Question for fighter jets pilots or people with experience with fighter jets

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27803@reddit

So a couple things, modern jets like the F16 are designed for pilots to keep their hands on the stick and throttle the vast majority of the time, you really have no need to go moving around touching buttons or switches so being in a natural position is going to be much more comfortable, it’s better for maneuvering and pulling G’s in that you don’t need to support your arms and the plane does, beyond that you don’t have possibility that you wack the stick with your legs or vice versa in a dog fight

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BigJellyfish1906@reddit

No. A high aspect dogfight can have you contorting all kinds of ways to keep sight, and that side-stick can become a problem. Think needing to twist around to your extreme left to keep sight.

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armspawn@reddit

As a right handed center stick guy, a question for sidestick guys:

I like to be able to switch hands on the stick so I can use my right hand to write on my kneeboard, and also sometimes to help pull my body around to look behind my left shoulder etc. What do you do when you have to write something and can’t afford to let go of the stick, say when flying form?

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BigJellyfish1906@reddit

Those are just accepted downsides of a side-stick. Non-fighter pilots just don’t know. They read the Lockheed brochure and their minds are made up.

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Emory4llstate@reddit

Autopilot helps a lot in this airplane, but you’re right there are definitely times when it isn’t feasible to be using the autopilot that I wish I could fly with my left hand briefly. Or write with my left I guess lol

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shinyviper@reddit

Cockpits (especially in fighter jets) are very tight places. Real estate is at a premium for all the things the pilot needs.

Center stick is actually a mechanical lever, and it needs the room to physically move around in all directions, to actuate wires and cables (originally) or hydraulics (more recently) for flight controls since it's a mechanical process. The downside is it takes up a lot of that valuable real estate in the cockpit.

Fly by wire doesn't use mechanical force to actuate flight controls, since it's all done like a video game controller by relaying through the flight computer system. Having the controls to the side means there's suddenly more room for other things the pilot needs, particularly things the pilot needs in center vision.

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RedFiveIron@reddit

It's still a tradeoff, a lot of fbw aircraft still use a center stick. Pilot familiarity and ability to use either hand on the stick are the main benefits of center stick on a fbw plane.

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800mgVitaminM@reddit

The reason is HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick). All the command functions of the jet, maneuvering and avionics/weapons, are controlled through buttons, wheels, and switches located on the throttle and stick. There's no reason to use your throttle hand on the stick so there's no reason for it to be in the middle. It's also easier to pull massive amounts of g-force while operating weapons systems with your hands at your side as opposed to your arms having to maintain space unsecured in the center of the cockpit.

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BigJellyfish1906@reddit

>There's no reason to use your throttle hand on the stick

No. A high aspect dogfight can have you contorting all kinds of ways to keep sight, and that side-stick can become a problem. Think needing to twist around to your extreme left to keep sight.

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Tyjun10@reddit

There is a big reason to use your left hand on the stick when fighting BFM and you’re in a defensive position. While not super common you might need to use your right hand to get leverage on the canopy, for instance, so you can twist more in your seat to get a better view behind you while using your left hand to keep the pull going.

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RedFiveIron@reddit

HOTAS is used with center sticks too. Throttle hand might be used on the stick in case of pilot injury or need to manipulate controls on the right side panels.

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RestaurantFamous2399@reddit

There is also a big box underneath most fly by wire sticks that have all the feedback and control systems in it.

That box doesn't fit well between your legs.

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RyzOnReddit@reddit

It’s also really nice when you’re pulling G to have your arm supported.

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Hot-Persimmon2357@reddit

I feel like this is one of, if not the biggest reason. With the F35 stick, its pressure sensitive and doesn't even need to physically move at all, but it does just a little bit because pilots preferred having a little motion to use as feedback. That let's you keep your arm in the same position, and on an armrest, through the full range of motion needed to fly, and makes flying at high g's much easier.

That combined with the giant touchscreens that a center stick would get in the way of and the choice of side stick is obvious

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Minisohtan@reddit

There's a video of one of the f16 test pilots talking about the pressure based controls. Humans are surprisingly bad at knowing how hard we're pushing something, but we're very good at knowing where our hands are. Simple solution, let the stick move a little so pilots can predict how their movements will be transmitted to plane movements.

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shinyviper@reddit

Also true. Pilot comfort and ergonomics became a thing around the development on the F-16. G tolerance meant staying in the fight longer.

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Airplane_nerd111@reddit

Also, in the F16, the control stick doesn't actually move around. Just applying pressure to the stick causes the plane to pitch, roll, etc.

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ChevDeezle@reddit

Former F-16 avionics tech here: It has about 1/4" of movement in all directions. The original design didn't move and the pilots didn't like that.

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tuataraenfield@reddit

I'm not disagreeing, but it's wild to me that an F-15 can be almost the size of a B-17 (for example), and cockpits still be described as "tight" 🤣

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OneAndOneHalfDozen@reddit

You have to make the best use of the inner volume of the aircraft so it makes sense that the part a person will be inside will be as small as possible in order to maximise the aircraft's performance. It would be no good having something the size of an F-15 that was mediocre in performance because the designers wanted to include a comfortable arm chair and a foot spa for the pilot.

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Individual_Signal564@reddit

Well, B-17 was not able to reach Mach 2.

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Motivated-MonMon-05@reddit (OP)

Thanks for your answer, so it seems that this kind of side sticks will be the future for fbw planes, but i wanna ask, why don't european fighter jets like eurofighter develop some kind of side stick like the us despite their plane also use fbw? Is there a constraint in cost to redevelop a new kind cockpit for them?

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discombobulated38x@reddit

Probably less about cost/complexity and probably more about "we've always done it this way so why would we change now".

That being said for forces with both the eurofighter and the F35 I think there'll be some significant feedback that side stick is better when you're pulling 8G.

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DadKnightBegins@reddit

I’m assuming this is an F 35 based on the front cockpit pivot. As opposed to the F-22 rear pivot.

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Areallywierdusername@reddit

I believe it to be the F-35B as I think it’s the only Lightning2 with a forward pivot. As it has the lift fan close to where the pivot would be

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Longjumping_Panda531@reddit

All F-35 variants have front-hinged canopies

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0621Hertz@reddit

But the F-35 has the front pivot because of the F-35B.

The goal was to keep parts as uniform as possible across the models. However I think that decision compromised the program as a whole overall.

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