Is the Toyota Auris in the wrong for stopping in the yellow box for the van?
Posted by Nochancetrader@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 72 comments
Posted by Nochancetrader@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 72 comments
This_Suit8791@reddit
All of the are wrong for stopping in the box, you aren’t suppose to enter it if you can’t go through to the other side. Same with traffic lights without a box really but no one seems to abide by these rules.
Saw a post about the standards of driving in uk the uk these days and stuff like this and the red light getting treated like an amber now is some of the reasons why the standards are rubbish.
Professional_twit@reddit
You can enter it and sit there providing you are turning right but none of them are
doxamark@reddit
Not true, you aren't allowed to enter if your exit isn't clear. If you enter and the exit is blocked by someone then you can't.
The two white cars that are blocked by someone straddling the road are not at fault, the two black cars behind them absolutely are.
There's a guy on insta/ tik tok who does loads of stuff helping people get out of yellow box fines, he's really good for knowing the exact rules around them.
Range-Anxiety@reddit
You're wrong.
No where does the highway code say you can't stop in a yellow box. It says you can't enter if you're exit isn't clear, however the cars exit was clear, the van stole his spot.
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
The reason I put this on was because it’s one of those circumstance where the Mercedes Benz car is broken down but if you look there is enough space for me and the van to both clear that right hand lane and for him to then merge but because he merged early I forcibly had to wait behind since he wasn’t fully merged in
williamsiilophs@reddit
Its a rare curcumstance to be fair but yeah you shouldnt have entered the box til it was clear
This_Suit8791@reddit
Hard to tell from the footage but you maybe could have went the other side to clear the box then merge to get past the other car.
FunDish2348@reddit
The Toyota Audis is the one on the left of the van no?.
rev-fr-john@reddit
You did the correct thing.
On entering the box you clearly had an exit, but then the van incorrectly changed lanes potential blocking your previously clear exit, you then had to choose between stopping in the box or potentially failing to prevent an accident, both of which you have a duty to do as mentioned in the highway code, but not causing an avoidable accident takes precedence.
AllHailTheHypnoTurd@reddit
I always hear the standards are rubbish but our driving standards are comparatively excellent
We have some of the safest roads and best drivers in the world
We’re so good that we drive ourselves mad over small infractions like this and dramatically gasp out how shit we are
UK, Switzerland, Finland, Singapore, Norway, Netherlands, Japan all absolutely world class
This_Suit8791@reddit
But compared to 20 years ago the standards are terrible because the roads are so busy now and everyone seems to be in such a rush these days.
AllHailTheHypnoTurd@reddit
Everyone was in a rush 20 years ago but the cars were a lot shitter I’ll tell you that. Buying an old car 20 years ago you’d be lucky if you could wind the windows all the way up without a little draft gap, and if the cassette player didn’t jam every time you’d be laughing
There’s more people now, and a lot more options. You can pretty much get anything you want the next day, I used to have to wait 6-7 days for deliveries, you can pause the TV, you get more than 7 channels on every single, there’s YouTube and Spotify. All of these things which are just part of normal life now still feel ‘new’ to me. The comforts of life now compared to 20 years ago are night and day. I’ve still got VHS tapes sitting in the loft.
bucketofardvarks@reddit
A tonne of cars near me enter a traffic light controlled roundabout when the previous section goes red (running a red light to prove how clever they are for knowing they're next)
A tonne more run the red light as it turns to red because they want to prove how clever they are knowing the others will wait another second or two and can't bear the idea of sitting still for 30 seconds
It's honestly amazing that there aren't more incidents than there are with the level of stupidity on show
theProffPuzzleCode@reddit
The red light is virtually the same as amber. Both mean stop. Amber just has the extra bit "unless doing so is likely to cause an accident".
This_Suit8791@reddit
Yeah but it should be safer for when you have a bigger vehicle behind you it gives you time to go through safely. These days my light goes green and cars are still coming through on a red.
Kind-County9767@reddit
Because the result of the rules as written are that on a colossal yellow box like this you get 1-2 cars per light cycle through. Second waits for first to get through etc.
The way that yellow boxes are used don't really work with the rules.
Economy-Credit-2107@reddit
You shouldn’t have gone if you didn’t know you could pass through but idk what the van driver is smoking
Next_Interaction4335@reddit
That van is an asshole.
Minimum-Knowledge396@reddit
Vans fault but Toyota will get the fine in the post.
GavT1978@reddit
Sadly everyone but the a-hole that caused them to stop in the box section would be liable to a ticket, the only time you can stop is if there is a right turn and oncoming traffic, that van could have gone much further up the road before attempting to merge, zero situational awareness, hopefully the council showed some common sense and didnt fine them
Rich_Secretary_7621@reddit
Looks very much to me as if the actions of the van driver here got the two cars behind him a ticket for stopping in a box junction, no?
Virtuous-Patience@reddit
Yeah, everyone stationary in the box is an arse…
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
Watch the video and look at right hand lane there’s enough space for both white cars on right hand lane to clear box but the idiot driver in the van merged early
Virtuous-Patience@reddit
Obviously i watched the video, and read your original comment. I’m not a moron and stand by my comment. You came here to ask and I answered, insulting me and telling me I’m wrong is not what this sub is for. I stand by my comment.
Muted-Painting-9987@reddit
Stand by your ignorance
skyhoop@reddit
They didn't insult you...
Physical_Chocolate92@reddit
I can see the van started to merge and caused things to jam but also it looks like there's enough room to the right of the van to get past. So if there is then the white car on the right should of vacated the hatched area and then waited to merge behind the broken down vehicle.
The white car could potentially argue that the van obstructed the ahead view and thus created a situation where the white car had no choice but to become stationary. However I'd give that 50/50 odds.
mralezz@reddit
😍😌🤒🎈
Relative-Wealth8217@reddit
Honestly the van fucked them up but there was also more than enough space for them to go round
Biggidybo@reddit
No, as there is space to the right where he could drive to.
I recommend checking out Yellow Box Guru on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/yellowboxguru?igsh=MWE2OWY5Y2lnNXQweA==
RagingMassif@reddit
I would have gone around, it's tight but there is space.
It's an interesting point that the exit was clear when you entered and then due to the fool changing lanes you were blocked.
Jackk12121@reddit
Why is there a box within a box in this junction
Stinkingsweatygooch@reddit
Surely all cars that stopped in the box are in the wrong. Not that it a hard one to happen to anyone
Range-Anxiety@reddit
Everyone saying you're in the wrong and bang to rights are, as is typical on Reddit, wrong.
Check this channel out on YouTube https://youtu.be/NsN461IiOm0?si=grfhBjUnSarryH63 and website www.yellowboxew.co.uk
Based on what is on their, the council will reject your appeal, ut the adjudicator would side with you.
d_smogh@reddit
You only enter the yellow box when the vehicle ahead has left and provided enough space to pull into.
One-Crab-137@reddit
Go round it, loads of space. Indicate, check mirror, manoeuvre. Not worth the fine/points. Driving is about making decisions.
Due-Button-768@reddit
NO STOPPING IN THE YELLOW BOX. You will receive a fine. End of.
Excellent-Bed7680@reddit
which one this
DoubleDown_Buckle-up@reddit
Everybody that came to a full stop is getting dinged with a fine im afraid
Emotional_Award1440@reddit
You cannot enter the box unless your exit o
CareerLow1034@reddit
London?
williamsiilophs@reddit
Yes because you are not supposed to enter a yellow box until the exit is clear
omniwrench-@reddit
Clear lack of foresight/judgement on the Auris. You see the box? You need to check if you can clear it before you try to clear it.
The van isn’t at fault for “blocking exit from the box” - the onus is on the Auris to check it can proceed without causing problems
BlackBikerchick@reddit
He is if he decided last min to move left he wasn't even in that lane
omniwrench-@reddit
There are two lanes and there’s clearly enough room for the auris to get around the van, rather than sitting behind it straddling both lanes
Strange-Tea7949@reddit
Why is the white can merging at the end of the box junction when the road ahead of them is clear.
Sure, some of those drivers are at fault but this is a perfect example of people being forced into the wrong because of another drivers actions.
BlackBikerchick@reddit
Literally, he even starts in the middle of 2 lanes
PixiePooper@reddit
I think it’s worth arguing. It’s some what of a grey area with two lanes.
According to TfL’s own site:
“You may enter a yellow box junction when your exit is clear and there is enough space on the other side of the junction for your vehicle to clear the box completely without stopping.”
When the first car enters the box, both these conditions are met. It’s not your fault that the van switched lanes.
Otherwise where do you draw the line? What happens if there’s enough space to cross and a car decides to reverse upto the box or something…?
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
That’s what I was thinking when I was watching the video
i-dm@reddit
Appeal it all the way and watch it get thrown out or cancelled when you go to London tribunals. The exit is clear and there's plenty of space for the vehicles entering the box to exit until the party is blocked by the van
_FreddieLovesDelilah@reddit
anyone who stopped in the box is in the wrong.
Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit
That's a tough one. I don't think the white car could tell that the road ahead wasn't clear. The van had a much better view, and reacted both too early and too late.
The black cars behind should definitely not have entered the junction.
Drwynyllo@reddit
> That's a tough one. I don't think the white car could tell that the road ahead wasn't clear.
No, it's a very easy one. If you can't tell that your exit from the yellow box is clear, you don't enter the yellow box.
FunDish2348@reddit
But it was clear until the van moved to the right at the last second. The auris is on the left of the van not the one behind.
Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit
That's literally true, but in practice when it's a junction you're very familiar with you read the road differently.
For example, near me there's a box junction where there's another set of traffic lights almost immediately afterwards, and if you see both sets on green then you're (almost always) good to go. Having someone unexpectedly stationary in lane 2 is very unusual, so it would be easy to get caught out.
In any case, it isn't the broken-down car that traps OP in the box. It's the van, which was progressing and had enough space beyond the box junction to let van and OP clear the restricted zone ... but chose not to. Are we really supposed to wait behind the box until the vehicle ahead has cleared the box and our vehicle's length in the road ahead, or is it reasonable to assume that the vehicle ahead will make use of the available carriageway?
Drwynyllo@reddit
> Are we really supposed to wait behind the box until the vehicle ahead has cleared the box and our vehicle's length in the road ahead,
Yes. Exactly that. That's how box junctions work.
> or is it reasonable to assume that the vehicle ahead will make use of the available carriageway?
No. You shouldn't assume anything. That's how problems like the one in the OP happen.
To quote Highway Code Rule 174:
"You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear."
and
"At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping."
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html#:\~:text=not%20obstruct%20traffic-,174%0ABox%20junctions
Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit
Ooh, thank you for the chapter and verse!
I guess it's interesting to me that the actual law (wait until you can see enough space for your vehicle beyond the box) and the customs of the road (proceed unless you think you'll definitely get stuck) differ. And it's also interesting to me that people behave slightly differently on routes they know well, because for example they know the cycle of the lights, or how big a gap you actually need to turn right here, or that you want to be in lane 2 because there's a busy bus stop just round the corner.
To clarify, I'm the one who staunchly waits behind the line until the box is obviously going to be clear, but that often means attracting the annoyance of following drivers.
And my overall thought about the situation in the video is that although yes OP is committing an offence and won't be able to escape the fine, he was unlucky to be trapped, since in 9/10 similar situations he wouldn't have been.
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
I would like to add that the Mercedes Benz is broken down and the reason why the van is trying to merge in to the left hand lane. If you do watch the video carefully you will see that there is enough space for the van and the Toyota auris to clear the yellow box if the van had merged later
SomeHSomeE@reddit
No one has a clue which cars you are referring to
AllThatIHaveDone@reddit
I don't think the driver of the Auris did anything wrong. They had a clear exit to the junction when they pulled in to it. The van cut them off, so I don't think it's right to say that the driver stopped for the van, but that they stopped because of the van.
theProffPuzzleCode@reddit
The van really screwed you, sorry about that, but you can't get out of it as you had room go round the van. As soon as they decided you merge you did too and turned left. Split second decision, not your fault, but I can't see you getting out if it.
Respire420@reddit
Why is van blocking 2 lines. F him
Willeth@reddit
Which one is the Auris, the white car directly behind the van?
The by the book answer is that it shouldn't have entered the yellow box in the first place as the exit was not clear.
External-Piccolo-626@reddit
The white car with the white roof.
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
They’ve all got white roofs but the estate car is the Toyota auris
External-Piccolo-626@reddit
The car on the left has a white roof does it?
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
My bad
Nochancetrader@reddit (OP)
🤣🤣
geeered@reddit
I've been in the same position and got the fine.
Unfortunately I well knew, despite trying to appeal - they aren't wrong for stopping.
They are wrong for entering the box junction in the first place.
In this situation, it looks like they could have got through to the right hand side, which could have avoided the fine. Or kept going forwards really slowly and maybe a quick tap of the horn to see if the van will move out of the way.
dartiss@reddit
Yes. You shouldn't enter a yellow box until you know you can traverse it, as you're not supposed to stop in it.
BowiesFixedPupil@reddit
You thought he was coming over I presume? Definitely looked like that was their intention.
Probably not wrong for stopping, but wrong for heading into the hatched area without a clear exit at the other side.
I hate these things, other drivers can get you a fine for something you really can't anticipate or avoid and if you wait for a clear exit in some, you'd just sit still all day.
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