F-22 Raptor , SU-57 Felon , J-20 Mighty Dragon

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Wompie@reddit

Why would you create an entirely new design if someone else spend hundreds of billions on it already?

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Complete-Clock5522@reddit

People don’t seem to understand this is how engineering works lol, if someone did something already don’t reinvent the wheel.

It is copied yes, but moving the status quo forwards will make all the countries keep engineering rather than stagnating

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Next_Juggernaut_898@reddit

There's a difference between being copied and outright stealing

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I’m not arguing that it’s not stolen, I’m saying stealing is how engineering progresses. It would be far more foolish for China to try and make a competitor of the F-22 or F-35 from scratch instead of learning from the US

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BigFatModeraterFupa@reddit

weren't multiple chinese people arrested in the US over the last 10 years specifically for stealing and sending classified info back to china?

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MoeSzyslakMonobrow@reddit

Not when you're enemies and there are literally no repercussions.

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PaulNewhouse@reddit

When you steal a design or some other tech, you don’t understand WHY the design is the way it is. That knowledge is skipped. And it will only hurt China long term. They know it.

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Complete-Clock5522@reddit

Eh that is true if the country isn’t smart enough, but China is plenty experienced to reverse engineer things

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KickFacemouth@reddit

Yeah I don't get what do people expect them to do...

"We have the opportunity to obtain engineering data from a more advanced country that could jump start our own weapons programs. Shall we go ahead?"

"No, that wouldn't be fair. We'll just stay inferior, comforted in the knowledge that we didn't cheat."

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caughtinthought@reddit

not blaming them at all, just pointing it out heh

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spkgsam@reddit

When the F47 or NGAD eventually flies in 20 years, are you going to call them rip offs of the J36 or J50?

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don_sley@reddit

F47 or ngad had been flying since the 90s, check out the X 36

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Smart_Owl_9395@reddit

when you lose, resort to revisionism. that shit is an RC plane and have nothing to do with the F47

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Mediocre_Gur9159@reddit

All ripped off from the Wright Brothers or the French depending on who you ask.

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caughtinthought@reddit

if they look the exact same, yeah

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SignificantSafety539@reddit

Check out the J36, the copier has now become the innovator

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KickFacemouth@reddit

Dude... Out of all of the 5th gen fighters to come out so far, it looks THE LEAST like the F-22. What else has delta wings with canards?

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Rdubya291@reddit

Canards are ghey.

But look at the cockpit. Definitely took a lot of inspiration from the F22.

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greendoh@reddit

"Inspiration" - more like pure espionage. The CCP has a very good program where individuals need only give little bits and pieces of data related to programs and they stitch it together.

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Rdubya291@reddit

I was being sarcastic. Almost all the tech is stolen.

You kids are sensitive on here.

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Mediocre_Gur9159@reddit

And the Germans developed jets as well as the Brits. We stole swept wings from the Germans VTOL from Russia under a deal with Lockheed and on and on. Without VonBraun we wouldn't have beat the Soviets to the moon. So who's stealing and why must it always be without more cooperation? 65 year old not sensitive kid.

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Rdubya291@reddit

No. Just a 65 year old senior.

It's ok, bud. Calm down.

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LowLessSodium@reddit

You see canards and think it's the same plane?

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ChiefFox24@reddit

You are aware that it is made with stolen plans of the f22 and f35?

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LowLessSodium@reddit

Were canards in those plans?

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Oxytropidoceras@reddit

If canards are the only thing you can point to as being different, aren't you kind of passively admitting that they're very similar?

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CarminSanDiego@reddit

He’s a classic China simp Redditor

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commanche_00@reddit

Murica numba wan yeehaaaaaa

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CarminSanDiego@reddit

I mean.. we objectively are when it comes to this..

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FoxhoundBat@reddit

And nothing about this comment chain suggest classic r/aviation murica numbah one simp Redditor to you?

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LowLessSodium@reddit

It's the biggest difference between the planes so I expect people with eyes and a brain to immediately see the difference. But other than the canards, then the top-down silhouette, length, engine shape, DSI, and rear ventral fins should be enough to discern the two aircraft.

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Oxytropidoceras@reddit

You do understand that people are able to see the difference and that saying it's a rip off doesn't mean China just literally made a 1:1 copy of the F-22 right? When people say it's a Chinese rip off, they're saying that there's many facets of it that are clearly derived from US aircraft, US aircraft that China illegally acquired a lot of documentation of and then began producing the J-20 immediately after.

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LowLessSodium@reddit

From what I see on this sub and in many other subs, people literally think the J-20 is a copy/paste in design, where putting them side by side visually results in comments saying it's a clone. So I don't think my interpretation was too far-fetched. But other than that, I don't dispute the fact that the J-20 was developed using the acquired F-22/F-35 plans. Just don't confuse it with design.

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Rbkelley1@reddit

They definitely stole the intakes from the F-35. They’re a carbon copy of

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AccomplishedLeek1329@reddit

Absolutely not, the geometry of the DSI bumps are completely different once you zoom in because F-35 and J-20 have vastly different top speeds, and DSI bumps are shaped to optimize air flow that way. The geometry of the DSI bumps on J-20A have been further changed to accomodate for higher supercruise speeds.

Also, DSIs are nothing new for China, first appearching in J-10c, then JF-17. China and the US are the only countries using DSI because of their respective investments into supersonic wind tunnels.

r/aviation is peak dunnig-kreuger.

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YurpeeTheHerpee@reddit

People like you vastly under estimate the scope and speed the Chinese mil tech is moving.

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Rbkelley1@reddit

They couldn’t figure out how to make it stable without the canards.

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caughtinthought@reddit

didn't say shit about ducks

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Funny_Union4257@reddit

Yeah I thought it was the same aircraft as the Raptor

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jon_targareyan@reddit

The raptor seems a bit more chonky near the cockpit but everything else literally looks like a carbon copy

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odd42Thomas@reddit

Friend shaped, not friend

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Merc5193@reddit

Faux-22 😂

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borschtzanetti@reddit

The F22 has been flown for sometime. Yes, in hostile environments. Those pilots, teach new pilots who innovate and breathe a scary capacity, into a stunning airframe. So yes, new design MAY surpass, the F22. But the experience of arming and piloting that aircraft. Means … it’s still a decade beyond Chicom or may 15 years beyond putininski.

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koinai3301@reddit

Are they planning a conformal fuel tank design for F22? Or they are going to go with external tanks? Would really beat the RCS with those tanks.

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SRM_Thornfoot@reddit

While the J20 and the F22 look like twins, they are made to be used completely differently. The F22 is more nimble and more stealthy and faster while the J20 has a larger range (roughly 1.5x) and a larger payload (roughly 4x). The F22 is an aggressor while the J20 is a defender (interceptor). The J20 carries large air to air missiles that have a range large enough to keep the F22 away without the F22 being able to get close enough to use its superior close range combat ability or even its missiles. The J20 is most stealth when viewed head on so it is likely going to fly right at its target, most likely a high value target like am AWCS or a tanker.

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OlasNah@reddit

Raptor at bottom, Dragon at top, ...sorry but the order is annoying.

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lueckestman@reddit

Hey they got the Mig right at least!

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hoggytime613@reddit

There's no Mig in this video

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lueckestman@reddit

It was just a joke.

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GodsWorth01@reddit

Edit in a “/s” at the end of the comment

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Haldron-44@reddit

Mikhail Iosifovich Gurevich must be rolling in his grave....

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klattz@reddit

They made the battlefield 4 fighters in real life, that is pretty sick!

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TheLeggacy@reddit

Convergent evolution or just stealing each other ideas 🤔

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Born-Process-9848@reddit

Convergent stealing yes.

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CaptainMegaNads@reddit

Yes.

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TooMuchButtHair@reddit

The other two haven't even caught up to the 30 year old Raptor.

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pasenast@reddit

I wonder if there’s any ‘57’s in the PLAAF?

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kaydizzledrizzle@reddit

Even they wouldn't copy that

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Important_Pain_5585@reddit

F22 Raptor ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

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RevvCats@reddit

The other year I got to see a F-35 acrobatic demo and I was like damn this plane is maneuverable, then a few weeks later I saw a F-22 acrobatic demo and my brain is still trying to process it.

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Important_Pain_5585@reddit

Omg im jealous 😫 so bad wanna see, hear and especially FEEL the Raptor fly. We see like F16 and A10 fly over our place and each time I snap into slo mo mode and just soak it in!!

I haven't seen any A10 for a few months 😕 😔 not sure if they stopped flying. 🤔 we live directly under a military training route 🤗❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥 C17 and C130 isn't usual either

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KaysaStones@reddit

Definitely the one I’d want on my side.

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Acheronian_Rose@reddit

I want to see them merge and fight guns only

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kWarExtreme@reddit

The SU-57 is so sexy.

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Far_Spring_6670@reddit

Got it, so an absolute beast and clear winner, something with decent engines and shit avionics/tech, and then decent avionics with shit engines and massive hyperbole for stats. At least they tried.

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Aught_To@reddit

The SU57 in the digital print is SO Rad. has to be the coolest looking plane in ages.

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Desert_2007@reddit

Cool plane, cool livery, cool name and limited production (shes real cherry)

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DagamarVanderk@reddit

If only it performed as well as it looks, would be a superstar

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Aught_To@reddit

Aren't there only like 4 of them also ?

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Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit

If you include the T-50s that were brought up to the Su-57 spec there’s about 30, less the ones that got bombed by Ukraine.

But they’re in a catch-22 where Russia is heavily reliant on export partners to subsidize production, but their ability to deliver nowadays is…dubious…, so export partners are hard to come by. Algeria has reportedly shown interest but we’ll see if it comes of anything.

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FoxhoundBat@reddit

Which T-50's, exactly, got "brought up to the Su-57 spec"? And which Su-57/T-50, exactly, got bombed. I know of the attack you are referring to, but I yet have to know for sure which frame got destroyed.

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Oxytropidoceras@reddit

But they’re in a catch-22 where Russia is heavily reliant on export partners to subsidize production, but their ability to deliver nowadays is…dubious…, so export partners are hard to come by

It's not just the Su-57s either, it's basically all modern Russian equipment. It's a big part of why their production largely focuses on producing outdated systems or upgraded versions of outdated systems (like the whole Flanker series), those are the systems that potential export countries see as proven, and it doesn't take much of a leap of faith to trust that the aircraft will perform or can be delivered while anything new Russia is making is often way over hyped and the ability to deliver at scale is never seen, so countries don't buy into those programs and they never go anywhere. It's what happened with the T-14, the Su-57 and Su-75, the S-500, and many more Russian modernization projects

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