Bluetooth 6.2 specifications: more responsive, improves security, USB communication, and testing capabilities

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sittingmongoose@reddit

That latency reduction is huge. 7.5 ms to 0.375 ms. Wow

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nshire@reddit

7.5ms? Audio latency in my car is greater than 500ms lol

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jmb2k6@reddit

Your car uses Bluetooth Classic. That applies to Bluetooth LE which would cover LE Audio but that’s not what your car uses

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sittingmongoose@reddit

That is just one part of the chain. Also latency with cars comes down to a lot more than issues with Bluetooth. A lot of it is with the implementation of Bluetooth in the car.

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Blueberryburntpie@reddit

A lot of it is with the implementation of Bluetooth in the car.

Whatever way is the cheapest way to implement it, it will be done.

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RBeck@reddit

The codec and software matter as well. For instance my headset uses aptX for lower latency calling or aptX HD for music.

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mennydrives@reddit

Damn, if this could bring overall audio latency down to sub-30ms, I might finally be able to use bluetooth speakers in rhythm games.

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That might be tricky... the time for a 20Hz bass signal to fully propagate is 50ms.
Admittedly 100Hz will have a 10ms time and much of what we listen to isn't in the low bass region but there ARE inherent limits.

And of course stuff over 1Khz has a 1ms or less time so... ehh

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EndlessZone123@reddit

We are transmitting digital signals here through radio waves. Not sound.

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Intrepid_Lecture@reddit

Explain how the sound that hits your ears ends up with sub 30ms latency when the sound going from the transducer to your ear has intrinsic latency.

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EndlessZone123@reddit

The propagation time of a 20 Hz wave doesn’t matter here. Bluetooth sends digital packets, not the actual sound wave. Any delay comes from encoding, decoding, and buffering, not the frequency of the sound.

I dont think the peak to peak time of a frequency matters to your ears.

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Intrepid_Lecture@reddit

Peak to peak frequency matters for the brain to process it. To top that off the brain needs to hear a certain number of cycles before fully registering a tone. The hair cells basically fire in sync to the rate of the frequency waves.

It's enough of an effect that orchestras often try to time their lower frequency instruments to be slightly ahead of the higher frequency instruments.

Even if you made bluetooth infinitely fast the physics of sound would still bottleneck things.

I want to emphasize that this is far less of an issue for human voice ranges (think 2000Hz) vs sub-bass (20Hz) by around an order of 100x.

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RIPPWORTH@reddit

You seem like a smart guy, but damn do you absolutely lack any awareness and ability to read a room.

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EndlessZone123@reddit

I don't know why you think this matters. Both signls are digital and play though the speakers. We are talking about wired VS wireless latency. Nobody here is effected by peak to peak frequency when people have been fine with wired latency.

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Intrepid_Lecture@reddit

You spelled "affected" wrong.

Also sub-component latency is meaningless if end to end latency is shit.

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EndlessZone123@reddit

Boo hoo

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FatalCakeIncident@reddit

I feel like you're confusing yourself slightly.

We like to measure waves in terms of how many times they happen per second, because one second is quite a nice, comfortable, human-friendly measurement. We can also name them as notes. Both options are useful methods for understanding and describing waves, but neither are terribly relevant to digital audio.

The thing with digital audio is that it doesn't record waves but rather, it takes a snapshot of the intensity of a wave tens of thousands of times a second. Playing those snapshots back in rapid succession creates the illusion of playing those waves back. The human-friendly name of the note or oscillation frequency doesn't altogether matter. Your Bluetooth signal will transmit its sample of audio x times per second, with the same latency uniformly, regardless of the frequencies those samples might describe.

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mennydrives@reddit

Wouldn't matter. We're talking about delay to signal.

If the time for a 20Hz bass signal to fully propagate is 50ms, that's 50ms regardless of whether bluetooth adds a delay.

Bluetooth delay is something like 60-150ms. So that's an ADDITIONAL 60-150ms before the soundwave even starts.

In Project Diva, you get 7-8 frames to hit a note w/o breaking combo. That's a window of 116 to 133ms. If you're consistently hitting notes at the 3-4 frame mark, that means a 66 to 67ms delay is gonna kill you. If the delay has variance, it's not even worth trying.

In my experience though, delay over bluetooth has always been too high to bother. Closer to the 100-150ms mark. Yes, you can add lag compensation, but that also means that every note score is gonna be delayed, which is a pain to deal with.

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ericonr@reddit

Eh?

Are you treating the pure delay as a phase difference that applies to all frequencies? That's not how this works.

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Plus-Candidate-2940@reddit

All these versions and it still sucks

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gordonv@reddit

One Bluetooth first came out it was actually pretty bad. Today it's good. Yes there could be more we get out of it.

Is that what you're trying to say? That we can get more out of wireless communication than we do right now?

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JapariParkRanger@reddit

Try using a Bluetooth headset.

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gordonv@reddit

I have a Jabra Evolve2 85. It's a $500 headset and is obviously higher quality than those dumb earpiece devices. It has firmware updates.

Is there garbage Bluetooth products. Yes. A lot. Buy quality.

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JapariParkRanger@reddit

Now make a friend and give them a call with it.

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gordonv@reddit

Assuming you don't work in an office.

I use it every business workday constantly. Teams, Webex, PC Sound, Smartphone.

I'm going to take a guess and you're using a poor quality product. If that's so, you're absolutely right that product is failing you.

I recommend going Jabra.

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JapariParkRanger@reddit

Every assumption you've made is incorrect.

Try using bluetooth to make calls next time, and stop trying to flex in ignorance

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gordonv@reddit

Seems Ad Hominem. Not trying to hurt your feelings, friend.

What brand of headset you using?

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LeftysRule22@reddit

There's a reason headsets like the Arctis Nova Pro, Astro A50, etc... use a base station that communicates with 2.4Ghz instead of bluetooth. The Nova Pro can do both, and there is a substantial loss in microphone quality on bluetooth, its a bluetooth limitation. Just because your Jabra is good enough for you doesn't mean there aren't flaws in the bluetooth protocol.

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petuman@reddit

I recommend going Jabra.

Doesn't sound any different to any other Bluetooth headphone in headset mode (so when both headphones and mic are active; all due to bandwidth limitations of Bluetooth):

https://youtu.be/DppYdsqQfiM?si=YdSlgk5PU47JWENW&t=429

Same heavy compression with low pass filter sound (because somehow Bluetooth still can't do better with 3 audio streams). And that compression applies to headphone portion as well, so if you listened to music while in a call it goes to muffled mono crap.

In same video there's compassion to way cheaper wired Jabra headset: https://youtu.be/DppYdsqQfiM?si=K7a6chqpcO8bfLHr&t=553

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r3sp1t3@reddit

or instead of shelling out hundreds of dollars to cover up for a spec that doesnt take the average user into account we could have a better spec

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gordonv@reddit

Here's the thing. A better spec won't shield customers from new spec garbage.

At some point there needs to be a realization that build quality matters. Benchmarking is important.

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r3sp1t3@reddit

sure, but 500 dollars to fulfill a very basic desired function is ridiculous

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gordonv@reddit

That's the thing. We consider "perfect" as "basic."

Near perfect costs a lot of money for anything. It's really easy to find cheap crap.

Lets not pretend a $54 earpiece is going to preform like a studio mic and monitor.

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r3sp1t3@reddit

You keep moving the goalposts. people aren't asking for studio recording equipment, they just want enough bandwidth to send audio bi-directionally

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gordonv@reddit

You keep moving the goalposts.

Not really. A simple finite statement to summarize my position:

If you buy garbage, you get garbage.
If you buy quality, you get quality.
You're not going to buy garbage and get quality.
Quality is expensive.

For me, I require high end and dependable equipment for daily operation. Not everyone needs what I need. I wish I could get by on a $100 setup. It's not good enough.

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r3sp1t3@reddit

again, I've never once contested any of that. but i'm clearly getting nowhere

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narwi@reddit

maybe try using a bluetooth headset with a version newer version than 3.0

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Plus-Candidate-2940@reddit

My headphones are 5.3 I’m using a 16 pro max there is no reason why Bluetooth should cut out so often but it does

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Plus-Candidate-2940@reddit

Hasn’t been good for me shit still cuts out regularly

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HuntKey2603@reddit

Cool and all but at long as the usecase of most users is covered (bi directional audio in good quality for calling), Bluetooth will remain an annoying hurdle.

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digital_n01se_@reddit

wired earbuds masterrace

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HuntKey2603@reddit

the entire point of bt is not be wired

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digital_n01se_@reddit

they're more comfortable, but they aren't better all-across the board as some people pretend.

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thelastsupper316@reddit

Yes hands-free is so bad it is so bad it sounds like it hasn't been changed since 2008 it is so f** bad like it's embarrassing and it's the main issue with Bluetooth right now not anything else this is the main issue hands-free makes it sound like you're in a f**** 1987 wireless audio demo it sounds horrible unusable for listening to music or gaming on a discord call, embarrassing.

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arc_medic_trooper@reddit

To be fair use case of most users are covered. As far as any random Bluetooth headset user is concerned, it works pretty good.

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Exotria@reddit

Yeah, it's frustrating to me that my bluetooth earbuds have great microphone and audio quality, but only if you're using one or the other. The excellent hardware is bottlenecked so hard by the bluetooth standard.

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-Venser-@reddit

Seems like a great upgrade.

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DeconFrost24@reddit

Now if it could just figure out that I'm about 12 feet from my car and my airpods are in, to not continue to send the audio/mic into the fricken car!

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ArdFolie@reddit

Need... More... Bandwidth.

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SignalSatisfaction90@reddit

2.4 baby

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shalol@reddit

Wifi?

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ArdFolie@reddit

Wifi direct is okayish, but it still lacks the convenience of a Bluetooth transfer.

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Acceptable_Potato949@reddit

Wi-Fi Direct, the very much forgotten standard that was designed to fix the limitations of Bluetooth...

While we're at it, can we go back to shipping WiGig enabled devices? It was fucking brilliant.

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diemitchell@reddit

I mean..... Im fairly certain pimax uses it😂

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DeepJudgment@reddit

I am not satiated... Feed me more... Bandwidth

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Skull_Reaper101@reddit

When are we getting more bandwidth bruh, the audio drops to absolute dogs hit when the mic is connected. And even without it it's pretty shit

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dssurge@reddit

A elegant solution would be connecting as 2 devices.

If you want an existing example of this, look at the wireless ModMic from Antlion. It's expensive as hell, but it's the actual solution.

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hardware2win@reddit

I hope Windows will improve its remove, reconnect and in general refresh Bluetooth device state, cuz sometimes it is impossible to reconnect device when switching pcs via dock station

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narwi@reddit

We will see if how much of a compatibility imapact this ends up having but the latency reduction is certainly welcome for mice and keyboards.

Hopefully Nordic Semiconductor adds support soon.