Which supercar manufacturer do you think fell off the hardest?

Posted by speedinsh1t@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 257 comments

My personal vote is Ferrari, their cars have gotten uglier ever since they split from Pinafarina and it doesn't look like they will get better anytime soon

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Sad_Cow_7425@reddit

Out of all manufactures you choose Ferrari? Stop acting like all the cars were made by Ferrari were masterpieces and are you telling me LaFerrari, 488, 296, SP3, 812 , Roma ugly? Btw people were working at Pininfarina are the ones still in charge of Ferrari styling they seperated from Pininfaring and went full time with Ferrari. They sell more cars than ever make more profit ever, more revenue than ever. In terms of performance wise sf90 has no rival in the market same for 296. How about Lamborghini? Went from making aventador for 12 years to a SUV company which sells rebranded audis, or McLaren which make the same looking car every time same with Porsche.

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nomno1@reddit

I think it’s Ferrari, especially due to their unwillingness to let you do what YOU want to your car after you’ve taken ownership of it. If I wanted to change the paint of my Ferrari and modify the engine to make it run better, I shouldn’t be punished for it.

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V12MPG@reddit

Good news. You’re allowed to do all of that stuff and more. Ferrari doesn’t care. In fact your local Ferrari dealer is likely to be happy to sell you aftermarket parts and install them for you if you wish. Don’t believe the bullshit you read online.

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nomno1@reddit

I’ve only started to believe it due to the number of times people that own Ferrari’s are “supposedly” getting letters about their cars being repoed. I believe telling a customer that their car is being taken away due to small changes is highly illegal by a major car manufacturer

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V12MPG@reddit

> people that own Ferrari’s are “supposedly” getting letters about their cars being repoed The only reason your car is getting repossessed is if you financed it and stopped making payments. Anything else is fiction people are making up for social media clout.

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Ok-Business2680@reddit

Don't waste your time with these comments.

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gimpwiz@reddit

Unless you've signed a contract with the manufacturer that you're only gonna do X with your car and you're not allowed to do Y, or else financial penalties are involved - which I am fairly fucking certain Ferrari does not make you sign, other than possibly rights of first refusal on resale - then that's bullshit. I've seen plenty of Ferraris with plenty of modifications. I mean shit, Tubi makes great business selling beautiful exhausts to Ferrari owners. The manufacturer doesn't care. There are all manner of body kits, wings and splitters and diffusers, suspension components, brakes, seats, etc. If the manufacturer thinks your image as a customer is bad for them, the only thing they will do 'to' you is suddenly make new allocations rather difficult to obtain. They may also pressure dealers to not sell you used cars either, but that's an uphill battle because dealers very much like to sell cars they have on their lot. Beyond that... repo your car for anything other than nonpayment? No. If you're thinking about the Purrari, they decided that selling it branded as such was a trademark violation. They didn't care he wrapped it nyan cat and they didn't care he was selling it wrapped, they only cared what it was being called.

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moonRekt@reddit

I’ll +1 your Ferrari post split. The 360 and F430 to me were the pinnacle, the 812 is a huge improvement yet I just can’t get excited about the looks

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CubanLinxRae@reddit

Ferrari 296 is absolutely gorgeous and kind of disqualifies them from having fallen off. My vote goes to Lamborghini they look more like toys than cars now

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costafilh0@reddit

Nothing will ever beat the Jaguar fall.

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strongmanass@reddit

Jaguar have only ever made one supercar. Their fall has been going on for decades. The latest reset is not a fall since they voluntarily pulled all their cars and haven't released the EVs yet.

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gaius49@reddit

> Jaguar have only ever made one supercar. The XKSS.

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iohh@reddit

Correction, two. The XJR-15 and XJ220.

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c74@reddit

the fall was from when ford owned it (1989-2008) and sold if off after sucking all the blood out of it. kinda weird how great the 05/06 gt is. think farley is gonna make more bangers.

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Sufficient_Jello_1@reddit

Maserati is the correct answer. Re-badged Ferrari’s to re-badged Chrysler’s in under 2 decades is crazy work.

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gaius49@reddit

Maserati used to build many of the best sports and racing cars in the world, from roughly the late 1920s through the mid 1950s. They have never recovered back to their old heights.

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the_old_coday182@reddit

Which Chrysler is the MC20 based on?

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savageotter@reddit

The 200.

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the_old_coday182@reddit

Yeah now that you told me, I can’t unsee it

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Damn, I now start missing Viper.

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beefythickgentleman@reddit

Reddit hates on Maserati a lot but Maserati wasn't really a supercar brand like ferrari or mclaren. it’s a luxury GT brand. Even during the Chrysler era the Ghibli and Levante used engines designed by Maserati and built by Ferrari in Maranello not HEMIs from Detroit Using Dodge window switches is embarrassing for a luxury brand but the engines were still built by Ferrari and the chassis was heavily reworked The MC20 has a 630hp twin-turbo V6 which is pretty cool I think.

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impossiblefork@reddit

The problem is that if you're a luxury GT brand, you're competing with Mercedes.

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Less-Fondant-3054@reddit

If you're a luxury GT brand you're competing with the realities of time. GT cars used to be the only way to get decent speed, comfort, *and durability*\* all in one package. Now you can get that from literally everyone. You can buy something made by *Hyundai* - a Genesis - and get all of those things. You can buy a top of the line Cadillac and even get that and a smooth engine properly sized to the vehicle (i.e. no buzziness). And then yes, you can also get all of that from the Germans and get badge cachet to boot. \*durability according to the standards of the 1950s and 60s

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impossiblefork@reddit

Yes, but I think if we define a GT in the modern era I think we should also say 'absolutely safe on the autobahn', and I think this makes it at least slightly limited.

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Less-Fondant-3054@reddit

15 years ago I'd agree. Now all but the absolute most basic of economy cars can meet that threshold, too. People really overlook just how good cars have gotten in the last decade.

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impossiblefork@reddit

I think I disagree. I think the only cars that are absolutely safe on the autobahn are the German 'overengineered' ones with tyre pressure sensors etc.

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PinCompatibleHell@reddit

> I think the only cars that are absolutely safe on the autobahn are the German 'overengineered' ones with tyre pressure sensors etc. Type pressure sensors are mandatory on all new cars in the EU. The cheapest Dacias have them.

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GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit

> If you're a luxury GT brand you're competing with the realities of time. GT cars used to be the only way to get decent speed, comfort, and durability* all in one package. Now you can get that from literally everyone. You can buy something made by Hyundai - a Genesis - and get all of those things. No, you can't. The powertrain is just as important as the interior for a luxury car. Until Genesis starts offering powertrains that aren't barely a step above something you'd find in economy cars they can't compete against Mercedes or BMW. Even the LC500 has been criticized for *only* having a 470hp engine while costing $100k+.

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V4_Sleeper@reddit

people criticized the lc500 for the horsepower figure?

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saints21@reddit

No.

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saints21@reddit

The 3.3 liter G70 was a better driver than comparable Mercedes and BMWs.

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ducky21@reddit

>Even the LC500 has been criticized for only having a 470hp engine while costing $100k+. People crucified the LC500 because the interior was old during the DT administration and you don't have to clarify which one.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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strongmanass@reddit

lol Mercedes can't compete in that segment either. S-class ciupe and cabrio gone, AMG GT available with big discounts. The only successful brands in that segment are the exotics: Bentley, Ferrari, Rolls Royce. Maserati gets caught in a weird no man's land where they're more expensive than the entry-level (Mercedes/BMW/Lexus) so those buyers are excluded, but not as good as the exotics, so those buyers go elsewhere.

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bullet50000@reddit

Not Mercedes, they're trying to be effectively the Italian Aston Martin. This is definitely doable, and I think they could even beat Aston at their game, but they got bought by probably the worst owners to make that happen. They crept too close to Ferrari for that to work under Fiat/Ferrari ownership. If they had gotten bought by someone like VW to be that step above Audi and below Bentley, it probably could have worked, and brand differentiated the Continental GT.

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Ran4@reddit

Lol what? The Maserati and GT Mercedes crowd has nothing at all in common.

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V4_Sleeper@reddit

people really do hate Maseratis when their cars look more fabulous than half of what the manufacturers are offering today. the granturismo is beautiful

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ExpensiveBookkeeper3@reddit

> Maserati wasn't really a supercar brand But I heard Maseratis go 185 decades ago, so that's pretty super

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stav_and_nick@reddit

I think Maserati was always sort of cursed. The entire vibe was "okay yeah we're not Ferrari, *but*..." That just can't last

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Zanna-K@reddit

The problem for Maserati is kind of the same problem that plagues brands like Aston Martin, but even moreso. They weren't special enough for the price and headache so the depreciation hits them really hard. Like if you were going to be spending well into the six figures for a Granturismo (MC Stradale) in 2015 like why not just get a used 458 Italia instead for just a little bit more money? Not only does that get you started on the Ferrari relationship, but you get to name drop the F badge and own a "real" MR Ferrari. Hell you'd actually be SAVING money since the 458 Italia wouldn't depreciate nearly as fast as an MC Stradale. Like to buy the Maserati you'd have to really specifically want it, just like with an Aston. Like why buy a $300,000 Vanquish that's going to be worth peanuts after a few years over a Ferrari? There's something about the brand that you really have to identify with to make you not give a fuck enough about the money.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

Yeah, at least with Aston there is a "vibe" to it. A more british, refined, James Bond experience, which really appeals to certain people Maserati's vibe is the same as Ferrari's, so why go for the budget imitator?

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saints21@reddit

Yeah, Aston Martins are still associated with wealth. Maseratis are associated with your local used car dealership that has a buy here/pay here for people that specializes in people with cash only businesses.

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Workity@reddit

If it’s a “cool by association” thing though it depends on who you’re trying to impress. Eg if you want a 911 so that women will like you (I mean lol but you know these people exist), how many of your target market are gonna see the difference between a 996 and 993? Or 08 cayman vs 08 911 turbo? Maseratis are still impressive to people not in the car world.

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Zanna-K@reddit

The fact that a Maserati is not a Ferrari and not a Lambo definitely has some intrinsic value. It has a exotic Italian name, an exotic looking badge, their cars generally look pretty good, and they have an exotic sound. There's probably some amount of respect you can get even from car people if you can confidently say that you don't care about the downsides of owning one because it's the car that you really like. It does seem like Maserati is leaning in on this with the MCPura and GT2 Stradale. Both are certified supercars with a significantly more "supercar" look as mid-engined cars. The original GT Stradale from 10 years ago looked good and was quite nice to drive, but it ultimately had a more familiar front-engined (or "FMR") layout. A lot of people have a stronger reaction to a mid or rear-engined chassis

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ChickenFeet23@reddit

True, people like that would just be in awe at the badge.

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Witherino@reddit

>Maserati's vibe is the same as Ferrari's In what way? ive never seen someone driving a Masarati who looked like they cross shopped it with a Ferrari. It's always been cross shopping BMWs and Mercs but wanted something "cooler"

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strongmanass@reddit

> if you were going to be spending well into the six figures for a Granturismo (MC Stradale) in 2015 like why not just get a used 458 Italia instead for just a little bit more money? Because 1) it wasn't just "a little bit more money." It was $100K plus options. Maserati has never approached Ferrari pricing except for rare things like the MC12. And 2) they aren't remotely the same driving experience. it's all in the name. The Granturismo is a grand tourer. The 458 is a hard-edged supercar. Maserati's problem is whoever decided that the Ghibli should be a cheap lease special. That killed their cachet among the high spending crowd and the values of all their cars. Imagine you spend $200K on a brand new one and someone with an 18 year-old straight-piped riced out example with a Christmas tree dashboard and mismatched rims pulls up next to you. The styling hasn't changed much because that's how the segment works, so at a glance people lump you and the ricer together. You don't feel so exclusive anymore.

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OpneFall@reddit

Finally someone who actually understands the brand and what the car is. The comparable Ferrari to a Granturismo is a 599. Which started at 3x the price.

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drfsrich@reddit

I think the difference is the $200k Ferrari is $250k after 3 years. The Maserati is $50k.

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cannedrex2406@reddit

I mean a MC Stradale is a lot less hardcore and practical than a 458 Italia. Yes a 458 is faster in every single way (and personally better) but no Maserati owner cares when they're cruising through Hollywood boulevard with the roof down, the grandkids in the back seats and the Golf clubs in the trunk. Only the Ferrari FF or California can really do that and neither can do all the stuff mentioned above

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ShadyDrunks@reddit

Idk it’s kinda of a fire concept if it worked. It’s the same thing as the Panamara, really cool when you first hear about it, but then you find out it’s a rebadged Audi that doesn’t have anything Porsche in it at all. At least Maserati actually had Ferrari engines, just the rest of the car fell apart

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goaelephant@reddit

Imo they werent "supercars" since the 1970s. Since then they have became a Bentley-ish, Aston Martin-ish luxury brand (and even then, not quite on their level). In the 70s they had the mid-engined V8 Bora which had 0-60 times and top speeds *not far off* a Lamborghini Miura. In otherwords, supercar territory. Then they had a malaise-era front wheel drive period. I dont consider them supercars, except for the occasional MC12 or MC20. Im sure 95% of Maseratis are luxury coupes / sedans.

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goaelephant@reddit

Imo they werent "supercars" since the 1970s. Since then they have became a Bentley-ish, Aston Martin-ish luxury brand (and even then, not quite on their level). In the 70s they had the mid-engined V8 Bora which had 0-60 times and top speeds *not far off* a Lamborghini Miura. In otherwords, supercar territory. Then they had a malaise-era front wheel drive period. I dont consider them supercars, except for the occasional MC12 or MC20. Im sure 95% of Maseratis are luxury coupes / sedans.

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flatpetey@reddit

When were they good?

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

The 60's and 70's. Then they got purchased by Citroen. I wouldn't mind a Merak which was post Citroen, but an SS to avoid the Citroen weirdness. The Bora, Indy, etc are all worth a good chunk of change. Even then they were much more about being a fast, comfortable gt, than ferrari.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

After decades, they're back together. It really sounds like DS brand should help Maserati.

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R_V_Z@reddit

The first gen Ghibli is one of the best looking cars ever made, IMO.

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InvasionOfScipio@reddit

A current ghibli trofeo is incredibly underrated. CPO for like 60-70 with a Ferrari V8, RWD.

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inaccurateTempedesc@reddit

Late 2000s for sure. That's when they still had the Ferrari V8s and you could get one with the much more reliable ZF6 automatic and not the F1 SCT.

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Xstatic3000@reddit

Except for the MC20 they were never "rebadged Ferraris".

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strongmanass@reddit

MC12 but yeah

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Xstatic3000@reddit

Damnit - I knew that! Fixed it!

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mellolizard@reddit

My SIL works for maserati and for her wedding she got one for the getaway car. It took me and a couple of groomsmen 20 minutes to find it because they are such nondescript cars. Hyundai has better styling than whatever that was.

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strongmanass@reddit

> It took me and a couple of groomsmen 20 minutes to find it That's more a statement on the bride and groom's generosity to offer open bar at the wedding.

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the_old_coday182@reddit

Oh yeah that’s the one thing I’ve always heard about Maserati. They’re just so bland looking, no styling at all. Ha…

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Averageinternetdoge@reddit

I dunno why Maserati keeps dropping the ball. They have *the* heritage, they can clearly design achingly pretty cars but somehow it all falls apart when it's time to actually deliver something worth the money. Just for once build something that doesn't break into million pieces and people will love the brand?

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Derpy_Kirby@reddit

Well to be fair, it's rebadged Alfa's. Maserati had their own platform for the Quattroporte and Levante, but the Grecale and new GranTurismo are on the Giorgio platform. Chrysler sole model is on an ancient Fiat platform that also was used for the Dart, 200, Cherokee, and Alfa Guilietta.

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Ok_Reputation3298@reddit

They’re a litmus test for regards who buy them and showing them off lol

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OoIIoO@reddit

Many Maserati owners would look at you like you had two heads if you said "Birdcage Tipo 61"

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Multifaceted-Simp@reddit

Maserati build quality has sky rocketed this generation and the gt2 and mc20 and grecale are some insanely gorgeous cars.

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JanetYellensFuckboy_@reddit

Their SUV slop subsidized the MC20’s (actual) engineering effort

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redzaku0079@reddit

Lotus

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Scarlet-Highlander-@reddit

Besides the obvious answer (Maserati), what the hell is Lotus even doing these days

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max_power1000@reddit

As fun as the Elise, Exige, and Evora have been, they haven’t made an arguable supercar/exotic since the Esprit. The first 2 were essentially street legal go-carts, and the Evora still feels just a step up from a kit car.

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gimpwiz@reddit

I think the Evora is a pretty complete package, I'd never compare it to a kit car.

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Sweet_Session_9470@reddit

Yea kit car is crazy not sure where he got that from

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Ghost17088@reddit

The Elise wasn’t even that expensive, it was like 40k and had the same Toyota engine that was used in the Corolla.

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TaskForceCausality@reddit

>>what the hell is Lotus even doing these days Building exactly what enthusiasts say they want, which is why they make no money.

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Zonda97@reddit

Ironically lotus where in a better position doing that than making expensive EV’s no one wants.

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Makeitquick666@reddit

they just missed on the price, enthusiast cars should be free! Are they stupid?

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Scarlet-Highlander-@reddit

ah yes, the enthusiasts famously asking for EV SUVs and 1800kg hypercars, you’re so right

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OKBWargaming@reddit

They built enthusiast cars for decades, and that's exactly the reason why they fell behind. Porsche and co made Suvs which gave them a ton of money, whereas sticking to enthusiast cars led Lotus to near bankruptcy.

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Fortunately, Lotus is now owned by Chinese automakers, Geely. They can put so much money to save the brand. However, that's reason why Lotus not like Lotus before because Geely wants to use them to sell their bunch Chinese models. Emira is last real Lotus, and we don't know when Geely asks to kill it.

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DanielG165@reddit

Building the Emira? An enthusiast’s wet dream? It’s not their fault that nobody is actually buying them.

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HoldingForGenova@reddit

> It’s not their fault that nobody is actually buying them. I mean, it kind of is. They announced it in 2021, and started taking orders April of 2022 for 2023 delivery, but didn't deliver those orders until *literally this year.* The announced base price? $74,900. The actual base price when delivered? Over $100K. So not only was it two year late, but 30% more expensive too. So yeah, it kinda is their fault. They had a ton of goodwill and then blew it.

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-Olive-Juice-@reddit

I mean it’s kind of their fault. I had a deposit in for one when they first got announced, it kept getting delayed and prices went up. I ended up getting a CT4 V Blackwing instead and now I have an M2.

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gimpwiz@reddit

Getting sold and bought AGAIN because nobody has any idea how to use the Lotus brand to make cars that make money. What are people actually buying these days? Not the sports cars Lotus is known for. It's hard to imagine them living off of just those. They need something else. Which unfortunately is gonna be whatever sells, no matter how un-Lotus it is.

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DarkMatterM4@reddit

I thought the obvious answer is Vector...

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Scarlet-Highlander-@reddit

Their claim to fame was rebodying a Diablo. I’d contend that they were never that great to begin with

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violet_sakura@reddit

Making 2.7 tons electric SUVs

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man_seeking_waffles@reddit

Well technically, they aren't even making those...

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ignore_my_typo@reddit

Emira is one of the best looking cars out there. I’d give my left nut for one.

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Acceptable-Ad8922@reddit

The Emira is glorious though…

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vaginal_milk@reddit

Seriously. I’d do terrible things for an emira

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

The rap video market seems to have dried out since the whole Diddy shit.

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2fast2nick@reddit

No way, the 296 is beautiful and rips.

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3dmontdant3s@reddit

Define fall hardest. They sell more cars each year, revenue is up and stockprice is up. If the definition is your subjective liking the looks then by all means

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speedinsh1t@reddit (OP)

Sorry, I mean in terms of styling, performance, or quality

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nukleabomb@reddit

the 296 has had rave reviews, and reviewers call it the best supercar on sale too.

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mydoortotheworld@reddit

Is there anyone on this sub that owns or has driven a 296 that can offer a perspective? Not that I don’t trust reviewers. But sometimes I feel like Ferrari wink wink nudge nudges their reviewers to go easy on them

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

I can, it's really a phenomenal vehicle. I've raved about it several times on Reddit - [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1oe7vwc/comment/nkzj1kp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/supercars/comments/1mdgk23/comment/n62ojlw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lamborghini/comments/1mcqxvg/comment/n5xwilt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). It handles nearly as well as a Senna but is not spine crushingly uncomfortable if you're in it for >30 mins. I loved it so much I got a GTB at well over market price from a dealer just so I can get my hands on its successor, the Speciale. I've been pretty anti-Ferrari for years now but that one vehicle single-handedly made me get over my qualms about the brand's business practices.

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woodsides@reddit

They were willing to give you a Speciale after buying a single 296 GTB? That too used I assume by the over market price comment? Teach me your ways Sensei.

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Call in favors. But really, the delta between what I paid and what it’s actually worth is a sparingly used Roma.

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woodsides@reddit

You're telling me you paid 200k over for a car that's going for like 100k+ under MSRP? So they ***really*** ripped you a new one huh? Yeah you deserve that Speciale my man. Godspeed.

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Like I said, they got their pound of flesh. I’ve convinced myself I still got a deal because I skipped the line. > Your qualms on their business practices continues to reach new heights Eh, it is what it is.

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woodsides@reddit

Nice. Nonetheless, it's a fantastic car so you'll forget the pain as soon as you drive it lol. Have you specced the Speciale yet? Are Speciale and W1 going to be delivered to the US or Dubai?

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Hope so. Both delivered to the states. Haven’t specced it yet, not really sure what I want.

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woodsides@reddit

I'm shopping around for a 296 right now as well (used, want new but don't want to wait 2 years). Do you have a preference regarding GTB vs GTS? Used spiders are about ~30% more than coupes here ($650k vs $850k). I'm leaning more towards the GTS. Another option is a SF90 spider at around $1.25M but the 296 is probably better for what I want out of the car.

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woodsides@reddit

I'm shopping around for a 296 right now as well (used, don't want to wait 2 years for a new one). Do you have a preference regarding GTB vs GTS? Used spiders are about ~30% more than coupes here ($650k vs $850k). I'm leaning more towards the GTS. Another option is a SF90 spider at around $1.25M but the 296 is probably better for what I want out of the car.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

Seems like he has the money to throw away like its nothing....

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woodsides@reddit

Eh. Sometimes you just look at things that catch your eye and you just have to get them. You're not necessarily thinking with your head in those moments. Then again, who am I to tell him how to spend his money? I impulsively paid a similar markup on a Porsche because it was the exact spec that I wanted and there were only like 3 of those cars in the country. I'm getting a 296 as well and they're the best part of a $1M in my country. Makes no sense, but ultimately, this is the kind of shit I worked my ass off for lol.

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TS040@reddit

i think it goes without saying (and you’ve probably heard it before) but your garage is genuinely absurd lol. if you’re ever trying to adopt a random dude from the UK hit me up

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woodsides@reddit

I can attest to that. It's simply phenomenal. I maintain that the only people who are shitting on it are the ones who haven't driven one. Such a fun car to drive, miles better than the SF90. These things are a fucking steal at their current market prices (sub 300k). That or a GT3 Touring? I know what I'm choosing.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

I can also independently attest as a non-owner it is one of the best driving cars on sale right now, imho one of the best Ferraris of all time, & I would very easily take it over a 488 or 458 given the option You may not agree with the styling sound supply etc. & thats fine, but it a fantastic supercar

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mydoortotheworld@reddit

Actually I personally think it sounds and looks great. It’s not as classically styled as a 458 but honestly I still love it. Taking it over a 458 and a 488 is very high praise, as I’ve driven both and can’t imagine how it could be even better. Can’t wait to experience one.

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3dmontdant3s@reddit

There's a few at r/Ferrari

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mydoortotheworld@reddit

Forgot to even check that. Thanks

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nukleabomb@reddit

There were quite a few owners in the Artura thread a few months back. [https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1lojm2c/comment/n0ozaa5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1lojm2c/comment/n0ozaa5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

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leesfer@reddit

Ferrari quality is better than ever. Styling, I personally love it. I find the new 849 to be refreshing and the 296S is one of the best looking Ferraris of all time. Performance? Absolutely staggeringly good now. A base Ferrari today will stomp on Ferraris of old.

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beefythickgentleman@reddit

Some argue they've lost exclusivity. Most of these "some" are on reddit though.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

Idk; I've went from rarely seeing ferraris to continuing to rarely see ferraris Reddit goes from complaining about exotic cars locked in climate controlled garages and in the same breath talks about how they're not "exclusive". Idk how to square that circle but sure

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max_power1000@reddit

Yeah unless you live in the right zip codes, seeing them in the wild is a rarity.

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the_old_coday182@reddit

Some people just don’t get this lol. I can’t think of the last time I actually saw a Ferrari or Lambo in the wild, even *near* my hometown, but it’s been more than a couple years. When I was in high school, a family friend bought a Jaguar XK8 and that was the most exotic car I’d been up close with until that point.

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badpuffthaikitty@reddit

I knew a guy that owned a Ferrari TestaRossa. It was a difficult car to drive regularly. He traded it in for an Acura NSX. He treated it like a Civic.

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wildabb@reddit

i think it just depends on your area cause living in socal i see mclaren and lambos almost every day (mostly huracans but i feel like that’s a new money first option for super cars) but ferraris are definitely still a lot more rare

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Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit

Same in Silicon Valley. Someone in my office park or the one next door dailys his Lambo. I mean... if you like it, why not? You see whole herds of supercars drive up and down Skyline every weekend, and particularly at Alice's Restaurant.

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saints21@reddit

Yeah, there a couple of Ferraris around my smallish town. You never see them around town because their owners are in Yukons or F150s instead.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

Swiss here, as a car enhusiast its awesome here, on a nice summer day you can just sit on some random main road and see tons of supercars go by all day long.

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Mother____Clucker@reddit

Speaking of which, I find my area to be very odd in that sense. On a near daily basis, I see Lamborghinis, McLarens, Bentleys, Porsches, etc. but almost never Ferraris. And even when I do, it's never anything newer than a 488.

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TeriusRose@reddit

> Idk how to square that circle Different people with different perspectives or the same people giving contradictory takes?

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fastlax16@reddit

Social media exposes more people to the cars locked in climate control garages along with the types of people that own them.

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3dmontdant3s@reddit

13.700 total cars by Ferrari in 2024 vs 50.000 Porsche 911, it's still quite exclusive

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GoldenPeperoni@reddit

Tbh that's way way way more than I expected from Ferrari lol Especially considering Porsche 911 is supposed to be the "everyday man's sports car", with much lower entry price, and a dealership in virtually every mid sized city.

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3dmontdant3s@reddit

It was 7200 in 2014

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SlackBytes@reddit

Well when you put it like that then it makes OP look like an idiot.

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Stacheshadow@reddit

Not a supercar manufacturer but Ford and Honda. Still pissed they killed off their supercars

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FR_Van_Guy@reddit

# Callaway

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metricmindedman@reddit

clearly nissan; went from a jdm powerhouse to a running joke

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HP_594@reddit

Lamborghini, and I say this as a Lamborghini fan. The Urus isn’t bespoke enough, considering it is essentially an Audi RSQ8, which is also essentially a Porsche Cayenne, which is also essentially a Bentley Bentayga. Jokes apart, smart people would likely buy the RSQ8 for less. Besides, it looks sexier compared to the Urus. As for the Temerario, I doubt it will have a market. Anyone would rather purchase a used Huracan or Gallardo, because those cars’ engines were what made them loved and bespoke. A C8 ZR1 would be an even better investment than the Temerario. This leaves us with the Revuelto, and while it is a great car, unfortunately, that’s the only proper Lamborghini in its lineup. I hope Lamborghini don’t dilute the Revuelto with multiple variants, like they did with the previous models.

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Omnivirus@reddit

I’m with you. Whether it’s fully true or not, I get a real sense of super Audi but with more performance from Lamborghini nowadays. Sort of how I feel about Bentley too- super Audi but with more luxury. That doesn’t mean they’re shit cars. But they’re no longer these bespoke one of a kind purpose driven vehicles in my mind. Disregarding one off models that they do in super limited quantities.

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gimpwiz@reddit

The Urus sells like a motherfucker though, they sold more Urus cars in like two years than their entire sum total of cars sold from the first car rolled off the line till like 2000, or something like that. It may be disappointing to fans, but people with cash are pulling their wallets out left and right.

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D0z3rD04@reddit

SSC, from cheating the top speed world record to not really releasing anything since the ultimate areo

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Zonda97@reddit

Porsche (though not strictly supercar manufacturer but who is anymore). They’re having a horrid financial year, but they have made some awful decisions. Shifting their design language from being based around the 911 to now based around the Taycan. Best selling model going EV and now it’s barely outselling the ICE Macan that’s not even for sale in Europe anymore. The parts bin ‘special edition’ models. The mess of GT allocations with dealerships. Base Carrera being over £100k. They went after the Ferrari Market but they’re far closer to Audi than Ferrari.

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Kev50027@reddit

Jaguar.

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braytag@reddit

Not really "supercar" if you don't count the xj-220, but Jaguar..... Mouhahahaha.... wtf guys?

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theBdub22@reddit

McLaren

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well_thats_obvious@reddit

They make some seriously capable cars, but man they all look the same - same curves, same powertrains, same dbag tech bro owners

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OneDownFourToGo@reddit

Ouch

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Houston103@reddit

On top of that they have terrible build quality even by limited quantity car standards.

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Born4Nothin@reddit

I can barely tell them apart when I see one

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quiksi@reddit

Jaguar-they made the XJ220 and then poof

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Kernoriordan@reddit

They were never really a supercar manufacturer though. That was a luxury manufacturer attempting to make a supercar.

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AustrianMichael@reddit

They held the production speed record twice (XK120, XJ220).

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quiksi@reddit

The same could be said about Maserati which is in several top comments here, even if they’ve made more attempts

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cannedrex2406@reddit

Yes but Maserati have always made exotic sportscar and luxury supercars over the years (Bora, MC12, MC20), Jaguar has only made a single (2 if you include the CX-75)

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exolomus@reddit

The 53 XJ15s would like to have a word with you.

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cannedrex2406@reddit

Touchè

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dsonger20@reddit

Jaguar is like Audi. Full size Luxury Sedans being sold alongside supercars like the R8.

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gimpwiz@reddit

They made the XJR-15 which is abso-fucking-lutely a supercar.

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interlagosfever@reddit

Whatever Aston-Martin been doing. I see anything but those. Like, who's even buying them?

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instantur@reddit

All of them tbh. The 2010s was the best era for supercars.

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interlagosfever@reddit

2007-2012, miss those years. That's when exotic cars were, well exotic. You didn't see huracans and the likes left right and center, seeing a Murcielago or a Carrera GT was like seeing a UFO

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1_BigPapi@reddit

Can I saw which I think rose the hardest? Not even a supercar manufacturer, but Chevy with the Corvette.

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ThePretzul@reddit

Considering how the ZR1 stomps on so many supercars, absolutely. Now if only they could refine the ability for the driver to actually feel what they’re doing when going that fast. Particularly the brake by wire could use a lot of improvement when driving at speed.

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BathingInSoup@reddit

At least Ferraris are unique and continue to evolve. Lamborghini, on the other hand, has been making the same damn car for the past 20 years!!!

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willpc14@reddit

Hey, they rebadged an RSQ8 to! But in all seriousness, the Temerario and Revuelto seem to be reviewing very well. Also, iterating on existing platforms seems like a fairly common strategy for super car manufacturers. See all of McLaren's line up and the 488 was an iteration on the 458 IIRC. Not to mention Pagani who literally produced Zondas for 20 years while claiming each version would be the last and rehashed the Huayra into the Utopia that still uses a 30 year old Mercedes key.

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V12MPG@reddit

Porsche went from the Carrera GT to the 918 to seemingly giving up on the successor after the Mission X debacle. Now they’ve pulled out of WEC Hypercar too.

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willpc14@reddit

Spike Feresten was hinting at a 963 based hypercar on his podcast this week. I know they claimed the RSP was only for Penske, but it wouldn't shock me to see them do a run of them to try covering them massive holes in their financials.

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OoIIoO@reddit

Porsche went wayward once they started making the Cayenne.

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275MPHFordGT40@reddit

Porsche was saved from bankruptcy by the Cayenne.

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OoIIoO@reddit

I don't disagree. The 4 door offerings did more to keep the doors open (Lord knows they tried with "entry level" sports cars, and failed). I grew up with Porsche really only offering the 911 and 914/916, the latter getting flack for not being a 911. The 959 was their quintessential supercar at the time, while still being very Porsche. The Cayenne showed they could set their sights to a new segment, and people would buy it, because Porsche. This started Porsche down the path of a lifestyle brand (similar to Harley Davidson). This has led them down market segments they really should stay away, notably the fastback sedan that is the Panamera, and their EVs. That first gen Panamera alone is a fall off in Porsche styling

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Finessence@reddit

I’ve heard this silly opinion multiple times on Reddit so I’d like to hear your justification on how the CGT, RS 4.0, 991 and 992 GT3s, 911R, and 911 ST are moving the company “wayward.”

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OoIIoO@reddit

Diversification diluting the brand. They went from being exclusively a niche sports car manufacturer, to appeasing just about every market segment under the sun to compete with the other German brands. The SUVs are really tarted-up Audis (except for the Cayenne, which was also a tarted-up VW as well).

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Finessence@reddit

Diluting the brand is only an issue for dorks on Reddit. There are lines for all their sports cars so the actual buyers don’t care. They also went from going out of business to being a successful automaker. You don’t see Porsche having to build Mercedes sport sedans to stay in business nowadays. Niche sports car companies are not feasible nowadays, so it’s essentially a choice of having no new Porsches or having great sports cars and SUVs to prop up the business. You can choose no Porsches but I think that’s silly. Doesn’t matter if they are based on Audis they sell like fucking hot cakes and keep the brand alive.

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AlrightAlbatross@reddit

Porsche wouldn't exist as anything but a boutique manufacturer without the Cayenne.

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niftyjack@reddit

Porsche doesn't have the brand equity to pull well in the $250,000+ segment and VAG's GM-ification of brand stratification is failing them. I'd love to see Bentley step up and lean into their rich racing heritage, but they seem to be pigeonholed into luxury.

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strongmanass@reddit

GT2 RS are going for around $1 million. And Bentley's "rich racing heritage" is coming on 100 years-old. It's not stopping Walliser from trying to make them a poor copy of Porsche though.

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Sexyturtletime@reddit

911 gt3 has been dominating the 250k performance car market

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niftyjack@reddit

At the bottom of it, sure. The Carrera GT competed with the Enzo, we're never having something like that again.

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Sexyturtletime@reddit

Idk, 911 S/Ts are going for over 750k right now and that’s a 911. I’m sure that they could sell out a Carrera GT successor in the 7 figure range if they built one.

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YJeezy@reddit

Porsche is financially Fd for a while. Horrendous timing on their EV timing.

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Makeitquick666@reddit

bro I'd love to be in Ferrari's shoes rn, just not their F1 team.

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T1m0nst3r@reddit

Pagani

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carmooch@reddit

Definitely Ferrari. I couldn’t even tell you the current line up. Seems they went from being a driving machine to a symbol of wealth and excess. Basically the automotive equivalent of a Birkin bag.

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darksideguyz@reddit

I knew Ferrari design was getting played out when they got rid of the manual (in isolation an understandable decision) but then the console switches on the Roma were modeled after the gated manual

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gimpwiz@reddit

The "heritage" switches are laughable, yeah. "Let's look back to our long history of the manual, which, when you look forward to modern cars, you remember we killed and you cannot buy."

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terryVaderaustin@reddit

All of them.

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revan132@reddit

I feel like Ferrari has had a few misses but post-Pininfarina hasn’t been nearly as bad as folks on the internet usually say. 488, F8, 812, Daytona SP3 are all examples of great looking cars that weren’t attached to them.

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Users5252@reddit

I don't really find their current design bad, don't understand all the hate paired with extremely vague criticisms

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StockAL3Xj@reddit

I don't have a strong opinion either way, I think some of their cars before and after their Partnership with Pinninfarina ended but it definitely seems like they went from more flowy, pretty designs to sharper, more aggressive ones.

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Users5252@reddit

That's just mainstream design trends changing and manufacturers will generally follow these trends so that consumers don't perceive them as outdated. Newer Pininfarina designs are also much more angular and aggressive.

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FreeTheMarket@reddit

296 is very gooey to my eyes. Looks organic almost carved from clay.

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revan132@reddit

Mostly just internet warriors with some weird axe to grind…

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hermitcraftfan135@reddit

Also, saying “post-pininfarina” is not very accurate because all of the current Ferrari designers are basically the same team that did it at Pininfarina. People on the internet love to complain about them “leaving” Pininfarina, but the reality is that Pininfarina designers simply fully came on board at Ferrari.

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NastyPlays@reddit

Source for this?

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FreeTheMarket@reddit

The 296 looks good. Definitely grew on me. I think the 12 cillindri is a big step down and I don’t love the SF90. The F80 is definitely growing on me though.

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revan132@reddit

Agree on the 296 and F80. Different and bold but at least they are trying different things.

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sioux612@reddit

Isn't the 12cilindri reminiscent of the 365 gtb? The 296 feels like a natural evolution of the 458 era vehicles, looks good Totally not a fan of the 12 though

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FreeTheMarket@reddit

Yes, that’s a big thing for me. I’ll always give props when manufacturers try something new as long as the “something new” isn’t driven by cost savings or other compromises, but is purely design driven.

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Argonaut_Not@reddit

While it's a one-off, I'd argue the SC40 is one of the prettiest cars they've built in the past few years, too

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dnitro@reddit

call me crazy but i think there’s a lot to love about the new ferrari styling direction. it seems fresh. i really, really like the new 12cil. it looks like a funky futuristic super space coupe. way better than the outgoing superfast (but not as good as the f12 tdf) the only issue with that is considering how important heritage and history are to the company, customers and enthusiasts, i can see why it misses the mark.

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FreeTheMarket@reddit

The 12Cillindri takes its styling cues from the original Daytona. Which is very much loved and part of their heritage. The problem is, I also thought that was an ugly car. These things are subjective though.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

Ferrari is kinda interesting with their v8 line. For the most part they are evolutionary. 308-328 and then breaking off for the 348-355-360, but after the 360 back to evolutionary. Personally I wish they were more different. 488 and F8 are nice looking, but it starts to feel like porsche and the 911. I mean its nice, but at a distance only the knowledgeable are going to tell them apart.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

The LaFerrari was also done in house, Ferrari can clearly do conservative design well if they'd like, I like that they're branching out a bit

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RBR927@reddit

Using two examples that are almost a copy and paste of the 458 (designed by Pininfarina) is a take.

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revan132@reddit

Ok. Throw in the 296 as well then.

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Beardedwrench115@reddit

TVR. Not even sure if they even exist anymore

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mr_lab_rat@reddit

I’m not sure if I would call them a supercar manufacturer in the first place

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Geofferz@reddit

They do not.

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hundredjono@reddit

Lamborghini, all they sell now is the Urus after relying on the Aventador for 15 years.

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Innocent-Bystander94@reddit

Lamborghini. Performance wise, better than ever. Aesthetically, garbage. I really don’t like the look of the Huracan or the Uras. They look weird. The Gallardo was beautiful. It flowed. Not a bad angle on that car.

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Recoil42@reddit

De Tomaso

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Yummy_Crayons91@reddit

I'm surprised DeTomaso was the only company that could make the American V-8 in a mid engine car with a Euro handling focus work in any meaningful numbers. I know there were Panoz and others that attempted but with the widespread availability of aluminum V-8s making good power starting with the LS-1 I figured someone could have made the formula work. They sold about 7,000 cars in the first half of the 1970s, which given the timing (end of the muscle car era, start of emissions, increase insurance, oil crisis, etc) is a massive success for a boutique mid-engined car.

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BovineAssassin@reddit

To be fair Chevy is now making an american v-8 mid engined car in far larger numbers than the pantera ever had.

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tetsuwannabe15@reddit

the new ford mustangs

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Soloroadtrip@reddit

Depends upon where you draw the line at supercar. Mercedes has not been amazing lately…but they only have a small selection that might barely make a supercar conversation.

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Dovaskarr@reddit

Ferrari should fall since you dont own the car

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Big-Energy-3363@reddit

Aston

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RAMBIGHORNY@reddit

Agree here. Aston has always made very GT-ish supercars and GTs are a dying segment. They’re products for a generation that’s aging out. On paper they seem like a good idea, good performance that won’t beat you up, but in reality pretty much everyone who can afford a GT also has a luxury SUV, sedan, or truck to daily drive and wants bleeding edge performance from a supercar not comfort

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takoriiin@reddit

Jaguar. That branding overhaul threw them to a point of no return.

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Scazitar@reddit

Ferrari but in a hearts and minds kind of way, they still sell great. 15+ years ago though they were apex of cool. Everyone wanted a Ferrari someday. These days its definitely turned into like a "yeah thats what old rich guys drive" sports car"

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

PONTIAC .

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CanadaEh97@reddit

Ah yes the great super car battles of Lamborghini and Pontiac in the 90s. The streets will forever remember.

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

They wont and don't. The streets have the shortest of memories. The question was posed .. an I answered. They were on the way to super car and got murdered out of the game.

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CanadaEh97@reddit

And what would that super car have been? Pontiac had 8 known concept vehicles and none were ever in the super car category.

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

[https://fastlaneonly.com/the-pontiac-firehawk-10-facts-about-pontiacs-sleeper-supercar/](https://fastlaneonly.com/the-pontiac-firehawk-10-facts-about-pontiacs-sleeper-supercar/)

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CanadaEh97@reddit

A Firebird with a bigger engine isn't a supercar. If that was the case any Hellcat would be considered a supercar which they are not.

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

[https://www.supercars.net/blog/meet-new-trans-super-duty-1000hp-supercar/](https://www.supercars.net/blog/meet-new-trans-super-duty-1000hp-supercar/)

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CanadaEh97@reddit

That's a Camaro with a body kit and upgraded engine, again it's not a super car it's a muscle car and it's not even a Pontiac is a Trams Am Depot build with Pontiac bages and livery slapped on it.

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XSC@reddit

Pontiac did make some cool concepts of supercars tho https://blog.consumerguide.com/forgotten-concept-pontiac-rageous/

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CanadaEh97@reddit

That's more of a crossover corvette without the corvette badge on it. I'd put Oldsmobile ahead of Pontiac with their Aerotech vehicle.

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JeerzQD@reddit

Poor Old “Ninja” Thinks Its A Cadillac

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Realistic_Ear_3052@reddit

Call me Ninja then.

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flatpetey@reddit

All of them. Sure they are selling out. But none of them are all that interesting to me.

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DanielG165@reddit

How did Ferrari fall off, exactly? Performance-wise, their cars are the best they’ve ever been. Revenue-wise, the company are selling more cars than ever before, and people are buying them. They’ve even won Le Mans more than once. This is entirely subjective on your part, OP.

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1-Word-Answers@reddit

Ferrari? The SP3 and F80 are beautiful.

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WarCrimeGaming@reddit

Mitsubishi, Audi.

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limpnoads@reddit

Anyone building super trucks....shit is so abysmal. Like we get it, you like big things, and power. Like the new 1000hp QX80 R-spec from Infinite or the Raptor ext...🫩🫩

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Mr_IsLand@reddit

Ferrari has had some stumbles lately - the SF90 not doing well on the second hand market (supposedly), the all touch capacitive button steering wheels - that new one off SC40 thing looks exactly like a GTAV super car (and not in a good way IMO) but i'm sure their sales are just fine. I'm always impressed that Maserati is still alive -though the MC20 is supposed to be pretty legit.

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Careless_Ad1708@reddit

Mitsubishi post 2010,Lancia after they withdrew from wrc,Volvo after being bought by geely

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JeerzQD@reddit

He said supercar.

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Careless_Ad1708@reddit

Mclaren . Tt V8, samey styling for everything too many special vehicles

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imnoherox@reddit

Have you never heard of the Peruvian supercar otherwise known as the Mitsubishi 3000GT? (I can’t remember where this joke used to fly lol. I think it was the vwvortex “car lounge” forum 😂)

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macgirthy@reddit

I hear ferrari has 5-7 year warranties now. Not sure what they had before but that sounds like a win to me.

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Turbo_911@reddit

So we can daily drive them and have fixed for free now? I mean if I had the money I'd be up for that!

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HomeOrificeSupplies@reddit

I’m so tired of buying the same tired Bugattis…

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StrangeSmellz@reddit

Mitsubishi

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3dmontdant3s@reddit

Which supercar has Mitsubishi made?

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XSC@reddit

2004 Outlander can be a supercar if you drive it like one.

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Muttonboat@reddit

Lancer Evo MR which ate supercars for lunch.

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TheRefurbisher_@reddit

3000GT VR4

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StrangeSmellz@reddit

This guy gets it.

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unatleticodemadrid@reddit

Maserati, probably. Ferrari’s had some questionable releases in recent years but their flagship line remains sold out years into the future. Besides, the F8, 296, and 296S are all great cars. Maserati, on the other hand, has done very little of note besides the MC20/Pura.

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Americo08@reddit

Agree that their designs have gone sideways since parting with Pininfarina, but in terms of falling the hardest that’s not the case. They have long waitlists and demand (and get) top dollar for their lineup. Porsche, albeit not an all out ‘super car’ manufacturer, has been hit the hardest with their failed EV plans and will feel that fallout for years to come.

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woodsides@reddit

Maserati I guess? Ferrari is doing better than ever with their cars sold out for like 2 years.

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BCASL@reddit

McLaren and Ferrari. Both peaked around 2013-14 imo

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