Can I run any Linux distro in this PC

[-]

Aginor404@reddit

I fear it isn't. The Z80 is an 8bit CPU.

But there is Zeal 8-bit OS, which is inspired by Linux and made for the Z80.

[-]

Membership-Diligent@reddit

while not on an z80, it has been done on an AVR:

https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bit

[-]

Xalius_Suilax@reddit

Lol nice, the smallest system I ran Linux on was also an AVR, but AVR32-AP7000 with 8MB RAM.

"It takes about 2 hours to boot to bash prompt ("init=/bin/bash" kernel command line). Then 4 more hours to boot up the entire Ubuntu ("exec init" and then login). Starting X takes a lot longer."

[-]

Membership-Diligent@reddit

well that project is wold in many aspects, like this:

All that's left is that pesky 32-bit CPU & MMU requirement. Well the AVR has no MMU and is 8-bit. To conquer this obstacle, I wrote an ARM emulator.

[-]

Xalius_Suilax@reddit

Yeah the layers of emulation are wild ;) I've used μClinux on MCUs without MMU, but they had at least some form of hardware MPU and at least 32bit.

[-]

internet-name@reddit

Is the main bottleneck paging to disk? Or is it the CPU? My intuition fails on these low-spec systems.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Thank you!

[-]

-Organic-Panic-@reddit

You could, however, core it and throw a raspberry pi 5 in it or an orange pi and make a pretty badass little deck. Might have to find a way to adapt the keyboard or replace.

Would be sick.

[-]

jeff_coleman@reddit

Let's not destroy working vintage computers. If you have a non-functional unit, however, go nuts.

[-]

wittywalrus1@reddit

If the machine runs or can easily be restored, why...

I can understand doing so when something's broken beyond repair, but a perfectly working machine from the 80s? Seems like a waste.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Yeah, it works almost perfectly (just the right shift is dead)

[-]

keysym@reddit

Take a look at schematics and try to make the shift key work again. It'll be a fun project!

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Yeah, but I wouldn't have time to do it, as I already have a 90's beamer to fix

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

She’s fine rn, will get worse when she’s running boost though

However, M50 is “indestructible”

[-]

billyfudger69@reddit

Assuming there is space they could have the original components and a modern raspberry pie in the case. :)

[-]

-Organic-Panic-@reddit

This is the definition of one man's trash. To me its a waste to leave it in a reliquary : to you, its a waste to retrofit for modern usability.

As an aside, functionality depends upon use-case. In this one, the query was how to get linux on that hardware.

Simple answer: You can't; it is unusable in that state to that end.

Complicated answer: Mod it and retrofit some hardware. It isn't the 80's, but maybe its nostalgic in all the best ways.

[-]

I remember reading about watch makers and repair specialists lamenting Steampunk cosplayers because they were destroying old watches and losing critically rare gears and components to gimmicky hats and glasses. Ethical steampunk fans now use props when possible.

It sucks to see viable hardware in antique platforms casually discarded :(

Someone remade a prototype Apple device using waterslide stickers after meticulously re-creating the chassis and keyboard. That shit is cool! Make retro-decks like that please :)

[-]

kind_bros_hate_nazis@reddit

Fuck no have some respect

[-]

Merjia@reddit

I knew there HAD to be some project made to run on a Z80. God I love this shit.

[-]

bigbearandy@reddit

Also Fuzix. It will support Z80 and 68000 families.

[-]

allocallocalloc@reddit

Zilog's Z80 has 16-bit pointers.

[-]

Muchsadlilhappy@reddit

You see what I leard with Linux so far Isn't as much as will it run and much more witch distros should be best suited. Everything runs Linux.

[-]

WildMaki@reddit

It looks like an msx. If so, try Uzix

[-]

WildMaki@reddit

Linux no, but if you want to play, you may want to give a try to fuzix or uzics. Never tried myself but I wanted to get some inspiration to build a unix-like for embedded systems like esp32 or rpi2040. (Don't ask, it's still in my backlog)

[-]

Sad-Astronomer-696@reddit

Probably Tiny Core Linux haha

[-]

laurent_taka_26@reddit

An MSX! 😋 I don't really see the point.

Especially since it's collector's item, its place is in a museum as Indy would say...

[-]

lproven@reddit

It's not a PC. So, no.

But there are UNIX like OSes for it -- but I'm sorry to tell you that if you can't tell a PC from an 8-bit, then you probably don't have the technical knowledge to get anything like that working yet.

[-]

tdammers@reddit

Technically yes, but it would involve emulating some 32-bit CPU on this 8-bit one. People have managed to boot Ubuntu on an 8-bit microcontroller - but it takes days to boot to a prompt, and minutes for a keystroke to appear on your screen.

You will also need to find a way of getting more RAM into that machine, because I don't think there are any kernel builds that would fit into 64 kB (and you also need to fit the emulator in there with it). If you can attach some kind of external mass storage device, then you could emulate RAM using that, but that would slow it down even more...

[-]

die_h_exe@reddit

Arch. For sure.

[-]

yahbluez@reddit

Linux needs at least a cpu with MMU, the old great Z80 did not have that, also there is no 8 bit linux.

Without changing the cpu you may be able to run a serial terminal program and connect to a linux system You may add a SoC into the case where the linux is installed and connect serial.

[-]

Murky_Ad_4255@reddit

Linux will probably be like "Those 8 bit days are gone! Now i have to carry AMDGPU like stuff with me toooo!!"

[-]

J0e_Bl0eAtWork@reddit

The original Linux kernel required a 32-bit machine. The Z-80 is an 8-bit CPU. Right?

[-]

zylian@reddit

It's possible to emulate a 32-bit CPU on an 8-bit CPU, by writing an ARM emulator. And run Linux that way. Uselessly slow, but it has been made to work. https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=07.%20Linux%20on%208bit

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Yeah, I think so. It’s just that this was my father’s first computer and I wanted to try to put it to work

[-]

jimicus@reddit

Little bit of computer history for you:

Home computers of that era couldn't really do very much by modern standards.

There were Unix variants at the time. But they required something with a lot more power than anyone could hope to run at home. Even if an individual could afford it (they couldn't), the need for three-phase power and a room about the same size as the rest of the house made it impractical.

Most of the 1980s home computer revolution was this somewhat odd situation where people were buying these things for home use only to realise that there wasn't a great deal useful they could do with them. It wasn't unusual for them to wind up in the kid's bedroom "to help with their homework" - and become a games machine.

[-]

Rimbosity@reddit

spreadsheets, though... the first killer app was the spreadsheet.

made even the crappiest 8-bit PC useful

most people just didn't want to invest the time in learning how to code, which is sensible. but you had to, to make these things sing

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

This pc taught my dad how to code

[-]

jimicus@reddit

Apart from occasional games, that was about the only other thing they were good for. Databases weren't a thing (certainly not on home PCs); word processors existed but were nothing like what we know today.

My first computer wasn't a million miles from this one. Different CPU, but not a massively different amount of compute power.

[-]

purplemagecat@reddit

I remember learning BASIC , the early dos version. with it's goto lines and such. So crude compared to modern languages .

[-]

WokeBriton@reddit

With a bit of programming learning, you could set this computer to the task of calculating things fibonacci-type sequences with different starting integers to the usual. Or calculating however many digits of pi you can display.

You could program an editor to run on it and use it to capture someones memoirs, or you could write a novel.

You could use it to recreate a game from the 8-bit era.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

I have already, I made it run pong a while ago

[-]

ptoki@reddit

I think there were 16bit non mmu linux kernels. I dont remember the details though. They werent very compatible with the apps written so number of programs running on that was limited. I think it was for amigas and older macintoshes

[-]

jesus_was_rasta@reddit

If you buy 4, you have 32bit and then run Linux /s

[-]

p-wing@reddit

that's not how bits work

if you buy 2 you have 9-bit if you buy 2 more you another 9-bit, then combine for a 10-bit

[-]

F54280@reddit

Sounds expensive…

[-]

flipping100@reddit

That Big Linux for you

[-]

pants6000@reddit

Atari Jaguar-style math, clever.

[-]

Soichik@reddit

oh, see you are a man of culture.

[-]

ScienceInfamous3478@reddit

Yes, you can if you port it into Z80 archeticture.

[-]

Cat5edope@reddit

Those arrow keys are……. Something

[-]

marx2k@reddit

Thats how keyboards look to me when I drop acid

[-]

topological_rabbit@reddit

The symbol locations on those arrow keys are killing me.

[-]

ReallyEvilRob@reddit

Not a chance. Linux was never ported to an 8-bit CPU.

[-]

GeneralDumbtomics@reddit

Nope, no linux on Z80, but there's other 8-bit OS's that will.

[-]

C_hotpocketer@reddit

No only Temple OS

[-]

udum2021@reddit

Its not a PC to begin with.

[-]

markhadman@reddit

It's not an x86-based IBM (Compatible) PC, but it's definitely a PC (personal computer).

[-]

LeslieH8@reddit

The Z-80 doesn't contain two things Linux require from the beginning (an MMU and a 32-bit instruction set), so at best, you'd have to emulate a 32-bit processor, and that would be a whole thing. HOWEVER. You could mess with FUSIX, which was specifically designed to bring POSIX-like functionality to very small, memory-constrained systems without an MMU, and it successfully runs on various Z80-based machines and retro computer projects. You can get more information at fusix.org . There is also (as u/Aginor404 pointed out) Zeal 8-bit OS at https://github.com/Zeal8bit/Zeal-8-bit-OS You can install CP/M (not anything to do with Linux, but it is a thing - http://www.cpm.z80.de/ Finally, you may also have an option of using SymbOS - http://www.symbos.de/ which is graphical (warning - the linked site is hard on the eyes. I'm reminded of Geocities, and not in a good way.)

However, for Linux? No, not unless you want to emulate a 32-bit processor.

[-]

CameramanNick@reddit

No. But someone did write a multitasking OS with a windowed UI and even a kind of video playback for the Amstrad CPC, with similar specs. So, things can be done.

[-]

x1-unix@reddit

You can build a VM that can emulate a target that can run Linux.

One dude made that for Intel 4004. It took a couple of days to boot, but it works :)

[-]

AnnieBruce@reddit

Do you want a usable Linux system or a neat hack to show off that has no practical utility?

Usable Linux isn't happening on this thing. When a guy got Linux running on a C64 boot times were something like two weeks(there is a real possibility that a cosmic ray will flip a bit and cause a mid boot crash partway through on these timescales). And too slow to do anything useful once booted. It used a RISC-V emulator, I don't remember how they dealt with RAM and storage requirements. If you want to do that, look up the C64 Linux project to get started(it's a different CPU entirely so you'd have to change a lot, but that project might be a useful starting point) and definitely post the results somewhere.

If you want something usable that is similar to Linux, check out Fuzix. It's essentially a Unix like for 8 bit systems like this. A lot is left out because some hardware features are not available and others far too slow to be useful for Unix, but it's probably your best bet if you want to use this thing like you'd use a Linux computer.

[-]

equake@reddit

Had one of those as a kid. Best computer ever!

[-]

-t-h-e---g-@reddit

Check out fusix

[-]

ben2talk@reddit

Just hold down Meta as you install ;) no problem.

This is obviously a joke, as you have not even tried; as there's no way to try. Z80 processor won't run X86 software anyway.

[-]

kudlitan@reddit

I would put MS-DOS 5.0 with DOSSHELL and then enjoy looking back at the past.

[-]

Memedolf_Honkler@reddit

Can it run doom?

[-]

RoxyAndBlackie128@reddit

ELKS might work

[-]

balki_123@reddit

You can write an emulator of some supported linux architecture for Z80, add shitton of RAM, somehow and shitton of non-volatile storage. And - voilá.

It would be super slow, but it's possible. Like super super slow. Master degree in electronics an computer science could help.

[-]

phreak9977@reddit

“Best I can do is BASIC”

[-]

op374t0r@reddit

It has ram so maybe

[-]

SaxoGrammaticus1970@reddit

Looks like a Brazilian MSX clone. No, it would not be realistically possible. I think someone just booted the Linux kernel on a Commodore 64 as a proof of concept but the whole process took hours. Try a better system for the hardware, such as CP/M 3.0+ or similar.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

It’s a legit MSX, manufactured here in Brazil

[-]

creamcolouredDog@reddit

You can probably run NetBSD

[-]

UdPropheticCatgirl@reddit

Z80 is way to low power for netbsd, lowest power thing it runs on is probably m68k and that’s effectively order of magnitude apart from this

[-]

skrullbr@reddit

This post takes me back to my childhood. Good times. I miss my MSX. These were very popular in Brazil in late ‘80s.

Definitely not Linux, but you can try UZIX.

https://github.com/marioaugustorama/uzix-kernel

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Exactly, this unit is one of the later ones, as my dad told me he bought it in 1989

[-]

Swedophone@reddit

Exactly, this unit is one of the later ones, as my dad told me he bought it in 1989

You mean a later MSX1 unit. After MSX1 there were MSX2, MSX2+ and Turbo R.

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Sharp_HB-8000

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

I know, he told me about it

[-]

ArrayBolt3@reddit

Can you? Probably, if you're determined enough. Someone got Debian working on an Intel 4004. https://dmitry.gr/?r=05.Projects&proj=35.%20Linux4004 It takes over 4 and a half days to boot and about 9 hours to draw a mandelbrot fractal, but it works.

[-]

WokeBriton@reddit

THAT's an excellent use of spare time, in my eyes.

I'm sure that I cannot be the only person who thinks this way about it...

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

I don’t really have much spare time, especially since I have a project car

[-]

Dist__@reddit

wow, what a read!

i envy his abilities to mix that with ordinary life )

[-]

Mediocre-Pumpkin6522@reddit

Sacrilege! Run CP/M! You'll be amazed at what you can accomplish in 64KB rather than 64 GB.

[-]

Ybalrid@reddit

Is that an MSX computer, or some other Z80 based computer architecture I have never heard of?

Cannot run Linux, that's for sure.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

MSX Hotbit HB8000

[-]

1man0ob@reddit

i dont think any modern distro will run on this.

[-]

ventus1b@reddit

I'm pretty sure no Linux distro ever did.
Not on that CPU, not on that amount of RAM, or without an MMU.

[-]

Tiger_man_@reddit

Unix ran on 64kb of ram but with 16bit cpu

[-]

UdPropheticCatgirl@reddit

But linux isn’t UNIX…

[-]

richardxday@reddit

You can run Linux on this hardware if you are determined (masochistic) enough.

What you'll need to do is to write a 32-bit CPU emulator in Z80 and then run Linux on that emulated processor.

If this sounds insane, it's been done here and here

[-]

TheOneTrueTrench@reddit

This is splitting hairs, but I'd say that's not running it on the hardware, that's just running it on a 32 bit machine. Like, the emulation layer is impressive, it's just that if you write an x86_32 emulator for it, you could run MS-DOS on it too. I'd say for something to "run Linux", it needs to run natively, on that instruction set.

[-]

richardxday@reddit

I'll happily split hairs!

Are you saying that someone running an Arm version of Linux under Qemu on an x86 platform isn't running Linux either?

And wait till you see how x86 instructions are actually implemented on a x86 processor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_microcode

In truth, the boundary of where emulation stops is a difficult one - after all, microprocessor op-codes are just a human readable expression of a number of low-level sub-instructions, is that emulation itself?

[-]

HeavyMetalMachine@reddit

This is so low effort to get a few upvotes. This literally has nothing to do with Linux at all

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

I want to add Linux to this old pc, as I’ve seen people do

[-]

JackDostoevsky@reddit

here's an idea: if you're not attached to it being original, gut it and put some modern hardware inside. could be a cool project!

[-]

UncleSlacky@reddit

You might be able to run SymbOS.

[-]

ByGollie@reddit

https://github.com/ytmytm/c64-lng

For the c64

Lunix, not Linux

[-]

baltimoresports@reddit

Best I can offer you is a Unix-like OS:

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Uzix

[-]

LionyxML@reddit

If ai recall it correctly, with the right expansion you can use it as a dumb terminal and connect to a Linux machine.

[-]

uchuskies08@reddit

Out of curiosity, on what format would you get data onto that machine? I see it has a "slot" up top but I don't know enough about these old computers to know what kind of slot that is.

[-]

KoliManja@reddit

What is this monster doing with 64kb RAM and 3 "microprocessadores"?

[-]

Swedophone@reddit

Most people probably used it to play (MSX1) games such as Konami Salamander https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfUSWl-P56s

BTW that cartridge contains it's own sound chip.

[-]

boobsbr@reddit

Meu sonho de criança ter um Hotbit.

[-]

boomerxl@reddit

Those arrow keys are unhinged. I love them.

[-]

Known-Watercress7296@reddit

https://collapseos.org/

[-]

crookdmouth@reddit

Someone ran Linux on a Commodore 64 but it wasn't really usable at all. Plus it was a virtual RISC-V32 running on the 6502. Took like 30 mins to boot up.

[-]

affective_tones@reddit

The question of running it normally is so ridiculous that it should be a joke.

But, you could hook up an SD card for the necessary storage and use an emulator. Hooking up more RAM would also be a very good idea, because using a SD card for that would be extremely slow.

People have run Linux on Arduino this way.

[-]

regeya@reddit

No, but I'm actually more than a little jealous. As far as I know MSX machines were never that popular in the US.

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Here in Brazil, they kinda were, however, they were quite expensive as I recall my dad saying it. This is a Hotbit HB8000

[-]

WDRibeiro@reddit

I've recently gifted my old but still working MSX Expert to my cousin. His father gifted it to me when I was a kid.

[-]

skiwarz@reddit

Gentoo

[-]

skrunkle@reddit

Gentoo

Yeah just set the USE=8bit /s

[-]

brazilian_irish@reddit

This was the first computer I ever used!! I've learned Basic on it

[-]

coffeejn@reddit

I think the first hurdle is getting the media needed for this device. Do you have any tapes and someway to transfer data to those tapes?

Either-way, I salute you for taking on this challenge. Good luck, let us know once you manage to get it up and running!

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

I don’t have any tapes as I recall, but I do have a tape recorder that my dad used to record games on and run it, since cartridges were expensive back then

[-]

DFS_0019287@reddit

Not in any practical sense, no. The only way people have made Linux run on machines such as these is to have them emulate a more powerful processor, and then run Linux on that. Of course, it's painfully, painfully slow and most likely completely impossible with only 64KB of RAM.

[-]

Abdalnablse10@reddit

I mean..... someone ran linux on the nes.

[-]

curien@reddit

It wasn't Linux, it was a custom kernel called LUnix ("little Unix") written for the 6502 (different CPU than OP's).

[-]

Abdalnablse10@reddit

He made two videos, the second one is named "Linux Running On An NES, But For Real This Time!".

[-]

curien@reddit

Huh, OK, I missed that one. Cool!

[-]

BlackMarketUpgrade@reddit

The real question is if you can doom running on it.

[-]

Icount_zeroI@reddit

I really like these old school computers. The unibody seems so cyberpunky like it’s from Neuromancer. (This is exactly how I vision them) I wouldn’t mind buying new Mac in such form.

[-]

Diezel77@reddit

This thing brought back memories. Friend of mine had the Z80 and Goonies the game. The countless hours spent infront of a small black and white tv with the z80 and Goonies. This was before I got my C64 so it was quite a while ago ❤️

[-]

MelioraXI@reddit

will it run crysis?

[-]

Background-Baby-9214@reddit (OP)

Maybe

[-]

Felt389@reddit

No.

[-]

Savings_Register9542@reddit

One thing to try would be terminal emulation software for the Z80A and then connect to a Raspberry Pi or other SBC which is actually running Linux. You would probably need to learn about RS-232 serial ports as well.

You would be using your Father's first computer as a remote terminal to a linux system.

[-]