What do you think about EU?

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tzagoj@reddit

EUSSR, European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

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Excellent-Berry-2331@reddit

The EU is generally a good concept (cooperation, free trade), that passes authoritarian laws and regulations.

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Nikadaemus@reddit

Decentralized power is always the Way tho

As this is exactly the outcome every single time when consolidating

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Nikadaemus@reddit

Flood the countries, as per the UN's controlled demolition plan

Then make sure anyone complaining is targeted as a racist or hate speech and incarcerate / punitive damages to ensure the herd takes it like a champ

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EU is getting more and more totalitarian. What started with a good idea - free movement of people and goods has now transformed into a Socialist Union of European countries. Comrades in Brussels are trying to central plan the economy with BS like Green Deal and limit freedom of people living in EU.

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ILikeBumblebees@reddit

Schengen wasn't even originally part of the EU, and multiple non-EU-members are part of it, like Switzerland and Norway.

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Jcbm52@reddit

Any libertarian nust oppose EU. Libertarians want small governments and the EU is a huge one. It works as some kind of cartel of states, preventing competition among States to lower taxes.

Policy-wise, they have done some good things, like the Euro, which is great for my country (Spain) because without it we would be Venezuela. But the idea of the EU and most of what they do is negative.

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ChallengeAccepted83@reddit

Some if what the EU stands for, like the free movement of goods and people, are very strong libertarian principles that I don't think should be opposed.

There's a lot wrong with it, but it's not so black and white.

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OughtaBWorkin@reddit

*free movement of goods and people within the EU.

How are they with goods coming in from outside the EU? Not good. Not good at all.

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ChallengeAccepted83@reddit

This makes no sense. Does the US have free trade in that sense?

The EU is great cause it made 27 countries with no freedom of movement for either people of goods function as one economic union.

You need no visas or permissions to go from Poland to work in France, and that's huge (and great)!

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OughtaBWorkin@reddit

I was arguing against the 'very strong libertarian principles' part of your comment. The EU doesn't 'stand for' free trade or movement of people,. It's not remotely libertarian in that way - it is protectionist. Being part of the EU stops you from having any free trade outside of the EU.

It doesn't matter what the US does re trade, since I didn't mention them, and they are not Libertarian in their principles either.

I'm not letting perfect be the enemy of good. The EU doesn't even pass the threshold of good.

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kurobaja@reddit (OP)

What should I do at individual level?

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thalefteye@reddit

Leave the EU if you live there, one wrong move and it’s jail time for you. The citizens are becoming the minority while the newcomers are gaining power slowly.

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kurobaja@reddit (OP)

Where?

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thalefteye@reddit

UK is basically using this strategy to implement Digital ID take over right now at the moment.

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Jcbm52@reddit

If you ask me, I think libertarians have every right to be sceptic and disenchanted with politics. The only thing you can do is spread libertarian ideals. You can also talk to representatives against measures.

I believe librarians should not vote, as to not legitimize certain governments, but voting to protect your personal interests from the State (for example, voting because you fear someone worse than what the EU already is will come) is ethical too from a libertarian perspective.

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Prestigious_Bite_314@reddit

It acts as a big marketplace, and this encourages competition. But most importantly, it prevents war. This by itself is worth it. Also, former eastern block countries are very competitive in terms of their tax policy. Look up Romania specifically. It still doesn't really pressure the rest of the countries to push down. Governments suck.

The problem with laws like hate speech as that there is no godamn reason to legislate things that aren't asked to be legislated by the membee states. That's what annoys me.

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Remote_Radio1298@reddit

I agree about the euro. But I think the another b great thing for Spain (I also live here, hola!) was to be inside the EU market. That fueled the economy a lot.

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Vammoy@reddit

Scot in Sweden here (and a teacher). Property rights should guard against harming others and speach can, and has shown, to cause mental health issues and even death in young people.

Right now Sweden has robust anti-discriminatory laws that only work if the person being abused is able to use them.

I can see the point in legeslation about chat and social media because it is there that the abuse occurs: and as an older gentleman, I have little control.

Another thing (above is my peers and my own personal experience), there are more internet trolls, and trolls in general, but internet trolls in paticular are anonimous.

If I am insulted, I know that more often than not I don't deserve it: sweaty! jock! sheep-shagger! chucher! who cares I'm educated and I know I'm better than the person that insulted me because I don't stoop to thier level (unless there English). Certain people are not so ambivalent and maybe to angry to control thierselves and cause property damage. Who is to blame?

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CGB92Fan@reddit

It's a shithole.

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BeardedLegend_69@reddit

I live in Europe, NL specifically, the average person just doesnt care. Theyll surrender liberty for safety

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O-Sophos@reddit

The previous Dutch government was strongly against it, do you think that this will remain with the new government?

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BeardedLegend_69@reddit

Not really how our governments work, pvv was the biggest party, but they did not have a majority. Same as the d66 now.

Fun fact, while pvv was anti europe, they were still VERY totalitairian.

D66 is pro europe. They are interesting in some aspects (Referendum before raising taxes for example being added to the constitution)

For the rest, in terms of government influence, they are typical european party

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ImportantPost6401@reddit

*perceived safety

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Ok-Maize4086@reddit

"hate" speech is free spech

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kurobaja@reddit (OP)

EU would disagree with you.

Hate motivated crime and speech are illegal under EU law. The 2008 Framework Decision on combating certain forms of expressions of racism and xenophobia requires the criminalisation of public incitement to violence or hatred based on race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin.

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notaproshooter@reddit

That doesn't mean that he is wrong... all speech should be free. I should be able to stand right outside the parliament building in London and scream every slur in the book at the top of my lungs without fear of legal reprocussions. If someone walks up and punches me in the face or I lose my job over it. That's ones thing. But I should still be able to file an assault charge on the person who punched me.

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Lopsided_Ad3516@reddit

Authoritarian regime disagrees, thinks controlling speech is OK.

What an argument!

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Meno1331@reddit

EU would disagree with you.

Yes and they’re wrong.

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Ok-Maize4086@reddit

i don't care, all of those "anti discrimination","anti hate" laws are just form of cencorship that oftenly abused by woketoids even if it works as expected, it is just cencorship.i should express myself freely,i should be able to speak my mind even if it is *hate* .

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natermer@reddit

The EU is a massive self serving state bureaucracy that seeks its own advancement and enrichment at the expense of Europeans and is willing to use aggressive criminal violence for its own ends.

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Stachu-btw@reddit

well, if there are laws against hate speech, then there is no free speech. EU should go back to what it was founded, only economic union, not political union

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

I'm not in favor of giving up local sovereignty and autonomy.

As for "hate speech" I share the same sentiment as SCOTUS did.

A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government’s benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society.

—Matal v. TAM

And before some smartass tries to hit me with "SCOTUS rulings don't apply in the EU!"

I know that, I am saying that I agree with SCOTUS on Hate Speech, not that I think the Supreme Court of the United States has any power or jurisdiction in the EU.

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RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit

Most EU member countries never had true free speech. It was always free speech until the government says "no". The governments have been saying "no" more often in recent years. What the EU is doing is no different from what individual countries are already doing.

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djIsoMetric@reddit

1984

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zylerbram@reddit

I hardly think of the EU at all.

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EngineerTrue5658@reddit

I am in favor of many of the EU econ policies, such as easy free trade and movement of workers between countries. However they are passing many laws about civil liberties that I are too nuanced to be enforceable whilst preserving everyone's freedom.

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Notworld@reddit

Sounds like they hate hate. Lock em up.

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ilak333@reddit

The EU is one of the worst things to happen to Europe.

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darcvox@reddit

Slaves to the WEF and another layer of incompetent parasitic bureaucracy

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LetsGoForPlanB@reddit

When will they realize that offense is taken, not given. I'm incredibly offended by some of the proposals coming from these politicians. It really makes me believe they hate me. Where will they draw the line? Hopefully before this travesty gets passed anywhere.

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Olieskio@reddit

I've started to massively support my country leaving the EU due to the recent actions by EU, EU would be great if it was just a trade and border agreement and nothing more.

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BuxtonWater1@reddit

The EU also keeps pushing for mass state surveillance with things like Chat Control. Not cool.

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Former-Eggplant-7439@reddit

I’m from the EU and this is one of the most authoritarian acts they’ve been trying to pass over the last few years. Free speech is pretty much nonexistent here, especially in the more western countries, and it will certainly enable the prosecution of anyone based on text messages. This will certainly become our Patriot Act (instead of terrorism it is justified by finding sexual predators), and I fear we won’t have our Snowden to unveil it.

I know there are just a few Europeans here, but if you are also afraid, here is how you can fight it:

https://fightchatcontrol.eu

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