Cirrus CAPS deployment near Sedona this morning. No injuries per Sheriff.

[-]

ThePurplePinto@reddit

I was the Air Traffic Controller that worked the first successful real world deployment (2002) of the CAPS! It was definitely nail-biting at the beginning, before the pilot made the decision to deploy, since there were no historical events for him to rely on. He kept doing fly-bys of the Tower, hoping to fix the problem... but it was an aileron issue so control of the aircraft was very difficult. He ended up flying out to an uninhabited woodsy area. Once he "pulled the trigger," he became very calm (I was able to communicate with him almost all the way to the ground.) He said it was out of his hands at that point and he was just just going to enjoy the ride!

https://www.cirruspilots.org/Safety/CAPS-Event-History

[-]

KennyGaming@reddit

Were you aware or briefed on the system before this incident? I can imagine a pilot saying they’re thinking about pulling the chute and ATC thinking they mean a Bond esque parachute jump out the pilot side door

[-]

ThePurplePinto@reddit

Ha! Actually, the Cirrus CAPS system was already very well known at this point, at least around Addison. Although, it was more because we all made fun of the idea of a PLANE having a parachute... little did we realize what a good idea it ended up being.

Also, since we see airplanes from the top more than from the bottom, the hatch door for the parachute is very obvious.

[-]

cat_prophecy@reddit

I have nothing to add other than calling it "Cirrus CAPS" is a bit redundant because the C in CAPS stands for Cirrus. Cirrus Airframe Parachute System.

Otherwise it's just a ballistic recovery system.

[-]

ThePurplePinto@reddit

I know! I have to hold myself back from calling it the Cirrus CAPS System!! 😁😁😁

[-]

LaconicSuffering@reddit

The Cirrus airplane CAPS parachute system!

[-]

Jolly_Line@reddit

Call sign Cooper

[-]

jay_in_the_pnw@reddit

He ended up flying out to an uninhabited woodsy area.

I'd think it would be better to deploy this over an airport where there is space available and nearby rescue, going far out, and then to a woodsy area seems odd

[-]

ThePurplePinto@reddit

Addison Airport is squeezed in from all sides by dense urbanization: tall buildings, major freeways, apartments, homes, hundreds of restaurants. Anybody that flies out of Addison knows that there are NO places to land in an emergency. The area that he flew out to was only a couple of miles away and covered with short, scrubby mesquite trees adjacent to a golf course. And it was easy enough for me to have spotters in the air (GA pilots are SO helpful!) to see exactly where he came down and relay that to the emergency services that were already en route.

I know most (all?) pilots have it in the back of their mind what they're going to do in any given emergency, so I'm assuming the pilot of the Cirrus had thought about this possible scenario in advance.

[-]

CHUNKYMURLOC@reddit

Trees are great to soften a landing vs concrete.

[-]

jay_in_the_pnw@reddit

thanks, yeah, that makes sense in the context of this being the first parachute deployment

[-]

yeahgoestheusername@reddit

Is the airframe, technically speaking, toast after a deploy or can I be checked, repaired and flown again?

[-]

nottatergrower@reddit

Seems to be used awfully a lot. Is there a higher than average malfunction rate?

[-]

Ok-Skill8583@reddit

There really isn’t any meaningful data to point toward Cirrus as having mechanical or design flaws.

It likely has a lot more to do with pilot demographics and experience. Bonanzas had a reputation of being, “Doctor killers” because they were often purchased and flown by affluent people who were otherwise proficient and successful in their given fields and conflated that with being invulnerable or that good doctor = good pilot. There was nothing deficient about the Bonaza’s, they were and still are, very capable aircraft.

Cirrus falls into the same or a similar category today. They are expensive and slightly higher performance aircraft that are very popular.

As other people have said, Cirrus gets a lot of attention every time their CAPS saves another pilot. You rarely get more than a paragraph blurb when someone burns in a Piper.

I have about 85 hours in a similar Cirrus and it is my top rental pick to fly friends and family due to the added safety that CAPS provides.

[-]

nottatergrower@reddit

Take it as you will but people who fly it appear to be overconfident, which resulted in a fatality rate twice the GA average, and higher than other comparable aircraft.You are twice as likely, statistically speaking, to kill your family and friends in one. I think my example of safety features in the car is appropriate, the more safety features, the more reckless one appear to be flying.

[-]

Chronigan2@reddit

Most people who have an emergency "I Get To Live!" button will press it rather than fighting the airplane and hoping things work out.

[-]

CaptainHunt@reddit

Actually, I’ve heard it’s the opposite. Test pilots have a saying, “better dead then look bad.”

[-]

Boring-Cold-1456@reddit

In 1962

[-]

KennyGaming@reddit

No test pilot in the last 40 years has said that

[-]

The_Canadian@reddit

Though, I'd guess the average civilian pilot isn't quite the same type of person as a test pilot.

[-]

KennyGaming@reddit

You’re probably underestimating the historical accident rate of GA air frames.

[-]

7w4773r@reddit

No, it’s just that in planes without parachutes the headlines end in “crashed”.

[-]

KG_advantage@reddit

Just curious does it automatically mean the airframe is done now.

[-]

ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit

It doesn’t really matter. Plane will be totaled regardless. People walked away though which is what matters

[-]

yourlocalFSDO@reddit

The airplane is not automatically totaled after a CAPS deployment. They can and are repaired.

[-]

VF99@reddit

If you pull on an almost new G6 or 7 sure. But this is a 2006 G2 so it's unlikely the relatively fixed repair costs make sense to do on an airframe (formerly) worth maybe $300k vs $1m+.

[-]

TailasOldAsTyme@reddit

As a CAPs certified technician, the course I take from Cirrus states that roughly 75% have been brought back into service after a deployment. I was actually surprised by this figure! I thought it would be way lower.

[-]

biggsteve81@reddit

Untrue. Several planes have been repaired and returned to service, including the very first customer plane to deploy CAPS.

[-]

Efficient_Stop_5598@reddit

wrong, many have flown again

[-]

rhineauto@reddit

As of 21 September 2021, CAPS had been activated 126 times, 107 of which saw successful parachute deployment.

As of 24 October 2019, 21 of the aircraft that had deployed CAPS had been repaired and put back into service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Airframe_Parachute_System

[-]

Hermitcraft7@reddit

Every time a system is deployed, the aircraft operator has to write a 2 page letter thanking the Cirrus engineers.

Well, I mean, I'd add that as part of the purchase agreement.

[-]

DataGOGO@reddit

If I ever have to activate caps, I am going up to Duluth and shaking the hand of every single engineer and factory floor worker I can find.

[-]

skiman13579@reddit

I may have my opinions on the factory management, but to this day one job has above all others given me the most pride I’ve ever had in my work. I was for a while THE guy installing CAPS into every plane.

It’s truly an amazing system to have, and now being a pilot myself wish I had it. My neighborhood is 99% inhospitable to emergency landings.

[-]

Hermitcraft7@reddit

I bet you saved someone at least once. Someone should get an interview with you or something!

[-]

skiman13579@reddit

Only did it for about 7 months, so odds are low. Turns out I’m built for the tropics not Northern Minnesota, and making 4 times the money than what I did there, so despite how dirty they did me, management did me a favor. Long story short there were production quality issues, management was looking to make an example by holding a public execution, and I was the unfortunate soul who had the first hiccup so they fired me with zero warning in front of the whole final assembly line.

It was so wildly out of line for their written policy that MN unemployment granted me full benefits and made their decision unappealable because Cirrus was so out of line. I could write a short story about that and how that goes against every aviation safety system out there.

But I still love the aircraft, work on them regularly, and I can answer all sorts of questions about the system.

[-]

gnartato@reddit

Double spaced, size 13 font, margins at .85".

[-]

Jazzlike_Climate4189@reddit

20% repair rate is pretty low. Hopefully they can improve the system to save both lives and airframes.

[-]

cat_prophecy@reddit

When I was working at Cirrus they said during training that if you have to deploy CAPS then the aircraft will likely be trashed.

[-]

quietflyr@reddit

Considering the expectation was 0%, 20% is pretty good.

Also, I'd be interested to know what the repair rate is for off-field landings. In terrain like is shown in the pictures, I'd hazard the rate would be about 0%.

[-]

jgmiller24094@reddit

It’s amazing the stuff you can find online

[-]

prancing_moose@reddit

Those 19 times when it didn’t deploy successfully is a bit worrying. I assume those didn’t have a great ending?

[-]

rhineauto@reddit

There’s a database of all CAPS events. Seems like most of the unsuccessful ones were where it was attempted outside of parameters (e.g. too low, or too fast)

https://www.cirruspilots.org/Safety/CAPS-Event-History

[-]

Ok-Skill8583@reddit

On the cirrus there are nylon webbing straps (similar to towstraps for vehicles) that are actually under the skin. When caps is deployed, they rip through the skin.

What’s more the aircraft usually comes to rest with a bit of a nose down attitude and a pretty brisk descent rate IIRC.

[-]

Efficient_Stop_5598@reddit

no
many have flown again

[-]

ForsakenRacism@reddit

Does the prop yeet itself

[-]

eric_gm@reddit

These things fall face first, so I'm guessing the blades were still spinning and broke off

[-]

Ok-Skill8583@reddit

It is actually a checklist item on the caps cover to cut the mixture. I wonder how often that actually happens.

[-]

vectaur@reddit

The few YouTube vids of CAPS deployment I could find have the plane descending near level with the chute out. But maybe nose down enough I guess?

[-]

fernst@reddit

Nose down would be ideal, right? It at least gives some crumple zone for absorbing kinetic energy.

[-]

cat_prophecy@reddit

The landing gear and bottom of the fuselage is designed to take the impact.

[-]

FJ60GatewayDrug@reddit

No crumple zone in the front of a plane. The seats in a Cirrus are designed with energy-absorbing crushable material to save your ass. You have to be carful boarding one, putting a foot or knee on the seat as you get in can damage the material.

CAPS deploys with the nose low at first, but after some time it should hang level-ish. This is why there’s a minimum safe altitude AGL for CAPS deployments.

[-]

vectaur@reddit

I dunno. Maybe? No airbags on an airplane so, if you can get the gear down, I feel like I’d rather do that and let the gear and seat cushions take the brunt. But I’m definitely not a safety engineer.

[-]

ryancrazy1@reddit

Actually the cirrus does have airbags.

[-]

OhioUPilot12@reddit

It does come down at a slightly nose down attitude and there are airbags built into the cirrus seatbelts.

[-]

fernst@reddit

Good point. I assume a landing with CAPS will still be a rough landing…although I’d rather be alive in a hospital than being in a crater on the ground

[-]

KennyGaming@reddit

Planes are not cars. Nose first for a low or medium speed crash is most dangerous for pilot survival.

[-]

Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit

From my very limited understanding the system initially deploys somewhat nose down and then moves to a more flat orientation as the plane is slowed.

Depending on what altitude the system was deployed at it might not have had enough time to fully settle down.

[-]

Efficient_Stop_5598@reddit

wrong, they actually descend nose 1st initially, and then about 10 seconds later line cutter level the plane out so the plane descends normally in a level attitude, landing on the landing gear

[-]

Ben2018@reddit

yep, unless pilot had presence of mind to be on the brakes it easily could have just rolled forward after landing - looks like rough (enough) terrain, it wouldn't take much to snap the prop. There's also nose wheel damage consistent with hitting something while moving along the ground.

[-]

JackRiley152@reddit

Does that count as a landing?

[-]

External-Creme-6226@reddit

Like everything else it has unintended consequences. Yes there have been many successful deployments of CAPS that saved lives and otherwise would’ve been lost, for that is an amazing system.

There have also been numerous instances where a pilot deployed the system in what should have been a recoverable situation. This has caused the insurance rates for ALL GA aircraft to skyrocket….knowing you have that system leads some folks to take chances they shouldn’t (exceeding their capabilities)….and leads others to over-react and deploy when not needed.

Again, amazing system and has saved lives…. But it’s not without downsides

[-]