Who does purism think they are charging $800+ for a phone with specs from 2010??
Posted by BrokenPickle7@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 173 comments
For YEARS i have wanted and waited for a device that runs bare metal Linux in my pocket, I last checked a few years ago with the PinePhone (\~$200, decent price) and figured if I waited eventually we would get the Linux phone we want. Today I went to Purism's site and happened to see they had a version of the PinePhone. Nearly identical specs (3gb ram, 32gb EMMC, 8mp front and 13mp back cameras) but for $800! To put this in perspective, You can buy an older OnePlus 6T for less than $100 and it's specs smoke the Librem 5 in every single way. Is Purism just gouging people that love Linux?
3lfk1ng@reddit
But what about Librem's $1999 Liberty Phone?
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/liberty-phone/
MattyGWS@reddit
It's because it's a custom made phone rather than a random cheap android hardware with a custom rom. And they don't seem to make many so it probably does cost a lot to produce them
ArtisticFox8@reddit
That's exactly what it is though
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
No its fully customized for protection, which is where it's price comes in
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
What exactly does "fully customized for protection" mean? I suspect nothing. The PinePhone is not much different but sold at a very different price point.
The problem with Linux phones is not that, slamming an opensource friendly SoC on a compact PCB is a difficult or expensive task, but that this alone is not enough. The general purpose SoCs lack behind dedicated smartphone hardware, the modems that are useable are slow and power hungry and often still need binary blobs, and the software just isn't there yet.
Purism has no solution for any of these problems.
dan4334@reddit
Custom hardware to allow switching off sensors and radios using physical switches. Ensuring that those sensors and radios are physically unable to receive power.
It's not just a mass produced phone. It's a niche product hence the price tag.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
The parts you mentioned are just not expensive though. The PinePhone Pro wasn't a mass product either. If you are already designing a custom PCB it's not a huge undertaking implementing a few switches.
dan4334@reddit
Except you have to realize that typically parts like modems are not discrete parts but built into the soc, so they have to source a discrete modem.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
If I'm not mistaken both the PinePhone Pro and the Librem 5 use a discrete modem.
There might be price differences, though I wasn't able to find anything regarding the Broadmobi BM818 in the Librem 5 - seems to be a chinese product but based on the Qualcomm MDM9X07. Should be about the same pricerange as the Quectel EG25-G in the PinePhone Pro.
Kevin_Kofler@reddit
The PinePhone is designed to be as cheap as possible from the ground up. PINE64 does or funds very little software development, relying on the community for most of it. Hardware reliability is mediocre: I have one entirely defective PinePhone (modem no longer usable) and one that is usable but also has some hardware components no longer working as designed, and looking through the forums, you will see that I am not the only one.
Purism does its own software development with PureOS. Not sure about the hardware quality, but it can hardly be worse than at PINE64. The specs are also better than the PinePhone's (closer to the discontinued PinePhone Pro). So that is where the much higher price tag comes from.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
Thanks, that's a good answer! I wasn't aware that Purism invests in software development too. I withdraw my argument.
Though I still think that Purism tries to cater to the MAGA or other similar minded people and tries to milk them.
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
Tbh Linux by itself to start is more secure than any other android that is used, there is so much shit that Google, Samsung or Apple uses to get data and shit off your phone by default, a phone coming with Linux doesn't have that and if you read the thing, it comes with hardware kill switches among other shit for privacy and protection, they have a whole document on it, and it sure as hell aint expensive or different, I can do that with my phone in roughly 10 minutes but don't have the proper stuff to do it atm and my phone doesn't have a Linux that supports it
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
Nothing you wrote is a reason why the Librem should be more expensive than the PinePhone Pro which runs on Linux too.
I mean I might be slightly wrong in the way that Purism does develop software as opposed to Pine64, so that's a factor of cost.
Apart from that Linux surely isn't more secure than Android - the distro of your preference might be more privacy respecting than an Android implementation - that's a very different thing.
shroddy@reddit
Sorry, but that is not correct. Android does have a stronger security concept, e.g. per app permissions, they are nowhere near perfect, but they help to mitigate at least some of the biggest dangers, while Linux by itself provides nothing, there are bandaids and addons like Apparmor, selinux (which is used by Android as well as one security layer), firejail... but none of these are as integrated into the OS on Linux as they are on Android.
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
Android is build on Linux and a lot of phones now a days steal your data to sell, so I'm gonna disagree with you on that, Linux is more secure and private as long as you keep it up to date and know what your doing, and if it made to be that way on a phone then it is, like graphene os and a few others I've seen, this is all fact from the research I've done on this, and also me playing around with multiple Linux distros
Lucas_F_A@reddit
Do you mean secure or privacy respecting?
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
There is no spyware or anything that could possibly download your data, you have full control over all of your files and shit and where it goes or even if you allow it to do something, if you don't then it'll listen, unlike windows
TheJackiMonster@reddit
It doesn't even use an SoC designed for mobile devices only because they wanted the possibility to have the modem externally to cut it from power via kill switch. Also they looked for an SoC with long-term firmware support by the manufacturer (something that most Android hardware does not offer).
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
Strictly speaking there are modern mobile SoCs that don't use integrated modems (Google's own Tensor series doesn't, for instance), it's more that any high end SoC with an external modem is going to be somewhat specialised and therefore highly expensive for a small volume device like this
flecom@reddit
really? show me another phone with the same SoC
MeanEYE@reddit
Custom made phone, what? It's not made for every buyer to suit their needs. It's still a mass produced device, just not as big volume as others. This is nothing more than economies of scale combined with people being willing to be ripped off. What's that saying again, as long as there are sheep there will be wool.
deelowe@reddit
They mean it's a custom design, not something that's built from a reference design.
MeanEYE@reddit
That's not what "custom made" means. Every device is made from reference design. It's been a long time since we stopped winging it in manufacturing of anything.
deelowe@reddit
I work in hardware dev. It's pretty typical to refer to such devices as "custom." As in custom development or not off the shelf.
rotomington-zzzrrt@reddit
this screams fed phone
4i768@reddit
IMO furiphone flx1 might be a better deal
danGL3@reddit
As for specs, Linux phones rely on hardware with fully functional/available open source drivers, and none of the high performance Android chip makers (Qualcomm/Mediatek) offer these
So SOC options are very limited in performance
LousyMeatStew@reddit
This. Open hardware is expensive.
Back in 2014, bunnie and xobs took Novena to crowd funding and ended up with a mainboard that cost $500 - adjusted for inflation, that's $686 today.
The MNT Reform costs 1400EUR for the base model - no NVMe storage and no wireless. And for that, you're getting four Cortex-A76 cores - same as what the Raspberry Pi 5 uses and will be easily outclassed by an Intel N100.
If you want to compromise on openness, you can get something like a Fairphone which uses semi-recent Qualcomm chips but you're still locked in to an Android-based kernel.
Pine seems to be using the RK3399 for the PinePhone Pro but I've never been that impressed with their build quality and while it looks good on paper with A72 cores, that's still a big, power hungry chip on a 28nm process (compared to 14nm FinFET for the iMX 8M Mini in the Librem 5). Heat and power constraints will likely constrain performance there.
oln@reddit
It's worth noting that fairphone has put in at least some effort into getting mainline linux working on their phones and there is ongonig work to get postmarketOS to be more usable on them. I don't think it's super usable at this stage as while it runs somewhat okay on the later models some parts are still not working but it may be more of alternative in the future.
LousyMeatStew@reddit
Good point, and to be clear, I wasn't trying to speak negatively about Fairphone. But I suspect Qualcomm's willingness to open up is the limiting factor for them. This forum post by user Keneda breaks down Ubuntu Touch compatibility on the Fairphone 2 thru 6 as of Aug 2025.
While it's still great that it works at all (and I'm sure the Librem 5 will have its fair share of teething problems as well), it's still not open hardware - at least, not in the way the Librem 5 is.
Remember, Purism is the company that thought Coreboot/Libreboot didn't go far enough and worked on actually disabling Intel ME. So it makes sense that for a phone, they're going to want an SoC with publicly available block diagrams, data sheets and reference manuals - which the iMX 8M Mini has but Qualcomm chips do not.
oln@reddit
Yeah, it's very hard to compete with google et al.
Even the fairphones get "flak" for being costly for the hardware you get. People want right to repair and open hardware but few people really want to pay for it or make any tradeoffs for it. (just see how tech influencers like LTT react to the fairphone - "wawawa it have to pay a bit more and it doesn't have a 10ghz cpu and 8k screen" , idk if there has been as much coverage of the librem but I'm sure it would be even worse.)
LousyMeatStew@reddit
Well, in fairness, the goals of Fairphone and Purism are a bit more nuanced.
Fairphone's emphasis is on corporate ethics. Repairability and open-ish hardware is a consequence of that, but that's not the driving factor. IE, Fairphone didn't set out to make a repairable phone, they set out to be an ethical corporation and repairability is a means to that end.
Purism focuses more on, for the lack of a better term, open hardware for paranoid people. It's not just a phone that runs Linux, it's a phone that has publicly available documentation for every IC included. One of the big limiting factors for them would have been a black box system controller, which is likely why they picked an SoC with an MCU included - further limiting the available options.
But if you approach it from a "I just want to run Linux" standpoint, any phone with an unlocked bootloader can probably work well enough. I still have my old Google Pixel 3 - it's not "open" to any appreciable degree but I can run NetHunter on it so it does what I need it to do.
LumpyArbuckleTV@reddit
Freedreno exists, in fact, it's exactly what Valve is using in the Frame, they're using a Gen 3 chip instead of the most recent ones because the Gen 3 has the Freedreno drive.
While these chips are slightly older, they are very fast and certainly good enough.
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
The main reason Valve are using Gen 3 is because it's taken that long for them to develop the Frame, and I've seen no evidence that they're using Freedreno (Valve are perfectly happy to run closed source drivers when it suits them, they're probably getting direct driver support from Qualcomm). Plus, the GPU driver isn't even remotely close to the only part of a mobile SoC that requires drivers
LumpyArbuckleTV@reddit
Well, they never used the official AMD driver because no one else did either. All gamers on Android already use Freedreno on emulators because the official driver is EXTREMELY bad, even on Windows, the driver is borderline unusable for gaming due to really poor Vulkan support.
I see no reason why they WOULDN'T use the far better open-source driver, yeah, their performance tends to be a bit lower, but you get a usable experience. Even if they were getting direct support, I highly doubt Qualcomm can make a decent driver, they never have, and I don't think they ever will.
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
Err, no? Everyone uses the official AMD driver because the open source mainline Linux driver for AMD GPUs is the official one, and has been for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDgpu_(Linux_kernel_module)
How is it far better to use a lower performance driver on a platform that's borderline for performance already?
Qualcomm's first party drivers are used on what is very likely hundreds of millions of devices, the fact their Windows drivers (a primarily Direct3D platform) suck for Vulkan specifically doesn't say anything about how their driver stack for a platform designed first and foremost to run the Linux kernel will do. Valve has different priorities to you here, the Nvidia Linux driver stack is pretty terrible too in terms of administration yet nearly everyone with Nvidia GPUs on Linux still puts up with it for the performance, Valve is much better placed to deal with or mitigate the downsides of the proprietary driver and much more in need of the extra performance that comes with insider knowledge of the hardware architecture.
LumpyArbuckleTV@reddit
RADV is the unofficial driver, I'm referring to the discontinued AMDVLK, it was discontinued because guess what, nobody used it. I was never referring to Qualcomm performance on Windows, where you got that idea is beyond me, I was talking about the performance on Android and that is a largely Vulkan-based platform now. On anything that requires accuracy, the official driver just does not function at all. While yes, the open source one performs a little bit worse. It actually can run games that the official one never could. Think of it like emulation hacks, while that does improve performance, it also reduces compatibility as you use more and more hacks and the Qualcom driver is full of hacks.
I can assure you they are not going to use the official driver, but it's not like I could ever convince you otherwise and if you think that the official driver is actually usable then you're beyond delusional and likely have no experience with the topic.
LvS@reddit
AMD employees have contributed to radv from day one. The only reason they didn't advertise it was that amdvlk was faster in certain situations that were important to AMD.
But they were perfectly fine with distros shipping it as the default driver for their GPUs if distros chose it for its features and were fine with slightly degraded perf.
Motolav@reddit
They're probably talking about the now discontinued amdvlk driver and referring to RADV as the unofficial driver. The kernel GPU drivers are just interfaces to start up and manage the hardware as Mesa(and other user space drivers) is what actually feeds the GPU instructions.
patrickjquinn@reddit
You know what. The reason Purism care is audit ability, surely a SOC II styles driver security certification by an independent body and purism would be enough to let them ship closed source binary blobs here?
ReallyEvilRob@reddit
I have never met a person who has ordered one and I doubt I ever will.
NotUsedToReddit_GOAT@reddit
It's expensive because nobody else wants a Linux phone, if you have 200 sales you need to make A LOT of money back from each phone
Fairphone has the exact same problem, not enough demand to reduce costs
IngwiePhoenix@reddit
Low volume + high ego...
Left_Revolution_3748@reddit
Because it is a linux phone with free hardware
It's too hard to build a phone like that
FattyDrake@reddit
Welcome to economies of scale.
emprahsFury@reddit
Librem 5 was announced almost 10 years ago. There are newer socs that are cheaper and more powerful. It's not an economic problem
ArtisticFox8@reddit
It was announced in 2018 though, not in 2015 though
Left_Sun_3748@reddit
And they said almost 10 years ago.
ArtisticFox8@reddit
In 2010s three years meant a big advancement in phone specs, so it's important.
2015 entry level smartphone: 8gb storage, 1gb ram
2018 entry level smartphone: 32 or even 64 gb storage, 4gb ram
mrtruthiness@reddit
Nope. The crowdfunder started late August of 2017 and met their goal by mid October 2017.
But your point is taken: "8 years ago" is more accurate than "almost 10 years ago".
Swizzel-Stixx@reddit
Though
Eu-is-socialist@reddit
Really ? What don't you launch your own phone so we can buy it ?
Left_Sun_3748@reddit
Can't to any worse then they did.
Eu-is-socialist@reddit
do it ... i'd love a gnu/linux phone!
sublime_369@reddit
That would mean a whole slew of new software and hardware development, retooling, testing and certification which comes with a major price tag and the market remains very limited.
Dialectic-Compiler@reddit
This is why I eventually totally dismissed in the libertarian claim that the market would adjust organically to fulfill consumer demand; the sheer amount of capital required to actually produce many modern goods makes this a pipe dream. When you have a small handful of producers and no realistic possibility for more to emerge, you tend to mostly see products that are good primarily for the owners of said capital, regardless of what consumers need or want.
iucatcher@reddit
nah this goes way beyond managing tight margins
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
It costs millions apon millions to make a single phone, just to put the price of that in perspective, once it's created it still cost a lot to make, and tbh I'd rather spend that than what Samsung and Apple are starting to charge
WickedDeity@reddit
Huh? My iPhone 17 Pro Max was a better value for the specs and cost less after trade-in. What does the fact it costs Purism more to produce a phone have to do with my buying decision? I brought a Pine Prone to support the effort but they also had no real follow up to it so that is dead.
ElsieFaeLost@reddit
It only cost left after trade in, it's originally $1200
WickedDeity@reddit
Ummmm That is what I said. It was cheaper after trade-in. LOL
Sorry but this phone is not worth it in anyway. One can get a Pixel phone like you inferred new or used and but GrapheneOS on it and be at 90% or better of the privacy Purism offers for much better hardware at even a better price depending on the Pixel you get. Not to mention almost full Android app compatibility with Plays services sandboxed.
Some of the advantages of the Librem 5 like hardware switches are even questionable when software, OS level based ones will do the job just fine except for the most paranoid.
You didn't buy one? The same with most people in this thread not six years ago let alone today. I agree the economy is very doubtful so certainly not paying $800 for a phone from 2017.
mkusanagi@reddit
It means that if you want specialty low volume products, you can’t expect price parity. Development costs must be amortized over far fewer units. If you’re not already familiar with this bit of economics do yourself a favor and follow a rabbit hole or two on Wikipedia or find a university lecture from an Econ course. It’s an EXTREMELY important concept in the modern economy.
WickedDeity@reddit
I understand the economy of scale but thanks for your concern. LOL My comment here was just in response to a very specific point in that comment. Did you even read it? The compliant was the price of an Apple or Samsung phone but they are a "bargain" compared to a Librem 5 so the comment made no sense. One who needs a more privacy focused phone has better options.
Yeah Purism sells very few units because it's a phone with weak specs for 2017 for $800. You need to secure funding, introduce new products, and create a following to sell more units. The company and this phone is DEAD which is the actual answer for the OP. The person I replied to here and most people here defending the phone didn't buy it six years ago (it was $600 than) and certainly will not be today.
I am a person who actually puts their money where their mouth is and have purchased numinous hardware devices that support and run Linux. I would never buy a phone from Purism. it's basically a scam.
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
In the comments there are too many unnecessary justifications for a company well known for scamming people.
BrokenPickle7@reddit (OP)
Do tell, how they scamming people?
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
I have a few links saved, whether they are enough or not: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
BrokenPickle7@reddit (OP)
Oh damn you came with receipts! They sound like a shitty company and it is clear it’s absolutely price gouging like I suspected. Thank you for your response.
DesiOtaku@reddit
I have a Librem 5 along with a OnePlus 6. The OP6 is much better in performance despite the similar age. At the same time, Librem 5 allows for just about any distro to be installed. I actually use PostmarketOS + Plasma Mobile which is much better than the Purism OS it comes with. I even have to option to install straight up Debian on it.
r0bc94@reddit
But couldn’t you install postmarketOS on any other supported off the shelves phone?
DesiOtaku@reddit
postmarketOS has pretty limited support. The OnePlus 6 has support because a volunteer was able to go though the hassle of rebuilding the device tree for every release. Meanwhile, the OnePlus 8 has zero support because nobody has gone through the trouble of building the device tree.
The nice thing is that the Librem 5 has upstreamed their drivers which is why so many more distros support it.
rabbit-guilliman@reddit
Pinephone is cheap because they use commodity components (just whatever is cheap and works). The Librem is expensive because they went out of their way to buy a bunch of special components that were all open source with no binary blobs and the SOC processor that they selected for this reason is really expensive. Plus you're paying for Purism to develop a custom Linux distro just for your phone (Pinephone uses an existing Linux distro from someone else). If you really want to splurge, Purisn were producing some phones in the US at twice the price of the ones made in China .
I also looked at getting a Linux phone and the Pinephones had an issue at the time where they left a batch of phones in a freezing warehouse which killed all of the batteries, and the Librem 5 was in really rough shape because it was still early days, so never ended up buying either. I felt like I wanted a phone that I could count on to work if something happened, and neither the Pinephone or Librem were that phone at the time.
mrtruthiness@reddit
The pinephone is just as FOSS friendly as the Librem 5 ... it's just a little slower. The Librem 5 has to use a blob for memory training, not so for the Pinephone. The Librem 5 has embedded proprietary firmware on the wifi modem and the cellular modem.
Zettinator@reddit
No, the purism phone isn't that special. It does run binary blobs for multiple components, it merely does so in a way that follows GNU RYF "rules" (but just barely), which in practice means they introduced some indirection to load the blobs and you won't be able to easily update them. It's sketchy AF.
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
To be fair, that also applies to most hardware in the x86 world too. Even CPUs have firmware these days, and there's no way in hell you're going to be able to get the source for that
GreenSouth3@reddit
*cpu's have Always had firmware
Zettinator@reddit
The point isn't that there's firmware. The point is that Purism is doing some needless indirection to skirt GNU RYF rules that supposedly make the hardware more "free", but realistically there are only downsides without any improvements to any freedoms. Note that Purism is also advertising the fact that they are RYF compliant. It's all very very questionable (just like the RYF program by itself).
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
What exactly do you mean by "indirection to skirt GNU RYF rules"? A quick search suggests that the main controversy around RYF certification for the Librem is that some users don't want certification as that limits options for updating firmware, but restricting the ability to write firmware into a device isn't skirting the rules, that's been GNU's explicit official position on when firmware has to be free software for more than 2 decades, and is stated in the RYF criteria, emphasis mine:
I can't see any other obvious exceptions in the rules, and following a very clearly stated exception isn't skirting the rules, it's just following them. If it was skirting them they wouldn't have been so explicit in spelling the exception out.
vazark@reddit
Honestly librem 5 biggest contribution was libhandy which is the inspiration for libadwaita and gnome supporting responsive design on the component level in general.
I believe pine64 did go down the right route with trying to engage the community and devs.
The projects simply exposed the state (more like utter lack) of support for actual telephone tech in the open source domain.
Maybe we’ll have something nice in a decade but I’m not holding my breath for it. The year of the Linux phone is still quite a distance away
wowsomuchempty@reddit
I remember buying a SBC from Pine. I also bought an add on WiFi/BT chip for it.
The add-on had no drivers. Pine had no plan to provide them, relying on future support from 'the community'.
No more Pine for me.
kcxt_casey@reddit
pinephone is also cheap because they paid $0 for software development and just sent free devices to devs. It was definitely a lesson in realising that Linux Mobile distros just aren't yet able to support users and provide anywhere near an equivalent experience
walkinreader@reddit
They lack economy of scale
MetaTrombonist@reddit
Freedom isn't free.
bennyc500911@reddit
Everyone in this thread who defends Purism is a dumbass.
The Pinephone has almost the same specs, is also made by a small company, and less than half as expensive.
cranberrie_sauce@reddit
its because of people like you we dont have linux phones
GreenSouth3@reddit
there's always ONE
cheeset2@reddit
What does this mean
high-tech-low-life@reddit
Someone has to go first and over pay. First gen is never cheap. But you have to bite that bullet to get to cheaper future generations.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
Except that the Librem is not just not cheap, it's obscenely expensive compared to the PinePhone. It's a scammy product
high-tech-low-life@reddit
That's possible. I don't know anything about that specific product. I just know that early adopters pay more.
MeanEYE@reddit
Except it is. First Android was in 179$ with 2 year contract. I bought my HTC Hero for about 500$.
IAmJacksSemiColon@reddit
I honestly feel this is a terrible attitude to have. Nobody is obliged to buy a commercial product that doesn't suit their needs.
BrokenPickle7@reddit (OP)
LOL and why’s that? I would have absolutely no problem with spend up to $1500 on a Linux phone if the specs were good and everything worked. Spending $800 for essentially a development device is no bueno.
Accomplished-Moose50@reddit
Most people don't have 800$ to spend o a phone.
ipsirc@reddit
Most people wouldn't be able to buy this phone, it's a limited edition. Most people can't a Ferrari, too...
that_one_wierd_guy@reddit
the difference being that a ferrari is worth the price tag
Irverter@reddit
As a luxury item, not at all. The price tag is for the status of having a ferrari, not for the car.
windflex@reddit
True, they have 1200 to spend on an iPhone instead
joeyb908@reddit
Consider most people probably get their iPhone from their carrier that’s either 100% covered or heavily subsidized.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
Isn't that a pretty country dependent take?
mrlinkwii@reddit
mostly no , its common all over europe , teh US, canada and most big nations
Accomplished-Moose50@reddit
Don't be a smart ass, not everyone has an iPhone
WokeBriton@reddit
Have you bought one?
If not, its because of people like YOU, too.
Nervous_Bunghole@reddit
I lolled. Like celebs asking the public to donate.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
You don't seem to notice that the Librem is a scammy product, tailored to fit the fears of some people? The PinePhone is a lot more honest...
delebojr@reddit
I thought \~70% of smartphones ran Linux with well over 90% of all smartphones running some sort of UNIX or UNIX-like system?
danGL3@reddit
Android runs a Linux kernel but a very constrained/limited userspace compared to desktop Linux
delebojr@reddit
Yup, but it's still Linux.
IAmJacksSemiColon@reddit
I honestly feel this is a terrible attitude to have. Nobody is obliged to buy a commercial product that doesn't suit their needs.
Living_Shirt8550@reddit
develop
maxximillian@reddit
It's not being sold for it's specs, it's being sold for it's sec.
GreenSouth3@reddit
This^
benhaube@reddit
Linux on smartphones in general is unusable. I wish it wasn't the case, but it is.
gr4mmarn4zi@reddit
because companies don't sell specs, they sell a feeling and a feature set (at best).
suncontrolspecies@reddit
buy volla or fairphone with Ubuntu Touch
acceptable_humor69@reddit
This phone is entirely built in US and that's how much it costs to produce anything in the states. Add to that low volume ans novelty hardware.
73a33y55y9@reddit
Do they deliver this phone or just charge people and lie until you give up on it?
l-roc@reddit
I just saw a talk about Linux phone ecosystem and the stated feeling towards Librem 5 was "Great that it exists, the company did a lot for making Linux viable, but only get it as an 'artifact' or if you want to support Purism".
If you want to have an actually usable device go with Furiphone FLX1 or maybe PostmarketOS if you can live with some stuff not working yet.
73a33y55y9@reddit
Do they deliver this phone these days or just sell it and lie and deliver nothing like they did before?
arf20__@reddit
Apart from hardware with FOSS drivers, they don't use child labour to manufacture the phones.
xmBQWugdxjaA@reddit
It's made in the USA, with the most expensive labour on the planet.
But yeah, Linux phones will never be mass market unless Valve or another big company starts.
Lucifer220778@reddit
The high cost comes from using specialized open hardware components with no proprietary blobs, unlike mass-market phones.
Merjia@reddit
I'm going to guess without knowing anything else about this phone, is that it's not designed for everyday users, but rather people who have certain business practices they want to keep under wraps?
And if that's the case; you're paying for the network, not just the phone.
ousee7Ai@reddit
Good question. Who knows? They do it because a few peole might be tricked by their marketing?
PJBonoVox@reddit
You really can't figure this out?
WickedDeity@reddit
I can't and yes I under the scale of economics isuue. The real question is why are they still selling this phone at this price RIGHT NOW? You reduce your manufacturing costs by producing new phones people will actually buy. They can't be selling any phones as who the fuck would buy this? It makes no sense as a product or solution for anyone at this point.
PJBonoVox@reddit
Like all the other commenters have said: this is a niche product. Niche products have to sell for niche product prices due to a wide variety of reasons. The thing that makes this product what is will jack the price up because of the economies of scale, like you said.
Instead of attacking it in such an angry way, why not suggest what they could have done? That way there is at least a discussion point here.
WickedDeity@reddit
I am not questioning the pricing of product. I am questioning why they are still selling the same product that no one wants. You shift the economy of scale by selling more units right? You do that by inducing new products and creating a following for your products. How does selling the same phone from 2017 for $800 do that?
I get it they can't get the funding to continue on but why are still selling that phone? The answer is it's kinda a scam at this point directed at the most paranoid that feels must have a non-Android phone with hardware kill switches. There is a market for a privacy first phone but not for the stagnant hardware at the price Purism is selling at.
I suspect the GrapheneOS phone will be a much better value and buying a used Pixel and installing it your self even better. Why would anyone buy a Librem 5?
PJBonoVox@reddit
I was going to reply, but your last paragraph shows you don't know the difference between running an OS on a proprietary phone and what the Purism mission is. Please educate yourself first, it'll make life a lot easier for all of us.
WickedDeity@reddit
Ummmm You did reply dumb ass. I get it... It's hard to make an argument and easy to make personal marks.
GrapheneOS an privacy focused, open source OS installed on a Pixel phone was mentioned as a practical, much better value ALTERNATIVE to the Librem 5.
Do own a Librem 5 Phone? Any totally open source Linux phone? I mentioned in another comment I have bought the Pine Phone. I even purchased a Firefox OS phone and donated to the Ubuntu Edge back in the day. I would love to own a semi-modern Linux phone with hardware that has open source drivers. I would pay a reasonable premium for it. Do you know where to buy one in the US? It doesn't exist!
Again! No one in their right mind is buying a 2017 phone for $800 just because it is fully open sourced hardware running Linux unless it smells like Angel farts and comes with a naked woman chained to it.
We are done here but thanks for playing.
Liemaeu@reddit
The phone was kind of scam. The advantage was having a phone fully designed by them, with all firmware, etc under a free-license, 100% trustable. (Remember, you don‘t have the same level if you buy a random device & install Linux on it).
Then they anounced a couple of month later, after the shipping startet, whoops, we messed up. Actually we cannot control if the chinese manufactorer is actually putting in the parts like we said them to. But no worry, we now produce a 100% trustable version of the previous announced 100% trustable version of the Librem 5 in the US. You just need to throw your current one away and buy the same one again, but pay a couple of 100$ extra.
konsoru-paysan@reddit
Holy fuck emmc is worse then that pathetic 3gb ram, literally praying for the privilege of having a Linux
meutzitzu@reddit
None of the modern ARM chips let anyone besides Qualcomm compile and run code on them. Not even the Chinese manufacturers.
Qualcomm basically says "make the chip exactly like this, and don't ask questions" They make it They receive it, flash their binary blobs onto it and see if it works. No-one besides Qualcomm, not even Google knows how to compile the code that makes those chips work. Google only uses the provided API endpoints, and android apps then only use Google's API.
If you don't have qualcomm's blessing, you can't run code on them. Period.
meutzitzu@reddit
Ask Qualcomm
Ok-Bill3318@reddit
There’s this thing called economy of scale. iPhones have it. This phone does not.
MoonQube@reddit
Low volume production is more expensive
TheJackiMonster@reddit
Do you see a ton of other mobile devices running plain Linux with essentially free software only except some bit of chip firmware in the wild? No? Yeah, that's the price to pay for that.
They have specifically picked the hardware to be compatible with FOSS and have long-term support. They adjusted the whole build multiple times to tune the device, adjust specs and improve the experience. They have contributed all necessary software changes to make this thing work to the public. That's what you are paying for with this device. The $800 bucks includes FOSS development cost.
If that doesn't fit for you, don't buy it. As you said in the post there are other vendors which only manufactured hardware and let the community to the heavy lifting in terms of software for them. You can buy those.
Also you can get some devices cheaper when buying used or left in the drawer from other enthusiasts. There are posts like this frequently in forums.
I personally would look at what FuriLabs is doing currently, if you are interested in a Linux phone with newer hardware. Also other hardware might support Mobian or postmarketOS. Just don't expect drivers and everything to run without issues.
BrokenPickle7@reddit (OP)
There are apparently over a dozen devices that can run mobile Linux.
0riginal-Syn@reddit
It costs a small company that does not have high sales a lot more money to buy hardware than it does a larger company that moves a lot of stock due to not being able to take advantage of bulk pricing. Companies always face an uphill battle due to this. The same goes for all the costs of running the organization, manufacturing, development, etc. I would bet their actual margins are not very big at all.
rb3po@reddit
Also, are you buying a privacy focused phone, or a gaming console?
1u4n4@reddit
Check the Fairphones, they don’t come with Linux preinstalled but they have good support on postmarketOS
Tho the Fairphone 6 kinda disappointed me because it has some downgrades from Fairphone 5 (USB 2.0 in 2025????)
MrCheapComputers@reddit
Because top end phones are subsidized by not only economies of scale but selling your data/app purchases.
AnarchisticPunk@reddit
Also FWIW some of the largest buyers of these phones are government agencies who like the fact they can audit the firmware and that the phone has hard killswitches for the modems
KnowZeroX@reddit
Likely because they are in a contract for a certain price, so even if component prices are lower they don't have option of renegotiating (not enough demand)
firen777@reddit
https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s
https://youtu.be/-IjUryQOlgk
Just took a quick stroll in r/Purism and things barely improve.
But at least some people were getting their refund back after 6 years and after filing a dispute with their credit card companies so there's something.
CaptainObvious110@reddit
That's crazy and messed up the credibility of the company. It's best to have a device that is of decent specs and price point then to out out something that's not going to be capable enough for most people
Choice-Biscotti8826@reddit
Privacy tech
MeanEYE@reddit
It has nothing to do with privacy. It's just being marketed as such. Getting Fairphone with eOS is far better for your privacy than getting Librem.
ComplexMycologist196@reddit
These devices are for the people who care about "privacy" and "security" - usually criminals and those who haven't learned that the government doesn't care that you download chinese cartoons.
rarsamx@reddit
Economy of scale, lack of power of negotiation with the components provider.
MeanEYE@reddit
Economy of scale plays a huge role, however they did epically mess up. Poor communication is their forte. Be it with customers or suppliers. They managed to mess up every possible way of relaying information important to quality, delivery dates, pricing, etc.
vAcceptance@reddit
Does it have all of those shitty backdoors like ime and stuff? Cuz if it runs on a chip with no backdoors then maybe it is worth it?
deltatux@reddit
They don't have the order volume to get bulk discount to push the prices down. Component costs for them is higher than mass manufacturers.
Also they're a niche boutique manufacturer so they would also price it as that. Their devices aren't geared to the masses.
cyphar@reddit
Most of the people here seem to be defending them, but as someone who backed the Librem 5 "crowd-funding" campaign back when they first announced it in 2017 and only received my phone in 2021, it's pretty obvious they massively oversold this and are continuing to oversell it (including the "Made in USA" versions).
I get that it's very expensive to make small volume devices and (allegedly) doing the design in house, and it is laudable that they actually did eventually ship everything to backers (though a few years late with very few updates) but I think they should've just sold their existing inventory and not made anymore after that point. It's kind of ridiculous that they seem to actually expect customers to be happy with purchasing one.
The software was actually unusable on the version I received (maybe it's better now, but it's been sitting in a drawer for the past 4 years) and the camera was comically bad (maybe it was a software issue but the live preview and captured photos were worse than my Nokia brick-phone from the early 2000s). Then again, I just looked at their site and "recording videos" is still on their roadmap, with "taking photos" being their most recently achieved goal. This product has had 8 years of development.
WickedDeity@reddit
At least you bought one as I doubt most here supporting this phone still existing at this price point bought one. I bought a Pine Phone to support the effort and play around with a Linux phone but they didn't continue with it either. Pine64 has other products they sell but I have no idea how Purism continues as a company.
Irverter@reddit
Because it's not just a phone. It's a linux phone, a quite niche product. And on top of that, a linux phone focused on security and privacy, which is a niche market within a niche market.
Those that need a phone like this, can and will pay for it. If you think the price is too high, then you ar eont of the people that needs a device like this, go buy a pinephone or a oneplus which seem to fit your desired features/price.
tomasig@reddit
try getting some phone from second hand that supports postmarket os. Ive got One Plus 6 for around 70 EUR.
Matheweh@reddit
Scale of production.
mattias_jcb@reddit
This ☝️
FizzBuzz3000@reddit
I have one of these phones... Which I bought as a joke back in 2019 when they were ~$600 and not even released for the backers. And awful is genuinely not the right word for it. Vaporware is better described. Ever had a phone that last only 4 hours? This is a phone that does that in about 2. Purism is a scam, don't buy any of their products.
TimeBoysenberry8587@reddit
It's a phone , how high do the specs have to be ?
bubblegumpuma@reddit
Open hardware tends to take a little bit of a specifications penalty at the design stage, because usually the most well-known SoCs are also years old, or based on very well-known architectures. There are some counter-examples to this, but it tends to involve working closely with an SoC vendor, which is rare. They also have to include the cost of developing at least some OS to ship on it, since not everybody wants to buy a fancy development board. Then, while they develop that software further and keep it updated, they kind of have to freeze that hardware design and specs in place so they aren't trying to hit multiple moving targets all at the same time.
It's not my taste either, I'm kind of on your side, but those are the reasons. While it's fun to develop hardware that's as open as possible, I think it's more practical and fun to pick up old stuff and bring it up to speed with Linux. That has no quality standard, however - you can find some gems, but you can also find some barely functional lemons, and it's hard to know which you have without doing some research beforehand and really familiarizing yourself with things like which SoC vendors and precise SoCs have the best support from Linux. That's why I understand some people wanting to buy hardware that is "open design" and open source but has strong support from a vendor in terms of software updates. That has a much higher quality standard.
whizzwr@reddit
The price of.. Freedom™️
Seriously though. It's cheap for big companies to produce smartphone due to economy of scale, that and monetizing your data on some way subsidized the phone cost. The latter is literally the price of freedom.
OgdruJahad@reddit
Well there are things like Termux that are a pretty close alternative to running baremetal Linux. on Android phones.
mrandr01d@reddit
Android is basically a Linux distro anyways. Just buy a pixel and put LineageOS on it.
T-Dahg@reddit
404 media did a great interview with them: https://www.404media.co/how-a-2-000-made-in-the-usa-liberty-phone-phone-is-manufactured/ Can recommend listening the podcast episode.
LeeHide@reddit
They are making a Linux phone. If you think that's expensive, just make a cheaper competitor and out-price them.
Abdowo@reddit
They can't sell user data to get the price down
sublime_369@reddit
They think they're a company who understands the amount of development effort required to bring this to fruition and the small size of the market to recoup their costs.
So go buy one of them then!?
INITMalcanis@reddit
Keep in mind they dont get the benefits of scale and they don't get the revenue from stealing your data.
MHMD-22@reddit
any product that's nich and not mass produced will be like this, smaller companied cannot afford to make it cheaper the sane way big corpos do.
baffled-magpie@reddit
Try founding a company without millionaire investors and making a linux phone from scratch yourself, then you'll have a better understanding for why the price is that high.
Mindless-Tension-118@reddit
Privacy and freedom duuuuh
alicefaye2@reddit
yes pretty much, but it’s also a niche. i don’t know how much it’d cost to produce a product like this but not many people will actively seek this out, so the price is higher.