Wayland: 16 years of Xorg wasted for this?
Posted by basedchad21@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 25 comments
Posted by basedchad21@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 25 comments
DoubleOwl7777@reddit
fractional scaling and multiple refresh rates on multi Monitor setups:
knotted10@reddit
HDR, real gestures, security, and much more not possible with X. Only one missing is session management, which is in progress (kde already implemented it, gnome on the way, apps needs to use it now)
flameleaf@reddit
Automated window management is also missing on Wayland. I use xdotool to make my multi-monitor setup less tedious. AFAIK ydotool can only simulate mouse and keyboard input.
GregTheMadMonk@reddit
you can make a display server protocol that achieves that but also doesn't make every single basic feature implementation-defined
knotted10@reddit
Sure there's a bunch of workarounds, but what do you expect? that a new display server will be implemented from one day to another supporting every feature that exists and every distro will implement it at the same time? of course there had to be corners cut in order for this to work. This is real software development lifecycle. Who really didn't expect something like the xwayland client?
This is how progress look like in real life. Clunky and not perfect, but slightly better.
GregTheMadMonk@reddit
The first Wayland release was in 2008, it is by no means new. To have almost two decades of evolution with so many core functions left to the implementations is a shameful regression, especially for a project that explicitly positions itself as an X replacement
huupoke12@reddit
Your post is like blaming the web standards (Wayland) because there are too many implementations (Firefox's Gecko, Google's Chromium, Apple's Webkit, etc.)
real_jeeger@reddit
From my understanding, the compositors all need to implement the protocols separately, which seems like a lot of wasted effort considering everyone's going to need stuff like a clipboard or a tray. I think it's a valid criticism of Wayland.
huupoke12@reddit
By that logic, we should just use Chromium. It's open source after all, people can just fork and modify it.
real_jeeger@reddit
How did you turn "valid criticism" into this blanket statement?
And I am familiar with the web, thank you very much.
GregTheMadMonk@reddit
...and it is perfectly valid. Standards are responsible for defining a well-behaved implementation in their field, and a standard that is too lose and does not define core features is a bad standard.
The only thing implementations are responsible for is conforming to a standard.
MrAlagos@reddit
There is no penalty for not confirming to many standards. If people choose to use products that don't conform to standard, it's their choice and their prerogative. For actually important things there are laws or things that are connected to governments and regulations, for the Web there isn't anything like that thus we get and will continue to get crap.
Also, Wayland is not a standard in any form.
IngwiePhoenix@reddit
The only thing that didn't work, when I tested it, was accessibility related global hotkeys with mouse + keyboard (hold down a key and scroll to zoom in and out - not in a page or doc, but fullscreen). But, I tested that in both times on older MacBooks with 500-class mobile GPUs from NVIDIA. xD I am sure Nuvou was having one heck of a time... I mean, they did work, I did have output, but it was... not good.
But I hear most other problems are fixed? Window- and screen-sharing for example o.o Apparently Discord sharing works now, and has for a while.
I recently also ran into the issue where I couldn't get RDP to work - but that was a me-problem, I tried to use xRDP and I couldn't figure out the
kconfcommand to just enable it over SSH (remote VM at a customer).cwo__@reddit
Meta + Ctrl + Scroll works in kwin. (You can rebind it in System Settings).
IngwiePhoenix@reddit
ohhh will give it a look! that'd be so great if that finally worked lol
Oerthling@reddit
Since last year you don't xrdp anymore.
Gnome has RDP support built in.
I've been using remote login session via RDP for a year now. It's just a click (+name, pw) in settings now.
IngwiePhoenix@reddit
That much I learned - but I couldnt figure out how I could enable that from within the command line. Well that, and my customer wanted Plasma... Still, for sheer curiosity, how do I enable RDP strictly through SSH?
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UNF0RM4TT3D@reddit
All of the "problems" mentioned have been solved. Some way too recently but they've been solved. Clipboards (I've not seen this ever not work), Screen share/record was fixed with pipewire and portals (and it performs better than X), screenshots are more of the same, AFAIK hotkeys are currently only correctly implemented on Kwin but other implementations are getting fixed or done.
It's also pointing out that multiple implementations are "bad" somehow? Completely ignoring the fact that X also has competing implementations like XFree86, Xorg, Xlibre, even Xming and the random proprietary implementations before XFree86. Completely ignoring that X has a bunch of extensions that used to also be hit or miss based on which you use.
Wayland also has things that weren't good on X. Like fractional scaling, proper per monitor VRR and per monitor refresh rate, HDR. And when things actually work, like when using the WineWayland backend or a wayland enabled toolkit, the latency is so much lower than even on pure Xorg with no compositing.
Alaknar@reddit
I'm a noob running Wayland for months now with zero issues - is this a meme?
tumbleweed_enjoyer@reddit
Most people won't feel a thing when they use wayland or x11. It's not a debate on which is better.
Wayland is the first citizen now so all features are added to it in DE wise but X11 is either removed or not getting new features from DEs. Not that it's not capable it's because they won't do it anymore. So using Wayland on GNOME or KDE is much better than using X11 now.
But, a big but (not to be mistaken with butt), Some professional use cases are broken because how Wayland is designed. I can't point them directly as I am not a professional but you can see it in the messages section of every git commit that wants to remove X11 or not adding features to it anymore.
I am not trying to say anything here, people will still keep Xorg and Xorg supporting DEs alive so it's not dead yet. But, a small but, it'll not be a mainline option and enough niche people will only know about it or use it.
OneBakedJake@reddit
If this was a meme, it's terribly low effort, and remarkably unfunny.
From a Sway user, enjoy your Wayland experience.
oiledhairyfurryballs@reddit
This is schizo posting
MelioraXI@reddit
A comment from the other sub you crosspost from:
"..Unfortunately you do need GNOME’s Mutter and KDE’s KWin to support libadwaita and Qt6 correctly"
Yikes.
meskobalazs@reddit
Chess, meet pigeon :)