, all the way up to rock star fancy. But the cheap kind can be disguised as an ordinary utility bucket, and the seat can be slotted into a small space, minimizing pushback from family.
Do you have a camping grade water purifier? Let's say it's not The Big One and you still have water, but you're under a boil water notice. Wouldn't it be nicer to have a water purifier?
Do you have an emergency/weather radio?
What have you prepped for morale? Books, cards, board games, and puzzles are staples, but I also have a dedicated DVD player with a screen, and some DVDs of funny old movies and sitcoms. Once again, these aren't things that take up a lot of space if you don't go crazy with it.
A lot of your prep will serve multiple purposes. My power went out for six hours in September and my internet went out for the better part of three days in October, and I hadn't even experienced a natural disaster. But my prep has served me very well through two hurricanes. Prior to the first one, my husband thought I was crazy. Afterwards, he was fully on board.
The first time your prep proves useful, OP, your family will be converts. So hang in there!
Acceptable_Net_9545@reddit
please share with the group why you would prep for anything less than completely? maybe I don't understand the question.....why prep for half or 50% vs 100% Its this like wearing your seat belt helf the time?? paying your insurance every other year???
WhereDidAllTheSnowGo@reddit
Retirement, car breaking, fridge dying, and other Tuesday events are far more likely
Get those covered first
WhereDidAllTheSnowGo@reddit
Plan for 2 weeks
Have very good relationships with family or friends who are far away, folks that mutually could live together for awhile
Have a good emergency fund
SonsOfValhallaGaming@reddit
My wife thought I was ''taking things too far'' too, not once, but TWICE. We were living in Joplin back in the day when that big old wedge tornado F5 hit, and we thankfully were okay because we had a storm shelter and were located uphill from where the floods hit, but the damn thing hit so suddenly honestly it was just gut instinct that got me grabbing her and running into the cellar, and she thought I was being asinine until we came back up after several minutes of what sounded like a muffled train overhead, and we saw everything, and I mean everything, ripped off the face of the earth for damn near a mile in every direction.
Then it happened again, ironically mere hours after my wife said something along the lines of ''that thing with the tornado was a one time thing, and we're in Texas what could possibly happen?" and next thing you know power is off, and we're hearing about how extensive the outage is and how the blizzard is hitting in full force and I kind of remember just looking at her like ''you just had to open yer trap didnt ya'' but we were the only ones with power and on day three we were able to bug out using rail tracks as our road to avoid cars and blockades, managed to get out of the snow zone enough to hit asphalt again and go up north with some friends.
Point is, the entire concept of prepping is based on the singular premise that everyone, including your own loved ones, are going to be underprepared for the IF and especially the WHEN, and you...won't. If storage is an issue, and that's causing traction at home, maybe looking into alternative means of storage might be handy. This could be a self storage nearby, buried goods, keeping it all at a secondary location, whatever works for you that is both easy to access in emergencies AND not causing issues at home. I got an entire closet full to the brim of storage containers full of preserved foods, water filtration tablets, batteries, medicines, tape, cordage, lighters , fire starting materials, ammunition, you name it. Has it been a topic of debate in our household? Only every time we need to move something from there lol. Has it come in handy more than once? Only when something nobody saw coming suddenly came and I'm sitting there shaking my head cuz my neighbor is panicking over a boil order on the news while I'm starting a fire using pine pitch and fucking dryer lint.
Remember, in the end times, your ''irrational BS'' will be suddenly called ''timeless wisdom''. Also, never share how well prepped you are to people you don't want knocking on your door come Tuesday or Doomsday.
avalon01@reddit
There is only so much I'm will to prep for.
I know I will experience power outages, severe weather, and winter storms. Power usually only goes out for a few hours - if that - so I prepare for a full week. That's far more than I've ever needed in the 60+ times I've circled the sun.
When was the last time a earthquake of that magnitude hit? If it's been hundreds or thousands of years, you'll be long dead before that happens again. You'll have managed to piss off your wife, kids, and extended family for nothing.
My preps fit in a few containers. What are you storing? I have some freeze dried food, some canned goods, and two water filters. Again, I'm prepping for a week, not months or years.
Brudegan@reddit
The more family members you have the more space you require because only some stuff you need only once. Especially water is a problem since theres no concentrated version of like with food.
And relying only on water filter is...lets say questionable because there are several scenario where you will have problems finding water that you can make drinkable with normal methods.
Thats why i always suggest to others to have liquids that you can drink (including water) for at least for 2 weeks. It gives you time to find more water that you can make drinkable. In addition it doesnt require you to "forage" from day one for water when there might be a situation where you dont want to leave your shelter.
EnvironmentalKey3858@reddit
If you're legitimately worried about "the big one" the only even remotely intellectual course of action is move elsewhere.
The rest is cope.
AlphaDisconnect@reddit
I would reccomend against moving. You are now exposed. Any one injury. One mistake. One broken tent rod. One sickness. You are stuck.
In your scenario. Get a vhf ham radio operator license. Borrow one person from the ham class. Learn how to talk to anything you can reach. See how far you can reach. Maybe a bigger antenna. Mobile base station so you can hump it up a big hill. The M.A.R.S. in America kind of falls into this. People you can call who are ex military and have a plan to set up coms.
Also starlink is a thing. But draws 100 watts. Some cell phone things can get tied up for their satellite emergency calls.
In your scenario. Call in the calvery. Helicopters will arrive. Probably ones from america too. Maybe even japan. Roads may be closed. No utilities. Sounds like you have food and water. Find the least destroyed structure or structures.
Now invite friends. Explain the plan. You hide in a room and share warmth. Fun. Food. Water. This is what I call a buggy frigging party. Now you can have a person on watch 24/7.
You do not want to be 20km thick into the woods and see the calvery flying to where you were. Don't be a one man army. Call your friends, family and neighbors.
Floods and wildfire... well yes get out. Sitting exposed... sounds like very wet or very burnt lungs.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
This opens up a whole other can of worms. I've yet to think through my bug out plan or prep for it in any way. I copied and pasted your ideas under my bug out notes to revisit (e.g. ham radio).
AlphaDisconnect@reddit
I am telling you. A Pelican case. Fairly big one. Get that cert. Some friends. Straight antenna and get it higher. Or a yagi antenna but that is very directional. You will need a compass and to try the friends you know are around.
Load up the crew. Someone locally probably has skills and things you dont. And dont forget. Eat. Drink. Be merry. The watch. They are not there for marauder hordes. Well maybe. Can at least call out to someone over here, two inbound, one injured. One uninjured. Got sick? Done. Injured. Treated. But when the pata pata of helicopters. Light the beacons. Summon Minas Tirith. Tech needed. Flare gun. Ok. A huge pile of flammable... whatever soaked in. Kerosene or deisel. Add something so it puts up black smoke. Box of road flares should get that tinger pile going. They will see that way out. Might still fly over you. But you have been marked. You will not be there for 2 weeks.
Remember your water purification. Boil it. Bleach 1/8 teaspoon per gallon. Let stand probably 15 minutes. Sorry we will measure things in bullets per bacon before we will use li... lit... see? Can't do it... here.
Homely_Bonfire@reddit
1) Community is part of prepping
You are not billionaire so you won't be prepping for everything by yourself, nor do you need to. You might want to consider becoming part of a community/group/club/association that is thinking the same way as you do. Such a group could in theory prepare a bug out location in a lower risk region that is accessible to you, they could prepare gear an teams for extraction in case of a SHTF events and/or alternative supply lines.
Its worth looking for people in your area who can prepp together or to organize such a community yourself.
2) It's possible to prepp for longer, but all preparations are made under certain assumptions
For example prepping water supply at some point wont be done through stacking bottles but by building capacities to collect and purify water in the most common forms available to you. You can stack extremely durable energy bars worth months of calories, but you can also invest in building capabilities and skills for growing your own food.
3) You are not the savior of the world
If you insist of involving more people than are willing to build resilience you are putting the entire group at risk. You may find that you are able to prepp for your immediate family of four, but alone you may not be skilled and affluent enough to prepare adequate shelter and supply for lets say 2 step parents, your parents, your siblings and their family, your best friend + his family etc.
If they all know you are prepared when SHTF and they all arrive at your door, this will cause allocation battles. And most people wont be able to look their parents in the eye and say they have no food for them. This is bitter, sure, but if you seriously think there is a scenario that calls for survival preperations these are factors to consider. If someone is unwilling to prepare, they don't need to know that you have resources they could steal. And people will go quite far if it means they will survive.
Beertruck85@reddit
As far as your comfortable going within reason. A major disaster is far less likely to happen then needing a retirement account later in life. So there needs to be balance. However, theres absolutely nothing crazy about wanting 2 to 6 weeks of food, medicine and water on hand. (Ill get to that in a minute).
What I settled on was Mountain House dehydrated food and water filters. I use Sawyer pumps, in my case theres no shortage of rain water and retention ponds around me and storing filters that last 10s of thousands and 100s of thousands of gallons takes up almost no space and as amazing as it is to have hundreds of gallons on hand at all times i dont have the space for it or the time to rotate it out, also the pump weighs almost nothing and a gallon of water weighs 8.3lbs. And Mountain House also takes up almost no space and actually taste really good, they also store for over 30 years so theres no rush to rotate them out. I find them tasty and very useful for hiking, camping and hunting. I put them in a very wide but short clothing bag designed for under the bed and those dehydrated meals pack away nicely there. I have 30 days supply for my family of 3 under there and it takes up half the space under a queen size mattress.
Man....the family and friends....thats a tough one. Your best bet is bugging in, on the road youre just a refugee, atleast in your home you have shelter from the elements (which is massive...shelter is everything outside and the first thing they tell us to do in the Marines). You know your area, and you know people...thats a huge piece of intel you'll be missing if you bug out. You'd then have to worry about friends or family wanting your help when you have limited supplies, and they could have prepped. In that case you already know the answer, it has to be "no". The best you can do for them is warn them when you think it might get bad and hope they listen.
To me...its a weird existence not having more than 3 days of food at home....and I had hoped Covid 19 and the shortages it caused would have woken people up....but atleast here in North America it doesnt seem to have stuck.
And as far as you feeling pressure about prepping from your immediate family, if it gets to a point where youre not comfortable getting more supplies then really focus on your health. Make sure youre fit enough to hike for miles...best case scenario you never need to, but you'll be healthier for it and way ahead of the vast majority of people and preppers who forget fitness.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Agree about the retirement account (already set up) and the need for balance. Needing help on figuring out that balance!
I'm envious of your abundant water sources. Don't have that in the suburban community I live in. The stored water is what's taking up the most room in our home, even though we only have about a week's worth. I have a mix of Mtn House, Nutristore and Augason freeze dried food mostly in #10 cans.
Wide but short clothing bags would be a perfect solution for some of my supplies. Will look into that.
Feels heartless to say no to the fam, but if I give them a heads up now that they can't expect help from me when SHTF, I can live with that. They got fair warning.
Excellent tip to up our fitness levels too.
Advendocture@reddit
Also you don't want to stockpile what you don't use, consider instead keeping your pantry very stocked and rotating your food, then doesn't look like prep, just a well stocked kitchen.
taylormac970@reddit
You answered your own question: store stuff at extended families houses. You can’t prepare them, but you can supply them. If you get your rocks off by stockpiling things, do it for other people too. It’s generous and mutually beneficial:
They’ll be more inclined to start prepping if you give them a kickstart.
You now have satellite caches all over whatever area you’re thinking of.
If everyone suddenly has to bug-in for some reason, they’re not traveling and knocking your door down to get food and water.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
As mentioned above, I definitely get no joy from stockpiling. It gives me some peace of mind, but I have not enjoyed this process. It has involved a lot of work, time and money. I do like this idea of stockpiling for other people and "satellite caches" though. BUT I'd do this selectively. I'm already thinking of which family members I'd be willing to be generous to, and who not to, he he.
OddUnderstanding6255@reddit
Some things you can do that are sustainable and helpful in normal life would be a huge help in many different prep scenarios. For your cold climate can you install a wood stove to help cut down on your electric or gas bill every year? It would also help you prep. I cut several cords of wood a year, have several years worth stored and ready to use.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Heating is the biggest problem I have yet to come up with a solution for, and what causes me the most anguish. A freezing home causes many problems. Wood stoves are being phased out here so that's a no-go, unfortunately. It would have been the most simple heating solution.
ContestNo2060@reddit
There’s preparedness overlap between your main winter earthquake concern and other possible disasters - both natural and manmade. Your preps may be useful for things like civil unrest, military invasion, or any number of things that could disrupt services or supply chain.
I started preparing in a small New York City apartment and it was challenging. The only way you’re going to fit everything in there is if the unit looks like a bunker. Your spouse is probably not going for that look.
You may need to form interdependent networks with other individuals and have an action plan ready. Perhaps have the basics for everything and have more for one specialty (not water, that can be bulky). Or if you have someone you trust who has more space, you might be able to reach an agreement to store your bulky items and plan to hole up there.
At least you are in a country where it seems like your leadership is interested in its own citizens well-being and a competent government goes a long way in city/state level emergency preparedness. Maybe you can find emergency preparedness plans and try to align your priorities and activities with them. I know NYC has volunteer groups that are activated in crisis and will be embedded with local response.
Yeah, cities are their own challenge.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
My hat goes off to you. Prepping in a NY apartment is quite the feat. I often worry about my neighbors who live in condos and apartments. How much prep can one do in a tiny space?
I considered setting up a neighborhood group to share earthquake preparedness tips and create a network of neighbors to help each other when SHTF. Then I realized that could make me the de facto neighborhood leader, not a role I feel capable or comfortable taking on.
I have family in a further out suburb with more space who I might trust to store some of my supplies. But how to get to them and my supplies when SHTF is the question.
I count myself lucky that this country's leadership is, for the most part, competent and caring. My local, provincial and federal govts all have websites with emergency prep info, which is great. But we all know they're definitely not prepared for The Big One. Hence why I consider it our worst case scenario.
Pando5280@reddit
Skill sets are important if bot more important than stuff. That said I move frequently so I limit my food preps to 6 weeks long term and six weeks short term. Water is one month on average. Ammo is short skirmish war not zombie apocalypse. I have a battery babk and solar panels plus a vehicle thats set up for 3-4 day banking trips which doubles as my evacuation vehicle. For anything more I plan to get an actual retreat and set up solar. End game is you can stock up for only so much and you have to be realistic or else its easy to get carried away. Personally Id do some camping trips with your family and focus on skilling up (medical skills, trade skills, range time etc) and then ease back into stocking up. I've known some folks that fell ibto the trap of "If buying one o this makes me safer buying 10 will make me 10x safer" and thats not always true. Plus it can freak out your family because its both a dark and paranoid road when you start thinking and planning for worst case scenarios. I just call it emergency preparedness instead of prepping and after you have two weeks of food and water youre in a better place than most. Again being realistic is key - what are your most realistic threats and what are your most likely outcomes? Only you can answer that. One last note is once someone indicates they arent interested in being part of your preparedness plans I tend to respect that and dont involve them in anything Im doing. Let them worry about themselves and just focus on you and your immediate family. (also important to note that Id rather have money in the bank than an extra box of ammo or green beans, especially if you have kids and the possibility of layoffs or unexpected bills)
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Lots of great advice here. Especially about how to handle the extended family. I'm going to back off and let them be. Also going to take your advice to take a pause on the stockpiling and pivot to skill building, at least for now. Holding on to the money vs spending on more supplies does give me more peace of mind.
Pando5280@reddit
Its a balancing act for sure. I buy in bulk as a habit for my staples and ammo as that saves money in the long run. Once my stock gets to a certain level I reorder so I never get below a certain level. Beyond that I feel better with good cardio and skill sets. As one of my fav sayings about nervous energy goes "put it towards the work." Personally I see more inflation and financial chaos on the horizon so I like having savings instead of stuff. Lastly, if youre townhouse living Id keep your preps on the down low as most folks are strangers and unless you have good relationships with them they will put their family ahead of yours. Personally I try and get to know gmthe folks around me because if things ever truly go south your neighbors are the ones next door to you. Keep it basic and just get to know them. Beyond that stay grounded and do what's best for you and yours in both the short and long term.
thomas533@reddit
The good news is that once you get north of Bellingham, the shaking intensity drops significantly. I don't know how far north you are, but once you get up into the Sunshine Coast area I expect very little damage to infrastructure.
That being said, being over prepared is not a bad idea. As far as water goes, you probably have access to a lot of streams and creeks so having the ability to filter or sanitize that water is critical. I have a gravity ceramic water filter with Doulton filters that can deal with any biological contamination except for viruses. If I'm worried about a viral outbreak then I have bleach I can use to sterilize water.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
My community is actually quite close to Bellingham so I'm expecting to experience quite intense shaking. But good to know that if we need to bug out, northwards is one direction to head.
No nearby streams and creeks in the suburban neighborhood I'm in, which is why I have stored water. I do have the Doulton water filter, though, in the hopes that I can collect snow and/or rain water.
ErinRedWolf@reddit
Remember that bleach starts to go bad (become ineffective) after about a year, and that’s if it is stored properly. I learned this recently.
SunLillyFairy@reddit
Does the property have a back yard? I recall after the last big round of big earthquakes in LA that folks were camping outside, especially because of aftershocks and fears of building instability. If so, I think I'd look into outdoor camping... some folks camp in freezing temps for fun and can keep family tents warm in winter with the right set-up. Even easier is an RV or camper van. That's where my mind goes. We have a AWD mini van... not the best solution for any length of time, but I know that if we needed shelter to stay warm (we also live in an area in the US states that gets deadly cold on some winter nights, and is close to the Cascadia fault line) - between the van and my gear (like -20f bags) we could get through it.
As far as "how far do I go?" I hear you and understand the ponder. Each person has to assess their risk, finances and comfort level to sort that out... and family dynamics do play a part. I can only tell you that after working disaster response for years, I think you're pondering in the right direction... what do I need to bug in, and what do I need if we need to get the heck out.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
We do have a small back yard. Tent camping in the winter wouldn't be sustainable for us, but I have been considering getting an old camper van as a "back up" shelter.
Thanks for the assurance that at least I'm going in the right direction. I think the family is due for a meeting to reassess how far we want to go with this.
saltyjello@reddit
Personally, I always wonder about drugs. A lot of important drugs are not shelf stable, so that’s a tough one unless you have good genes.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Me too. I got some of the basics, for pain relief, nausea, diarrhea. I hate rotating any emergency supplies with less than 5 yr shelf life though (don't have the time or the brain space to remember to do that). So I've accepted that the drugs in my stockpile may not be as potent when it comes time to use them.
RossCollinsRDT@reddit
Townhouse might have sealed up storage under the stairs. Sadly might be behind the toilet. You can cut the drywall in the hall and put in a small door.
Also if you have to take in your nephew the wizard he can sleep there.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
And you are correct, though not enough room under ours for Harry Potter, ha. The previous owner already opened up that space and installed shelves and a door under there. That was the first space I took over for emergency food storage.
BaldyCarrotTop@reddit
It is possible to bug in during winter. Way back in the 70's I went through a week without power in winter.
First, make sure that you house has a chance of surviving. Make sure it's bolted or anchored to the foundation. Have gas and water shutoff tools to deal with those unities if they leak.
Be creative with storage. Use blocks to set the bed up a little higher. Steralite makes short but long under bed storage totes. Thin shelves along the side of the garage? behind doors? I do this I have a bunch of personal care stuff behind the bathroom door.
Use your preps as a bridge to hold you over until outside help arrives.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Retrofitting our home is the one big prep I haven't gotten to yet (due to the cost and time involved) but it is one of our top priorities. All of my plans right now count on the home remaining habitable. Already made sure everyone in the house knows how to shut off the gas, water and electricity.
Great suggestions for creative storage solutions. Adding those to my notes too.
Reasonable_Action29@reddit
Maybe learn a skill like fishing. If something happened with the food supply I plan to catch fish to supplement my stores.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Great tip to learn skills. Fire starting is one that's on my long list. Fishing is one I already got, thanks to my dad. The closest source of fish, though, is many kilometers away - at least an hour-long walk (likely longer if infrastructure is torn up by a quake).
Reasonable_Action29@reddit
Fishing had been on the top of my list of how I'd provide food to myself in a time of need. I have a 100ft gill net that in a life or death time could swim it across a creak to harvest fish. But if you don't have easy access to water ways it may not help you.
Learning trapping could be another way to get food.
Harrigan70@reddit
Congratulations- I fully expected your “worst case scenario “ to be a rare probability event but you have a very solid concern about a likely future scenario.
How well are your preps organized? I found a lot of extra space by reorganizing and repackaging everything.
I was collecting stuff a little at a time and it lead to piling items on top of each other. I was able to find some great space each time I reorganize.
Other than that I would set new goals and find space/price efficient preps, maybe 2 weeks of store what you eat and then another 2 weeks of “hope we never have to eat that” type of system?
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
I'm at the "piling items on top of each other stage", he he. A reorganization is definitely due. I like your idea to group together supplies based on need.
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
One thing here is that you don't want to make preparedness tarnish your current life much. Like I enjoy taking my kids to Disneyland every now and then. It involves travel, being away from home (and supplies, resources, being in a city I don't know very well, etc: basically the worst things for preparedness.
But Disneyland is fun (for us) and it's part of having a full life.
Prepping has been a net positive for us, we've learned a lot and while we've made financial decisions around it we're still happy and moving forward with our lives.
Just don't end up in some situation where your life sucks now in some hope that it won't later. Chances are you (and I) could do zero preparedness and be just fine.
skillet-unbundle-815@reddit (OP)
Excellent perspective. Thank you. I'm realizing I need to come to some kind of compromise - a middle ground where I feel prepared enough that we can get by but not so stocked up that my family will want to throw me out of the house!
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
Yeah man, and I'm a crazy prepper with plans and resources for all kinds of eventualities. I just try to remember that for extreme situations (world war, pandemics, etc) the odds are just really low. Not zero, which is why I do everything I do, but still pretty low.
tdubs702@reddit
Can you remind them how things were with Covid to provide an example of just how fragile our systems are? Or any other natural disasters (like the cold snap that hit TX and ppl literally died in their homes - this was within the last cpl years)?
Or you could go the environmental route as eco friendly moves can often be prepped moves. Learning to garden and can months of food for example. Or I’d say get a wood stove but that would be unlikely in a townhouse lol.
Cradetato@reddit
Hey fellow! I suggest just tell your family this is not overpreparing, after a winter quake on the West Coast, rescue could be delayed for weeks. Gradually adding space-saving supplies is building our family's safety net to stay warm and fed when it matter most.
sgtPresto@reddit
Look..every residence has dead space...the very top of a closet, behind chairs and sofas, under beds, so do a Space Survey to find available space. Dollar Genrral sells twin cans of canned chicken whoch is a source of protein and fat. They run $5.50USD a twin pack. Amazon has 15 pound bags of rice for $16 to $20. Think as readiness prepping as Musical Chairs. When the music stops, you want to have a chair to suddenly sit in.
IlliniWarrior1@reddit
unfortunately - that coastal area has unique earthquake potential that makes the possible SHTF 10X worse than an inland earthquake - an associated tidal wave (tsunami) has a strong possibility ......
if you can't do much more with prepping - have your bug out planned to the 9th Degree - take serious whatever warnings the experts can guess at ......
No_Character_5315@reddit
I live where op lives if he's on the mainland tsunamis aren't a concern for us.
speakingthetruth_GM@reddit
1) How could anyone answer this 2) Reference FEMA guidelines 3) Your family thinks you’re crazy. People either are going to think like this or not.