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Inspiration of Islam

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Inspiration of Islam

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LitmusPitmus@reddit

Did Philosophy of Islam in university and...anon is onto something here.
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The_Burning_Face@reddit

Anon is dead on the money. Islam came about as a rival philosophy to Judaism because one "child marrier" wanted to be the boss instead of the Jews. So much of the Quran is simply Judaism without Jews. That's why it borrowed so hard from other texts. It was basically "i'mma be the boss, things will be better but basically the same but without Jews" Mohammed just hated Jews.
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Ammaz1234@reddit

He married one...........
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Pickles112358@reddit

Considering he raped little girls I have a hunch the marriage was not consentual
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Ammaz1234@reddit

Given that you know nothing about his marriage to Ayesha you should stfu. She lived many many years after his passing and never once spoke ill of him. None of his wives did. Read a book or zip it hasbara
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Pickles112358@reddit

Jesus pedo apologia is strong with you. Only other pedos are pedo apologists, but that would male sense statistically if i guessed your religion correctly
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kingofbladder@reddit

>be me >be racist >marry someone from 'inferior races' >many such cases
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blacktiger226@reddit

Of course Anon is into something. It is a core belief of Islam that the message of God is one and the same. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all other prophets and messengers all preached the exact same message. Every time people corrupt God's message, he sends the next messenger to restore the religion to its original pure state. It is literally spelled out in the Quran: Say [O Muhammad], "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner." And Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful. And many many others
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halpfulhinderance@reddit

Zoroastrianism though. That’s a Persian thing and would’ve been considered pagan. But both Islam and Christianity pulled inspiration from it to have a massive spiritual battle going on between Hell and Heaven, with the souls of all mankind in the balance. I don’t think the character of Satan was even close to the modern interpretation before that. But anyways, anon’s point is that all this shit sounds fake the farther back you look and the more you become aware how much the story has warped compared to its roots. Yahweh was a storm/war god before he became Jehovah, what would have been considered the patron deity of some random fuck off tribe in the desert. The only reason he spread as far as he did was because the Jewish diaspora had a very strong oral tradition, and were constantly fleeing persecution from some place to another. And then Christianity and Islam happened and spread it to everyone else.
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_sephylon_@reddit

No. Zoroastrians are considered people of the book, under the name Al-Majus ( the magi ). So just like Christianity and Judaism it's corrupted islam from their perspective
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Ammordad@reddit

It's complicated. There is an issue of lineage where in Abrahamic beliefs all prophets are considered to have been from the same dynasty and of same lineage, which in case of Zoroaster, would have been impossible. There is also the issue of whether or not Quran/Muhammad understood what the Zoroastrianism book, Avesta really was? For one thing the only book of Avesta associated with Zoraster(Gathas) and containing his "revelations" doesn't actually contain any revelations in an Abrahamic sense. It's a one way conversation between Zoraster and god, where Zoraster explores theology, spirituality, and ethics through self-answering questions. It's much more "deistic" in nature and some modern Zoroastrians outright consider the rational discovery of theology to have been his "miracle". And there is also the issue of Avesta just not really containing many similar stories to Bible or Quran. There are few inspirations from Iranian mythology in Bible and Quran, but that's about it really. The prospective of Islam is someone misplaced in grand scheme of things, which i suppose may have been for the best, considering how devastating the Islamic conquests in Iran would have been if Muslims didn't consider Zorastrians people of the book.
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NewSchoolBoxer@reddit

It's not complicated. Zoroastrians were accepted as People of the Book. That's all that had to be decided. Hindus in India were not accepted and Muslim conquest India is probably the bloodiest story in history.
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chota_pundit@reddit

>prophets are considered to have been from the same dynasty and of same lineage Never heard of this being a thing
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Superkritisk@reddit

I sometimes wonder if future humans will forget that Marvel superheroes were cartoons and start worshiping them as Gods, arguing around the campfire who is the most powerful deity, Superman or Captain Marvel.
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blacktiger226@reddit

You are looking at it from a 19th century Darwininan point of view that assumes that monotheism is an evolutionary step that came after paganism. The Islamic/Biblical point of view is the opposite; it sees paganism as a devolution of monotheism. Yahweh was worshipped as the one almighty creator God that is above the heaven and this got corrupted and devolved until people started seeing him as a storm/war god. Then Moses was sent to restore the original faith and teach people that Yahweh is just a name of the one almighty creator God again. Yahweh, Jehovah, El, Allah, Ahura Mazda are all different names for the same entity.
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dazednconfused555@reddit

I'm glad you think you have knowledge. It must bring you confidence.
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gr1mm5d0tt1@reddit

Have you ever watched ‘the epileptic prophet’s
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ricknightwood13@reddit

It is as if muslims believe that their god sent many prophets before Muhammed whose messages got corrupted leading to the creation of said religions. Islam incorporates practices from all of those religions as a part of its design. You just noticed what's common knowledge to muslims.
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g6c_@reddit

So god is incompetent?
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ricknightwood13@reddit

God meant for just the final message to be preserved, while the other messages last as long as he wanted according to the Qur'an.
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Eleventeen-@reddit

That is quite convenient for the guy giving the last message but I see nothing wrong with that logic.
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ricknightwood13@reddit

Last guy didn't use it to claim he's the god king of the whole world and instead continued living a modest life between him and himself, can't see how he wouldn't do that after claiming that message.
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Pickles112358@reddit

Modest life: raping kids
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NegativeMammoth2137@reddit

I remember reading somewhere that apparently in the Middle Ages a lot of European Christian scholars initially considered Islam as a heretical Christian sect rather than a new religion. Even in the Divine Comedy which was written in 1321 Muhammad is only described as a "schismatic" and "heresiarch" but not as a founder of new religion the way Jews would talk about Jesus. Islam only became generally perceived as a separate religions centuries after that
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Dontgersococky@reddit

The wars started because Muslims tried to conquer Spain, idk if Christians needed even more motivation
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Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

To conquer Spain they had to get through the entirety of (Christian) north Africa, I can assure you it started a lot earlier than 711. The Byzantines didn't fully understand wtf the big M was going on about for a fair bit of time, but they had been fighting since the 630s, pretty much the moment after the Caliphate got out of the Middle East.
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ibench-1pounds@reddit

How is Christianity not the same lol. Wasn’t most of the New Testament written after Jesus’s death? I think we just need to culturally realize that believing in Christianity is the same as believing in Islam is the same as believing is Judaism is the same as believing in Greek Gods. No need to make fun or shame someone for their beliefs, but like the (my religion makes more sense than yours) sentiment is ludicrous.
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

Idk why people think this is an argument. Like I'm Muslim and it's so obvious. Like if Islam came around and was completely different from the previous religions. Like had zero connections whatsoever to stories, prophets and morals. Christian apologists would be like "How can Islam be from the same God when it's so alien to our tradition?" Islam is a continuation and correction of the previous religions. We believe God sent down the scrolls of Abraham, The Torah, The Psalms, the Gospel and the Quran. These books are all coming from the same source.
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INCUMBENTLAWYER@reddit

Do we have any evidence of the uncorrupted Torah, Psalms, and Gospel/Injeel?
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

The fact that there is a corrupted version which most adherents to the faith attest to. Is proof that there is an uncorrupted version.
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INCUMBENTLAWYER@reddit

What?
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

The fact that there is a corrupted version which most adherents to the faith attest to. Is proof that there is an uncorrupted version.
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INCUMBENTLAWYER@reddit

How is that proof? We have manuscripts of the "corrupted" Gospel dating back to the late 1st century, and even older ones from the Tanakh in the form of the dead sea scroll
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

There are no manuscripts of the Gospel in the first century. There are no manuscripts in the second. There are no manuscripts in the third. The earliest manuscript of the new testament you have is in the fourth century in Greek, Codex Synaticus. A language that Jesus didn't speak. Also the authors of which are all anonymous. The Dead Sea Scrolls is more than a thousand years removed from Moses. And even then, most jews reject it because it originates from a heretecial sect of Jews. Another famous example is the fact that there are stories and verses in our modern bible that are not even in the earliest manuscripts. Did you know that the story of the adulterous woman is a fabrication? It's not in any of the oldest manuscripts and is only found in later manuscripts hundreds of years later.
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INCUMBENTLAWYER@reddit

Rylands Library Papyrus P52 is a roughly postcard sized fragmant of the Gospel of John that is dated to around the early to mid first century AD. The Dead Sea Scrolls aren't necessarily rejected, they just contain a lot of apocrypha. Regardless, you still have no proof of the positive claim of there being an original uncorrupted Gospel/Torah. The Quran is 600 and 1800 years removed from those times resepectively, what makes you think we should trust it over the far more closely dated books?
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

>Be me, God 4000 years ago, have to pick a prophet to send my holy instructions to >"Those Mesopotamians seem pretty advanced for this time, surely I'll find someone here that can spread and preserve my message well" >"Ah whatever, this rancher Abraham in the middle of nowhere will do just as fine" >Take a nap for 2000 years, wake up only to see that my message not only barely even spread across the world, it also got completely corrupted in a millenia long game of telephone >"I guess I'll have to pick a new prophet, maybe a roman scholar or philosopher this time? Nah, this carpenter in a backwater province seems like a good kid." >Come back 600 years later and that Jesus guy fucked up as well, even all the writings written and documented by his peers were somehow immediately corrupted >"Alright this last prophet has to work out for sure this time, and I got just the guy: an illiterate merchant living so far away from 90% of my followers that any of his proclamations won't even reach them in their lifetimes." >He somehow manages to perfectly preserve my teachings for the next 1400 years >All the different subgroups of my followers kill each other for centuries as I will never bother to clear up any misconceptions between them ???
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

1. You're assuming that every single prophet's purpose was to become a global religion. The only prophet who's message was meant to be global was Muhammad pbuh's. Abraham was only a prophet for his time and area. Same with Moses, Noah and all the others. 2. There were prophets sent to every single nation and society throughout all of human history. There were Chinese prophets sent to Chinese societies. There were Mexican prophets sent to Mexican societies. There were European prophets all sent to Europeans. All saying the same message "Worship One God Alone"
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

Please give me any sources for your countless independent chinese and mexican muslim prophets who popped up all throughout history, otherwise you're just making up claims
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There's no historical records of Abraham ever existing. We know of his existence through revelation. Likewise with the other prophets.
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

So you see the Quran is right because... the Quran told me so. Enjoy following the silly rules of your magic book for the rest of your life I guess
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

I'm not sure why you suddenly became rude when in our entire discussion I was nothing but cordial with you. If you wish to have a discussion I'll have one with you. But not while you're calling my religion silly.
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

If you waste my time with claims you can't back up I won't bother with staying cordial or respecting your religion. But I'm not surprised this went over your head, as you apparently don't need proof to form your world view.
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Jellylegs_19@reddit

"Waste my time" while on Reddit.
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Eleventeen-@reddit

Be me, God 200 years ago, the last prophets words did eventually get corrupted, “I guess I’ll pick a 14 year old kid from America to write about Jewish South Americans with metallurgy skills that will never be archaeologically verified” he manages to perfectly preserve my words and even manages to have 4 times as many wives as the last one.
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Eleventeen-@reddit

Be me, God 200 years ago, the last prophets words did eventually get corrupted, “I guess I’ll pick a 14 year old kid from America to write about Jewish South Americans with metallurgy skills that will never be archaeologically verified” he manages to perfectly preserve my words and even manages to have 4 times as many wives as the last one.
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drdirektorraizen@reddit

what does it correct bro
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kratoswleed@reddit

Well, the books were plagiarized over time. Plus the teachings of the Bible and the Torah were basic stuff but after the prophets passed away, they've been plagiarized. The Quran however can never has such a problem for a simple yet complicated reason. Arabic is so hard as a language that it's impossible to replicate a single verse of the Quran. It's considered a masterpiece in terms of stringing words, and it's impossible to replicate the literacy of any verse. God even challenges humanity to make a single verse that even sounds like it and has the same meaning as a verse from the Quran, and to this day, no one was able to replicate a single verse.
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

So by your logic, if I were to present an arabic Quran that has 100 randomly corrupted verses in it to any arab speaking muslim, they would be able to tell them apart without fail? I don't believe that and neither do you. Also please show any sources of how the Torah or Bible had their originally muslim contents be changed over time.
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kratoswleed@reddit

>So by your logic, if I were to present an arabic Quran that has 100 randomly corrupted verses in it to any arab speaking muslim, they would be able to tell them apart without fail? I don't believe that and neither do you. Of course. And yes, everyone believes that and could tell it apart, every native Arabic speaker who has some degree of knowledge of their own language. If you can't speak Arabic perfectly, then you don't have the right to say such a thing. I'm Arabic myself lol. >Also please show any sources of how the Torah or Bible had their originally muslim contents be changed over time. https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/t6KtA2MzrM I should also add how in the middle ages, when the Bible was only written in Latin and only higher ups were allowed to interpret it, the churches lied to the people saying that they should give money to buy plots of land in Heaven saying "trust me bro, that's what the Bible says"
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Normal-Reference-834@reddit

I wish we had this discussion in person, because if I knew for certain you wouldn't be able to doublecheck with the Quran I would send some money to a muslim charity if you could tell apart 5 real Quran verses from 5 Chatgpt generated ones. Feel free to repeat the experiment yourself however if you wanna test your faith. So your source for the second claim is a reddit comment (terrible quality) which doesn't even mention Islam and whos author further down in the thread even says calling the Bible "corrupted" is misguided. Surely it took you stronger arguments to convince you of this idea, right? And yes, the medieval catholic church and its had immense abuses of their authority, we don't disagree on that. I've even heard of a catholic priest who told his followers he received divine revelation that it was Gods plan for his adopted son and wife to divorce and him to marry her instead.
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kratoswleed@reddit

>I wish we had this discussion in person, because if I knew for certain you wouldn't be able to doublecheck with the Quran I would send some money to a muslim charity if you could tell apart 5 real Quran verses from 5 Chatgpt generated ones. Feel free to repeat the experiment yourself however if you wanna test your faith. I mean, same actually. I'm a translator myself and have studied my three languages extensively. Feel free to believe what you wrote man. >So your source for the second claim is a reddit comment (terrible quality) which doesn't even mention Islam and whos author further down in the thread even says calling the Bible "corrupted" is misguided. Surely it took you stronger arguments to convince you of this idea, right? Well, it's a reddit comment linking a community that discusses such things extensively. It was pretty clear lmao. I just did a quick Google search and found this comment.
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skull_fucker79@reddit

i hear this a lot but i never understood what would be considered a "single verse that sounds like it", or what god challenges humans to replicate about quran. something as "poetic"? something as "meaningful"? those things are all subjective. and please dont tell me about the numerology bullshit. also, while quran may have been successful at being preserved (i have never seen anyone that argues against that), there are so many interpretations of every verse, that it may as well have been changed. people who help the poor and people who blow airports both reference the same book. what's the point of preserving the book and the prophet's teachings to the letter if it can be interpreted multiple ways anyway? "so that the book and the teachings can be relevant as time progresses" is not convincing enough for me
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kratoswleed@reddit

>something as "poetic"? something as "meaningful"? those things are all subjective. Not in Arabic. And also how is it subjective when some verses rhyme? Would you consider Eminem's rhyming "subjective"? Of course not. >there are so many interpretations of every verse, that it may as well have been changed. people who help the poor and people who blow airports both reference the same book. what's the point of preserving the book and the prophet's teachings to the letter if it can be interpreted multiple ways anyway? "so that the book and the teachings can be relevant as time progresses" is not convincing enough for me That's wrong. The Quran has one clear interpretation that every scholar has agreed upon. Those terrorists you're talking about are only misinterpreting the verses and are acting on their own. They have no relation to Islam.
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skull_fucker79@reddit

>Not in Arabic. And also how is it subjective when some verses rhyme? Would you consider Eminem's rhyming "subjective"? Of course not. so is it that it rhymes? has eminem then replicated quran successfully? or is it that it rhymes as beautifully? if that's the case yeah, that's subjective. i dont think this is the point you're making but that's what i understood. >That's wrong. The Quran has one clear interpretation that every scholar has agreed upon. but there are different schools that disagree upon things. and different cultures apply islam differently as well. what is ok to eat and what is not, how to pray, "what is meant by this verse?" sort of discussions, discussions on the history of islam and the events that take place in quran ("did this really happen or is it a metaphor" sort of discussions), discussions on how literally quran is meant to be taken, how quran applies to modern ideas (whether democracy is applicable to a muslim population, whether or not to believe in evolution) and many such questions that depending on who you ask, you may get very different answers. so there are many questions that cant be answered by simply looking at quran or what prophet Muhammad has said. Instead of straight answers, you will have interpretations of scholars that may vary. the terrorist example was the most extreme example of an "interpretation" i could find, thats why i gave it. my point is that if quran is divine, i would expect it to be immune to misinterpretations. A book open enough that what it writes can be relevant no matter the era, and precise enough that even tho interpretations may vary it still can't really be misinterpreted (by this i mean used as an excuse for wrongdoings). Now that i would believe is irreplicable and divine. But quran falls short on that i may have written more than necessary, sorry if thats the case and thank you for your time if you deicde to reply. i enjoy discussing religion but i dont get to discuss it with people around me, since it can be a pretty sensitive topic for some.
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kratoswleed@reddit

>so is it that it rhymes? has eminem then replicated quran successfully? or is it that it rhymes as beautifully? if that's the case yeah, that's subjective. i dont think this is the point you're making but that's what i understood. Excuse me if I actually meant this point. I didn't mean it at all. The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad by God and he didn't know how to read and write. The tribe he lived in at the time (or you could say arabs in general) were at the peak of Arabian artistic prose and poem writing. Kind of like the renaissance. When Prophet Muhammad said some verses to his people, they all agreed that his words didn't come from any human. Said people also fought him, so they were his enemies. I could go on about how tough writing prose with artistic meaning is in Arabic, but to give you a clue, in Arabic we have something called Harakat, these are Damma, Fatha, Kasra, and Sukon. A single word could have many, many meanings depending on the Haraka. https://youtube.com/shorts/wH2dMUCq9uc?si=Yiq3JSPJpkKVuZEK This is just one of the many things in the language. the word من can also be interpreted in three ways depending on the Harakah at first. In short, no one was able to bring anything like it. >but there are different schools that disagree upon things. and different cultures apply islam differently as well. what is ok to eat and what is not, how to pray The Sunna (the life of the prophet) Is there. The Hadiths are also very clear. There are people who mistake some Hadiths to be said by the prophet when in fact, they weren't. For example there's a saying that says (Fortune tellers lie even if they tell the truth) and people thought it was a Hadith, when in fact it wasn't. >discussions on the history of islam and the events that take place in quran ("did this really happen or is it a metaphor" sort of discussions), Again, The Quran is clear. People sometimes wonder of the people of old (like prophet Noah, or the people of Aad) really existed because there's no archeological evidence that suggests that. Prophet Muhammed also said that Adam was actually 50 feet tall. For such things, we don't really know since the earth is millions of years ago, and God himself said in the Quran that humanity are the heirs of earth. Meaning some life lived before us. >you may get very different answers. so there are many questions that cant be answered by simply looking at quran or what prophet Muhammad has said. I think you mean that Hanafi or the Shafii or the Malaki teachings. Those are not the Prophet himself, they were simply big Sheiks who interpreted the Hadiths themselves. The Sunna is there for everyone to read. >i could find, thats why i gave it. my point is that if quran is divine, i would expect it to be immune to misinterpretations. A book open enough that what it writes can be relevant no matter the era, and precise enough that even tho interpretations may vary it still can't really be misinterpreted (by this i mean used as an excuse for wrongdoings). Now that i would believe is irreplicable and divine. But quran falls short on that There's only one true interpretation of the Quran. The Hadiths were the only things that might come to question because of who memorized something the Prophet said because some people aren't trustworthy. That's not to say the Hadiths aren't relevant, but some people said some stuff saying the prophet said it, when that wasn't the case. But the Quran's message is one. The Hadiths are also one. >may have written more than necessary, sorry if thats the case and thank you for your time if you deicde to reply. i enjoy discussing religion but i dont get to discuss it with people around me, since it can be a pretty sensitive topic for some Don't worry about it, my friend. But really, I'm just a simple Muslim who reads the Quran and takes the interpretation from the Sheiks and scholars. On reddit, you'll rarely find someone who can actually give you answers to your questions. I suggest you look up Dr. Zakir Naik and listen to some of his lectures. That man is responsible for converting many people to Islam and was chased away by his country. I hope you find him to be useful.
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drdirektorraizen@reddit

i feel sorry that you believe the classic islam popaganda
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kratoswleed@reddit

I'm sorry that you don't believe in Islam lmao. I'm Arabic myself, and I know how hard the language is. I'm a native speaker yet true Arabic is extremely hard to master. You tried to disprove what the original commenter said, I replied back. If your only argument against this is saying "propaganda" then believe whatever you want lmao. I think I forgot to mention that back in the era of the Prophet, Arabs were all masters of Arabian prose. Yet no one could replicate it. Do your own research. It's out there.
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Friedrichs_Simp@reddit

Well he did protect them, by sending more prophets whenever a scripture or religion of his was corrupted and they would simply either restore it or bring a new scripture (this is rarer). He stopped sending prophets, so now it’s just preserved rather than corrected after the perversion happens.
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Reading_username@reddit

>by sending more prophets whenever a scripture or religion was corrupted and they would simply either restore it or bring a new scripture So... You should be Mormon then. Because this is literally what they teach. If you really believe that, then go find some missionaries. 
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ammar96@reddit

I mean, isn’t it supposed to be other way around, considering Islam predates Mormon for more than thousand of years?
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Eleventeen-@reddit

By that logic it would be the other way around considering that Christianity predates Islam by hundreds of years. The point is that if we believe that god sends new messengers down roughly every 700 years or so every time the previous messengers words were corrupted, then what the Mormons teach that Joseph smith was the new messenger sent to correct the since corrupted previous religions makes just as much sense. It is truly exactly what Mormons teach and from that perspective it almost makes sense, but all you have to do is look at Joseph smiths personal life to know that he used all this power god gave him to marry a bunch of women and children. I wonder if any other of these other prophets we’ve been discussing did the exact same thing as Joseph smith?
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Friedrichs_Simp@reddit

Islam doesn’t teach that messengers were sent down every 700 years or so. There’s no fixed cycle of revelation. What it does teach is that prophethood had already ended, making it obviously incompatible with mormonism. A serious examination for the history of Islam and Muhammad (pbuh) reveals that he did not marry for the sexual reasons, he did not marry the most beautiful or the youngest (as Joseph Smith did over and over if you look through his list of **49** wives) even though he could have done so as he became the ruler of all Muslims and had good relationships with neighboring countries as you see in the case of the ruler of Egypt and his gift to Muhammad (pbuh). The first marriage of the Prophet (pbuh) took place when he was 25 years of age and he married Khadija (ra) who was twice widowed, and was 40 years old. If the Prophet (pbuh) was hyper-sexual, why would he wait until marriage, and then marry a woman who was 15 years older than him and already twice widowed? When Khadija (ra) was alive, he never took a second wife. Khadija (ra) died when the Prophet (pbuh) was 50 years age and only after this, did he marry the others. If he married eleven wives for sexual reasons, he should have had multiple wives during his youth(as joseph smith did). Contrary to this, history tells us that all his marriages with his remaining ten wives took place when he was between the age of 53 and 59 years. All his wives were between the ages of 36 and 50 years old except for two of them. It would’ve been easy to choose younger girls to marry (as joseph smith did). It’s also ironic that people try to discredit prophets by reducing their wives to nothing more than sex objects. The wives of the Prophet aren’t NPCs, they’re some of the most important scholars and preservers of the religion. Aisha trained major jurists, led armies, and taught generations of scholars. She kept meticulous records of the prophet’s life and teachings and is a major part of the reason why we have such detailed records of his lifestyle. Hafsah was entrusted with the preservation of the Qur’an. Reducing them to “he married a bunch of women” really says more about how one views women than the religion. Only two of his marriages, one with Khadijah and one with Ayesha, were contracted normally. All his other marriages were based on various other considerations. I could expand on that if you’d like me to. That’s really what I’m here for. I’m more interested in clearing things up than arguing.
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Friedrichs_Simp@reddit

Sharing one concept doesn’t collapse all other theological differences. Otherwise you could say Christians should just be Muslim since Islam also teaches that Jesus was the messiah. So if they really believe that, they should turn to Islam.
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jonathanoldstyle@reddit

Like. Like. Like. I am a scholar.
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Nervous-Basis-1707@reddit

Islam did take many ideas from other religions in the Middle East at the time. Zoroastrianism, Judaism, and Christianity did have a large role in influencing early Islamic traditions and laws. Islamic rules and customs weren’t really agreed upon in the first decades/centuries of Islam. Recent Jewish and Christian converts (especially the educated ones interested in jurisprudence) contributed heavily to early Islam. But it’s unlikely that Mohammad was copy-pasting these while writing the Quran. Many of these ideas came after the Islamic conquests and his death
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BattleGrown@reddit

Mohammed didn't write anything, he just spoke. People took notes but it was the 3rd caliph who made it into a book.
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ibench-1pounds@reddit

How is Christianity not the same lol. Wasn’t most of the New Testament written after Jesus’s death? I think we just need to culturally realize that believing in Christianity is the same as believing in Islam is the same as believing is Judaism is the same as believing in Greek Gods. No need to make fun or shame someone for their beliefs, but like the (my religion makes more sense than yours) sentiment is ludicrous.
View on Reddit #71303157

drdirektorraizen@reddit

the new testament was written before, during and after jesus life
View on Reddit #71309727

Reading_username@reddit

>before Lol
View on Reddit #71312841

Friedrichs_Simp@reddit

The new testament is meant to be witness accounts of what Jesus did in his life so they definitely could not have been written prior to him being born because that’s not what the point of the NT is
View on Reddit #71310236

TBARb_D_D@reddit

People forget that Muhammed was a trader, of course he had heard a lot from Christian Arabs, Judeans who live around Medina, other pagans and Zoroastrians. The key word is “heard”, he was not literate and didn’t spend years studying holy texts. Not surprising he got stuff wrong(like saying that the difference between Christians and Jews is that first believe that Christ is son of god when second that (I don’t remember name) is son of god)
View on Reddit #71302854

ElonTaco@reddit

He was also a pedophile
View on Reddit #71403779

jayeddy99@reddit

I just saw the movie The carpenters Son which is based on this Gospel . I thought it was pretty good based on how people would react to Jesus in that moment instead of thousands of years of hearing his full story . Also a teenager with god like powers and hormones would obviously act out.
View on Reddit #71389644

MutualBearman@reddit

This is true of pretty much every faith - Christianity is a riff on Judaism, Rabbinic Judaism is an evolution of Israelite Paganism, Buddhism is an evolution of Indian Vedic philosophies. No need to be a weird prick about it.
View on Reddit #71302290

Naive_Drive@reddit

Nah man *my* religion was invented by God whole cloth. It's *every other* religion that's derivative.
View on Reddit #71363615

WeebMachina@reddit

Yeah but none of those religions are Muslims so op is fine with that
View on Reddit #71313961

Eleventeen-@reddit

The fact is religions are easier to disprove and point out inconsistencies of the newer they are. The Mormon faith is extremely easy to disprove, Islam is relatively easy, Christianity is a little tougher, and Judaism started so long ago that we don’t have many non Jewish accounts of the start of the religion. For example the Islamic view on Jesus is that he was a human prophet, not divine, and any time he claimed divinity was incorrectly transcribed or fraud. However they also believe that he was not crucified however he was raised alive straight to heaven. They believe that he will return down from heaven before the day of judgement and defeat the antichrist, uniting all under Islam, then he will rule justly over the earth before dying a natural death. I don’t know about you but that list of actions sounds pretty divine to me, name another figure in the Bible or Quran who flies up to heaven at will and will return to kill the antichrist and rule earth as its god emperor. In fact he only has 5 or 6 direct quotes in the Quran, almost all of which where he directly affirms the various Islamic views on him which seems questionable at the least. Now I don’t speak Arabic and I’m not professionally educated on any of this so maybe I misunderstood the original wordings but I’m open for someone to explain to me how Jesus can simultaneously be just some guy and also a clearly all powerful force of Gods will.
View on Reddit #71321359

skull_fucker79@reddit

i dont know much about how Christians think of god and jesus but in islam, to be a god is to be able to create/have created everything. so jesus wouldnt necessarily have to be all powerful to do those things, a muslim's way of thinking about it would be "the god who created jesus can also give him the power to do those things"
View on Reddit #71362654

Additional_Sink7879@reddit

As I understand it its God bringing him up to the heavens and not Jesus himself choosing to go up
View on Reddit #71348986

make_reddit_great@reddit

Indeed! The term is syncretism. Christianity is a mix of Judaism and Greek philosophy.
View on Reddit #71309245

Davey_boy_777@reddit

Which Greek did Jesus steal His teaching from?
View on Reddit #71312231

make_reddit_great@reddit

Not Jesus, St Paul
View on Reddit #71314682

Davey_boy_777@reddit

Which teachings did he steal from Greeks?
View on Reddit #71319665

make_reddit_great@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_ancient_Greek_philosophy
View on Reddit #71320204

Davey_boy_777@reddit

Specifically, tell me a Christian doctrine derived from Greek philosophy.
View on Reddit #71326649

DryConfidence77@reddit

Neo Platonism
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Ironborn137@reddit

Bro. Just accept it. Christianity isn’t real. lol
View on Reddit #71329964

NegativeMammoth2137@reddit

Have you read the Wikipedia article the previous guy just linked? It literally has several examples of exactly that
View on Reddit #71329014

make_reddit_great@reddit

No
View on Reddit #71327126

Davey_boy_777@reddit

Yeah, that figures.
View on Reddit #71328224

BanzaiKen@reddit

Per Gospel of Thomas and Celsus" (a spy for the Rome tasked with learning about what the hell happened to cause a cult to form around Yeshua's execution) research notes as described by Origen (the guy who yay and nayed certain books from being included in the Apocrypha) most likely from the Magician's Cult in Cairo, where he spent much of his youth after his biological father Centurion Pantera of Sidon gave his mother Mary alimony to get Yeshua into a school before he was transferred out of the region. It's also probably where he was taught the "magic" of pulling various objects from robes, turning water into "wine" using Greek technology (Hashsassins and Pythagorean cups) and raising various things from the dead, a pretty notorious trick of the school.
View on Reddit #71315777

Davey_boy_777@reddit

Lol never thought I'd hear pharisee propaganda in 2025 but reddit never ceases to amaze me.
View on Reddit #71319732

BanzaiKen@reddit

Cope and sneed.
View on Reddit #71334452

The_PhilosopherKing@reddit

Sorry bucko, the ancient Canaanite religion was the original and everything else is a poor riff of it. Praise be to El and Asherah.
View on Reddit #71342646

hollowglaive@reddit

Yes and all of them riff on the sun is god.
View on Reddit #71335477

NegativeMammoth2137@reddit

There’s a difference though. Christianity is based on Judaism and considers The Hebrew Bible/The Old Testament a part of their canon, but The New Testament is entirely original and is only seen as a continuation of the OT. On the other hand the life of Muhammad makes up a strikingly small part of the Quran, with most of the scripture just being retellings of stories from the Bible (yes, also including the life of Jesus Christ who is considered a major prophet in Islam)
View on Reddit #71328933

Mr_Evanescent@reddit

“Christianity is a riff on Judaism” Yeah if a ‘riff’ on Judaism is “I’ve come to fulfill the prophecies of Judaism” Critical thinking on Reddit is at an all time low
View on Reddit #71302418

NeogeneRiot@reddit

Your trying to make a theological argument not a historical one. I get calling it a "riff" is a bit much and might be offensive to people who believe Jesus came down and actually fulfilled miracles/prophecies. But you know Jesus was literally a Jew right? Christianity wouldn't have existed without Judaism and they ***objectively*** borrowed many ideas from it. This is something called "religious syncretism" which is very well documented in all major world religions including Christianity. Although nobody within a religion would ever admit their own religion is syncretic, despite the fact it very much is.
View on Reddit #71303567

Thin_General_8594@reddit

You're on Reddit, people love to discredit and insult religion here
View on Reddit #71304190

gillababe@reddit

Everywhere outside of church does that
View on Reddit #71305156

Thin_General_8594@reddit

Outside of church according to you ![gif](giphy|YRHEHetDABKdecTztp|downsized)
View on Reddit #71305933

gillababe@reddit

I don't know what this shit is
View on Reddit #71306001

DerRommelndeErwin@reddit

It's you
View on Reddit #71313044

Battle_Axe_Jax@reddit

I’m sure you thought this was profound
View on Reddit #71309839

095805@reddit

Yea that’s definitely a riff. Joeseph Smith also supposedly claimed to be fulfilling Christian prophecy as well.
View on Reddit #71303484

Mr_Evanescent@reddit

Me when I don’t know what riffing is lmao
View on Reddit #71304573

095805@reddit

Yes. This is you not knowing what riffing is. Literally every religion does this (Unless it’s MY religion, then it was perfect from the start and had no influence from any of those sinners.)
View on Reddit #71304669

Q_dawgg@reddit

Peak theological debate
View on Reddit #71309578

CaptianCanuck@reddit

And then didn’t fulfill the Jewish prophecies so not only is it a riff it’s a bad one at that
View on Reddit #71303524

Mr_Evanescent@reddit

More regarded than the usual greentext poster, impressive
View on Reddit #71304505

-tehnik@reddit

I don't see why this would be a big problem for them. Also the infancy gospel isn't gnostic?
View on Reddit #71357008

MarsasGRG@reddit

No way, religions are based on other earlier religions??? WOW!
View on Reddit #71350440

Bratizcka@reddit

Anon thinks an illitarate arabian man living in the middle of dessert suddenly happened to know all of this and created islam.
View on Reddit #71310646

Ammaz1234@reddit

fr, people do one google search and suddenly become islamic scholars
View on Reddit #71347742

TyphoonOfEast@reddit

I am ex Muslim and he is 110% right
View on Reddit #71303900

Ammaz1234@reddit

shut up pajeet. "OH IM EXMUSLIM" go back to scamming people
View on Reddit #71347732

PlanktonWeed@reddit

As a fellow black men, I agree
View on Reddit #71308282

Bubatz_Bruder@reddit

Yeah, you could make these arguments on nearly every religion.
View on Reddit #71304882

Laxhoop2525@reddit

Islam and Mormonism are both Christian cults that managed to not collapse after the death of their founders.
View on Reddit #71345015

Dialectic-Compiler@reddit

It's so weird the way that I see Christians* throw around heresy like it's an intrinsically damning critique of a contravening idea. The concept can be summed up as an idea disputing a point of doctrine. Why again are we supposed to consider disagreement to be proof of an idea's invalidity, if the validity of the idea is it the question? *It is by no means just Christian, or even just religious people that do this.
View on Reddit #71341995

AnonymousZiZ@reddit

And his point is? That's what Islam is supposed to be. Muslims believe that God sent messengers who tought people religion including Judaism, the people then proceeded to corrupt the religion over time, adding things and taking stuff out, so he kept sending messengers and prophets many of whom were killed by the people they were sent to, he then sent Jesus the messiah (but not the son of god) who they also tried to kill. His message was also corrupted over time. Finally God sent prophet Mohammed with Islam, which they believe has the same core beliefs as the previous Abrahamic religions before they were corrupted. That's one reason why Muslims are incredibly adamant about refusing to compromise when it comes to changing anything about their religion. They are afraid it will become corrupted like the previous religions. TLDR, Islam is supposed to be like a remaster or a director's cut, of Christianity and Judaism some stuff has to carry over.
View on Reddit #71304559

pepenomics@reddit

Interesting! Thanks for pointing it out why they're adamant to the old ways, puts it into perspective as to why they still follow many rules which seem outdated for today. Any idea what's their reasoning why a new prophet hasn't come?
View on Reddit #71315803

AnonymousZiZ@reddit

According to Islam Prophet Mohammed is the "Seal of the Prophets" or the last prophet with no NEW prophets coming after him (Muslims do believe in the second coming of Jesus, so there will be a prophet again, just not a new one)
View on Reddit #71316079

pepenomics@reddit

Understood! So reincarnation is possible according to islam? Or it's something reserved only for god-like beings/angels/prophets?
View on Reddit #71341250

AnonymousZiZ@reddit

No, not unless you consider everyone being resurrected on the day of judgment. Even Jesus technically doesn't get reincarnated in Islam, he won't be reborn, he will just descend back to earth.
View on Reddit #71341739

Ospreysboyo@reddit

Guys, can all religions just get together and agree, you are all just gullible morons.
View on Reddit #71330210

Ironborn137@reddit

Wait till OP finds out this is all religions. They are all just formations of shit people already did in the past.
View on Reddit #71329916

CapMcCloud@reddit

OP discovers syncretism
View on Reddit #71321966

clownwithtentacles@reddit

As opposed to Christianity, which is completely original with no ties to any previous religions & real
View on Reddit #71316053

Galgan3@reddit

Like Christianity or Judaism is any different. It's the same three religions wearing a different wig. Judaism copied some ancient Babylonian(?) religion, Christianity copied Judaism,(old testament) and Islam copied em both.
View on Reddit #71302218

TearOpenTheVault@reddit

> Judaism copied ancient Babylonian religion Caanan/Levantine religion. Yaweh was a war and storm/weather God and the Patron god of ancient Israelite kingdoms. Eventually he adopted traits from other Gods in the Pantheon and became the Big Guy.
View on Reddit #71307294

Galgan3@reddit

Been a while since I read through that stuff, that's why Babylonian has a question mark at the end.
View on Reddit #71315548

ForumsDwelling@reddit

According to Galgan3, you must mention every single other religion when you pick apart one. You're not allowed to dissect one at a time according to the mighty redditor Galgan3. Mention every single religion or else!!
View on Reddit #71307066

Galgan3@reddit

I was only pointing out that this isn't a unique phenomenon, I'm an atheist for context, and an ex Muslim one at that, so trust me, I hold more contempt for Islam than most. You the average redditor being a smug little bitch with poor reading comprehension doesn't surprise me at all tho. Have a lovely day.
View on Reddit #71315350

NeogeneRiot@reddit

Sorry, this fact doesn't fit in with the greentext reddit hivemind. Downvoted!
View on Reddit #71303358

g6c_@reddit

That's pretty much the case for every other religion.
View on Reddit #71314514

Gayorg_Zirschnitz@reddit

Almost like religion is a piece of cultural history.
View on Reddit #71313289

terryaki510@reddit

This is literally just how religions work lol
View on Reddit #71313201

whiningdervish@reddit

Jeetnon figures out the the top secret of Muslamikkk theology: the acknowledgement and refinement of preexisting Abrahamic distortions existing in the world at that time mentioned in the very first chapter of their book
View on Reddit #71312544

poopcockshit@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/jyqz4r2epf1g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9612970492560b03d2b4cb4644b678e1db671570
View on Reddit #71301444

ForumsDwelling@reddit

That's exactly what Muhammads followers did
View on Reddit #71306973

poopcockshit@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/bidezlfmlg1g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f64b96221865290115818a9a56906802e5d6576
View on Reddit #71312539

poopcockshit@reddit

“Tfw they just said something so pedophobic you gotta hit them with the diddy stare:” https://preview.redd.it/hgqqb5lnkg1g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed96aca9234a3b6ca82685230bbd48a810d1ffc7
View on Reddit #71312253

mylaptopredditVC@reddit

cultist cope ultra mode
View on Reddit #71303702

poopcockshit@reddit

“Tfw they just said something so pedophobic you gotta hit them with the diddy stare:” https://preview.redd.it/3j9yib3llg1g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52acc018ed1ccde3b4d560853d68cf5438529fdf
View on Reddit #71312532

poopcockshit@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/5yi2tglxkg1g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e257cbf06cb38c3f892b8798240ef654d2d06f71
View on Reddit #71312295

Battle_Axe_Jax@reddit

Anon discovers syncretism
View on Reddit #71309993

SmoothPimp85@reddit

So these are the people who took the nonsense about the secondary nature and epigonism of religions in Heretic as some kind of incredible revelation?
View on Reddit #71307626

spiritofporn@reddit

Catholic prayers back in the day: Morning prayer after waking up: thanksgiving, offering of the day, Our Father, Hail Mary and the Creed Evening prayer: examination of conscience, act of contrition, our father, hail Mary Angelus Prayer at 6am, noon and 6pm. Who's counting?
View on Reddit #71307356

WiggleMyTail2Bladee@reddit

Also they stole p3dophelia from the Christians 🙏
View on Reddit #71304576

ForumsDwelling@reddit

How old was Aisha when she married Muhammad? Around 6-7!!! 🫴🫳 hahaha funny numbers
View on Reddit #71306933

Mountain_Thing8983@reddit

Bunch of mature philosophers, theologists and intellectual elite who've never heard the term "abrahamic". Any one who reads that this that was raised outside the US education system will be unimpressed by the deep religion schizo posting.
View on Reddit #71305803

OedinaryLuigi420@reddit

Muslim here (not a sheikh though just a layman who did research). I've heard this argument of Muhammad PBUH using the bible/torah as inspiration for the Qur'an many times already, and for me it doesn't really affect my faith as this has an easy explanation. The Islamic view was that many prophets came before Muhammad PBUH. (Note that the hadith literature about exactly 124,000 is da'īf/weak but the Qur'an states that there were more prophets than the 25 mentioned by name in the Qur'an, so the sentiment is correct but the exact number isn't; it could've been either lower or higher). All of them taught the same laws (shari'ā) but later on, evil people in power started to remove parts they don't like and replace them with ones that benefit them. There's a reason why there are so many "heretical" Christian books, and Islam would've had many such "heretical" Qur'ans had it not been for the rigorous chain of narration (isnad) maintained throughout the years to prove what was directly divine and what was hearsay. OP's argument also has the problem of saying that as the texts above precede the Qur'an chronologically, they must therefore be copied from them. We already established that they were corrupted forms of the same divine law, so it's as stupid as saying that Spanish came from Italian instead of both coming from one common source (that being Latin). Also, Muhammad PBUH was illiterate for most of his life, so he literally couldn't have done this if he wanted to.
View on Reddit #71305596

Arstanishe@reddit

well, duh. Not only every religion took from predecessors, but even atheism took from christianity in a form of morals and by opposing it. Nothing under the moon in our human world came out of nowhere, everything is connected through human experience and expression. islam is no exception
View on Reddit #71304142

CasulWrecker@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/76gsmwuiwf1g1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f05548792e0a139b7eb97bd1e6bb006683c1a7a Who would have thought,religions have mixed with other religions and borrowed traditions adding just a little twist to "spice" it up. Oh also, the whole "virgin woman gave birth to a male savior" miracle.
View on Reddit #71303837

ivar-the-bonefull@reddit

Thinking any religion isn't the result of countless sects that came before, would be an extremely moronic take.
View on Reddit #71303765

bigtree2x5@reddit

This is literally every religion on the planet that does this. Christianity used to be polytheistic for a short while, and now it still practically is but every other religions deities are relabelled as demons of some sort
View on Reddit #71303360

ibench-1pounds@reddit

Lot of mad Christians in this post lol. Every religion is a retelling of others especially the abrahamic ones. It’s why some people tried to create Chrislam lmao, even as a joke it worked because the religion is the same minus like 3-4 huge points
View on Reddit #71302928