Remember wehn Russians bots used to call these guys terrorists and claim they were protecting minorities? They are training the same people who they called Isis a few years ago.
Yeah, I was having a hard time following the article's argument because I kept thinking this is just the same as the West did.
The guy was officially a terrorist in US terrorist list until a few months ago, but Russia is far-fetched for negotiating with the former terrorist and changing its designation?
At least be honest and point out everyone is now holding hands with the former terrorist.
What's unique about Russia here? The west did this too. Jolani was literally classified as a terrorist - never mind by bots, but by the US govt. Itself! - not long ago. Now he's being wooed. This is how geopolitics works.
Is it really a “u-turn”? I see it as common sense. The Russians have always adjusted and attempted to exploit.
U.S. foreign policy is failing. Assad’s fall was an opportunity. The opportunity got squandered because our government is not acting on behalf of the interests of Americans.
The fall of Assad worked perfectly for America, Syria has gone full neoliberal and has US aligned leadership who will not raise a finger against Israel. In 20 years American foreign policy has decapitated nearly all resistance to Israel in the region, it’s been their primary goal
It could have been about removing Assad. We could have made post-Assad Syria into a US ally. Cultivating an ally would have had long term strategic value.
Conversely if we do not really need allies in the middle east then we are wasting ridiculous amounts of money and effort there.
Perhaps, but ultimately all of it depends on American hegemony. Israel depends on American hegemony more than ever before. Which is why I've said before that ultimately it'll be China that determines the fate of the region, even if they barely get involved in it. If their conflict with China doesn't go America's way, resulting in that hegemony cracking, then Israel will lose out to. Pretty much every nation in the ME hates them, even western allies like Turkey. The only reason they stay their hand is due to America. Remove America from the equation and Israel will be stuck in a constant war. Even people in far away nations like Indonesia will send resources against it.
I agree, and the hegemony is going to fade as America’s collapse continues. The danger is that they (America and Israel) won’t take this lying down and will kill as many people as possible in a desperate attempt to cling on.
Who said I want anyone to die? It is going to be America and Israel doing the killing because they can’t not. It’s not in their nature to allow themselves to lose, they will exhaust every murderous option.
Nobody allies with Putin if they have other options.
Is this your arrogance speaking? Africa for example is full of countries the west has been trying to win over, and they've stuck by Putin. Asia and Latin America also have a myriad of countries who could align with the west, but have chosen not to turn on Russia (nor China). Even Europe has countries who've stuck by Putin, despite it evoking the ire of Brussels.
And it is very much too late, Trump or no, cos the Dems also stood by Israel. The US has shown itself to be consistently and unflaggingly on Israels' side, and that matters more to the countries in the ME than your Trump obsession. They don't hate Trump as much as liberal westerners do, because most of the things liberals hate him for matter little to them. What bothers them is how much the US sticks up for Israel, and that is hardly unique to Trump.
Africa for example is full of countries the west has been trying to win over, and they've stuck by Putin.
You mean African warlords that rely on Russian mercenaries to suppress their rivals and continue to make their fortunes with blood diamonds/oil or whatever other natural resources can be extracted with slave labor. US may want them on their side but aren't going to let them operate their racket with impunity like Russia will. They really don't have other options if they don't want to become something more than a mafia state.
Asia and Latin America also have a myriad of countries who could align with the west, but have chosen not to turn on Russia
North Korea and Iran don't count, they don't have other options. Everyone else just trades with Russia for access to cheap resources (mostly oil though) and maybe throws Russia a bone once in a while, but there a reason you don't hear about Russian soldiers equipped with South American weapons for example. At best you can say that Russia is poaching cannon fodder from Cuba, but Cuba is not happy about it and have warned residents not to sign up.
Even Europe has countries who've stuck by Putin, despite it evoking the ire of Brussels.
Again taking advantage of cheap oil and gas, once that's gone so will these regimes be gone, just like Assad fell.
And it is very much too late, Trump or no, cos the Dems also stood by Israel.
Putin called for the head of the current leader of Syria and supported the Assad regime, I think that ranks them a little lower than Democratic support of Israel, especially when said support only decreases over time for Democrats.
that matters more to the countries in the ME than your Trump obsession.
I think you are confusing me for someone else. I don't know what the opposite of obsession is, but I look forward to the day that I don't have to hear shit about Trump anymore. I really don't care. Hell I didn't even know about the dude who collapsed in the Oval Office earlier this week until I saw SNL do a skit about it.
They don't hate Trump as much as liberal westerners do
Trump is too pathetic to hate, too predictable to be entertaining, too weak to be a serious threat, too senile to even have anything coherent to say. Your spending far more energy obsessing about him than I ever have.
What bothers them is how much the US sticks up for Israel, and that is hardly unique to Trump.
There are enough peace treaties between Israel and their neighbors to show that the issue isn't a deal breaker, its specifically the Netanyahu government that nobody can trust, and Democrats hate Netanyahu as much as everyone else even if they can't let that solely decide their foreign policy. The Biden administration did everything they could to help the Palestinians though, and whatever Democrat wins in 2028 is going to have to take a harsher stance on Israel to do so. Even a lot of American Jews are less than enthusiastic about what Netanyahu is doing right now.
I mean Syria is way more aligned with Turkey than they are the Russians? It’s doubtful that the new Syrian government will be able to counter balance anything and will be used to prompt up other countries interest. The Saudis Qatar and uae gets to build whatever they want at a premium most likely the Russians gets its port and resumes patrols and Turkey gets to sell military hardware. And the Israelis? Nobody really cares and they protect their Druze proxies in the south, the Americans gets to keep their allies in the SDF but inside a Syrian command structure
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Nevarien@reddit
US' U-turn in Syria
UN's U-turn in Syria
Since we are talking "u-turns"...
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
Remember wehn Russians bots used to call these guys terrorists and claim they were protecting minorities? They are training the same people who they called Isis a few years ago.
Professional-Way1216@reddit
Isn't that true for everyone ? Joulani was literally on the US terrorists list, now they are shaking hands.
Nevarien@reddit
Yeah, I was having a hard time following the article's argument because I kept thinking this is just the same as the West did.
The guy was officially a terrorist in US terrorist list until a few months ago, but Russia is far-fetched for negotiating with the former terrorist and changing its designation?
At least be honest and point out everyone is now holding hands with the former terrorist.
BabylonianWeeb@reddit
Never claimed that the US is innocent in that regard, stop putting words into my mouth
Professional-Way1216@reddit
And I never claimed you believe US is innocent.
I simply added more context - that everyone does the same in this regard, no difference between Russian bots, or Western bots.
BendicantMias@reddit
What's unique about Russia here? The west did this too. Jolani was literally classified as a terrorist - never mind by bots, but by the US govt. Itself! - not long ago. Now he's being wooed. This is how geopolitics works.
RubberDuckRearGunner@reddit
Kinda normal in the world of politics
NearABE@reddit
Is it really a “u-turn”? I see it as common sense. The Russians have always adjusted and attempted to exploit.
U.S. foreign policy is failing. Assad’s fall was an opportunity. The opportunity got squandered because our government is not acting on behalf of the interests of Americans.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Squandered? Huh?
The fall of Assad worked perfectly for America, Syria has gone full neoliberal and has US aligned leadership who will not raise a finger against Israel. In 20 years American foreign policy has decapitated nearly all resistance to Israel in the region, it’s been their primary goal
NearABE@reddit
It could have been about removing Assad. We could have made post-Assad Syria into a US ally. Cultivating an ally would have had long term strategic value.
Conversely if we do not really need allies in the middle east then we are wasting ridiculous amounts of money and effort there.
BendicantMias@reddit
Perhaps, but ultimately all of it depends on American hegemony. Israel depends on American hegemony more than ever before. Which is why I've said before that ultimately it'll be China that determines the fate of the region, even if they barely get involved in it. If their conflict with China doesn't go America's way, resulting in that hegemony cracking, then Israel will lose out to. Pretty much every nation in the ME hates them, even western allies like Turkey. The only reason they stay their hand is due to America. Remove America from the equation and Israel will be stuck in a constant war. Even people in far away nations like Indonesia will send resources against it.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
I agree, and the hegemony is going to fade as America’s collapse continues. The danger is that they (America and Israel) won’t take this lying down and will kill as many people as possible in a desperate attempt to cling on.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Chill tough guy.
Enough of trying to kill anybody.
If that happens, Israel will definitely be left behind with the US returning to the American continent.
Whether that turns to a blood bath is still dependent on what the involved parties think.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Tough guy?? lol wrong gender
Who said I want anyone to die? It is going to be America and Israel doing the killing because they can’t not. It’s not in their nature to allow themselves to lose, they will exhaust every murderous option.
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
Seesh tough girl, that's enough killing from you.
Take a chill pill and get of this reddit and some good ol not doom scrolling.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
Virtual-Pension-991@reddit
last resort my dear tough girl.
What happens is still left to the involved parties if they're willing to choke on a nuclear war.
ZhouDa@reddit
It's probably not too late once Trump is gone. Nobody allies with Putin if they have other options.
BendicantMias@reddit
Is this your arrogance speaking? Africa for example is full of countries the west has been trying to win over, and they've stuck by Putin. Asia and Latin America also have a myriad of countries who could align with the west, but have chosen not to turn on Russia (nor China). Even Europe has countries who've stuck by Putin, despite it evoking the ire of Brussels.
And it is very much too late, Trump or no, cos the Dems also stood by Israel. The US has shown itself to be consistently and unflaggingly on Israels' side, and that matters more to the countries in the ME than your Trump obsession. They don't hate Trump as much as liberal westerners do, because most of the things liberals hate him for matter little to them. What bothers them is how much the US sticks up for Israel, and that is hardly unique to Trump.
ZhouDa@reddit
You mean African warlords that rely on Russian mercenaries to suppress their rivals and continue to make their fortunes with blood diamonds/oil or whatever other natural resources can be extracted with slave labor. US may want them on their side but aren't going to let them operate their racket with impunity like Russia will. They really don't have other options if they don't want to become something more than a mafia state.
North Korea and Iran don't count, they don't have other options. Everyone else just trades with Russia for access to cheap resources (mostly oil though) and maybe throws Russia a bone once in a while, but there a reason you don't hear about Russian soldiers equipped with South American weapons for example. At best you can say that Russia is poaching cannon fodder from Cuba, but Cuba is not happy about it and have warned residents not to sign up.
Again taking advantage of cheap oil and gas, once that's gone so will these regimes be gone, just like Assad fell.
Putin called for the head of the current leader of Syria and supported the Assad regime, I think that ranks them a little lower than Democratic support of Israel, especially when said support only decreases over time for Democrats.
I think you are confusing me for someone else. I don't know what the opposite of obsession is, but I look forward to the day that I don't have to hear shit about Trump anymore. I really don't care. Hell I didn't even know about the dude who collapsed in the Oval Office earlier this week until I saw SNL do a skit about it.
Trump is too pathetic to hate, too predictable to be entertaining, too weak to be a serious threat, too senile to even have anything coherent to say. Your spending far more energy obsessing about him than I ever have.
There are enough peace treaties between Israel and their neighbors to show that the issue isn't a deal breaker, its specifically the Netanyahu government that nobody can trust, and Democrats hate Netanyahu as much as everyone else even if they can't let that solely decide their foreign policy. The Biden administration did everything they could to help the Palestinians though, and whatever Democrat wins in 2028 is going to have to take a harsher stance on Israel to do so. Even a lot of American Jews are less than enthusiastic about what Netanyahu is doing right now.
bippos@reddit
I mean Syria is way more aligned with Turkey than they are the Russians? It’s doubtful that the new Syrian government will be able to counter balance anything and will be used to prompt up other countries interest. The Saudis Qatar and uae gets to build whatever they want at a premium most likely the Russians gets its port and resumes patrols and Turkey gets to sell military hardware. And the Israelis? Nobody really cares and they protect their Druze proxies in the south, the Americans gets to keep their allies in the SDF but inside a Syrian command structure
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