Crazy right??? How has this unbecome the standard. Valve Frame.
Posted by geeshta@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 247 comments
Posted by geeshta@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 247 comments
dowath@reddit
Really exciting that it's running ARM with a translation later for x86 too.
canitplaycrisis@reddit
It is an emulator.
GandhiTheDragon@reddit
That would be a pretty jacked up emulator
RoundTradition9634@reddit
Transition layer ≈ emulator
NatoBoram@reddit
A bit like when saying that WINE Is No Emulator is an emulator
RoundTradition9634@reddit
Bruh wine is literally the windows kernel but it's like 90 times worse OOF
GandhiTheDragon@reddit
Is it? I thought WINE was essentially just a collection of Windows Libraries and kernel function mappings
RoundTradition9634@reddit
It is, but that's basically what a kernel emulator is called.
GandhiTheDragon@reddit
But it is not emulating a kernel. I don't think you quite understand what an emulator is
Mars_Bear2552@reddit
wine isnt a kernel or kernel emulator at all. it doesnt implement windows syscalls. it provides dynamic libraries for programs to load.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
Kinda...
I don't think it's all that interesting to talk about whether WINE is or is not technically an emulator. I'm fine saying it emulates the Windows API. And even the things we all agree are emulators are also translation layers.
I think it's more of a branding thing.
I mean, WINE literally renamed itself from "Windows Emulator" to "WINE Is Not an Emulator". And you can kinda see why -- at the time, emulating a whole PC was ludicrously heavyweight. Like in 1999, if you thought running a Windows app in WINE was going to be like running it in Virtual PC on your iMac, you might not bother trying Linux at all.
Same thing when "virtualization" showed up. People still knew emulation was slow, so by saying it's a "virtual machine" and not an emulated machine... it's actually kinda shocking to me how fast this showed up, with Apple coming to Intel and virtualizers like Parallels becoming a thing, and AWS coming out the same year!
And Apple did it with Rosetta. I don't remember if they did it with the PPC -> Intel migration, but if you look up what they say about Rosetta 2, they don't use the word 'emulator' or 'emulation' at all!
So... FEX calls itself an emulator. But I imagine they'll rebrand at some point, because 'emulator' makes people think it's slow.
canitplaycrisis@reddit
In the GamersNexus video an engineer says it is an emulator, I don't know what you guys smoked. The project on GitHub even is called an emulator.
NordschleifeLover@reddit
You don't get to sass people like that when you don't have any knowledge on the subject to defend your previous statement. "Someone said that on youtube" is a lame argument.
canitplaycrisis@reddit
"Some guy on YouTube" I hope you are trolling. An engineer of Valve literally said it in the video, and there even is a short scene in which the GitHub project is shown.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
No no, video interviews are all fake and meaningless dontcha know, The Ignorant Redditor has decreed it such!
Suspicious_Kiwi_3343@reddit
It’s an emulator. You’re ignorant and obnoxious about it rather than taking literally 10 seconds to google it.
GandhiTheDragon@reddit
I didn't say it ISNT an emulator, mister "I don't know what you guys smorked" I just remarked that it must be a pretty powerful one
canitplaycrisis@reddit
Sorry if you thought I addressed you, I didn't mean you. Probably you thought because I replied on your reply.
Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit
I have no opinion in this discussion, but writing "sorry if you thought" or "sorry if you took it that way" isn't an excuse when you made the mistake of replying to the person.
That's same as hitting someone and then saying "sorry if you are sensitive to pain".
canitplaycrisis@reddit
Yeah I understand it can sound disrespectful. It wasn't my intention. But it can definitely seem like it was.
AnotherLie@reddit
Hell, a classy way of dismissing someone is saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walking away. This is rudeness in a cheap suit.
block_place1232@reddit
well that's usually the fucking point
canitplaycrisis@reddit
Sorry for being sorry.
GreenFox1505@reddit
https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX
XOmniverse@reddit
Really curious where the downvotes are coming from. A layer that translates instructions for one CPU to instructions for another CPU is literally the definition of emulation.
Great-TeacherOnizuka@reddit
I don’t understand your downvotes at all. You are right.
A Valve designer, Lawrence Yang, involved in this project, said it himself in the GamersNexus video. There is no better source than this.
But the sweaty linux users in this sub know more than the guy working on that project.
-
The project description:
FroyoStrict6685@reddit
no its not lmao
GreenFox1505@reddit
https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX
dowath@reddit
Woah, I don't know why you're being downvoted so hard - you're right. The FEX project that Valve is using and contributing to for this describes itself as an emulator.
So we're not getting Rosetta like on Mac OS, which is a translation layer like I've miscategorised in my comment, we're getting emulation more akin to Qemu. Though based on some of the demos I've seen it looks very fast.
Still very cool! It means more development that projects like Asahi Linux can use and of course broader adoption of ARM.
tajetaje@reddit
Eh, half and half. x86 in the application is run in an emulator, but iirc it forwards some calls to the ARM libraries on your systems which is where a lot of the actual heavy stuff happens. So yeah, like qemu-user, but optimized to emulate as little as possible
StunningChef3117@reddit
So qemu with kvm? Qemu (emulation) kvm (systemlibs) or do I understand it wrong
tajetaje@reddit
No, QEMU and KVM are for running fully isolated virtual machines, FEX uses JIT recompiler to convert x86 code to ARM code and then execute it
macromorgan@reddit
Sorry to be that guy splitting hairs, but QEMU can either run as a virtual machine/machine emulator or a userspace emulator (qemu-user-static). I use it all the time to simply chroot into an arm64 disk image to affect repairs from my amd64 box or build my own debian disk images with debootstrap and qemu-user-static.
tajetaje@reddit
Yes sorry I was referring to the qemu that one would sue with KVM. In fact FEX specifically calls out the similarities to qemu-user in its docs
macromorgan@reddit
No worries. I just use qemu-user like *daily* so I wanted to make sure folks knew it was also an option, albeit a horribly slow one. But it works extremely well as long as you don't mind slowness (and forget anything to do with graphics acceleration, that ain't happening).
StunningChef3117@reddit
Sorry i might have phrased it badly but i meant more in concept.
Qemu is fully software and slow so i was trying to equate this to the part that is enulated
Kvm is the more efficient kernel level virtualisation with hardware excel so more performant kinda like the system lib calls are more efficient that the the emulated calls
But i see that it cannot really be simplified to that extend thx so much for your comment TIL
:)
GoatStimulator_@reddit
I don't know why you're being downvoted - the Valve engineers literally corrected Steve (Gamers Nexus) that it was an emulator and not a translation layer.
GreenFox1505@reddit
https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX
loonite@reddit
This is beautiful. ARM is such a blessing for battery life, with things like this it can take even more ground on things like laptops.
GreenFox1505@reddit
I've been playing with it a bit. I think I'm not getting OpenGL working, but I disabled the 3D renderer in Godot. I can make about 1800 physics cubes on a Rock5b+ before my framerate dips below 60fps using the ARM build of Godot. On the x86 build, I start to drop at about 800. And this doesn't account for Wine overhead.
Not the best benchmark, but it gets us in the ballpark here of what to expect. IMHO, x86->ARM is amazing. It's an amazing start. Some early VR games built for old CPUs will likely run great. BUT Valve has to ship some sort of ARM native API, eventually.
loonite@reddit
It's currently the only thing holding me from dropping x86 entirely. If Valve and other developers can advance x86-in-ARM in the next few years my next work laptop will for sure be ARM based.
Jarcode@reddit
I'm probably not going to buy any of the new hardware, I'm just completely hyped for the open source contributions in the ARM space by Valve. This is awesome!
psyblade42@reddit
Is it? While its obviously ARM I didn't see anything about a x86 translation layer. Rather I expect it to just run stuff that's already made for ARM headsets (like the Quest).
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
The marketing materials state that the Steam game compatibility ratings will expand to include Steam Frame and Steam Machine subratings alongside the current Steam Deck rating; that'd imply that Valve expects people to play existing Steam games on the Frame, and considering that all software currently distributed on Steam is compiled for x86(-64), that in turn implies an x86 translation layer.
vbsteven@reddit
I think the “play all existing (x86) Steam games” means that they are streaming the game video to the Frame. So the game runs on your PC and is streamed to the headset. They only need an arm video decoder then.
psyblade42@reddit
Could be as you say but it's not necessarily so.
The compat could just be related to using it as a headset on some PC. Afaik compat between those is broad but not universal. So some steam PC game might work with a Quest but not with a Frame.
Or the might start selling ARM games too. Afaik the vast majority of existing games designed for running directly on headsets are already ARM.
chiefhunnablunts@reddit
if this effectively replaces arch linux for arm, i'd be so happy. having to compile every single new package from source is incredibly...annoying.
lirannl@reddit
Yo it's arm64?! That's really going to be revolutionary 🤩
Rubicon_Roll@reddit
its the other was around, the Steam Machine runs x86 and can run programs for ARMm
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
This one is about the Steam Frame, which is ARM.
I get it, it's confusing. Valve somehow figured out how to count to 3 and launched a new Steam Machine, new Steam Controller, and the Steam Frame all on the same day!
HypnoticPolygons@reddit
Hopefully with this being created more game devs will be encouraged to make linux based games so we dont have to run proton layer over.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
Proton is fine it would be enough that the devs made sure the game works with it.
VaronKING@reddit
Valve is going to make Linux mainstream.
PsyOmega@reddit
Android already did that. It has like 70% market share of every computing device globally.
xzer@reddit
The beggining of Android was optimistic to have a fair bit of tinkerers but the custom ROM scene really died out as more and more controls were added. Considering access to a full desktop with safeties in place to not break the device the potential to bring it to young people and experiment again is pretty cool, in short bring the Linux *desktop (potentially) to the mainstream.
VaronKING@reddit
Well yes, but ChromeOS and Android are far more limiting than SteamOS and Linux as a whole.
rresende@reddit
lol.
pomcomic@reddit
"It's your PC, you can do what you want with it" hell yeah it is, hell yeah I can.
apfelimkuchen@reddit
Funny enough thsts what we want to hear even if we not change the OS. Same with updates: in win i hatte them but i am happy to do Thema almost every day on fedora
pomcomic@reddit
because windows doesn't give you a choice on when to update.
Historical-Camel4517@reddit
I don’t think they even needed to say that people are gonna mod this thing to hell
ElectronicFlamingo36@reddit
They could easily have an encrypted filesystem and other pretty hard measures to hack the thing, but yes, generally still true.
Historical-Camel4517@reddit
Their whole thing about it is that’s it’s your oc not a console and not a subscription just a prebuilt pc
AlicesReflexion@reddit
Sure, but it's nice to have that as the standard policy in contrast to... Others.
fojam@reddit
I hadn't played with my quest 2 in a while so I decided to mess around with it a bit yesterday. Except it couldn't connect to my (old) phone anymore, so I was blocked from doing anything by a screen that only let me "generate a new device code" (which obviously failed because I dont have that phone anymore). After an actual HOUR of trying to find a way to get past that screen, I had to factory reset the whole thing, set it all up from scratch again, and then finally FINALLY I could play something. 2 hours later.
And somehow the quest is still the "best" option out there for VR. I cant wait for the steam frame to dethrone that pile of crap
Wheeljack26@reddit
Handed my quest to brother, was looking for a vr for sim racing, looks like i found it
PineappleScanner@reddit
I hate that it's considered "modding" to run code on a CPU that is perfectly capable of running it.
Historical-Camel4517@reddit
It’s not just that it’s your console I meant addition and changing the internals a bit
SergioEduP@reddit
not only "a CPU that is perfectly capable of running it" but perhaps more importantly a device that *you bought*
Positronic_Matrix@reddit
Indeed. The Quest 2 and 3 are maddeningly locked down. I can’t wait to get out of that ecosystem, having Meta/Facebook apps forced on me and are impossible to delete. Honestly, there are like three quick-start UI slots of apps and two of them are taken up by Meta shovelware.
Dry_Blacksmith6187@reddit
That's what whole linux is about, and it's beautiful!
bew78@reddit
THIS is our standard!
whatThePleb@reddit
My biggest critique point about this is, that they avoid to mention that it's Linux. It would really help to normalize for casuals, also they are trying to hide the fact that it's not their whole own work by this.
Unfortunya333@reddit
Bro most average people don't even really know what Linux is tbh. No point in mentioning imo. Arch btw
whatThePleb@reddit
That's exactly the point. Needed to raise awareness.
tinverse@reddit
For most people, that's not a selling point.
whatThePleb@reddit
Yes, but raises awareness.
AdventurousFly4909@reddit
True that!
TheJackiMonster@reddit
It's stating "KDE Plasma" and "SteamOS 3 (Arch-based)" in the specs... do you really need it to say: "LINUX, it's Linux by the way!" ?
kaplanfx@reddit
“I use Arch btw” - Steam Frame
smile_e_face@reddit
I kind of thought the same thing, watching the trailers, but I figure "SteamOS" hits the average ear a lot better than "Linux."
Yellow_Bee@reddit
Why? The tool matters more than the underlying OS. Like, no cares Android is based on Unix (unless you're a developer).
Verified_Peryak@reddit
Linux on ARM look bright kinda want to try a linux rom on my old pixel 6 just to try the translation layer
CodeCompost@reddit
Yes, we've been here before and yes, people are just going to install Windows on it.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
On an ARM VR headset? If you think so...
qtstm32fan@reddit
Windows on arm exists, Installing it on the frame will suck, probably, but still
Achereto@reddit
It's not the standard yet. It's just Valve doing Valve things in an attempt to make it the standard. Hopefully it'll work out.
Shap6@reddit
is it not the standard?
ViperHQ@reddit
Sadly not really nowadays we get things like the switch 2 where sure you own the hardware but Nintendo reserves the right to basically brick the console, basically you are just renting the software.
mrjackspade@reddit
I'm not aware of any PC's that are locked to a particular OS so I have no idea why everyone is so excited about this.
Every single PC desktop and handheld, even those targeted for gaming, allow installation of alternative OS.
Thats why Bazzite is so popular.
The only things that don't allow installation of a custom OS are game consoles which aside from PS3 (?) have never supported that.
The weirdest circlejerk is starting around this one line. I have no idea why anyone expected anything different. It's literally just an ARM mini-PC.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
Macs are literally just ARM PCs as well. And I don't care about the historic distinction, a computer is a computer. So are phones, consoles, VR headsets and other consumer devices. It is definitely not the standard that all of them are this open.
kaplanfx@reddit
PCs yes. This would be the only stand alone VR headset that isn’t locked down though.
An1nterestingName@reddit
They're saying this used to be the standard, but is now not, so it's cool that Valve did this.
Obnomus@reddit
I love it when company says, it's your pc do whatever the hell u want. Only if other companies were just like this world would be a better place.
Pyryara@reddit
No publicly traded company would ever do this, because it isn't a massive selling point and they all love locking down their ecosystem for $$$.
It's such a fucking blessing that Valve is privately owned and still successful.
RandomHuman2169@reddit
Its a massive selling point because no other console brand does this and it's a big encouragement for their PC user base to buy this, as they are already used to the freedom of PCs. If Valve knew it wouldn't encourage people to buy it, why would they bother putting it in the ad?
Obnomus@reddit
Then they're literally shooting them in their foot, yeah it makes money for a short time you'll just end up dying.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Yeah they sell the company for parts and then move on to the next one. Thats how investment in public companies works. Terrible for the consumer and the market, but great for executive pockets.
tuxbass@reddit
Yes, that makes sense. Enshittifying your products will end you dead in the long run. That makes sense.
FluxUniversity@reddit
They all start out that way :/
Yweain@reddit
Non of the major consoles were ever that way. And PC was and still is like that. I am not sure I actually know of anything that started very open and permissable and ended up closed and restricted in a hardware world.
Obnomus@reddit
Android
Ugly_Slut-Wannabe@reddit
I can't wait for 2026 to come so Google can arbitrarily tell me what I can or cannot install on my own fucking phone.
FluxUniversity@reddit
Time to buy a new phone! Call up your cell phone retailers and ask for the pine phone. Im serious. Do not buy android devices.
AcridWings_11465@reddit
It's worse than that. Google essentially killed F-droid. I hope the European Commission brings down the hammer before new year. What they're doing is almost certainly illegal, given their market share and the duopoly condition of phone operating systems.
Obnomus@reddit
I use a rooted phone and alot of apps have problems but it's nice that I found good alternatives and both my banking and payments apps don't care.
ForesterLC@reddit
Valve been around for a long time brother. Let's enjoy it while we can.
Obnomus@reddit
Real
benabrig@reddit
I’m not sure exactly what you’re trying to say here. This has “unbecome the standard,” so this used to be the standard, and now isn’t. But what was the standard? Linux on embedded devices? Using a VR headset with an actual OS? Quick suspend/resume and cloud saves?
ecthiender@reddit
Buying a device and actually own it, customize it, do whatever you want with it.
I'm not a gamer but I guess all the modern xboxes and PS consoles are locked down. I mean at the end of the day all are computers, but you're not allowed to use them as you wish. You're at the mercy of the company, even if you paid for it.
And it's not just gaming boxes or computing devices only, various machines/technology is headed that way. The biggest example is automobiles. Now you simply don't have the right to repair it, modify it, even if you paid for it.
readyloaddollarsign@reddit
... and for 98.9% of the consumers out there, that's fine. It is a plastice/metal box that does what they want it to do.
General_Session_4450@reddit
No it's not fine and it's this mentality that will lead to the loss of general computing. At the current rate and with Windows increasingly laying the groundwork to lock down desktop and laptops it's not long until you cannot buy any hardware were you own your device anymore.
Irverter@reddit
It's fine to them. Their computer works and does what they need.
CrazyKilla15@reddit
In a lot of cases it doesnt. People may not notice until it doesnt, but almost nobody is wants to be at their mercy. Nobody likes when the Smart Fridge or Smart TV they bought starts displaying ads 2 years later, or when their device becomes a useless brick because Google killed it like Stadia and Nest. Nobody likes Microsoft killing their not even that old devices with the new Windows 11 requirements and Windows 10 still sees very wide usage despite being EOL.
It is insane to argue people are fine with this. They are not. They are often ignorant/unaware of it until bites them, and far to often ignorant that they can do anything about it, but that is very different from being "fine" with it.
readyloaddollarsign@reddit
you're putting WAY too much faith in what the average person cares about computing devices. They don't care. They just want it to do what it does. Period. This is why it's been "The Year of the Linux Desktop" since 1999, probably before you were born.
General_Session_4450@reddit
I'm not putting any faith on the average user. They don't know what the trade-offs are or why a locked ecosystem will ultimately harm them.
I'm saying that the people who do know, but are still advocating for this because the "average user" doesn't need the power to control their own devices, should know better. If you think that there will still be any options left for you and the 5% of power users after all general consumer device have been locked down, then you're delusional.
The average user is also benefiting from open-source and the freedom to install whatever they please on their own devices, even if they never actually use any of it.
readyloaddollarsign@reddit
hey, you be you, run arch btw, and enjoy the blessings of freedom. No problem with that. But it's a tempest in a teacup.
PsyOmega@reddit
you're right
nobody outside of a tiny group of loud nerds cares. Locked down android/iOS/ipadOS are extremely popular.
matrixifyme@reddit
Agreed. Same with google removing the ability to sideload apps. Windows and Mac want to move toward only letting you install apps from the app store similar to IOS. Everything is locked down under the guise of 'security' and 'proprietary' and if we can't keep pretending its fine or we will lose access and freedom to our own technology!
vytah@reddit
Install. The proper word is install.
nikomo@reddit
Burnt-in per-console keys have been standard since 2005-2006, along with various mechanisms for ensuring the system is locked down all the way from start-up to running applications.
So yeah, they started cranking up the heat 20 years ago, just took them a while to get things to a point where it's not trivial to break the security.
DarkflowNZ@reddit
The PS3 OtherOS lasted, what, 5 minutes? We immediately used it to install a modded firmware and pirate games. I'm not at all surprised they're taking measures to prevent that. My understanding is that they take a loss on the hardware but expect to make it up in game sales
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Worth noting that all current PS3 models, even SuperSlims, have software only exploits that allow installing homebrew
lusuroculadestec@reddit
OtherOS was in place for a few years. It wasn't removed until the Slim and newer firmware was released.
The notable thing about the PS3 was that it wasn't hacked until after OtherOS was taken away. Everyone just used OtherOS as-is or put all their effort into trying to break out of the sandbox.
There was a great talk at the 27c3 conference that goes through the timeline and how the hack worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUGGJpn2_zY
nikomo@reddit
They're all finally making a profit on the hardware with the current generation, right at launch.
FluxUniversity@reddit
yeah cuz they bent over backwards to create custom hardware systems/chips that run on the cheapest known arms processors.
nikomo@reddit
Both PS5 and Xbox Series X/S are running AMD64.
a_library_socialist@reddit
Yes, for decades the only platform manufacturer that didn't lose on the box was Nintendo. Not sure if they still make a profit on Switch.
japzone@reddit
They lost money on the WiiU and 3DS, and so made sure the Switch made them money from the start.
FluxUniversity@reddit
This is increasingly becoming true of Windows.
benabrig@reddit
I mean I assumed something along those lines, but there’s nothing in the OP that talks about or suggests any of that. It’s our pre-conceived notions about that that lead us to an assumption about what he might mean. But there’s nothing in the post to suggest that, the only “this” on his post is “Valve Frame,” a picture that says it runs SteamOS, and a link. He could mean pretty much literally anything about the device by the original post, if he wants to have a discussion we should probably clarify what he wants to talk about
ecthiender@reddit
It's right there in the post. It's the last sentence. You highlighted the first part in your original comment and ignored the last part. That's the part that makes sense with the title.
benabrig@reddit
And you are ignoring the rest of the photo and link based on your assumption about his intent. There is nothing at all in the post to indicate he means that sentence. Again, my first thought when I saw that was along those lines, but I read the post again and I realized there is absolutely no indication at all thats what he meant and I made an assumption. I thought “could this be about something else?” and the answer is clearly yes, so I asked a clarifying question. The OP is really the only one who can clear this up, everyone else is just making an assumption.
Aiglos_@reddit
Why are you like this?
Proud_Raspberry_7997@reddit
They did one minute after you posted. Lol
It's a little bit below this one. They meant to highlight the last sentence.
EtiamTinciduntNullam@reddit
You've already answered yourself in your first comment - none of the things you've mentioned was the standard, owning machines used to be a standard, which you avoided for some reason.
x_lincoln_x@reddit
r/titlegore
JohnClark13@reddit
Either the person who wrote it is not a native English speaker, or they're a product of the American education system
perkited@reddit
Ill bet anyone 10$ that they will make more grammer mistakes then me with my American schooling. I wont loose.
keremimo@reddit
You forgot the /s :)
riffito@reddit
Well played!
That hurt to read, even with my English being poorly self-taught. :-D
whofriedmyrice@reddit
I think the notable update (and what I assumed OP was referencing) is the introduction of Arch (SteamOS) on ARM, which has never had official portings. ARM support was also introduced into Proton.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
I was remarking the last sentence should've maybe highlighted that.
benabrig@reddit
Thanks! I hope that Valve’s products are a nudge in that direction for lot of people. For a long time, consumers have not only not cared, but actively chosen less control over their devices. So it’s been a no-brainer from the manufacturer side, they end up with more money per customer in the locked-in version of things, plus the customers prefer it so they get more customers anyway. I think so many people see devices as a black box, “I bought this thing to do x, all I care about is if it does x.” Like with cars, driving auto transmissions feels terrible to me. The car doesn’t do what I want it to do. But most people saw the ability to control your drivetrain as a hindrance, and switched to an auto instead. Because they just want “a box I sit in that goes from point A to point B”
1337sp3ak@reddit
Damn 🙄
ares623@reddit
SteamPhone when. Mobile gaming is huge right?
Rikonardo@reddit
Funny enough, Frame contains basically everything needed for this to happen. They use same SoC as phones, they implemented support for running Android APKs on SteamOS, already did tons of work on wireless connectivity. Basically, only thing they need to make a phone is software, specifically adapting UI and GameScope for mobile form factor.
Major problem would be with apps outside of gaming, a lot of Android apps won’t run without Google Services, and many require Play Integrity. As for Linux native mobile apps - those are extremely rare and barely standardised. But if Valve manages to successfully sell a GMS-free phone that runs at least some Android apps, this can significantly disrupt Google efforts of locking down Android ecosystem.
Although, they first need a library of ARM native games. FEX is awesome, but on the phone every tiny bit of overhead matters
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Making a good UI? Thats the hardest part lol.
Second hardest is the proprietary peripheral hardware and drivers, touchscreens and sensors and high quality cameras, audio
danielv123@reddit
Another big one is drivers. I assume very few phone cameras, fingerprint scanners etc have driver support in steamOS. That seems like an issue that can be solved though.
FluxUniversity@reddit
how about a free phone first? a phone free of data brokers. a phone im allowed to run whoever apps i want on it
Can we get mobile freedom before mobile gaming, maybe?
danielv123@reddit
If its steam I guess it would happen at the same time
_scndry@reddit
This would make so much sense and it would be a total market disruptor. Imagine being able to play from your steam library natively on your phone. They already said that you basically could sideload APKs and install them on the frame. We are almost there. A good open linux phone would literally change the world.
GeneralDucky@reddit
Dude, if I can get an ARM based, Linux running phone, that’s open hardware…
pomcomic@reddit
..... dude. I haven't even thought of that, and no way it's not on Valve's radar.
larikang@reddit
With SteamOS being a fork of Arch, I wonder if this means Valve sponsorship for Arch ARM? Or ARM being folded into the Arch project?
CrazyKilla15@reddit
Likely. Valve has already helped Arch with the foundational infrastructure work required for Arch to support more Arch(itectures)
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1fssfow/why_valve_is_backing_arch_linux_explained_by_an/lpne5p0/?context=3
repocin@reddit
Exactly what I was also wondering. With the recent rise of ARM on various laptops, it might make sense for Arch to officially support it.
Either way, it's going to be very interesting to see what they've done with SteamOS on ARM.
archontwo@reddit
Arch on ARM has been around for a while.
The Pinebook Pro came with Manjaro.
ValorousGod@reddit
Arch Linux ARM isn't from Arch Linux though. Arch Linux itself is still only x86, so still no official ARM support.
Aperture_Kubi@reddit
It has been mentioned you can "sideload apks," so I wonder if/how Android is in its DNA.
larikang@reddit
I don't think so. It's using an Android emulator.
tuxkrusader@reddit
probably waydroid, as was talked about before
Hosein_Lavaei@reddit
Probably not waydroid, cause steamos doesn't support Wayland yet(at least through the desktop) unless it's done via gamescope in steam big picture mode itself?
tuxkrusader@reddit
um i literally have waydroid on my steam deck right now
Hosein_Lavaei@reddit
I don't own an steamdeck so I haven't tried. But I guess running KDE Wayland somehow and run it there? or run it with Gamescope from tty? Nothing else I can think of
tuxkrusader@reddit
it runs with a thing called 'cage'
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
Weird that SteamOS wouldn't support Wayland in “desktop mode”, given that KDE itself includes a Wayland compositor and has for quite some time.
kryptobolt200528@reddit
It's probably using one of the 2-3 various emulators/other OSS solutions to emulate Android that are already available...
ilep@reddit
You do know that Android is based on Linux, right? Valve worked with Google on getting Steam into Chromebooks and there have been multiple methods of running Android software on Linux.
Nightlark192@reddit
The more I see about the Steam Frame, the more I want one. Might even be nice for getting some work done while traveling when paired with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard.
northrupthebandgeek@reddit
I'm very tempted to get one, as an existing Valve Index owner. Big thing I'm curious about is whether I can use the Index controllers with the Frame; I really dig the finger-tracking features and the handstraps.
ansibleloop@reddit
I've been saying for years that I eventually want to replace my triple monitor setup with a VR headset
I can have as many monitors as I like at that point
tuxbass@reddit
If the number of monitors is the limiting factor in your workflow, I have some bad news for ya.
ratliker62@reddit
A wireless VR headset that's built with steam in mind and isn't owned by Meta? Sign me up
ihexx@reddit
and doesn't lock you down to an 'ipad' UI like vision pro
JesusXD88@reddit
And runs Arch Linux under the hood
Aperture_Kubi@reddit
I think we'll see more innovation in the AR space with this than Apple's headset.
I've been thinking of getting one of those AR glasses for 2d gaming and productivity, this will be even more interesting.
vemundveien@reddit
Why do you think this will do much for AR? Like, I want this to succeed since it is kind of everything I want out of a VR headset but both Quest 3 and Vision Pro seem to have more actual AR features. B/W pass through camera alone is a big message that AR is not a focus at all.
Aperture_Kubi@reddit
It's a big hardware release with an open ecosystem. People can easily throw any idea they want at it. Even if the first AR stuff is just virtual multiple monitors with camera passthru so you can still see your normal accessories (keyboard, mouse, etc).
GlenMerlin@reddit
I don't think AR will be a functional part of the frame. The cameras are monochrome not color.
Sure it would technically work but it won't be nearly the same kind of experience.
kuroimakina@reddit
While true, it does have a MIPI interface on it for connecting other peripherals - such as other cameras. The LTT video about it shows it has a lot of modding potential. So, if someone wanted to, they could easily use a better camera that way
knome@reddit
how long until someone sets up their gabecube so they can have a virtual space composed of a massive 3d tiling window manager, lol
TheJackiMonster@reddit
You also have multiple cameras. So depending on the specs and their orientation, it might even work for hand tracking.
Not officially stated yet but there probably is a way to let it do things which aren't advertised.
LeChantaux@reddit
https://media1.tenor.com/m/sym0G74VpCAAAAAC/rick-and-morty-this-guy-gets-it.gif
dst1980@reddit
In addition, they also announced the Steam Machine.
Source: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
RefuseAbject187@reddit
should have been called Steam Engine 🚂
nezzled@reddit
The steam machine just came out and they already announced steam machine: source??? Their output is crazy wtf
fnordx@reddit
You mean the Gabecube?
japzone@reddit
As the prophecy foretold!
LordRybec@reddit
I had a digital art class where one assignment was to make a poster, following good design principles. I made a poster promoting Linux, with a phrase something like, "Control your computer, don't let it control you." That was in the mid-2000s. How much more apt that has become since then.
danielv123@reddit
I wonder if it would be possible to run SteamOS on other headsets, like the Samsung XR thing. I mean, its a very similar SOC? I assume it would still be a lot of work to get tracking and passthrough to work but it would be sick.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
If not it's very likely not gonna be Valve's fault but rather the manufacturer's
rresende@reddit
What standard? Valve invested a lot of time and money on SteamOS. It's obvious they're gonna use it for the next couple of years. But don't expect this be a game changer for the Linux world, gamers are a small percentage.
Loddio@reddit
What the fuck are you smoking? This is one of the biggest game changer moves for linux ever
rresende@reddit
It's not. A game changer was a brand like Asus, HP , Lenovo etc released their laptops on stores with Linux.
Gamers are a small percentage of users, and most of them they don't know what Linux or Windows are.
Loddio@reddit
Ever checked the Linux market share skyrocketing due to Steamdeck? No?
This is 2 whole new devices announced that ship with Linux, from a huge company like Valve that's has shown more interest and spent more money on Linux ever... This has happened once in a blue moon.
Interesting-Injury87@reddit
it skyrocketed... in relative terms, it went from 1% before the steamdeck to 3% today? with ARCH linux(which i assume steamos reports itself) being at 0.31% itself?
Like yes, you can make EVERYTHING make seem gigantic if you talk about an increase of 200%.... till you realize that this means you now have 3 popcorn kernels instead of 1 while windows 11 alone(the thing everyone claims "noone wants to use") sits at 64% according to steams OWN hardware survey
Unless the Steamcube is gonna be competitive priced TO CONSOLES, it wont have the huge absolute impact you pretend its gonna have. and most signs point towards Valve pricing it more towards a PC then a Console... which means it wont be competitive.
And unless Steam is releasing the hardware in proper retail stores with actual advertisement outside the bubble, it wont attract many casual costumers.
People claimed the "Steamdeck would revolutionize the handheld market" and "kill the switch".... yet here we are, 3 years later and the Switch 2 outsold the LIFETIME performance of the steamdeck in half a year. People claimed the Steamdeck would force AAA developers to make their anti cheat work for linux... and here we are. People claimed a lot of things in relation to SteamOS, almost non of which came true.
I own a steamdeck, i use SteamOS, its nowhere near as "mature" as it needs to be to be a properly functional replacement for the average console gamer or even the average PC gamer and the Steamcube wont be any different in that regard as it uses the same OS, and similarly forgoes upgradebility beyond the bare minimum(ram and storage)
Loddio@reddit
1% to 3% is a 300% increase.... Yes... it skyrocketed
Interesting-Injury87@reddit
As I said — yes, in relative terms. But that doesn’t actually mean much in the broader context. A new product going from 0% to 0.1% technically experiences an infinite-percent increase, yet we’d all agree that 0.1% is still minuscule in the market it entered, right?
It’s disingenuous to frame “1% to 3%” as anything other than small when discussing overall market impact. That’s like a headline saying “violent crime up 300%!” — only for you to read the fine print and find out it went from 1 case to 4. Sure, that’s a technical 300% rise, but it’s still a tiny number in absolute terms.
For perspective: in 2022, Linux sat at around 1.45% on Steam’s survey, and Windows 11 was at 28%. Fast-forward to now — Windows 11 is at roughly 64%. That’s also about a 250% relative increase, but the absolute growth dwarfs Linux entirely. Windows 11 gained roughly 36 percentage points of share; Linux gained about 1.5. Even if we we give the benefit to steam OS and round it to 2 percentage points, thats still only a increase of 200%(it grew to 300% its original user base, it thus increased by 200%)
Even if we assume every bit of Linux growth is from SteamOS, that’s still a rounding error next to Windows’ gains. The absolute numbers are what matter for real-world influence — and right now, Linux’s growth is impressive for enthusiasts but negligible for the larger market.
And that’s before you even consider the user experience gap. SteamOS still isn’t remotely as mature, streamlined, or plug-and-play as console operating systems. It’s fantastic for tinkerers, but for an average user? It still needs too much manual tweaking to be a true living-room alternative. Valve has made huge strides, but until SteamOS can deliver a console-like “it just works” experience across all games and hardware, it’s never going to replace Windows or the major consoles for most people.
At the end of the day, investors, developers, and publishers don’t look at “percent growth,” they look at install base. That’s what determines what platforms get ports, funding, and long-term support. A niche system doubling or tripling its user share sounds dramatic — but when you’re growing from a speck to a slightly larger speck, it’s not a “market shift,” it’s a footnote.
Time_Way_6670@reddit
Gamers… don’t know Windows? What are you talking about? If they use a computer they know that it runs Windows.
And btw, Valve’s adoption of Linux for the Steam Deck has already been a massive boon for the Linux community. Six years ago, you couldn’t play the latest AAA games on a Linux desktop… not easily anyway. Now, you can download a game and press PLAY and it works. That’s incredible progress.
Desktop market share in general is lower than it was 15 years ago, the average person uses their phone or tablet exclusively. That means that a good chunk of desktop market share are gamers. So yes, Valve preinstalling Linux on their hardware is a big deal for desktop Linux.
And btw… Lenovo and Dell have been selling machines preinstalled with Ubuntu and Fedora for years. That doesn’t always translate to market share, because of how lackluster software support was on those operating systems.
rresende@reddit
My old job was selling computers, most of the "gamers" users doesn't know what is windows 10 or 11. They don't care about that; they only care about playing the games. lol.
Time_Way_6670@reddit
Yes, that's why SteamOS works so well on the Steam Deck... it just plays the games. It just works. Why this cube is a little different, though, is that it's being advertised as both a TV game console and a PC. So, people will definitely buy it to use as a PC, one that has Linux installed on it.
Proud_Raspberry_7997@reddit
That's arguably because Windows 10 and 11 look nigh identical par for a few minute decorational changes.
"Oh good point, Bill... This Windows 11 DOES have the blue squares in the middle of the bar now. Yeah!"
That's not a gripe against gamers, that's a showcase of how bland and the same each "new" product from Microsoft has been.
geeshta@reddit (OP)
> What the fuck are you smoking?
I'm noticing this is a rather common reaction under this post
Traditional_Hat3506@reddit
Gamers are also a very loud percentage and if their favorite games or software don't work they'll quickly start blaming Linux. Valve advertises the steam machine as "made for AAA" compared to the deck which might bring a new kind of audience... I just hope they are in contact with studios about the whole anti cheat situation (or have enough cash to perhaps pay them to do so).
rresende@reddit
They have to work with studios, not only for anti cheat situations, but the hardware. 8GB vram in 2026...ufff they need to convince the devs optimize their games to Steam machines, the same way they do to consoles.
And yes gamers are loud, but a lot of them don't know what is an OS, or what Linux is. They're gonna start blaming devs.
GOKOP@reddit
This new Steam Machine is coming with a "steam machine verified" mark just like the SteamDeck one. Studios are already getting their games verified for the Deck eagerly so it might work
sleeper4gent@reddit
steam deck verified dosent really guarantee much , there are a lot of games steam deck verified that run like poo
Traditional_Hat3506@reddit
I don't know... Valve's marketing for the machine is a bit overpromising. AAA games AND a workstation showing blender. Something's telling me that this subreddit will be full of 10k word posts about "FL studio and plugins don't work", "Adobe premiere?" Etc. Not that we don't get them a lot already but this might amplify them.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Bizarre that your metric for "overpromising" is... ordinary things that a cheap Linux PC is perfectly capable of.
Traditional_Hat3506@reddit
For you and I, it's not overpromising, we both know to what extend linux is compatible with windows and we both know how to make things work, workarouds, tricks, debug issues and where to ask for help.
No, getting flstudio with plugins and the adobe suite is not as easy and it's way too much info for a newcomer to grasp right away. Valve is promising a workstation without mentioning the whole journey it is to actually get professional software outside of blender, krita and IDEs to run. I don't think I'm being unfair on the overpromising critique but I'm happy to agree to disagree.
Proud_Raspberry_7997@reddit
I dunno, it just fills a different category of workstation, to me.
I use my current Steam Deck as a fantastic school laptop, it runs Cisco PacketTracer, WireShark, Boxes for VMs (including of Windows)...
Sure, I don't use Adobe products, if I did I wouldn't be buying a Steam Machine, no, lol.
On the other hand, like you said, a lot of the programs they displayed... Can be retrieved straight from the Discover Store. Even Windows has troubles with it's store to this day.
I guess it depends on how you define workstation... But I can definitely see how it could be confusing for those not in the know.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Please do not lump me in with whatever you're claiming to be.
These are not normal things that normal people do regularly. "Installing Wine to see if it works" isn't "way too much info for a newcomer".
In 2025, Windows-exclusive anti-Linux garbage isn't "professional" to begin with.
Time_Way_6670@reddit
I get what you’re saying, but perhaps the increasing demand will lead to actual Linux ports of FL Studio, etc.
I doubt Adobe apps will ever get ported. They are garbage. One can hope for a Flatpak version of Resolve though.. the Linux version that exists is a little complicated to setup but it works extremely well.
FattyDrake@reddit
I think the anti-cheat might be a Monkey's Paw type situation. Judging by what anti-cheat devs talk about, it would probably end up being something like a signed kernel by Valve and anti-cheat modules that work with it. Meaning any kernel other than Valve's would be very difficult to get to work if at all. I.e. if you want to play many online games you use SteamOS, no other distro. Unless companies fundamentally change how they approach anti-cheat. (Which wouldn't be a bad thing, but they seem set on the low level deterrents.)
ChronicallySilly@reddit
Personally that's fine with me. I don't use custom kernels and I bet most people dont. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, a signed kernel sounds fine to me if I can have the option to play my games.
Yes kernel level anti-cheat sucks but privacy/security is a spectrum, and running i.e. Valorant on Linux is a hell of a lot better than Valorant on Windows
RelativeIce6171@reddit
I think it would cause problems for arch-based systems (and others) that won't provide signed kernels, and it's a headache to set up by yourself
ChronicallySilly@reddit
That would definitely suck, but at the same time they'd be in no different a situation than they are today in all honesty. Meanwhile the Linux ecosystem would grow, so overall its a net benefit even if you can't/won't use signed kernels
ratliker62@reddit
Gaming is the most popular form of entertainment out there right now, especially among young people. And it's safe to say a lot of people that are really into their PC, enough to know what Linux is and entertain the idea of switching, are likely gamers.
Historical-Camel4517@reddit
You mean the machine made to be only for gaming that is running Linux and made by a company that many people trust including non Linux people won’t boost Linux users. Makes sense
SEI_JAKU@reddit
It's getting a little tiring to see the "gamers are a small percentage of users" argument, itself based on absolutely nothing, but especially when video games are propping up the entire desktop PC market and most of the laptop market.
FattyDrake@reddit
Even if small, gaming is big business tho, more money than Hollywood and related entertainment. Plus it's actually consumer focused, not B2B. Regardless, it tangentially helps Linux desktop as a whole.
Actes@reddit
Based Valve moment
okurokonfire@reddit
Maybe they should make, just hear me out, a phone?
Linux gaming started to rise after Valve decided to seriously work on it. Maybe Linux phones would see the same rise?
_scndry@reddit
Imagine this being the beginning of a beautiful history of linux phones ଘ(੭ˊᵕˋ)੭
Mitrydates@reddit
I wonder if SteamOs will let me use SoundBlaster. I can't properly run it on Mint and Ubuntu.
MoonQube@reddit
Gimme steamOS for all computers
FedMellow@reddit
holy shit
Party_Ad_863@reddit
I wonder when the release of Steam Os for desktop
LoczekLoczekLok@reddit
But That cube does NOT have usb4/tb only usb-c3.2...
geeshta@reddit (OP)
noted
TapAggressive9530@reddit
Games are a waste of time. Read a good book and educate yourself
Lorian0x7@reddit
Reading books it's actually a more passive activity that doesn't stimulate the brain as much of a videogame that requires lots more mental energy, including the same used for books since you have to read or listen dialogues and it doesn't stop there since you have to respond in a smart way to move the conversation where you want and get the information you need. You also need space awareness, ability to navigate maps, strategy, reflexes, inventory management skills, be able to adapt to different paradigms, critical thinking, puzzle solving capabilities and much more...
can a book gives you all this? No.
keremimo@reddit
I do both, you are not as marginal as you think.
Heck, learned English thanks to games to be able to read books in it.
Enough to be able to say that you are just a boring snob.
core-x-bit@reddit
I've read over a dozen books this year and I play games. Hell some games are as long as books with all the dialogue. Unless you mean we can only read educational, non fiction books. In that case, you sound boring as hell.
JuanAy@reddit
Listening to this guy is a waste of time.
Go do whatever you want to do with your time. It’s your life, not his :).
mesispis@reddit
gamers are loud do if we will have a lot of gamers on Linux that want other programs, we have bigger chance to get them
dumbasPL@reddit
So, how long are we giving it until somebody ports the OS from the quest, and how long till it's usable. Because no matter how stupid this sounds, I feel like somebody will try anyway.
spartan195@reddit
I’m so exited for FEX, an official SteamOS or ARM is a HUGE step, that will change everything, from desktop and laptops PCs to the next SteamDeck version being based on ARM. That opens so many doors
Enlitenkanin@reddit
The Steam Frame's ARM architecture with x86 translation is a smart move for compatibility and battery life. It could really push Linux gaming forward on mobile devices.
Indolent_Bard@reddit
It was always the x86 standard, never the arm standard.
_PelosNecios_@reddit
so now we must use WC when referring to a computer to convey it is not under personal control but windows
dinominant@reddit
Sold.
FluffyWarHampster@reddit
Calve really came out swinging with this unveil. This was a declaration of war for them in the best way possible.
Time_Way_6670@reddit
Gamers… don’t know Windows? What are you talking about? If they use a computer they know that it runs Windows.
And btw, Valve’s adoption of Linux for the Steam Deck has already been a massive boon for the Linux community. Six years ago, you couldn’t play the latest AAA games on a Linux desktop… not easily anyway. Now, you can download a game and press PLAY and it works. That’s incredible progress.
Desktop market share in general is lower than it was 15 years ago, the average person uses their phone or tablet exclusively. That means that a good chunk of desktop market share are gamers. So yes, Valve preinstalling Linux on their hardware is a big deal for desktop Linux.
And btw… Lenovo and Dell have been selling machines preinstalled with Ubuntu and Fedora for years. That doesn’t always translate to market share, because of how lackluster software support was on those operating systems.
Historical-Camel4517@reddit
It gets people into Linux and pc’s perfect
mrlinkwii@reddit
its not standard