linux really isnt that complicated
Posted by Shot_Duck_195@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 139 comments
hi
im someone who recently switched from windows, ive known linux for a long time, ive heard much about it but just never really bothered on switching to it since windows did everything i wanted, now recently windows has annoyed me a bit in certain aspects and so i was ready to switch.
first thing first...... picking the right distro
i within a few hours decided on fedora, if im going to be fully honest - i dont really have an actual reason on why specifically fedora, i just picked that distro because i saw fedora with KDE gui and thought it looked cooler than mint with cinammon or ubuntu
so yeah thats literally it
even though thats literally just a gui and....... yeah i know
gui itself isnt "fedora", its kde
i can also have fedora with gnome or xfce or whatever and same applies with other distros
i know
so far..... it has been good
like the install itself was incredibly simple, the few days that ive spent only using fedora has been good
wifi works, bluetooth works, my keyboard works, my mouse works
everything
i can change my wallpaper within 2-3 clicks, literally just right clicking the desktop and then clicking "wallpaper" option and thats it, or if i want to add my own custom wallpaper, i just need to click the "add" button on top right corner
THATS IT
firefox is already installed
there is also a "software centre" which is basically like a better version of the microsoft store, but i noticed..... where is the task manager? OH right all i have to do is install the "resources" app from the software centre and thats it, its basically the same thing as the task manager on windows
cool
audio works
i installed steam and discord without any hassle either, the simple few step guide was on the docs fedora site
discord did required me to extract the file, which is just 1 click extra, thats all
and then finding an executable file in that folder, thats all, took me 5 secs to find the file
now i have discord
simple right?
+ there was a github repo which told me how to install the nvidia drivers, rpmfusion and all that
i just copy pasted the codes into terminal. thats it, copy pasting
and after 15 mins thats it, rebooted my pc
yeah
like how isnt linux for everyone? this assumes that people who arent for linux should just go back to windows but honestly fedora has been so simple
like its only slightly slightly more technical than windows but thats about it
like if something like fedora or mint just isnt for someone then neither is windows
that person should learn on how to use a computer first, like this is SIMPLE
the only potential issue that i can think of is just the app support, a lot of apps dont support linux but there are a buttload of alternatives so yeah
linux is easy
at least the beginner distros, i know gentoo exists, yeah
it looks scary
but fedora, mint, ubuntu, POP os, its barely any harder than windows
like if someone finds these distros really difficult then same thing applies to windows, the person just doesnt know how to use a comptuer at that point
like fedora is even a tiny bit harder because you dont get certain things that you do get with mint or ubuntu hence why i mentioned that github repo AND EVEN THEN, its EASY, its just copy pasting
skladnayazebra@reddit
Come on people, don't be so grumpy and bitter about someone getting excited!
OP, that's the spirit! It's nice to see curiosity and easy-going attitude towards Linux. This is what matters the most. Yes, there's a lot going on under the hood, and the more you learn and try, the more powerful you get. Learning is a gradual process, you don't know everything from the day 1. You just do things in your system, and then you get curious about something (or something breaks), you google it, you find the solution, you learn new stuff and understand your system slightly better. This is very rewarding process. Sometimes annoying, sometimes scary, but if you're willing to figure stuff out, you and Linux will be good friends. And due to the open nature of the system and its software, there's always some information out there, waiting to be found. Even the system itself has built-in manual for many programs ( type
man <command>in terminal, for exampleman lsto learn more aboutlscommand)A piece of advice I can give as a first year Linux user myself: it is a very, very flexible system with many ways to do things, allowing you to turn your system into a complete mess. But, many of those things have been done before, and there are safer and reliable ways out there, typically called best practices. I recommend sticking to those. Also, people tend to get veeeery opinionated about how to do things in Linux. Sometimes it's useful to listen to them, sometimes it's misleading. They just have their ego attached too their technical knowledge. Be aware of that when making decision on what advice to follow
NoRaspberry8262@reddit
But you shouldnt tell new users that linux is easy bc for most it isnt and it actually ends up being a waste of time
LordRybec@reddit
This is 100% false. Linux has not been hard since the early 2000s. Installing could be a challenge sometimes, if you happened to have hardware that didn't have Linux support, but even that had become extremely rare by 2010. Now days, Windows has far worse driver support problems than Linux, because for the last 6 versions of Windows (everything after XP), every time MS releases a new Windows, hardware companies discontinue and drop support for a bunch of their hardware and the old drivers don't work with the new versions of Windows. Nearly all of that hardware still has support in the most recent Linux kernels. Unless you are using hardware that's less than 6 months old and made by a small vendor, you've got better than 99% odds that it will work out of the box with any modern Linux distro. And that's better than Windows, because very fresh Windows drivers are significantly more likely to be buggy, so even if you use Windows, small vendor hardware that is still within that 6 month window has poor odds of working 100% correctly. (And this is often true even of large vendors. There's a reason one of the first recommended steps to solve chronic bluescreens is to update video drivers. Neither Nvidia nor AMD can seem to manage to make a Windows driver that doesn't cause some kind of hard crash until a few years after releasing the new product. Amazingly, their Linux drivers don't seem to have this problem...)
So the reality is that Linux is not just easy for new users, it is generally easier than Windows! And it has been for a long time.
The first time I setup a computer with Linux for completely new users was around 2005 or 2006. It was SUSE Linux, setup was easy, and they used that computer for almost a decade with a single issue or complaint! I've helped many people get Linux on their desktops and laptops since then, including people with light technical knowledge and people with no technical skills or experience whatsoever, and the only time I've ever seen any of them experience issues is when some vendor (mainly Nvidia) deliberately sabotages Linux support. The truth is, Linux has been 100% suitable for new users for over two decades now.
NoRaspberry8262@reddit
based on my personal experience and from most people I have heard its nothing like you describe. I dont meet a lot of people who use linux irl, but when I go to cybersecurity competitions we sometimes discuss it and if approximately the top 10% of hackers in the country agree that linux is complex af and takes so much time to fix things then I have concluded that it is so.
Installing the right drivers is complex even for a technical user. Windows basically always has the correct default drivers and rarely has issues. Linux on the other hand basically never has the correct default drivers and requires technical knowledge to download them. If the compter isnt in a perfect condition then windows usually works better. For example, had a 2019 HP gaming laptop without a battery and I installed mint cinnamon. But bc all the bios resets after it is taken off the ac power, all drivers get messed up again. On windows it always worked fine. Ofc you can spend hours installing nouveau drivers which have slower performance, but in windows things just work. You can also look around reddit forums and see everyone else also having problems with drivers, although they blame it on nvidia.
Thats just drivers, linux generally has so many issues, major ones and small things. Whenever I install a new distro to any of my laptops, it has never worked out the box. For everything I want to do other than browsing firefox, it requires hours of debugging, work that shouldve been done by developers.
I installed fedora on my 2022 msi and everything is broken. No ethernet, cant connect to projectors, touchpad scrollspeed is at lightspeed, no games work, 5% of games arent even available, cant connect my fpv drone remotes. Its literally just building your own pc
LordRybec@reddit
Starting in 2005, I've setup a significant number of Linux systems for other people. I was Vice President of my university's Linux Society for 4 years from 2011 through 2015, and during that time we had members from a wide variety of majors, and I helped a lot of them (especially those from non-technical majors) install Linux. I also helped a significant number of new students in my own major (Computer Science) who had no prior technical experience setup Linux on their laptops. I don't know the exact total, as I didn't keep count, but it's somewhere between 25 and 50 people, and that's only counting people I helped personally. During Linux Society meetings, other society members also helped people install Linux.
I've only had to deal with driver issues during installation a few times. Linux almost always has the right drivers already included by default, unless you are using some outdated or bare bones distro. The first driver thing I had to deal with was that 2005 thing that I did for my in-laws, and that was because they had a winmodem. If you are not familiar, winmodems cheat by making the CPU do most of the digital signal processing, which means they need big proprietary drivers and slow your computer down. I happened to have an external modem, so I lent that to them and setting up the driver was necessary but easy. (Technically the driver itself was already in the kernel, but it wasn't configured for a physical modem, because even in 2005, the modem module was mainly used as part of the ethernet pipleline and not for physical modems.) From then to 2011, I had one driver issue, with my own machine. That was a wifi driver issue with a well known problem chip (I think a Broadcom or Atheros), and I had to install madwifi or some such and use the Windows driver. Again, this wasn't difficult, but it wasn't something a normal user would have an easy time with. Between those, I installed Linux on several other of my own computers, with no need to install even one driver. Actually, I did install Linux on my wife's old ThinkPad around 2008 as well, no problems, no manual driver installation at all. In late 2010 I started college, and I remember helping one student get Linux setup on their laptop during my first or second semester. It was a new student with no prior technical experience (about 80% of new CS students in my program had no prior technical experience, and since they mostly had Windows laptops and we were expected to do assignments in Linux, many students decided to install Linux so they could code locally without being connected to the department's "Linux Lab" within their first 4 semesters). Again no problems. I joined the university Linux Society in 2011, and because I had 10 years of experience with Linux (and no one else wanted to do the job) I was quickly asked to take the position of VP and accepted it. For the next four semesters I ended helping around two students a semester install Linux in the CS department, and 3 to 5 students a semester in Linux Society. The university I attended also does not have a normal 2 semester per year track system and instead has 3 semesters a year, with each student assigned to 2 of them. While I didn't help CS students with installs during my off semester, I did still attend, VP for, and help students in Linux Society. I recall only a single driver issue in all of that time. It was a student in the CS department who I was friends with. He figured out how to install Ubuntu on his own, but he couldn't get the GPU switching feature between Intel and Nvidia to work. We never figured that one out, but it also was not a breaking feature. Since I graduated I've helped people significantly less, but I did have one driver issue with an audio driver in 2018. That was the result of Debian having a slow release cycle, so it didn't have the latest kernel, and the sound card in my new laptop was extremely recent. The latest kernel already had support before release, but Debian took a few months to catch up. Since 2018 I haven't had a single driver issue with Linux.
(continued...)
LordRybec@reddit
(...continued)
Now, as far as Windows "always having the correct default drivers": You've clearly never installed Windows. You've only ever used recovery CDs, which is recovery, not installation. Now days, Windows typically has the right ethernet driver by default, and that's about all it has. Back even in the late 2010s, it didn't even have that, and to download drivers you first had to download the ethernet driver on a different machine and copy it on a USB drive, before you could get online and download the rest of the drivers on the new install. I've installed Windows hundreds of times, and it has never ever had even a majority of the necessary drivers included by default. Not even once!
It sounds like you've just had bad luck on the very few machines you've installed Linux on. That's unfortunate, but it doesn't reflect the current reality of Linux. Driver issues have not been common on Linux in two decades.
It is worth noting: Nvidia is a source of a lot of driver problems in Linux. It's probably the single biggest source today. I didn't have any issues with Nvidia on my current desktop, when I was running Linux on it, but Nvidia has always been hostile to Linux. (I only have an Nvidia card for neural network training, and I'm only running Windows because Nvidia cards tend to run CUDA slower on Linux, and I needed that performance.) Back in the late 2000s, Nvidia had a backdoor in their Linux driver, and when it was discovered they admitted to having known about it for years. Such a massive security flaw that is known about but not fixed for that long is no accident. Now days they are dropping driver support for barely old cards and refusing to give open source driver devs enough information to keep the cards working on new distros. This isn't affecting most Nvidia cards, but it's just enough.
As far as all of the Reddit posts you cite, you are aware that millions of people use Linux now, at least now and then, right? Say 1 in a thousand people have a driver issue (Windows it's closer to 1%, maybe a bit higher) and complain about it on Reddit. That's thousands of Reddit posts for almost no driver issues! Reddit has far fewer than that, and that's even considering that many Linux users end up putting Linux on multiple computers and thus having multiple chances for issues. So we are talking easily tens of millions of Linux installs, and Reddit has what, a few thousand posts complaining at the most? Thanks for citing Reddit here, because that's very strong evidence for my case, when you do the actual math.
skladnayazebra@reddit
Oh man, you used so many words to prove your point with so many unnecessary details. Add a TLDR, for the love of Torvalds
LordRybec@reddit
If you aren't down to read, maybe try Twitter instead of a forum like Reddit.
NoRaspberry8262@reddit
ok, then either im stupid or increadibly unlucky.
skladnayazebra@reddit
Ok, now that I've heard your personal experience, I understand where you're coming from, and I think it's valid. Even though Linux nowadays behaves well on most systems, there are still unfortunate edge cases. Your claims as truthful as of those who says they have everything nice and easy. I myself have almost everything working fairly well, but there were some issues requiring hours of researching and troubleshooting. There are still non-critical things I didn't fix yet.
I would say never fully believe blanket statements like "Linux is easy" or "Linux is hard", because they just don't reflect the entire reality of it. It depends on many factors - your distro, your hardware, your knowledge and willingness/skill to troubleshoot. And it's not static - over time you can go from easy to hard (everything worked then boom it's not) or from hard to easy (it was pain in the ass to setup but now it just works). Or you can learn stuff and get better. Or an update rolls out and fixes your bug automagically. Or you can over-configure and break it.
Linux and distro maintainers work on making Linux compatible with as many configurations as possible, so naturally over time it becomes more compatible. This is the fact I hope we can at least all agree on.
skladnayazebra@reddit
I disagree strongly. We are free to say whatever we feel like about our favorite system, and others are free to interpret it and make their own decisions on what is worth of their time. Assuming we're talking about adults capable of critical thinking, and not mindless lemmings following whatever they find on the Internet.
SomePlayer22@reddit
Yes. It's easy to a usual user. If you install a good distro and let everything working, the user will have no problems with it.
The problem is when you have a hardware that is not well supported in Linux. In windows would be the same thing, but happens (a lot) less frequently.
The samething with software. If the user need a software that doesn't work in Linux, you have a problem. Maybe try winboat, wine, but.... It is a problem.
LordRybec@reddit
Hardware that isn't well supported in Linux is less common than in Windows today, and it may be far less common, because hardware vendors often don't create new drivers for their discontinued hardware when new versions of Windows come out. I've had all sorts of issues with lack of Windows support for hardware that Linux supports fully, and this includes some hardware that was still available new and only just barely discontinued. Some vendors even discontinue hardware synchronized with a new Windows release, because they don't want to write drivers for the new Windows.
I've had hardware support issues with Linux. The last time I had that issue was a sound card, back in 2018, and support for the card was already in the latest Linux kernel. The reason I had an issue was that I was using Debian, and it's slow release cycle meant that the stable branch wasn't using a new enough kernel. The problem was resolved in less than 6 months, and if I hadn't bought such a recent system, it never would have been an issue in the first place. The time before that was a wifi driver around 2005! Hardware support issues in Linux are very uncommon now days, and they mostly only happen if you buy very recently released hardware from a smaller vendor that doesn't keep up with Linux support. Anything off-the-shelf that's more than 6 months old is extremely unlikely to have driver issues in Linux. Windows, however, is another matter. The newest stuff will definitely have drivers for Windows, but despite MS driver signing, odds of buggy drivers are high for very new stuff, and if you have hardware that was discontinued before or even a bit after the most recent version of Windows was released, you'll have nearly 100% odds of very solid Linux support and much lower odds of Windows support. (The exception being Nvidia hardware, because Nvidia puts a huge amount of effort into preventing good open source drivers from being developed and then will suddenly stop providing any driver support itself while giving the open source driver devs the middle finger when they ask for enough information to do it themselves. I won't buy Nvidia anymore, since they recently did this, and it resulted in Linux distros having to drop support for Nvidia cards that aren't even 10 years old, because the open source driver is no better than the default VESA driver. After all the things Nvidia has done to sabotage Linux over the years, you get what you deserve if you still choose to give them your money.)
As far as software support goes, anything the average person needs exists on Linux, and a lot more beyond that exists as well. If you are so picky about what software you use that you have to worry about this, that's your problem. The one exception is games, where another company's alternative just doesn't cut it. Wine is working extremely well with the vast majority of games now days, and there are a ton of different Wine frontends that make it trivially easy without having to do any terminal or other complicated stuff.
So, hardware is not the problem it used to be. Linux has better hardware support than Windows nowdays. Software support can still be hit and miss, but unless you are a gamer or have extremely specific and narrow needs, you can get any software you need for Linux, and close to 100% of open source alternatives are just as good as the proprietary Windows alternatives if not significantly better.
It's not the 2000s anymore. Most of the commonly cited issues with Linux haven't been real problems since the early 2000s, and the rest haven't been problems since the late 2000s.
SomePlayer22@reddit
Thanks for the complete answer. I will not buy nvidia anymore. I don't pretend to return to windows.
LordRybec@reddit
My next laptop is going to have Intel Arc video. I prefer Intel CPUs and AMD GPUs, but it has gotten nearly impossible to laptops with that combination. Intel has a long history of providing very good open source Linux drivers for its hardware, so I'm hoping that Intel Arc will have equally strong driver support. That said, I don't know if I can recommend this for less experienced users yet. If you don't need high performance graphics, I'm sure it's fine. If you do, Arc is a very new technology and thus may have hardware bugs. In my opinion it is better than giving Nvidia my money. I'm hoping I can use it for moderate generative AI loads (mainly image generation right now), but I have no experience with it at all.
Honestly, it's generally a good idea, if you can, to do a little research on how hardware you are considering buying handles with Linux. While Linux generally works as well as Windows out-of-the-box nowdays, you can occasionally run into driver issues (the same is true of Windows), and if you double check, you can avoid that entirely. (Technically, it's smart to do the same thing with Windows. I've had laptops with Windows where the Bluetooth didn't work right. This is a common Windows problem, and if I had done my research first, I could have avoided problem machines. Windows own Bluetooth stack is a hot mess, and that makes it super hard to write stable drivers for it that work correctly.)
But yeah, I won't buy Nvidia anymore. The last straw was Nvidia dropping driver support for some of their professional cards, forcing Linux distros to drop driver support for those cards entirely, because Nvidia won't give them enough information to make the open source driver work for them. My brother has an expensive professional engineering laptop, a few months ago his graphics suddenly reverted to the basic no-driver graphics after an update to the Linux distro he's using. He called me for help, I did some research, and I found that Nvidia is not only abandoning professional products that only around 6 or 7 years old, they are basically trying to force people buy new hardware by refusing to let anyone else support them. Only, you can't replace soldered on discrete video cards in laptops, so even that's not an option. I've disliked Nvidia since it was discovered that they put a back door in their Linux driver back in the mid 2000s, but this is it. If they don't care about their customers, I won't be one of their customers, and I will never recommend them again. Nvidia is no longer the only valid option for machine learning, so there's not even that pressure for me to use their garbage anymore. (The computer I'm writing this on has an Nvidia card I got in 2018, for machine learning, because there was no other option. I now sincerely wish I had been able to give that money to someone else, because I wish I had never given that company even a penny of support.)
Anyhow, good luck! Modern Linux is pretty easy and generally a smoother experience than Windows. I can't wait to get my new laptop so I'm not stuck working in Windows all the time.
cgoldberg@reddit
I wouldn't use "you can just copy and paste stuff you don't understand" as a selling point or safe approach to using your computer.
Sudden-Lingonberry-8@reddit
you can just prompt the linux to configure itself, ez
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
i mean ok maybe i did phrase it in a bad way
what i meant is just copy pasting the few commands from the github post install guide
like here https://github.com/devangshekhawat/Fedora-43-Post-Install-Guide
thats what i mean by "copy pasting"
because unlike mint or ubuntu, there are things that you do not get out of the box with fedora, this is also the reason why some people claim fedora is not a beginner friendly distro and more of an intermediate distro, but i disagree
its just copy pasting from a single site
LordRybec@reddit
Debian has some of this. I wouldn't call it a "beginner friendly" distro, but then, the average person doesn't have to install or setup their Windows or Mac install themselves either. If we put Linux on fair footing, we would have to ignore things like this, because it would be done by the vendor before you ever got your computer.
And as far as copy/pasting specifically, as long as you have a basic understanding of what's going on, it's fine. I wouldn't copy/paste something I didn't understand, but that Github page explains what is going on, and you aren't going to learn without someone explaining and showing you the commands. I'm not sure why you got downvoted. Did whoever did that expect you to hire someone to come teach you that stuff in person? That's just idiotic. Nearly all of us learned by finding information on the internet demonstrating what commands to run and explaining what they do. That's exactly what you've done here, and while it's true that there might be some risk, how do they expect you to verify that it's legitimate? Again, the only way to do that would be to get someone to come to your house in person to teach you, and even then it would have to be someone you already trusted for the risk to be significantly lower than copy/pasting code off of Github.
That said, the average user shouldn't need to do this, but the average user shouldn't need to install their own OS in the first place. Linux should just be an option that you can buy the computer with, or they should find someone who will install Linux for them for $20. (It's generally easy enough to install that $20 is a completely fair price. Now days, the actual labor time required to install Linux comes out to around 10 to 20 minutes, so $20 comes out to $60 to $120 an hour. And with an unsupervised installer, you can cut the installation time even further!)
SkyKey6027@reddit
To put it into perspective: I have always used Windows and i understand it, i am now using Linux Mint and i understand it. I have tried to use macOS but i did not understand it.
Rumpled_Imp@reddit
Many people don't want to think about their operating system at all.
jEG550tm@reddit
Many people dont even know there even is this thing called "operating system" that they could even think about.
stprnn@reddit
you have to know something to get the best results out of it. linux is just simpler to understand overall.
lets not celebrate ignorance please
TheFuckboiChronicles@reddit
What, in the comment you responded to, did you interpret as a celebration?
shogun77777777@reddit
No one here is celebrating ignorance. You’re out of touch with regular people. Touch grass
Micah_Bell_is_dead@reddit
Many people just don't need to know the specifics of how their PC works. If all they do on a computer is in a web browser, why should they have to learn their OS?
stprnn@reddit
they dont have to. but if you do youll get more out of it.
parrot-beak-soup@reddit
This is a silly take. While true, most don't have the time when they're struggling to survive.
You can also do this with vehicles, an industry I work in, but 99% of people aren't digging into what their ECU can do with a simple OBD hack.
Hell, now we're seeing vehicle manufacturers lock owners out.
The equivalent to this is buying a computer and not being able to modify the OS.
stprnn@reddit
wtf are you talking about? XD
Micah_Bell_is_dead@reddit
More what exactly?
stprnn@reddit
more features,more control, that sort of stuff
remmus2k@reddit
People don't want that. They want Facebook, their youtube, etc.
If its not something one would like to play with, then one would usually follow the path of least resistance.
stprnn@reddit
Dude most people don't care about learning about their car,doesn't change the fact it's a great idea.
I'm not gonna celebrate ignorance.
remmus2k@reddit
Nobody is going to argue with you that learning about their operating system is good for them. Same for eating healthy, but not everyone does that. Its better to encourage someone to learn instead of shaming them.
Learning new things takes mental effort and people are barely hanging on with making ends meet. And I dont blame them for wanting to escape to entertainment to relax.
Thats not celebrating ignorance, thats survival and human nature.
Its must be nice having all of the time in the world learning things you like and typing on reddit.
stprnn@reddit
good thing none of that was happening here.
PierpaoloSpadafora@reddit
Knowing that a tiny package like ImageMagick, with just a single command, can convert 1,000 photos from one format to another in a matter of seconds really puts into perspective how unnecessary are some SaaS tools that say: “upload all your files, we promise we won’t look, and we’ll convert them for you for free” or “oh, you want to convert more than 5 photos? Then you need to pay our pro-premium-deluxe-super monthly subscription plan”
Micah_Bell_is_dead@reddit
Sure, but how often is the kind of person I mentioned converting image formats en masse? There's a good chance they couldn't even tell you the difference between a png and jpeg on even a superficial level, so why should they care?
I think most tech people, and especially Linux people vastly overestimate the technical knowledge and needs of the average person who is just trying to write in a Google doc or watch cat videos
PierpaoloSpadafora@reddit
I understand what you mean, and I agree.
My previous example was extremely specific, if I have to answer your question in a more general way:
“Why should someone learn about their own operating system?”
I'd say the issue is not just about operating systems or technology at all, it's about understanding your needs and the tools you rely on. I know nothing about plumbing, and I would surely look ridiculous to a plumber if I tried to unclog my sink with baking soda and vinegar just because “it fizzes.” I’m still free to make such choices even after being told that, in my case, the appropriate tool is a chemical drain cleaner.
What I mean is: My lack of motivation to learn about a topic and make the most appropriate choice can be considered a “worst-case behavior” when designing general guidelines meant to be accessible to everyone, but I don’t think it should be treated as the “average behavior” of the population.
I don’t think people are stupid; I think they are treated as if they were stupid most of the time and this happens both out of condescension and because “the less you know, the more you need to pay someone to know things for you.”
@stprnn may have expressed it poorly, but I believe the idea they were trying to convey was the same: ignorance should not be celebrated, instead, we should help people become informed so they can make their own choices with a clear understanding of the tools at their disposal.
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
This point is greatly weakened as LLMs continue to improve. Now I can pose my problem to chatgpt (or some local alternative) and get a solution like this without even knowing it's a script.
jEG550tm@reddit
I'm not celebrating ignorance you dickwipe
deadlygaming11@reddit
Yeah. When I mention to guys I knew that I installed Linux, they were quite confused and I have to explain an operating system with examples like Windows and Mac
fb_noize@reddit
I think that describes it perfectly. As tech-savvy person you will always live inside a huge bubble of people who know, at least to some degree, what’s going on under the hood.
Reality is, most people don’t understand even remotely how a smartphone or PC works. And that’s fine too.
minmidmax@reddit
Yeah for the majority of people they just want to find their stuff, run their apps, and not get into a situation where shit seems irreparably fucked up.
Most people don't want to custom config a bunch of stuff. Most people don't want to type a bunch of shit into a command line.
It's not because they're stupid or lazy. It's because they have more important things to do.
Linux is great but it's been developed by a bunch of opinionated, egomaniacal goons who perhaps don't fit into a neurotypical way of being.
Linux needs more normies, honestly.
stprnn@reddit
you have to know something to get the best results out of it. linux is just simpler to understand overall.
lets not celebrate ignorance please
Loddio@reddit
Least toxic linux user
stprnn@reddit
How is this toxic XD
Christopher876@reddit
I agree that people shouldn’t be ignorant.
But at the same time, I would bet that you have many things in your life that you don’t know how they work and you’re very ignorant about.
You probably don’t know how to change your car’s transmission like I do. Should I tell you that you should know how to do that since you drive a car? You’ll get better results out of it from tweaking it too
stprnn@reddit
You might want to read my comment again.
Rumpled_Imp@reddit
Let us not condescend to strangers lest one appear as an insufferable cunt. I suspect my decades of experience will trump your third broken Arch install.
stprnn@reddit
arch? are you ok buddy?
Rumpled_Imp@reddit
I am assuming that you struggled with Kali for a couple of days and just gave up.
Anamolica@reddit
Then they has better stay far away from Mac and especially far away from windows!
NEK_TEK@reddit
I like to think of it in terms of cars. Windows is like an automatic transmission, you don't need to think about what it going on, you sacrifice control for simplicity. Linux is like manual transmission, you do need to think about what is going on and you sacrifice simplicity for control.
For most people, they just want to go from point A to point B and not think about it. They just want to turn their car on, put it in drive and go. This is why windows has seen much more success. Similar to manual transmission, Linux requires more effort on the part of the user to do the simple A to B task.
This is the dilemma I often find myself in which is why I tend to use both. I use windows for 95% of what I do on my computer (gaming, surfing the web, writing documents, emails, movies, etc). When I do need to do those more complicated tasks, I will break out WSL2 and use Linux. It is a happy medium for me.
ijwgwh@reddit
You're likely on a desktop. I have 4 mobile devices (laptop or tablet) Linux doesn't work fully on any of them. Nvidia hybrid graphics, external monitors as default, camera drivers, boot settings, one way or another, it's impossible to get it to work on any of the main distro branches or their forks. I've tried the forums, I've tried the kernels, I've tried it all.
ben2talk@reddit
It really is very complicated - try writing your own operating system if you think otherwise.
However, it's not that hard to use.
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
it isnt complicated
well for use
thats what i meant
anything can be complicated if you really want to go into depth
driving a car is relatively simple
but good luck building a car
ben2talk@reddit
Well there again, there's a long thread right now in Discuss about 'create new folder' behavior in Dolphin... something which we thought was 'simple' turns out to be almost unfathomable for many in the thread.
For example, on an android file browser - when you SELECT a folder, the option to 'create new folder' vanishes. We instinctively enter the folder to create a new subfolder...
But with Linux, we can create 'mkdir 1 2 3' three folders in the PWD, or 'mkdir 1/2/3' for three nested folders.
We can context click a folder to create another INSIDE it, but if we click 'create folder' should that go inside the selected folder, or ignore the selection? or should (as with android) the option to 'create new folder' disappear when you select a folder?
However, unless people are too rigid with their thinking, they just get on and work with however a particular GUI or software works - and doesn't waste too much time trying to fix it.
Recently, Dolphin was 'fixed' and now it got reverted, so that the outstanding bugs for 'ignores selected folder' will remain 'unsolved' when really, I don't think the solution is quite obvious - that it's a different paradigm.
Loddio@reddit
A Task manager is already installed with kde.
You can open it with the key combo super(windows key) + ESC
za72@reddit
it's all text
ZunoJ@reddit
Lol why is the fucking wallpaper that important? Also, sure it is easy. It is a damn end user operating system, thats what its meant to be
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
ive seen lots of memes that are like
"linux users spending 2 hours writing commands in the terminal just to change their wallpaper"
and what these memes do is just scare new potential linux users away from linux
LordRybec@reddit
You can spend 2 hours writing commands in a terminal just to change a wallpaper, but no one actually does that unless they really want to. As you've discovered, instead you can do it more easily than in Windows through the graphical interface.
There are a lot of Linux memes based on how Linux worked in the 1990s. In the '90s, Linux was less than 10 years old. In addition to KDE, Gnome, and some of the other big desktop managers, there were a lot of small, experimental window and desktop managers, most of which were half baked. I don't think there was ever one where changing the wallpaper took two hours. Maybe 30 seconds to a minute, if you had to open multiple terminals so you could read and then type out a long filename. Most of those window/desktop managers no longer exist, and those that do are much more fully featured now, and more importantly, this was already the case in the early 2000s. When I started using Linux in 2001 or 2002, the most incomplete desktop it came with (Red Hat 8 or 9) was Enlightenment, which was pretty bare bones but was still fully usable (and you could change the background image pretty easily). Enlightenment still exists today, and it's actually my favorite Linux desktop, but it as awesome as it is, it lagged behind options like KDE, Gnome, and even XFCE, LXDE, and OpenBox enough that you won't find it in most modern distros. If you want it, you have to download the source code and build it yourself. I have done this (around 2018 or 2019), and it's not super hard, but Enlightenment still wasn't terribly stable. It's certainly usable, but I has problems just often enough that I eventually had to go back to LXDE. I do intend on trying it again, but it seems it just never reached the critical mass required to get enough devs to make it production ready. (That said, I do use Terminology, the terminal program from Enlightenment. It's both stable and pretty awesome! That one is in the Debian repositories.)
Linux has become something of a kicking boy for those who have unreasonable loyalty to some other OS, especially Windows but also Mac. Because Linux was developed publicly rather than behind closed doors, it is fairly well known what it was like before it became a more mature desktop OS. The result is that when some Mac or Windows worshipper wants to throw shade to make their favorite OS look better by comparison, they'll take some aspect of ancient Linux that made it difficult to use (though to be fair, most computer users back during early Linux had to use the command line now and then even in Windows, so it wasn't that different/more difficult), and then make a meme that massive exaggerates it. And as often as not, it something that wasn't actually ever a problem or difficulty for Linux. I've seen memes about having to reinstall Linux or Windows every year to avoid stability problems, and while that was kind of true for Windows 95 and ME (but not 98 so much), it was never true of Linux. Where that idea actually comes from is early Macs! Early Macs, mainly the late 1980s and early 1990s Macs, had some issue with the OS that would slowly make it less and less stable. Macs were the first computers that crashed often enough for people to care about it. I don't know exactly what the problem was that caused this, but my aunt and other people I knew who owned Mac during that era told my parents (when I was listening in) multiple times that if they didn't essentially completely reinstall or factory reset (I don't know the details of how it actually worked) at least once a year, it would start crashing so often and running so slow that it wasn't usable. That has never been a problem for Linux, and Windows 95 and ME did tend to accumulate a lot of cruft, but they typically lasted at least 2 or 3 years before needing that. (I wonder if the problem was hard drive fragmentation. I don't think early Macs had any utility for fixing that, but late DOS and early Windows-OS (Windows 95 and later, prior windows weren't operating systems so much as window managers/desktops on top of DOS) both had defrag programs and included instructions and recommendations for using them in the manuals they came with. Windows ME did have serious stability problems as well, but I don't recall them getting significantly worse with time, if you regularly defragged.)
TimurHu@reddit
The meme is hyperbole about how hard things can become when they aren't working well or when you have a more complicated setup. There are some desktops where you need to manually change a config file to change your wallpaper. It doesn't take 2 hours though.
Gather_ur_Places@reddit
Thanks for calling out that Linux isn’t as complicated as everyone pretends since honestly half the battle is people scaring each other off with outdated info and you just cut right through that nonsense.
LordRybec@reddit
Exactly. Modern Linux is as usable as Windows or Mac, and in many cases it is significantly better. Linux hasn't been hard for the average computer user since the early 2000s (if we consider installation fairly, because no average computer user has to install Windows themselves, and even in the early 2000s, Linux was easier to install than Windows). Since the late 2000s, Linux has been generally easy for average users. Today, you don't even have to worry about hardware issues any more than you would have to for Windows. (Windows drivers can be hard to find, you have to download and install them manually, and even hardware that is 4 or 5 years old may not even have drivers for the most recent Windows version.)
What scares people away is fear mongering by Linux users who haven't kept up with Linux advances over the last two decades and well meaning Linux users causing anxiety by giving people way more information than they can handle. Most people, if you say, "You can customize it completely!" will hear something more like, "You'll have to make a ton of decisions before it will work for you." And if you tell them that it won't run MS Office but it has LibreOffice, they'll hear that they have to jump through hoops to do things that are easy in Windows. The reality is, to them LibreOffice and MS Office are just different versions of the same thing, not completely different applications, and they'll figure it out without any difficulty.
(That last one is based strongly on evidence. Back when MS Office 2007 came out, the huge changes prompted a bunch of companies to reconsider using MS Office, because MS offered expensive courses to retrain their employees, and it didn't seem reasonable to pay for the new product and for retraining every time MS decided to change something big. It seemed like a scam (which it kind of was), so a significant number of companies switched to OpenOffice. Most of the companies had only a few complaints right after the switch and then nothing. Some research organization convinced some of the companies to let them interview employees affected by the switch, and their response when asked how they felt was, "It's basically the same thing. I had to figure out where some options were, but it's not really any different." One thing they also found was that power users in some of these companies liked it a lot more than MS Office, because OpenOffice had a strong online community of people willing to help answer any question, while MS tech support was terrible and MS forums rarely produced good answers in a timely manner.)
Madhey@reddit
So you're really saying that KDE is easy. Learning how Fedora operates under the hood would be something else ;)
LordRybec@reddit
Yes, but that's not a requirement of normal use. That's the point. If we want to make a fair comparison with learning how Fedora operates under the hood, we would have to compare with learning how Windows operates under the hood, not with how Windows works for casual use. And we are going to compare those, Fedora wins by an even bigger margin, because Windows is proprietary and closed source. To learn how Fedora works, you just look at the C, C++, Python, and whatever else source code. To learn how Windows works under the hood, you are going to have to disassemble Windows binaries and then work out exactly what all of that massive mess of assembly code does.
If we want to make a fair comparison of normal use, Fedora is no more difficult to use than Windows, and most of the time Linux is easier than Windows now days.
sudogaeshi@reddit
I don't think that's really true
I can't speak to Fedora, but if say, you do an Arch install the old way (or even Debian starting from bare bones net install), reading from the manual you'll see.
It's not necessarily less work but it is simpler and all there to see how all the parts are working together. This was more true in before systemd and udev etc, but generally remains true
mofomeat@reddit
It's closer, but there's quite a lot you don't see there.
Leading-Plastic5771@reddit
Oh, it very complicated. It depends on how far you want to stray from being a user.
LordRybec@reddit
Linux is largely as complicated to use as you want it to be. If all you want is a casual web browsing, email checking machine, it's super easy. Even for a lot of more common productivity applications it's also super easy. If you want to get into the gears, you can do anything from changing your background image and screensaver (no more difficult than Windows) to customizing your kernel (as hard as it gets), but you don't have to do any of that if you don't want to.
gpowerf@reddit
Linux is much simpler to get the grips with than Windows. Every time I have to use Windows for anything work related it strikes me as a legacy mess with layer upon layer of all crap nobody needs and with zero creature comforts.
CydonianMaverick@reddit
It really isn't though. People on this sub really underestimate how much the switching users don't want to use the terminal
LordRybec@reddit
Why do people still think you have to use the terminal to use Linux? That hasn't been the case since the early 2000s! This is why people are afraid of Linux. People keep telling them they'll have to use the terminal to use Linux, and that's completely false! The terminal is often easier than doing something the GUI way, but most computer users never need to do anything where that is the case, and even when they do, it's no harder doing it in the GUI than doing it with the GUI in Windows!
If you have to do something in the terminal, it's not something normal users are ever going to need to do, and suggesting otherwise is exactly why people are needlessly afraid of Linux!
mofomeat@reddit
Might be getting better. I haven't seen any threads complaining about it in a long ole time now. Maybe 6-12 months ago it felt like there was one or two on the front page of the sub at any given time.
Or it could be grognard confabulation on my part.
Samiassa@reddit
Honestly one of the biggest problems with people switching is they’ve had their whole life to learn how to do everything on windows. Linux isn’t harder or worse at doing those things, in a lot of cases it’s actively better, but it’s certainly different. If you’d never used a computer before most Linux distros are simpler than windows. But if you’ve spent an entire lifetime learning windows quirks it’s kind of confusing. Honestly as someone who only really got into computers in their teenage years the simplest os I’ve used is Mac. Mac has its flaws but it’s not a garbled mess like windows is. I use arch btw so it was a steeper learning curve than windows but honestly a lot of stuff was just objectively easier on Linux.
gpowerf@reddit
I like that you got that "I use ARCH BTW" in there. Up vote 👍
Catadox@reddit
Arch users always gotta say they use arch btw like it’s some kind of flex 🙄
(I also use arch btw)
bullwinkle8088@reddit
I've never used Arch but if you want a real flex here it is. :)
LordRybec@reddit
I was going to say this, if someone else hadn't.
I've done that. It took me a few weeks, and I'm not still using it, but it was 100% worth all of the time, effort, pain, and suffering.
That was back in \~2005, on a Pentium 4. I wonder if it is any easier today... I might have to try it again. Despite the time and such, it was also very run and quite rewarding!
deadlygaming11@reddit
Yeah. That was the first thing I found when I switched. If I needed to change something simple, it was just a menu or command away. I felt that with windows, I always had to search up how to access different things and when I wanted to, it was always awkward. A good example are package configurations. With Linux, its under either /etc for global stuff or ~/.config for user stuff whereas on windows its under app data which you access via pressing Windows R then typing %appdata%. It was just a lot more awkward.
Samiassa@reddit
I literally had to open the terminal and run commands I didn’t know just to format a usb drive. In Linux I can genuinely do it in a gui. That’s really a condemnation of the billion dollar company that’s supposed to “just work” and exclusively use gui stuff
Fr0gm4n@reddit
And a lot of those people come at it with the expectation that it'll be "Windows, but not from Microsoft" just because the DE includes a windowing system that superficially operates similarly.
LordRybec@reddit
Amen. I'm stuck using Windows right now, and I can't wait to get a decent Linux system setup so that I can get back to the productivity levels I could achieve in Linux! I've gotten more used to it this time around, but every time I have to use Windows when I've been living in Linux, everything feels like a massive chore. Going the other direction is a huge relief, and I can't wait to experience that again!
deadlygaming11@reddit
Yeah. Windows always feel like Coruscant from Star Wars. Its just levels on top of levels on top of levels and none of them are good except the highest one, or basically just the one you see. Linux in general always feels like they improve each layer instead of just adding a new one to hide the old one constantly.
allocallocalloc@reddit
Linux is also somewhat of a "legacy mess," although much more transparent. But this is more with regard to interfaces that are supposed to be completely immutable (e.g. instead of fixing
openorsigactionwe just getopenatandrt_sigactionon top).NeighborhoodSad2350@reddit
I broadly agree.
If you are familiar with how Windows handles directories such as Program Files, AppData, and System32, you will find that many items can be considered in the same way.
Additionally, when dealing with proprietary software like Discord, sandbox environments such as Flatpak prove useful. They automatically handle all configuration in one go, and the .desktop file is installed, appearing in your desktop environment's start menu. (However, do be wary of malicious packages.)
LordRybec@reddit
Most people have no clue how Windows handles those directories and don't care. With Linux, you don't have to know or care about those things either to use it effectively. Overcomplicating it by talking about stuff like that is exactly why most people are afraid to even try it. When they hear that, what they think is, "There's this deep stuff about Linux that I have to know to use it, and I'm getting by fine on Windows without knowing about those things, so I'll stick with Windows."
Instead just explain that Linux is at least as easy to use as Windows and leave it at that. If they bring up the "Program Files" directory, or any of the others, then you talk about them. If they don't though, mentioning them yourself sends the message that they have to know about things like this to use Linux.
The reality is: Linux is very easy to use out of the box and has been for over two decades. You don't need to have any special knowledge of the underlying mechanics. If you want to learn more, it is often easier with Linux than with Windows, but you don't have to learn more for it meet your needs.
And yes, Flatpak does make a lot of things easier to install, but you don't have to explain that. If they ask, "Can I use Discord?", you can tell them, "Yeah, and it's pretty easy to install." They don't need to know the details of how that works under the hood unless they want to know. A major part of the reason people think Linux is hard is well meaning Linux users trying to explain how easy it is in ways that make it sound like you have to understand a ton of things you don't even have to know exist to use it effectively. (I've been guilty of this as well, but I'm getting better with some effort.)
LordRybec@reddit
Linux hasn't been complicated or difficult since the early 2000s. Up until 2010, installing Linux could be a pain, if you had hardware that didn't have good driver support, but even that wasn't super common. As far as general usability once you had it installed, I started with Red Hat back in the early 2000s, and it was generally easier to use than Windows, even without any specialized knowledge or skills. (And note that Yum didn't exist back then, so Red Hat didn't even have an online repository. You got what came on the CD, and for the most part it included everything you might need for every day use. You could manually download and install RPMs (and then deal with dependency hell yourself), but normal people didn't generally need anything that wasn't included on the CD.) In the mid-2000s, I installed SUSE Linux on my in-laws' computer when it was having issues and I couldn't get a Windows key to reinstall XP, and while they knew it was different, they never complained about a single issue, and they had no technical experience or knowledge at all.
I think the idea that Linux is hard comes largely from two things. One is that back in the mid-1990s, when Linux was still quite new, it did require solid technical skills to use, and many people just keep talking about that without realizing that it is nothing like what it was back then. The other one is that Linux users like to promote Linux to other people by telling them about how customizable it is and how they can even modify and compile stuff themselves, and the impression people get is that you must be able to do these things to use it. (Also, we like to describe it with too many caveats. "It even has an office suite, though you'll have to use LibreOffice instead of MS Office, and that other thing you use has an open source alternative as well, etc...". If we weren't constantly trying to answer questions they didn't ask, it would also probably help, and in my experience, most people don't actually care what software they are using, as long as it does the job, until you start making a big deal about it.) I think if we just started promoting Linux as being really easy to install (no manually searching for and downloading drivers like you have to do with Windows) and really easy to use (as you've learned, it is) and didn't tell them about how you can customize it easily, far more people would be interested. And they'd figure out the customizability thing on their own and then be even more impressed.
So overall, I think the way Linux users present Linux to others just creates unnecessary anxiety. If instead we explained that it's easy, without bringing up differences, they would be happy to try it, and when they ask for MS Office, we can install LibreOffice and say, "This is the version for Linux" and they'll be fine. To us "version" might have a very narrow and specific meaning that might make that sound less than honest, but to most people "version" doesn't mean "same software, same company, different release", it means "does the same thing but doesn't necessarily look the same and maybe isn't even made by the same people". And if they ask beforehand, "Does it have Office?" you can say, "Yes, it has an office program", and unless they start asking who made it and such, odds are they don't care and wouldn't know the difference. (It's similar to how most people, when they ask for a "band-aid" they don't mean a "Band-Aid" brand bandage specifically and probably don't even realize there's a distinction.) The problem is that we give them too much information, and most of it is stuff they don't understand. That creates anxiety, which causes fear, which leads them to shut down and reject it.
Happy01Lucky@reddit
"Its not complicated"
--- proceeds to write ten mile long post to explain how not complicated it is.
Lol
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
"--- proceeds to write ten mile long post to explain how not complicated it is."
yes
i had nothing better to do so i decided to yap on reddit for a bit
mooes@reddit
I fall in and out with Linux. Usually something happens like my job asking me to do some stuff to this cad file once every year or so and I decided to just go back to windows.
SnufkinEnjoyer@reddit
I always get confused when people talk about how they had 5000 different issues with the beginner friendly, work out of the box distros and had to switch back to whatever they were using before. I've been dailydriving linux for a few months now (endeavourOS) and I've had ZERO issues, my pc runs just as well as it did on windows. Maybe the closest thing to an issue being the audio not working but I identified the issue in 30 seconds and fixed it in less than 5 following a guide online
KnowZeroX@reddit
KDE distros should come with System Monitor, it should pop up even if you search for Task Manager
There is Tuxedo OS, which is like Mint for KDE, like Mint it is based on ubuntu LTS, but you get newer KDE Plasma 6
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
oh yeah
system monitor
i forgot about that
i like the resources app more though
it looks nicer
KnowZeroX@reddit
The resources app is more basic though, KDE System Monitor is fully customizable
But thats the thing about linux, everyone can use whatever they like.
Dont_tase_me_bruh694@reddit
This is why I disagree with Debian and fedora not including these drivers as options at least. New users will instead resort to a random github post and copy and paste code...
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
https://github.com/devangshekhawat/Fedora-43-Post-Install-Guide
this is not a random github post
its a very well known one
+ you can check the commands it gives, yes its legit
Dont_tase_me_bruh694@reddit
Right but what if a new user didn't find this one and instead found a malicious one? It would be super easy to do. Spread the link around on reddit for example, and tell everyone it's legit...
archontwo@reddit
Congrats, you just demonstrate how far Linux has come in the last decade. And by doing you've taken your first step into a much wider world.
Over time I am sure you will break something but don't look at that as negative, we learn by making mistakes and the beauty about Linux is it allows you to without nagging you excessively about it.
Then you get better, faster, more confident you'll want new experiences, new tasks to do. You will find your imagination getting sparked.
Now you can. * Never streamed music to your phone before.
Now you can. * Never sat down and felt like coding a specific tool to make your life easier.
Now you can, and you may even share it because the ethos and freedom software has leached into you because it is so much at the core of Linux and the Linux experience.
Good luck.
mofomeat@reddit
Obi Wan, is that you?
Anamolica@reddit
PREACH!!! YES!!!
Fedora is literally easier than Windows. People are just damn daft.
glowtape@reddit
Yea, "easy".
Tell that to the people that call Windows, and any Office app, just "Microsoft". Of which there are a lot.
the_abortionat0r@reddit
Which means they wouldn't even notice if you swapped their rig with a windows themed Linux and only office
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
Those people only think windows is easy because it's the only thing they know. If they started out on and only knew linux, they'd think windows was a bloated, buggy mess.
Those people have no knowledge of the wider picture, so they aren't qualified to what counts as easy or not. They're a test of which OS has the largest marketshare and nothing more.
bullwinkle8088@reddit
I have, by not telling them what they were using. Just "click here to do this, click there to do that."
pfmiller0@reddit
Those sorts of people have the least to learn. Just show them the new icon they need to click and they're good to go.
jamieelston@reddit
Probably because the vast amount of people just don’t care!
Minaridev@reddit
Imagine GTA 6 getting delayed because Rockstar would switch all their pc's to Linux and port their engine for it. Linux is not for everyone. Businesses need to start with certain workflow and changing it would be very very costly. Schools could switch but probably won't due to massive amount of time and money it would take.
Only people who can afford switching to Linux are individuals and businesses who plan to do it from the start, not a year later. Windows won't fall, that's for damn sure.
the_abortionat0r@reddit
You literally just made a bunch of shit up and said "Looky here!".
You made about as much sense a the screaming hobo I'm my city.
ThatsALovelyShirt@reddit
They would never because Denuvo doesn't work on Linux.
the_abortionat0r@reddit
The Denuvo does. You are thinking of Denuvo anti tamper which doesn't.
No_Condition_4681@reddit
Fedora Kinoite is amazing... It was my second option after Mint, only because KDE plasma is a bit heavy on resources.
Negative_Round_8813@reddit
Wait until you want to install hardware that doesn't have kernel drivers. Wait until you try to use something like a gaming mouse or keyboard, you've only got basic functionality and none of the programmable keys work.
Meimattu@reddit
I would agree, but fedora 43 update completely broke few parts of my system so I am a bit salty at the moment. Though most of the problems are just nvidia related so, fuck nvidia as the old saying goes.
K2UNI@reddit
I’m new to Linux. In the past week I’ve been reminded why I like it. Windows got stuck on a backup, lost a bunch of files, and told me I wasn’t authorized to try to find them. Then I spent half an hour trying to convince Windows to run an app I had downloaded. So to me, “simple” includes the thing just doing what I tell it.
NoRaspberry8262@reddit
I would just disagree. I have downloaded many distros on a few computers and basically none of them work without spending like a good day fixing all the bugs.
I too use fedora now, but its quite shit. There are a lot of issues and gaming is very complex. Simple things like fixing the touchpad scroll speed take hours and its not possible on some distros.
But its good that everything works for you
TimurHu@reddit
You are absolutely right. It's very simple when it works.
However, when you have some hardware that isn't well supported, it can become very frustrating trying to get it to work. It has improved a lot over the years.
There are still random crashes / hangs when a GPU driver isn't working well. Or when a WiFi driver isn't working well, etc. But those problems are not as frequent as they were in the past.
I'm really glad it's working well for you!
chiefhunnablunts@reddit
it's okay, you can just say nvidia. spent hours last night trying to spin up steam-headless container in a VM on proxmox. nvidia drivers make me want to throw my GPU into a fire.
even linus has some choice words about nvidia.
TimurHu@reddit
Yeah I've had bad experience with NVidia when I had that but it was many years ago.
These days I work on the open source driver stack for AMD GPUs and trust me, we have plenty of GPU hangs as well, unfortunately.
Coffee_Ops@reddit
Now go try to set up a child profile that has limited access to only Chrome or specific websites.
Before you Google it and point to the arch wiki, that suggestion is busted and doesn't actually work (
firefoxfrom terminal bypasses it).Medium-Low-1621@reddit
Linux is a lot less complicated than windows if you know what you are doing. Windows however is supported by a multibillion dollar company and focuses on making applications and software work above all else. Linux isn't the best at this but if you run into a bootloader error on Windows you're cooked and have to do some Hiren's magic, while Linux would be easy since you have full access to the system.
Framed-Photo@reddit
What your describing are like, the bare minimum requirements that anyone should have for using an operating system.
The problems with Linux come when you try do more complex stuff that might not be supported as well.
I've been a big Linux fan for over a decade now, and it's currently in the best place it's ever been, but it's still not there in terms of developer support and it shows.
If it works for your needs though then keep being happy with it, we love to see new Linux users.
Krasi-1545@reddit
Well it depends how deep you want to understand the OS, how things work and the hardware.
You can go reaaaaally deep if you want to 😊
razirazo@reddit
Seasoned Linux users in this sub trying to be welcoming to newbies.
The newbies:
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
did i say something wrong
razirazo@reddit
Wrong place for a fundamental introductory lecture. This sub is not meant for newbies dissertation about their first Linux experience and how great it is. There are other subs for that.The audience of this sub has been informed of those facts 20 years ago. Look at the rest of this sub and see what kind of stuff being discussed here.
sudogaeshi@reddit
nah, there's nothing of substance discussed here anymore. That ship has sailed
GuideUnable5049@reddit
Get outta here
Cr0w_town@reddit
tbh i picked bazzite and fedora just without much thought behind it too
you just like the vibe of the distro and go with it
i had a pretty nice experience too, only struggled with understanding terminal commands
idk man its just an os for a computer once you click around you learn where things are
ive had both windows and mac linux is just a nice middle ground between the two
huskypuppers@reddit
I go back and forth on this.... sometimes I do stuff that I feel like is pretty simply and it costs be hours of time, other times I do something that I feel is complicated AF and it works flawlessly the first time.
redrider65@reddit
Reminds me of that scene in Jurassic Park:
Later There's Running and Screaming
Just joking. Enjoy your new Linux experience.
Entire-Hornet2574@reddit
It's easier for dummies the problem is dummies is thinking they are advanced because stupid things doing in Windows.
Albos_Mum@reddit
I've been saying for around a decade or so that if you can use WinXP, you can use most Linux distros.
MattyGWS@reddit
You picked the right distro for the wrong reasons but it doesn’t matter, you landed on fedora anyway so you got it right. 🤣
BillyBlaze314@reddit
The fundamental difference between windows and Linux, when you strip everything else away, is that windows is based on APIs and Linux is based on files.
It's why Linux is a medley of little servers you can reboot individually, and windows has the API stack and so you need to reboot the whole system to rebuild the stack.
People get used to the API nature of things, you put some setting into the settings box and it stores it somewhere. It means editing files to change configs becomes scary because there's no guide boxes or error catching. Sure a lot of APIs just store their settings in .ini files but that's obscured from the general user. On the upside of files, you can just comment out a line and edit until youre happy and if a problem arises you revert to the commented line, but doing that comes from experience.
Both approaches have their pros and cons. Guis and APIs are great for changing standard settings (e.g. audio outputs) but less good when you need to do more bespoke configs. Files are great for tinkering but not everyone likes tinkering and would rather pick the best option from a list even if it's not exactly right.
MVanderloo@reddit
you’re telling us
Shot_Duck_195@reddit (OP)
hi
tenmatei@reddit
Man, recently my wife added some space to poxmox when I was on delegations. A few tips through the phone and it was running again.