Missile Countering | TheaterFire

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guidomescalito@reddit

Great video but would be even better without the music and weird 90 degree rotation

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

This would have sucked if it was filmed in portrait mode. Not sure why rotating your phone slightly is so weird? :)

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Mackin-N-Cheese@reddit

Because I’m watching on a computer monitor

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

Fuck me. Sorry dude. I sound so stupid right now :)

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Mackin-N-Cheese@reddit

Nah, it's OK. I almost exclusively use old.reddit on desktop, and still have a hard time accepting that nearly 75% of Reddit users access it via mobile.

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the_silent_redditor@reddit

The day old.reddit dies is the day I finally stop.

It’s alreayd getting less and less accessible. Videos rarely load properly before 20-30 seconds; often the ‘top’ pages of subs will be blank and need reloaded; video threads will often reload several times and sometimes take you to the source page automatically.

Still better than the dogshit TikTok/IG mashup that is the current feed.

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TheCatOfWar@reddit

reddit absolutely fucked the image viewer. you can't just view an image itself anymore without their awful header and footer that overlaps the actual top and bottom of the image (!!) and prevents you from zooming in properly

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

I mod a sub for 150k people. Around two percent still access it via old.reddit. I've made changes to ensure it works for them just as well, as I used to be an old. User too :)

Sadly mostly mobile now as it's more convenient!

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Mackin-N-Cheese@reddit

Yeah, I mod a few subs that have 1M to 3+M subscribers, and it's the same. But I still do virtually all my moderating via Old Reddit + RES + Mod Toolbox -- using mobile is just too painful for that amount of workload.

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ChartreuseBison@reddit

If you have RES just click the rotate video button

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

I think I'd need tools like you've got if I had that many members! 150k is rookie numbers :)

That said I still try to deliver for old. users.

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DoctorPepster@reddit

At least I can rotate the video on PC (Firefox w/ RES, old Reddit)

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NotCook59@reddit

Didn’t occur to me the first time I viewed it.

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MIRV888@reddit

VVS (Vertical Video Syndrome) is a serious issue with no known cure.

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SkyGuy182@reddit

Theaters will have to become vertical

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carp_boy@reddit

I get a flicked out on occasion, I rotate the phone and the image rotates but if you look at the controls you can see that internally it's not treating it as rotated.

I try to be very cognizant of this and make sure everything I do is in the aspect I want but it does happen on occasion.

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ChapterThr33@reddit

It seems to target certain generations....

Landscape or GTFO from this millennial

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jwrsk@reddit

That's just the music he has blasting in the cockpit while flying 😉

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ChapterThr33@reddit

No doubt a cool video but I'm confused, maybe someone can educate on me on evasive maneuvers. It seems like he's not actually turning very much, just rolling back and forth while going in a straight line? If straight line speed is what's important I'd think you'd just hammer it and keep it straight. If breaking lock / out maneuvering the missile is what's what's needed than I imagine you'd see a lot of high g turns. This feels like a middle ground that does neither. Imma go ahead and assume the pilot knows something I don't lol just doesn't make intuitive sense to me.

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SwissPatriotRG@reddit

You don't break lock on a missile without the help of terrain. If it's really flat like that, the radar source that is guiding the missile can likely see you the whole time and keep the missile aimed at you. The purpose of doing turns like that is to bleed kinetic energy from the missile. It's very unlikely you will be facing a missile that has any thrust anymore, so basically it's gliding. Every turn the plane makes, the missile has to turn as well to keep an intercept trajectory, and every turn the missile makes slows it down, eventually the missile either is slower than the aircraft or doesn't have enough energy anymore to make the necessary turns to intercept. It doesn't necessarily need high G turns to avoid, it all depends on the range, the performance of the missile, altitude, and the positioning of the plane.

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ChapterThr33@reddit

Ah that makes a ton of sense, I thought missiles maintained thrust from launch to contact tbh.

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EverGivin@reddit

The rocket equation, chemical rockets get very big quickly!

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tropicbrownthunder@reddit

so did I, TIL that missles aren't powered from launch to impact

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Schmidisl_@reddit

There are some. For example the European "Meteor" missile has no rocket engine but a ram engine and is powered from start to impact.

As you said correctly, most missiles are not powered during the whole flight. You can imagine a 10 seconds burn and the rest is gliding

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Atesz222@reddit

Correct, the rocket motor only has fuel for 3-4 seconds, maybe a bit more (depends on the missile in question)

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swift1883@reddit

And regular missiles don’t reignite, correct?

The law of inertia would suggest that the missile will lose its overspeed quite fast, right? The faster it goes the faster it slows.

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Latespoon@reddit

Yes. Drag is proportional to speed squared

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swift1883@reddit

This thread is a big surprise. No documentary, wiki page or (I know) war movie told me that missiles simply coast/fall to their target

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ClaymoresInTheCloset@reddit

Yes very. In the upper atmosphere as you can imagine, they perform much better, so if a missile is launched at you in a higher altitude, defeating it usually involves diving for lower altitude, as well as what is called 'notching' which basically means moving at a perpendicular heading to the missile to force it to travel as far as possible

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ukulele87@reddit

Notching is more about evading the radar/missile lock than travel distance.
Flying directly away from the contact would be the way to increase distance.

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22Planeguy@reddit

There are some long range missiles with two stages that do have a second acceleration phase. That's not typical though because it adds a lot more size and weight, limiting the types aircraft that can carry them, and limiting the number of missiles the aircraft can carry.

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dingo1018@reddit

Most of the air to air boost up above the target and once the solid fuel is burnt out then they are falling with great speed to get that warhead into a position where it can proximity detonate and frag the target. So yes every turn the missile takes eats away that that energy budget the missile has, and also a lot of the earlier ones (possibly the modern ones too, idk) can actually exceed their structural integrity if they turn to quick. Such sharp turns probably happen more towards the end of the flight, but if the target aircraft makes a well timed, or more likely very lucky turn the missile can literally break up mid flight.

But there is constant development in weapons systems, I am sure some of the longer range missiles can ignite a second rocket motor both to extend range and really drive into the target.

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SomePunjabi@reddit

That depends on the missile and distance. As far as I know most air to air missiles have somewhere between 8-12 seconds of burn time.

As for ground launched missiles that might be more since the basically have to defeat gravity and gain a more speed since they are launched stationary and not from a moving plane. I don't how how long the average burn time is for them.

Also there are a few select air to air missiles that have the initial burn time, and one the missile sees you with it's own radar, it has another terminal phase booster. These are hard to defend that way because they basically nullify the very thing you're doing which is bleeding energy. You might have a better chance of hitting a corner so tight that the missile is top fast to hit. But that's a gamble and might just kill you

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jwrsk@reddit

So wait, they burn at the beginning and then just glide? Can you escape by flying up? I'd guess unpowered missile can't exactly climb?

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NoOne0020@reddit

If it is already co speed with your aircraft or slower probably (there are ways to estimate this but never precisely). But you would also be taking the missile into thinner air. It’s generally much more advisable to stay low and let dense air drag to its thing.

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jockel37@reddit

And what about turns? What if you manage to make a sharp turn (150° maybe?) when the missile is close to the plane?

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SomePunjabi@reddit

I'd explain it that way: First you gotta keep in mind a sharp turn bleeds a lot of your own energy and while it can go relatively fast it's not instant.

When you're trying to do it against a fast missile you're a) too late and it's already impacted before you get any change in your direction strong enough for the missile to hit you or b) when the missile is still further away and since you just slowed down, it does have to adjust its flightpath and will still hit you or c) you just won the lottery and got that 0.1% chance of some how outmanoeuvring a fast missile

When you're going against a slow missile you a) have a worse turn rate than the missile and will still die or b) you might actually be lucky in terms of the missile just lost enough energy so that it won't be able to turn with you and falls out of the sky.

So technically yes, you might get it done but it's a very small chance and you have to get the missile slow first. So you might as well stick with the safe thing of slowing the missile down without risking the results of miscalculation.

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jockel37@reddit

Ok got it, next time I'm followed by a missile I'll just step on the gas and make very slight turns at low altitude 🤔

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SomePunjabi@reddit

Pretty much yeah.

And pray to whatever God you believe in, if any, that the missile was fired from far enough away that you can actually chance the outcome.

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NoOne0020@reddit

A sharp turn will make you slow, maybe slow enough for a slow missile to catch. So don’t do that. Missile is unmanned and can surely pull more g’s than you. If it can’t, it was already falling out of the sky, just try not to turn into it.

But it’s much better to do slow turns like in the video allowing you to keep your speed up, which will be much more useful in defeating the missile by increasing the distance it has to travel to get you.

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SamAzing0@reddit

FYI: Most A2A munitions usually burn for <8 seconds. IR missiles tend to burn around 5, with ARH around the 5-8 mark. (Ref: Aim-9, Aim-120, R-73, R-77 - the missiles you're most likely to see in this conflict)

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SomePunjabi@reddit

Ay, good to know. Thx

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Maleficent-Candy476@reddit

the booster burns a few seconds typically, longer range missiles have a sustainer motor usually that burns for around 10 seconds (or longer for extreme ranges)

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CookFan88@reddit

Right. Missiles have very limited fuel and maneuvering time available. My understanding is that defeating missiles is about keeping distance and trying to out last the fuel on board.

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amanwithoutaname001@reddit

Current day wild weasel. Badass.

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Interesting_Pea_9351@reddit

After the missile losses speed does it crash or does it blow up in air?

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12358132134@reddit

Except that is is not turning, he is basically flying straight (look at the clouds for reference)

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Big_Assignment5949@reddit

Forget about the clouds, he's flying over farmland... its basically graph paper on the bottom half. All straight lines.

It seems like he never changes course more than maybe 30 degrees right and left. Which isn't doppler notch and isn't optimized groundspeed. I'm a little confused on whats going on but I don't fly tactical aviation.

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SomePunjabi@reddit

While you're technically right and he's not changing his direction a lot and not hitting a notch it's pretty useful against missiles. Depending on the type missiles typically have somewhere between 8-12 seconds of burn time and are purely gliding afterwards (there a a few select missiles that have a terminal phase burn but we'll ignore them for the sake of simplicity).

Also anti air missiles intercept by, well intercepting your flight path and not following you, meaning it will always aim in front of you.

Assuming the missile is on your 6, when you chance your course by 30°, the missile will have to change more to continue to intercept which burns a lot of it's kinetic energy. Now since he's down low the missile also has a lot of air resistance that also burns kinetic energy especially while turning. Do that several times and the missile will burn a lot of it's energy simply by having to turn more than you. At some point it will lose enough energy that it's a) slower than you or b) doesn't have enough energy to make the turns necessary to intercep you.

So when you're in a position where you can't notch the missile, it's a perfect balance between keeping your airspeed up and running away while also bleeding the missiles energy.

Doesn't always work, especially with close range shots or when the missile comes down from above you. But here it seems reasonable.

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Big_Assignment5949@reddit

Again, I don't know. I don't fly tacair. I'm hoping you do; i hope its sick. But if we were in a classroom together and you laid this explanation on me, I'd have some questions.

I understand the missile energy, terminal energy available, etc. That all makes sense.

But fundamentally a missile in chase does not need to make a greater turn than the plane its chasing. The geometry at the very foundation confused me.

Good news is it doesn't matter. Its a sick video.

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SomePunjabi@reddit

Just did a very rough sketch to visualize it for myself and you're absolutely right. Mathematically the missiles turn are smaller than the jets turns, I stand corrected.

So we'll just stay with what we've already established as true. One has less kinetic energy but has a running engine to create it and the other is a gliding metal pole with explosives that has more kinetic energy but can create it. Therefore as long as you play do good resource management you'll most likely survive.

And you're absolutely right, the video is sick af.

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GrundleBlaster@reddit

From reading another thread: people who claimed to understand the instruments said he was pulling somewhere around 5gs during the turns, or at least they suggested he was at the air-frame limits during the turns.

Basically just gunning it and throwing in what little he could turn at full throttle.

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12358132134@reddit

These turns are nowhere near 5g.

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chatte__lunatique@reddit

Look at this thread and then watch the video again, keeping an eye on the gauge circled in that thread.

Dude is def pulling 5+ g's on some of those turns. You gotta remember, this guy is fuckin booking it at very low altitude, so even relatively slight turns will create a large moment on the airframe from the AoA shifts — dense air + high speed = large forces.

Only thing that confuses me is that the other half of that gauge, which measures AoA, isn't apparently moving at all...one would expect 15°+ of AoA on those turns considering the g-force spikes. But maybe that gauge is malfunctioning or I'm just reading it wrong.

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12358132134@reddit

Now that I look at the video, you are correct, he did pull 4-5g briefly... Most of the time he was at 1-3g.

This is the accelerometer on mig29:

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rickyh7@reddit

It’s also possible he’s attempting to notch the missile. I don’t see any obvious RWR inside the cockpit view shown but if he was keeping it beamed 90 the back and fourth movement that he’s performing helped create a “dead zone” for a radar or radar guided missile from being able to detect you since radar is looking for Doppler shift. If from the view of the missile you are not moving towards or away from the missile simply across its field of view it can lose track on you. It’s also the perfect time to dispense chaff since the missile will lose you and grab the chaff. If an aircraft or ground system has you locked you try to notch the ground station. If the missile has internal guidance you notch the missile

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Sad_Entrepreneur7652@reddit

"combat tactics dr ryan"

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RedScud@reddit

You can notch it...

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diezel_dave@reddit

Is this even a thing anymore when countering modern AESA radar?

Not that Russia is using an AESA in the launching aircraft, but I'm still curious.

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NoOne0020@reddit

I’ve heard you can do it if you manage to position yourself exactly perpendicular from it, to the degree. So it’s possible yes, but super improbable. Just run. Higher chances.

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RedScud@reddit

I never said anything about newer radars, AESA is much better but still not 100% fool proof immune. The post I answered to stated something simply: "You don't break lock on a missile without the help of terrain". Which is false. But downvote me away

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Fit_Rice_3485@reddit

Th problems is that the source says the misuse was lanced at 40 kilometers

Doesn’t matter how low you flying, the turn rate seen here is not enough to bleed any missile launched from Such a range

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SomePunjabi@reddit

It's the opposite. When the missile is fired at close range it'll either still be in its burn time and is therefore generating more energy than it's burning or just finished burning and has more than enough energy to still outrun and hit you. For long range shots that missile has been out of burn time for some time, most air to air missiles have somewhere between 8-12 seconds burn time, for ground to air missiles I'm not sure what the average burn time is. Probably more since it's launched stationary and has to do the same thing but defeat gravity and start from 0 ground speed in comparison to plane launched missiles.

Nether is really relevant since the missile is most likely gliding and since missiles always aim in front of you to intercept you, it will have to turn more than you and bleed more energy each turn. The goal is that you bleed less energy than the missile hoping to reduce its kinetic energy so much that it either can't turn with you anymore or is just slower before it hits you.

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St-JohnMosesBrowning@reddit

There is a huge variety of missiles from short range to very long range - 40 km could easily be at the edge of or exceed the max range of some short range missiles.

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-Supp0rt-@reddit

I know you’ve gotten other answers, but In regards to outmaneuvering a missile, it’s basically impossible unless the missile just fails.

TV shows and movies have popularized the idea of “making a last minute turn to dodge” or some super heavy pull on the stick to out-turn the missile.

These ideas are frankly ridiculous, and it completely pulls me out of a movie every time it happens. This is because the human body can only handle 9-12g for a few seconds before the pilot will lose consciousness, while a modern missile (or even semi-modern) can pull upwards of 40-60g, and updates its tracking data multiple times per second. The only time this would’ve been possible is when missiles were in their infant stages in the 1950s and 60s and had rudimentary tracking and flight prediction algorithms.

Saying a (human piloted) plane can dodge a missile is like saying the twin towers should’ve evaded the planes that crashed into them.

In fact, modern missiles can, to a limited extent, be fired at a target who is behind them, and will basically pull a 180 degree turn right off the rail.

So instead of dodging, evading missiles is always either about fooling the seeker, or running the missile out of energy, and depends heavily on the distance it was fired from and the type of guidance being used.

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Strega007@reddit

Yes, there is in fact a "last ditch" maneuver to increase miss distance in the end game of a missile intercept. And, yes, it does work. Signed, someone who executed a last ditch maneuver against an Iraqi SA-6 and survived.

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DogsOutTheWindow@reddit

Sounds wild, can you share the story?

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Arafluch@reddit

I think what he's trying to go for, is notching. That is positioning your planes flight path perpendicular to that of the missile / putting the missile at your 3/9-o'clock.

Doing so sets your relative velocity more or less to zero, and as missiles like that (Fox-3 or Fox-1, so radar guided) use Doppler radars, they have to filter out the ground, which is also moving at a relative speed of 0. If you see where this is going: by having your own relative speed at 0 aswell, the missile will likely filter you out as ground (being below the missile helps this effect).

So what he's doing: by trying to keep the missile (probably to his left) at 90° from his plane, and switching left and right to hit the angle several times, while dispensing chaff while perpendicular, he is trying to be filtered out as ground by the missiles own radar. The perpendicular flying also has the advantage of driving the missile, so making it turn the most and spending a lot of its energy.

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Due_Drawer_75@reddit

My guess would be he is running cold here. Apparently notching doesn't work well IRL at all (Missiles are far more advanced in real life than in video games).
Take anything said with a grain of salt of course because im no pilot :)

Sources on notching being ineffective: ex Super Bug pilot, ex B-52 Pilot & T-38C IP, ex RPA (MQ-9).

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ReturnOfTheSaint14@reddit

Heeeeeh notching is still useful nowadays, it's true that modern Fox-3 missiles (and some modern Fox-1 as well although they're rarely produced since Fox-3s are vastly superior) have a form of notching resistance and radars, especially AESA ones,are also notch resistant,but this doesn't mean they're immune to notching.

Moreover,we don't know what type of missile the dude was defending himself against,and IRL AWACS/Ground Control needs a lot of data to know it if the RWR of the aircraft can't recognise it. And knowing which missile is reaching you is vital to know what's the best method to defend against it.

Moreover,how does a B-52 pilot know that notching is ineffective?i mean,i don't distrust his opinion but if he flew a B-52 during his entire career i'm pretty sure he never thought of notching a missile since the B-52 can't physically do it

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Strega007@reddit

I would not trust that a dude who flew BUFFs and RPAs knows a whole lot about anti-missile tactics. Neither aircraft is really suitable for the types of threat reactions that are optimized by going to the notch.

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ChapterThr33@reddit

My first thought was how much I wanted to see a B-52 do that lol

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ReturnOfTheSaint14@reddit

I mean,a B-52 ate an AGM-88 in its tail and was relatively fine so i guess it's either the complete opposite or a wonderful surprise

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pseudonymeme@reddit

at 37s he looks at 3o'clock, maybe that's why? not sure he'd see anything

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Arafluch@reddit

Found a graphic!

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NeedForSpeed93@reddit

Damn this actually explains a lot, thanks

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TX_Sized10-4@reddit

I really recommend you check out a guy called Growling Sidewinder on YouTube. He's a flight simmer, but I've never seen the concepts of dogfighting and BVR engagements explained so well. He often does a tacview breakdown after the scenario too to explain the actions taken by him and his adversary.

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ChapterThr33@reddit

I'll check him out!

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NotCook59@reddit

I’m just troubled why the camera is at a 90° angle to the cockpit.

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Time_Employer1345@reddit

Maybe it’s to try and break the targeting from the aircraft that launched it?

I too am curious the maneuvers used

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HandiCAPEable@reddit

That caption is just ignorant and annoying. Even MANPADS will go Mach 3, more current air to air missiles can go Mach 4.

Sure, you need to go faster than the missile... Ok

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halsie@reddit

You dont need to be faster, you just have to run the missiles out of energy. That rocket motor only has a short burn time then after that the idea is to bleed off its energy. If you're interested in more, watch a growlingsidwinder video on YouTube he does an excellent job of explaining how they work and the strategies used to defeat them

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HandiCAPEable@reddit

Correct, that was my exact point. I'm not the one saying you have to be faster, the video does. And that was my exact point.

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SomePunjabi@reddit

A GR fan. I see, you're man of culture.

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MetalFlappy@reddit

do you think a missiles engine burns indefinitely? at some point it starts gliding, if you fly away and turn a little, it bleeds energy, and yes, at some point you will be faster than the missile

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HandiCAPEable@reddit

I'm clearly the only one who has an issue with the wording, lol. Yes, you are correct that eventually it will bleed energy, and at that point, yes you can fly faster than it.

But this is like saying, "Be faster than Usain Bolt or you die". For me, I'm not faster than Usain Bolt, yeah maybe I can juke him out because he needs to catch me and he stumbles, or I started with a big enough lead he tires out, and stops chasing me. To me, that doesn't make me faster than him.

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LargeBloodyKnife@reddit

The goal is to slow the missle down so eventually, you do go faster. Missiles rarely miss if they have the energy to get to you. You need to bleed that energy by forcing the missile to adjust it's course.

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HandiCAPEable@reddit

That's my point, lol. Don't just jam on afterburners and maintain heading.

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Salki1012@reddit

Some people were saying the motors in air to air missiles last for 8-12 seconds so that Mach 3 number is good for that long. 45km is ~26.5 seconds at Mach 3 so as long as the rocket has bled enough energy off to slow it down to say Mach 1 then the jet does go faster at the moment when it matters.

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Uncross-Selector@reddit

This was posted earlier but in the right orientation.

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IonTheProtogen@reddit

u/savevideo

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SaveVideo@reddit

View link

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KoalaRashCream@reddit

I enjoyed it yesterday when the aspect ratio was correct and there wasn’t this stupid music

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pornborn@reddit

Agreed. This has been posted so many times I’m having trouble believing this is the OP and yet it appears this OP is taking credit for it and posting a sideways version. OP doesn’t have any other posts of this in their profile and they have an Instagram account that touts them being a fighter pilot. They have no other posts in Reddit that have anything to do with flying, let alone being a fighter pilot.

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

Was it fillmed in wider screen originally, so this is cropped or something?

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copingcabana@reddit

"I see no missile up here."

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starkruzr@reddit

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

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curious-chineur@reddit

Is that an extra GPS with usb cord that is blurred ?

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senor-fih@reddit

This is great footage

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den40den@reddit (OP)

And it's real combat footage

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JJAsond@reddit

Shame it's turned 90 degrees

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Schlaefer@reddit

Here's the properly rotate video on r/CombatFootage.

This was an interesting comment too. The instrument is in the bottom right.

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JJAsond@reddit

Thanks

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NotCook59@reddit

That was my first reaction. Then I turned my phone sideways and it made more sense. It’s recorded in landscape mode.

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olddoglearnsnewtrick@reddit

sloppy

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Princ3Ch4rming@reddit

Absolutely incredible that we’re seeing real fighter footage from broadly equivalent sides in a total war.

The low altitude is really going to help with bleeding energy from the missile, but it’s still far different from training sorties with a 20k hard deck.

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RRumpleTeazzer@reddit

Do a Barrell Roll!

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Candle-Jolly@reddit

Airspeed?

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BlackMarine@reddit

He is doing 900 kmph, at 100m, pulling 5G at those slight turns.

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Stonkpilot@reddit

Yes.

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Murky_Room4447@reddit

u/savevideobot

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12358132134@reddit

What is the point of this? Coolness factor for video? He is not evading anyhing, just flying in a straight line while rolling side to side.

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gwdope@reddit

1) several of his turns in the video are more than 30degrees of direction change, at very high speed, likely around 5-6g of acceleration. You just have zero experience or reference to what that looks like. Look at the second turn in the video, he’s cut his bearing across an entire 1km wide field in a few seconds while traveling down range the same distance. That’s a big change in direction in a short period of time at an incredibly high speed.

2) Turning from one side to the other while flying away from a missile is exactly how you bleed a missile of its energy-if you have the separation from the launch point. A missile generally only has a few seconds of time when its motor is burning and it’s accelerating up to speed, after that it is coasting toward the calculated target intercept point . If you make it maneuver after the rocket motor is burnt out, it bleeds speed with every course correction. Every turn he’s making is causing another recalculation of the intercept point and another correction of the missile.

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12358132134@reddit

Yeah, I wouldn't know anything about high-G turns, I am just sporting a custom made g-suit as a fashion accessory.

https://imgur.com/a/iBvt5TR

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DatZero@reddit

Cool, you got a custom made G-Suit, now what?

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12358132134@reddit

Nothing much. I really wouldn't know anything about agressive maneuvering in an aircraft as opposed to all of these fligh-sim-top-gun-military-couch-experts here.

Anyone saying that this pilot is pulling 5-6g in this video has no idea what they are talking about.

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gwdope@reddit

Your crop duster do 550knots at 150ft asl? Your ignorance makes me think you’re full of shit and your hidden post history could indicate you’re just a Russian troll…

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SomePunjabi@reddit

He's doing one of two things: a) notching the missile/tracking radar or b) bleeding the missiles energy. Personally I think it's b) and I'll explain why.

Depending on the type missiles typically have somewhere between 8-12 seconds of burn time and are purely gliding afterwards (there a a few select missiles that have a terminal phase burn but we'll ignore them for the sake of simplicity).

Also anti air missiles intercept by, well intercepting your flight path and not following you, meaning it will always aim in front of you.

Assuming the missile is on your 6, when you chance your course by a few degrees, the missile will have to change more to continue to intercept which burns a lot of it's kinetic energy. Now since he's down low the missile also has a lot of air resistance that also burns kinetic energy especially while turning.

Do that several times and the missile will burn a lot of it's energy simply by having to turn more than you. At some point it will lose enough energy that it's a) slower than you or b) doesn't have enough energy to make the turns necessary to intercep you.

So when you're in a position where you can't notch the missile, it's a perfect balance between keeping your airspeed up and running away while also bleeding the missiles energy.

Doesn't always work, especially with close range shots or when the missile comes down from above you. But here it seems reasonable.

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12358132134@reddit

If someone shot a missile at him while he is flying that low, whether the missile hits him or not would be a pure luck. One thing is when you notice missile coming at you from 5-10-20 miles away, and completely another thing when its launched less than a mile from you.

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SomePunjabi@reddit

Well, according to the source the launch was ~40km away so we're not talking about missile defense inside of the missiles MAR. Also when fighting BVR, there's the aspect of knowing you have a missile on you and starting to defend and assuming it is and starting to defend. Most of the time when you engage in BVR fights you assume you have a missile with track while scan fired on you and start to defend anyways once you shot yours, because when you defend after the missile actually sees you on its own it's only a few miles away and most of the time to late for you and you'll die. So no, you don't defend only after knowing you have one on you, you always assume it and act accordingly. The only way to know if one is launched at that distance is if it's fired with a primary target lock (necessary for Fox 1s, optional for Fox 3s), then your RWR will tell you the second it's launched. If not the RWR will know there's a radar looking at you the whole time/warn you that something with a radar looking at you is coming closer but the actual lock warning will only come a few seconds before impact when the missile actually sees you.

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Gumbode345@reddit

Great comment /s Just go back to bed, that’s more helpful.

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HandiCAPEable@reddit

Two defending East!

Ummm....Two? You're just flying straight buddy...

TWO DEFENSIVE!!!!

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