A question | TheaterFire

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Agent8699@reddit

Soul Possession.

It tries to “fix” a plot hole which had been somewhat satisfactorily resolved years ago by once again throwing Gabrielle’s character under the bus by having her make another deal with Ares. And the writing of Xena and Ares’ relationship for a season 3/4 setting made no sense - it was written with Ares’ development in seasons 5 and 6 in mind.

The modern day stuff seemed to once again err too much in favour of mocking the hardcore, nutball Xenites as opposed to simply acknowledging them.

But, it’s the flashback stuff which irks me the most. Especially the laziness (?) of getting stuff like the chakram wrong.

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

The thing is I believe there *was* still a plot hole with Gabrielle's understanding/explanation in Family Affair about how she survived. Who's to say she didn't lose her memory of what transpired between her and Ares in Sacrifice as depicted in Soul Possession, the way she forgot what happened between them (retrospectively) in The Debt as outlined in Forget Me Not.

Maybe what should have happened is:

Multi-part episodes that start in the present with a flashback to Gabrielle sacrificing herself
Then a voiceover saying what Xena did next and we see the Adventures in the Sin Trade episodes and Xena realises Gabrielle is still alive
She returns to Greece and we see the 'historical' scenes in Soul Possession.
Then Xena heading off to find out for herself where Gabrielle is - first checking that she wasn't in the lava pit after all, because you just can't trust what Ares says.
Then we see A Family Affair.
Then you finish in the present time where Ares turns up again and swaps the bodies around so that our Mattie goes off with Annie, just as it should be.

Convoluted I know.

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Agent8699@reddit

Except Gabrielle dives into the lava pit with Hope knowing she’s going to die to stop Hope and save Xena.

Then mere seconds into her fall, she decides to make a deal with Ares to save Hope?

And that’s after everything that has happened? We’re still meant to believe that Gabrielle would make another deal with Ares to save Hope?

And then in A Family Affair, she plays a critical role in the murder of Hope and her grandson, but doesn’t seem to care too much about either death (although to be fair, it’s not like she could mourn in front of Xena).

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Well what can I say - Ares lies, so he probably didn't tell the truth about the deal he and Gabrielle made anyway. Or maybe it was a fever dream or a fantasy or just another way he tried to undermine the relationship between the girls, or , any other myriad of reasons why TPTB allowed it to be produced the way it was. They obviously wanted to bring Ares back one last time, but had no idea what storyline to do that with. It really looked like it was thrown together at the last moment, didn't it.

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Agent8699@reddit

Yes, absolutely! I think they spent more time on Xena’s wedding dress than they did the script.

They could have had Xena and Gabrielle imprison Ares in his tomb.

Or a true “lost scroll” episode from season 3 or 4 (given ROC’s wig / extensions were tolerable in the Norse trilogy) with Ares. Maybe something to do with the Kronos Stone to explain why Gabrielle would hide the scroll 📜

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Logs of missed opportunities. They should at least have come up with something feasible about the "old" chakram in The Xena Scrolls.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

The undermining of Gabrielle's apparent sacrifice at the end of Season 3 is another thing the writers should really answer for.

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ImaginaryStrategy215@reddit (OP)

I see that my question about which episode of Xena you liked the least has turned into a sort of trial of "Soul Possession," which I frankly did not expect, and I am amazed at the number of fans who detest this episode, which I have never hesitated to include among my favorites. Yes, there are inconsistencies in the plot that would link it to Gabrielle's finding in "Family Affair," but tell me, where are there no inconsistencies in the entire series? Xena is a series that has made inconsistencies its trademark, starting with historical events that actually took place centuries apart but overlap in a few episodes in the series (I don't think I need to give you any examples). For me, "Soul Possession" is an episode that satisfactorily concludes the contemporary Xena and Gabrielle storyline, and I wouldn't have minded at all if it had aired as the series finale, after the tragic "A Friend in Need," to give some relief to heartbroken fans. In fact, to tell you the truth, when I rewatch Xena, I always watch it last, along with "When Fates Collide."

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ShondaVanda@reddit

Fishsticks or Soul Possession, both just take up space that could have been taken up by better episodes. Soul Possession is a real 'wtf' to continuity, not sure why Tapert felt we didn't have closure on how Gabrielle survived ...

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multiplecats@reddit

I think Soul Possession, apart from Gabrielle, was just part of the show's epilogue about how Ares is re-entering the world after Janice accidentally freed him. The modern eps (plus the two over on Herc) follow Ares as he stalks the production of the shows because the shows have brought back Xena and Hercules, kinda throwing a wrench in his plans. It's kind of a bummer this aspect of the story gets so overshadowed or lost in the confusing story arcs about the past lives or Gab surviving the pit.

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IseQween@reddit

The Ares bit totally escaped me. I frankly threw all logic and continuity out the window with SP. I mainly enjoyed it as a family reunion of sorts, with the varied moments/memories ranging from nice to frustrating, mixed in with emotions this would be the last time I'd see folks in the same room together.

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Maleficent-Trifle940@reddit

Kevin Smith's last line in the entire series is hauntingly ironic, it just brings me to tears every time.

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IseQween@reddit

Oh same here, on so many levels! I remember him first saying, "Until next time," in RECKONING.

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Maleficent-Trifle940@reddit

I watched SP before Reckoning so only recently realized his last line in the last ep was actually a call back to Ares last line in his first ep and not just.. well..

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

Soul Possession I've always found pretty bad. I do like that it ends with Xena. Gabrielle and Joxer alive in the future together though. I felt if they wanted to do a flashback episode at that point they should have done a missing adventure from the past with the three of them.

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multiplecats@reddit

I do too. And I wish they'd have also had Ares' epilogue episodes, about his modern day aspirations and the two shows and the scrolls, had all been aired together near or at the end of the series. But not as an offshoot of the Hope story. Just as a story on its own. It would have made a much more obvious story that the fans of the show are themselves taking Xena and Hercules into the world too, thus the two heroes are becoming more powerful than ever and making it hard for Ares to rule the modern world.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

I like that idea.

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ImaginaryStrategy215@reddit (OP)

I agree about "Fishsticks" (how could I not?), but not about "Soul Possession," which for me concludes the storyline that began with "Deja Vu All Over Again" in season four, reassuring us that Xena and Gabrielle have survived to the present day (and in the right bodies).

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FirefighterThink1556@reddit

I wouldn’t be bothered by Soul Possession, I do kind of appreciate what it does with the modern plot, and there are some really nice moments, but I think the explanation for Gabrielle surviving is so godawful and frankly impossible that I would prefer the whole episode just didn’t exist

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NoReach1699@reddit

That's my only reason to want erase soul possession too

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ShondaVanda@reddit

But we already had closure from the clones episode. now there's 2 xenas and 2 gabrielles running around? not to mention Melinda from the xena scrolls episode.

It just felt unnecessary.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

The clones didn’t have actual Xena and Gabrielle’s souls so they wouldn’t have given us closure, just fun images of Xena and Gab surviving in the modern world. Harry/Annie and Mattie get married in Soul Possession as a huge show of fan service so that’s the real closure

I love all three eps though, Clones, Xena Scrolls, and Soul Possession

BUT! 100000% agree with you that the continuity in Soul Possession + A Family Affair is a mess. Rob wanted to answer questions I don’t think anyone really had, per se, and in doing so he punched several more holes in the plot lol oops

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ShondaVanda@reddit

I think I'd rather they just cram the future stuff into an episode that's already weird like You Are There.

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ChippieChamp@reddit

Married With Fishsticks wasn’t a bad episode, but I agreed it took up space and could have an episode.

That could resolve the Hope issue, giving Gabrielle some closure and move on. While I agree Soul Possession is somewhat, another waste of an episode of a season and didn’t really explain.

How Gabrielle survived or gotten out of the pit, also made no sense how Gabrielle traded her soul to spare Hope.

Only Gabrielle to ask, why Hope isn’t dead. In A Family Affair, if Gabrielle purpose is to spare Hope.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

Xena Warrior Princess for me without Fishsticks we would be missing something truly enjoyable and offbeat - and lots more Renee! I love that episode.

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IseQween@reddit

LIFE BLOOD. I always accepted XWP wasn't "my" show, no matter how much I love it. It was as much a business as a creative endeavor. The producers fiddled with a lot of things to increase crossover interest, fuel controversy, fulfill their personal obsessions, satisfy advertisers or censors. I didn't like much of that, but felt they were doing so within their vision of the overall series. They had the right to insert a completely different show outside the Herc-Xenaverse. LB had good, familiar actors within an established Amazon context, yet that was the one time I felt TPTB crassly used XWP to service needs external to their vision of the show, making its major characters supporting puppets. I don't respect LB for that reason as representative of either TPTB's show or what I'd come to see as mine.

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

Lifeblood was not great. I wish it hadn't happened. In fact I think it was worse than Married with Fishsticks (and I still don't see the point in that episode!) Can't help but wonder how Danielle Cormack and Karl Urban felt about it, considering the stellar performances, and memorable characters they played in other episodes of the series.

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rosalui@reddit

They're very well-made, but for me it's the Gurkhan episodes. They explore a truly graphic kind of gendered, sexualized violence that Xena rarely dipped into.

I enjoy King Con, though. It's fun and silly. I love a team of criminals plotting and scheming.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

Sorry once again I love Gurkhan. Yes the subject matter has some disturbing elements but its an absolute classic and an amazing showcase for Renee.

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

I also love Who's Gurkhan. It shows the lengths Xena will go to in order to protect Gabrielle - and how it's her thoughts of Gabrielle that get her through that very brutal beating. Renee does an excellent job portraying Gabrielle in this episode - her anger and hatred and then you have Xena agreeing to facilitate what Gabrielle *thinks* she wants to do, which I'm sure was very hard for Xena to let her do, instead of just killing Gurkhan herself.

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NoReach1699@reddit

It's my fave of season 6. Love every second of it

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

I absolutely will never watch the Gurkhan episode again. That violence is not something I need to see.

I also find The Abyss repellent and terrifying, but I do appreciate the meaningful cave scene in the water.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

I love the Abyss for its intensity and atmosphere. Another classic of season 6.

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ViolinViolence@reddit

Agree with you on Gurkhan and the Abyss. Watching them as a kid when these came out always stood out as interesting, well done, intense and frankly, adult. As a child I grew up watching more adult content and the funnier lighter episodes didn't appeal to me as much (I appreciated them more as the years went on.) the darker, more adult episodes spoke to me more and still do. Sam Raimi's touch comes out every once and awhile.

I don't agree on In Sickness. As a kid, this was one of the comedic lighter episodes that stood out to me. A bit over the top sometimes, but it doesn't bother me.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

Wow that’s something I hadn’t thought of before about Gurkhan. I actually don’t disagree with you, when I think about it, even if I do enjoy the ep. The torture scene is degrading, more so if I didn’t think about how Xena could get out if she wanted to and it was her choice to be there.

But there are some choices they make in the series, like what happens to Gabrielle in The Deliverer where I feel a bit disappointed in the writers for relying on degrading women tropes when 90% of the time they are mindful of avoiding those, it just feels like they know better but they go there anyway for the shock/ratings.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

I think the torture sequence in Gurkhan was actually well handled and adequately showed the horror that went on in Gurkhan's world. What happened to Gabrielle was much more disturbing to me and I've never forgiven the writers for going there.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I agree the torture in Gurkhan is important to the story but, like The Deliverer, I’m like “But why was that even the story you picked then if you knew those themes were going to be important? Why put them in that position at all?” That’s my thing.

I give them a lot of grace because I know it’s never done out of malice because I know how much reverence and care everyone had for those characters as they wrote them. But I’m just looking at the 90s with my 2025 eyes knowing if they made them again today, they probably wouldn’t have picked those stories for their heroes cuz it’s not the coolest to violently degrade women, however super or powerful they may be, as a plot device.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

I think in the case of Gurkhan its a strong story of women empowering themselves over violence ultimately and Gabrielle facing a gripping moral choice of whether to pursue vengeance and possibly come down to the level of the man she wants to kill. I feel in 2025 today there is way more violence and unplesantness on the screen without a message or narrative. Retro TV is way more intelligent than a lot of what is offered now and I don't feel Gurkhan degraded the characters at all. The complete opposite actually.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I suppose Xena’s torture did help open Gabrielle’s eyes to the cycle of violence she was feeding into by seeking vengeance.

And it was notable seeing Xena fridged for Gabrielle’s benefit for once, instead of the other way around

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

And Xena willingly walked into that torture to protect Gabrielle - that's also a strong choice on her part.

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rosalui@reddit

I didn't mind The Deliverer nearly as much, really. It was more like a face-hugger scene in an Alien movie than it was a realistic assault. Involuntary impregnation happens to Xena too a couple of seasons later, and I don't love either storyline, but they're both fully fantasy.

Gurkhan wasn't metaphorical, it was showcasing the real violence that's happened to real women throughout history, and that's distinctly worse for me.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I don’t love Xena’s nonconsensual pregnancy either lol

Gabrielle’s attack makes me think of a G-rated version of the tree roots from Evil Dead, probably because I picture when the scene gets revisited in Bitter Suite and the flames are physically grabbing her vs in The Deliverer where they’re just swirling. Granted, the show was not even 5% as graphic as Evil Dead, but still has me like 🫤

But I agree Gurkhan is worse for leaning into the physical violence and sexualization

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PirateJen78@reddit

I agree. Never cared for the Gurkhan episodes and I always skip them. But I actually like King Con and just don't get the hate.

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Valuable_Detail_4531@reddit

I could do without if the shoe fits.

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ViolinViolence@reddit

Thank you! Somebody said it.

I don't get that hate for something like In Sickness when there's this episode. It offers virtually nothing and is pretty forgettable. At least some of the other episodes people mention leave an impression.

I am in a rewatch atm (middle of season 4) so I can't comment about all the episodes yet, but for me this one tops my list so far, then A Tale of Two Muses. I like the theme (Footloose, religious hypocrisy), but it just doesn't work for me. I am also not fond of Tara.

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IseQween@reddit

LOL! I must have a thing for DAY IN THE LIFE moments gone wrong, like IN SICKNESS and SHOE. Among the few times Gabs gets to storm off at the WP's clueless insensitivities or "woman of action" Xena gets caught lazing around pulling leaves apart. Gap-toothed, pseudo-psychologist Gabs suggesting Xena's "mistreatment" of her things stem from deeper emotional issues? Xena sticking her sword in that golden slipper, declaring she doesn't need it to make her happy ending? As wacky as they are, these eps' revelations about our girls' fallibilities also make them more human to me.

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

I tend to agree with this summation. I really enjoyed If the Shoe Fits - when you look at each version, you get to see what each narrator thinks of hm/herself and what they think of others around them, and that's interesting. Plus we get a great example of Gabrielle embracing her sexuality - the way she changes the old sack she uses as a top into something that shows off her assets.

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ViolinViolence@reddit

I do like that line at the end about happy endings.

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

I have always felt Sickness was another Day In The Life episode. Xena and Gabrielle just navigating life and their situation with travels. Really cute.

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ViolinViolence@reddit

Sickness definitely. I see Day in the Life and Sickness as companion episodes. Shoe I don't see as just navigating life/travels. They spend a great deal of episodes roaming and encountering situations and people, so for me, that would make a lot of episodes just "a day in the life." I don't see where Shoe delves into the little everyday things that people/relationships/travelers in ancient times have to deal with or encounter.

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ChippieChamp@reddit

I like that episode.

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

I could do without The Key to the Kingdom. It doesn't have our lead characters and it turns out we know that Meg can have children, so it's kind of all for nothing.

It has some fun moments with Meg and Joxer as a potential couple, so there's that.

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AuntyEmfromOz@reddit

I didn't like the way Autolycus treated/thought of Joxer and Meg in Key to the Kingdom, so never liked that episode.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

Ouch ouch ouch, this one hurts! 😂😂

Meg was not a healer, nor could she ever afford to see one that would really give an in-depth look, she didn’t know for sure she couldn’t have kids. That’s what I always think about that line. There could be darker explanations for why she might’ve know for sure but if they don’t give them to me in the show, I don’t have to consider them lol

I’m always a little confused when people say they hate Key because it doesn’t have Xena because… how do I phrase this cuz it’s kind of a roundabout thought lol… Okay… it has Lucy Lawless in her exact Xena costume but doing a silly voice and acting silly. How is that different than episodes like The Furies or In Sickness and In Hell where you’ve got Lucy as Xena but not behaving or sounding like Xena?

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

I'm not a fan of Meg. I prefer Diana and Leah.

But I love Joxer, do there's that.

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NoReach1699@reddit

I'll keep A Friend in Need. It's my third favorite episode. The episodes I would like to delete are Purity, Back in the Bottle and Soul Possession. This episodes have retcons that I HATE. There's some episodes i can't stand, like Little Problems and Lifeblood, but they don't offend me like the three I mentioned.

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jenyovation@reddit

I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes it, thank you! 😄

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SakuraTacos@reddit

Omg 🥲 another Friend in Need stan? The only eps from those I differ from is that I love Soul Possession but that’s okay, I’m just so happy you said AFIN is your 3rd favorite!

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

I have zero problems with FIN in the sense that part 2 in particular has some amazing moments for Gabrielle.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I love Gabrielle’s story in AFIN so so so much, it means so much to me, I’m so moved by it. It might be the tragic end of our main protagonist but it’s the origin story for a new hero, The Girl with the Chakram. Gabrielle is so resilient in AFIN that the first time I saw it, I left the episode thinking “You know what… I actually think she just might be stronger than Xena.” She is, Xena knows it too. I know Gabrielle found a way to bring Xena back but even if she didn’t, I also know she’d still go on to live a wonderful life.

I don’t deny it’s borderline soul crushing, it makes me as sad as the opening of Up, I weep every single time, but it’s beautiful.

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NoReach1699@reddit

Xena vs arrows is one of the best things i've ever watched in my life. That shit is so good. I love a lot about this episode, but if the only thing good was this scene, i would still love it, haha

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SakuraTacos@reddit

Yes! Xena and the arrows and Gabrielle’s katana fight in the rain

gif

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NoReach1699@reddit

Yes I am ☺️ I know there's at least 4 of us around here 😂 My number 1 is One Against An Army, my number 2 is Ides of March, and my 3rd is AFIN ❤️

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I was just pondering how my favorites rank. I think it goes:

Maternal Instincts

And then Destiny, The Debts, When Fates Collide, Ides, and AFIN battle for second just strictly dependent on which one I saw last. I’ll always finish one of those like “No, I love THIS ONE more, I swear!”

After those, it’s way easier for me to list my least faves because I love them all (or at least like 129 of them) so much :’)

I’m convinced that if there was a S7, people would rank AFIN up there with The Debt and Ides

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NoReach1699@reddit

That makes sense. People talk and talk, but in my opinion, the real problem for people is xena's death. If the show continued, AFIN would be in a lot of people top 10. The problems it has (plotwise and so on) are no diferent than other xena episodes. I think, for example, that Sacrifice I & II are even messier, and a lot of people like them (me included, Callisto's death scene is one of the best scenes of the show)

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NoReach1699@reddit

I could deal with Soul Possession if not the Gabrielle retcon. Am i suposed to rethink all of season 4 (my second favorite season) with the idea that Gabrielle made some kind of soul pact with Ares to save Hope? No, thanks, I'll pretend that don't exist 🤭

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I don’t even remember Gabrielle making a pact but sometimes entire plot points fly way high over my head so I guess I’ll just have to rewatch, oh darn 😜

I thought Ares saved Gabrielle cuz he knew he could use her as leverage and Xena (almost) made the pact

But the plot isn’t what I love about that ep anyway, honestly. It’s the individual moments I love more; Xena telling Ares she wants to marry him at the lava pit closest to the person she’s meant to spend her life with, Joxer giving Xena her pre-wedding gifts, Xena in that dress, Mattie and Harry/Annie in wedded bliss, Meg in the cake. The plot is an ungodly mess, that was not how Xena told Joxer Gabrielle was still alive at all, what the heck guys did you not have tapes of your own show to reference? 😂

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NoReach1699@reddit

I usually don't care much about plot either, i'm all about characters moments (hence my ability to love AFIN) but this one specifically bugs me cause it involves Gabrielle and i'm sensitive about Gabrielle (my flair haha). And I don't care enough about Joxer or Ares for them to save the episode for me. But again, if not for the terrible Ares Gabs pact thing, it would be ok for me 😌 that's the only thing i wish didn't exist

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DaniDoesnt@reddit

Over half of season 5

I do like fish sticks however but it makes no sense and I see why ppl hate it

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Agent8699@reddit

Only half? I’d consider 2/3 easily jettisonable!

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

It's nonsense, but since it's an homage to Overboard, one of my favorite movies, I'll allow it.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

In Sickness and In Hell because for me gross out humour doesn't fit the show well and is so unappealing. It's the lowest common denominator for me and this doesn't have the pleasure of the other comedic episodes. A true waste of time. I can't believe it got an actor commentary on the Anchor Bay dvds when many classic episodes didn't.

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Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

For some reason this episode never fails to crack me up. I think hearing the little lice voices does it. And I like their bickering.

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Ok-Jackfruit-6873@reddit

I'm so glad you said that because the little lice sound effect lives rent-free in my head forever and is my favorite thing about that episode. They sound so joyful!?!

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ViolinViolence@reddit

I think it's one of their best comedic episodes. A bit over the top, but funny.

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SakuraTacos@reddit

I love the general plot and a lot about In Sickness and In Hell but it really grosses me out too. It makes me laugh but it also wipes the smile off my face at times, Gabrielle’s stomach rash makes my skin crawl

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Sinomatic@reddit

Fishsticks, In Sickness and In Hell, Ulysses, Prometheus, For Him the Bell Tolls, Key to the Kingdom (except the ending), If the Shoe Fits, Punchlines, Purity, Back in the Bottle, Deja Vu/Soul Possession.
Mostly I'm not a fan of OTT silly comedies (and esp when Xena goes wildly out of character), I despised the weird forced romances in Ulysses and Prometheus (plus I never liked Sorbo's Herc anyway), the S5 china eps suck and were a rubbish way to expand on Lao Ma and Xena's story, I'm not a fan of the 'modern day' characters (when we could've had Janice and Mel again instead), and Joxer makes me want to stab my eyes out.

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matt-89@reddit

Daughter of Pomira, Ulysses, The Titans, Lifeblood.

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unsichtbar_dabble@reddit

I didn’t like King Con either.

Could have done without The Way, Ulysses, back in the bottle…

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ViolinViolence@reddit

I like it too!

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FirefighterThink1556@reddit

Agree with your answers those episodes aren’t great anyway but their placement makes them entirely nonsensical. My main issue though is with Purity and Back in the Bottle, probably 2 of the worst episodes of tv ever for me. I like to imagine they were written by Joxer who had no idea what was going on.

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Pop_Stensbold@reddit

And once again I love those two episodes and have never understood the hate for them.

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FirefighterThink1556@reddit

I think we have very different reasons that we enjoy the show lol

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multiplecats@reddit

Joxer's great, the story is not so great. It's Kurtzman's writing style for me. Over on Hercules his style fits so well.

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permanent_penguin@reddit

I wish they never did the current day episodes, I cannot stand watching those

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ChippieChamp@reddit

If there was an episode’s that, wasn’t made or was written or done better.

Besides AFIN, there is a few. Like Sending In The Clones and Soul Possession that, I wish it wasn’t made or it was written better. As

While God You Know is another episode, I wish it wasn’t made as the whole episode. Was about Eve and she past ego as Livia, but she was barely in the episode and it was about Xena.

Needed to protect Eve from Caligula and stop him, being the emperor of Rome and Aphrodite lose her power.

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