Is "right libertarian" a redundant term?
Posted by skeletus@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 23 comments
Just like left libertarian is an oxymoron. I have seen these terms thrown around a lot and users even have flairs with these terms.
Why the need to add prefixes? Can't you just say libertarian and that's it?
Evening_Lynx_9348@reddit
Funny how you call left libertarian an oxymoron, when the literal first uses of libertarianism was to describe a leftist philosophy. Better know as anarchy or anarcho-communism now…
So not oxymoron.
You’re confusing libertarianism with lassiez-faire capitalism imo
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Anarcho communism is an oxymoron. A system as imbecilic as communism can only remain in place with the force of the state.
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Evening_Lynx_9348@reddit
Not true… in the slightest…
Go spend some time researching the fucking topic…
skeletus@reddit (OP)
Lmao got owned by a bot
Evening_Lynx_9348@reddit
Replace communism with Marxist-Leninist and then sure the bot would have owned me.
As it is the bot is just showing me that this libertarian sub has just become a right wing shill community.
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Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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dangered@reddit
It is, I’ve never seen a libertarian classify themself as a “right libertarian”
I’ve only seen it used by leftists to describe libertarians because it helps them shoehorn in their communist agenda.
AToastyDolphin@reddit
MentisWave considers himself “Libertarian-Right” in his bio
dangered@reddit
Libertarian-right (commonly Libright) is a designation based on a quadrant within the political compass.
The compass is just an X and Y axis. X being economic policy (labeled: left-right) and Y being the level of government desired (labeled: authoritarian-libertarian). It’s an oversimplified 15 minute quiz and is really just about memes and having fun.
“Libertarian” in the sense of the chart just means they believe in Marxism as a whole don’t agree with Mao Zedong’s actions, libleft is typically caricatured as an SJW.
Libertarianism is not compatible with leftist economic policy. Freedom is nothing without personal property which they do not believe in. They essentially believe in forced participation in communes which boils down to micro-cities practicing communism.
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Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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Evening_Lynx_9348@reddit
Jeezus fuck… There is no oxymoron this is idiotic.
Literally the word libertarianism was used to describe anarchy and anarcho-communism before those became common words…
Such an idiotic take.
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Anarcho communism is an oxymoron. A system as imbecilic as communism can only remain in place with the force of the state.
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Consistent-Owl-958@reddit
yeah good point, but ig some ppl add right or left Libertarian if they officially classify themselves as Libertarians, but at the same time, might also share more views towards one side or the other.
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Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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natermer@reddit
The popular use of left vs right politics really doesn't make sense applied to Libertarianism.
The original meaning of the term was from just prior to the French Revolution when the French Assembly was divided up into 3 "Estates-General"; Clergy (first), Nobility (second), and Commoners (third). After the third estate broke off the assembly divided into "Left" and "Right" segments were Left supported revolution and the commoners and Right supported the king and existing social order.
In that context Libertarians are left, because they oppose centralized authority and side with individual (commoner) rights.
However modern Left vs Right is much more Hegelian.
Hegel was the leading philosopher of his day and was head of the Philosophy department of the Prussian State-owned University system when it was at its peak and dominated the academic life of Europe. Leader of theology and philosophical studies during a era were those were (literally) mandatory subjects to study for anybody wanting to enter the government and get started in politics.
Hegel developed a philosophy that was essentially a apologist in defense for the Prussian State and its King.
In it he described "god" (in a philosophical sense) as the sort of collective "higher order" consciousness of human civilization. History had a movement, a purpose, and a destination. That is it was progressive and was something that could be predicted and guided by philosophical insight and science. That as history progressed each stage of human development featured different ways of thinking and perceiving things that embodied the movement of that era.
And it was the state that embodied that progression, that "movement" through its powerful institutions. That is if "god" was the collective higher consciousness of society then the state was the physical manifestation of that "god".
This was hugely influential and essentially forms the basis of all modern political thinking. Where the "state" represents "the will of the people".
After Hegel's death his followers split into two camps... The "Right" or "Old" Hegelian thinkers that believed that Prussian State was peak human achievement, and "Left" or "Young" Hegelian thinkers that felt that there was significantly more progression for human history to be pushed and directed for.
Marxism, for example, was a Young Hegelian philosophy. Marx was brought up in those schools and studied under and partnered with other Young Hegelian philosophers.
Marxism attempted to strip away the Hegelian spiritual mumbo-jumbo and focus entirely on material forces of historical development.
Hegelianism was heavily influential over the American Progressive era as well. Its influence was seen through people like John Dewey, W.E.B. Du Bois, and Woodrow Wilson.
During the progressive era of USA history we saw a decided shift away from individualism that was a key component of the American revolution and a focus on positive, active state interventions were the state was seen a moral institution.
The focus changed from rights and liberty being derived from man's nature and to a focus were the state is required to direct the material forces of the world to ensure freedom and well being of the people.
In the Hegelian-style context the "Right" is the conservative faction that wants The State to maintain the existing social order and the "Left" is the progressive faction that wants The State to help guide humanity to its next stage in social development/evolution.
In this second context Libertarianism is not left or right. It isn't even on the spectrum. The only thing we want from The State is for the State to fuck off and leave people to their own devices. At MOST we only want it to exist to protect basic natural rights and aggression from foreign states.
So from the old French Assembly definition of Left vs Right... Libertarianism is Left.
From the Progressive/Hegelian definition of Left vs Right... Libertarianism is neither.
The idea that Libertarianism is on the Right is because in the newer sense people who want The State to preserve existing social order are conservatives.
And Libertarians and Conservatives have a lot in common because we both oppose Progressives.
Out of the two choices Progressives are much worse because they always seek to grow the state to manipulate and engineer society based on their own ideas. This is completely antithetical to individual Liberty.
However this is all complicated by the fact that the Republican party, which was supposed to be "the conservatives" pretty much purged almost all of its actual conservative members after Barry Goldwater loss in 1964 and has since adopted more and more of the Progressive approach since then to ice the Democrat party out.
It is to the point now were Republican leadership is essentially indistinguishable from Democratic Leadership from the late 1990s through the 2010s.
EngineerTrue5658@reddit
Left and right libertarian exist on the political compass, which is an extremely inaccurate portrayment of one's values. On the Nolan chart, however, tjer isn't left and right libertarian, and it or way more sensible of a depiction of political identity
itriedicant@reddit
Thank you. I've been on this kick for years. The Nolan Chart is a much better representation of one's politics in America than what most of the political compasses use today.
itriedicant@reddit
If you accept the mostly European definition of left-right, meaning economics only then both right- and left-libertarian make sense. In America, neither makes sense and are both oxymoronic. In America, the left is for social freedom and government regulation of economics; the right is for economic freedom and government regulation of social issues. There is no such thing as a left- or right-libertarian. You can't accept one and proclaim the other doesn't exist.
I'm a libertarian. Right-libertarian doesn't mean anything to me.
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Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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Formal-Run-832@reddit
Yeah, plenty of left-wing hippies enjoy libertarian ideals. people call me right wing because I’m a libertarian meaning.. and it’s dumb.
I’m in favor of minimal border control, to enable the free market to function well. the I think government should stay out of marriage entirely so people can marry whomever or whatever they wish and live anyway they want.
Im pro legalization. These are all left-wing ideals, but the politically brainwashed left call me right wing because I don’t want tyrannical socialism destroying the market or to be forced to say nice things to people.
librarian1001@reddit
The problem is, if you say “libertarian” or “real libertarian” you don’t know if it’s actually a real libertarian or a leftist pretending that their ideology is real libertarianism. “Right libertarian” has a much more specific meaning, even if it’s redundant and the opposite is oxymoronic.
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Left libertarianism is an oxymoron. There can be no liberty without economic liberty.
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