Italy vs Spain. Why Spain is more popular?
Posted by Wunid@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 269 comments
Hi, I live in Germany and work as an electronics engineer in an industry with a labor shortage and receive interesting offers from all over Europe. I don't really have any immediate pressure to change jobs, but I recently received an interesting offer from Spain. I declined the offer, but it made me consider moving south, as I've never lived in a warm country.
In fact, from what I've seen, only two countries in the south have a developed industry with many job offers: Spain and Italy. However, Spain seems to be much more popular on Reddit. This puzzles me a bit, as on paper Italy looks better.
Here's why: Italy is the European manufacturing powerhouse after Germany, so the job market is much wider and there are many more job offers.
Italy has lower taxes for expats, with a 70/90% tax exemption on income and earnings from abroad. This is much better than Spain's Beckham Law, which imposes a 24% flat tax.
The cuisine tops the rankings, the weather is similar, and it's closer to the rest of Europe. Citizenship can be obtained after four years instead of ten (EU citizens).
The advantages of Spain are a more open society and probably better infrastructure.
I've never lived in these countries, so people probably have more insight into this from living there. What do you think of my summary? Do these points seem legit? Why would I choose Spain over Italy?
West_Possible_7969@reddit
I am of Italian heritage which would made things technically much easier for me but eventually ended up in Spain (from Greece) for these reasons (I m here 4 years now): - way better healthcare and not only in urban areas - safer - people are more welcoming - less corruption, especially on the ultra local level (if you decide to open a shop for example) - Italy has more similarities to Greece for my liking, many good but the bad also - infra. I cannot overstate that, in both Greece & Italy reliable access to roads, postal service, internet, even modern power, is not a given depending the location. - I own a services company and clients are more open to work with foreigners, also Spain has more english speaking population which makes starting over easier.
Critical_Ideal99@reddit
nore safer? In Spain, they have the most criminalized neighborhood in Europe. It's called La Mina. Furthermore, Italy has the lowest homicide rates in the world. I understand that Italy is problematic, but let's avoid writing falsehoods.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Lol. We are not responsible for what you think your reading comprehension is, and no one in EU is bothered by homicide rates anyway, Greece, Italy & Spain are 0,1% apart. If you consider safety not being gunned down in the streets only, then good for you.
Speaking of straw men arguments, since you focused on a specific neighbourhood in a whole country, tell is how the mafia-run towns are doing while you ‘re at it.
Simonexplorer@reddit
This is the correct answer. Also, Spain has more tech and digital commerce. Reddit users naturally skews in that direction when it comes to work.
GroochtheOrc@reddit
I do think this is subject to where in Italy you choose to live. We are moving to Bologna and the entire city seems to be decked out in fiber. This is possibly because there's a large university there and its a center for commerce and travel. I think once you start going outside of Florence, Rome, Bologna and Milan, the infrastructure degrades quite a bit. I had pretty reliable high speed internet in Siena when I was there for a month recently, but again, that's a fairly developed part of Tuscany. When you get outside the city walls, my understanding is that the infrastructure just starts to take a dive.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
And Art / applied arts, well paid too!
William_Defro@reddit
Italy deserves to be burned to the ground.
From an Italian citizen
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I'm curious about the healthcare system. I've heard that Italy actually has a good healthcare system (not to be compared to Spain).
slumdogbi@reddit
Depends. Are you comparing with USA? So then it’s godlike
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I am comparing more with EU average.
slumdogbi@reddit
Then it’s trash af
LvdT88@reddit
Healthcare in Italy is regional, the quality is going to be strongly influenced by what region you end up living in. Waiting lists tend to be very long everywhere, though.
mugiwara_no_Soissie@reddit
Btw what kinda electronics do you work on? More software or also hardware? C/C++?
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Only hardware and only analog electronics.
Proud_Muffin_9955@reddit
I live in Italy (rural area) and healthcare is rough
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Most of EU has a certain level of healthcare that is above and beyond anywhere else (accessible to everyone) but since I specifically did not want to live inside a big city, I found Spain’s system surprising, ie decentralised enough.
thesofakillers@reddit
I have the opposite impression about basically all these points
West_Possible_7969@reddit
If we were talking about a part of Northern Italy then yes, I would agree with you. But then we would debate about the correct climate 🤣 (I m not built for anything northern)
Hardkoar@reddit
Right, because if we go below Sevilla and end up donde Cristo perdió la chancla, Spain has amazing infra and labor market right?
It's the same shit as south Italy. Broken, poor and 3rd world.
If you are going to compare Madrid/Barcelona with Italy, you should compare it with Milano down to Rome and not below.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Sure, everyone knows Granada or Malaga are “broken, poor, 3rd world” areas lol. Who hurt you and why do you think this is a competition? I state my experiences which are extensive in both countries, from my point of view and for a specific lifestyle. I am self employed and not sensitive to labour market, which is why I did not mentioned it, and do not want to live in big urban areas, certainly not Madrid or Barcelona.
Hardkoar@reddit
Relajate malaka ;) . No one is hurt, just pointing out that if you are going to compare Italy to Spain you should either compare mezzogiorno with Andalusia/Extremadura or the north with Madrid/Barcelona. I think when one shares his personal experience as advice it should be taken into consideration right?
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Extremadura & Andalusia could very well be different countries though. Same with Napoli & Palermo. You misunderstood what I said, I said that if we compare only affluent areas then all countries (in EU) are mostly the same. And some common sense is applied to our discussions here in service of brevity & convenience: no foreigner would even know where Extremadura is, every country has its own region like this also.
And what someone expects on lifestyle etc are subjective, for example imho Bilbao is better than all of northern Italy cities and that is a hill I ‘ll die on lol (though if I would ever go north, I would choose Girona).
bakecskeee@reddit
Lived in Spain and now working for an Italian company, so I visit often (although I did not move there).
I disagree that people are more welcoming in Spain. That maybe the fact if you speak Spanish, but I didn't, and had a very hard time to make connections. Not many people speak english anyway, and you def have to speak Spanish to be welcome in the inner circles.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
This may be relevant: I am a bit dark skinned (like a middle easterner, but I am not one) and that has been a problem for me in Italy whereas in Spain not. I speak both Italian & Spanish (medium level but serviceable). And of course there are many many factors at play, how social you are, how hot you are, what age groups and social / financial brackets, hobbies, amount of free time, or if you even vibe with the local culture and way of things. No two people will have the same experience.
bakecskeee@reddit
Im a white east european in my 30s. Im not really into small talk and I had the impression that that's all what Spanish people do, which could contribute indeed to my experience. Had multiple people from my country have the same experience. Even at work, people did not want to discuss more serious company matters, only positive vibes were allowed! I was definitely not going along with that.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Yeap, I get it!
blueberry_404@reddit
I am an Italian living in Spain and I agree with all your points, I don't miss the bad infrastructure of my home country.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Bureaucracy is the same in all 3 countries though 🤣
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
I doubt it. I saw a video on Italy. The guy wanted to build a simple house addition on his countryside property in Italy. He said the permits where going to cost him $50,000. For his run down Italian home, he had to go through a pain in the ass months long process just to be allowed to replace his shitty windows with new energy effecient windows.
I think Spain is bad when it comes to beauracracy but not THAT bad. In Spain you certainly don't pay anywhere near $50,000 for basic permits most of the time.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Odd-Notice-9156@reddit
I upvoted you, but it's to be noted that most places in Italy have some kind of special regulation as to preserve the landscape. With the place being overall so narrow and populated you'll always be next to a national park/higway/UNESCO site etc.
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
Idk. His house seemed like a crappy rotting away farm house surrounded by other crappy marginal farmland and houses in the middle of nowhere. I really doubt his house had any historical significance because he never mentioned it in the video.
If his house was "historically significant" then I wouldn't trust buying a single house in Italy.
All I know is he had to ask permission and go through a month long pain in the ass process just to be able to replace his horrible outdated windows and fix his failing roof. That's absolutely ridiculous to me.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Oh, this is so highly dependant on location, age and wether the building is listed (graded or whatever is called in your country) and on top of that you pay to legalise any “irregularity” there was before. It is so complicated and full of headaches even if you are native.
I have horror stories to tell of my adventure of buying in Spain too, mainly because I wanted to find a historical-ish looking house.
What you need to do in all of the South is let the professionals handle it and dont do anything by yourself, not even appointments with civil servants. In the end it will be far cheaper & far more peaceful of an experience that way.
Spain & Greece have some peculiarities on some specific kinds of old buildings and properties where you will not be able to change the floor plan or make additions ever, and if you are not familiar with the matter no one will tell you beforehand. Not only historical ones, but some fincas too.
Crazy_Mosquito93@reddit
But it's important to notice that Italy is actually a very different experience whether you live in the north or the south. For example healthcare in northern Italy is far far better than healthcare in the south and definitely on the same level (or better than Spain). Same for all the other things you described. Go to Trentino Alto Adige, Piedmont or Lombardy: they have nothing in common with Greece.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
That is true for every country though, its affluent areas are better. What is not true for every country is having an at least acceptable standards of living in most of it, preferably (for me) where the sun and beaches are lol.
its1968okwar@reddit
This is spot on. I worked in both Italy and Spain - you will definitely have a better time as a foreigner in Spain. I lived and worked in quite a few countries and Spain would be my first choice in Europe.
peachypeach13610@reddit
Spain is more modern and things work better (albeit a terrible job market and a lot of red tape which they have in common with Italy). It is a far more progressive country which matters a lot to me as I want to live in a place that is aligned to my values. That being said, it is definitely also overly romanticised and seen through rose coloured glasses, which is very apparent when you speak to Spaniards vs when you speak to either tourists or people who think they know it just because have done 6 months of Erasmus there or expats who live in their bubbles with barely any contact with the locals (rather frequent in Spain)
Candiesfallfromsky@reddit
I’ve lived in both Italy and Spain. They seem so similar but they’re not. Spain is actually evolved and extremely progressive compared to Italy. Italy is just a mess.
Critical_Ideal99@reddit
you overestimate Spain.
Eihe3939@reddit
Most people outside of Reddit don’t put gay rights as their most important factor when moving somewhere
peachypeach13610@reddit
It is actually much more than gay rights. It’s women’s rights, labor rights, press freedom, corruption etc.
But I see you have focused on the one thing that probably most concerns you personally.
SpiderGiaco@reddit
Most corruption data makes Italy and Spain virtually identical. It's not like the Pyrenees are a barrier against corruption.
Labor rights are also pretty much on the same level.
The main reason for press freedom in Italy to be down is due to mafia violence and pressure, which of course sucks, but for the rest it's not particularly different from Spain.
peachypeach13610@reddit
Press freedom is also linked also to government pressure which is horrendous in Italy. Also the very existence of the mafia and its long standing political ties make Italy significantly more corrupt, Spain hasn’t got anything of that scale.
Eihe3939@reddit
I would not put corruption and press freedom under the category “progressive”. As I said, just a reminder Reddit is not a good representation of human beings on earth as a whole
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Being in a safe country where your daughters & wives face way less dangers and have stronger legal protections, for example, has nothing to do with your pet peeves. Same as worker rights, a foreign concept outside specific countries. Same as social & state safety nets. Lower crime rates in every sector. Normal people care about these things.
Eihe3939@reddit
As I said, I don’t view those things as progressive per say. Of course normal people care about those things. I’m talking about the typical American culture war issues.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Dude, you mentioned gay rights unprompted when commenters said how progressive Spain is generally, nobody bring up american pseudo culture wars but you. If the word progressive triggers you for some reason that is a you problem.
Eihe3939@reddit
My point is that when someone talks about countries being progressive, they don’t usually firstly think of freedome of speech, wages, worker’s rights yada yada. They think of women’s rights, abortions, gay and trans, anti racism etc. doesn’t matter. Personally I really like the level of progressivism in Spain, it’s in a nice and healthy level. I’m Swedish and in my opinion it’s being pushed to hard here. That’s just my view :) so I’m looking for a more conservative country than Sweden , but not too much to the other side of the spectrum
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Yes, I've also heard that Spain is more progressive. I've compared the facts more closely, but I don't care about that factor either, but I understand that for some people it might be a determining factor.
SpainMoverExpat@reddit
I moved to Spain in 2019 and it is better than Italy, imo. The food debate for me isnt a debate - Spain has MUCH more than pizza and pastas which tire me out after awhile. I know, I know - Italy has amazing food outside those too - but Spain is severly underrated worldwide. Its a bit harder to make Spanish food as well. The language is more useful worldwide as well. However, both have their perks - I just chose Spain and coudnt be happier (well, the salaries suck, but thats for another thread). Let me know if you need any help moving here, I can give you some contacts!
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
I will never understand these comments, if you decide of your own free will to eat only pasta and pizza it is your fault, not the Italian cuisine since it is more varied and different than the Spanish one
SpainMoverExpat@reddit
Don't get me wrong, I wont turn down a good plate of carbonara. Gnocci is one of my favorite foods in the world. Just saying Spain is underrated worldwide (maybe?). I'd give the nod to Portugal and Greece for best food in Europe, if I had to keep it 100.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Because it's the preference of UK so you hear more about it in English. Italy is the preference (as a holiday spot) for Germans, and Greece is preferred by Romanians.
Original_Union_9875@reddit
Also italian economy is much less dependent on mass tourism. In other words most of italians do not give a fuck to speak english
maskrey@reddit
Spain is my favorite country is Europe (and overall). Italy is my least favorite.
Italy is dirty, people are cold, food is repetitive. The overall mood in Italy is just miserable. It gets a little better when you go south, but it's still markedly worse than Spain, Southern France, or even Greece.
Funny enough I went to Greece right in the middle of their financial crisis, and somehow it was still less miserable than Italy. Yes the money situation is part of why Italy is miserable, but it's not even the main reason. I feel like people in Italy care much less of how everything is presented: themselves, the infrastructure, basically everything is less polished. And this would be fine in Sri Lanka or something, but in a place where there is so much history, unique architecture and tradition, the lack of care creates a huge contrast.
bobbykid@reddit
I live in Italy and my impression is that this isn't quite true or is a little bit reductive at least. Italians care a lot about how they personally are presented; there is a strong focus on dressing well, smelling nice, having nice/new things (bike, car, furniture, workout gear, etc.), to the point that it can be a little intimidating as a foreigner. It actually reminds me a little bit of when I lived in Korea where people were obsessed with their image. I also find that Italians will also go to great lengths not to accept personal blame or be seen to be at fault for anything, to the extent that many people end up with huge bureaucratic problems because the people in the administrative process refuse to admit that they made a mistake or didn't know something. Personal image is very polished.
Italians might not care about how their cities, infrastructure, environment, etc. are presented because they don't see it as belonging to them personally and therefore they have no responsibility for it. There is sort of an attitude of "if it belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one (and certainly not to me)" among some people.
(Obviously these things don't apply to everyone in Italy, they're just cultural vibes that I've noticed over the last few years)
Original_Union_9875@reddit
You absolutely spot on. That's why Italy is such powerhouse of fashion, tailoring, design and everything related to the image. Hundreds of big and small brands from legendary one like Ferrari, Loro Piana, BVULGARI to small family-ran companies. The italian town-centers are often very elegant with beautiful palaces, squares, fountains and long promenades where people like walking ("passeggiata") and showing off. The avarage of italians is obsessed by dressing well. It's a cultural trait. Spain is much simpler and more lay back.
Responsible-Tone-471@reddit
Spaniards are way nicer. Way more open minded, welcoming, and LGBT-friendly. Way less provincial too.
Original_Union_9875@reddit
Mmmm... generally speaking you're right but Naples has very similar spanish vibe. A lot of troubles but much nicer, friendlier and outgoing people there. Not the same in the rest of country, especially in North Italy (and Florence either) people might be rude and sometimes racist
Sensitive_Lock_5863@reddit
I am french, I own an appartment in Spain so I know well Spain, and I worked in Italy and I went several times in vacation in Italy. Spain is much more opened to foreigners, and to everybody, it feels very modern. I saw LGBTQ+ openminds! Not in Italy. Spanish people are friendly, food is very good (in Italy it is no necessary to write that food is good). Nightlife in Spain in great, they really enjoy goeing outside ! Italy is much quieter. Driving in Spain is much better than in Italy, the worst country in europe for driving. Italian cities are dirty, with poor infrastructure : holes in street, in sidewalks, no big parkings. Last year in Roma we saw a kid fallen in a big hole, and being hurt! And no more water in our appartement "it happens sometime a few hours!" like in a third world country... Small cities in Italy can be very beautiful, more than in Spain. Both countries have a good climate and beautiful landscapes , but Spain has more variety, it has 3 deserts ! I went to the desert of baredenas reales, it is unbelivable, in europe ! Both countries are not very clean : sidewlks not that clean, graffitis on walls, it is a shame. I felt some racism while speaking to my Italian colleagues, and we know that foreigners are not welcome. Police is much more strich in Spain : you have to know that in Spain even by bike there is no tolerance , if I go with my bike on a sidewalk police can arrest me, unbelivable in Italy (there are no bikes in Italy ;-) or in France. I really prefer Spain.
Original_Union_9875@reddit
Not agree about the landscapes. Italy has places like Dolomites, vulcanos, Amalfi coast where mountains and sea meets each other and many other gems that are often UNESCO sites (Italy has largest number in the world)
HotAd6484@reddit
Overall, the Spanish are much more pleasant to be around. If you speak even a little Spanish (or one of the regional languages), the friendliness amplifies. At least that has been my experience in multiple trips to each country. Most Italians just seem angry all the time.
Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit
Italians are great but very direct and often quite brusque.
Original_Union_9875@reddit
It's impossible to classify italians in one category. Very diverse people. Italians from Veneto or Trentino are absolutely different from neapolitans or sicilians. Sardinians are a breed apart etc.
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
no it doesnt they have 1000 seperatist movements there who claim they speak their own languages.
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
Are you claiming that Basque, Aragonese, Galician, Catalan, Aranese, Asturleonese, and Castilian aren’t separate languages?
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
no i literally said you guys think you speak 1000 different langauges. i dont' give a shit personally
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
I can read and write English.
What do you think the above means?
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
do you not claim you have your own language?
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
It’s not a claim. Do you not know what that word means?
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
clain "state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof." did you provide evidence or proof to me? no. did you state you have your own language yes. what do you not understand?
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
Yes. I’m speaking to you in, de facto, a “language” it’s not a claim. That’s a fact.
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
to you maybe.
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
Are you drinking?
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
no. im not drinking. i jsut dont care enough to verify your claim. not interested in obscure europeans little fights
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
Then maybe you shouldn’t wade into what you don’t understand. Sit back. Listen and maybe you might learn something.
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
i can do whatever i want. you guys did it for hundreds of years, don't get all offended when others do the same lol
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
Who is you guys? Who are you addressing? What does that have to do whether English, of Castilian are languages?
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
europeans.
rexleonis@reddit
So are Sardinian, Sicilian, Calabrian, Neapolitanian etc. but none of them wants to break up Italy because of it.
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
I guess Italian fascism was more successful than Spanish fascism in forging that National identity, huh?
Eihe3939@reddit
I disagree. Italians are awesome, but you need some thick skin. I’d say they’re very similar people, especially from an outsider point of view
Puzzleheaded-Fix8182@reddit
Spanish people are warm and friendly. They have nice cities. The society is quite open (for the most part).
Italy (at least to me) is quite xenophobic and a bit too conservative for my liking. Italians are lovely outside of Italy.
Inside-Conclusion435@reddit
The best Italians I’ve met were descendants of Italians but born in Brazil 🤣
Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit
My observation:
In Spain, people are generally approachable, practical, and easy-going in the good way.
In Italy, people are generally overly frustrated, overly perfectionist (to the level or dysfunctionality), and they are quite rude sometimes. In Florence and Venice, they are quite a bit more "Northern", but in Rome and Napoli, there a many frustrated people that seem to be extremely undereducated by Western European standards, and are willing to raise their voice on you for slightly disagreeing their specific opinion about a minor thing.
Educational_One387@reddit
Hello, Spanish here, choose the one you want. Whether Spain is more popular or not cannot be a perception, both are countries with a lot of history, many things to see and very influential in the evolution of the Western world. From my Spanish point of view, Spain is better, but an Italian will tell you that it is not.
Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit
Well no as an Italian I think Spain is a more appealing destination for a foreign professional who wants to progress in their career. Salaries are flat, culture is very hierarchical, Italian (fluent) is needed unless you want to move to teach English. It is different for wealthy new residents who can take advantage of the flat tax from passive overseas income or digital nomads but even then bureaucracy can be a red flag
Snowedin-69@reddit
What is the Italian foreign sourced flat tax?
GroochtheOrc@reddit
I think its around 7 percent on passive foreign income, but I am still looking into how that's calculated and what counts as income. I don't think you are taxed on gains, just on actual income that enters your bank account from a foreign source, though I do think it doesn't matter if that money goes into a foreign or domestic bank account.
Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit
It’s based of personal experiences of highly skilled non Italian professionals who tried to find work in Italy. The only few who succeeded (rightly post covid) got an internal company transfer so multinational companies allowing remote work from a country where they have an office in. That comes with a downgrade in pay but probably still higher than the national average. Most cases I know either gave up trying to find employment or after moving and not finding employment.
Mission_Sympathy_915@reddit
Your points are really generic and biased against your country ( classic Italian)
martin_italia@reddit
No, an Italian will tell you Italy is horrible, only come here for holiday or if you’re rich, bla bla That’s what Italians do - they shit on their country, it’s their favorite pastime. He will tell you every country is better than Italy.
To answer OP, Both countries have a lot of the same problems - low salaries, stagnant job market, high cost of living in the cities where the jobs are, annoying burocracy
But Spain does do some thing better, socially it’s a little more progressive, Italy can still be very conservative, and slow to adapt to change
PassaTempo15@reddit
Italians really always describe Italy as if it was hell on Earth now that I think about it
William_Defro@reddit
Just watch how many kids born in Italy and how many young people escapes.
That already says a lot about how bad is living here
dangerislander@reddit
I mean look at the way Northerners speak about southern Italians. Yikes.
bakecskeee@reddit
Except for food. Any Italian I met in Spain complained how food in Spain is boring and shit, compared to Italy.
Matt_eo@reddit
And why do you think we always shit on our country, genius?
SpiderGiaco@reddit
Because we lack perspective and we just hate Italy. It's full of hyperbolic comments all over that paint Italy as if it's Somalia.
Privacy42@reddit
They have that in common with the French, who relish on complaining about France.
Being more progressive is not necessarily a good thing though…
Ghlynx@reddit
A „Little“ more progressive is a Huge Understatement
ThrabenInspector@reddit
Spot on.
Impressive_Fox_4570@reddit
Just wait for the turntable if a foreigner says so /s
IndependentRoof8181@reddit
Spain is beyond amazing honestly. I didnt live there long term but visited several times and now also considering moving there full time. Everything about spain to me is so pure and awesome. i think for me it's the mix of great culture while also being in europe and being able to go to so many other places nearby. South of Spain is epic. Give it a try. and good luck with your decision!
aguachilenegro@reddit
Spain has a much friendlier, more dynamic culture. By comparison, Italy feels quite conservative socially, in many respects.
(I’ve lived in both countries, and speak Spanish and Italian.)
Typical-Shoe770@reddit
Spain is more progressive than Italy when it comes to queer people rights to merry, have family
StriderKeni@reddit
Language factor may be one of the reasons? At least for Latin Americans, it's one of the first countries that comes to our minds when we think about moving abroad.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I didn't write about it because I don't speak either language. Italy has a slight advantage here because in the north they speak German, just like me, but it's probably too small a part of the country to limit myself to it.
mister_nippl_twister@reddit
Well for most of the people it is still a big reason. By learning spanish you open yourself to the whole of south america by extension too.
PassaTempo15@reddit
Contrary to popular belief, Portuguese has more speakers than Spanish in South America, although by a small margin. But with Spanish you also have most of Central America plus Mexico.
IDNWID_1900@reddit
But it is more about choice number that how many people speak said language. With portuguese you have to stick to Brazil and you may not like their current state. With spanish you have a wide variety of countries with wide differences between them.
That being said, I am spanish and I would choose Brazil without hesitation lol
PassaTempo15@reddit
Yea sure I totally agree. In terms of countries you have (way) more choices with Spanish, I just wanted to add that because when you say the “you open yourself to the whole of South America” that’s not really true, you open yourself for a bit less than half of the population in South America with Spanish
ProfeQuiroga@reddit
Más não oferece tanto na Europa. ;) And it's not the mere number of speakers that counts.
fetusbucket69@reddit
I don’t think so, Brazil’s population is 212 million and the other countries in SA combined (all of which speak Spanish as an official language) is nearly 222 million. So it seems to me there would be something like 10 million more speakers of Spanish
Wunid@reddit (OP)
To the half of south america to be precise. In Brazil (half of Population and surface of SA) they speak portuguese.
Darkliandra@reddit
What they speak in Tyrol is not German just like you 😂. Source, am German and dated a Tirolian once 😂.
WaltherVerwalther@reddit
They are bilingual in Standard German and their dialect. The dialect is mutually intelligible with some dialects in Germany. So for all purposes, yes, they speak German like in Germany.
alderhill@reddit
If anything, it would be German like in Austria, not Germany.
FakeCatzz@reddit
It's mostly mutually intelligible to people from Bavaria and Switzerland too.
Kanedgysan@reddit
Only South Tyrol speaks German in Italy
Matt_eo@reddit
In the North....in a tiny part of a region in the north. Not all north of Italy speaks German.
Privacy42@reddit
Crazy that you would get downvoted for that. Geese.
baudolino80@reddit
You’re wrong. In the north we don’t speak German! Do you think in Milan or Venice they speak German? Ahahahahaha
GlassCommercial7105@reddit
What a stupid comment
baudolino80@reddit
Explain why, please! German is not spoken in northern Italy, this is fact. Why do you think it is a stupid comment?
GlassCommercial7105@reddit
Is South Tyrol not Italy?
baudolino80@reddit
It is a very small portion of Italy… half million compared to 60 million. Now saying northern Italy speaks German it is funny to me!
GlassCommercial7105@reddit
If you live somewhere there and don’t commute much, you can get bye without Italian though. It’s wrong to say that nobody in northern Italy speaks German. You are glossing over a minority here, not a verz nice move.
rexleonis@reddit
Why?
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I meant Südtirol.
baudolino80@reddit
Ok, that’s fair but, and this is my personal opinion, it has nothing to do with Italy! You’re taking half million population against 27 million people living in northern Italy. I would love to no having them in my country and I bet my ass also they would love to not be part of Italy…
Wunid@reddit (OP)
But then Italy would lose its best athlete
CuriosTiger@reddit
When you're asking about popularity, you may want to think about factors that affect other people besides yourself. Not everyone is in your exact situation.
It's entirely possible that Spain is more popular with expats in general, but Italy may work out better for you personally.
AmbassadorVivid5378@reddit
Noice
SheWhoLovesSilence@reddit
I think infrastructure is a huge factor here. Spanish infrastructure is vastly better.
And I’m not just talking about transport, digital infrastructure as well. Although transport infrastructure is decidedly shit outside major cities.
I have Italian friends who are expats in my country and a friend of mine lived there for years. They tell me it’s a mess. Both due to corruption and that a lot of things vary from region to region. I think there’s still swaths of rural communities that don’t have reliable internet.
I’ve seen ads from rural administrations in Italy where they literally offer you money to move there and buy a house. That’s right, you get ownership of the house and instead of paying, they pay you. Because these towns are dying and they want to bring young people in who will invest. Haven’t seen the same from Spain.
Spanish admin is vastly better at using public money for good and ensuring a good quality of life for their people
William_Defro@reddit
Italy is based on corruption in every aspect.
GielM@reddit
Spain DID offer free houses in rural areas in the past. Dunno if they still do, dunno if they ever offered pay on top. But my cousin lived in Spain for half a year at one point because of this. Turns out living in a village halfway up a mountain with no internet, no running water, and only intermittent power was too much even for my hippie cousin and his hippie wife...
SheWhoLovesSilence@reddit
Then I guess they both have these blind spots infrastructure wise. Thanks for sharing
Fickle-Orchid1095@reddit
I am German too, I lived in Spain and in the Italian speaking part of Switzerland, thus, crossed the border to Italy pretty often. I believe I know both countries quite well.
To be honest, you are absolutely right. I applied for jobs in Italy and Spain and it was so much easier to get Interviews in Italy. What I loved the most about Italy is that they look at you as a human being first. My CV wasn't the best at that time, I had huge gaps, but they still gave me a chance! It was also noticeable how easy-going many Italians are when it comes to their language. They really motivate you to speak Italian and minor mistakes are not an issue AT ALL. You actually feel comfortable to speak Italian. The majority of Italians in bigger cities is absolutely able to speak English as well. They are super friendly to dogs which I absolutely adore as a dog owner and animal lover. Things can be a bit chaotic sometimes , for example, when you go to the hospital in Italy, it can be pure administrative chaos. Spain is more organized but I think they also care less about your personal situation. In Italy, if someone sees you struggling, they will help and it is also easier to make friends or acquaintances. People literally invite you over for food without wanting anything back. I made Italian friends super easily.
The only thing that makes Spain better is that overall, the Spaniards seem to be a bit more honest. Unfortunately, I had many Italians who lied to me, who make a show for social presentation but beneath it there was often ill intent. That can make Spain overall look a bit more stable from the outside, but socially and economically, the pushback will come back a bit more in Spain than in Italy. That means in Italy you can escape the overt bad person better than the overall social construct that pushes back against you in Spain. To me, Italians are a bit more humane, yes, they lie, yes, sometimes they are not honest, but overall, it is more alive, it lets you in, it has soul and heart. Something which I would personally be missing in the more stubborn and closed-off Spanish mentality with some regions that fight for independence, with their own languages and so on.
Maybe the majority of people decide for Spain in the end because of the language, it might be more useful, and there are far more Spanish speakers worldwide than Italian speakers so finding a job for them in Spain might be more easier than in Italy. For other people, Spanish might be more useful overall, so to practice your Spanish in Europe, of course you would go to Spain. That does not mean no one comes to Italy. Italian cities are full of expats and tourists so in the end, it is a highly personal choice.
In the end, it comes down to your economical situation, the languages you speak and what kind of values you have as a person. Someone who values a bit more structure, directness and aesthetics might prefer Spain, someone who likes it more emotional, open, imperfect and warm might prefer Italy.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I also have the impression that Spain is more for IT, and Italy more for engineering, when it comes to jobs. And as a German, how would you compare the healthcare systems to those in Germany? Healthcare and education for children are always important factors for me when it comes to where to live.
Fickle-Orchid1095@reddit
Healthcare: In Italy, healthcare is mostly free for residents through the Servizio Sanitario Nazionale (SSN). It covers GP visits, specialists, emergency care, vaccinations, and maternity. The system can feel chaotic at times, with long waiting lists and bureaucracy, but doctors are highly skilled and dedicated. English is often spoken in larger cities, making it easier for foreigners. Private healthcare is available for faster, more personalized care.
In Spain, public healthcare (SNS) is also free for residents. While technically solid, it can feel less personal, and language barriers can be a major problem, especially outside large tourist areas or in emergency situations. Overall, Spain is free and accessible, but Italy tends to feel more human-centered and attentive. Personally, I had a very traumatic experience in Spain regarding the healthcare system, which I cannot talk about here, but I am very disappointed in the way they treated a family member and from what I know from other Spaniards, this wasn't the first time this happened. So be aware, especially due to the language barrier they might not even help you at all on the telephone or when you need information.
Education: Kindergarten is optional in both countries. Fees generally range from 0–400 Euros per month, depending on location and family income. Elementary school is free in both Italy and Spain.
High school differs more significantly. In Italy, students enter highly specialized schools called licei, which focus on areas like science, languages, arts, or economics. Children specialize early, and the system is traditional and academically rigorous. University in Italy is challenging and often requires entrance exams for certain programs, but professors are approachable, and the environment is human-centered. Italian universities are especially strong in engineering and technical fields, producing highly competent graduates.
In Spain, high school students specialize later, giving them more general education before choosing a track. University admission is based on final high school grades, but if your grades do not meet the program’s requirements, you must take additional exams (PAU). Universities in Spain are also strong but tend to focus more on IT, digital services, and technology-related fields.
Careers: Italy is a powerhouse for engineering, manufacturing, design, and high-tech industries. If you aim for careers in engineering or medical fields, go for Italy. Spain is a hub for IT, tech outsourcing, and digital services.
Schnurzelburz@reddit
Just a small correction: Beckham law means 24% flat tax in Spanish income, and 0% tax on foreign income.
fix-faux-five@reddit
There are 500 million people speaking Spanish, compared to around 80 million people speaking Italian. This does make Spain more... international in a sense.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Does this mean that there are many migrants from outside Europe in Spain?
Impressive_Mix6052@reddit
Between Italy and Spain I would choose Portugal every day and night
Lord_JayJay@reddit
they are not as loud.
Swimming-Zucchini434@reddit
Spanish people are good vibes peoples. Italians seem more tense and imperious to me. Hard to explain.
Alma_Mater91@reddit
Because the Spanish do not have the superiority complex that Italians have. They don’t think they are the best in everything and better than everyone else.
Aggravating_Fly_2312@reddit
Meglio la Nigeria dell’italia. Un paese di merda del 4 mondo sotto ogni aspetto
Wunid@reddit (OP)
What are you talking about, my relatives from Poland worked in Italy in the 90s and they still remember how good it was in Italy
Aggravating_Fly_2312@reddit
Ah , negli anni 90 …. Si era il miglior paese del mondo , ma ora è raso al suolo
baudelo@reddit
For IT, there are much more opportunities in Spain than in Italy.
OilCompetitive1203@reddit
When I compared the two, Spain felt simpler. The visa process was clearer, private insurance was easier to get, and living costs in the cities I liked were more consistent than in Italy. A fund comparison tool from MovingTo helped me see the differences clearly, and in the end, Spain just fit my needs better.
poum@reddit
Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world, after mandarin.
RandomGuy-4-@reddit
By number of native speakers*
By speakers in general, english is spoken more.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Are you sure? I know some Indians who would disagree with that.
poum@reddit
Yes I am sure about that, it's very easy to search on the internet. Also, it's not very surprising; there's almost a whole continent that speak Spanish and India has 20ish official languages.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I think something's wrong. Which continent are you talking about? In South America, about half speak Spanish and the other half Portuguese. India has many languages, but also a large population. Perhaps the most popular language, Hindi, is spoken by more people than Spanish. Besides, the most popular language in the world is English, not Mandarin.
ali2326@reddit
English is the most spoken language in the world followed by Mandarin.
Source
Same-Alfalfa-18@reddit
In Italy most of the industry is in there northern Italy, which has shitty weather and very bad air quality. also there is fascist president in Italy.
Powerfulcase2008@reddit
When moving abroad, get a notarized copy of your ID. It saves time with banks and local services
DegenerateCnut@reddit
Spain is a much better place to live in. Italy nothing works as it should, buisness is slower and more complicated. Also Spain is the better country for enjoying life such as going out, beaches and yes I said it even the food is better. Also the locals are nicer in Spain, Italians especially northern ones can be very difficult ppl to put it nicely...they have a superiority complex and look down on foreigners.
Fit_Session354@reddit
WAY MORE Italians move to Spain than the other way around. Spain is perceived as having better opportunities and less red tape, especially if you enter into service businesses, like opening a restaurant.
SpiderGiaco@reddit
Spaniards simply don't emigrate, despite having the highest unemployment rate of the EU
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Yes, it probably also depends on the industry. As an engineer, I simply see Italy as a European powerhouse with advanced technologies, but services and even IT seem better in Spain.
Bottom-Bherp3912@reddit
SpiderGiaco@reddit
That's patently false. Even in my crappy home city there are dozens of foreign food places. And especially if you lived in Milan, there's no way you can say that.
AmbassadorVivid5378@reddit
Spain is more liberal. Italy has the Vatican in it
Impossible_Deal_4086@reddit
Because it's similar and better in every possible way.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I don't think so in every respect. However, I've listed a few points where Italy is better. Especially for engineers, as a country with many technology companies and the second largest manufacturing hub in Europe after Germany.
Good_Edge3050@reddit
Spain just works.
Italy, not so much.
Privacy42@reddit
Because Spain is cheaper overall?
Defiant_Virus4981@reddit
Reddit is very US-centric, and there are way more US citizens who know at least some Spanish than Italian.
l0udcat@reddit
Can the average American find Spain or Italy on a map?
Vladigraph@reddit
"An average American" is a completely unrealistic idea. The education approaches and standards are vastly different in different parts of the country.
chigeh@reddit
Spain is also more popular within Europe.
For the Dutch, Spain is the 3rd most popular option after Belgium and Germany (neighboring countries). https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/dashboard-bevolking/bevolkingsgroei/emigreren#:~:text=Waar%20verhuizen%20Nederlandse%20emigranten%20naartoe%3F
malhotraspokane@reddit
This is the answer that came to my mind too.
DesperateSteak6628@reddit
True, especially since both are notorious for the necessity of speaking the local language as not many are well versed in English, in particular outside of the largest cities
Winter-Bed-2697@reddit
I guess the main difference lies in how open Spain is vs. Italy. Spain is a live and let live society. It’s traditionalist, but not religious and not in the sense of gender roles, values etc. Compared to Italy it’s super progressive on LGBT rights, and that translates to other things as well. And many people note infrastructure. The economy is developing too in recent years and Italy just seems stuck with the same problems forever. But yeah, nothing beats Rome for sightseeing to me.
l0udcat@reddit
these are almost not connected in any way lol.
Winter-Bed-2697@reddit
Yes, it is connected to other social values as well, and the general level of openness, tolerance, vs. conservatism.
l0udcat@reddit
I can't agree that Italians are not "openness" by their character.
l0udcat@reddit
Ok, now compare with China.
Lhommeunique@reddit
I mean I don't know anyone with whom Spain is more popular, maybe cheap tourists. I would choose Italy any day of the week. The north has some gorgeous cities and decent living standards and once you learn the language Italians are just the nicest people in the world.
al_tanwir@reddit
Digital nomad visa.
Quirky_Pear_8777@reddit
Italy as a country is better than Spain, but Italy has no decent cities.
Italian landscape, food, culture and weather has way more variety, but Italy doesn't have a single major city that is not incredibly polluted and overrun by cars.
Spain has beautiful functioning cities and not crazy polluted like Madrid and Siviglia, and even by the sea like Valencia and Barcelona. Quite good for biking and walking and enjoying actually the place.
Italy has Genoa which is disturbingly dirty and degraded, Turin and Milan suffocating in smog in the Pianura Padana region, Palermo and Napoli are good only for tourism since local gov is insanely bad. All of them are car-dependent except Milan center which is crazy expensive (one of its street topped Manhattan for the highest price per sq meter, just to say how dysfunctional it is, thanks for the idiotic low-tax-for-rich scheme).
In short, if you are ok living in a small town by the Alps or the sea, driving everywhere, Italy is better.
If you want to live in a city, go for Spain
vanisher_1@reddit
Why spain isn’t better for living in a small city and driving everywhere? 🤔
Quirky_Pear_8777@reddit
> Italian landscape, food, culture and weather has way more variety
Denedra@reddit
This has to be a troll comment, Italy has some nice gastronomy, don't get me wrong, but they are usually stuck to a really good few plates. Only considering the tapas makes spanish cuisine more variable. The food variety between each zone of Spain can change completely (even inside Andalusia you can have such a variety of dishes that you can't see elsewhere) We have top 1 in the world vegetables and fruits...
About landscapes and weather... I agree Italy probably wins in the architecture and the cultural buildings, they have a clear cultural and historical background But in Spain you have everything, from the green and wet lands of the north, to incredible beaches all over the country, culturally diversed cities like Barcelona, to even volcanic almost caribbean isles like Canarias... We even have a desert, Tabernas, which was used to film Clint Eastwood western movies...
rexleonis@reddit
found the Spaniard
Denedra@reddit
I've been in Italy multiple times, last year I was in Le Langhe and Monteriggioni, drinking dolcetto d'alba and eating plin with a friend that lives there, delicious.
But again, I stand correct, its mostly different kinds of pasta /pizza, which don't get me wrong, its really good, but variety??? It doesn't even come close.
Spain has gone through various invasions of different civilizations that dropped both culture and gastronomy; Arabs, iberians, celts, tartessians, basques (which exist today), phoenixians and carthaginians, plus the ingredients and recipes brought from our colonies... Can't really compare both
rexleonis@reddit
I'm talking quality over quantity.
Asian cuisine for example is extremely diverse but not necessarily better quality than Italian cuisine.
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
The funny thing is that Italian cuisine is both more varied and of higher quality
Denedra@reddit
Well, historically Italy has always been specially active on constantly promoting and protecting their main dishes on an european level by registering them through the forcing of certificates like if their top cuisine was a registered trademark 😅
DOC/DOP, IGP, STG...
On the other side, Spain certificates are based on the base products to ensure the quality, origin and methodology used on their production.
Jamon de Jabugo DOP, Queso Manchego DOP, Aceite de Oliva Virgen Extra de Córdoba DOP...
Spain just hasn't focused on promoting its cuisine as cultural heritage but instead has focused more on innovation and avant-garde gastronomy rather than traditional certifications and marketing.
So oficially in the eyes of the European framework, Italy wins on quality, when in reality they are both quite on a similar level, they just promote their image better.
If you ask my personal opinion, as a culinary student... If they truly believe that grinding wheat into pasta and putting things on top of a loaf of bread makes them gastronomically superior, I'm happy for them! 😁
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
Your conception is unrealistic and wrong. It is Italian cuisine that is less homogeneous and divided into 20 different regional cuisines that embrace almost any type of ingredients, range and category of food.
Internal cultural differences, major foreign influences and a more recent unification make Italian regional cuisines absolutely more diverse and varied than Spanish ones.
Italian cuisine is objectively more varied than Spanish cuisine in every respect.
You can say the same about Italy, from the imposing Alps in the north to Sicily, embracing many more lakes and volcanoes or cities much more different from each other, from Trieste, Venice, Bolzano to Rome, Naples, Matera etc
Denedra@reddit
Italian detected
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
Spanish detected.
There are subjective things such as taste and there are objective things such as variety, Spain from a cultural and culinary point of view has less variety than Italy.
Denedra@reddit
The objective thing is to understand that the concept of tapas overshadows any variety Italy could offer, millions of endless tapas Plus our president is the most handsome ever, check mate.
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
Also the Concept of Pasta, Pizza, Gelato, Pesto, Aperitivo etc overshadows any variety of Spanish cuisine, and this naming only the most well-known foods outside Italy
Denedra@reddit
Wrong.
Everyone knows pasta and pizza, we also adapted the concept, and with better ingredients and creativity, we can make it better than you guys easily.
Hell, you guys are so rigid in your creations that even get mad when people break the pasta or add stuff to your plates to actually make them tastier.
Aperitivo is just a weaker and dull tapas with alcohol.
At least bring some of the actual good and unique stuff like tiramisu and stracciatella, not that creamy ice cream you guys call gelato...
Churros, torrijas, crema catalana, tarta de Santiago, arroz con leche, flan, pestiños, sobaos, roscos de semana santa, polvorones, mantecados, papajotes, panchineta, carolinas, coca, piononos... The list goes on and on
Illustrious_Land699@reddit
Not really since in Italy there are hundreds and hundreds of different ingredients, flavors and combinations that go on pasta and pizza while in Spain and other countries they are limited to very few dishes.
Breaking spaghetti in 2 means not being able to cook. Yet Italian cuisine is much more innovative, adding or changing an ingredient to an existing dish to create a new one is exactly how every Italian dish has been and is created but in Spain you are forced to add ingredients to Italian dishes because if you try to replicate them with local ingredients the taste will be bland compared to Italy.
The one intended for tourists yes, the one for locals tends to be richer than tapas and cheaper
Stracciatella and Tiramisu are not categories, but specific foods. I see that you don't have a real conception of food.
Denedra@reddit
Again wrong! Spain has more variety of ingredients than Italy, taking an example from seafood, Italy only has the Mediterranean sea, we have that and the Atlantic!!
Carbonara is bland and boring and that's why everyone has different ways to prepare it
The aperitivos for locals are cheap because they barely require any preparation and are meant to battle hunger before the big dish, same as everywhere
Brought actual dishes and specific foods because those are the most known and appreciated
But let's give it an extra resource, lets ask ChatGPT for example:
Which country boasts better ingredients and greater variety, Spain or Italy?
Good question — and one that sparks passionate debate! 😄 Both Spain and Italy have incredibly rich culinary traditions and biodiversity, but when it comes to ingredients and variety, the answer depends on what exactly we mean. Let’s break it down:
🇪🇸 Spain: geographic diversity and broad range of products
Strengths:
Huge range of climates: from Atlantic to Mediterranean, green north to arid south, and mountain regions — all of which create a wide array of ingredients.
Sea and mountains: Spain has more coastline than Italy, which means more fish and seafood (Galicia, Cantabrian coast, Mediterranean).
Iconic and diverse products:
Olive oil (Andalusia, Castilla-La Mancha)
Iberian ham (Extremadura, Huelva)
Wide variety of cheeses (Manchego, Cabrales, Idiazábal)
Galician seafood, Andalusian tropical fruits, Levantine citrus, Valencian rice...
Distinct regional cuisines: Basque, Catalan, Andalusian, Galician, and Canary Islands cuisines are almost separate culinary worlds.
Bottom line: Spain excels in internal variety and diversity of raw materials.
🇮🇹 Italy: refinement and outstanding agricultural products
Strengths:
Exceptionally fertile land: northern Italy is rich in dairy and grains, while the south produces top-quality fruits, vegetables, and olive oils.
Tradition of elevating simplicity: Italians are masters at highlighting a few perfect ingredients.
World-famous products:
Pasta, rice (Po Valley), tomatoes, cheeses (Parmigiano Reggiano, mozzarella, gorgonzola)
Cured meats (prosciutto di Parma, salami)
Wines (Barolo, Chianti, etc.)
White truffle from Piedmont, Amalfi lemons, Tuscan olive oil.
Protected designations: Italy has more DOP/IGP products than any other European country.
Bottom line: Italy shines in quality, refinement, and protection of traditional products.
⚖️ Side-by-side comparison: Aspect Spain Italy Geographic & climate diversity ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐ Seafood ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐ Cured meats ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Cheeses ⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Fruits, vegetables, legumes ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Product protection & regulation ⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Regional culinary innovation ⭐⭐⭐⭐ ⭐⭐⭐
👉 Summary:
Spain wins on variety and contrast of ingredients.
Italy wins on refinement, consistency, and product quality.
In short: If you want diversity and richness of raw materials, Spain probably has the edge. If you value perfection, tradition, and polished craftsmanship, Italy comes out ahead.
Would you like me to make a comparison table of key ingredient categories (oils, meats, seafood, cheeses, vegetables, grains, etc.) with examples from each country? It’s a great way to see their differences in detail.
Wrong, waste of time
Quirky_Pear_8777@reddit
No, it's just the truth.
- Italian cuisine is way more diverse than Spanish one. It's well known across the world. You might know only pizza and pasta, but that's not even scratching the surface. Even if you consider random appetizers as a whole cuisine, Spain doesn't come close
- Italy has Alps and Appennini mountains all over the country. It has also 3 active volcano's (Vesuvio, Etna and Vulcano)
- In terms of history, Italy has pretty much everything Spain has, plus much more
I love Spain, Spain is a beautiful country, rich of history and amazing cuisine, the people are amazing, the seaside and infrastructure is maintained way better than Italy and Spanish cities are waaay better than Italian ones, as I stated before.
But for the aspects mentioned above, Italy comes on top
Denedra@reddit
Italian detected
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Bilbao, Girona, Valencia, Granada, Seville, Oviedo etc have more differences among them than Italy has from western Greece.
blewawei@reddit
Based on what criteria?
West_Possible_7969@reddit
The criteria stated on the comment I answered.
H3aDacHe1990@reddit
Latinas.
Kanedgysan@reddit
As an italian living in Italy, I highly recommend u to choose Spain over Italy. It’s not bcz of weather or food, it’s bc you will in most cases get paid more in Spain for the same engineering job compared to Italy, I would also point out that Spain is on average cheaper than Italy, and that will make your wage more valuable. Spain also has a higher rate of ppl who speaks English compared to Italy, which in turn will make it easier to find/switch jobs in case u want a change of jobs or companies. The infrastructure are more modern and better kept in Spain compared to Italy, the quality of life (hdi) in Spain is higher, the healthcare system in Spain tends to better on average so if u get sick you won’t have to deal with long waiting times at hospitals.
With everything I’ve said, hope I helped u out and wish u the best^^
annapurnita@reddit
Simple answer: schadenfreude
Rare in Spain. Everywhere in Italy.
PureBuffalo8280@reddit
Schadenfreude is a German term not translatable into Italian.
Interesting-Tackle74@reddit
Austrian here. I've been living and working in Nothern Italy for a year. Not comparable to vacation. I would rather not do it again.
If I had to choose, I would pick Spain. But if I could stay here in Austria, I think I would stay.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I understand you, I'm inclined to move to Switzerland myself, but living in a warm country for, say, 2 years is also tempting, although it's not financially profitable.
Interesting-Tackle74@reddit
if it's only temporary for some years, why not? It can be a nice experience. But I think you will probably return to home after some time.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I never thought about staying there permanently. I'm just using the time until I have school-age children, because then I'll probably have to find a permanent place.
Interesting-Tackle74@reddit
Then do it, but plan it carefully and never destroy the bridges to Germany
Interesting-Tackle74@reddit
I understand you, too. I always wanted to move to a warmer country. But nowadays there are some regions in the south, where it can be really extremely hot for a long time in summer. Suddenly this topic can be a drawback sometimes. And of course there is the financial disadvantage.
OliveaSea@reddit
My dad’s side of the family is Italian, but they’re from a small island. He eventually left for the Netherlands because the economic situation back home wasn’t great. There was a lot of corruption and, in those small villages, life just kind of stood still.
My brother has always loved our father’s country, but when it came to building his own life he chose Spain instead. Not because it’s much better financially, but because the lifestyle there feels more modern and people are more open and welcoming to outsiders.
sancalisto@reddit
I find that people are freindlier in Spain, its cheaper there, much bigger with room to move, and generally more chill.
Bubbly_Ozzy@reddit
thanks for this. one point I haven’t seen mentioned yet is how the bureaucracy and language barrier differ between Italy and Spain for expats.
I've spent some decent time in both, Spain tends to offer more services in English (banks, admin offices,...), whereas in Italy you’ll often hit more doors that require Italian-only communication or navigating outdated systems. That alone can make a big difference in day to day comfort, especially if you’re not yet fluent.
having said that, in Spain, even those who claim to be fluent in English are...well, not so.
Nikonglass@reddit
I’ve also found that Italy has started to charge all kinds of small fees and taxes for everything, whereas I don’t get that too much in Spain. I don’t mind paying a fair price for quality, but I hate getting nickel and dimed for everything.
Worldly_Program_6270@reddit
no vengas a españa,
baudolino80@reddit
Madonna quanto sei stupido! Ti prego vattene in Spagna!!!!!
57A71C-FEEDBACC@reddit
To me Spain is better due to lower property tax than Italy.
gabriel-otero@reddit
Haven’t lived in either but I’ve slow traveled through both and what I can say is Spain feels a bit more modern. Easiest example for me is that in Madrid I can choose between a few Uber-like apps with clean, new cars, while in Rome I often have to argue with taxi drivers just to pay the correct price.
Lifestyle-wise both are amazing, food and culture are top tier in each. But that little edge makes Spain feel more “2025” than Italy to me. No hate to Italy though, I absolutely love the country and the people (and the wine)
Obviously being a native spanish speaker makes this comment slightly biased I guess?
lunarstudio@reddit
Spain has made some wise decisions about allowing foreigners to work there. For instance, the current DNV policies permit people to reside in Spain as long as they don’t take jobs away from locals. This approach brings in revenue while minimizing the loss of essential jobs. Similarly, NLV also needs to meet certain guaranteed income levels to avoid burdening the Spanish system. Additionally, foreigners are required to have private health insurance. Overall, Spain is attracting financial resources, while other countries are struggling.
On the other hand, Italy’s current government is increasingly perceived as hostile towards migrants or outsiders. For example, their recent (Spring 2025) restrictive and retroactive laws have abruptly stripped millions of people of their jure sanguinis (right by blood) Italian citizenship and intentionally limited Italian votes from abroad. This citizenship stripping is a clear violation of EU laws and is currently being contested in their courts. Individuals who felt a strong connection to the mainland no longer feel welcome, and this has had an economic ripple effect.
ExternalUserError@reddit
Well for one, a lot of people here aren’t Europeans and aren’t necessarily considering the local job market.
If you’re from the US or Canada, Spain has a lot of advantages: easier visa process, probably more favorable tax treatment, and shorter flights to visit home.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
I understand that from a non-European perspective, there may be other advantages. Although, when it comes to taxes, Italy is much better, with a good tax exemption program.
SeveralConcert@reddit
For me higher lgbt acceptance in Spain is its plus
SeveralConcert@reddit
For me higher lgbt acceptance in Spain is its plus
manlleu@reddit
When it comes to southern Europe, the farthest to the West, the most "civilized". As a Mediterranean.
Jolimont@reddit
Italy is pretty, Spain is happy. You choose!
No_Yogurtcloset_7831@reddit
Well some of Spain ain't ugly and some of Italy is. Like the non touristy places of Sicily
Sensitive_Lock_5863@reddit
Italy is pretty... depends where , there are awful quarters, graffitis
JimmyJohnJunior5@reddit
So true
createbuilder@reddit
more popular language and entertainment
Prahasaurus@reddit
Italy is great if you are older, have wealth and are retiring. Not so great when you are building a career.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
It's clear that Germany will be better at this, but Italy also ranks well among European countries when it comes to engineering. I'm Polish, and Italy is light years ahead of Poland in terms of technology and R&D.
AutumnalLavender@reddit
As a Spaniard, please don’t sugarcoat Spain
Puzzleheaded-Lab-635@reddit
As a Spaniard who has lived abroad. Spain is kinda awesome.
Eihe3939@reddit
Reddit is like this. Some countries are just chosen by the hive mind to be sugar coated into oblivion. Spain is an example of that, and even more so Japan.
Sel2g5@reddit
For work Italy for sure.
Men-Are-Bleh@reddit
I know a couple of LGBT Italians that moved to Spain because Spain is LGBT friendly unlike Italy.
GielM@reddit
I don't think it would be wise to move from Germany to Spain for LGBT rights though!
peachypeach13610@reddit
LGBT rights in Spain are excellent, nothing to envy to Germany or anyone else in Europe
GielM@reddit
Agreed. It'd be a sideways-move on that front. My sources come from Portugal, not Spain, but from those guys I got the feeling there's still more macho culture bullshit, and a lot more Catholic guilt, about those issues down there than there would be up north.
Laws may be the same. Homophobia's still real here up north too. Not common, but it does happen. I dunno how Italy does. I guess laws are about the same, but the culture might still be more unfriendly.
I'm not saying a move from Germany to Spain would be BAD for a LGBT person. But they should move for the nicer weather, not because they'd expect MORE rights or respect than they had in Germany.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
I can say homophobia is very minimal in Spain, in my small village of 5k people, a kid was allowed to dance with the girls in the school performance, and the major personally hugged and kissed him on the cheek after. We fly the pride flag on even small (1-2k) town halls, it's the norm.
West_Possible_7969@reddit
Italy is horrible on that front (by EU standards). Spain has more protections & lgbt rights in constitutional level than Germany and Spanish violent crimes rate & attacks are lower than Germany’s on the whole, and that holds true for this topic as well since there is an increase in attacks on LGBTQ+ events and individuals, particularly related to far-right attitudes in Germany.
Men-Are-Bleh@reddit
Germany’s main advantage is its economy, which has gotten worse in recent years.
gawyntrak@reddit
You would br wrong, Spain is more progressive in that regard too. https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/
Dapper_Flamingo7590@reddit
They're nicer people.
Eihe3939@reddit
Nah. They’re practically the same
HogeyHo1@reddit
My pp
Ziemad@reddit
I would prefer to live in Italy if I ignored the fact about low salaries and absolute horrible job market. Also getting documents in Italy is pain in the a$$, they’re too slow
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
Spain is more popular bc out of the two ghetto countries, Spain has more latinos hence more social life and more interesting.
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Italy seems more western and posh which can also be interesting.
Ok-Pen8580@reddit
i don't know where you think is more "posh" and "western", definitely not southern Italy. Northern Italy like Milan and such is not any more posh than Barcelona
Glass_Chip7254@reddit
Lots more people speak Spanish, makes complete sense to me that the demand for Spain would be higher. Plus, it’s been a popular destination for British people, Germans and Russians for decades
Difficult_Pop8262@reddit
Far more progressive and forward looking. Modernizing itself constantly. More open minded, especially for younger people. It's all branding.
Italy feels that the 60s defined their personality and now they can't get over it.
I still prefer Italy. Under the surface, it is a better country to live in, in my opinion.
6-foot-under@reddit
Italy is gorgeous but I find so many things there inexplicable, and no one is interested in explaining why they can't or won't do something. Also, many things are bizarrely un-userfriendly: a trivial example are train stops that have one small sign in the middle of the platform and no voice announcing the stop. I haven't experienced so much frustration in Spain.
Otherwise_Repeat_294@reddit
Brits that love sun, cheap booze, and sandy beaches
Kcufasu@reddit
How's that relevant to a German asking why they see people around them picking spain over Italy?
Some-Entertainer-250@reddit
He’s telling you why Spain is more popular. Of course the way he says it is provocative, but there’s some truth in it.
Shallow_Waters9876@reddit
I don't think citizenship matters, if you are European. For the rest of things, it's a matter of preference. I do think there are a lot of similarities. Maybe travel a bit to both and see where you feel more at home? In both countries, it's really city dependent. (Also food in Spain is also great!)
urano123@reddit
🏗️ 1. Planned tourism development during the Franco regime
In the 1950s and 1960s, Franco's regime committed to tourism as a key source of foreign currency.
The Stabilization Plan (1959) was created and a deliberate "Spain is different" policy was promoted to attract European visitors.
The massive construction of hotels and apartments on the Mediterranean coast and islands was encouraged.
In Italy, on the other hand, tourism growth was more spontaneous and decentralized, without such a national strategy.
🏖️ 2. Greater specialization and homogenization of the product
Spain opted for a model of mass sun and beach tourism, with specific destinations (Benidorm, Torremolinos, Salou, Mallorca, etc.) designed almost exclusively for vacation tourism.
Italy diversified its offering more (cultural, gastronomic, mountain, religious), so "sun tourism" was never dominant.
Spanish beaches tend to be wider, sandier, and more accessible than Italian beaches, which are often narrower or private.
💶 3. Foreign investment and accessibility
Spain attracted a lot of foreign investment (British, German, French) in hotels, second homes, and charter airlines.
Infrastructure (highways, airports, high-speed rail) was developed earlier and better than in much of Italy, which facilitated mass tourism.
Spain became a cheap and reliable destination for the European middle class from the 1970s onwards.
🏢 4. Professionalization of the sector
The Spanish tourism sector became industrialized and professionalized: large hotel chains (Meliá, Riu, Barceló, Iberostar) were created with foreign customers in mind.
In Italy, small family-run hotels or local cooperatives predominate, with fewer economies of scale and more limited international marketing.
🌤️ 5. International image and stability
Spain projected an image of safety, sunshine, and hospitality, while Italy, especially the south, was burdened for years by a perception of instability and disorganization.
In addition, Spain has maintained a better quality/price ratio for decades, which has consolidated tourist loyalty.
InfraScaler@reddit
Thanks ChatGPT
Realistic-View-412@reddit
Where do you receive offers, i find myself being the one looking for offers mainly
Is it like a strong portfolio somewhere or linkedin?
Wunid@reddit (OP)
Mainly on LinkedIn. I don't know if I have a strong portfolio or if it's more of an immediate industry need. When I send out my CV, I'm usually invited for an initial interview.
Realistic-View-412@reddit
Okay thank you!!!
whatshouldwecallme@reddit
Language. Also the sand beaches of Spain have long been popular holiday destinations for the English.
Zealousideal_Flan303@reddit
“with a 70/90% tax exemption on income“ is this the “rientro dei cervelli”? Because that changed some time ago