Could someone explain why these three are so disliked?
Posted by FoxResponsible8924@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 843 comments
I've watched a lot of Star Trek, but haven't interacted with the community as much until recently. It seems like these three are really disliked, but I don't know exactly why. Wesley I sort of get, he can be annoying. Keiko I'm neutral on, I don't see how anyone can really go either way too strongly, so I don't get the hate. I really like Barclay though. I understand the whole holodeck thing was weird, although I liked the episode as a whole, but I've enjoyed every other one of his appearances. Especially the fear of transporters one, that's one of my favorite TNG episodes.
Also I know this isn't the place, but I'd throw Neelix in there as well.
Kagato99@reddit
I have the exact same opinions as you on all 4 counts.
alexagente@reddit
Wesley for being a know-it-all who saves the day instead the team of highly trained people around him. I think it's exaggerated and even when it's not that he's supposed to be a prodigy so I don't really see the problem myself.
Keiko for often being a frustrating foil to everyone's beloved suffering everyman. I admit to being annoyed by her sometimes but the hate is absurd and often comes with misogynistic undertones. She's basically the "nag" wife to a lot of people.
Barclay I think is actually well liked now but apparently when his first episode released people took him as some sort of dig against the average Trek fan and took umbrage to that.
NotAlwaysGifs@reddit
Keiko’s early episodes are poorly written for her character. She was written to be the foil for O’Brien but they made her antagonistic instead of balancing. She gets much better as TNG goes on, and especially with a rewatch, she becomes quite a sympathetic character because O’Brien is no saint. When she comes back in DS9, her writing is much better all around.
Rvaldrich@reddit
^ This.
I actually like Wesley a lot. I think the hate is more a misplaced irritation at the narrative quality of the first two seasons. He just became a scapegoat.
nonlethaldosage@reddit
He saved the day what twice
Echo-Azure@reddit
I like the fact that Barclay is a massive nerd!
And disappointed that some of the fans take his existence as an insult, and not inclusiveness. Because of course there'd be massive nerds in Starfleet tech jobs!
kidviscous@reddit
Barclay is a character I couldn’t stand until realizing over the course of watching trek that he’s meant to be an outlier among accomplished and emotionally competent officers. TNG impressed me early on with the amount of stories it tells in its setting of a utopian society with nearly perfect, fully realized individuals making up their cast of characters. It’s a tough assignment to write around when characters don’t have room to grow. In fact, most productions won’t so much as look at a potential pitch or script unless it has interpersonal conflict, because it’s a tried and true way of storytelling that ensures content. Unlike the main cast of TNG, Barclay is a terribly flawed man, which presents two opportunities for storytelling: he’s given ample space for growth, and we’re given the chance to see how the crew, representing an intelligent and reasonable society, handles flawed men who would otherwise be allowed to fall through the cracks.
It’s been a bit since I watched TNG though so excuse me if I’m misremembering or projecting lol.
FlyYouFoolyCooly@reddit
No I think the intro is even Riker basically saying "we need to transfer Barclay." And Picard basically said "no, figure out how to make it work. We don't just transfer problems away, we solve them.".
Forlorn_Cyborg@reddit
Keiko can just take the kids and go to Bajor Lol. The time away from his family hanging out with Julian was among the best of his life. When his family came back they didn’t even want to be around him anymore.
Seaberry3656@reddit
Oooor she could leave the kids with Miles and go wherever she wants. Why does she have to be the sacrificing partner? ALL the time, every single time?
Time away from her family hanging out with [insert gay coded bestie] could have been the best of her life and she wouldn't have to be so stressed.
It's easy to be the "family guy" when you get to spend all your free time with your pals and hobbies while your spouse takes the hit.
Rustie_J@reddit
Honestly, if one spouse is in the military & the other one isn't, the civilian spouse should be the default child carer, at least during a deployment. Him taking over the kids on a Friday so she could go gossip with Garak or have girls night with Mrs. Peterson, yeah, obviously that should be happening, but not her leaving him & the kids for days or weeks to go do her own things.
It's not an issue of gender, it's an issue of risks & practicalities. What happens if Keiko is on a Risa vacay & Miles has the kids - the young kid & the baby - when there's an emergency & the civilians need evacuated ASAP? Or the station is under attack? Or the power plant goes out & he's working 36 straight hours to fix it?
It's not as bad with the Siskos because Jake was old enough from day one on DS9 to evac himself, to get himself to protective shelter, or just to care for himself unsupervised for a couple of days. But that's not the case for the O'Briens. Once Molly was old enough to be able to grab Yoshi & run, old enough to know where they needed to go under what circumstances, then yeah, Keiko should have more freedom to do shit without the kids. But until that point, it just kinda has to fall on the civilian spouse.
Seaberry3656@reddit
Miles thought it would be a nice gesture to send her on a botany expedition where she would be constantly on the move in rough terrain, living in a tent, with a child under 5. Just because he is very busy and important and it's practical for her to be the primary caregiver doesn't mean she isn't over burdened.
Her becoming a civilian just ended up being her lot because of Miles choices. He needed to learn what it's like to be a single parent for awhile, like her.
Rustie_J@reddit
I didn't say she wasn't overburdened, because obviously she was. However, you know what you're signing up for when you marry a military officer, & then again when you start having kids with them. She agreed to them moving to the post-Occupation warzone of DS9 on top of that; it's not like they couldn't have transferred somewhere safer, but DS9 came with a promotion.
If you don't wanna be the primary child carer, don't have kids with somebody who's active military. 🤷
What do you mean, her becoming a civilian? She always was one.
I don't disagree it would've done him some good to spend a little time as a single parent, but every time you turned around something was happening on that station that meant she needed to be ready to take the kids & run. Especially after Yoshi was born; you can't have the lead engineer on a wartime military base acting as the primary caretaker for a young child & an infant.
Although I will say, considering their location next to both the wormhole to a wholly unexplored quadrant of space & a planet in desperate need of help with their crops, it's insane that Sisko couldn't have taken her on as a civilian contractor. What with her being a botanist & all. With the latter situation she should've been in demand.
Seaberry3656@reddit
Stopped reading after "signed up to marry active military"
Cult mindset
Rustie_J@reddit
You can call it that all you want, it doesn't make it untrue.
Forlorn_Cyborg@reddit
Have you ever watched the show? She goes to Bajor a long time for a career opportunity, and takes the kids with her.
primalmaximus@reddit
That's the issue. She doesn't leave the kids with Miles while she goes off to pursue her career.
Forlorn_Cyborg@reddit
Lmao you’re taking this very serious. You know Miles is an engineer? They’re kind of the backbone of the Federation. Keiko is a botanist which is still important, but not nearly on equal levels.
Mikes and Julian hung out when they were both off duty or on missions together. If either one of them had a family to come home to they’d be there instead.
Plus I’m sure the options for child care are more abundant on a planet than a space station, for Keiko to leave the kids with while she works.
Seaberry3656@reddit
There are about 4 things blatantly wrong with what you just said. Not gonna waste time.
haeyhae11@reddit
Yeah sure regular sex was pure hell for O'Brien.
morpheusforty@reddit
Wasn't there a joke in DS9 about Keiko only letting him hit because they wanted a baby?
That woman keeps O'Brien's balls in a vice.
haeyhae11@reddit
If I remember correctly, there were a few hints. Off the top of my head, I can think of when the two were about to go on vacation and were making out in the shuttle before the Cardassians arrested him. I got the impression that the two had a reasonably good sex life.
Too-Much-Plastic@reddit
The one that comes to mind for me is when he’s playing that ball game against Bashir and she’s flirting with him before the big game, they genuinely seem happy with their love life
Jliang79@reddit
Yeah, it seems like Keiko doesn’t have a character beyond “Miles’s wife”. She’s severely underdeveloped.
NarmHull@reddit
She had to derail her botany career to be in the middle of nowhere with Miles while crazy trauma happens to them and their kids once a year.
schmitty9800@reddit
The issue with Wesley is that his character was very stereotypical for the time; the boy genius/wonder was a common sci-fi trope around that time(War Games, Weird Science, Ender's Game the book) and the writers played to that excessively early on. The best Wesley episodes were the ones where he didn't have to be the savior (Where No One Has Gone Before, Coming of Age, The First Duty)
NarmHull@reddit
Especially First Duty, I like when they actually let him be a kid.
kizami_nori@reddit
Lisa Simpson, Doogie Hauser, Steve Urkel, Hieronymus Fox...
Hollywood REALLY wanted the wunderkind trope to be in everything.
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
Wesley and Keiko both suffered from bad writing. Keiko less so, but Rosalind Chao was capable of a lot more than they gave her even on DS9.
Blofelds-Cat@reddit
I've been thrilled to see her in a well-deserved meaty role on Three Body Problem.
SadLaser@reddit
I think the misogyny comes more from how she's written. She's written like an angry sitcom wife and almost never has any storylines of her own with any real development. She's just there to antagonize or humanize O'Brien, generally.
coluch@reddit
She was a teacher. She’s the only character that told off Kai Winn, and generally always had the level-headed correct takes when dealing with Mikes. Except when she was a possessed demon. That episode was stupid, though her acting was great.
Maximum_Web9072@reddit
I feel like whenever Miles and Keiko argue, I'm either neutral or on Keiko's side, especially in DS9. I mostly like Miles, but when he argues with Keiko he ends up saying some pretty prejudiced things and expressing views and attitudes I would've hoped would be outdated by the 24th century.
aesndi@reddit
Maybe. But its because she can be a ln interminable and humourless nag.
No_Challenge_5619@reddit
Yeah, I noticed that with Miles on a rewatch of TNG. In general he might say some that don’t seem quite fitting. I think the writers did well writing for most characters, but when it came to write for the NCO they went a little too far to differentiate him from the officers in a way that doesn’t quite right for Trek.
Bluelegs@reddit
Their relationship always felt very awkward. I don't think they had great chemistry. It's not surprising she was written out of the show for long periods.
Rustie_J@reddit
I genuinely think their lack of chemistry is a big part of why people hate her. The lines are right, but they don't feel like a loving couple, so then every time they fight it feels uncomfortable & awkward.
5hitposter@reddit
They did have a tendency to have O’Brien be an Archie Bunker type in some episodes. Having him express some out dated opinion for it to be called out, dealt with, and he grows as a person from it. Trek was usually pretty good at this.
Rustie_J@reddit
Comparing him to Archie Bunker is a very unfair reading. The only really "outdated" opinions he ever expressed were about the Cardassians, IIRC. And quite frankly, I tend to think that a traumatized vet who's still afraid of the people they fought should get a little grace about it.
Which isn't to say that Keiko wasn't absolutely correct to have told him off with the Rugal situation, & he definitely needed to work on it, but nor was it unreasonable under the circumstances. He wasn't blindly racist for love of the game, or out of ignorance; he was uncomfortable & kinda prejudiced secondary to deep trauma.
Lcatg@reddit
This! They tried so hard to make her the nagging wife when she was really just standing up for herself or others.
alexagente@reddit
Oh I so agree.
One of my favorite scenes with her is when she confronts him about his racist remark towards Cardassians. She doesn't get aggressive or berate him. She just takes him aside and tells him that what he just said was "very ugly". She's upset and it's not without judgment, but she isn't attacking him. Just letting him know how that made her feel. Great way to reach someone without putting them on the defensive.
I think people downplay her patience and grace and overexaggerate the times when she can be a little bit petty and/or occassionally overly argumentative. She's actually got a lot going for her considering her limited screentime.
Gestalt24024@reddit
That’s the exact scene I was thinking of when I saw this thread. She has a bad reputation then when I actually started watching DS9 I was surprised at how much of a mature character she is.
sirboulevard@reddit
They also deliberately ignore the parts where she shows him genuine love and affection too. The image of her covering Miles with a blanket when he chooses to sleep on the floor in "Hard Time" will forever be stuck in my mind.
Too-Much-Plastic@reddit
Yeah I actually tend to think Keiko has the right of it, particularly in DS9 though what they’re normally arguing over is married couple family/career stuff. I think it just seems bad because you don’t see a lot of that in Star Trek
Esternaefil@reddit
Keiko is absolutely usually right. The problem stems from the show not being from the perspective of civilians. In episodes where they fight, we almost always get far more Miles story than Keiko story and that can skew viewer opinions.
Miles is an old school Irish with a mid-20th century brain. I think he's meant to speak to the boomers watching in the mid-90s. But something absolutely falls off as we get further from the air date.
Xzyche137@reddit
I actually hated Miles, not Keiko. Lol. He just rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t even know what it was about him. Definitely hated Wesley though, and Barclay most of the time. :>
dirtydandoogan1@reddit
Misogyny has nothing to do with it. She legit is hard-headed and stirs up trouble. And whines CONSTANTLY.
ghotier@reddit
Keiko is at least partially hated because she was only in episodes that focused on O'Brien, which meant he was about to suffer.
Bill_Door_Et_Binky@reddit
The only problem I’ve ever had with Keiko is her lack of good grace in dealing with Chester, after her husband got him orphaned. Other than that, I am entirely on her side.
NightWolfRose@reddit
With Keiko it’s both misogyny and racism.
A certain type of man expects Asian women to be quiet and submissive to their husbands. I’m not entirely sure where they got this idea as none of the Asian woman I’ve even known would put up with that crap.
NameUnavailable6485@reddit
Barclay hologram episode was a big ick. If you can get past that he does some good stuff.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
Umbridge took umbridge with him too, since he's a Muggle.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
That’s why she’s called Umbridge!
JKs writing is just so clever!
/s
Esternaefil@reddit
His name is Lupin...
And he became a werewolf...
I mean what are the frigging odds of that happening?! Unlucky as hell.
Tepelicious@reddit
Dude should get himself checked for lupus.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
It's never lupus.
Empigee@reddit
In Keiko's case, it doesn't help that she behaved like an asshole in her debut episode. Not only does she call off her wedding to O'Brien at the last minute, but she doesn't even have the guts to do it herself, instead manipulating Data to do it.
DStaal@reddit
For Wesley he was also overused early on. There’s notes if I remember correctly from Will Wheaton’s book that early on in development they asked the writers to write several scripts featuring him, intending to consolidate the best ideas into one or two episodes - and then when they were starting to film, there was a writer’s strike, and they decided that they had all these scripts that they could use. So what was intended to be a couple of day in the limelight episodes became a more regular thing.
CosmicBonobo@reddit
I also think a lot of people projected their own insecurities onto Wesley. An awkward teenager who thought things like maths and computers were neat describes 98% of Trekkies.
HollowofHaze@reddit
Could not agree more about Keiko. As a character, I like her, don’t love her, but I will always defend her when the misogynistic Keiko hate train rolls through town
Cautious-Simple338@reddit
I’m def a Keiko and Barclay fan. Though I rewatched TNG recently and skipped the episodes I knew I didn’t like…turns out I didn’t see Keiko once. 😬
rickmccombs@reddit
You didn't like Disaster, when Worf helped deliver her baby? That's the only part of the episode but it's in there. Did you skip the whole episode?
Cautious-Simple338@reddit
I did skip Disaster. I didn’t care for it the first few times I watched it. I did not skip an entire season though some seasons saw more skipped shows than others.
ST: TNG is also my happy bedtime show that I put on with a timer when I hope into bed. Maybe I fell asleep?
dnkroz3d@reddit
"Get a life!" -- William Shatner
Correct_Building7563@reddit
Yeah its difficult to capture the journey, spirit and advantages of being young and having a clean perspective. Just brushed off the Welsey stuff as the writers attempts to bridge that gap.
query_squidier@reddit
I dunno, Keiko kinda sucks. I can tell you there's no way in hell I'd ever have married her.
wablewis@reddit
Poor writing.
The Wesley character was given a much more compelling story in Prodigy.
Barclay in Voyager. Kieko in DS9, though not as much or as well.
suddenly_ponies@reddit
Wesley was fine, Keiko is boring, but Barkley is great. I love every episode he's in.
Cassie-C-Stewart@reddit
Wesley was a bit of a jerk....annoying. "Wesley. Shut up." Thank you! Even the episode at the academy didn't endear me. He was too perfect, too smart, and too cocksure. Where was his feet of clay that a young person should have? And his end episode was so corny.
Didn't realy know that Keiko was disliked. She was a good mother, good wife, and a scientist. And Asian. Was it that she was "stereotyped" as the strong Asian woman?
I kind of got Barclay...the nerdy introvert with almost no social skills. Bit like my hubby. Can't say I liked the holodeck episode though. Weird and made Barclay just a bit creepy. But when it comes to characters I do look at two things....how they were written, and how they were played. Barclay had pretty superficial writers. He did well with the material he was given.
Personally, I felt the same way about Kes as Wesley. She annoyed me. Too "pure". And seemed to rehash the Wesley ending.
SavageRush451@reddit
No one likes the genius kid trope
NoSubject2336@reddit
So it’s not just me, always skipped scenes which had Wesley or Keiko in.
t1mwizrd@reddit
People dislike broccoli?
BauserDominates@reddit
Depends on the episode
Usagor@reddit
I dont dislike Barclay but how the writers made him take positive steps forward and then just forgot all that the next time they wanted to use him.
greenslam@reddit
The only issue with Barclay is how did he pass the Academy testing phase to get approved for commissioning with the psych evaluations? And how did he get posted to the flagship of the fleet with his challenges?
Why not on a California class? or working on a starbase? Or being placed in a space dock for refitting duties?
RedDog-65@reddit
Maybe his quirks got worse with trauma experienced along the way.
Cisru711@reddit
I just wonder how someone with his obvious difficulties got assigned to the enterprise. Like, I thought they screened for the best crew for it.
Fraylena_Frelthorpe@reddit
“Lt Barclay, has exceptional attention to detail and can achieve assigned tasks whilst having a decent degree of understanding of complex issues making him a capable engineer. He is not very adept at interpersonal relationships amongst his fellow crew but is well known amongst them and has been given loving nicknames. He is a superb system diagnostician and would happily recommend him for a position on the Enterprise where I’m sure he will find his niche, he will be missed by his shipmates.”
Something like that maybe, it is also possible that he scored highly on aptitude tests
Battle_of_BoogerHill@reddit
Nobody is really answering this. Why cant people with mental health quirks serve on the flagship?
Nobodyinpartic3@reddit
They looked into it the very episode he was introduced. So he got there because he was just good enough to do his job but was unreliable. I assumed he was too odd for them to train so his CO's got rid Barclay by constantly recommending him to someone else. When Picard got word of it, he decided the buck stops with the Enterprise and set Geordie to work with Barlcay.
schmitty9800@reddit
It definitely fits Picard's MO, he always wanted the best of the best even if they had some warts on top. He would have read Barclay's file and realized that he had genius in the covered up by anxiety and anti-social awkwardness.
Divine_Entity_@reddit
Barclay is also a million real world people, very smart but at the cost of anxiety and other mental health issues. Most just need the right support to manage their issues and do what they are good at.
Rare_Pea610@reddit
I have a coworker with mannerisms exactly like him. He’s one of my favorite people to work with.
cmj0929@reddit
Yep did that with Sito Jax after the academy incident, said he wanted her to make sure she got a fair shot in Starfleet
AlternativeGoat2724@reddit
In one episode, (The Pegasus one?) Picard said that he chose Riker as his first officer because he once disobeyed orders on principle. Picard wanted someone who would stand up to him if they felt there was a problem
AshBoom42@reddit
Barclay is a very good engineer and an out of the box thinker, he is more than good enough to be on the Enterprise. However its likely whoever transferred him didn't care about his foibles, just that he could be useful. Like every other minor character, there's hundreds of them on board and people keep getting killed or transfer out, the fact he lived that long says a lot about him.
Distant_Planet@reddit
I never read Barclay as having problems himself. It's more like, he responds to the absolute horror and insanity all around him in the way that a regular person, such as an engineer or scientist, might do. Most other characters experience unimaginable trauma and just shrug it off at the end of the episode. Reg is the only one who is actually affected by them.
Like, transporters seem nightmarish to me. You can materialise in a bulkhead, or be reconstructed inside out, or merged with whoever or whatever else is being transported at the same time. Someone could leave your pattern in the buffer for years on end, or it could just be lost entirely. Even in the best case scenario where the transport is successful... What actually happens to you? How sure are we that the same individual who stepped onto the pad is the one who arrives at the other end? I'm with Reg on this one.
VGuyver@reddit
It was explained in his debut episode that other captains and crews wanted him off their own ships, so they gave him glowing evaluations and submitted him to be transferred.
Thus ship after ship would eagerly accept the Change of Station only to be lumped with someone that is technically qualified but who's personality and lack of work ethic they did not want to deal with. Then they'd repeat the process for this compassionate reassignment of sorts.
In real life one would face stronger consequences, like required counseling, reprimands, and if there was no turn around, the most drastic is an involuntary separation from service, which is as good as being fired.
fozzy_bear42@reddit
He’s got the ability to make the cut for the Enterprise (as seen). But I also wouldn’t be surprised if he got wonderful recommendations along the lines of ‘I’m very happy to say Lt Barclay is a former colleague of mine’.
Hopeful-Moose87@reddit
For all of Barclay’s faults he was a brilliant engineer. I could see his personality quirks being overlooked for that reason.
Divine_Entity_@reddit
I don't remember all of his idiosyncrasies, but if most of them were just typical nerd stuff like anxiety, lack of confidence, bad social skills, ect. Then tons of people just like Barclay get their faults overlooked in the workplace if they can meet the technical demands of their job.
And often with the right support they can tame some of their issues. (Although they usually still exist under the surface, its just easier to suppress anxiety/nerves about something you are doing for the 100th time vs the 1st)
StatisticianLivid710@reddit
And from what I remember with Barclay, most of his issues were social and he was fine on shift as long as he had a supervisor able to work with him.
I’ve worked with a lot of people who were very confident with what they were doing, when they very much should not have been confident at all.
Solid_Horse_5896@reddit
That is very clearly a velvet dagger and is also a thing in today's military.
abigdickbat@reddit
They call it “foisting” on Curb
ThePLARASociety@reddit
Foisted on your own picard…
Locathor@reddit
I’ve never heard of the term velvet dagger. Like it and will add Silver bullet to the conversation
Battle_of_BoogerHill@reddit
People can hold a job with mental health quirks
Saint_Exmin@reddit
Wasn't it mentioned that one of the cleverest engineers that Starfleet has produced since Montgomery Scott, his personality issues led to him being passed around like a bad cold until he hit the Great Wall of Picard who was unwilling to just get rid of him unlike every other CO Barclay had ever had?
Revolutionary-Mode75@reddit
He was considered one of the smartest humans alive at the time.
GrandmaWeedMan@reddit
For the Federation, your abilities trump your personality so long as you aren't physically violent to others. This is usually for the better as well, but of course sometimes you get something like Barclay being a sex pervert with the holodeck. To be fair to him however, in universe Barclay actually had and was diagnosed with Holo deck addiction, which is an actual psychiatric disease they deal with often enough to take it seriously. That explains why the very progressive Federation are so willing to forgive and forget Barclay's incredibly inappropriate use of the holodeck (again, after being treated). There was no longer an issue after he was treated and presumably counclled afterwards as we see it not come up again, and to of course Barclay is actually one of the holodeck technicians and as such used them regularly without incident after his first episode.
The Federation humans also have an issue with sometimes not being hard and confrontational enough with these more fringe personalities, preferring to simply transfer them around until they find a spot where they fit in. This causes stuff like Barclay getting transferred around and eventually given the enterprise post (after all, you can only transfer a guy off your space station if a ship is there, so it's either the enterprise or another 6-18 months with some person you can't stand while you wait for a new ship)
Street_No888@reddit
I don’t think they did though. Each time we see Barclay, he gets a little bit more confident, but we don’t see him magically transform into a completely different person after one episode because that’s not how real people work. Big personality changes like that take a long time, and they’re not always a linear process, and I think we see that realistically portrayed with Barclay.
OWSpaceClown@reddit
Confidence isn’t a straight line. It has peaks and valleys. He took a huge risk going out on stage in his second appearance and it was a disaster. No words of encouragement from Troi can make up for the embarrassment he must have felt.
Objective-Wish9281@reddit
And yet I can’t see Barclay from the first few appearances doing what he did for Voyager. Standing up to his boss and stuff? Early Barclay would have never gone that far for someone like that.
Shamanjoe@reddit
He was addicted to Voyager in the same way he was holoaddicted in TNG. I can totally see an addict stand up to someone because of their addiction..
toadofsteel@reddit
I mean, it's not like addicts relapse or anything...
DadBodEatsAtTheY@reddit
Exactly. I've been clean and sober many times. I'm getting pretty good at it.
Shamanjoe@reddit
No no, not at all..
-_1_2_3_-@reddit
It’s called a hyperfixation, rude
thinspirit@reddit
Not addicted as much as obsessed when it came to Voyager. The holoaddiction would be a proper addiction but that's because his reason is escapism. Voyager he was just obsessed with.
He has an obsessive personality which makes people prone to addiction. It also makes him an excellent diagnostics officer due to the obsession with detail and having to obsessively tract down the bug or problem.
He basically portrays ADHD and neurodivergent behaviour in the series and how it's a double edged sword for both his usefulness and negatives.
At a time when video gaming and media was just hitting popularity it makes for good social commentary on how these can create an addiction to escapism. Often as these people get older, they learn to adapt and function better, something seen in his progression in Voyager.
colostitute@reddit
This is why Barclay is one of my favorite Star Trek characters of all time.
and1984@reddit
The actors playing Picard, Data, and Barclay were always naturally talented actors. This was apparent from their first scenes.
Rare_Pea610@reddit
Yes, when there are scenes where Data or Barclay especially are trying on a different personality and it’s shocking how much they feel like a different person.
DHooligan@reddit
Except for the time that we did see him magically transform into a completely different person after one episode, but he was possessed by an alien, so....
Longjumping-Solid680@reddit
"If I had a dollar for every time one of my crew members got possessed by an alien..."
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
Thank you. His Cyrano was a little on the nose (teehee), but it's something the first Barclay wouldn't have had the courage to do. And he was the only one who made contact with Voyager possible.
kk11235@reddit
I love that Cyrano scene. The way Crusher says, “That was a real improvement,” and really means “I’ll fuck you right here right now on this very stage.” In all seriousness though, it’s a scene that really puts their acting chops on display.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
As a theatre kid, I love whatever script writer decided to use that play to make the point that Barclay was growing. I also find it really sweet how supportive the audience was. They all knew it was a big deal for Barclay and clearly had grown close enough to be invested in his feeling good about his performance. There are so many choices they make in the scene that show us how far he's come.
Successful_Cry1168@reddit
he was important enough to be featured in a movie! that has to count for something, however brief.
AnansiNazara@reddit
MAYBE THIS IS IT!
apolite12@reddit
This was a huge issue I also had with Tom Paris and really Voyager characters in general.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
You mean like in real life, where you don't just shed your personal issues all at once but instead it's a gradual process?
CaptainCold_999@reddit
Like stalking his former therapist who was the fixation of his holodeck fantasies. Diana should have gotten a fucking restraining order against him.
Apprehensive-Tax8631@reddit
That place is not for the timid, cut throat
kank84@reddit
Maybe people are conflating because Dwight Schult is a bit of a MAGA POS
CoupleKnown7729@reddit
....i...
I wish i could unlearn this. ;-;
Dude literally played the exact sort of character MAGA would gleefully be mean and spiteful and hateful towards to feel better about themselves.
CosmicBonobo@reddit
Someone once said to me that the A in A-Team stood for arsehole, given that Peppard, Benedict and Schulz seemed to be largely horrible people in real life.
CargoCulture@reddit
T became born-again but seems to be the kind that practices what he preaches, so to speak.
Embarrassed_Bid_4970@reddit
He may have changed but he was also an asshole at one point. I remember this because he's one of the few people I remember my late mother calling an asshole. The context being she read an article where he had apparently cut down a small forest in his backyard after developing a tree pollen allergy rather than taking antihistamines like a normal person. Her response burned into my brain "What an asshole!" This is considerably funnier and more memorable if you knew my mother and her constant chiding of me for cursing.
SirStocksAlott@reddit
Is Peppard like Picard, but peppier?
PerceptionWorried284@reddit
Is Mr. T OK?
CosmicBonobo@reddit
He's a bit arrogant and shouty, but arrogant and shouty for Jesus, these days.
PaulCoddington@reddit
I have long decided to not keep track of actors in real life because of stuff like this. I want to be able to keep enjoying the shows.
Problem is, when you see an actor say something really off, the memory of that leaks into watching the show.
And with so much trouble in the world, being able to just enjoy an odd moment of escape with TV, movies, music, etc, is getting much harder to do.
CosmicBonobo@reddit
As a MSTie, it's a bit odd to learn that Mike Nelson is a hardcore conservative and Christian, although everyone who's ever met him - including his colleauge Frank Conniff, a bleeding heart liberal by his own admission - has never described him as anything but charming, generous and all-around lovely man.
KickDesperate5318@reddit
I compartmentalize the art from the person. Once art of value is created, the enjoyment of that art belongs to society. It's bigger than the person who performed or created it.
Like if we hypothetically found out Mozart was actually a serial killer, it wouldn't make his concertos any less beautiful.
shakebakelizard@reddit
Hmmm…actually, his character resembles MAGA and also the type they pick on, and also the type that becomes them in order to pick on others.
Underconfident, pervy, go a long way with a little power, awkward, unable to handle society…describes them to a tee.
Uvi_AUT@reddit
You mean he is like 60% of all people in the US?
kank84@reddit
lol no
Uvi_AUT@reddit
Well, they voted for this, and with a pretty significant majority.
kank84@reddit
60% of the US population didn't vote for Trump though, he didn't even get a majority of votes in the last election, and only got around 1.5% more votes than Harris.
Uvi_AUT@reddit
I dont really understand your guys system. I just know what I heard. That Trump won both measurements (electoral and popular I guess?)
Morbius2271@reddit
I like broccoli even more!
KittenKath@reddit
Oh…I wish I didn’t just read this 😩
Top-Raspberry139@reddit
Did we need to know that dude?! Fucking hell...
delafey1777@reddit
I prefer to keep real world politics out of the realm of Trek…….Whoopi comes to mind. But I love Guinan. Actors are actors. I couldn’t care less about their political views.
SuspiciousSpecifics@reddit
I’m afraid to ask but what onerous views does Whoopi hold?
CreepyKiki@reddit
But she also has said some controversial things that have soured people about her. She said about the Romani Polanski wasn't guilty of "rape-rape". She later then said it was about the legal charges not about the victim's experience.
She's also said that the Holocaust wasn't about race. She did initially support Bill Cosby but took that back when it became clear he was guilty.
SuspiciousSpecifics@reddit
🙈
OohLaDiDaMrFrenchMan@reddit
I just looked it up, and there’s not much controversial. She just has criticized both parties and doesn’t subscribe to either
SuspiciousSpecifics@reddit
That sounds… reasonable.
rickmccombs@reddit
I try to do that as well but then you get Will Wheaton basically apologizing for being white. Also recently my friend wanted me to watch a movie from the 80s with Whoppi in it and I wouldn't.
Luppercus@reddit
So he played a mercenary with military background and mentally insane who hang around with fugitives of justice?
Sounds MAGA.
Marquar234@reddit
Except the A-Team didn't actually commit the crime.
Luppercus@reddit
And also liked/help Black and Latino people
Marquar234@reddit
Sometimes for free.
ComposerNate@reddit
Murdoch?!?
Kahnza@reddit
What!? This makes me sad. 🙁
kank84@reddit
I'm underselling it when I say a bit
DanteHicks79@reddit
Like, anti-vax, full nine yards
iommiworshipper@reddit
Yeah that’s like saying he has a bit of cancer
SuspiciousSpecifics@reddit
*is
Kahnza@reddit
The broccoli has rotted 😭
Steely-Dave@reddit
Almost as disappointing as hearing Jay Johnston was an active participant Jan 6th.
babiekittin@reddit
It's what happens when you spend that much time in the holosuite.
Halloween5sucks@reddit
Aw, do you need a safe space?
unnecessaryaussie83@reddit
most people can seperate between a fictional character and a real person
GodIsAPizza@reddit
Leave that shit at the door. Fk all to do with tng.
QualifiedApathetic@reddit
It's a possible reason people might dislike Barclay, which is the subject at hand. Sometimes people transfer their feelings about an actor to the character that actor plays, or vice versa. Irrational, but it happens.
wheredidyoustood@reddit
Seriously??
DependentSpirited649@reddit
HE WHAT 😨
LeftEyedAsmodeus@reddit
I really didnt need to know that, damn
Moose_on_the_Looz@reddit
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
JimPlaysGames@reddit
He made replicas of Deanna and Beverley on the holodeck and fucked them
FrozenWaffleMaker@reddit
I'm not sure about that. Barclay is the kind of guy who can strike out in a holosuite.
Inside-Run785@reddit
Also, he says in the episode something to the effect of using them as a template because he just doesn’t have the imagination.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Computer, generate a conventionally attractive woman with a randomised face and body.
Repeat that until you get one you like. Modify as necessary. It's not that hard.
He did it with people he knew to gain a feeling of power over them. It's a deliberate violation and he should have been kicked out of Starfleet for it at the minimum. This has to be a crime in the federation
FrogMintTea@reddit
Georgia did it with that engineer lady! She felt violated and got really mad at him. Basically the holodeck rules are lax.
Tuvok killed holo neelix over and over.
7 had sex with holo Chakotay.
On and on...
JimPlaysGames@reddit
What Geordi did was unethical too. But I think Barclay was worse. Barclay deliberately created a hologram of his coworkers with the intent of violating them. Geordi didn't even mean to create a hologram of Leah in the first place. He got carried away and should have stopped it before it he kissed her. Again I'm not saying it was okay. I'm saying Barclay was worse because it was premeditated.
And yeah Seven was also wrong.
Tuvok killing holo Neelix isn't the same kind of problem. It's creepy and disturbing but he didn't strip him naked or anything. So it's not the same kind of violation. And in the episode it's presented as a sign that Tuvok is deeply disturbed. I don't think he intended to do that. He was trying to test his self control and was shocked when he realised he couldn't stop himself.
FrogMintTea@reddit
Barclay is the only one being called out. In the future there's no oversight whose likeness u can use. They all do it.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Geordi was kind of called out for it. At least until they had Leah apologise. What the fuck
FrogMintTea@reddit
Leah apologized???????
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Ah the end of the episode Galaxy's Child yeah
FrogMintTea@reddit
That's messed up.
Pinchaser71@reddit
Now that is funny!
Barclay is like “Computer, create Beverly and Deanna.”
Holo Beverly “Computer… two chastity belts”
Barclay “DOH!”
PixelFondler@reddit
That’s basically what happened to me in a dream last night. Which is highly unusual even for me (in dreams) but more than reflective of my real life. It was like a sign from my subconscious… a really really pathetic sign
Prudent-Ad-5292@reddit
The implication is that he fucked them but for all we know he may have just been using them for a dating simulator. Iirc he says he uses the crew of the Enterprise as a template for his characters because he has no imagination?
Is he awkward, creepy, and a little annoying? Yes.
Is Seven of Nine awkward, creepy, and a little annoying? Yes. Did Seven of Nine make a dating simulator of Chakotay, with the implication of fucking/having fucked him? Also yes.
Lucky for her "she's hot" and "couldn't know better" so she gets a pass on her negative qualities.
FrogMintTea@reddit
Exactly. Barclay's one of many. Geordi did it too. I mean how many people have used the holodeck for fancywanking?
JimPlaysGames@reddit
That's a good point actually. She should not have done that without his permission.
_Kit_Tyler_@reddit
Like Geordi and Riker were above ducking holodeck creations. 🤣 Riker fell in LOVE with one
JimPlaysGames@reddit
That was a fictional person. No real person was violated.
_Kit_Tyler_@reddit
I assume you’re talking about Minuet? Because Geordi 100% violated someone. He fell in love with a woman after watching her entire video-log diary or whatever, and then another time he did it with a professor(?)
I just remember Geordi being guilty of the Broccoli behavior at least twice, and as for Riker — from a woman’s standpoint — he was kinda pervy, too.
In fact, I’d argue that I’d trust Broccoli over Riker or Geordi any day. Mainly because Broccoli is transparent, and the other two are covert freaks.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Yeah Geordi is guilty too.
I don't see what Riker did as unethical though. He did the equivalent of watching AI generated porn whereas Barclay did the equivalent of stealing someone's private sex videos.
_Kit_Tyler_@reddit
Agreed.
ramblingpariah@reddit
To be fair, Barclay was got caught. I bet lots of people with holodeck access made representations of bosses, friends, enemies, etc. and did all sorts of things to them.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
The fact that a lot of people do something doesn't mean it's okay. Deepfake porn is widely considered to be unethical and this is the same thing but worse.
jointheclockwork@reddit
True but sentient life forms be horny. We've all done some weird shit we're not proud of when horny. Holodecks make that weird shit easier. I mean, you know wild shit happens on those holodecks.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Again, none of that makes it okay. If you're not proud of it that's probably because it's unethical.
ramblingpariah@reddit
I didn't say it was OK, I'm just saying that I doubt Barclay was the first or the last.
el_sandino@reddit
Awful to think what he might’ve done to idiot Riker
BommieCastard@reddit
He fucked him too
jointheclockwork@reddit
Riker is a bisexual man-slut and we all know it.
Xyldarrand@reddit
Meanwhile we all love Quark and he's got everyone on the station for you if you have the Latinum
JimPlaysGames@reddit
We enjoy Quark's character but we are under no illusions that he's an ethical person by our standards. He thinks women should be slaves FFS
LampLightMan@reddit
If a holodeck did exist... Well, that's a no brainer
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Yeah and in real life people make deepfake porn. Doesn't mean it's okay.
House13Games@reddit
Isnt that the point of the holodeck?
JimPlaysGames@reddit
With fictional characters sure. Not holograms of real people without their permission.
bmccooley@reddit
You wouldn't? I mean I wouldn't, but you know Riker did that for at least one of them.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
No I wouldn't because it's deeply unethical. Consent matters. Are you kidding?
rickmccombs@reddit
I think a lot of guys would have done that if they had chance. Maybe if you aren't late for your shift you would be less likely to get caught.
calljockey1@reddit
The thing is it's just creepy, they're using someone's image without asking them, he's self integrated, doesn't care about what may happen to others as long as he can prove he's right, whatever the outcome that's not a nice personality trait. As a kid I loved Barclay, I then re-watched it with my other half and just saw him and his actions in such a different light
NickyTheRobot@reddit
And he replicated Wesley to spank him.
... I wish I was joking.
emptiedglass@reddit
Have you met Wil Wheaton in person?
Don't judge me.
NickyTheRobot@reddit
Wil Wheaton is an amazing person who I will not hear a word against. I would gladly spank him or be spanked by him (given his consent, of course).
Wesley Crusher however is a little Mary Sue who I would never want to meet for any reason.
Kinda like how Louise Fletcher was an incredibly kind and caring person who I would have loved to meet, but I absolutely would not want to ever be in the same room as Kai Winn or Nurse Ratched.
_Nacktmull_@reddit
I mean, who would not like to spank Wesley sometime?
silentorbx@reddit
Lol that someone actually said it straight up. But yeah... that's what happened alright.
Cautious-Simple338@reddit
I believe you were searching for Geordi and his crepo replica of Leah Brahms or that time he was in there with a fellow crew member having his unwanted advances rebuffed.
Revolutionary-Mode75@reddit
I think it was so common that no one really cared.
Cautious-Simple338@reddit
Enable the perv.
Anticlaassic@reddit
My thoughts exactly!
Choice_Chocolate5866@reddit
I only like it raw, uncooked, manually torn, and dipped in ranch.
MSoren77@reddit
I get his role in the show, and think anxiety storylines can be well done, and I'm not saying his isn't. But he straight up irritated me. And I'm a pretty anxious person.
No-Onion8029@reddit
It's hard to get over the fact that Broccoli's actor probably wouldn't drink from a water fountain after Worf's actor. Rare in Trek.
gentlemandinosaur@reddit
Not then. They do now, he is a right wing kook.
Affectionate_Act_265@reddit
His fake stutter drives me insane. Terrible actor.
vampyire@reddit
I love Reg
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
I don't see people talk about characters they dislike often, but I've seen people mention him when they do. Maybe out of pure luck I've just been running into a small amount of Barclay haters.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Personally: I disliked the Barclay character as he seemed to be an overly-simplified character created to attack the “incel” archetype before that phrase had even been coined.
The show could have done something interesting with the idea - given that it’s set in a world where social and financial status is essentially non-existent.
Instead they just played him for laughs - joking at how awkward and dysfunctional and asocial he was. It seemed cheap and unnecessarily nasty.
Ok-Suggestion-5453@reddit
Yeah, his character doesn't really make a lot of sense. He's this incompetent weirdo, but he got on the best ship in the fleet? He's talented with making Holodeck programs, but he decides to do something he doesn't enjoy and has no aptitude for?
He's a fun character, but he's purely there to be a comedic underdog and punching bag. He's kind of the prototype for Boimler on Lower Decks, but Boimler is much better execution on a fleshed-out incompetent character.
wildskipper@reddit
There were a lot of opportunities that they missed. In their society surely anyone would be fully supported to overcome their inner demons, and society would be dramatically less stressful than our society anyway. So they could have had a plot line about how rare mental illness was, and calling out the crew for unwittingly subjecting Barclay to stigma because they simply hadn't seen this type of behaviour before.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Exactly this.
Also, given that Star Trek is supposed to be a post-scarcity society where wealth has no value, the only thing worth striving for is social status - to be a captain or an admiral or done such.
A person who cannot function socially in this economy would be as a beggar is today. They would have no social capital to elevate themselves so would live in poverty in a perfect utopia.
Barclay could have been really interesting - instead he was a cheap joke.
wildskipper@reddit
Yes, the writers never seemed to want to explore the topics of how the society or economy worked. We get some exploration of this in the Orville at least.
explodingtuna@reddit
I feel like TNG used Geordi for the laughs at how awkward he is in his personal life, but used Barclay to explore anxiety, addicition and other topics (as TNG does), while giving representation to a more average, less "perfect" people.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
For me, Geordie’s lack of confidence with women worked to humanise a character who was an all-too-brilliant engineer.
I also didn’t find Barclay representative, more a nasty joke mocking “his type” of character
uberrob@reddit
I say this every post I can...
Do I dislike him? No. Do I think he has any business being in starfleet? No.
It's ridiculous they've given him any sort of level of responsibility, he clearly cannot handle it and crumbles at the slightest provocation.
I know this brings the hate in this group, but there you go.
bootyholeboogalu@reddit
I dislike broccoli. And I made a whole post about all the reasons why I don't think he had any business being in Starfleet. And caught a lot of flack for it so I don't know there are some people that like him
Groady_Toadstool@reddit
I am just as shocked. I love Lt. Barclay. He is my favorite ancillary character.
momoenthusiastic@reddit
He totally redeemed himself several times in TNG and Voyager. Disliking him makes no sense
Rimm9246@reddit
Love him or hate him, Broc is the most relatable character in all of Trek for me, personally. That convo between him and Geordi in ten forward really hit home.
"You're just shy, Barkley."
"sigh... Just shy. Sounds like nothing serious. You can't know."
CodAppropriate6109@reddit
I think he was designed to be someone we don't like. He's the socially inept, brilliant engineer whose connections got him a job where he seems out of place but actually outperforms the rest. I actually know a few people like that IRL - not really likeable but geez, without them nothing would work.
Solus_Vael@reddit
That's Murdock to you.
TheRealSlamShiddy@reddit
I dislike that his actor's a MAGA chud
Troy_McClure1@reddit
I love broccoli eps!
The_Pastmaster@reddit
He's a bit cringe and awkward but Keiko's a way worse character IMO.
Westly is just an annoying brat.
Decent-Bed9289@reddit
I didn’t mind Keiko, but if there’s a character I couldn’t stand, it was NEELIX.
The_Pastmaster@reddit
Indeed.
squeakyboy81@reddit
Depends on how it's cooked. I love it on Pizza.
security-six@reddit
Let's just get that unstuck. Shall we?
xenomorphonLV426@reddit
i know i don't!
Imma_da_PP@reddit
Berklee is a goddamn treasure
Quirky-Culture-9264@reddit
Broccoli was one of my favorites but there were definitely a few storylines I didn't love as much. I was very back and forth on Keiko. I didn't dislike her but could take her or leave her.
Love Will Wheaton. Hated Wesley Crusher. Was thrilled when he left although I didn't mind his guest appearances.
occasionalrant414@reddit
Wesley was an annoying "boy genius".
Keiko was a bit of a cow to our union man Miles.
Barclay was the complete opposite of what we think statfleet officers should be. Don't forget, in the 80s/90s neurodivergence was not really a thing - in the UK anyway you were just a weird awkward person.
thruthacracks@reddit
Media literacy
hadji828@reddit
I was at a convention once where Wil Wheaton was speaking. I discovered that he was not signing autographs at that convention and I was curious as to why, since nobody seemed to be able to explain it to me. As I sat in the audience listening to him, I decided to raise my hand and ask the question of why he wasn't doing any signing when he called on me. When I did, most of the people in the audience turn to look at me and said, "Oooooooooohh!" like I had just committed some heinous crime. Wheaton smiled and replied, "Oh, so the kid gloves come off, eh?" He then proceeded to tell a story about being at a convention where a big fan came toward him too quickly (in his estimate). This frightened him, and he decided do not sign autographs after that.
I left that room and went to the dealer's room where Majel Barrett, standing and surrounded by fans, was signing autographs. As she signed an autograph for me, I told her about my experience with Wheaton and asked her why she wasn't afraid of the fans like he is. She told me that, for one, Wil Wheaton was "a punk" (exactly her words). For two, when she got into this Star Trek thing with her husband, Gene Roddenberry, they knew that fans were essential to the success of the show and she and Gene would always need to show their gratitude towards those fans. Then she said (for three), "What do you think would happen if anybody came at me or threatened me in this room full of Star Trek fans and Convention security?"
Before that day, I never felt one way or another about Majel Barrett-- she was simply another part of Star Trek for me. After that moment at the convention, however, I fell in love with her. ❤️ RIP
TessaQuayle@reddit
I hated Wesley Crusher, but I love Wil Wheaton.
I liked Barclay, but I despise Dwight Schultz.
As for Keiko, she's just mean-spirited. Don't know much about the actress IRL.
fictionfactory@reddit
Wesley is a douche in person and an irritant on the show. Never known anyone to dislike the other two
Sixty_F0rty@reddit
Barclay was good character. Keiko was ok in TNG but annoying in DS9. Wesley is just annoying and entitled prick in everything.
No_Pilarapril@reddit
I had no idea folks hated these characters. I particularly like Broccoli!
Useful-Guarantee-968@reddit
Was this only about Barclays,Westley was a bratty kid even in early adulthood.Never had an issue with Keico.
EX250@reddit
Rosalind Chao is beautiful.
xXAnrakyrXx@reddit
I guess im just the guy that likes all the hated characters. I always treated it as well the writers wrote them that way. So I become impressed with the fact that i dont like them so then I like them and its a weird paradox.
Neelix however I could never hate like seriously who tf hates Neelix... dont understand that at all.
STOAldai@reddit
Stilted.
Whiny.
Affected.
SplendidPunkinButter@reddit
The writers did Keiko dirty. We’re told the O’Briens have a happy marriage, and yet Keiko is never written into an episode unless they need her to nag Miles about something. So all we ever see is them bickering and not getting along. And frankly, as much as I like those two actors individually, they just didn’t seem to have great chemistry.
Queasy_Donkey5685@reddit
Them never seeming to have a happy marriage is a big part of it.
Outside the marriage we're shown Miles as someone we're supposed to root for, which is also going to bias us in his favor.
Especially when instead of a happy, healthy space marriage we do get the "nag". Occasionally she's supportive but most of the time she comes off like she's talking down to Mike's, regardless of the words she's saying or the context.
And then things got rocky when she wanted to continue her botanist career. So she goes down to Bajor and we don't really see any of that, it's largely irrelevant.
And when it does become relevant it's because she's returning to the station....possessed! Where she proceeds to be an even worse version of herself, especially to Miles.
None of the positive of their relationship ever stands out and I feel at the end of DS9 that a divorce would be best for them as a couple. They don't, because it's too late in the series to explore that and it's not like we got a good exploration of their relationship to begin with.
Lwaxana and Odo in the elevator had more depth than the whole of the Obrien marriage.
From what they showed us, Miles and Keiko both deserved better partners at that point in their lives.
sneeje00@reddit
I had a similar problem with Worf too. He's supposed to be a badass fighter, but they literally only put him in fights to have the aliens wipe the floor with him to show how powerful they were
FrogMintTea@reddit
DS9 took O'Brien and Worf and fleshed them out more.
And Voyager turned Barclay into a hero and he finally got appreciation.
sneeje00@reddit
That's a great point. I was particularly referring to ST:TNG, and DS9 definitely improved their use
FrogMintTea@reddit
Yeah I'm glad they got more attention later.
saintr0bot@reddit
Their relationship made me dislike Miles because he always came off as distant and like he was annoyed by her presence even though she adored him. Which is such a shame because he had great chemistry with Molly.
UsuallyMooACow@reddit
I think this makes sense because this is how a lot of relationships are, especially from different backgrounds
CodAppropriate6109@reddit
Keiko suddenly shows up in TNG "Data's Day" as an extra character with no background as the fiance for a "nobody" as far as TNG is concerned to show how diversity is embraced in the future (half Japanese wedding), and then when Miles gets a gig on DS9, they kinda have to bring her along so she showed up as a guest star in about 19 episodes (and they drop the culture thing), disappearing for long periods of time for one reason or another. I think of her as an extra that accidentally got a long term gig. Kept expecting her to get transferred to some distant planet or alien ship, but they needed her so that Miles could be a family man. All things considered she had decent writing for a minor character - she was no Dax but at least she got better than the Tasha Yar treatment.
Alien_Diceroller@reddit
She was offered a regular role on DS9, but didn't want to commit to it, since she wanted to spend more time with her family.
crymsin@reddit
During the 90’s she was in the Joy Luck Club which was nominated for a few Oscars and suddenly Rosalind Chao was getting attention. She picked up a few other movies and the TNG/DS9 writers and producers gave her a bigger role.
Altruistic_Fruit2345@reddit
It's such a shame she didn't get more stories about Keiko. There was plenty to explore there.
Lawnmover_Man@reddit
Yep. Those two always had a "this isn't quite right" feeling to me. As a kid back then, and as an adult now.
PhenexAlarius@reddit
Wesley disrespected Picard. The captain told him to shut up but Wesley just kept talking...for several more seasons. We fans take insubordination seriously.
scooterboy1961@reddit
Who hates Barkley?
Worf: Who can forget him?
In all the characters in the series he's the most I relate to.
YeahAzif@reddit
Wanker kid. Uptight bitch Boring fool
FrostnJack@reddit
Because people are pathetic. All three AND Neelix were fun characters. Broccoli and Keiko especially.
Internal_Damage_2839@reddit
People hate Barclay bc he’s a creepy dude and people hate Keiko bc THEYRE creepy dudes
Wesley is just annoying but I don’t hate him. Wesley is kind of a victim of the garbage writing in the first 2 seasons of TNG
Internal_Damage_2839@reddit
In retrospect Barclay was a pretty prescient character now that people are falling in love with ChatGPT
skeletons_asshole@reddit
They’re annoying as fuck.
BlackHatGamerOzzy173@reddit
Originally a Mary Sue self insert that got written better over time. Written to be overbearing. Written to be r/incel.
zapzangboombang@reddit
Wesley was a forced character with terrible plotlines. Get the kid off the spaceship.
Keiko was portrayed as a nag, holding O'Brien back. A lot of shows have Marges.
I'm not sure he's disliked.
CleverRadiation@reddit
Even though I disagree, I understand why many dislike Wes. He was a character that the TNG writers had no idea what to do with.
Persolboy@reddit
I don’t dislike Keiko; really liked pah’wraith Keiko and Ferengi hologram Bad-Barclay. Wesley’s fine as long as he “gets the point”:
nonlethaldosage@reddit
I always felt like Wesley got a raw deal he saved the day in like 2 episodes of star trek
Snowpuppies1@reddit
I 💜 Wesley Crusher!
I was about his age (maybe a tad younger) when I first watched the show and I related to him a lot - smart (sometimes smarter than the adults around me), but not socially mature enough to know what to do with it.
johnietoth@reddit
I liked all 3 of them
SodomyBear@reddit
They’re all bitches.
wekket@reddit
Who dislikes Barclay?!?!
cranky_wellies@reddit
Right?!? My cat is named after him!!
PleaseStayStrong@reddit
Gary Stu (male Mary Sue) and it never naturally blended well in TNG.
By DS9 she just seemingly existed to butt heads with her husband. O'Brien.
A mirror image of the typical star trek fan. A reflection no one wants to see.
Glop1701d@reddit
I like keiko
McVapeNL@reddit
Barclay and Keiko were fine, I liked both. Wesley on the other hand, him I wanted to strap to a photon torpedo from the moment he popped on the screen for the first time.
Knightstar76@reddit
Honestly, I don’t think they actually are. It’s just that the online haters are more vocal about their dislike of fictional characters. Don’t ask me why, but I have a feeling that it has something to do with them having an empty hole in their life and have nothing better to do than complain about something. LOL
Monkeyonfire13@reddit
Barkley is my favorite character. Who hates these people?
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Check the comments and you'll find some.
kyleruggles@reddit
Disliked!? I don't know why lol, I love all of the characters.
scottymac87@reddit
Wesley is Boy Scout wonder bread who they failed to make interesting even after giving him mystical powers, Keiko is a bit of a b!tch, and Broccoli is just a wet noodle.
arksnegative_ar@reddit
I think it's just Wesley and his male Marry Sue aspects.
pzero5960@reddit
I love all 3. So, I can’t explain!
Soft_Analyst_9081@reddit
Only 1 is disliked
Key-Brilliant9993@reddit
You have to put yourself in Barclay’s shoes. You’re an officer on THE most legendary starship in the federation, your captain embodies what legends are made of, your senior officers are some of the best in Starfleet..of course you’d be feeling peer pressure. And to face that takes real courage and inner strength. For Kieko it’s that she’s married to Miles o’Brien so I’m not sure why fans hate her so much. And Wesley… Well…he’s Wesley. He’s the son of one of Greatest doctors in Starfleet. His father died serving the federation with distinction.
milbfan@reddit
I like Barclay and can relate to him.
Wes didn't bother me too much, and I was a kid anyway. Some complain that he was the boy wonder who showed up the crew on several occasions. I can see that argument.
Keiko is the annoying one out of this group for me. Just whines too much and O'Brien is often the one to hear about it.
Necessary-Drummer800@reddit
Do people really not like Keiko and Broccoli? I mean with Wesley, I think a lot of the hate was born of a sort of jealousy-he was right around the target audience age and had plot-armor so thick that when he was actually in trouble it was hard to fear for him. Keiko was an unusual Trek character in that she wasn't Star Fleet-she was there to show a personal side of Miles, and the plot sometimes gets interrupted awkwardly when you have to eject the warp core by day and then come home to a wholesome meal, but that's on the writers-not the character.
OgreHombre@reddit
I like Barclay but I hate Barclay episodes if that makes sense. All the other characters seem written badly.
I like Keiko, but maybe because I love Miles 😂
I like Wesley, too. He could have had better episodes, but what can you do?
Fancy-Hedgehog6149@reddit
Well, Weasley’s early character was a tad obnoxious, and later a show off. Only after he came back into it from ‘being at the academy’ did he become rounded.
Kaiko is just constantly in her feelings, and more often than not playing the role of pouty and passive aggressive.
But Barkley? No idea. He seems like a likeable character.
Cigars4Gods@reddit
Why do people have a problem with kako?
Paintedillusion-7021@reddit
Bitch called the San Ti
Cigars4Gods@reddit
Maybe because she married klinger first! lol
Paintedillusion-7021@reddit
Wesley's a pansie.
Keiko called the San' Ti.
Reg is not disliked He was an extra that landed a full time gig.
DarthZoon_420@reddit
Wesley is a Mary Sue.
Keiko is a wife.
Barclay is Autistic, just like many fans.
PantsShidded@reddit
Keiko was just so shrill and an absolute wet blanket. The only time you really see her not carping is when she's possessed or trying to lure Kira into a throuple.
DoppledBramble3725@reddit
Keiko was so chronically poorly under written, after seeing Rosalind Chao in "1,000 Pieces of Gold" I can say we never saw more than a tiny percentage of her acting skill in Star Trek
Zealousideal_Fan_166@reddit
Well Wesley was unfortunately used by Gene Roddenberry as his personal avatar, in the fact of how he viewed himself as a younger man. Which is kinda conceited when you think about it, being the “genius kid that can figure out what’s going on when the adults can’t”. Even in universe, people didn’t like the fact that these highly trained and intelligent officers were incapable of doing their job without the wonder boy’s help (even Data was at times proven inept compared to Wesley 🙄). That’s why you didn’t see him in the same capacity after control of the show was wrestled away from Gene Roddenberry.
Live_Free_or_Banana@reddit
Keiko because she's a one dimensional character whose main purpose is to be a convenient foil anytime the writers want to use "the struggles of married life" as a plot element.
Loose_Concentrate332@reddit
You're not wrong, but when else is she supposed to come up? She's not an officer, not involved in the day to day operations of the ship... Unless Miles brings some baggage to work why would she be in the show at all?
It's weird, because essentially she's the only civilian in all of TNG that lives on that caliber of ship
CitricThoughts@reddit
She has her school and botany. They could have done a few plant storylines. The school storylines were pretty lackluster, though.
FrogMintTea@reddit
She could still have been written better.
Live_Free_or_Banana@reddit
Maybe don't portray her as only being a burden?
Maybe they could write a subplot where Keiko and Molly have to make a trip to Earth, and as a result O'Brien's performance, appearance, diet, cleanliness of his quarters suffers - since he's become so accustomed to Keiko supporting him outside of work. Show the positive and practical impacts she's had on his life (and thus on the station itself).
Loose_Concentrate332@reddit
DS9 there's more opportunity.
TNG, while I get what you're saying, it also sounds very boring and irrelevant. While it would help to develop the character, she's such a minor character that I didn't think it would help the series. Hell, Miles was barely relevant on TNG.
Then-Variation1843@reddit
We basically needed more scenes of her and Miles being chill and happily married. Theres occasional glimpses of it, but it gets drowned out by the marital strife stuff.
Live_Free_or_Banana@reddit
Or maybe just one single scene of her doing something unexpectedly badass; like saving O'Brien from a drinking match with some Klingons by abruptly chugging both their drinks.
Gummiesruinedme@reddit
No, she’s the villain of DS9.
stinkybass@reddit
Exactly!
gunperv51@reddit
Wesley is a Deus Ex Machina that saved everything in Season 1 which left a bitter taste in everybody's mouth (even Wil hinself hated his character that first season).
Keiko was naggy in TNG. She became "the Great Asian Human Liberal Savior" in DS9, who ended up having words with Space Pope Karen.
Barclay was the quintessential background NPC who wouldn't leave his Occulus sphere. He became an honorary crewmembsr in Voyager, but still retreated into the holodeck.
FrogMintTea@reddit
I thought everyone loves Barclay! He's obe if my favorites. I loved they gave him such a great arc on Voyager.
adamg537@reddit
Keiko obrien is possibly the worst character in all the series...
allenknott3@reddit
Is Keiko disliked by the fans? The other two I understand on some level, but hate for Keiko is something never experienced or heard before. I guess because some feel she is a third wheel.
BagOfLazers@reddit
Annoying - Misogyny - MAGAt
Mockingbird819@reddit
Not disliked by me. I like Keiko O’Brien, and she gets much better character development in DS9. I like Reg, though he was a bit cringy in the beginning. I adore Wesley. Full stop. He’s got some later era TNG eps where he appears to finally be going through his teen angst phase, but that’s normal 🤷🏻♀️
SirLevel5980@reddit
Crusher is easy. Overachievers are easy to hate. I actually don't mind the Traveler storyline at all, it makes him less of a precocious twerp.
Keiko is hated? That's news to me.
Barclay is a perv.
Every-Inflation9033@reddit
Shut up Wesley!
NarmHull@reddit
Keiko I think gets unfairly dragged, her husband/daughter has all this crazy shit happen to him and she's stuck out in the middle of nowhere space with little to do.
Barclay is a certified creeper but they acknowledge it fully and he seems to grow as a person. It's funny how annoyed Geordi is with him when he's no better with women.
NarmHull@reddit
Wesley is a twerp, it sucks that people were mean to Wil growing up though. I still find him a bit too much as the self-appointed nerd ambassador.
cidvard@reddit
Who hated Keiko in TNG?
NetworkNan@reddit
Well I like them!
holyquiznakanotaku@reddit
Wesley and Keiko for me come down to bad writing. Their actors did a phenomenal job, but the writers didn't seem to have a clue what that were doing. They seemed incapable of writing decent child characters (with the exception of Naomi and the ex-Borg kids), and it's only somewhat saved by Wil Wheaton being a really good actor. Keiko also unfortunately falls into tropes by the writers, they really fall back on the whole "nagging wife" stereotype with her (especially on DS9 in my opinion).
As for Barclay? He's just a fucking creep. I can't believe Starfleet didn't have rules about not making weird Holodeck sims of your coworkers. No amount of "redemption" or change is going to cover the fact he was a bonafide creep.
slimspida@reddit
The holodeck stories hold up, because they were what-if stories about fictional representations of real in-universe people that are starting to be very applicable today.
Barclay’s role was to be on the wrong side of that for story purposes.
His stories age better than the Geordie and Leah Brahams stories. At least TNG acknowledged Barclay was in the wrong.
Barclay was also a spectacular performance. Schultz may have gone off the deep end, but he managed to be pretty great on screen, and in general it was a good choice to introduce an anxious character into the idealized cast.
The management conversations around Barclay, and the mistakes they make in it are also very good professional lessons.
holyquiznakanotaku@reddit
For the record I also think Geordi is a fucking weirdo and creep for that episode. And just because the show acknowledges he's in the wrong doesn't make it any better. He still made a program very obviously meant to be a sexual fantasy based off his own coworkers, including the counselor he was seeing who was trying to get him off the habit in the first place. That's still incredibly creepy and messed up (and probably something the Federation should have laws about because idk how that shit is legal)
KickDesperate5318@reddit
I don't understand why people think Geordie did anything wrong with Leah Brahams.
1) He created the holodeck program featuring her FOR A LEGITIMATE ENGINEERING PURPOSE. He had a problem he needed to solve and was using the holodeck as a tool to solve it. Fully within the parameters of his job.
2) He DID NOT KNOW WHO SHE WAS before adding her to the program. She was simply the person in the databank who was most suited to helping him solve the task.
3) The only alterations he made to her in the program were to make her hologram easier to work with so that he could get the job done, and the computer filled in the blanks to make her act like she was attracted to him. He DID NOT do anything close to resembling what Riker did to create Minuet, or the things Janeway does to her lover from Fairhaven in Voyager.
4) She is the one who makes wild assumptions about what he was using the program for when she stumbles upon it.
Geordie got caught in a genuine "it's not what it looks like" moment, and did a poor job explaining himself because women make him flustered and awkward. It makes perfect sense they would laugh it off together by the end of the episode.
slimspida@reddit
He made several really overly familiar moves upon meeting her for real, tried to date her despite a lack of shared interest, and when confronted about holo-Leah gave an “I’m just trying to be a nice guy” speech that is still cringey as fuck.
At least with Barclay the writers wrote him as being in the wrong.
KickDesperate5318@reddit
You could have just said, "Geordie is bad at communicating with women." That's well established in the series, and it's not a crime; just a character flaw. He spends most of the series working on trying to overcome that flaw so he can stop feeling lonely.
If it gives you "the ick," then so be it, but I think people are WAY too harsh on Geordie.
Present_Lingonberry@reddit
They’re not good professional lessons because it tells women that you need to accept harassment when a coworker is having a rough go of it. The only appropriate management lesson here would’ve been how to conduct an HR investigation and let someone go.
seamallorca@reddit
I like Barclay and Wes.
JCEE4129@reddit
Barclay is not disliked. TNG under Roddenberry was The Wesley show. Keiko and Obrien had zero chemistry because she used to be married to Klinger from MASH
GaloisTheGunman@reddit
I like Barclay.
WhyDoIHaveAnAccount9@reddit
Yeah, nobody hates Barclay... Unless you're an asshole. I feel like he represents a lot of people who watch TNG or Star Trek in general
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Personally, I dislike him because he seems to be a mockery of that “socially inept Star Trek fan” archetype.
The show seems to be laughing at, rather than embracing, his differences. And this is about the only time the show ever took that line with any character.
The creepy holodeck stuff seemed designed to paint Barclay’s social limitations as deviancy. And I didn’t like that.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
He's not, he was based on one of the writer's social issues. If you think showing someone with social issues is mockery that's a you problem. Especially since Barclay is extremely competent and sympathetic. We're clearly supposed to be rooting for him.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
I’ll be honest, it’s not just the fact that they show someone with social issues, it’s the fact that they make him an awkward creep. To be honest, I think a lot has to do with the actor and the way he presents a character that he clearly doesn’t like.
The parallel with Geordie and his hologram character of Leah Brahms is a good parallel - we see Geordie acting in a socially awkward way, but we still like him. LeVar Burton still likes him. Barclay doesn’t get that treatment. He is portrayed as a creep.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
He's not a creep. He has his own fantasies, but people are allowed to have those. Saying he's creepy for fantasizing about others is puritanical (and hypocritical since except assexuals everyone does it).
And yeah, he's awkard. People with social issues are awkward. It's the whole deal.
But he's clearly portrayed as sympathetic in the text, and we're meant to empathize with him.
Do you have any source on Dwight Schultz not liking Barclay? He sure came back to play a lot of time for someone who doesn't like his character.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Ok. One more go at this - I dislike the way the character is portrayed, because the actor plays him as a creep.
I honestly don’t care what Schultz thinks, he played a character who could have been interesting and sympathetic and he portrayed him as exaggerated, caricatured, creepy and unpleasant.
The show is also not very sympathetic of him - his arc could have been more redemptive than it was.
Again. This is not hate for asocial, awkward people, but a dislike for when a popular show takes a character like that, and mocks them
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Yeah, but the character isn't portrayed as a creep, and not played as a creep. You're just making it up. He has his holodeck fantasies but that's normal in universe (and I would argue, out of universe as well). Other than that he's not being lecherous or nefarious, just incredibly nervous or awkward.
And if the point of the episode is to mock him, why is Guinan, the point of view of wisdom in the show, unconditionally defending him?
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Nope.
I’m done explaining that my reaction to the actors performance was to believe he was portraying him in a creepy way.
I’m done. Good luck with your life.
Val_au@reddit
I never disliked Barclay, but he always came across to me as 'too much', which made him hard for me to watch.
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Absolutely. It doesn’t help that the actor is going full-force at a character he doesn’t really like
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
His copying real people in order to bully or have sex with them is somewhat off-putting.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
I don't like how so many people in the star trek fandom police people's inner fantasies honestly. "Oh that character fantasize about that other character, what a creep". Like you saints never fantasize about anyone.
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
As someone pointed out, it's basically the same as deepfake porn, only probably worse.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
And as I pointed out, who cares if someone does erotic drawings or videos of me in the privacy of their own home? Like all inner fantasies it's only an issue if it stops being private.
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
Except, it always stops being private, and tons of people care. I think you are the outlier.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
How can you possibly know that it always stops being private? If it's kept private, we don't know it's kept private.
And yeah a ton of people want to police other people's sexual life, even when it's entirely private, because of puritanism. Because apparently the world is too fun and bright so we need to tell people to stop having fun that doesn't hurt anyone?
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
Because I read the news, and deepfake porn is a major problem. It gets shared. It gets waved around to humiliate the subjects of it. Even in the episode, people find out what Barkley has done.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
So the crime is sharing the porn. We agree on that. Just like I don't want people to tell me about their private fantasies unless I consent first, but that doesn't mean I want to forbid them for having them or vilify them.
In Voyager when Janeway (of all people) is in a similar situation she actually apologizes for intruding on the doctor's fantasies. I think the issues is that the holodeck should lock and be only open in an emergency, and in that case the program should be immediately discontinued.
DarwinGoneWild@reddit
You’re gonna swear under oath that you’ve never jerked it thinking of a person you knew IRL?
charlie_marlow@reddit
It's kind of a boundaries thing. Most people would be pretty upset today if they discovered a coworker was making deep-fake pornography of them without their consent or knowledge.
It's kind of a step beyond simply thinking about a person while spanking the monkey
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Would they? People can draw me or make deep fake of me all they want, what do I care? I'll start caring if they distribute it of course.
Pinchaser71@reddit
Let’s not forget that Tuvok strangled holo Neelix. Creating people you know to put a foot in their ass or murder them you’d think would be frowned upon as well.
I’d bet quite a bit of that went on that we didn’t see. I wonder how many times Odo and Worf or others slaughtered holo Quark? Probably more than had sex fantasies with him🤣
Present_Lingonberry@reddit
In a professional environment you’re expected to adhere to certain standards, usually written down by the company in an actual Code of Conduct, and I am fairly certain that this behavior violates that. So sure, maybe other people are doing it, but the second it gets discovered you should be disciplined and/or let go.
charlie_marlow@reddit
Don't judge me for paying extra for the holo suite program with Quark's head on Kira's body!
Jokes aside, I'm sure it would happen a lot, but it's still an ick factor to find out somebody is doing that and it just really portrayed barley as crossing professional boundaries he shouldn't
Pinchaser71@reddit
Talk about a mess for the lower deckers to clean up!🤦♂️
Interesting-Yak6962@reddit
I think you’re presuming that he’s the only one doing that. I mean, look at Geordi, practically did the same thing.
What’s really wrong with these people is not locking the door on the holodeck when running their fantasy program.
muad_did@reddit
Exactly, in TNG, it was the flagship ship, so everyone was "the best of the best." Even so, it's stated that HOLO time is "private," and yet everyone has their platonic fling with some holographic character.
But in DS9, the recreational sexual use of the HOLOs is VERY clear; it's a recurring theme how people use them to relieve stress and how various adult programs are sold. Quark jokes about installing the baseball program the captain makes for his son, because if he gets more family-friendly shows, he can rent the HOLOs to them during the day and use the evenings/nights for adult programs.
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
The only time Quark made a sex holosuite program starring a real person, it was of Kira, and she was predictably pissed about it.
dentimBandB@reddit
The only time we know of.
WhyDoIHaveAnAccount9@reddit
The purpose of that episode was to watch as he worked through his holodeck addiction. I don't think they were saying that the holodeck addiction was normal. There was a similar episode on the Orville.
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
He could have a holdback addiction, in that he was always running there to play war-games or to watch sports or something, falling behind on his work. They introduced the character by making his holodeck addiction feel super-uncomfortable and invasive.
DoctorMacDoctor@reddit
If I had a sheet of latinum for every time someone cloned their crush without consent in my holosuite, I’d have two sheets of latinum. Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.
captain_sticky_balls@reddit
Broccoli
Kahnza@reddit
Voyager made me love Lt Broccoli.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
He really is a hero on Voyager.
Kahnza@reddit
He just wouldn't give up.
JediMatt1000@reddit
Really didn't like Keiko. There were times she got on my nerves - never wants to be around Miles. Takes Molly away for weeks and months at a time. Why 2 people even stay together at that point?
Generation-Tech@reddit
I love Barclay! Always felt like a treat when he showed up, like Q
HotSoupEsq@reddit
Okay, I'll bite.
Wes is an annoying try hard who was written extremely poorly. That is not WW's fault.
Keiko is 95% of the time written as an annoying, witchy, bitchy asshole going after all-time good-time boy Miles.
Barkley was an uncharismatic incel pervert who ended up being an incel pervert MAGA asshole IRL.
Joe3Eagles@reddit
I like all of them. As a group, I like them specifically because so many ST fanboi snobs DON'T like them. If there were no cohort of those needing to belong to a perceived elite tribe, I simply be about them.
My favorite of the three is Barkley because he's an refreshing island of oddball in a sea of conformity. Also, since I watch TV strictly for entertainment and not to psychoanalize the motivations of the characters, I couldn't care less if he goes back to his old neuroses in every episode he's in.
I'm completely neutral about Keiko. She's cute, and she picked a good husband. That's all I've noticed about her.
Now, as for Wesley, I like him, again, not because of anything specific about the character. Not because he can be a little annoying, but because the previously mentioned fanboi clique despises him SOOOOO much! His annoying scenes don't come anywhere near a point where he deserves so much hate.
struckmatchness@reddit
Don’t like him but episodes with barclay are usually good ones
OutlandishnessFar473@reddit
I didn't mind Barkley, he had his ups and downs. Speaking from someone with high anxiety and depression I know how that feels all to well.
Wesley I grew to like. He wasn't near as bad as Alexander.
Keiko, oh boy, where to start. Whiner, seemed like a stereotype and honestly I don't think the writers knew what to do with her.
I would have swapped Barkley for Dr. Pulaski
KyleBirchton@reddit
All three are loved by many fans, but Wesley was the only one that took some hate from older fans jealous a kid was smarter than they ever would be. lol
Katie1537@reddit
Personally I don’t get the hate. I thought Wesley was great. But I grew up watching him so I guess partly it was that he was a kid on the bridge and that was really cool. I never got the Keiko hate and I love Barclay.
Chunk-Hardbeef@reddit
Wesley, because SHUT UP WESLEY.
End transmission.
cubnextdoor@reddit
She was a controlling manipulative wife, which was amplified when she got taken over.
Secret-Protection213@reddit
I skip Wesley crusher episodes because they are by and large for children and have the same relative tone as a home alone episode. There’s simply no way that in the future they have teens running away teams. I don’t buy it and it’s dumb.
lukahnli@reddit
Wesley: People are assholes
Keiko: People are assholes and racists and racist assholes.
Barclay: I feel like he could have been a really good exploration of adults dealing with an anxiety disorder in a professional setting, but neither the writers or the actor were mature enough to stick that. I get how folks would get annoyed with the character, but overall I liked him. I can certainly understand folks projecting onto the character the actor's toxic political views.
icland15@reddit
Shut up Wesley
DCguy_4sure@reddit
I had no issues with Wesley or Barkley but spot-on with Keiko. She was annoying AF. O'Brien should have encouraged her trips to Bahjor as often as possible.
Choice_Chocolate5866@reddit
It’s like you’ve never seen any of them onscreen
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
I never said I disliked them.
Choice_Chocolate5866@reddit
Then you haven’t seen them onscreen or you’re repressing their memory.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted your first comment as "to think people didn't like them must have meant you haven't watched the show," not "to like them means you must have not watched the show"
duckisez@reddit
Some of the best episodes are Barclays ones. The transporter one and when he gets super intelligent are great.
ForThePosse@reddit
I was only bothered by the chicken. She was such a nag and a horrible actress.
bootnab@reddit
Will got a lot of bad direction as a kid, Some feel Keiko's character is a spectrum of hen-peckery, Broccoli...sorry, Barclay is a many layered character who is just written as the butt of jokes for some reason.
gogs_bread@reddit
People dislike Keiko😳?
Rossdog77@reddit
Barclay is the shit ....dont you disrespect my man like that!
jakoglasna@reddit
I love them all!!!
trevpr1@reddit
The one in the middle cheated on Klinger.
hermiod1@reddit
Wesley was just a bit of a know it all and Wil Wheaton was not a great actor at that age in my opinion.
I never really got the Keiko hate, never found her to be a particularly interesting character but certainly no hate.
Barclay - had no idea there was any hate for him, he's a great unique character.
kathakana@reddit
Wesley was poorly written at the start
Popkornkurnel@reddit
While I personally love Broccoli. The first time we meet him he's pretty terrible.
RevolutionaryWeek573@reddit
I understand why people didn’t like Wesley but he’s about my age and I always enjoyed that character… other than being irritated by the way he was treated.
I loved Barclay and didn’t even know people gave him hate.
And Keiko, I had a crush on her so I’m biased.
BigSteveRN@reddit
Lol me just learning they're disliked
marie-90210@reddit
My opinion changed if Wesley changed after I saw him Prodigy. I use to think he was annoying.
Visible_Analyst5473@reddit
There is only one character I truly dislike in the entire franchise and that is Lieutenant Worf
2063_DigitalCoyote@reddit
I think the negativity with Keiko comes from the way the character was written in DS9 not TNG. She comes off pretty bad in DS9. Westley character isn’t well written in the first season of TNG - so I think that’s that characters issue.
richman678@reddit
Broccoli is a fan favorite. I was not aware people disliked Keiko. Wesley Crusher got a bad rap in my opinion. He was in the show so kids could follow along. They abandoned this later on and the character got super annoying….. that being said over the years i also started to dislike the actor too. So now im part of the “shut up Wesley” club
Big-Chemistry-8521@reddit
I enjoy all 3 tbh.
Xhsgf@reddit
I have no idea. I can't say that I dislike any of these characters. For me, Barcley has always been the prototype of the crazy but brilliant researcher.
Lord_Anthony_1990@reddit
I actually liked Barclay because he was played by Dwight Schultz who also played Murdock in The A-Team.
AnansiNazara@reddit
Wesley was the Scrappy Doo and it had NOTHING to do with Wheaton. I didn’t dislike Keiko, but her character was so underdeveloped it just got to the point where she was basically a reminder that Miles was straight.
I didn’t like Broccoli. The way people dislike Tilly, is what I feel about his character. He was just … and credit to his actor… just… inherently insufferable… and not in the gruff, FUCK YOU IM HERE TO WORK way that Pulaski’s character was. He was almost an unintentional Steve Urkel to me. To the point where I’m now questioning Tori’s counseling ability.
UmpireProper7683@reddit
Shut up Westley!
BlakJak_Johnson@reddit
Barkley is awesome. I’ve never heard anyone speak ill about him.
chronopoly@reddit
They’re really not. People just like to be part of the online herd that pretends to hate them.
Commercial-Wedding-7@reddit
Kaeko is just a divorce therapy wife cliche and it gives me chills. And O' Brian deserves some peace at home. Wesley is insufferable and needs to shut up. Barclay saved Voyager despite being a twitchy nerd. Love him.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Wesley is the prototypal Mary Sue. He's a clear creator's pet that warps reality when he's onscreen to come off better, mostly making other characters dumber to justify him saving the day. Prodigy or not, a child wouldn't tell the best officers of Starfleet how to do their job or save their bacon several times. At best he would offer helpful suggestions, which would already be impressive. He was very smug too.
People take a less dim view of him now because we can see the whole show on streaming, so we see the better, more flawed and sympathetic version of him from season 3 onward faster. But people back then suffered the worse version of that twerp for two whole years! No wonder they loathed him.
Keiko is often seen nagging Miles and her introduction episode wasn't very flattering. But she can be very sweet to him, and it's not like Miles is all sunshine and roses either. He can be grumpy and dismissive. I like Keiko a lot and think their couple is great.
People love Barclay, he's a breakout character, so the question is nonsense as far as he's concerned. It's like asking why people hate Data or Morn.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Read some of the other comments. It's not a nonsense question, there's a sizable amount of people who dislike Barclay.
Phil_Tact@reddit
They are liked....
MinuteOne1771@reddit
Their acting and the written for their charaters
Chippy-arine@reddit
Smart dumbass captain's pet, annoying woman, socially awkward screwup dude
the_duke_of_mook@reddit
Shut up Wesley!
ThatCrossDresser@reddit
Weasley was a weird character that felt like he was on the show to draw in a younger audience. He arguably got better as the seasons went on but he very much started out as a Scrappy Doo style character. From a Lore standpoint it makes zero sense that that some random kid is at the Helm of the Flagship of the Federation. Sure her knew how to fly the ship but part of education is learning the things you didn't know you needed to know. If Weasley didn't know he needed to turn something off because it wasn't intuitive from the technical manuals and accidentally fried an engineer who was working on something, Captain Picard would be responsible. If it was a trained helmsman who went to the academy and trained for the position, that officer would be responsible if they screwed up. Picard is putting his whole career in Weasley's hands and Starfleet command shouldn't be comfortable with a random teenager having Bridge access.
Keiko O'Brien was a little lower on the hate scale but there are a lot of mixed feelings with her. Mainly her treatment of Miles is seen as a problem. Many people feel she was brought into DS9 as a way to show Work/Home stress for a Starfleet officer. She appears to not respect Mile's culture but demands her's be respected, which is kind of awkward. She rolls her eyes a lot, is dismissive, and over does some of the stuff that men find annoying in a relationship. Stuff like saying she wants or doesn't want something and then being annoyed when Mile's reacts accurately to what she says because she means the opposite.
Broccoli... Er Barclay likely hits a little close to home for some of the audience. He is socially awkward to fault and becomes so stressed he doesn't always fulfill his duties and potential. He improves and eventually becomes pretty competent and develops some degree of self confidence. I don't usually see much hate for Barclay but he does do a thing or two that annoys people, especially early on.
At least those are my observations.
MovieFan1984@reddit
#1 Trekkies hate genius children for some reason except for Prodigy.
#2 They don't hate Keiko, they just wish she'd be nicer to Miles. LOL
#3 Everyone loves Brocolli.
Kendota_Tanassian@reddit
Because for lots of people, their personalities are annoying: Wesley is that annoying whiny little brat, which is made worse when he's usually proven to be right. That's a very obnoxious combination.
Keiko has a tendency to be written as super controlling and jealous, and those aren't attractive traits. Worse yet, she too is often proven to be right, which, again, makes her obnoxious.
Barclay has no social clues, today, he'd easily be classed as neurodivergent.
His obsessive habits are very annoying and cringe worthy.
Yet, he's also brilliant, in his own way, which again falls into the "obnoxious but right" trope.
I think whenever these characters show competence, or more compassion than usual, that triggers irritation because you can't totally dismiss them as just inept or clueless: they can be better, we've seen it. They're just usually not, and that makes it worse.
I think you get the same thing with Neelix.
With all of these characters, there's a sense that in some way their successes are faked, somehow, they don't deserve acclaim when they really have worked for it, because so often their characters really don't deserve what lands in their laps.
I think they all get better over time, as the writing adds more nuance to their characters and we get to know them better.
But for many people, by that point it's too late, we already dislike them.
Wesley comes across as a smarmy know-it-all, Keiko comes across as an overbearing bitch, Barclay comes across as a bumbling idiot promoted way past his level of expertise, and Neelix comes across as a blithering idiot.
If you watch carefully, none of that is really true, but it can be how these characters are perceived.
Just as Kirk is perceived as a lady's man that romances every woman he sees, which really isn't true.
I'm fine with all of them (though Wesley still gets on my nerves early on), and I don't think any of them deserve the fan hatred some get.
But I understand it, nevertheless.
Pale-Travel9343@reddit
I love Will and Barclay!
QuickBotTesting@reddit
Barclay is hated? He's genuinely my favourite TNG character.
I believe keiko is usually just misogyny
agirtzce@reddit
i always liked Barclay and Crusher 😅 I didn't care for Keiko but only because they didn't know how to write women well :P
Flannsie_Goblin@reddit
Barclay made a holodeck program where he could fight coworkers he didn't like and have sex with coworkers he did like. He's disgusting, and all of you that say you relate to him are walking red flags
Sure-Neck6095@reddit
Barclay is a bit creepy. The other two are fine.
Coffeeaficionado_@reddit
Is Reg disliked?
Interesting_Basil_80@reddit
I like them all
EmPalsPwrgasm@reddit
The Wesley Crusher character design philosophy followed the logic of "we want to give the kids someone they can identify with, let's make him super smart".
I always knew that wasn't me. He was just an unrelatable dork who got in the way a lot.
I don't have a problem with the other two. Except it was super weird how Keiko and O'Brien only realized they liked to have different things for breakfast after they got married. What's up with that?!
strangway@reddit
Yeah what was up with Keiko and Miles discovering each other’s breakfast habits the day after the wedding? I know what a girl likes for breakfast after the third date (if you know what I mean 😉, giggity).
Aggressive-Simple156@reddit
Willy D, I knew you were on this sub!
Thorvindr@reddit
As a smart kid in the 90's, Wesley Crusher and Lucas Wolenczak were basically the only characters on TV that I could relate to at all. Neither surprised nor bothered that Wesley didn't do anything for the regular kids. Go watch literally anything else on television in the early 90's.
Aggressive-Simple156@reddit
Same. I was smart and got teased a lot for it at school. I would fantasize about being Wesley crusher on a starship where those kind of talents were appreciated. The Wesley episodes were my favourite especially the one where he makes a tractor beam.
Odojas@reddit
For me it's that Wesley's character represented a severe form of nepotism. Just because he's the son of Beverly, he gets free reign of Enterprise where no normal kid gets such a privilege. And it doesn't help that his character is basically a Gary Stu where he basically is incapable of failing. Don't forget they wrote him off the show eventually by becoming a higher form of life (rolls eyes, thank God as well as the most cringe).
On top of this, it really felt to me as a kid of his similar age, he squandered this opportunity. Neglects aspects of the holodeck that I would've explored and, I won't lie I was extremely jealous of him.
IMO he would've been more relatable if he actually had flaws and explored aspects of "play" as they did with Jake Sisko on DS9 (daring David girls, getting into trouble with Big and Odo etc).
Past_Reputation_2206@reddit
Nepotism is spot on. Wesley was stationed on the bridge and going on away missions while qualified officers who had graduated Star Fleet academy and earned the right were left behind.
hypespud@reddit
Interesting, I wonder if shows are now better at communicating kids / teenagers experience now in movies and tv shows, or the writing might just be overall better, plus some shows center around kids
I think sometimes it is hard too, because the audience is mostly adult, and relating child experiences to adults sometimes involves just making the children act as if they are also adults as in their decision making process is too "sensible" maybe
I don't know, I don't watch enough tv shows or movies to know that, but I would be interested to hear what others know about that
I never had a problem with any of these characters, I just found them to be unique add-ons to the rest of the cast, I don't remember the third person on the right panel, but a wider variety of characters in TNG and DS9 just made watching them more colourful to me I think
RevenantXenos@reddit
I think a big failure of Wesley Crusher is he was the only kid on TNG. DS9 a few years later was smart because Jake and Nog get paired together. They can interact with adults but they have a peer and can be kids together in a way that's relatable for the adult audience. Wesley has no peer on TNG so the show tries to make him a peer to the adults and he just comes off as being an insufferable know it all. When Wesley does get into trouble he comes off badly because he does it all himself. When he gets caught it's always his fault and he should know better because he's the wonder kid. When Jake and Nog get into trouble it's 2 kids causing mischief and they either come up with a dumb lie, blame each other or one rats the other out. It's endearing kid stuff that adults can laugh at because it's relatable. Wesley as a character is like a 14 year old MIT student and that's awkward and unrelatable for most people since he has accelerated far past the usual social position for kids his age. Jake and Nog as characters start off like middle schoolers who grow up to become successful adults in a way that relatable and endearing.
AtmosphereEven3526@reddit
I think they learned from the mistake they made with Wesley when it came to DS9 and Jake and Nog. Even though the Enterprise D had families on it they never gave poor Wesley a pal his own age.
Alaskan_Guy@reddit
Like a lame Doogie Howser without a medical degree. Nowadays He just complains about his childhood to whoever will listen.
wanttobeacop@reddit
Yeah, cuz growing up with parents like his will affect you majorly for the rest of your life. Who'da thunk. Let the man vent
Alaskan_Guy@reddit
Its his job now it would seem. But whatcha ganna do? live and let complain.
Loose_Concentrate332@reddit
It's kind of ironic for you to complain that someone's complaining. It has no impact on your life. Just watch something else, nobody is forcing you to follow him.
A lot of people seem to relate and find comfort in how he shares his experiences. Why let that bother you?
Alaskan_Guy@reddit
Yet here you are complaining....It is ironic.
blagablagman@reddit
"I'll complain if I want to. It's comforting." - The Doctor
EschatologicalEnnui@reddit
The great thing about Wheaton sharing his experiences and perspectives is that you don’t have to listen to any of it. Or comment on it. Or complain about it. Ever. It’s 100% allowed to live your life and not think of his. The best part? Totally free, my dude. Doesn’t cost you a dime.
Alaskan_Guy@reddit
This thread is about how annoying Wesley Crusher is..... Its interesting that Will Wheaton is equally annoying. Im sorry if that upsets his D*** Riders.
Dwight_js_73@reddit
Go to bed Brent Spiner, you're drunk.
alainisard@reddit
Your complaining about his complaining is about 1,000 times more insufferable.
AquafreshBandit@reddit
I’ve personally found the things Wheaton has shared about his childhood to be extremely helpful. I’m glad that he talks about it.
Alaskan_Guy@reddit
I'm genuinely happy you find what he has to say helpful. The good news, he shows no sign of stopping his complaints.
heirtoruin@reddit
If anything, I thought Wesley was not relatable as an actual person.
rickmccombs@reddit
In case anyone still doesn't know, Wesley Crusher was Gene Roddenberry's idealized version of what he would be like if he was a teenager in the 24th century. I believe Gene's full name was, Eugene Wesley Roddenberry.
TheClosetIsOnFire@reddit
Literally just watched that episode lmao I was surprised
Distant_Planet@reddit
Keiko annoys me because she's just presented as a weight around O'Brien's neck. She's never making anything happen, unless she's possessed by a space demon.
The funniest part is that she's a trained botanist living next to a wormhole to a quadrant that nobody in the federation has ever been to, and she just mopes about, trying to run a school for the four kids who are on the station. Like, every time a ship heads through the wormhole, she should be on it. Literally anything she sees on the other side is going to be a major discovery.
Get on the fucking runabout, Keiko.
Rip_Rif_FyS@reddit
Hot take: hating Keiko O'Brien is the hating Skyler White of star trek. How dare this unreasonable bitch have concerns about how her husband's job keeps taking them and their infant daughter into dangerous frontiers and/or active war zones?
Gummiesruinedme@reddit
It would have been much more realistic if they were shown navigating a divorce while on DS9.
Rip_Rif_FyS@reddit
For sure that could have potentially been an interesting storyline, but I'm glad things worked out for the O'Briens
MinaZata@reddit
I've always liked Keiko and Barclay, apart from the creepy stuff in the halo suite...
Wesley. Meh. He could be a little grating at times
the_blonde_lawyer@reddit
are you insane? ?barkley is not dissliked. everytime he showed up we would know it's going to be a good episode! at least on TNG , I don't know how he was on VOY.
and I think that's the difference between him and the other two - he came when there was a story that needed him, and that's why he was good. like Q.
Wesley had to be written into every episode when there wasn't much for him to do, and it was bad. I heard someone comparing Wesley and Jake from DS9 and they said that since Jake had Nog to play with, he could be a child. Wesley had no counterpart, so he was being a child acting grown up and that was bad. but I think a lot of it was just that they didn't had anything to do with him for most episodes, so he stuffed into the story by force.
once he stopped being a regular cast member and only showed up when they had a story to tell about him, he wasn't as bad at all.
dividezero@reddit
no idea. I love keiko
ImpossibleFloor7068@reddit
'Cause modern people are generally fucked.
& their ego's are maladapted.
Those three are awesome characters, and actors. So there.
Arborebrius@reddit
Some people prefer to “look cool” rather than “be right” or “enjoy things”
ChaltaHaiShellBRight@reddit
Well said lol. Wesley is hated because he's smart, Keiko because she expresses her reasonable feelings, and Barclay because he is open with his mental health struggles and isn't neurotypical. I don't dislike any of them and I've seen TNG and early seasons of DS9.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
I mean, can you think for a nano second before posting? Star Trek is CHOKE FULL of smart characters, obviously that's not the issue people had with Wesley.
And again, Barclay is a breakout character, that's the opposite of disliked!
ButterscotchPast4812@reddit
Wesley is a Gary Stu and a creator insert. You have very intelligent experienced officers that can't solve problems but need the medical doctors teenager son to come up with a solution instead.
I like Keiko but a lot of fans don't because most of her character is about nagging O'Brien. Me I just thought that was pretty realistic.
Barclay is pretty well liked as I'm aware.
TheClosetIsOnFire@reddit
Is Gary Stu the same thing as Mary Sue?
flamespond@reddit
Yeah it’s just the male version
Fun fact the term Mary Sue actually came from a Star Trek parody
TheClosetIsOnFire@reddit
It did? Haha I learn something new every day
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Even better, it was a parody of the worse fanfic character possible. What did the author come up with? A secret sister of Spock.
flamespond@reddit
You can read it here (it’s very short)
Honestly I do see the parallels with Wesley but this is way more egregious
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Male version of, yes.
movieTed@reddit
Creator self-insert is part of the definition of Mary/Gary Stu.
Dehrild@reddit
As someone who binged TNG and DS9 blind for the 1st time this year, I think the Keiko hate is just an unfortunate by-product of character mismanagement. She never seemed unreasonable to me, but I have to admit that I got tired of her real fast.
We're constantly told from their first appearances as a couple that they're very much in love and a happy couple. But then both shows (especially DS9) spend 90% of their screentime together showing them bicker, argue and question their relationship for various reasons.
Thing is, in a vacuum, I wouldn't say Keiko is wrong or unreasonable in such instances, but the fact that she almost ONLY ever shows up for such scenes means the character's whole presence is just unpleasant and negative, rarely showing us any of her good sides or any of the good parts of their relationship.
For plot reasons it seems, they're BOTH always quick to arguments, and often escalate and let impulsive emotions drive their words and actions around each other (not very enlightened future of them if you ask me...)
So yeah, there's that awkward dissonance of being TOLD all the time that they're madly in love with each other and so happy together, but we almost only ever get to see the opposite for plot reasons.
If Keiko had been given the same "main character" screen time as Miles, and we got to see her be a fully fledged character in both positives and negatives throughout the show(s), I doubt she'd be half as disliked as she is.
krampaus@reddit
the only one I can’t stand is barclay, mainly because of the actor’s political leanings and dealings. love keiko, I’m planning to name a pet after her and as for wesley he was poorly written but not that bad imo
Snoo9648@reddit
I dont dislike any of them but I can at least understand the Wesley hate. He was clearly meant to be the noobie character that comes into his own. But considering he accidentally gets high and is able to take over the ship in like the second episode, the writers kinda sprinted to him becoming capable so hard that by the end of the show, he somehow gets superpowers to manipulate time. While he did have some leveled development in school, he was too perfect most of the time. Ensign Kim in voyager is who I believe Wesley was suppose to be but better developed.
Galromir@reddit
Wesley was incredibly badly written most of the time and the writers rarely knew what to do with him. The whole kid genius saving the day thing was also really schlocky and out of place for the show. It was a shame because Wheaton was a very good actor who was very poorly served by the material that was written for him. See Jake and Nog on DS9 for kid characters that were written really well.
Keiko is a lot of the same. The writers never knew what to do with her.
I think there’s an element of cringe associated with the character that some people just can’t stand; but also the actor is extremely right wing and at one point hosted a conservative talk radio podcast, and is still involved in conservative political commentary so you’ve got people’s reactions to that rubbing off on the character.
Neelix is just silly and annoying but also kinda creepy in a sex pest kinda way over Kes in the early seasons.
Aezetyr@reddit
Wesley was written as a insufferable twerp during the first two seasons.
Keiko had the nerve of being a loving and attentive wife who occasionally came off as a bit of a harpy because 1990s era humor.
Barclay because of the creepier aspects of his holo-addiction. Though he is seen these days as a poster child for introversion and autism-coding. I mean those last two in a positive way.
Safetym33ting@reddit
I would be a hopeless holo addict too.
wrosmer@reddit
there's a whole thing about the holodeck (or something like it) being the last invention of humanity because everybody would just go into one and never come out because why would you.
DennisJay@reddit
I would never leave.
Delicious-Explorer58@reddit
There’s no way Barclay was the only person using the holodeck for erotica
AJobForMe@reddit
Computer, disable all logging, set the program to delete if the door lock is overridden, and set the floor to auto-clean.
Living-Dimension-859@reddit
I agree with you about Keiko and Barclay. Wesley made me feel seen and represented for the first time ever as he was the only "kid" the way he was on TV. I felt seen by my Mother and Father but society assumes a lot about kids and I did not fit the mold. Wesley was someone I could relate to so strongly. I loved his character even tho I know that many adults watching hated him.
I do wish that he got less hate, tho, as I now know that his home life was very rough and I feel like the Trek community should be supportive of him and make him feel welcome and wanted (in a way that his parents never did from what I understand).
TheBl4ckFox@reddit
I liked all three of them. Never got the Wesley-hatred. I was 14 when the show premiered and enjoyed it. Only later did I find out he was hated online. Still feels overblown bandwagon behaviour. Kiko wasn't that big a part of the show. She was just there. Barkley was a great character and loved every one of his appearances, despite Schultz hamming it up so much.
Twigling@reddit
I'm mostly fine with both Wesley and Broccoli, but Keiko truly gets on my nerves.
Artistic_Dark_4923@reddit
Keiko is the typical henpecking wife. She puts obrien through hell, just to to change her mind on a whim at the end of the episode.
Sometimes I think the worst thing to happen to obrien isn't bring taken to Cardassian jail, or Agrathi prison...its keiko.
aesndi@reddit
Didn't mind Barclay. He was an interesting character. Wesley was ok...I think he was just a little too earnest for some. Keiko....I cannot stand her. She was horribly annoying and whiney on DS9...and honestly I think the actor was a bit average too.
Early-Bedroom2317@reddit
Love them all!
ClingonKrinkle@reddit
I honestly have never gotten the hate for any of these characters, I didn't even know people didn't like Barclay.
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
They don't, he's a breakout character.
Inside-Run785@reddit
I never hated Keiko or Broccoli, but as a kid I definitely got the hate for Wesley. He was written very smart. Maybe a little too smart.
But I understand now that he was really the only kid that was written to be smart on TV. Or at least very few. Most kids on television in the U.S. were written to be cute, and that’s it.
Now as an adult, I’m like “you stay in school Wesley! Be smart!”
CodAppropriate6109@reddit
I was a teen at the time, I got the message about what they were trying to do with Wes - do well and you'll get additional opportunities. And, adults are trained on how to use tools but they don't explore the more creative possibilities. People who think differently need the opportunity to shine.
I was really surprised later to find people didn't like Wesley.
punknothing@reddit
They don't. Barclay is one of my favorites!
Known-Ad-1556@reddit
Personally, I disliked Barclay as he seemed to be written to deliberately mock the socially inept / incel type character.
His portrayal was not in any way sympathetic or nuanced. It was the one time TNG refused to take the higher ground and just laughed at him for being a loser.
I didn’t dislike him as much, more how the show used him.
Grandfeatherix@reddit
I don't dislike Barclay or Keiko. although they gave her more to do on DS9.
Barclay seems like he should not have been assigned on the flagship of the federation though (better than the bumbling ensign that spilled tea on picard though)
Whestly was just an annoying shit, that seemed like he was there to give kids a reason to watch the show...but like super hero side kicks it was a failed idea since even kids found them annoying and didn't want to be the side kick
Gummiesruinedme@reddit
Wesley is mostly ok except for a few stand out moments. Barclay is a pretty an interesting unconventional Star Trek character. But Keiko is a terrible Star Trek villain. Most of her TNG appearances are relatively innocuous, but on DS9 she is the series antagonist and I feel bad to the characters who have to incur her wrath.
expired-hornet@reddit
So people love Star Trek for different reasons, but one of the most unique things about it is a shared assumption of competence and baseline trust. Stories about the problems brilliant people might encounter in a post-scarcity society.
The main characters are people who are good at what they do and know the people they work with are good at what they do, and sources of conflict tend to be from external threats that require shared perspectives and skills, as opposed to internal threats like personal shortcomings or interpersonal dysfunction.
The three pictured characters each represent, for better or worse, deviations from that trend. Episodes focusing on Barclay and Wesley tend to have them overcoming their own demons to resolve a problem themself, or the episode's conflict is otherwise connected to them. And Keiko is often used to introduce a personal conflict for O'Brien.
YMMV on whether those types of thematic shifts actually affect your enthusiasm for the show, but most of the times Star Trek has expressed more willingness to explore relationship dynamics as a source of conflict, it's drawn mixed reactions, even when handled well, from whatever percentage of the crowd prefers the other dynamic, which there are fewer examples of in media already.
Mirai182@reddit
Keiko ditched her veteran ex husband after they left Korea. He's a good guy but rumor has it he wore dresses.
silentorbx@reddit
I think all 3 characters were written for a certain purpose for the show within the confines of their narrative. But the problem for 1 being he was only supposed to be temporary and they had no real plan. Same goes for 3 but had a bad follow up. And as far as 2 goes, well I think personally she was fine for her plot device and not meant to be liked. You cannot write a story and have everyone be perfect after all.
slimspida@reddit
He made several really overly familiar moves upon meeting her for real, tried to date her despite a lack of shared interest, and when confronted about holo-Leah gave an “I’m just trying to be a nice guy” speech that is still cringey as fuck.
At least with Barclay the writers wrote him as being in the wrong.
Val_au@reddit
For my part:
Wesley - Cause he is too perky.
Keiko - Cause she is too naggy.
Barcley - Cause he is too... much.
Wolf_Puncher87@reddit
They're fairly one-dimensional characters that were often forced on us in an effort to flush out a more important character's development
kremlingrasso@reddit
Wesley aside (we all know he was a self insert of Rodenberry who apparently thought he was a mishandled gifted child...), the other two are good on one side that their episodes are usually "slice of life" episodes, and reveal more about the life aboard the ship, off duty downtime and civilian federation life, a nice change of place from cosmic threats and intergalactic realpolitik.
On the other hand their characters are needlessly annoying and emotional for the sake of drama, something starkly at odds with the professionalism of the rest of the crew, and makes you wonder why are these conflict magnets on a federation ship, let alone the flagship. Toss in Lwaxana into this as well.
We should have had more characters like the random waiter from ten forward who plays poker with Geordi and Data.
Rustie_J@reddit
Did he indeed? Because frankly, if Wesley was genuinely representative of teenage Roddenberry he should've just been grateful for every backhand he didn't get. I can't imagine a kid growing up in the Depression being half that obnoxious & not getting the shit kicked out of them daily.
kremlingrasso@reddit
Idk, I know he was a self insert that's why the character survived so long despite universally panned. And he was written as "like Mozart" and "right when everyone doubted him" and his arch ended ready to ascend to a higher level of existence....pretty humble right?
Burnsidhe@reddit
Poor writing and direction for Wesley Crusher.
Poor writing for Keiko O'Brian.
gotkube@reddit
Shut up Wesley
LastTopQuark@reddit
Seriously? Barclay was A-team! 😃
muterabbit84@reddit
Because Wesley is a child prodigy, and doesn’t conform to typical child development, he just comes off as not relatable and arrogant.
Keiko is often written as nagging Miles, and seldomly written as warm and affectionate towards him, in stark contrast to Miles, who often seems warm, friendly, and agreeable.
Barclay is shy and awkward, which is usually off-putting to people, but I consider him a kindred soul, since I too am shy and awkward. Barclay means well, and he has done a lot of good, in spite of using the likenesses of coworkers in the holodeck in ways they didn’t approve of.
DanielClaton@reddit
I am not sure, but I feel Keiko is a good portrayal of an East Asian wife. She reminds me of my wife. always unhappy and nagging. And her female relatives.
Sad_Breakfast_Plate@reddit
I like them all but have a hard time with Q.
No-Desk6807@reddit
Yes. Social group think. Somewhere it got started, and like a herd, everyone started to agree. No rhyme or reason. I have no problem with any of them.
mpire7102@reddit
Tbh there isn't a Star Trek character I don't like. I never understood it myself. Each one has their own story.
Basic_Bath_1331@reddit
Are they?
Longjumping-Solid680@reddit
Wesley's the annoying know-it-all-Kid trope, Keiko is whiny.
Barclay's fine, really.
Estarfigam@reddit
Wesley is a bit of a know it all. But I don't hate him.
I like Keiko she keeps Miles grounded.
Barclay is my spirit animal. Heck the work of Dwight Shultz (As Barclay and Murdock) shown to me it is ok to be a bit off.
tomassino@reddit
Barclay is ok, the guy has issues but, Keiko was worse and useless
AlgoStar@reddit
Wesley started as a pretty annoying Gary Stu. He evolved once the writing improved but never got over that first impression.
Keiko slander really began during DS9 where she’s written as just the worst version of the shrill no-fun wife. She’s really poorly handled there, unless the intention was to make her hateable.
Barclay is a weird creep. He’s an endearing nerd. Both of these things are undeniably true, often at the same time, and depending on which one you respond to kinda determines how you feel about his character.
dsainz31@reddit
Wesley is insufferable because he is awarded every advantage through nepotism. The Enterprise is the flagship of the Federation. Imagine graduating the academy at the top of your class and working your butt off to finally be stationed aboard the Enterprise as chief helmsman only to be sidelined by a 17 year old with no training who happens to be the son of the Captain’s best friend/romantic interest.
As far as Keiko goes, when she is transformed into a 10 year old as a result of a transporter accident, she straight up gets mad at Chief Obrien because he doesn’t want to be romantically affectionate.
As Far as Barclay goes, I have no clue.
bmccooley@reddit
Wesley was written annoying in the beginning, Keiko I have no idea, and as far as the character Barclay I don't know, although the actor is crazier than Murdock.
redbanner1@reddit
Poorly written characters. Wesley was a stand-in for Gene, so that was bound to be shit from the start. I love Wil, but Wesley was just never given an ounce or redemption in my opinion. Just one bad story on top of another. I kind of wish we would have gotten the version from Parallels.
Active-Tap-65@reddit
know it all dickhead kid that was written to be a know it all wonderchild. Written to be nagging bitch wife role that is there to be the fun sucker of our BOY, Miles O'Brien.
And socially awkward man that goons to holograms of women in his life. He's the man of the people. The gooner king after my heart
ApprehensiveLadder53@reddit
Crushers badly written. The other two I couldn’t tell you.
Alternative_Pen5879@reddit
Who says they are disliked? I liked them. The add flavour!
Alternative_Pen5879@reddit
And Barclay helped get the Voyager home!
Akimbobear@reddit
I like them and fuck anyone who doesn’t let’s fight lol
1startreknerd@reddit
I like everyone.
Alien_Diceroller@reddit
I get Westley, though I don't find him that annoying now. The biggest problem is the writers write him like they're working with an 8-year old actor instead of a teenager.
I don't get why anyone would have a problem with Keiko. I don't think I've met anyone who had an issue with her. It's a good portrayal of marriage between people who are kind of different.
I guess people don't like Barclay for the reasons the writers made him, but he's a perfectly likable weirdo. I enjoy the handful of episodes he's in.
TroyTrekker@reddit
Wesley is smugly hyper intelligent, Keiko complains a lot ( to Miles ) , Barclay is afraid of EVERYTHING.
FermentedCinema@reddit
I don’t “hate” any of these characters, but Wesley (especially in season one) was irritating. Barclay is one of my favorite characters! Especially in DS9.
ChampionshipUpset490@reddit
i don't hate them i actually enjoy their episodes
Longjumping-Top-488@reddit
Haters be hatin.
I like all three of them!
NewDad907@reddit
Wil Wheaton can be a dick, despite having a rule named after him addressing that behavior.
I used to admire the guy since we’re somewhat close in age and I grew up watching him.
After actually interacting with him online? He comes across as one of those insufferable “well ackchyually” socially awkward people who get weirdly aggressive over the strangest things.
Dude was straight up a dick, without any real context or reason to be, and he’s got a really unhealthy thing going on with his constant opining over his childhood.
Process, integrate, improve and move on with your life, it ain’t healthy to keep complaining about your childhood decade after decade. We got it the 5,000th time; you were explored as a child. It’s awful and can never be undone, but for the love of god it’s an old shtick.
Now Brent Spiner? That dude kicks ass and somehow we keep running into one another online. It’s actually kind of funny.
rawaka@reddit
As a preteen, keiko was a major crush of mine.
ithotyoudneverask@reddit
Annoying Mary Sue
Annoying Karen
Annoying Green Leafy
_Kit_Tyler_@reddit
Keiko is the ultimate Karen, she sucks. I loved Wesley (although the bear/cub grooming thing with the time traveler was a hit weird), and Broccoli was just someone I felt kinda sorry for. He seemed autistic af and his unrequited crush on Deanna was sad.
I would not have Wesley and Broccoli one this at all.
My three most hated would be Keiko, Guinan, and that Ferengi creep who would teleport women naked against their will.
Also I was not a fan of Tasha Yar, Worf, or first season Ensign Ro Laran(although she had a V Pet got character arc, imo)
Carlos_Spicy_Weiner6@reddit
Nepotism, not good enough for O'Brien/bitch, bad depiction of autism?
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Barclay's supposed to be a depiction of autism? I thought it was just social anxiety.
Present_Lingonberry@reddit
It’s a depiction of an incel sex perv who makes interactable full VR deepfakes of his coworkers.
FrostyMirror6162@reddit
I would assume Data - excluding the TNG movies - was more representative of high functioning autism and low emotional intelligence.
Carlos_Spicy_Weiner6@reddit
babiekittin@reddit
IDK if I would consider an AI who is relying on reddit & quorum as a sign of accuracy. Especially when the very first reference is Reddit.
LurkLuthor@reddit
Barclay is a loathsome toad and I always skip his episodes.
If you found out one of your coworkers was making deepfake porn of the women in the workplace you would not think "Aw, he's just shy!" You would throw that pervert overboard at the nearest spaceport.
Present_Lingonberry@reddit
THANK YOU lol maybe this episode didn’t get a lot of airplay?? Everyone’s like “I love that guy!” 😅
scrapmetal58@reddit
I love all of them
MattC1977@reddit
Who had a problem with Keiko?
IllustratorComplex13@reddit
Barclay seemed to by used in TNG almost like a future drug addict. Atleast that is kinda how it felt with the holodeck episodes it a addiction problem. Wesley it was the whole Bever Cleaver. They made him out to be from the beginning his character feel a bit wrong, maybe too goodie. He finally came into his own in the Traveler episode when he quit star fleet to go his own way. O'Brian's wife did not get enough screen time to really care about her character. Miles is the man he reminds me a little of Mr. Scott.
Apprehensive-Brush17@reddit
I don’t think Barclay is as disliked as the other two. Never heard people really complain about him before. 🤔
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
These comments are really funny to me, because they always seem to be right next to the ones of people hating Barclay.
Present_Lingonberry@reddit
Barclay should’ve been let go the minute they found out he’d coded holodeck programs to have sex with his coworkers. Why do people keep forgetting this? The man is revolting. This is surely against the employee code of conduct handbook and I have no understanding of why they treated him with kid gloves and expected the (female) crew to pretend like nothing happened and keep working with him. Oh right, this show was in the 60s…but still, I’m much more surprised about how ignored this is, especially post #MeToo.
Available-Page-2738@reddit
I like all three. When they are used correctly. In the episode where the pah-wraith possesses Keiko, the character is used perfectly. Barclay in the episode where his brain is expanded or when he outwits Starfleet security in the holodeck to contact Voyager, also great. Wesley gets a great opportunity in the episode with the addictive game that captured the whole crew.
Never confuse the actors with the characters.
headius@reddit
Nobody dislikes Barclay!
ervine3@reddit
Punchable know it all -basically a redditor/idk a little irrational and selfish I guess I don't think people really dislike her/autistic and a little too close to home for a lot of fans although I like Barkley
babiekittin@reddit
Kieko was written by men who didn't actually know how to write women (plus some were Boomers and welll 🤷♀️).
Combinde that with the fact some sci-fi fans find strong independent women as threatening and you get a hateful fan base.
EschatologicalEnnui@reddit
💯
Keiko was written exceptionally poorly, based on cliche and stereotypes, and from a deeply misogynistic perspective. The writers didn’t seem to have a seething hatred of her, but they definitely had no regard for the character as an actual person.
babiekittin@reddit
Exactly. She was written as a standard male boomer view of what women in relationships are like.
Fa_Cough69@reddit
Good God, you folks love chucking around your 'boomer' and 'misogynistic' terms...
I'll take 'Not have an original thought in my head for $500!'
babiekittin@reddit
Found the boomer who thinks "I hate my wive" jokes are funny.
Fa_Cough69@reddit
Thank you.
You just proved my point.
Overall_Falcon_8526@reddit
Can't do it, personally. I like them all.
I guess Keiko got written somewhat poorly on DS9, Wesley in TNG S1, and Barclay's actor turned out to be a right wing nutjob.
Dakka666@reddit
People dislike Keiko and Barclay???
Laxien@reddit
Keiko because Miles O'Brien is a fan favourite (who should have frankly been an officer, as he's smarter than many of that lot) and she is always whining, complaining and she's never very supportive either (as shown on screen - Yes, Miles says otherwise in DS9, but we never see it! They also don't fit well together, she's this "I am so refined and a botanist!" woman and Miles is the hard-working guy - who never had high aspirations/ambitions, despite knowing more about ships and technology than most chief engineers on ships!)
Barclay? He had ONE good idea and that was using that pulsar to contact Voyager (and it came from an obsession)...otherwise the man is a menance and annoying!
Wesley? Well, I don't get this one, I didn't think him annoying! Frankly, I think Starfleet did him dirty by not accepting him the first time (this crap about them only taking a few people? Come on if that were the case a lot of people would not have gotten in, like Torres (she's a brilliant engineer, but she's also undisciplined, quick to anger and lash out violently etc.))
Fan_of_Clio@reddit
Wesley was the embodiment of the 80's trope "kids can do anything" which was REALLY old by the time TNG aired.
I like the other two. Showed the family life side of things and that everyone who wears the uniform isn't perfect. Their reoccurring appearances in DS9 and Voyager were on brand for their respective shows
DRKMSTR@reddit
Wesley is a bit annoying and weak for how skilled he is, they didn't develop him as a character as his schtick is "I'm so weak but I'm really smart" copy-paste.
Keiko is just not as nice to miles as she should be considering the dude quite literally would die for her and did effectively do so countless times. But she's alright since Miles is one of if not the most selfless dude in DS9.
Barclay's just a bit annoying but he develops later on into a pivotal character, unfortunately they keep him annoying.
ST just doesn't have a good track record of developing characters to an ultimate end as that might play them out. Miles O'brien is the rare outlier as apparently he befriended the writers and other cast, was generally liked by all and thus gained a lot of interesting character development.
All that's IMO. I'm sure plenty of true trekkies would tell me I'm absolutely insane.
bearded_duck@reddit
This guy is looking for his wife
Top-Raspberry139@reddit
Broccoli is great and was a good contrast to the hyperconfindence of his crewmates. Other than hectoring Miles the writers never gave Keiko anything interesting or important to do.
Wesleys character just didnt make any sense. By season 3 i just chose to ignore the fact of his age and enjoy the show
AlarmingDetective526@reddit
Annoying, annoying and even more annoying.
Fa_Cough69@reddit
Keiko was OK on TNG, but was insufferable on DS9. Was always complaining about something or hassling Miles.
Just a general pain in the arse.
As for the other two, got nothing against them...
shut up Wesley!
ugh_my_@reddit
Barclay was a character Star Trek could do without.
abraxas8484@reddit
Barclay when he pilots the Enterprise
VanishXZone@reddit
Who dislikes Barclay? Them’s fighting’ words!
Rocketboy1313@reddit
What is strange about Wesley is just how out of step the character is with science fiction of that era.
The idea of a whiz kid tech genius feels like something out of a children's cartoon. You have Jimmy Neutron surrounded by Naval Officers and it is such a bad fit.
He could work if he was treated like Nog. Starting out as a more troubled kid because his dad's death and resentment toward Picard, but as time goes on he matures and his talents start to shine. But he was Gene's self insert character who is the ultimate genius who starts ruining everything and saving the day from episode 3. It is madness.
Leucurus@reddit
People like and dislike different things, don't worry about what other people like, just enjoy yourself. Plenty of people in the fandom do like these characters
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
I'm not going to stop liking a character because other people dislike them, it's just nice to see other perspectives.
cosmicradia@reddit
Have you sen the show?
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Yes.
Annahsbananas@reddit
wtf we all love Broccoli
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Read some of the other characters, I like him but sizable amount of others don't.
maaaxheadroom@reddit
I don’t know. I love Keiko as a character and the actress is beautiful. Barclay is a flawed individual surrounded by excellence, in any sitcom he’d be there for the laughs. Wesley is annoying but I like how he has successes and failures.
SargeMaximus@reddit
I love Barkley what are you smoking?
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
I like him too, others don't
summerlea1@reddit
Barkley is not disliked. He’s a huge fan favorite.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
There's a large amount of people who disagree, just read the other comments.
ImInTheMealDeal@reddit
They're not bad people, they're just written that way.
Character_Pop_6628@reddit
Can someone explain why everyone on the bridge crew seems to dislike Worf??? Like, reasonable caution... "Shut up Klingon" ... he's always right. He's the security officer. How often would listening to Worf evade disaster??
KlatuSatori@reddit
Unpopular opinion I guess but I like Wesley.
Long_Pig_Tailor@reddit
No good reason, racism, ick
loachlover@reddit
Because some fans suck. Those characters all rule.
Odd_Order_4217@reddit
I love Barclay! He's quality crippling anxiety representation and I appreciate that. I love how everyone is shitty to him and then Picard is like "you guys...stop?" and everyone is like oh right we should probably stop. And then Geordi goes out of his way to be nice and Barclay actually gains confidence and gets a little less sad. I also I LOVE Nth degree, one of the best episodes imo. Why anyone would care about Keiko one way or another is beyond me, she's just a meh background character. Wesley I do hate a lot tho for being annoying, which is an irrational lizard brain thing with no justification
Key-Difficulty5123@reddit
I don’t dislike Barclay or Keilo. Wheaton can be a little annoying but not too bad.
Random-Human-1138@reddit
Haters are going to hate. I think it's as simple as that.
BikeValuable9201@reddit
What’s wrong with Barcley and Keiko?
ZeloZelatusSum@reddit
Wesley, to myself and from what I can gather from others, can be a bit annoying for a few reasons. He sometimes comes off as a know-it-all, and tends to pull the solution to the problem of the day out of nowhere at the last moment and tends to show up the members of the crew. Keiko kind of has this high and mighty attitude, and has a tendency to snap at people when she responds to them or their ideas. Barclay..well, in his case I take it that people who don't have much patience for neurotic types or people who worry would find him annoying. Personally, if I was a crew member on board a Starfleet vessel. I would need a steady dose of anti-anxiety medication and would constantly be needing to put on sleep sounds and an eye mask just to relax myself from the constant, insane things that are going on around me in space.
dropdedgor@reddit
Episode 1 of TNG I was like, "I don't care about this dumb kid". But then by episode 5 I'm thinking, "How did the Enterprise manage to stay alive all this time without Wesley's help?"
Bottlecrate@reddit
They are not.
Wyluli_Wolf@reddit
Barclay is not disliked. Barclay is my hero!
ProfessionalCoat8512@reddit
Well, I’m a little younger than crusher and as a gay boy I had a super crush on him so he was like my teen heart throb.
Keiko I always liked but she should have gotten more of a focus.. like what was a day in her life like.
Barkley was just annoying.
Short_Fill9565@reddit
TiredCeresian@reddit
Wesley and Keiko are perfect cinnamon rolls. Barclay is doing his best.
porkchopexpress-1373@reddit
They’re not disliked
takkun169@reddit
Wesley because he's an annoying know it all.
Barkley because it feels a little out of step work Star Trek to have a guy this late in life to just now be coming to teams with his anxiety. I feel like it would be more believable for him to have developed tools to deal with it during academy.
Keiko because she's a woman.
To be clear, I don't hate these characters, but it's the impression I get from those who do.
fsantos0213@reddit
ekkidee@reddit
lol
SuccessfulRegister43@reddit
Who hates Keiko? Miles is batting way out of his league. She’s a saint.
And who hates Barclay? Dude has got a disorder, but has to work evry day in the Enterprise, where everybody is perfect 24/7.
Fuck Wesley.
ekkidee@reddit
Wil Wheaton was brought in to appeal to a younger audience and it didn't really work. At first he was an agent of chaos with his experiments and so on, but after he came back as an ensign he was just boring. The episodes with the Traveler are kind of lame. He was always saving the ship or some crazy nonsense. I forget what happened at the end of his character arc because I don't remember him at all from S.7.
I thought Keiko was ok, and I liked Barclay because I could identify.
Lynthae@reddit
The keiko hate is ridiculous to me. She's a treasure of a wife.
ExpensiveActuator880@reddit
Bit really come across any posts where they are disliked 🤷
Mono_Morphs@reddit
For some I could see it being that they just weren’t wanting to watch a a b-storyline, I know they’re all characters in the show, but I know at least for myself I was always a bit deflated when I found out it was focused on not-Picard/riker/data/crusher/deanna
funlovingguy9001@reddit
Keiko to me was just so irritating. One thing that irritated me was their food choices and diets. She fully expected him to eat and enjoy her cultural food, but wasn't even willing to try his. I remember the episode where he went out of his way to make her a very traditional meal from his culture he was so proud of it, and so excited to share it with her and she was disgusted and wouldn't even sample it (if I am recalling correctly). She just seemed to be constantly nagging him. I just found their entire relationship and interaction irritating and frustrating to watch.
Next_Pianist_442@reddit
These three are disliked?
Retinoid634@reddit
I like them all. Idk.
crozinator33@reddit
Weenie, Nag, Scaredy Cat.
flamingfaery162@reddit
No idea why no one likes Wesley but Keiko and Barkley are just annoying whiny bitches to me.
By_Grabthars_Hammer_@reddit
Reginald Barkley? Disliked? Who made this list? That man is beloved throughout TNG and Voyager.
MetaVulture@reddit
How dare anyone disrespect my boy Broccoli
Spikethevampire96@reddit
Wesley is seen as a useless nerd
Barclay is largely seen as the one annoying perpetually nervous guy
And I don't know who that other guy is so I couldn't tell ya
factoid_@reddit
I get why people dislike Keiko…she’s a total shrew.
I never understood the Wesley hate. I never knew people didn’t like Barkley. He was awkward and weird sure…I guess he was just too much of an audience stand-in?
We all want to be Picard and Riker but we’re probably all more like Barkley
Redbettyt47@reddit
I like all three and appreciate them more with each rewatch.
cosimoiaia@reddit
But I love Broccoli. Ehm, I mean Barclay!
No-Scheme-5370@reddit
What makes Barclay icky is the same thing geordi did, so...
Upbeat_Leader_7185@reddit
Wesley was for the most part a suck. Keiko was a horrible chariacature of a needy wife. Barkley rally wasn't bad in tng, but I didnt like the way they shoehorned him into voyager
Toilet_Reading_@reddit
Barclay was awesome!
salsa_leeem@reddit
I like all of em in their own way, but they did broccoli wrong I will admit
CB_Chuckles@reddit
Are Keiko and Barclay disliked? I always liked them both.
Ragnarok345@reddit
Because people are stupid. Who the hell cares? Like who you like and don’t let others bother you.
Advanced-Sherbert-29@reddit
...Are they?
I mean, Wesley sure, everybody knows about the hate he got. But since when were Keiko or Barclay known for being hated?
Dependent_Unit_5039@reddit
I’m gonna tell web
Standard-Outcome9881@reddit
What monster dislikes Keiko? Madness!
commandrix@reddit
Wesley Crusher: He's the kid who wormed his way onto the bridge of the Enterprise because the Captain knew his dad.
TriRedditops@reddit
He may have had a line to the bridge but Picard didn't really want him there. The reason he got more access wasn't nepotism, it was that The Traveler told Picard that Wesley was special, like Motzart, but for engineering and time and space. He asked Picard to have the crew mentor and nurture him.
redruM69@reddit
I mean, Picard was responsible for Wesley's father's death. So I believe some leeway was warranted.
Not Picard's fault, but ultimately responsible as his commanding officer..
CrispinCain@reddit
Wesley Crusher: IMHO, this guy should have been split into 2 characters: the preteen wunderkind, and the young adult Ensign, fresh from the academy.
As-is, Wheaton was severely mistreated by the guys running the show. Dude deserved better.
VRC_Kor@reddit
Not seeing it.. I like all three characters and I like the actors personally as well
mackam1@reddit
But Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiles!
SirStocksAlott@reddit
I’ll make you a breakfast from my family, but will never try any of your family’s breakfast. Corned beef hash, sounds kind of heavy… disgusted face
Sohozoso@reddit
Hahahaha I so heard it when I read 😂
Equivalent_Lab_8610@reddit
Keiko was one of my favorites, I never knew anyone took issue with her. But, I like Wesley and Barclay too
SchmarekOfVulcan@reddit
Wesley: made our faves look stupid by remembering Lore uses contractions
Barclay: Republican
Keiko: revealed Earth's location to hostile aliens
GreenLadyFox@reddit
No idea. Wesley appealed to me as a nerdy dork kid. Didn’t hurt he was my age at the time. The other two ::shrug:: no clue the hate on for them
EngagedInConvexation@reddit
There ain't a Reg episode I can even come close to disliking. He rules. Wes has his moments and is at the very least involved in some good episodes. Keiko I don't feel particularly one way or the other, but I like her in "Data's Day."
poindexterg@reddit
Wesley started out as the Boy Wonder. Super intelligent kid that could always save the day. They started to do more with him later on, and he got better (even though he never really dropped the "Ah, shucks" factor.) A lot of fans just see season 1 Wesley and they never moved past that.
Keiko falls victim to being the emotional wife a lot of the time. The large majority of her scenes are either interpersonal conflict with Miles, or her freaking out because of what is happening to Miles or Molly. I'm not saying that's all that Keiko has, but it is a bunch of her scenes on TNG and DS9. So she's upset and high strung in a lot of scenes. That can get very grating, and it's why it's important to put in a few scenes of Keiko and Miles in a normal state. I don't know that they did that quite enough.
Barclay, well, he's just an odd character, and he's played for comedy as often as he's played straight. That's just not everyone's thing. I'll say that I don't hear too many complain about Barclay. I think they strike the balance of light-hearted and serious with him.
DIGITALOGIK@reddit
Wesley is annoying. Kieko is a bitch. And I love Barcley
Adventurous_Topic202@reddit
Wesley is annoying. Keiko is irrational. Any Barclay hate is just wrong.
mere_iguana@reddit
wuss, psycho, creep
Ferrindel@reddit
I’m burning through TNG while painting (I know, I’m three decades late), but Wesley comes off as an enlightened Pollyanna. But I will say, I’m warming up to him a LOT towards the end of season 1, so I suspect I’ll love him once I finish
PuzzleheadedLeader79@reddit
Keiko contacted murder aliens to come murder us all!!
Oh this isn't /r/shittydaystrom
I don't get the hate for her either. I always understood her motivations. I think, and note it's just my theory, but it's that we never see her and O'Brien at their best, moreso when they have drama, so people associate her with drama.
MAJORMETAL84@reddit
Shut up Wesley!
ChuckBoth@reddit
I like Barclay! Keiko(spelling?) is ok. Wesley needs to shut up.
Visible_Voice_4738@reddit
Wesley came off as smug and entitled. As for the rest I can't say maybe some found Keiko (spelling) kind of demanding of Miles time and attention and Barkley was way outside the mode of everyone else.
I do wonder how he graduated Star Fleet academy with all his ticks and such.
heirtoruin@reddit
I like them all.
Enough_Internal_9025@reddit
Let me preface by saying I don’t hate these characters. But I can see why they could potentially be disliked.
Wesley: My problem is that in the early years of the show there was a lot of “Wesley save the ship” kind of stuff.
Keiko: I don’t get at all she’s fine.
Barkley: In hindsight is kind of weird and does a lot of things that would probably at least get him kicked out of Starfleet. He basically made Hologram sex dolls and we all know it. But besides that his character development was inconsistent and was just the go to for when they needed a character to be weird about something.
BigDKane@reddit
"WHY WOULD ANYONE DO DRUGS?" WESLEY CRUSHER LOOKING DIRECTLY AT THE AUDIENCE
SportTop2610@reddit
Not my opinion:
Westley: knowingly. (Tone down your vocabulary when you speak to people in ten forward)
Kaiko: I never remember her being disliked by any viewer, but I could wager her speaking like an officer rather than a civilian. (A week, TEN DAYS)
Barkley: annoying but brilliant. Whiny. Had rhe answer ans knowledge but not the self assurance that he needed to voice his opinion.
Again, there's are not my opinions. I mean, we all can't have the self-esteem of Geordi, the smoothness of Riker, the tact of Data.
Lost_Balloon_@reddit
I can't stand Wesley. He's an annoying pretentious duche (so is u/wil for that matter).
I like Keiko and Mr. Broccoli. I'm not aware they're more than mildly disliked at best.
Kvetch@reddit
What? I know people disliked Wesley some as a character but who dislikes Barclay and Keiko?
Magazine_Luck@reddit
I just saw the Barclay actor on Babylon 5, and I don't think I realized how good he was before.
You have to kind of root for him, even if he was a Holodeck creeper. I haven't seen a ton of fan dislike of him.
Keiko and Wesley are both totally...ok. But they seem to be pretty disliked.
movieTed@reddit
Wesley Crusher started out as a Roddenberry self-insert character bounced between being a golly gee, know-it-all, or needs to be saved character. He got better plot lines later. Keiko mostly served as an unhappy wife for Chief O'Brien. I think people like Barclay for the most part. He's written to be unlikeable within the context of the show, but fans sympathized with difficulties fitting in and wanted to see him succeed.
NickyTheRobot@reddit
1 is a Mary Sue.
2 is a poorly written character who only exists to provide interpersonal drama for O'Brien. As such her personality wildly carries from episode to episode (depending on the specific torment those particular writers want him to experience), and she is very rarely given a good reason for her acting that way in any given episode.
3 is a deepfaking perv.
ItoldyouIdbeback@reddit
She's a needy b*tch
stachulec@reddit
nope, she's not
majin_melmo@reddit
I’ve always liked all three 🤷🏻♀️
Esternaefil@reddit
Okay, it boils down to this:
Wesley is annoying, a pubescent teenager in a 'grown up' space show took a lot of people out of their enjoyment during his episodes. Personally I loved Wesley (as a kid when the show was airing, he spoke to me), but I still feel as though he was written off the show in a pretty bad way.
Keiko is a bummer. Basically her entire charger arc bills down to making Miles feel bad. Whether or not this is a fair criticism is up for debate, but that's where most of the hate comes from.
Barkley is a very socially inept person working in a very social environment. He has a lot of development over the years, some half baked and some fully baked. But in the end, nobody will ever forget that his nickname is broccoli and he programmed the holodeck to have sex with Troi.
InSixFour@reddit
I love Barclay. One of my favorite characters on the show.
rilloroc@reddit
Broccoli is cool. He didn't do anything with that holodeck that we wasn't all thinking about. Them other two suck ass
ChunkBluntly@reddit
I enjoy all three at times, but only Wes and Keiko got on my nerves .Even then, it was just the way they were written in certain episodes.
Cautious_Mongoose399@reddit
Kinda ironic that Broccoli is in same lineup as the one who give him that silly nickname in the first place. 😏
AdmiralMemo@reddit
Annoying, annoying, MAGA
KillerQ_@reddit
Reg is reg.
noneckjoe123@reddit
Broccoli ain’t disliked. Unless you’re an asshole.
ExtraSpatial@reddit
I like all 3, Barkley took a lot longer to warm up to but he was put there to give Geordi gray hair.
RaynerFenris@reddit
Wesley was a kid playing at an officer, he wasn’t bad, just not as likeable as the writers initially assumed. He grew on me the more they let him fail and try to own his mistakes.
I don’t hate Keiko, don’t get me wrong, there is an element of annoying about her. But she’s someone who loves her husband, and who works through their problems directly. And when she notices her husband is unhappy she arranges a play date with his boyfriend.
Barclay I actually like. Because you know what? He’s smart enough to know that what he does for a living is pretty dangerous, and his story is one of overcoming PERSONAL problems through THERAPY. His stories are some of the most relatable ones they do!
han4bond@reddit
Bad writing / Sexism / Anti-fascism
Voidstarmaster@reddit
Not Wil Wheaton's fault that the writers couldn't write for his character.
Keiko, ugh. She is just annoying. I feel bad for Chief O'Rub the Furry Wall. Can you imagine being married to Keiko for life?! No thanks. I was always team Ogawa anyway. And then there's my sweet little Hoshi...
🥦? I like Murdock and I pity de fool who doesn't. I mean it takes a certain special something to make holodeck programs like his. Even Quark was like daaammn.
fellbound@reddit
Barclay is great.
Keiko is fine.
Wesley...is one of the worst things in all of Star Trek.
Able-Thought3534@reddit
1) Nobody like the guy that’s smarter than everyone 2) Nobody likes someone that’s mean to everyone 3) Nobody like looking in a mirror
Seaberry3656@reddit
Would pay MONEY to see a full episode completely from Keiko's POV. Prominent enough career as a botanist to get a spot on the most coveted, prestigous exploration vessel in all of Starfleet. She would have had to be the top of her field. Sacrifices it all so her husband can repair a space station in post-war shambles so they can keep their growing family together. Goes through predictable depression, tries a career change to "field teacher"/child education just to feel like she has some glimmer of purpose. (almost gets blown up).
Aaaand her husband gets to spend all his spare time playing with man toys and hanging with his boyfriend. And when she is not happy she's considered a complete and utter shrew. Poor Miles! What's that bitch's problem, right?
The writers put their BACKS into getting me to hate her but it just made me lose a lot of respect for Miles.
dillreed777@reddit
WHO DOESN'T LIKE REG?!? With Will, that's obvious, he's super special, he's not super special, what the hell is he? And people dislike Kaiko for the same reason they dislike the partner of a person they really wanna bang... I will believe no other reason.
sekhmet666@reddit
Wesley was ok, typical child genius. But he absolutely doesn’t belong on the bridge, that’s why most people dislike him.
LegitimateProperty67@reddit
People have nothing better to do except complain
chorenisspicy@reddit
Wesley makes us miserable
Keiko makes obrien miserable
Barclay is miserable
EffectiveSalamander@reddit
I thought Wesley was getting better when they made him an ensign and not an acting ensign. If they would have forgotten about The Traveler at that point he would have been fine. Wesley would have been a much better character if they hadn't made him a "Wunderkind". His making ensign has a bit of plausibility, after Wolf 359, they lost a lot of officers, it's plausible that they might have waived quite a lot, Wesley could have taken his academy classes on the Enterprise.
Drakeytown@reddit
Wesley = author insert character why can solve everything with his inborn brilliance, which devalued the hard work, training, and experience of the entire crew
Barclay = audience insert for the presumed incompetent loser demographic, which contradicts the stated premise that only the best of the best of the best serve on the flagship of the federation
Keiko = ew, girl!
Cassandra_Canmore2@reddit
Wesley despite being billed as an evolutionary step forward for humanity ultimately flops at living up to this potential.
People really, really dislike this.
I don't think anyone hates Barclay. More people are uncomfortable with his lack of boundaries. He essentially deep fakes you for his personal fantasies. Oftentimes these fantasies have a sexual subtext.
Again I don't think anyone actually hates Keiko. She's a school teacher while working on her credentials to become a professional botanist. Her storylines don't really offer anything to the over all series.
SpudHawkins@reddit
Why did people hate Keiko?
Twisted-Mentat-@reddit
Wesley is disliked b/c the child super genius trope is just overused. Even as a teen who grew up on TOS, I really didn't want to see a child featured heavily on TNG.
Wil Wheaton's wooden acting didn't help.
Keiko.. They didn't write her very well and the actress does give off "Karen" vibes. She cancelled her own wedding by using a 3rd party (Data) to give Miles the news. I remember being really annoyed at her casual way of manipulating Data.
Seaberry3656@reddit
Barclay's "awkward moments" end up dominating others in a sort of revenge fantasy at best (Hollow Pursuits, The Nth Degree) and cost red shirt casualties at worst (Genesis). I enjoy the hell out of him as a character but I would hate to work with him.
Wesley is technically just a kid (a bereaved one at that) and doesn't really deserve the hate, but he DOES need a lot more humility. Something about being a Starfleet Excellence nepo baby means he needs to be humbled from time to time when he thinks it's his place to interfere... But then again, he saves the crew a lot, too. And him telling Geordi, "At least I don't need to get my women from the holodeck" is well worth everything we have ever put up with from him. Wesley has a place. But the cost of rent is telling him to Shut Up every once in awhile.
And Keiko? It's just pure misogyny. People want to think Chief O'Brien is a demigod who can do no wrong so when his wife is less than 100% happy and servile at all times they think she's a bitch. She is one of my all time favs. Would be Rosalind Chao's "doormat" any time.
BathFullOfDucks@reddit
Wesley ruined the sex planet ("Justice") and Barclay is a pest who made holoporn of his colleagues
Keiko's aight.
Early-Weekend-2557@reddit
Well. Crusher did semi-participate in the cover up of dangerous and illegal maneuvers that resulted in the death of a fellow student. Kidding aside, I don't understand the hate for him at all.
tjanok@reddit
Keiko sucked so much. Mile's deserved so much better.
Lancaster1983@reddit
Some of my favorite episodes include Reggie. Keiko isn't in enough scenes to be hateable. Wesley I never understood the hate. I do hate what the writers did to him in the end though.
BrazenlyGeek@reddit
My dad hates the character of Barclay. His reasoning was that someone with so many flaws that get in the way of his job would never have been allowed on a ship as important as the Enterprise. It’s a wonder Barclay made it so far in Starfleet at all.
Meanwhile, he’s one of my favorite secondary characters.
silverbaee@reddit
This feels unreasonably funny
BlueRFR3100@reddit
Who the hell dislikes Barclay?
GuyWithTheGoods@reddit
I love Broccoli
AppropriateYellow347@reddit
People hate Wesley because they hate boys.
People hate Keiko because they hate women.
People hate Barclay because they hate vegetables.
Ithgillis@reddit
There's a certain section of most fandoms that demand the need to espouse their negative opinions of characters, events, episode, story arcs.
Whilst I don't vibe personally with Keiko, they're in the show for years I had more interest in them on DS9. Personally I always liked Wesley and Barclay was interesting. Probably liked Wesley more as I was slightly younger than them at the time it aired.
Brandon1525@reddit
I stopped liking Wesley when he bullied Barkley.
JacobDCRoss@reddit
She won't let him play daerts with Julian
j10359@reddit
Barclay is a treasure and people cheered in the theater when he came on screen in First Contact. That is all.
Someguy8995@reddit
I’d throw Neelix to the Vidiians for spare parts.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
I'm getting whiplash from the combination of people saying they hate Barclay and people saying noone hates Barclay.
DarthSheogorath@reddit
Noone hates barclay like i hate him. He should have been discharged for his weird sex program. You know he was gonna fuck if they hadnt walked in.
stinkybass@reddit
Fuck keiko
briank2112@reddit
Add Neelix and Kes... they're equally disliked. More so Neelix than Kes, but not by much.
For myself, I'm more of a Voyager fan, and Kes is probably my least liked character from the show. I'm also an outcast because I actually liked Neelix :)
As for the three... Barclay is a fave, but I don't dislike Will. Keiko... not exactly a favorite, but not disliked.
DarthSheogorath@reddit
I like kekio until she cheats on Miles.
BrooklynMaster@reddit
Wesley because WIL WHEATON!!
killercowlick@reddit
I don't really dislike them... I "nothing" them. None of them bring anything substantive or interesting to the story. They're like charity cases. They lift right out. Nothing against them personally, but so much more of the larger story could've been told with the screen time spent on them.
ImprobabilityCloud@reddit
I like Keiko and Barclay and Wesley is kinda fun to make fun of lol
treble-n-bass@reddit
I don’t dislike any of them. I think all three are an ultimate to the series. Anybody who dislikes them, are there has some deep, seated prejudice, or has issues in their lives which they need to resolve. Too many people have too much hate in their souls. It’s really sad that anybody would hate any of these three.
ChiGorilla1127@reddit
I only dislikes Wesley honestly. To me Barkley and Keiko were really good additions. Different types of people you find in real life. His social anxiety might have been played up a little too much for laughs, but he's a good character.
I liked later seasons of TNG Wesley. Let him be a boy genius, but the kid saving the day trope, that should have been left in 70s sci fi. TNG is competence porn, Wesley shouldn't be lapping other engineers and science officers who presumably were top credentialed to have made it on the Enterprise.
GoatApprehensive9866@reddit
Seconded. When he just walks by and says "oh, i was walking by and glanced at the screen and saw what was wrong (right away)" or "I just see the answer in my head "it's just easy)" was pure season 1 hackneyed. Season 2 onward show actual characterization and not a walking instant-plot-fixer. The one where he solves a problem that Troi and Beverly couldn't and then he makes a remark... ugh. The only time I believed him was in "Where No One Has Gone Before" where it feels like genuine attempts were made to make the scenario of his being ignored credible and what he had to bring to the table was legitimate and not "here's the solution I'm smarter than Q!"
xlayer_cake@reddit
Nobody dislikes Barclay.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Check other comments
Madmartigan1@reddit
I don't mind Wesley or Barclay, but Keiko tortured Miles sometimes. This video demonstrates it pretty well: https://youtu.be/kflsuZKZw58?si=9OLhl6-zGaLQMRUn
mike47gamer@reddit
I think that the writers didn't do a good job of portraying an adult relationship with Keiko & Miles, it was almost always bickering, which comes from an immature mindset towards marriage.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
Wesley is an arrogant brat who thinks he should have the same amount of respect as the captain before even becoming an officer. Keiko is a woman. Barclay is reduced to his holodeck antics.
BadgerMk1@reddit
Check your sources OP. Barclay is in no way disliked by the community at large.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Check the comment section, dispite me liking him, its a sizable amount.
Unique_Enthusiasm_57@reddit
I really never got the Keiko hate, unless you were just hyperfixated on the O'Brien/Bashir ship.
OldSpice-69@reddit
I like all these characters? And I'm a first time watcher, just finished season 7, and on the 3rd movie.
Ms-Audacity@reddit
Our cat, Keiko O’Brien! How could you dislike her?
Ms-Audacity@reddit
Keiko’s brother, Wesley Crusher ❤️
HerreDreyer@reddit
Barclay is great. GTFO
DuckyHornet@reddit
Wesley sucks.
Barc can be cringe, but it's intentional. He's supposed to be a weirdo
But whomsoever hates Keiko, I'll see you in the anbyou-jutsu ring
Mastericeman_1982@reddit
Reg is the best officer in the fleet. As long as he’s kept far from a holodeck.
Fakyutsu@reddit
I can’t understand the silly reasons why fans dislike these characters or any characters. When I dislike something I just don’t watch anymore - I don’t harp on it for decades like these people thinking of ways to get a pitchfork mob going.
bigersmaler@reddit
Nobody likes a child genius. Keiko wont get off Mile’s back. Barclay is fine.
LegitimateTrifle666@reddit
Wesley isn't the problem, it's the writers.
sam56778@reddit
Barclay is a smartass and Crusher is a know it all. Don’t know who that is in the middle.
DarthAuron87@reddit
Chief O' Brian's wife.
sam56778@reddit
Aaaah. Now I remember. She is rather pushy at times.
august-skies@reddit
Keiko. Miles O'Brien's wife.
1stltwill@reddit
Barclay is disliked? Since when? He's awesome!
AcanthocephalaHead12@reddit
People dislike Keiko??
KeyNefariousness6848@reddit
Wes was just there to give kids a proxy in the show because it was aimed at kids, Barclay was ok but the transporter stuff was silly and we all still knew him as Howlin Mad Murdock, and Yoko broke up the beetles.
balthazar_edison@reddit
Brócoli is an incel who secretly fucks copies of his female coworkers in the holodeck. The rest are fine.
TheClosetIsOnFire@reddit
I just rewatched that episode and oh god it hits different in the AI era. Same with the Geordi and Leah episode
balthazar_edison@reddit
Yeah except he’s not just jerking off to them he’s actually boning them. Takes something that is already gross and makes it so much worse.
P_f_M@reddit
I've got the feeling that the only real hate towards Broccoli comes from "he is too close to reality" of trekkie fans... Who wouldn't like to have a replica of any favorable crew member for whatever dark and kinky ideas? It reminds me of the all the Puritans thru mankind's known history...
Why nobody mentions LaForge, doctor on voy, or any noticed recreation of a character in holodeck by someone? Holodecks (as shown in ds9) are made exactly for this, to release steam in any personal matter possible...
eriddler87@reddit
Hold up, who hates Barclay?!
bigt503@reddit
I like Barkley a lot. He seems like one of the more realistic characters. He is good at his job, but he has some imposter syndrome and confidence issues. We’ve all felt that haha
Crusher is over hated but I don’t love him. I do really like “the game” and the one where they get the kid killed in the academy… first time they made him fail.
I like Keiko. Shes better on deep space nine, she’s just kinda there occasionally on TNG
naikrovek@reddit
It’s a meme. I liked them all.
CM_Shortwave@reddit
Barclay: self pity Wesley: calling Barclay broccoli Keiko: giving up her school on ds9 like it never happened
ANDERS_CORNER_08@reddit
Barclay is a legend
Keiko is a bit of spoilt brat
dopamine_skeptic@reddit
Star Trek TNG, imo, is mostly competence porn. Meaning that the major conflicts in the narrative do not generally stem from the incompetence/baggage of the officers or crew. Conflicts are usually external, and it is up to our very competent team of people to resolve those conflicts using their admirable skillsets. That’s part of what I enjoy about Trek. It’s refreshing, since the vast majority of narrative storytelling in fiction is about interpersonal strife, misunderstanding, and internal conflicts.
Barclay, to me, flies in the face of this. He feels out of place, and his episodes change the entire vibe of the show for me.
I have no particular problem with Keiko. I have no particular problem with Wesley (he’s a bit too heroic in some episodes, but whatever.)
lyidaValkris@reddit
Wesley Crusher - because he was a teenagers. Teenagers can be annoying. I loved the character, it he showed a facet of life in the federation - that of being a pie-eyed youngster with dreams of joining starfleet... and learning it's not all that's cracked up to be.
Keiko - just poorly written to be Mile's nagging wife. She could have been so much more, but the writers relied on outdated gender tropes were even showing their age in the 90s.
Barclay - I suppose someone got irritated at him being awkward, bumbling and not fitting in, which was the entire point of his character. Much like Wesley, he's an odd ball finding his place in 24th century starfleet life.
I feel apart from personal preference where personality traits may have annoyed some fans, they were just let down by writing that could have been better. I'm surprised no one mentioned Deanna Troi or Tasha Yar, two characters who also could have been much more than they were, if not held back by writing.
Noizyninjaz@reddit
Interesting story. The person that did the voice in German for Wesley was told to make everything sound whiney. Germans hate the Wesley Crusher character because he was voiced so brutally.
Django-UN@reddit
Wesley seems annoying Keiko is just weird and seems to be a difficult person for our best man Miles
Broccoly is just simply not starfleet material and it’s doubted how he got into the academy
CynicalOne_313@reddit
I liked Wesley because he was my age and I could relate to him.
Keiko I didn't mind; I didn't watch as much DS9 as I did TNG.
Barclay seemed like a know-it-all and a creep. Deanna was my favorite character, so...he was just creepy.
LoudPause4547@reddit
Weasel was probably meant to bring in teen boys as a self insert.
sircastor@reddit
I think in the case of Wesley and Keiko, it’s because the writers didn’t know what to do with the situations and the characters became foils for the other characters or situations.
After listening to Wil Wheaton talk about how the writers didn’t know how to write a teenager, it became abundantly clear that the writers first weren’t sure what to do with him and I think to some degree were resentful that they had to deal with him.
Keiko was Miles’ wife, and when they introduced her, he was an occasional character. When they brought him over to DS9, she came with, but didn’t really fit in the story narrative. I think (again) the writers just didn’t know what to do with her.
Everyone loves Barclay though. I have no idea what that’s about.
Ralph--Hinkley@reddit
I don't dislike any crew member; each has their own merits to the saga.
femspective@reddit
Broccoli!
NeiClaw@reddit
I mercifully saw the show pre internet so I never had any issues with the characters. Hollow Pursuits though aged horribly. At the time the holodeck was sci-fi enough that it didn’t register to me how disturbing Barclay was. No, we can create AI avatars of people pretty easily and his behavior is pretty grotesque.
Keiko and O’brien had no chemistry and their relationship was awkward. He always seemed to have PTSD before he really, really had PTSD. Having her date Data would’ve made more sense.
TheClosetIsOnFire@reddit
Now watching as an adult I kinda get why Wesley is disliked, he's a bit annoying at times, but I don't think it's that bad. When I was 15 I had a crush on him 💀
KatNeedsABiggerBoat@reddit
I adore Barclay, honestly, and I don’t mind Wesley.
Keiko can be a bit grating at times, but again, I don’t mind her.
I_Dont_Functionn@reddit
Keiko is a full on BIOTCH and really not very supportive or understanding of her husband. She lacks patience. In my honest opinion she acts like she straight dislikes Obrien most of the time.
biloxibluess@reddit
Snotty
Shrew
Barclay
Lawrence_thinly@reddit
😂
r2-z2@reddit
First I’m hearing of people disliking Barkley tbh. He’s the people’s champ in my house haha
FarFromHome@reddit
Keiko was written by misogynist assholes, specifically to be annoying.
TheDeadlyCat@reddit
Wesley - hated him as a kid because he was too smart for his age. Inferiority complex. Aged out of it, he was a prodigy that the writers stopped caring about. He could have had a better arc. Liked his later appearances better.
Keiko - the relationship shown with Miles made her seem like she was always unhappy and made Miles feel it. Wouldn’t have dated her if that was what I got at home.
Barclay - suffers from basically being neurodivergent in a world that is extremely tolerant towards aliens and their weird customs but the same people become bullies when it comes to him. I feel sorry for him and how the heroes treated him.
monkehmolesto@reddit
Wesley sucks, Keiko won’t stop complaining, I was ok with Broccoli
BlueFeathered1@reddit
😅
505Trekkie@reddit
Honestly I really liked Wes. Wil Wheation is about five years older than I am and growing up Wes kind of made it cool to get good grades and be interested in science.
Barkley let’s be honest is 99% of us. Very few of us in the 24th century would be starship captains. We’d be the borderline neurotic guy who is maybe good at his job but will never be a hero like Riker or Dax.
BlueFeathered1@reddit
Seriously. Barclay was REAL.
DazzlerAoA@reddit
I think people dislike broccoli more because of the actor nowadays… Wesley was my favorite as a kid but I grew up and favor his mom, I will always have love for him though, I think some people found him annoying because he was a very precocious kid… and Keiko i dunno why? If anything her and Miles had the most realistic to modern day relationship and Miles was usually the bigger AH
Geahk@reddit
Do people dislike Broccoli!?
BlueFeathered1@reddit
I don't know about with Wesley and Barclay. I actually liked them. As for Keiko, it just seemed like she was usually bitchy and Miles could never do good enough, and that's when she wasn't possessed by an alien or something.
i_said_meh72@reddit
STNG did Howling Mad Murdock and Rose from The Joy Luck Club wrong! Wesley was designed to suck. He was the Gilligan
Burnsey111@reddit
The writers don’t understand awkward adults, kids, and women.
bremblebeck@reddit
I don’t particularly hate Keiko, but I don’t like most of the episodes that focus on her and O’Brien. Jokingly, to myself, I think of the Simpsons episode with “Queen of the harpies!”
Apprehensive-Tax8631@reddit
No one dislikes Wes crush, he is punk rock af, just in a different way…I saw that episode the other day from season 2, q who, and then I saw the last five minutes of another one with q, Deja q, I think, and it was an incredibly moving conclusion, I’ll say that
Marine_Baby@reddit
Scapegoat
Trek_ie@reddit
I for one love every time Reg shows up in TNG. His cameo in First Contact was top notch 😂
DrPlatypus1@reddit
I don't mind him much now, but even though I was unpopular and picked on, even I thought Wesley deserved to get beat up when I was younger.
Keiko gets more hate than she should. Still, she could be really whiny and irrational. The worst was when she figured turning into an 11 year old shouldn't affect Miles' interest in being with her. She seemed to actually expect him to immediately go all Epstein for her.
Broccoli was basically a sex criminal. He made avatars of actual people and had them make out with him, and almost certainly more. He was a total incel before that was a thing. He got a little better later on, but are we really supposed to ignore that he made versions of Troi and Crusher who were fawning slaves for him?
Fluid-Bet6223@reddit
I’m in the minority in that I like them all. I thought Wesley being a young smart kid was fine, I didn’t find him annoying. Keiko is ok as well, they just didn’t really give her much to do other than being “the wife.” Barkley was great and his episodes were some of the best.
Valuable_Ad9554@reddit
Might as well put Picard and Data in that pic and ask why they are hated, it would be just as sensible of a question.
DJ_Mimosa@reddit
I was about to post this question except Picard/Worf. Crusher, or that old hag who replaced Crusher for 2 seasons, are way more reviled than Broccoli or O’Brien’s wife.
Poneybalony@reddit
It was only for one season, iirc. Season 2 had Pulaski as the doctor. I actually started not to mind her as much near the end of the season, only for Crusher to return.
Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit
Pulaski was neither old nor a hag.
She was rude to Data at first, but she got better. I loved her tea ceremony with Worf, her time with Moriarty, and she was Data's biggest fan in Peak Performance.
Please don't call people old or hags.
FrostyMirror6162@reddit
I loved Picard in the TNG series. Whatever Patrick Stewart did to him in the movies and Picard-era series was an abomination.
Dry-Interaction-1246@reddit
Mary Sue, pecking hen, meh
HailtheBrusselSprout@reddit
Wesley was annoying for sure. Felt like an added young smart guy to appeal to a younger audience but came off as a bit to over done. I liked Keiko, there was nothing to special about her nor to negative and the actress played her well. I really wanted Barclay to be in more episodes as he really was a nice character with lots of flaws. Made him feel more real.
I was young when watching The A-Team and older when I got into trek. Imagine my surprise when I figured out Murdock was Barclay.
owlsarentscary@reddit
Does barkley have nice guy syndrome?
Any-Mammoth-5596@reddit
Personally don't dislike any of them and like broccoli
jvan666@reddit
Who said anything about hating broccoli?
Comrade-Stoneroad@reddit
The child, the devil, and the dim wit. TBH (and I’m watching Data’s day at the gym while typing this) they all have their roles. I have even come to accept and appreciate them
Js987@reddit
It’s all in how they were written.
1) The character was kind of forced. They clearly wanted to shove a young character in and it felt a little forced. Plus, 90% of child characters at that time were written very whiny.
2) Boomer humor, she was written to be fodder for the “ha ha I hate my wife“ jokes.
3) Barclay was originally written to be pitied. He’s a nerdy coward, kinda creepy, milquetoast.
Wonderful-Barber7164@reddit
I'll assume they committed the worst sin of entertainment. They weren't entertaining to some people. At some points I really get why people disliked Wesley for example. Sure, he's supposed to be a giga genius, but he feels like a Mary Sue at times.
DependentSpirited649@reddit
Idk about anybody else but I adore Barclay.
MPFX3000@reddit
Seeing Barkleys sad co-dependency on Troi in Voyager totally turned my opinion on him.
I like Wesley and there’s absolutely no good reason for anyone to hate on Keiko
Akersis@reddit
Wesley was poorly written in a lot of ways, but I chalk it up to being a product of the times. TV shows from that era were typically very dumbed down (ever notice how weird laugh tracks seem today?) but TNG being a sci-fi show it also challenged you to suspend your disbelief more.
Keiko and O'Brien were secondary characters with outstanding actors. I would even add Barclay to that list in that the actors excels at that type of role.
In Barclay's case I think he was also a victim of bad writing. I like the idea of showing the ship's leadership trying to help a poorly performing crewmember turn things around.
got-trunks@reddit
I always liked Barclay and keiko, Wesley felt like they were trying too hard with the boy genius angle and watching the show growing up, I hated him and other kids like him because he’s a privileged nepotism baby and flexes it constantly
IStoneI42@reddit
who tf is hating on barkley?
i WILL fight you.
FoxResponsible8924@reddit (OP)
Look in the comments, there are some.
Forlorn_Cyborg@reddit
In general I don’t like Rosalind Chaos acting as Keiko. Imo it’s kinda stiff, but in a few episodes like DS9 where she was possessed by the Pa Wrath, she kinda loosened up.
DizzyFrogHS@reddit
I will not stand for any Barclay slander.
Pertinax1981@reddit
Where does one go to find out where fans hate specific characters? I never see people hating on them, only people complaining about people hating. Quite the spectacle
timmaay531@reddit
I don’t hate Barclay, but I’d be lying if I said I liked him much.
CoupleKnown7729@reddit
Weasley because he's an author avatar for Gene and thus got to be the insufferable kid genius.
Keiko because zero personality (noteably even with the mandated 'miles must suffer' streak she NEVER demanded a divorce from him.)
Not sure why people hate barclay other than he feels out of place. I mean that's kinda the point. Maybe to them it feels like he's a direct 'this is waht star trek fans are like' sort of insult?
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
Why would she divorce Miles? Over the false memories that he was in prison for 20 years and murdered his cellmate? She didn't know how dark those were and was probably confident he could work through them.
CoupleKnown7729@reddit
Just a kind of personal low bar. Rather than abandon Miles to avoid the collateral bullshit she's stuck by him.
wanderfae@reddit
I love them all. Shrug.
Butterfly-Sweet@reddit
I like all of them. I HATE Deanna Troy though
kank84@reddit
Keiko suffered from terrible writing, and a lack of a desire on the part of the show to develop her much beyond the stereotypical shrew wife who tries to keep a male character down. Also, a lot of people just don't like women.
Unfair_Pineapple8813@reddit
The other issue is the show was reluctant to actually book Rosalind Chao for short scenes. So often O'brien has to cancel his plans with Julian because Keiko needs something. But then, we don't actually see him enjoying time with his wife.
Horbigast@reddit
Love all three. Don't know what you mean.
TeacatWrites@reddit
I just would rather not with Wesley. Like most of the cast members, they toss him into romantic episode plots a lot and it's bad enough watching a cast that makes me feel like I'm watching my parents seduce each other. Watching Wesley get involved in it makes me feel like I'm watching my best friend or sibling behave that way. Not it for me.
Keiko never seems like she likes anything. Like she's always being dragged along and forced to go with things and has decided not to give herself the choice of leaving even though she's a grown adult. It's a lot worse in DS9. "Miles, I hate Deep Space Nine! Why are we on this space station? I wanna do botany in botany places!" Leave, then 🤷 No one's forcing her to be anywhere, she just decided she would act like it for some reason.
Barclay's okay, but I don't like that their portrayal of introversion and awkwardness ends with the fate of "coming out of his shell, opening up, being happier because people he didn't really wanna spend time with except in the holodeck decided to pity him and 'make him feel welcome' by acting like his best friends all of a sudden". I'm an introvert, but that's because I'm happier being an introvert and I hate when people go out of their way to include me in things, so it just reads like I'm being lectured about how all of my problems will juet magically vanish if I just "come out of my shell" and open up to people for a change. Big r/thanksimcured vibes.
mjp31514@reddit
Regarding Keiko, I was always pretty neutral about her character until they got to DS9. At first, she seemed like such a naggy stick in the mud, but then I realized that they're just a terrible couple who really shouldn't be together. They obviously care about each other a great deal, but their careers and ambitions are not compatible at all, which leads to them being constantly at each other's throats.
throwawayUWhousingac@reddit
barclay is disliked? i've never heard that before genuinely. and keiko just sort of exists.
Historyp91@reddit
Keiko is more disliked in the context of DS9 (and IMO a lot of the hate is ironic for the sake of jokes)
I don't think Barcley is disliked at all, and Wesley dislike is a phenomenon that largely tapered off in the middle of the 2000s.
Possible-Ebb9889@reddit
I couldn't stand Wesley at all when I was younger, he was so bitter and crappy and just ungrateful it passed me off. Like I would have loved to be in his shoes, I didn't understand why his energy was always just so bad.
Come to find out years later Will Wheaton was literally tortured during that time and it was just sort of coming through in how he played the character.
Popular-Jury7272@reddit
Keiko's role in the narrative was to cut Miles down. Hard to do that without creating a character that people don't like. Same reason people hated Skyler in Breaking Bad even though she was objectively im the right most of the time.
le_gasdaddy@reddit
WHEATON!
nuff said
Robert__Sinclair@reddit
Keiko is as lovely as Yoko Ono was. I did love Reginald Barclay. About Wesley I have mixed feelings; he had his moments, but most of the time was a know-it-all Mickey Mouse and I sincerely prefer Donald Duck.
Dave_A480@reddit
Barclay offends certain 'sensitive' folks because of his holo-porn thing...
Keiko gets griped-at because her 'military spouse dragged to the end of the quadrant' role plus only appearing to add drama to an episode doesn't play well with their preference for a 'sitcom family' depiction....
Wesley is just annoying because all teenage characters are annoying....
aburple@reddit
I’ve never really heard/seen much if any kieko/barclay hate. Aside from maybe a few off hand comments about certain scenes or episodes. Wesley, yes. I don’t hate him necessarily but I get it.
As for Neelix, he suuuuuuucks. Possessive, annoying, in the way, causes more problems than he solves, constantly in peoples personal business, no respect for boundaries, the list goes on and on. He does have some redeeming qualities for sure, but his personality is so grating. Also he’s the typical comic relief character of that time of airing, a trope that got old immediately.
mi__to__@reddit
Heavily disrupting the usual vibe and flow of the show, while being nowhere near likable enough to justify that much attention.
tvmediaguy@reddit
I never understood the Wesley hatred. We were the same age … so I totally identified with him. Keiko was fine… until it was revealed she thinks scalloped potatoes with capers is “a little heavy”. After that I knew we could t be friends. Lt. Barclay…. Can’t stand the guy.
CosmoonautMikeDexter@reddit
Wes, a poorly written Mary Sue. It happens. Some claim that Will Wheaton is unfairly shit on because of Wes. But I would argue that WW has done this to himself with his overly smug self righouesness combined with his online histeronics.
Keiko. This is on the writers again. They didn't know what to do with her. On the show she sort of spends her time hen pecking Miles. Keiko was a civillian so talened in her field. That she was seleteced to crew the Enterprise. Now she is on a barely functional space station, that pre worm hole was a back water. She has nothing to do and is very frustrated. I can understand why Keiko would be frustated.
Barcley, I don't think anyone hates him. He was being bullied by Wes. He is completely harmless. Dwight on the other hand. Well the less said about him the better.
WhiteKnightAlpha@reddit
I've never really understood it but I think some of it is due to:-
Wesley: His early writing could be annoying and the majority of his appearances were in the earlier seasons and not the later, better seasons. So his writing overall wasn't great. He can come off as a little smug (which could be common in the early seasons) and the writers did sometimes try to force him as the most special, special-person, who was more important than everyone else, without really earning it. Both can be grating.
Keiko: A lot of fans seem to have the idea that it was toxic and that this was Keiko's fault. People seem to expect TV wives to be 110% supportive of the main-cast husband. Keiko and Miles had occasional disagreements and more depth to their relationship than was common at the time. There is a examination of the O'Briens' marriage somewhere online and it actually seems pretty healthy.
Barclay: I've rarely heard anything bad about Barclay but, when I have, it's the impression that he could seen as a mean-spirted caricature of Trekkies. Some people feel a little insulted or condescended to by him.
organictamarind@reddit
I'm neutral on Wesley and Keiko.. I just dislike Broccoli because of those cringey holodeck programs.
eastsydebiggs@reddit
Wesley has a punchable face
Barclay was defenitely on the spectrum which probably just wasn't received well by the audience of that time
Keiko is the buzzkill "you can't skate here" type woman we all grew up around who has a cool fun husband that just wants to keep the peace
Zesty-B230F@reddit
Wesley character is the weakest on the show. Who would go from straight A academy nerd to inter-dimentional time traveler? I don't know what's wrong with you if you don't love Barclay.
ResplendentShade@reddit
I dunno, I like all those characters. But to be fair Keiko didn't really grow on me until DS9.
doc_birdman@reddit
Barclay is an amazing character and an amazing example of organic world building. The only examples of Starfleet officers have made Jonny Kim look like an underachieving loser. It was refreshing (and even relieving for some fans) to see a Starfleet officer who suffered from the same issues they did. Shit, when Barclay said:
This was the most I’ve ever identified with a Starfleet officer.
Keiko? Well, people call her a nag but those people always come off as the “I hate my wife, isn’t that funny?” boomer types. Miles, despite being one of the finest examples of Starfleet, regularly puts duty above his family. I’d be a nag too if my husband dragged me across the galaxy a million times while putting their lives on the line.
Wesley is a victim of poor writing in those early season. He was just an overpowered wunderkind who saved the day one too many times. Now, I think this is overblown. People will say he saved the ship in every single episode those first two seasons but it was more sporadic than that. I think he had a fun and fulfilling arc.
ilovespaceack@reddit
Keiko speaks at a pitch that i find unpleasant. Not her fault, just my sensitive ears.
_fly-on-the-wall_@reddit
i also like Barclay
s73v3m4nn@reddit
No idea about the other two, but Keiko is a whining, moaning killjoy, who could suck the happiness out of any situation