A small dive into the software I use...and "just ditch Adobe" isn't good enough for creatives.
Posted by Navi_Professor@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 30 comments

TLDR.
The shape of creatives on linux isnt bad, but its not great either...and its hard to justify when you can use any tool on the other two platforms just fine without a second thought, and i fear gaming is being focused too much on vs the overall useage as PCs are much more for gaming...
This post, mainly fueled by the recent announcement of the Steam Machine and people clamoring for it and its OS.
and to be clear, its a good device, i have no qualms with it.
But I do feel there are giant holes that "it's just for gaming" really gloss over deeper issues that will hamper adoption, OVERALL, big time. This pertains to "the desktop is just for gaming," and I've been fighting this for years, and there's no one I know who hasn't dipped out of gaming, at some point, to do other things.
Some background, I am currently a film student, I am getting a degree in 3D Animation. I have done a LOT of 3d work before starting this degree, but starting college has only widened my software palette
i still game a lot, i would gauge i spend roughly 50/50 in software and gaming. In fact, it is not uncommon for me to have a game open whilst I create, especially if I am using it for reference, or in the case of Blockbench, I will have Minecraft open to check what it's doing in-game.
What i have done is i have compiled ever bit of software ive had to use in and out of school, then highlighted what is currently in my software stack, and then what OS it uses.
For the most part, i have a MOSTLY adobe free suite. With only the Substance Suite being my main app. (and for transparency, these are bought on steam as perpetual)
But even taking Adobe out of this chart, entirely.... and swapping it out for say, 3Dcoat, is still just under half of the software on the list with 9/19 natively supporting linux (with Substance Suite removed)
On top of this, only half of the Linux-supported applications explicitly say they support a common distro like Ubuntu or Mint, with Houdini outright listing a ton.
The problem with this, is all it takes is a cranky support person to not help you, because you're not on the right distro.
There are also other considerations. I have carefully built my software over the years to require Nvidia as little as possible...I currently run an all-Radeon workstation. However, this has its limits and has boxed me in more than a few times.
Maya has Linux support listed. Arnold, its renderer, does not support Radeon. Cuda only.
i eat rendering on it with my TR
Agisoft Metashape was the only photogrammetry program I found that didn't solely rely on CUDA for depth maps, instead using OpenCL and Vulkan.
From what I understand, NVIDIA support on Linux is still very poor.
And yes, I fully understand wine and bottles, etc, exist, but that's not the point of this post.
This whole list, has full Mac and Windows support, minus a single app (and max to be fair is derlict as all hell and idk why its still in use so much)
But as someone who lives doing this, i could jump to mac without a second thought (for whatever reason)
But for linux? its still not an option.
sure. i could fight and i'm positive i could get a lot of apps if maybe not all of these to function.
But when you are in the creative groove, the last thing I want to do is have to figure out WHY a piece of software isn't working and by the time it's working, have that iron no longer be hot and I've wasted a night.
Even running Radeon hardware, which is something most people will go pale at when you're running in a creative space...if its on windows, 99% chance i can pick it up, learn it and use it.
probably closer to 95% on mac...
and this doesnt account for things like community addons to already natively supported linux apps that may not work in linux...
i tried ubuntu back in 2020, my workstation then was a 3900x with Dual Vega 56 Cards, i was using Blender with the Luxcore Render engine....
Blender worked fine, but i had to install ubuntu despite i tried starting with mint. (for the proprietary AMD drivers needed for OpenCL rendering...i imagine it is the same for HIP these days)
Cycles in OpenCL mode worked beautifully.
Luxcore crashed the system so hard i got to learn what happens when a graphics shit themselves with no BSOD.... after configuring the drivers and also trying ROCM for its OpenCL extensions....and pretty much getting told by devs of luxcore, "FO" (and already having had a utterly awful time setting up network drivers, and it being days at this point) i went back to windows and currently have no plans of going back..... and i dont see it improving for linux any time soon with people so hard focused on gaming
The Grand hope is, something like the steam machine leads to more people on linux, thus developers, and i hope that is the case. more is good and we need it in the computer space.
However, as someone whose computer has always been more than just for gaming...a box of imagination. I need to be able to use it, full stop and not question it otherwise.
Swapping tools isnt always an option, either. Learning tools is a giant, giant time sink. Different apps that, despite competing in the same space, frequently don't offer the same gamut of tools or possibilities.
Blender for example....It can't touch the poly counts Zbrush hits, not by a LONG shot. and Blender is STILL not as pen friendly as Zbrush
World creator, Vulkan-based and hyper-focused on terrain generation.... it does 1 thing and it does it EXTREMELY well.
Substance painter is still borderline unmatched...3Dcoat is good, but its not the same.
Maya and Blender do the same thing but are built so fundamentally differently, a full switch over can take weeks if not months....
i STILL cannot model in maya....but i have almost 11k hours in blender.
However, the time it takes to shift programs is something that isn't talked about enough, especially if you're on the clock and time is very much money to you.
T
CyclopsRock@reddit
For what it's worth I'm a Pipeline Developer at a VFX studio and, like the vast majority of VFX and Anim studios, we predominantly use Linux. We have a few Windows machines that are used almost entirely for interoperability - getting stuff out of a Windows-specific bit of software and into our Pipe, at which we point we fuck it off.
So, needless to say, it's very possible. Nvidia is fine. Arnold is primarily used as a CPU renderer so the lack of AMD support isn't especially meaningful. The reason Rocky seems to be inexplicably widely supported is because it's the OS of choice for the VFX Reference Platform - the industry's attempt at making explicit a bunch of the (many, many) variables that can make setting all this shit up a pain, precisely to avoid the situation of a grouchy tech person saying you chose the wrong distro.
kwyxz@reddit
Can confirm, I manage workstations at an animation studio and we have close to zero Windows machines in our pipeline. We also have a handful of Macs for some specific stuff. Finance uses some Windows machines, but virtually no artist. Everything is done in Linux with Maya, Houdini, Nuke, Harmony, the usual stuff.
BinkReddit@reddit
So refreshing.
FattyDrake@reddit
Awhile ago ToonBoom stopped offering the Linux version to non-business users.
kwyxz@reddit
Ah I see. Enterprise only then. Yeah that's not going to be helping enthusiasts or non-pros.
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
yep and i'm in the enthuisast camp whos just trying to keep a decently wide net..i went off this sheet on what i can get.
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
like i said, its not bad and i can see a pipeline made and most of the major hitters can be done on linux. (houduni is a giant one) but its also no where near as flexable as it could be. and for someone learning...its annoying as a hobbyist who may need a large tool box to land a job or freelance.
klyith@reddit
Gaming is being focused on by one company (Valve), and they're getting results because
Games use a fairly straightforward set of APIs, and often have a lot of stuff in common. If you make improvements to Proton for the Unreal Engine, it hits a zillion games. Also games aren't fighting back. Games on Steam mainly do copy protection through Steam, and Valve can control that. But still, there are lots of games that don't work on linux. Mainly due to strong Windows-only anti-cheat.
A bunch of different pro creative software, which each has pretty unique quirks and unique DRM, is much more difficult. A lot of that stuff is actively hostile to running on Linux because their copy-protection could be broken. Hardware that's not fully functional or has problems on linux, with no open source drivers, is another thing that can't be helped.
So go complain to the people who sold you the stuff about linux support. Don't complain to linux.
Write a letter to each of the companies in your post, say "I have moved to primarily linux, if I can't make the next version of your software work I won't be buying it".
Or don't.
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
my main gripe is in steams own marketing "or install your own apps"
for it...
soo outside of the gaming bubble, its a wild west that you'll need actual experiance in linux for, or go to windows...and my problem with going to windows, is the windows drivers for deck, have been super spotty and you just cant slap generic AMD drivers on it fron what i recall.
klyith@reddit
There are plenty of apps that work great in Linux. The apps you need don't, which sucks, but you are a small minority.
So don't buy it? I don't know why you would buy one if you absolutely wanted windows.
And while the Windows APU drivers for the deck aren't updated frequently, they are at least provided. Valve says you can do what you want with it, not that they support Windows on it. You have a pretty big double standard here.
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
if the price is right on this, why not???
like if its sub $800, its a good deal and esp if its sub 600? then its a no brainer.
a pc with similar spec, new, is $950.
and i do think a lot of people would want windows on these, not just for creatives but anti cheat games or just othet games that might not work yet.
its not a handheld so something like power management isnt as big of a deal, and it doesnt have special features like deck that can be utilized really.
the most it has, is antennas for the controller. until stated otherwise, it will still need the dongle for the frame..
klyith@reddit
because you want to use windows on it, and might get poor support? Step one is to complain to companies when they don't support linux or windows. But step two is to not buy stuff that isn't supported. Companies don't learn as long as you keep handing them money.
(and it's not gonna be super cheap, valve said it's going to be "priced like a pc not a console". maybe the 512gb version is $750-800.)
tkdeng@reddit
For video editing, I think Kdenlive is really good.
On windows I used to use Sony Vegas Pro for YouTube videos, and Kdenlive seems to have most of the basic features.
cgoldberg@reddit
If you need Adobe, you should use an OS that supports it. It goes both ways.. there are tools I need that make Linux the only viable option.
T8ert0t@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm51xZHZI6g
itzjackybro@reddit
This is the catch-22 that Linux sits in right now. All the basics (browsing, email, social media) are working fine, plus gaming and software dev. Anything more specialized (creative software, CAD, etc.) faces this problem:
Valve broke the cycle by making it possible to run most (anticheat-free) Windows games on Linux via Proton. Now it's up to other companies to either port their software or patch Wine.
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
but that pool is still minuscule though. unless the steam machine sells like actual console numbers...proper double digit millions, i dont see the pool growing enough.
will it help a lot? yeah, absolutely. but i domt think enough for any big companies to really care...and something like blender at the end of the day is a massive exception and not the rule.
DrBaronVonEvil@reddit
I guess we'll see. MacOS got a big bump in 2000 with the release of OS X but it was still less than 4% for years. Meanwhile Adobe, Autodesk and others began supporting Macs once they hit that user milestone.
I think as Linux market share creeps up to 3-5%, it just becomes a matter of willpower on the part of these companies.
In the meantime, I would remind artists that beautiful work was done with Photoshop CS2, which arguably pales in comparison to even a Photopea. Sometimes it's more beneficial to run with the more ethical option than it is with the easier one.
My Commerical Art professor in 2010 showed me some beautiful vector art he had done with Macromedia Freehand back in the early 00s. Go look up some footage of that tool and tell me it's a lack of features that holds you back with Inkscape.
Pixelsmithing4life@reddit
Linux Mint user here. For DaVinci Resolve, Google “MakeDebResolve,” go to that page and follow all instructions; in an hour or two, you’ll have a version of Resolve that installs natively for Debian and derivatives.
Also Google “Affinity for Linux.” BIG topic. There is a dude on YouTube, goes by the handle of “MattsCreative.” Trust me, he’s got the cure for what ails you.
In an afternoon, you should have both Resolve and Affinity running on your Linux computer. BTW, make sure your Linux system is updated to at least the 24.04 version of Ubuntu (22.1 if you’re on Mint).
Navi_Professor@reddit (OP)
and thats kind of the problem, i'm not someome who wants to do this for every tool thats not natively supported or have to step around to get it to work on some other distro...a linux app should just work on linux. and it does me no good if its a new app that doesnt have that level of support.
just solving the "things cant run distro to distro" problem, universally and not a case by case basis....would help linux quite dramatically on its own.
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
I ditched Adobe long before I ditched Windows.
I was sick of all their BS. I’ve had no problem working with graphics on open-source alternatives.
FattyDrake@reddit
I used to use Maya but decided to make the move to Blender. It's different, but the 3D basics are the same and you can carry those over. It takes some time but 3D in general is a complex process and even if you went from Maya to Cinema 4D you'd have the same sort of new workflow issues.
And Blender might become more pen friendly since they're developing an iPad version. It's just slower because less money than a commercial product.
The same transition time holds true for any software even if both are commercial on the same platform.
Also I think a big thing people miss about Adobe is how well all of their suite interacts. Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, Audition, After Effects.. you can pretty much use the files of each interchangeably. You open a Photoshop file in After Effects and all the layers are available for you to animate, for example.
On Linux the closest open source alternatives, respectively, are Krita, Inkscape, Kdenlive, Audacity (4 at least), and Natron. And last I checked Natron could import Krita animations, but it's not as easy to just import a Krita file and have all the layers ready to go. It's been awhile so maybe that changed. But the thing is, those 5 apps would need some sort of bridge so if you updated a file in one, it updated it in the other. I.e. change a Krita file and have it automatically update in Kdenlive without having to re-import or anything.
A big issue is also money. Until recently, nearly all the money in the Linux space went towards business/enterprise uses. Valve changed that by pouring money into games and related projects, a consumer-focused use. What there needs to be is some reason (or company) that would want money to be poured into Linux for creative software. But that's hard to find for hobbyist and individual uses.
That said, I did eventually move from CSP to Krita, and the only thing I truly miss are 3D layers. The text tool sucks, but is much better in 5.3 (which is still in beta.)
Also, anything that requires Rocky Linux can be made to work with relatively little effort on an RPM-based distro, i.e. use Fedora.
undrwater@reddit
There's generally a reason people switch, and it's not gaming. It's because the current commercial operating systems seem to have lost their focus on the consumer as consumer, and moved to consumer as product. It's frustrating.
If you haven't reached that point with the commercial operating systems, there's no good reason to switch.
I will say, though, that there are plenty of creatives who use an open operating system along with open creative software. It required a change in workflow, to be sure, but it seems to have been worth it for them.
I wish you good hunting!
KnowZeroX@reddit
What do you mean gaming is being focused too much on? I mean you are aware that:
The one focusing on gaming is Valve who makes most of their money on gaming via steam
The gaming support isn't even native, it is through WINE/Proton, some of the tools above do also work through WINE even if not perfect
Games are a lot easier to get working in WINE because a lot of it can just be sent via translating into vulkan. Applications on the otherhand can be harder, especially when some vendors intentionally make it harder
Gaming makes up way more PC usage than creative tools, easily over 10x
The steam machine is trying to face the console market rather than pc market, it just happens to have pc capability.
In terms of distro support, that is why things like flatpak and distrobox exist. To eliminate the works on my distro thing. Distrobox can run other distro stuff in another distro.
While nvidia isn't as good as AMD for linux, it isn't as horrible as it used t o be. Also, there is ZLUDA if you have a compatible AMD gpu. It allows running CUDA stuff on AMD albeit not officially supported
Deissued@reddit
More of a casual use thing but Adobe Atmos is also not on Linux and has no alternatives sadly
jermygod@reddit
chicken and egg problem can only be solved in small steps
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
homeless_wonders@reddit
I don't really game, and use my computer and other Linux devices in various ways, one of the things that usually catches people is the level of customization you can do You can practically change the layout yourself on nearly everything creative wise to match your workflow, and that's a lot of options. Most Linux developers are just linux engineers, no ones paying them to commit, they just do, and since they don't wanna make a choice on how something will work for you, they leave it open for you to do it. This isn't easier by any means, but is something you'll need to consider Do you want a streamlined experience or do you want freedom. Linux will always go to the freedom route, and sometimes this will get in the way of your workflow
If you don't want these problems, you're gonna have to learn Linux fundamentally. This is an OS that has been built around server technology, and use. I would wager 90% of the commits for Linux specifically, is done by people working with the kernel, in a enterprise or service provider environment, not a user environment.
The kind of whole philosophy is, if you see a problem, come up with a solution, or find someone to come up with a solution to implement it. you have the freedom to do that.
This is where opinionated distros come in. They're opinionated because they have things preconfigured to run specific ways, and if there's not an creative opinionated distribution you like, the expected solution is to make one for yourself, and then maybe make it a real project if people get interested.if you don't want to do it yourself, pay someone to do it.
Sorry if this isn't the answer you want to hear, but it's the answer I'm gonna give.
homeless_wonders@reddit
Additionally winboat is pretty good with adobe products, maybe look into that.
SuAlfons@reddit
There is no real alternative for professionals that need to use Adobe.
But many just use it for hobby purposes or using just basic functions. In those cases it's possible to just get by with some other software.
bsensikimori@reddit
Gimp and kdenlive fill my needs for what I need from Adobe, but then, I don't run an effects studio