An open source funding-revolution is very well possible! Bear with me...
Posted by Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 51 comments
TL;DR https://youtu.be/IWmDZUtTzo8
Recently the Python Software Foundation denied a $1.5M grant from the U.S. government in order to keep their integrity. They turned down the biggest cash influx in their history. Cheers for that! It was kind of a wake up call for me, asking myself: How do I see open source working out for me and what can I do for the community?
Open source has got an obvious problem: lack of funding. And although donations exist, they are inefficient. With open source foundations such as the Mozilla Foundation or the Python Software Foundation being offered or actually taking investments from private companies or other bodies, often with strings attached, open source is running the risk of losing its independence and ultimately its openness. So what can we do?
Let me ask you another question: Why choose GitHub over Codeberg? Why choose Microsoft Office over OnlyOffice? Why choose proprietary over open source? Although there are many other reasons, private companies mostly get people hooked with convenience. This is often reflected by players like Microsoft or Google creating enormous software ecosystems inside which you as a user can traverse easily.
So convenience is a huge driver. Let's keep that in mind. People choose convenience, at least the mainstream, with priority and are willing to pay a price for it, fair enough. Private companies also provide closed ecosystems and support, which has got a value. I am not talking about that. All of that also means, that people generally have got and will spend money for software products.
So what is the proposition here? I am asking the entire open source community to endorse in a convenience of donation method which I call "downstream donations", for now. My point is, that donating to a single entity of the open source community is not an impact on the community as hole. Although almost every project in the community relies on other libraries and tools, those do usually not benefit from their forks. It is not a problem of funding, but a problem of liquidity in the system, partly due to a lack of convenience which developers, users and foundations can easily change with the method proposed here. It is an honor-based system that will distribute funding throughout the entire open source landscape and reward the most appreciated projects fairly and rightfully so.
To give you an example of this practice, let me show you the 'README.md' of my project 'morPy'. What I am doing is to provide a clear statement of my downstream donations, QR codes for convenient payment and provide summaries of donations and downstream payments on my homepage. I will also provide account statements, because transparency builds trust. This way, donations are just a qr-code scan away and will benefit other developers, in this case the ones morPy depends on. Nobody is obligated to pay and who can't will be covered by the community. This was always the spirit of open source. What we as developers have got to do is live this practice. Set up your 'readme'-file and homepage accordingly or miss out on being a receiver and a guarantor of the dependencies you choose. People can donate conveniently and know that their donation is in one way or another distributed throughout the community. They do not have to feel obligated for the next thing they make use of.
And finally, the icing on the cake. We urgently need a software license tailored for these downstream donations. One which explicitly allows for commercial use, but obligates to a fraction of the earnings in downstream donations. And I mean these really need to be a fraction, so companies can still benefit from open source as an inexpensive base, all the while open source stays independent and will be far better funded. The license also has to cover for the obligations of the developer: transparent downstream commitments and the correct implementation of the downstream donation method, which is still an individual setup. Developers also have to make sure, they actually can make a difference of donations received in case they are maintaining more than one project in order for the downstream to work in the way intended.
This will put big tech, and all private endeavours therefore, back in their place. Either locked outside the borders of open source or within compliance. Since developers are enticed to make use of the new license in order to receive and contribute, commercial products will be rewarded with license simplicity and license security. For every non-commercial contributor it is purely honor based, convenient and self-sufficient for open source. The base principle is freedom, so a developer may choose not to downstream at all, but may face the penalty of others turning down a donation opportunity to this particular project. It is a chaotic yet robust and stable principle. Bad actors will likely be detected early, since the license demands transparency.
Think of the possibilities! Companies with great talent but lack of projects may decide to have their talent work on open source projects for an additional revenue stream rather than laying off. Developers publishing via F-Droid could feed the system with liquidity. A person in a poor country may decide to become a developer rather than an employee in a scam call center due to newly found opportunities.
And what if this kind of contribution is leveraged within Wikipedia? They would probably not have to raise as much money themselves and users would benefit from the convenience donations to articles/editors of their choice. Just a thought, though.
We are talking about an engine of innovation and stability, generating taxes as a side effect. For me, it's got all the best principles of commerce baked in. An additional comment on entire teams: you will have to figure out the fair distribution of funding within the team yourself. But that's the idea of democracy: messy but self-sufficiently correcting.
I am calling out to the open source foundations to create a new license which will manifest this new, democratic and inclusive strategy of open source. Please consider this strategy seriously. If you like this idea, implement it and spread it. Have people know about it. It is inexpensive and can be hosted from a projects 'readme'-file alone, you do not need a homepage. It can - and I hope it will - change the world. This is the trickle down effect everybody deserves.
DISCLAIMER Do not be tempted to donate to my project. I am absolutely fine. This is about the open source landscape entirely!
MarzipanEven7336@reddit
Lack of funding? What fucking planet are you on? Like 99% of the world is running Linux. Servers, cellphones, printers, cars, like literally all around you. There fucking loads of cash pouring into the open source world.
alluran@reddit
And how many of those are contributing $$$ to open source...
How many are just using the product, raising a bunch of support tickets when it doesn't perfectly match their use case, and contributing nothing?
Open Source projects have raised this numerous times before.
rbmorse@reddit
quote: And finally, the icing on the cake. We urgently need a software license tailored for these downstream donations. One which explicitly allows for commercial use, but obligates to a fraction of the earnings in downstream donations. unquote
How would you enforce this?
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
"I am calling out to the open source foundations to create a new license which will manifest this"
OliM9696@reddit
I mean... How can you tell how much NAPS2 helps a business over them also using Blender.
It's an impossible calculation,
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
I see the flaw of the original post and idea. Please give me a bit of time to fix what I mosunderstood from the start. I will come up with a purely voluntary practice.
CyclopsRock@reddit
If people wanted to donate to 100 projects, they could. Why do you assume that, when they choose to donate to one, what they really want to do is donate to a bunch of others?
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
because convenience matters and it also makes sure that the money that would go to the projects that those projects you go depend upon.
We need more money in some of the foundational things as well rather than just the user facing stuff.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Yes, so I was thinking: how can for instance PSF and codeberg be funded through me and although I donate, I thought forwarding donations is a responsible think to do.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
i'm not that familiar with either of those projects specifically and the wording of your question is a little vague to me. Can you rephrase?
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
I will, please give me a bit of time 🙏
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Convenience and the insurance (licens) it will be transferred further
CyclopsRock@reddit
...
Are you a human?
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Wtf
the_bighi@reddit
OP is a damn bot.
Pedka2@reddit
https://i.imgflip.com/8wk25h.jpg
cgoldberg@reddit
For a solution to open source funding, the license you are suggesting is absolutely in no way compatible with open source.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Please elaborate. Which part exactly? It stays open and and funding from companies shall be dynamic to not be a burden.
cgoldberg@reddit
Where you obligate a percentage of earnings. A license with that restriction is by definition not open source.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Then let's find something else for that. I am not a lawyer or something. In any case, I like the idea of sharing my donations received. Even if nothing ever materializes, it facilitates community.
cgoldberg@reddit
That's fine that you like sharing donations you receive, but forcing others to do the same makes it explicitly not open source. I also think it would kill adoption rather than facilitate community.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
The interface to companies is a missing link, I agree.
cgoldberg@reddit
I think the currently available licenses are already simple and work great.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
It's wrong the way I got it out, I agree and will make the adjustments necessary throughout the day.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Thank you for your opinion 🙏
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
open source as defined by OSI has a strict definition that prohibits such a license from being considered open source. It can also not restrict on fields of endeavor either.
Also, almost none of the common distributions will iinclude software under such a license into their main repositories since it would no longer be considered capital F Free software.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
That is interesting. Well, I guess that concludes it, then. So there will be no obligations whatsoever.
What do you think of the practice of forwarding donations? Is that not a start?
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
I don't know what you mean by "forwarding donations"
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
I mean, corporates usually donate to the projects they use, the reason why some aren't funded is because they use alternatives or they have their own alternative.
Firefox is dying and Chromium is the popular one, which company would donate to firefox if they don't use It?
If you check at Linux, GNOME, KDE, any open source popular library or distros. They get money from companies because these companies also need the projects to exist.
However I don't think your idea is bad. If I ever create an open source project, some of the fundings would probably go to the software I deppend on
perkited@reddit
I think you're looking for something like the Post Open license, but just know that's is not considered a valid open source license (due to the restrictions it imposes).
I personally think this type of license will ultimately fail, since the vast majority of businesses aren't going to put themselves a position where some entity is extracting money from them and not providing any other value. They'll either use valid open source software or buy proprietary software from a vendor who provides support and who they can somewhat push around (they are the customer).
I've been through some enterprise-wide purges before (Oracle Java being the most recent) to know that businesses really don't like unknowns (like unexpected licensing cost increases) and situations where they don't have some kind of leverage. I just can't see any medium-large businesses willing to put themselves into this kind of position, unless they're doing it for building goodwill, publicity, etc.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Thank you very much for the insight! It was my goal though, to reduce or remove the unknowns. I have not figured out how to have companies pay into the community and I understand a jurisdicial frame that works for everybody is still missing.
I am still convinced of the exercise in downstream donations, though. And I am not aware of a conflict with current open source practices or laws.
perkited@reddit
Yes, donations are fine. There shouldn't be any issues if it's voluntary, but when the license/contract makes it mandatory (with legal repercussions if they don't donate) that stops the license from being open source.
It would need to meet all these criteria in order to be considered an open source license. The Post Open license was started by Bruce Perens, one of the founders of the open source movement, so he understands those types of limitations/regulations (in the Post Open license) don't meet the requirements to be considered open source.
DrBaronVonEvil@reddit
Part of any initiative to bottleneck financial and other material resources through to all of the developers and companies that make this community possible will likely need to be in control of the primary access points to Linux as a whole.
The reality is that the average person who is interested in Linux is going to search "Linux" in Google, Social Media, Online Stores, etc.
When they do, we need someone there that has ownership of profiles and site domain names who gives you roughly the same experience Apple or Microsoft does for a user.
Linux.org and Linux.com need to be a place where you get sizzle reels of cool shit we do and several pages dedicated to shopping for PCs and Mobile devices. We also need it to have a generalized support section for when things break and a place to buy things directly from the org that maintains this service.
There should also be a Linux social media page that acts as official mouthpiece for the community. Doesn't have to be exciting or all that opinionated, but it does need to call out big news in the community and spotlight other creators making cool Linux content.
Maybe it's not a new license, but donations could be done through either an existing foundation ready to take on this work, or with a new one that would be setup to filter out cash and resources to projects and initiatives. FSF or Linux Foundation could be the ones to do it, but neither seem willing or able to make that happen at this time.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Thank you. Also, I realize I chose the wrong subreddit. People here seem to focus on the linux landscape alone.
mmcgrath@reddit
Resident pointy-haired boss here who is goign to attempt poorly to wear two hats at the same time here.
In my opinion, the only viable way to approach this is economically. It cannot be charitable, especially if it is to be relied upon in the long term. The fact is, even in enterprises, many want to be "part of the solution". Relying on open source compels them to participate, either by buying support or through other donations. It's not the only reason, often not even the main reason, but it's *a* contributing factor why a business might pay Red Hat, SUSE, or Canonical.
But there's a flip side to that coin, people who have these sort of "one-way" relationships with open source. Simple users who can "do it themselves". Obviously, there's a place for them as well but it seems like normalizing the behaviors of Red Hat, SUSE, and Canonical is the way we want to go. They are business engines where enterprise money goes in and pays for engineers to participate in those upstreams and foundations. There's also plenty of companies that have engineers that work on Open Source (think Intel, IBM, there's a whole and growing list).
If you want more money pumped into open source, you need more Red Hats, SUSEs, and Canonicals, and you need to normalize contributions from the rest. You then need to speak out against businesses that consume open source, make a profit, but then nothing comes back.
So why doesn't that happen?
The business side of Open Source remains unsavory, with both sides regularly butting heads, pointing fingers at corporate greed or "hippy engineers" or whatever. The fact is, businesses are already successful without Open Source. Businesses do not need Open Source. So we need to meet them where they are. But when a business that uses Open Source tries to protect itself in any way, the "community" loses its mind and forgets that businesses are an important part of that economic engine that pays developers. And every time that happens, we are basically sending a red flag out that says "Open Source is not business friendly" which only limits Open Source reach and Potential.
FattyDrake@reddit
That sounds reasonable from a business to business perspective, but not so much for regular desktop users. Although I've seen it said by others there's no money in the Linux desktop (likely the honest answer.)
Like, I don't care much about FreeIPA or Ansible or whatnot. I care about Krita, Blender, and other end-user desktop apps. (I do have monthly donations set up for both, but that falls under the charitable part.) So yeah, there's billions flowing for enterprise business FOSS, but relatively infinitesimal for regular non-enterprise desktop usage. I guess the closest recently is Valve funding development on Proton and projects related to the Steam Deck which tangentially benefit desktop Linux users.
So while there's a playbook for handling this economically for enterprise business, what's a good way to handle it for daily desktop usage and non-enterprise markets? Is focusing on making a distro and setting up support contacts the way to go, like the three companies you mentioned?
I guess if someone had figured that out by now we'd see it.
Closest feasible thing I can see is like a reverse hackerone where people pledge towards bounties to have features and bugs worked on, instead of trying to break things. But I'm not sure if a kickstarter analog still falls under "charitable."
ancientstephanie@reddit
The playbook for handling this for enterprises isn't particularly good, and a lot of potential funding is being lost because of it.
In particular "trapdoor" pricing schemes for enterprise licensing are leaving a lot of potential revenue on the table - if your product is free for the first 50 users, but as soon as I hit 51 users, I'm having to buy 51 licenses at $6 per user per month, I'm running away to a competing product long before I hit 50% of the free licenses, or I'm using the fully open source version even if I have to shoehorn it in to my use case.
Same thing applies if your enterprise product is just a glorified SSO tax.
Instead of these predatory models, give enterprise and SMB customers a wide range of options for how they want to buy service, support, and features that actually add value, and a choice of pricing models that includes discounted prepaid support time for your community edition, a discount on future migration support to the enterprise license or a LTS edition - things that can be an easy sale for an a business customer of any size.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Seems fair!
mmcgrath@reddit
I think this is an excellent take, BTW. I'm on the "there's not much money in the Linux desktop" bandwagon. It's not zero, but we're far from threatening Apple's dominance. At Red Hat, we've focused on the workstation side of things (which is a niche part of desktop) and it has been profitable. If we really want to juice things in the desktop, I think we (the collective community) need to come together on an opinionated approach. Today we have divided the scarce talent and resources we have. It wasn't that long ago that I would have been shouting "Open Source is about choice!" But these days I think we're dividing our focus and hurting ourselves in the long run.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
The biggest point I am making is, that companies will bring money into the community. That is literally the biggest point.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
Just another note:
I am not saying in any way that open source can compete or remotely provide the benefits closed ecosystems of large corporations have.
I do claim however, that a network of same licenses with transparent funneling of donations is an exercise, that will lead to a much better funding.
DFS_0019287@reddit
Wut???
Open-source is out-competing "large corporations" and providing far more benefits than their enshittified garbage.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
What I meant was support and a closed ecosystem. I don't see open source competing there. Or competing for any matter. Open Source is an important base is the way I see it.
DFS_0019287@reddit
It's not entirely obvious to me that this is a problem. For decades, Free Software developers have produced fantastic software with very little funding. There are many reasons apart from financial ones why people might choose to write Free Software. As an example, I've been working on a Free Software project for over 30 (!!) years. And while I have had a few donations, they have not come anywhere near close to covering what it would have cost to write the software in a traditional proprietary model.
I didn't.
I didn't (I chose LibreOffice.)
I didn't and I don't.
Such a license would ensure that the software would never be used for commercial purposes. And there are so many other problems... who would audit the commercial users to ensure they're honest? If a commercial user makes use of 75 different libraries (created by 75 different developers) with this license, who would track where the donations go? How much would each library be given?
A solution to this problem already exists: Dual-licensing. The software is freely usable if your product is open-source; if it's not, then you have to negotiate a standard proprietary license.
Suspicious_Pain7866@reddit (OP)
About auditing: well, commercial use would be able to abuse but risk lawsuits in the future. Anyway, I see the amount of backlash. Whatever was stuck in mind is out now and it seems it was an uneducated idea. However, thanks for getting into the discussion.
Muse_Hunter_Relma@reddit
Government grants are probably the way to go. They do so with scientific research; and since no company wants to invest in the common good for an unknown payoff, its really the only viable method of funding for many.
Open-source too, is a common good commodity with little private payoff and lends itself well to being funded by taxes.
The Python foundation turned down the grant because it had some Trump Administration anti-DEI stipulations (which in practice means they could declare anything they didn't like as too DEI) and Python is far too important to many countries to be compromised by the whims of a borderline authoritarian government.
When a more stable Administration is in power taking such a grant would be far more prudent.
guitcastro@reddit
Open Source should be funded by govermnents
blvsh@reddit
"in order to keep their integrity."
Yeah right
sloomy-santana@reddit
I did not know that codeberg existed. Thanks for making me aware, will be using it from now on. Github's insistance on AI tools never sat right with me
NGRhodes@reddit
The idea’s built on good intent, but intent isn’t infrastructure. It tries to fix the open source funding gap with trust, visibility, and moral obligation instead of enforceable systems. That doesn't scale.
Without a verified network to move and audit money, it fails instantly. You can’t trace thousands of dependencies or automate micro donations globally without licensed payment rails, AML compliance, and proper bookkeeping.
Legally, it falls apart.
OSI and FSF rules forbid licenses that require payment or restrict use, so a fractional donation clause isn’t open source and breaks GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache compatibility.
Charities and research bodies can’t redistribute funds. Their grant and fiduciary terms block it.
Corporate contracts can't attach royalties without breaking procurement law.
Cross border payments trigger tax, AML, and data protection laws that no individual dev can meet.
Even if you somehow clear that, you have no mechanism to ensure fairness. Developers inflate dependency chains to chase revenue. Abandoned projects still collect. Fraud creeps in through fake forks and circular transfers. The honest lose first.
Then the borders break it again. Every country redefines donations, income, and taxation. Transparency clashes with GDPR. Any system that holds or routes money becomes a regulated payment service. The moment value moves, you need licensing, audits, and identity verification.
Blockchain doesn’t solve it either. It can automate flow but not compliance or fairness. Volatility, spoofing, and tax exposure stay. You just replace the bank with a protocol and inherit the same system costs, harder to fix.
The heart’s right. Developers deserve sustainable funding, but it ignores law, scale, and human behavior. It mistakes transparency for integrity and goodwill for architecture.
Fairness has to be engineered into the system itself, not declared in a README. Until money moves as openly, verifiably, and legally as code, nothing changes.
NGRhodes@reddit
The idea’s built on good intent, but intent isn’t infrastructure. It tries to fix the open source funding gap with trust, visibility, and moral obligation instead of enforceable systems. That doesn't scale.
Without a verified network to move and audit money, it fails instantly. You can’t trace thousands of dependencies or automate micro donations globally without licensed payment rails, AML compliance, and proper bookkeeping.
Legally, it falls apart.
OSI and FSF rules forbid licenses that require payment or restrict use, so a fractional donation clause isn’t open source and breaks GPL, MIT, BSD, and Apache compatibility.
Charities and research bodies can’t redistribute funds. Their grant and fiduciary terms block it.
Corporate contracts can't attach royalties without breaking procurement law.
Cross border payments trigger tax, AML, and data protection laws that no individual dev can meet.
Even if you somehow clear that, you have no mechanism to ensure fairness. Developers inflate dependency chains to chase revenue. Abandoned projects still collect. Fraud creeps in through fake forks and circular transfers. The honest lose first.
Then the borders break it again. Every country redefines donations, income, and taxation. Transparency clashes with GDPR. Any system that holds or routes money becomes a regulated payment service. The moment value moves, you need licensing, audits, and identity verification.
Blockchain doesn’t solve it either. It can automate flow but not compliance or fairness. Volatility, spoofing, and tax exposure stay. You just replace the bank with a protocol and inherit the same system costs, harder to fix.
The heart’s right. Developers deserve sustainable funding, but it ignores law, scale, and human behavior. It mistakes transparency for integrity and goodwill for architecture.
Fairness has to be engineered into the system itself, not declared in a README. Until money moves as openly, verifiably, and legally as code, nothing changes.