I'm a Radiological and Nuclear Subject Matter Expert Ask Me Anything
Posted by HazMatsMan@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 274 comments
Hello r/preppers,
Welcome to my Ask Me almost Anything. I’m a Radiological Operations Support Specialist. I’ve been privileged to receive advanced training from institutions such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Texas A&M Engineering Extension (TEEX), the Center for Radiological/Nuclear Training (CTOS), the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, the Department of Energy, FEMA’s Center for Domestic Preparedness, and others. As a subject matter expert, I provide guidance to responders, decision-makers, stakeholders, and the public.
Things I probably won't answer:
- Anything that involves controlled information (classified or not).
- Specifics of incidents I've responded to.
- Anything that may reveal personally identifiable information about me, or enable doxxing.
Examples of things I am more than happy to answer:
- Questions about radiation, how it harms you, and how you can protect yourself from it.
- Questions about nuclear weapon effects, fallout, and public protection.
- Questions about different classes of radiological emergencies. i.e. "Dirty Bombs", Nuclear Detonations, and Nuclear Power Plant accidents.
- Questions about how responders and public officials are likely to respond to the above, and how you can prepare for or protective actions you can take.
- Questions about careers and how to "get into" this line of work.
Thank you in advance for participating, I'll be here all week. Feel free to ask me anything about radiological emergencies, response, public protection, equipment, PPE, or anything else related to radiological emergencies.
NoHuckleberry2543@reddit
Is it true you can just brush/wash fallout particulate off of yourself?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
That is correct.
Back in the "old days" we would set up mass decontamination showers, use firehoses, etc. for gross decon of civilians contaminated with fallout. And that water was invariably ice cold, etc. We don't anticipate doing that anymore for radioactive materials because we may be doing more harm than good... especially in the winter. The modern response would be to tell you to go home, brush yourself off outside, take your shoes and outermost layer of clothing off, bag it, and take a warm (but not hot) shower. Use your typical toiletry products, but don't scrub your skin because you don't want to break the skin or grind any residual fallout into your skin pores. Dry yourself off, put on some clean clothes, and follow up with your doctor if you have concerns. That's it.
Now, the caveats.
Local nuclear weapon fallout is like sand, and for the most part, you can just brush it off and get most of it off. Following the steps already mentioned, should take care of any that remains. The fallout from most dirty bombs or radiological dispersal devices is expected to be particulate or dust, similar to fallout. However, technically it could be anything since there are radioactive materials that are solids, liquids, and gasses. But solids are the easiest to handle, which makes them more likely to be used.
The release plume from a nuclear power plant is a little different. It can include particulates, gas, and vapor. The vapor can penetrate more deeply into your clothing, so taking a single layer of clothing off may not remove as much contamination as with nuclear weapon fallout. However, showering as described above is still effective in removing those materials as well.
NoHuckleberry2543@reddit
Okay. Surprising but somewhat of a relief. Strip, shower, soap. Not too much different from doing asbestos remediation. Just don't breath it obviously.
Thank you for your reply.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
For the most part, nuclear weapon fallout isn't an inhalation hazard (unless you really try to inhale it). Very basic respiratory protection will work, N95s, P100s, even cloth masks, hankerchiefs, pulling your shirt up over your mouth and nose... all of those will work well enough. RDDs are similar.
Nuclear plant releases are again a different animal and with the potential gas and vapor content, improvised breathing protection doesn't work as well. Getting inside a building and closing the windows will help with this. Most buildings will provide shielding as well as slow the infiltration of vapor. This situation is also where officials may recommend people take Potassium Iodide which helps prevent inhaled radioactive iodine from concentrating in the thyroid. This is mostly for people within 10 miles of a plant, though those at greater distances could receive similar sheltering recommendations depending on the situation.
War_Hymn@reddit
So I'm within 10 miles of a plant. In case of a radiological release, would it be a good idea to turn off my central HVAC and seal up any drafty windows and doors?
Also, do I have take iodine pills everyday while sheltering in place? The government sent us these free 59mg KI sealed pill packs but there's no instructions on the outside label.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yes, if you are directed to shelter in place, close your doors and windows and turn off your HVAC. As far as sealing drafty windows, sure, probably no harm in doing that. The thing I would caution you against is creating a completely "sealed" environment without some way to monitor CO2 buildup. Generally, using commercial window films won't cause a problem, but when people start using thicker visqueen and duct tape to cover every door, window, vent, etc. They start a clock ticking. It's not much different from taping a plastic bag over your head other than with a room, it's not so much oxygen being depleted as it is CO2 building up. The smaller the bag (or room) the faster CO2 builds up.
For potassium iodide, you should follow the recommendations of the FDA and local officials. You can find a FAQ for Potassium Iodide here which also has the dosing instructions for various age groups: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/bioterrorism-and-drug-preparedness/frequently-asked-questions-potassium-iodide-ki
The general recommendation is to take potassium iodide shortly before, or coinciding with plume arrival. Even if you're a few hours "late" in taking it, it can still be effective. The dose for adults is 130mg and you take them once a day for as long as you're "at risk" or as long as you're directed to take them. You probably won't be directed to take them for more than a few days to two weeks because there are concerns that long-term use of KI could increase the likelihood of undesirable side effects. It is also unlikely that a concentrated plume would persist for that long.
Also, I-131, the primary material of concern, has a half-life of \~8 days. After approximately 10 half-lives (80 days), we often consider the material to be effectively "gone". Even the passage of fewer half-lives may push the concentration of radioactive iodine low enough to where KI may no longer be necessary
MEXIC075@reddit
How many rads before you turn into a ghoul?
joelnicity@reddit
How much RadAway do you have?
MEXIC075@reddit
None 😞
joelnicity@reddit
I would share some of mine if we ever ran into each other
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Don't know. I don't plan on accumulating enough exposure to ever turn into a ghoul. 😉
ThisThredditor@reddit
INQUIRING MINDS NEED TO KNOW!
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
I would like to know how radiation harms you? What can you do to protect yourself? Is its as simple as some shows make it out to be, ie gas mask and a homemade suit? What to look for if you are exposed for too long? Any way to reduce your levels after being exposed, homemade, natural, or offical products? Any reliable portable detector that don't break the bank? Is it instant or does your body take time to absorb radiation?
New to this but thank you for anything you can answer.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
So there are two primary ways radiation harms you. The first is as Ryan mentioned, direct DNA damage. The second is indirect damage due to chemical radicals created when radiation strikes a molecule like water, breaks the chemical bond (ionizing it) and it breaks up into hydroxyl radicals. These hydroxyl radicals damage your cells in the same way that a chemical toxin might.
Nope, it's not as simple as a mask and a suit. That will keep radioactive contamination off of you and out of your body, but the primary hazard from nuclear weapon fallout for example, is external exposure... meaning the gamma radiation emitted by that fallout, which can penetrate any suit you could possibly wear, strikes tissues in your body, damaging them through the mechanisms mentioned above.
Radiation protection generally revolves around three protective measures... Time, Distance, and Shielding. Basically decrease your time exposed, increase distance between you and the source, or put shielding between you and the source. There's a great site called REMM (Radiation Emergency Medical Management) that has a lot of great articles and videos that explain most of this far better than I can. Check it out: https://remm.hhs.gov/remm_RadPhysics.htm
Your body naturally repairs radiation damage (and is doing it right now, because you're being exposed to radiation from naturally occurring radioactive materials). Injury happens when the radiation becomes so intense that your body's repair mechanisms can't keep up.
Any reliable portable detector that don't break the bank?
Really depends on what your needs and your budget is. But a device doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you don't know how to use it. Which is why I wrote this post in a different subreddit to help people find resources to learn how to use that equipment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Radiation/comments/1moe7hx/psa_dont_ask_what_geiger_counter_should_i_buy/
Fallout can reach distances of hundreds to thousands of miles, but the hazard presented by it generally decreases the further you get from the detonation site. You can use the https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ website to experiment with different yields and see how roughly "bad" the fallout is at different distances.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Damn. Thanks for the good info. Ill look into the website. So why do people prep for this type of stuff when it seems like you would die anyway?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Die anyway, from what? Not every detonation would be a fallout-producing surface burst. A nuke detonated as an air burst, is mostly no different from a really large conventional explosion. There's very little if any fallout. Most deaths won't be due to radiation.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
But as far as radiation from fallout. It almost sounds like if you are close enough to it that exposure would mean death. Maybe not instantly but in a day or so if you are unable to escape the fallout zone?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
If you're always looking for a reason to fail (or not survive), you'll always succeed.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Not looking for a reason. It just seems impossible to survive something like that without spending loads of money on PPE.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
You don't need PPE, you need a building to wait inside until the radiation level drops to where it's "safe enough" to go outside. All the PPE does is keep the dust off of you and make it easier to decontaminate yourself. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. A pair of mechanic's or painter's coveralls are often sufficient. Or, an inexpensive Tyvek suit. Fallout isn't easily inhaled, so for respiratory protection, an N95, P100, or even a cloth mask will help.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
O ok. I got confused about the suits which is why I thought it was impossible to survive.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Understandable. There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstandings out there about the topic. Sheltering first is your number one priority. As I was explaining in a different comment, nuclear weapon fallout emits dangerously intense radiation, but on the good side, it decays extremely fast. After 7 hours, it's intensity has decreased to 1/10th what it was at the first hour. By 49 hours, it's 1/100th. That's why it's so important to get into shelter immediately when the intensity is highest because that's where most of your exposure dose will come from.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Here's a 500ft view: Ionizing radiation (and that is an important thing to note) harms you by emitting energy that destroys DNA. Think of it like tiny little bullets small enough to knock out portions of DNA chains like flicking away blocks from a Jenga tower. The body can normally deal with this since DNA has some "autocorrect" functionality. But when the body gets way more than it can deal with, that's when it becomes a problem.
Protecting yourself from alpha/beta radiation can be as simple as a regular 3M full face mask and painter's suit with gloves/boot covers (yes, you can use a partial mask and goggles, but I personally prefer a full-face since it ensures the eyes, nose, and mouth are thoroughly protected). Protecting yourself from gamma/xray requires distance.
Symptoms of acute radiation exposure (lots at one time) including dizziness, vomiting, burns, diarrhea, weakness, things like that. Treatment includes getting rid of contaminated materials, giving fluids, and other treatments based on the exposure type.
For detectors, you get what you pay for. Cheap-o ones on Amazon for $30, they may be OK for preliminary testing, but I wouldn't put my life at stake without a good one to back it up.
Gunsmoke-X@reddit
Damn thats a lot of different factors. Thanks for the info
randomPixelPusher@reddit
Any thoughts on the Linear No-Threshold model not being biologically accurate?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Not touching that one.
randomPixelPusher@reddit
I watched an interesting video about the topic from Kyle Hill.
Big Nuclear’s Big Mistake - Linear No-Threshold
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I saw it come up in r/radiation. I just don't want to get into the LNT debate here.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
u/HazMatsMan , something that has always bugged me about ALARA and LNT has finally had someone with more than a couple braincells put some thought into it. An extremely interesting video by Kyle Hill:
Big Nuclear’s Big Mistake - Linear No-Threshold - YouTube
I wonder, if LNT goes away, how it would change prediction models for not just NPP, but for dirty bombs and fallout models, since (I'm assuming) an industry/military change in outlook regarding LNT would have effects on LD (lethal dose) calculations.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Dropping LNT won't change acute dose effects and precautions, because those effects are fairly well understood and relatively reliable. The further you go below where leukocyte depletion and other measurable/observable effects occur, the fuzzier our understanding gets.
In the emergency response community, there is a growing understanding that the long-term effects of radiation may not necessarily be the biggest concern. A LOT was learned about evacuation stress and the toll relocation takes on populations after the Fukushima disaster. Arguably, the life disruptions they endured were far more impactful (and in some cases, fatal) than long-term radiological health effects like cancer, because they may not have even lived long enough for those effects to manifest.
Now that said, there are also considerations such as if we were to give people the option to stay, and they need care or services... are we then saddling those people going into those areas, who may be younger, with preventable cancer risks? It's a deep, dark rabbit hole with an extremely difficult decision at the bottom. Fortunately, I don't have to make that decision. I only have to explain it to a decision-maker or elected official, and they get to make it.
PaulBunyanisfromMI@reddit
Do you think the subject matter “Nuclear War Survival Skills” by Cresson Kearny is valid? Are home basements worth building shielding into for guarding against fallout?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yes, in my opinion, Cresson Kearny's book "Nuclear War Survival Skills" is a valid, and valuable, resource.
Even without extra shielding, a basement will cut your dose roughly by a factor of 10 to 30. Adding a shelter-within-a-shelter, such as a concrete or sandbag blockhouse is multiplicative... so if you can make a PF10 blockhouse inside your PF10 basement, you're now at PF100. So, yes, I think it's worth it if you can afford to do it right. I generally caution people to talk to structural engineers before they add significant loads to their homes.
So here's another few things that are in your favor when it comes to sheltering. Nuclear weapon fallout decays really fast. So fast that we use a rule-of-thumb called the 7-10 Rule of thumb. It states that for every 7-fold passage in time, the intensity of the radiation decreases by a factor of ten. So, if you have 1000 rads/hr outside at H+1 (which sounds unsurvivable, right?), after 7 hours it's 100, and after 49 hours it's 10. If you have even a basement, your dose is reduced to 100 rads/h at H+1, 10 r/h after 7, and 1 r/h after 49 hours. Also, because that decay is continuous, that means that when you started at 100 rad/h at H+1, that doesn't mean you accumulated 700 rad after 7 hours. Your actual dose would be 161 rad. You will probably experience nausea, vomiting, etc... but that's absolutely a survivable dose. After 49 hours you will have accumulated 270 rad. Not great, but still on the survivable side of LD50. After a full 2 weeks, you will have accumulated \~344 rad which is approaching LD50, right?
Wrong. Which brings up the third thing to know about sheltering and radiation doses. If anyone does a Google search, they'll probably see that a dose of \~350-425 rad is fatal for 50% of the population within 30 or 60 days. Here's the thing. When that number was established, it was using prompt (immediate, all at once) radiation doses. When you're sheltering, you aren't receiving the previously mentioned 344 rad all at once, so your body has time to deal with the damage. The numbers typically listed for acute radiation syndrome and fatal effects were based on prompt radiation dose estimates at Hiroshima, Fukushima, and radiation accidents over the years that resulted in large doses of radiation delivered in seconds, minutes, or hours. When those same doses are spread over days or weeks, the dose you're able to survive goes up considerably.
PaulBunyanisfromMI@reddit
I’m curious how LD50 is calculated for radiation dosage. I understand the definition of the term (50% survive 50% do not )Does it only count death from acute effects in the short term? Or does it count for the long-term chronic effects that may cause cancer or sickness later in life?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
It only counts acute deaths within a particular time period. So if you have an LD50/30 it means 50 percent of those exposed will die in 30 days. It doesn't take long-term deaths into account.
Are iodine pills worth it? Generally, they're meant for those within the 10-mile inhalation EPZ of a nuclear power plant. But I'm not going to fault anyone for having them on hand, just follow the FDA recommendations for use: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/bioterrorism-and-drug-preparedness/frequently-asked-questions-potassium-iodide-ki
Definitely don't use them when they're not necessary... such as when a nuclear reactor melts down 5000 miles away. All you would be doing in a case like that is putting yourself at risk of unnecessary side effects.
PaulBunyanisfromMI@reddit
Thank you.
my11c3nts@reddit
So I have a question for you, if someone were to design a bunker, would a multi layer spaced design work best. Example A reinforced concrete outer shell with a polyurethane coating on the inside and then give it about a foot worth of space to make another one, but that gap is filled with water.
While burying the whole thing, say 6 feet underground. That way, the Earth and concrete can help absorb the rays while the water acts as a buffer and insulator, and then you have your inner concrete bunker with maybe a thin layer of lead to be sure.
I guess what I'm trying to ask is, how hard is it to design a bunker that can stop the multiple types of rays so that the average person could build it and have it be effective.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm not sure what you mean by "the multiple types of rays". Alpha and Beta are less penetrating than gamma, and 3' of soil is enough to reduce gamma exposure by a factor of 1024. You don't need it to be reduced to zero.
Read Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War Survival Skills. It contains plans anyone can use to build improvised fallout shelters. https://ia902306.us.archive.org/19/items/NuclearWarSurvivalSkills_201405/nwss.pdf
my11c3nts@reddit
Well, I'm trying to remember from somewhere, but I heard that one 12 feet of dirt is enough to stop everything. Alpha is enough to be stopped by clothing or a sheet of paper. Beta was anything denser than Aluminum to stop it, and concrete, I think it was, for gamma, And water for neutron is what I heard.
However I will certainly look into that book
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
If you need to stop neutron radiation, you're way too close to ground zero, and you have a whole bunch of other issues to deal with (like ground slap or ground-shock). If that's your situation, you're outside the realm of "do it yourself". That level of protection requires a professional shelter engineer.
my11c3nts@reddit
Noted.... my worry is that I live about 25ish miles from a nuclear power plant as the bird flies, that was just completed last year and was doing a bunch of research as a just in case of an oh f^÷& moment happened....
EDIT Holy s*** That is closer than I thought it was.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I can definitely understand your concern, but I don't think the layered shielding is getting you anything extra. It's certainly not necessary for a meltdown or other release.
Nuclear weapon strikes on nuclear power plants are a bit more... complicated. There isn't a lot of open-source information on those scenarios and even if there were, there are so many variables that it's difficult to speculate on what the release would be like because you have a spectrum of possibilities from the station being blacked out and the safety systems working, to the core materials being incorporated into the fireball and lofted as fallout.
Regardless of the scenario, what you described is not necessary and introduces other engineering challenges or even hazards. If you're serious about having a buried shelter, I recommend contacting a contractor and/or buying a premade shelter. Or, use the improvised designs in Nuclear War Survival Skills. Also, see if you can find this book: https://search.worldcat.org/title/862209369
It may be worth your while to get it via inter-library loan (it'll probably be cost-prohibitive to buy). It may answer a lot of unasked questions you have on this topic.
my11c3nts@reddit
✍️ noted. Have a good rest of your day
my11c3nts@reddit
Noted.... my worry is that I live about 45ish miles from a nuclear power plant as the bird flies, that was just completed last year and was doing a bunch of research as a just in case of an oh f^÷& moment happened....
nice_parcel@reddit
Have you ever come across this YT channel Fallout Raccoon? The info seems good, wondering your take
https://youtu.be/J-v5Tdbi1rw?si=BdTaf_ltFcUNAxlF
Ryan_e3p@reddit
I'll edit this as I watch. So far:
nice_parcel@reddit
Thanks for taking the time to watch. He certainly uses AI to make the cartoon images. I’ve experienced frustration getting AI to spell words correctly when it’s making images so I don’t hold that against him. Curious as to the actual info delivered since that at least isn’t an AI voice over lol.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
I stopped somewhere around the 17 minute mark after seeing infographic after infographic have horrible misspellings. I remember near the beginning the video said that by sealing your house with plastic and duct tape that it makes it "positive pressure", which is absolutely 100% wrong, since that would mean that the house was taking in more air than it could effectively leak out.
And even if the video was promoting to create a positive pressure home, that is still a really, really bad idea, as most people haven't changed their air filters or ensured that they provide sufficient filtration for long past maintenance scheduled dates. In fact, what should be done is to find the circuit controlling any HVAC system and shut it off completely, since if you seal a home but the HVAC is still pulling in nasty crap from the outside, guess what! You're now hotboxing your home with radiation.
Even large civilian commercial HVAC units don't effectively block all dust. These last couple summers, we've had smoke from Canadian wildfires make their way to where I'm at in CT, and after almost a week of it being thick in the atmosphere, you could absolutely smell it inside the building, even several floors up with sealed windows.
And c'mon. They're still images. The creator isn't animating anything. If they aren't bothering to doublecheck the spelling in any of the pictures they are displaying, what makes you think they aren't using AI to write the script? What makes you think the AI writing the script is accurate, and not making up sources? The info they had in this video is just crowdsourced from other videos, which if they are also AI generated, well, welcome to the Death of the Internet. Another infotainment channel, Kurzgesagt, featured this problem in a video a few weeks ago: https://youtu.be/_zfN9wnPvU0?si=7I0LfpkInacWZ8AV&t=155
To be fair though, I decided to watch the first video publicly available. And still, AI generated slop for animation and outright ripping off of Rick and Morty aesthetic, if not outright ripping off actual R&M characters (you can briefly see Rick's face unblurred not 5 seconds into the video). Morty is just everywhere unblurred. But here's the factual errors:
1 & 2: Getting water from car radiators??!? 24 hours into an emergency? Getting water from bird baths? This is absolutely garbage information. There is no reason why potable water won't be found so soon after a massive emergency. Hell, even after Hiroshima had a nuke dropped on it, water was flowing within a few days. Taking the time to get contaminated water, make a filter, boil it, and make it drinkable in the first day is just a massive waste of time and energy. Also, they only talk about boiling water; holy hell, that isn't going to get rid of the heavy metals in old radiator water from a car. Then they suggest eating foods found in the open, which could be contaminated, and doing a quick-and-dirty version of SEAR training for edible plants. And again, this is only 24 hours in. Time wasted that could be spent just breaking the glass of a vending machine in an office building. Then they recommend eating insects (again, this is only twenty four hours in!!!).
I could go on through the rest of the video, but I just can't take it seriously.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'll reserve comment because I haven't watched any of their videos and don't intend to.
myspacetomb@reddit
I already asked a question, but I’ll ask another that is a little bit more serious and fitting with the Sub:
With the re-emergence of nuclear weapons development internationally, and the repeated threats of their use in certain current conflicts, what are steps that average citizens can to prepare for potential large scale exposure to radiation? Obviously if the bomb falls overhead or someone is caught within the blast radius there’s not much to be done, but say for someone living outside of or near the blast zone, or potentially downwind/downstream from it?
myspacetomb@reddit
Essentially what would you keep in a radiation “first aid”/survival kit if you were an average person
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I know those old Russian nuke-first-aid kits and how to replicate them sometimes come up in discussion, but other than the Potassium Iodide (thyroid blocking agent), there really aren't any radiation-specific supplies or medications available over the counter that you could put in such a kit. The antiemetic (anti-vomiting) and antibiotics will be prescription-only. I don't remember what the last med was because it wasn't common in the West. But it too would be prescription-only.
Also, combined radiological injury and trauma is really really really really bad. So, my recommendation is not to worry about adding specialized radiation-specific components to a first aid kit. Save that space for extra bandages, burn dressings, and other things to treat trauma injuries.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Best thing I can tell you is to find best available shelter as soon as possible. Radioactive fallout emits extremely intense radiation right after detonation, but it also decays extremely fast. So you get the MOST benefit out of sheltering right away in maybe not perfect shelter, as opposed to spending a lot of time trying to find perfect shelter, then sheltering.
Soff10@reddit
If I build or use an underground shelter. What’s the minimum depth I need to be to be safe from all radiation?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Approximately 3 feet, assuming fallout only. If you're concerned about prompt radiation and/or neutron radiation from a detonation within 1 mile... you need more than that, but that's beyond the scope of this AMA... in short, there are books you need to consult about it.
Soff10@reddit
Thanks
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Doesn't matter, though all three of those have different shielding factors or half-value layers. For example, it may be 3 feet of packed soil, but 2 feet of concrete. I have a spreadsheet somewhere that does those calculations... but is something like every 3.5" of packed soil or 2 to 2.5" of concrete cuts the intensity of the radiation in half (and you're shooting for 10 half-value layers, which reduces the intensity 2^(10) or 1024 times. There are some other caveats in that the higher the energy of the radiation, for example, the gamma radiation emitted by Co-60 is stronger and more penetrating than the radiation emitted by Cs-137. But, for nuclear weapon fallout it's common to use Cs-137's numbers as an approximation or shorthand.
WizRainparanormal@reddit
What is the best Radiation suit for the money- hopefully under $500
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
There's no such thing as a "radiation suit" per se. The suits you're probably thinking of are just chemsuits or garments that keep the contamination off of you. They're really not doing anything to shield you from the radiation. So a $50 Tyvek suit or even a pair of coveralls would serve just fine as your "radiation suit" if radiation is all you're concerned about.
And before some keyboard warrior rushes in to tell me I'm wrong, yes, I know there are a few suit manufacturers out there making suits with qualities that reduce exposure to some low-energy radiation by a small margin, they are not cost-effective for civilians. You can also achieve exactly the same benefit by limiting your exposure time.
WizRainparanormal@reddit
Thanks that is Helpful - and money saving - I appreciate your sub - 2027 isn't far off.
WizRainparanormal@reddit
DuPont Tyvek 400 TY127S Disposable Protective Coverall with Respirator-Fit Hood and Elastic Cuff, White-
I am buying this so any recommendation on the Respirator ?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Depends on how much you want to spend. I just answered this in a different question so I'm going to paste that response here: Can't go wrong with Avon https://shop.avon-protection.com/collections/respirators-gas-masks . I'd consider one of their C50 masks or any of the others that use standard 40 mm filters.
Haven't used them myself, but I've heard good things about AirBoss Defense https://www.adg.com/cbrn/solutions/respiratory
Scott, MSA, and other companies that make SCBA for firefighters have good products as well.
If you buy a decent mask, store it properly and take care of it, the mask itself will last decades. The filters, if you keep them sealed and don't take them out and play with them, usually have a shelf-life of 5 to 10 years.
PerfectEqual3115@reddit
Which mask would you recommend for civilians who want to be prepared for CRBN dangers?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Can't go wrong with Avon https://shop.avon-protection.com/collections/respirators-gas-masks . I'd consider one of their C50 masks or any of the others that use standard 40 mm filters.
Haven't used them myself, but I've heard good things about AirBoss Defense https://www.adg.com/cbrn/solutions/respiratory
Scott, MSA, and other companies that make SCBA for firefighters have good products as well.
If you buy a decent mask, store it properly and take care of it, the mask itself will last decades. The filters, if you keep them sealed and don't take them out and play with them, usually have a shelf-life of 5 to 10 years.
Pastvariant@reddit
My main concern with a radiological exposure event would be tracking total exposure for each of my family members and being able to effectively detect the types of radiation that could cause us the most harm sufficiently enough to make decisions that could improve our survival.
Can you explain the different types of radiation, rank their risks to humans, and provide specific examples of dosimetry meters and detection devices necessary to address each type/combination devices that are sufficiently sensitive and rugged to be used in a field environment?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
There are three main types of radiation.
Alpha, which is a helium nucleus (2 protons, 2 neutrons) ejected from a nucleus at high speeds. These particles are so large that they only travel a few centimeters in air before they are blocked or absorbed. They are so weakly penetrating that they can't harm you from outside your body because they won't penetrate your outermost layer of skin. However, they are also extremely ionizing and can do 20 times the damage a gamma ray can do if the materials that emit them get inside your body. They are also the most difficult to detect of the three, and detecting them reliably requires specialized equipment like alpha-specific detection probes. Internally, it's the most dangerous to you, but externally it's the least.
Beta, is an electron that gets ejected from an atom at high speeds (can be close to the speed of light). These are more penetrating than alpha, but can be stopped by thin sheets of metal, sheets of plastic, or acrylic. They are a little more hazardous if the materials that emit them get on your skin because the beta particles can penetrate far enough into your skin to cause burns. Inside your body, they do about the same amount of damage as gamma rays. They can usually be detected by most of the same equipment that can detect gamma radiation.
One common misconception I want to address about alpha and beta particles is some people think those particles float around like dust and are being filtered out by masks or filters. That's not the case. They're not the thing floating around (if that's even happening). They are ejected from the nucleus of an atom at such high speed, they don't have time to "float" anywhere before they hit another atom.
Finally, gamma rays are what most people think of when they think of radiation. They're electromagnetic energy, similar to light and they're the most penetrating. X-rays and gamma rays are very similar. X-rays are emitted by the electrons, and gamma radiation is emitted from the nucleus. Gamma radiation is also shorter wavelength, and usually stronger. Because its ability to penetrate materials, gamma radiation is very easy to detect, but that also makes it very hard to shield against. So it requires a considerable amount of dense material (soil, concrete, metal, etc) to shield against gamma radiation.
So those are your 3 main types of radiation. I'm not covering neutron radiation (which is probably the worst) because it's generally only present close in to a nuclear detonation or an operating nuclear reactor. And if you're in either of those places... probably isn't much you can do about protecting yourself.
As far as devices, in my opinion, the most important device to have is something to monitor ambient radiation intensity, and track your dose. Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/365774270357 I'm not endorsing that or any other seller, just providing information.
To be honest, you don't need alpha detection because the likelihood that you will encounter a sole-alpha emitter in a situation that will require you to measure and manage it is so remote it's not worth considering. Basically, you would only encounter it in a dirty bomb scenario, and such a scenario isn't likely to bring prevent the government and emergency responders from managing it. To be honest, if you're running around an RDD hotzone with your own equipment and aren't part of the response, you're going to get yelled at, possibly arrested.
In a nuclear detonation scenario, nuclear fission fallout is a mixture of dozens of elements, and there are always some gamma emitters present. So for nuclear detonation, you only really need gamma detection capability.
Now, that said, if you insist on alpha/beta/gamma contamination detection (this is waving a wand or probe over things to see if they're contaminated), I'd consider this combination of devices: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Ludlum+model+3+44-9
These devices aren't used to tell you how much radiation is around you or track your exposure. That's what the other device is for.
If you've made it this far, I have one more thing to tell you, and you probably won't like it. These devices aren't magic boxes. And I can't simply say to you, "buy this, keep the number under this, and you'll be fine." If it were that easy, I wouldn't be doing what I do. So there's some education you'll need to do, and to help with that, I wrote this post a while back to help people find the necessary resources to educate themselves, because you can buy the most expensive tool on the planet, but it won't do you any good if you don't understand and know how to use it.
PSA: Don't Ask "What Geiger Counter Should I Buy?" until you've read this post.
fatleech@reddit
Is emp as dangerous to small scale electronics not attached to grid as prepper videos show? Im sure we have all built the trash can however small handheld radios/ flashlights would be destroyed? I know the power grid is one large conductive antenna so anything plugged in is toast. But in the testing reports the Camera equipment next to nuke sight survives and the crew is using handheld radios. Plus radios emit tons of their own radiation making me think these things would survive.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I deal primarily with human effects of radiation and EMP is really not my specialty. I know enough to explain the basics to responders, but there are others in the sub who know far more than me. All I can tell you is that yes, damage or disruption is possible, and that damage can range from having to "reboot" a device (or restart a car) to the device being damaged beyond repair. My personal opinion is that the commonly-portrayed effect where EVERYTHING with a microchip gets fried, is probably not accurate. But like I said, it's not my specialty and you'd be better off searching this or other subreddits for information and discussion on it.
fatleech@reddit
Thank you!
HalcyonKnights@reddit
What's your overall opinion of the whole DIY backyard Fusor movement and the concept of producing small quantities of gamma radiation in an amateur setting?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
To have an opinion, I'd need to know the specific situation, dose rates, etc... it's not something I'm prepared to speculate on or make broad statements about here.
HalcyonKnights@reddit
Fair enough. "It depends on the nuance" at least means it's not a 100% idiotic pursuit, so it can remain on my bucket list.
Myspys_35@reddit
In areas where a shelter below ground is not possible; due to mountain rock, watertable, etc. what is the best feasible measure / shelter?
Aka of course below ground is better or if not possible 5ft concrete but if you are in an area where this is not possible what is the best option? E.g. interior room with no windows, floor above, etc?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yep, interior room with no windows, pile belongings around as additional improvised shielding. I've also read where some people set up anti-wildfire washdown systems on their roofs to wash the fallout off the roof which reduces the overhead radiation dose.
Eucalyptus84@reddit
Oh that's interesting, I've also thought of that idea!.. much easier than trying to get \~60cm of concrete or 90cm of earth above you in a shelter inside a modern house that doesn't have a basement.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Indeed. Trying to load up your floor with that much weight could create a dangerous collapse hazard.
audiojanet@reddit
I got diagnosed with polycythemia vera a benign parotid tumor a couple of years ago. I have the non JAK2 variant of PCV. I am a senior so I am guessing the numerous dental x- rays, childhood x-rays ( was hospitalized as a child), and other X-rays from bone density scans etc. caused these mutations. I am also assuming X-rays exposed one to more radiation back in the 60s. Any insight?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm really sorry to hear about your condition but it's not appropriate for me to speculate on your specific situation or give medical advice. What I will say is that while the effects of acute, high-dose exposures are relatively well understood, long-term effects from sub-acute exposures are not. Unfortunately, there's no way to know definitively if a long-term health effect, like cancer, or "mutation", resulted from radiation exposure. To my knowledge, there's no accepted cellular or DNA "marker" that can be looked at to say "yep, this was caused by radiation." When doctors or others "deem" a cause to be from radiation exposure, what they are really saying is "this probably resulted from..." because research has shown that certain effects show up more frequently than others in cases where excessive radiation exposure occurred (i.e. the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Since there's no marker, we have to use probabilities and estimates. But remember, they are only that... estimates.
When long-term health risk estimates are made, they're not individual estimates; they're population estimates. Say an exposure of 10 rem equates to an increase of 0.01% of developing a fatal cancer. What that really means is that if 10,000 people are exposed to that amount of radiation, we expect 1 additional fatal cancer to occur in that population. Some people are more resistant to ionizing radiation, and other people are less resistant. So it's impossible to pin down an individual outcome based on a dose less than that which is expected to cause acute effects like acute radiation syndrome.
Mission-Birthday-101@reddit
What guided toward this career choice?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
My primary career is the fire service, and I got into it because I felt "called" to do it. I'm not going to say any more than that because the details fall under personally identifiable information.
As far as the radiological aspect... that's harder to pin down other than to say I have been interested in nuclear energy and radiation since I was a kid. I got ahold of the school's geiger counter and check sources and spent many hours in study hall taking measurements, learning what shielded what, etc. Learned a lot and dabbled with the idea of becoming a nuclear engineer or working in a nuclear power plant, but opted for a different interest.
Once I was in the fire service and went through my first hazmat classes, some of the material dealt with radioactive materials, and that reawakened my interest. From there, I started taking additional rad-specific classes, attending seminars, learned different response and plume modeling tools, did a lot of self-directed study, etc.
scubasky@reddit
What college degrees do you have in this field?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
None. I have a Bachelor's Degree, but it's mostly unrelated (and no, I won't say what it's in). I came up through the fire service and hazardous materials track which doesn't require degree programs.
If I gave the impression that every SME knows everything about everything, I apologize, because that's not how it works. In my classes, there have been cops, firefighters, military, nuclear engineers, health physicists, radiation protection techs, people in nuclear medicine, you name it. The one thing everyone shared in common was their interest in nuclear/radiation.
The great thing about this role is that there's room for all sorts of backgrounds and those diverse backgrounds complement each other extremely well. During some of the tabletop exercises we did, different people would take the lead on different aspects of the scenario based on their backgrounds. Maybe I don't know the sampling for the ingestion plume phase of a nuclear power plant response, but the guy next to me does. Because they do routine sampling for the state. Maybe during the next exercise, someone needs to embed with the ops section cheif in the incident commnad system to interpret data and translate all of the technical jargon into "dumb firefighter". That's a role I fill well because I have decades of experience in the fire service.
So for those interested in doing work like this, there are a dozen or more different paths you can take to get here. You'll see u/Ryan_e3p post or comment from time to time, he's a USAF CBRNE tech, that's a path you can take. There are people from the state Civil Support Teams running around; that's a path. You can go fire service / hazmat like I did. You could become a radiation protection technician and work outages at nuclear plants. Or, you could get a health physics degree and become an RSO for a hospital, university, plant, etc. If you're really the alpha egghead, you could go nuclear engineering or work your way into the national labs and maybe get selected for a RAP team or work at a FRMAC, the EPA Advisory Team, or some other component of NEST.
minnesota420@reddit
What’s the cheapest best handheld Geiger counter and would it be possible to integrate it into a sort of wristwatch after gutting it?
scubasky@reddit
The Radiacode is the closest to this.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I have no opinion here. You might try looking into the Radiacode 102. It may have some of the features you're looking for.
MetalHeadJoe@reddit
Besides a home Radon detector, is there any other obvious recommended detectors that are a good thing to have?
scubasky@reddit
Radiacode 103
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Well, you don't even need the radon detector. I have one, more or less just because I'm a nerd, but it's better to have a professional long-term test done than have a detector.
There was a company in the 80s that made a home radiation detector that resembled a smoke detector... but with social media today, I think it's really really really really really unlikely that fallout is going to sneak up on you.
If you have gas appliances, a combustible gas detector would be a good idea.
If you are looking for something radiation related, you might try checking out the ones frequently mentioned in r/radiation. I think I mentioned in a different answer some of the radiation-specific devices I'm fond of.
MetalHeadJoe@reddit
Depends really on where you live if you need one or not I guess.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I think it depends more on whether you're willing to take the time to learn how to use it. One of my big pet peeves is that people expect geiger counters and radiation instrumentation to behave like magic boxes that will tell them if they're safe or not regardless of the circumstances or how they use them. And it really doesn't work that way.
MetalHeadJoe@reddit
I'm with you there. Too many people need to RTFM.
mjolle@reddit
Interesting subject!
Two questions, both about stuff blowing up:
1) We've seen the Chernobyl accident and what happened at Fukushima. One seems to be the result of human arrogance, the other from a tsunami. How safe are nuclear power plants today? How have the safety measures improved over time?
2) During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, there have been a lot of talk about the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, that Russian may manufacture an large scale incident there. How do nuclear facilities play into modern conflicts? Is it a credible threat nowadays in a war that they may become targets?
Thanks for taking the time!
scubasky@reddit
IS reactors are very safe. See the new Smarter Every Day video where Destin was allowed to go all the way to the top of an open reactor and view the refueling process. It shows a week of training he had to do just to go film inside.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
The first question would be a better one for r/nuclear or r/NuclearPower. I could give you a very basic explanation in that, yes, there were a lot of "lessons learned" from both incidents and those lessons have been applied.
As for the second question, yes, nuclear plants are absolutely a concern in any conflict. However, they are not a global concern per se. Yes, if there was an accident at Zaporizhzhia, it could be devastating for the surrounding area. However, it's not going to cause a major issue for far away locations like the US.
shootnjohn@reddit
These are just my humble opinion. One. Nuclear power plants in the United States are well designed and more importantly staffed with very competent operators. Most of them were operators of reactors in the Navy. I can’t speak for any plants outside of our country, but I am going to assume that they are well designed also. Two. Nuclear plants are definitely a potential threat. But I’m sure they are well protected both design wise and by security forces. Again, just my opinion, not based on actual experience.
shikkonin@reddit
A fact which actually directly contributed to the severity of the Three Mile Island accident.
PurplePickle3@reddit
Best at home radiation detector, for most radiation types (intentionally keeping the question basic)?
scubasky@reddit
Radiacode 103, or GMC 600+ if you want alpha. The Radiacode 103 tells you dose rate AND what it is. The GMC has a pancake detector and is sensitive to alpha.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
The answer really depends on what you want to do with it. If you only want to know if gamma-emitting contamination is present, you don't need an expensive device for that. Plenty of cheap crappy devices out there that will do that.
On the other hand, if you want something that will monitor the dose you're receiving and the intensity of the radiation around you... the cheapos won't work for that because they typically max out well below where radiation exposure starts becoming acutely dangerous. For the later, I tend to recommend people look for good working surplus equipment, then get it calibrated (or validated). One of the more affordable devices out there is the Ludlum Model 25. It's probably one of the only devices for under $1000 suitable for true radiological emergencies. It will register up to 999 R/hr (most devices you buy on Amazon will top out at less than 1 R/hr). Other good choices would be Mirion AccuRad, UltraRadiac, surplus AN/UDR-13s, ADM-300s, Rae Systems GammaRAE IIRs, TracerCo PEDs, etc.
If you're set on a full-spectrum solution... I'd look for a used ADM-300 kit on ebay. Those kits have specific probes for alpha, beta, and gamma is built into the main unit. Otherwise, the Ludlum Model 3 & 44-9 probe is a good all around (most alpha), beta, gamma contamination monitor / survey meter.
boxtroutalpha@reddit
Anyone with thoughts on the Fluke 451B survey meter?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
It's one of the go-to devices for determining dose rate as ion-chamber devices tend to provide the best representation of exposure.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
I can recommend one, but with a few caveats: Better Geiger. The person who makes them frequents this sub, and while I won't call out their username directly, you can search the sub for them (or they might pop in and give more info). They can detect gamma/xray, and can detect beta (with lesser sensitivity).
If your goal is to detect alpha, then that's going to be a bit more difficult. Ionizing alpha generally doesn't emit far. Whilst in the AF as a CBRNE tech, the alpha detection equipment we used was very fragile and required being used a few inches from the source. It was fragile due to the nature of alpha; it (generally) does not penetrate. 500ft view: so, the detection equipment used a large 4"x4" very thin and fragile sheet, sort of like the thinnest aluminum foil you can think of, and when the alpha particles hit it, the sheet gave a 'ping'. This sheet had to be so fragile to detect alpha that a blade of grass could puncture the foil. So, again generally speaking, trying to measure alpha requires very dedicated equipment to do. Between the fragility and more or less "single-use" detection capabilities, and alpha not being a penetration-threat, beta/gamma/xray is more of a primary concern.
But overall, different detectors are going to be more sensitive or more accurate for things than others. It's almost always going to be a trade-off.
Xmatter00@reddit
I'd recommend a Mirion ecogamma probe or Scienta SARA probe for dose and gamma monitoring if you have the money.
ThisThredditor@reddit
I hear that a decimitor that goes up to 3.6 rontgen ought to do
winston_obrien@reddit
That’s not great, but terrible, either way
shootnjohn@reddit
Any gamma detector would be most useful. Other radiation emitters that put out neutron, alpha or beta radiation and less harmful to humans or less likely to be present.
PurplePickle3@reddit
Do you have a recommendation/share what you have yourself?
shootnjohn@reddit
I personally do not have one, went in the Navy. I used plenty, but I don’t feel the need for one here. If the worst does happen based on location and direction, I will take the appropriate actions if I am able to. I have looked on eBay and Amazon and in the worst case Mid range game detectors would give you a ballpark figure to work with. But if you don’t know what the counts per minute read out or millisieverts or whatever your particular device reads out and if you don’t know what that means, it doesn’t really do you any good. I’m sure this does not answer your question, but I would guess that anything is better than nothing. As long as you look up the ranges and how bad it is before the EMP wipes out the Internet.
PurplePickle3@reddit
I’m at least aware enough to know what I don’t know. This actually answers my question exactly how I expected to be answered. Hell there’s a post on r/radiation right now that says not to ask about detectors until you read X Y and Z.
shootnjohn@reddit
Game should be gamma. Speak to text does not always transcribe accurately.
shootnjohn@reddit
Your turn to start answering. My fingers are getting tired.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
No problem, thanks for keeping everyone entertained while I got caught up.
shootnjohn@reddit
👍
Heamora@reddit
Incredible resource for this community. Thank you for sharing your deep expertise on radiological emergencies and public protection. Your insights on preparedness are invaluable.
Gene-reader@reddit
I recently read that headphones/earphones emit radiation (I wear them while doing my prepper work so it's related lol). I even sleep in them to drown out my spouses snoring so I'm wearing them about 15 hours a day. I'm freaking out a little because I had 25 radiation treatments six years ago due to cancer. So, if headphones do emit radiation, is it a problem or is it a negligible amount? Thanks for taking the time to help us here.
abitdaft1776@reddit
Hi, nuclear reactor operator chiming in. Radiation is a catch all term for all electromagnetic energy, which is everything from radio waves to microwaves and the visible light in between.
The radiation emitted by your headphones is low energy, meaning it doesn't have the particle mass and/or the speed to cause ionization of the cytoplasm (water) in your cells.
This is the primary method of long term radiation damage. (Think of short term as similar to a sunburn, since they are effectively the same). When the water in the cells becomes ionized you end up with free radicals, or oxidized variants of the DNA building blocks (Adenine, thymine, granite and cytozine). Since messenger and transcription RNA cannot differentiate between oxidized and non oxidized amino acids the chance of "transcription" errors during the cell division process increases.
This has the potential to result in mutated daughter cells that survive and may cause rapid growth, which is basically what cancer is.
TLDR; your headphones are perfectly safe
Pastvariant@reddit
Yeah, I would be way more concerned about long term hearing damage and ear infections here. There are also some studies showing that drowning out too much of the small background sounds in our daily life can be bad for mental health and long term headphone use can lead to you being overly sensitive to noise.
Consider having your husband get a sleep study to get checked for sleep apnea and have him lose weight if he is over weight. I would also recommend changing to passing ear plugs at night, if you still find that you want to use them.
Gene-reader@reddit
Thanks so much for the reply and providing my ADD brain with the tldr. After the cancer I worry so much about leaving my kids without a Mom. I know that my question wasn't really what the thread was about but I am willing to look a fool to ease my mind about my kids. I really, really appreciate your detailed answer.
abitdaft1776@reddit
Feel free to DM with other questions
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Like abitdaft said, that's not ionizing radiation and not what's being discussed here.
AlpacaSwimTeam@reddit
I'm looking at buying land in South Carolina. Where would you Not buy, specifically talking about this subject matter? To save you some time, assume I'm not talking about near or in any of the major metro areas. Thanks in advance for your insight OP.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I don't have any special knowledge about where to or where not to live/buy land, so my go-to for questions like this is this project: https://github.com/davidteter/OPEN-RISOP
In your case, you'd want to look in target graphics, ideally with a PC or laptop, and look at the maps for SC which will show you something like this:
It's not an absolute... it's just one scenario.
AlpacaSwimTeam@reddit
Super cool! I was hoping you had something like this up your sleeve! Thank you! This will definitely give me a jumping off point.
Lemeus@reddit
Do the chickens have large talons?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yes. GOSH!
Yodels_with_yeti@reddit
If a mid size exchange occurred and you lived downwind, but at a great distance (>500 miles), from a major target how can you harden your home to shield you from as much fallout as possible?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Cresson Kearny's "Nuclear War Survival Skills" goes into great detail on how to protect yourself from fallout. There are also legacy books and manuals from the now defunct Civil Defense Agency (FEMA's predecessor) on how to build improvised shelters in basements, etc.
Now, one thing I need to point out about those resources is they were written in the 50s/60s when homes were constructed in a far more... robust manner. Shielding against radiation happens by adding mass (weight). For example, if you wanted to better shield a room in the basement against fallout on the roof, you could lay sandbags on the floor above to add shielding. HOWEVER... if you add too much weight you'll collapse the floor. Even if you're laying sandbags in the basement, residential slabs may be damaged by large weight loads. So before setting out on something like this, I recommend talking to a structural engineer about your plans so you don't create a collapse hazard.
Now, to address your specific situation... is that "major target" a city? If so, chances are that city will be struck by air bursts which don't produce anywhere near as much fallout as say multiple surface bursts at the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, FE Warren's ICBM fields, etc. If you're 500 miles downwind from ICBM bases, doing the above might not be a bad idea... just watch the weight. If you're 500 miles from... Chicago... even if there are surface bursts at the airports, you probably won't need to do as much hardening as you might think. A basement may be sufficient. You may have heard of the NukeMap website. You can use it to get a very rough idea as to what the fallout conditions may be at 500 miles from whatever target you're talking about. Bear in mind there also could be targets closer to you that you don't know about. David Teter ( u/dmteter ) did a project a number of years ago where he produced a large database of potential targets, fallout maps for simulated wind conditions, etc. It's one of the best resources of its type I've seen. You can find it here: https://github.com/davidteter/OPEN-RISOP
dmteter@reddit
Hey. Thanks for the shout out. FYI, I will be updating the project in the near future as well as putting together some exchange models.
Pastvariant@reddit
Thank you for putting these together! What is the best way to bulk download this stuff from Github?
dmteter@reddit
I honestly have no idea! Sorry :)
Ryan_e3p@reddit
It could be a lot of fallout, could be none. Depends on the type of strike, which is primarily influenced by the target.
A nuclear strike that is an air-burst will have minimal fallout. General rule of thumb, if the fireball doesn't touch the ground, fallout will be minimal since neutron activation, the process where 'stuff' is made to be radioactive, is reduced. As an example, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The radiation in the area was minimal enough for emergency crews to work in the city soon after the explosions. An air-burst is more ideal and the other type, a surface-burst, since it allows for more overall destruction since it allows the thermal and blast waves to grow in size before striking the ground.
A surface-burst puts more energy onto a direct target on the ground, which is what is expected to happen to the nuclear silos in the midwest should they be targeted. This would create much more fallout than an air-burst.
As for protecting the home, sealing it as best you can. Windows, doors, and having air filtration. If the filters used are rated to protect against viruses, it should be effective for radioactive fallout. As a side note, however, going to change the filters that are contaminated needs to be done with caution, as the radioactive material can end up all over your body, and contaminate inside the HVAC system if not changed out with care to avoid the dust particles from being kicked up and sucked/blown inside from air currents. Not many homes have the capability to be 'positive pressure' on the inside, but that would be ideal as well, but requires a lot of investment into making the house completely sealed with an HVAC system that can pull more air into the house faster than the house can leak it out.
shootnjohn@reddit
Hard to shield from fallout, which is basically radioactive dust. If you mean the radiation, then use lead, steel, water, wood, or any other dense material. The more the better.
KindPresentation5686@reddit
Going to a few CDP courses does not make you an expert.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
lol show me on your Reddit history where I hurt you.
scv_gone_wild@reddit
What is the best type of radiation detector in the scenario of nuclear fallout (to check if it is safe to go out)? What maximum range should it have?
What is the best type of radiation detector in the scenario similar to Chernobyl disaster? Should it have spectrometer to identify the izotopes?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
it's maximum range is 999 r/hr
As I've said to others, your choice of equipment depends on what you plan to do with it. Are you tracking your dose, checking ambient dose rates, measuring contamination? Very, very, very few devices do all of the above at the same time and do it well. The ADM-300 Kits are one of them and sometimes you can find them on ebay for around $1000.
SaveSummer6041@reddit
What are the key computational fluid dynamics or multi-physics modeling challenges in simulating severe accident scenarios (e.g., a total station black-out combined with a breach of multiple containment barriers), and how are the uncertainties in these simulations addressed to inform real-world emergency response strategies beyond the standard 10 and 50-mile planning zones?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Sorry, not answering homework questions or writing anyone's thesis for them.
SaveSummer6041@reddit
Was really hoping for some real world insight. From the looks of it, though, I may have misunderstood your expertise. You mentioned training, not necessarily degrees, etc.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm not a nuclear safety engineer and don't get to play with MELCOR, MACCS, or any of the really fun NPP simulation toys. So what you're asking is well above my paygrade. However, within my realm, I can tell you we deal with uncertainties by using conservative assumptions on top of often already conservative computational methods. For example, with some dose calculations, the methodology and foundational stuides have even more conservatism built-in, to the point where the results we get may be overly limiting. So even subject matter experts like myself are required to consult other subject matter experts to figure out if the results we're getting are usable.
xdagget@reddit
What prepps you have or recommend for radiation humans cars electronics prepps.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
You can't make a car EMP-proof if that's what you're asking, however, we also don't know exactly how badly damaged vehicles will be. Some may be permanently disabled, others (even modern ones) may only need to be turned off and restarted. EMP is really not my specialty though, so I recommend searching the sub for other posts on it.
xdagget@reddit
do we have an iota of chance to survive or its all theory everything will be evaporated?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Unless you're levitating thousands of feet off the ground, or standing on a silo door, you have almost no chance of being vaporized or evaporated. The vast majority of the area affected by a nuclear weapon is survivable. The vast majority of area affected by fallout, is also survivable provided you take shelter. But if you just stand out in the open, your odds of survival drop rapidly.
The_white_devil22@reddit
Do fish get thirsty?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
None of the ones I've caught have ever complained about being thirsty, so I suspect not.
infinitum3d@reddit
What is the absolute minimum the average Joe can do to reduce their radiation exposure?
Conversely, what is the most the average person can do to reduce their radiation exposure?
Thanks!
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
It's all situationally dependent, but think time, distance, and shielding. Think about how you can decrease your exposure time, increase your distance from the source of radiation, or increase shielding.
infinitum3d@reddit
Great answer! Cheers!
shootnjohn@reddit
The absolute minimum, would be to do nothing. Conversely, the maximum you can do to minimize radiation is build a underground shelter, at least 50 feet deep with ultra filtered air system, and enough supplies to last several years. That would be a good start.
infinitum3d@reddit
How does doing nothing reduce my exposure?
PrepperBoi@reddit
Do you recommend sealing a house with duct tape in the time it takes from the nuclear event to fallout reaching your home? I’ve seen mixed reviews.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Absolutely not. At least you should only be sealing up broken windows. I wrote a PSA about this a few years ago explaining why it's a bad idea. Tl;dr, if you have no way to monitor CO2 build-up (from your own exhalation) it's dangerous because CO2 can be poisonous if it builds up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/xzsejn/psa_do_not_seal_your_shelter_when_sheltering/
PrepperBoi@reddit
So if you can have an air scrubber, would it be better to seal then?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
What do you mean by "air scrubber"? Do you mean a CO2 scrubber?
PrepperBoi@reddit
Hepa filter and c02 scrubber, yes.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Sounds like overkill, but sure. Just make sure you have a CO2 monitor as well.
IrwinJFinster@reddit
Given your background, are you a “prepare for Tuesday” kinda guy, or a “prepare for doomsday too” kinda guy (or something in between)?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm a prepare for both kinda guy because there's crossover in both. Prepping for being snowed in for a week or two also helps prepare for having to shelter in place for a week or two.
IrwinJFinster@reddit
Thank you
nanneryeeter@reddit
How effective would a p100 be in regards to fallout?
I understand there are NBC filters, but fallout as I can tell seems to be particles that have been imbued with radioactivity. Is the radioactivity attached to the particles that a p100 would generally filter, or are they something separate?
I grew up near and currently live near possibly one of the worst radiological sites in the US. The government has admittedly in the past run experiments to poison the public living in the area with radioactivity particles.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
For nuclear weapon or dirty bomb fallout? Very effective. There may be some exceptions with nuclear plant releases as some of the release components there can be gas or vapor. But as far as nuclear weapon fallout goes, as you said the fallout are particulates of varying sizes so a P100 will filter them just fine. "Early" or "Local" fallout is generally large enough that it's not a significant inhalation hazard so even crude filtration methods (cloths, etc) can be effective.
nanneryeeter@reddit
Thanks for the response!
Do you know which nuclear hazards an NBC rated filter would protect against that a p100 would not?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
You would have to look at the manufacturer's information.
3337jess@reddit
Thoughts on Long Island as a potential target being it’s just outside NYC?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
This is "left of boom" and not really my specialty. Check out this website: https://github.com/davidteter/OPEN-RISOP/tree/main/TARGET%20GRAPHICS/OPEN-RISOP%201.00%20MIXED%20COUNTERFORCE%2BCOUNTERVALUE%20ATTACK
Still-Persimmon-2652@reddit
So general fear? If you totaled up all the deaths from Coal mining disasters and then disease like black lung and the deaths and injures from oil and gas drilling vs. all of the fatalities and/or injuries from Nuclear power and related injuries there is no comparison which has less deaths and injuries/KwHr.
Last, I watched the documentary Uranium on Amazon Prime and though it was both educational and very interesting. In the end the young physicist that was the host and narrator decided that in the end we are just not ready for it yet as a sustainable energy source. How do you feel about that?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
The politics of nuclear energy is really not something I want to delve into here.
myspacetomb@reddit
This may be a silly question, but I saw a post the other day that essentially said that if you expose a bottle of beer to a nuclear blast, the glass would become irradiated but the beer itself would not, and so long as you poured the beer into a different glass it would be safe to drink.
Can you confirm/deny this? If so why? I suppose thinking on it it doesn’t make any sense to me that the radiation would stick to the glass but not the liquid. If so, are there any other examples of this sort of thing?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I don't know enough about neutron-activation radiochemistry to give you a detailed explanation other than to say both will become radioactive through neutron activation if they are close enough to the blast to be exposed to neutron radiation, and the bottle somehow survived the blast forces. But, there may be differences in the half-life and/or radioactivity of the beer versus the glass, and that may be where that claim comes from. I'm afraid I don't have the required knowledge to prove or disprove it.
As far as nuclear blasts, fallout, and food... exposing food or other materials to any other kind of radiation (such as gamma radiation from fallout) does not make food radioactive. In fact, some food is routinely irradiated to improve its shelf life, kill pathogens, etc. So as long as radioactive contamination doesn't get inside the food packaging, or on the food, it won't be contaminated. Also, in the case of say... an apple, you could just wash the apple off or peel it and that would get rid of nearly all of the contamination.
Efficient_Rhubarb_43@reddit
I'm not the expert here but I do know the answer to this one. The above should be true. Alpha radiation (particles) cannot pass though solids and will be stopped by the glass, but they will be dangerous emitting beta radiation (electrons) which and gamma as they decay, which CAN pass through solids. You can think of alpha as dust. The gamma radiation is electromagnetic, more like light, it will pass through the glass and the water but not linger. Lots of fruit and veg are treated with gamma radiation to kill bacteria, it's like switching a light on and off, harmful for just that split second it passes through you, then it's gone.
etherlinkage@reddit
What do your preps look like? To the best of your knowledge, how might they be different from most of us?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
They don't involve as much rad-specific stuff as you'd think. Still mostly food, water filtration, etc. I have a surplus ADM-300 kit and a surplus AN/UDR-13 for my primary radiation instrumentation. They should handle anything I could possibly throw at them. Respiratory protection is Scott, Avon, etc. Tyvek for fallout. Nothing I can think of is super exotic.
etherlinkage@reddit
Thank you
Delgra@reddit
Could you elaborate on the respiratory protection? I don’t know what you mean by Scott, Avon, etc. Also you keep Tyvek (as in the material houses are wrapped in) for what purpose? Creating more barriers? What’s the application?
Sansui350A@reddit
These are brands.. Scott and Avon gasmasks.. and Tyvek-material based coveralls (with additional coatings depending on rating) etc from Dupont, Kappler, Lakeland, (others from Ansell etc).
andy1rn@reddit
If there's a nuclear accident or bomb, either resulting in fallout, are there measures you can take to have usable soil for crops/vegetable gardens in the near aftermath? How deep would you need to scrape the soil (assuming no immediate rainfall) to have access to uncontaminated ground? Would a ground tarp that was spread out before the hypothetical event protect the soil beneath it? And would the same apply to an above ground pool/storage shed etc?
Several questions, but all in the same vein. Thank you!
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Just as basic improvised measures, yes, a tarp may work, but you could still get some contamination infiltration back onto the covered area through runoff, wind, etc. I can't really comment beyond that because remediation is incident and location-specific and I'd just be digging through guidance docs. There were some cold-war era guides on this though... https://digital.sciencehistory.org/works/x66sivk
NuclearStudent@reddit
Legal question:
It's the right of Canadian private citizen to own and chemically process a couple kilograms of nonenriched uranium, as long as the radioactive material is below the activity limit of intensity and personal exemption limit of mass.
I know that Americans can legally purchase and own uranium privately, but what are the legal restrictions on a private American citizen messing around with uranium chemistry? Do you need to register with a lab or as a lab? What's the paperwork you need for that?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I'm not answering any legal or regulatory questions. There are some people in r/radiation who work in regulatory positions who may be able to answer this for you.
NuclearStudent@reddit
Understandable.
I am a Canadian with a chemical engineering degree and some experience with civil/chemical companies, but none directly nuclear. Given that America tends to hire domestics first for obvious reasons, do foreigners have a shot at getting into your general field of radiological safety or nuclear related work?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Most career fire departments require you to be a citizen, there may be a few that don't. I don't know about any other line of work. There are also safety experts at universities, at private companies, in local, county, state, and federal government, etc... I can't speak to the requirements of any of those positions or careers. You would need to do some research on that and/or call around.
NuclearStudent@reddit
Thanks!
PrudentTask9355@reddit
I took a quick glance before asking, but what can you share regarding residential shelter-in-place actions and fallout precautions, specifically pertaining to air filtration
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I can tell you that you don't need as robust air filtration as you may think. When it comes to radiological emergencies, the biggest hazard to you is external exposure to radiation. This means the radiation dose you receive from materials outside your body. Think of it this way, when it comes to nuclear weapon fallout, it would be better for you to be sheltered in a drafty basement with a broken window, than it would for you to be in an aboveground, perfectly sealed tent with perfect air filtration. Does that make sense?
PrudentTask9355@reddit
Crystal 👌
enolaholmes23@reddit
What are your thoughts on taking potassium iodide to protect your thyroid during fallout? I've read that it's only recommended for young people under 20, but that there's not too many studies on it. It is worth it for older people to take it just in case? Or if you are in a higher risk category like being a woman or having thyroid disorder, should you take it even if you are older?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
The FDA has a good FAQ page here: https://www.fda.gov/drugs/bioterrorism-and-drug-preparedness/frequently-asked-questions-potassium-iodide-ki and I would recommend sticking to those recommendations. Those recommendations, are my recommendations. I can't make any recommendations outside of the FDA guidelines.
Eucalyptus84@reddit
Frontline hospital healthcare staff. In the event of a nuclear detonation of your city... what are my chances if I have to go to work to help? What would you do to reduce risk of radiation exposure? Do you think we should go straight away? Or are we better to wait sometime before we go in?
r_frsradio_admin@reddit
If you ever get an opportunity to participate in your organization's disaster response exercises, it's worthwhile. They may or may not train folks specifically on a "nuclear blast" scenario but they typically do have plans for events that render entire hospitals uninhabitable, loss of communications, massive triage operations etc. It's an impressive and humbling experience. And they often need volunteers to serve as victims and such.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
So explaining this (in person) is basically what being a ROSS is all about, and there are guides we use for this:
https://www.fema.gov/sites/default/files/documents/fema_nuc-detonation-planning-guide.pdf
https://remm.hhs.gov/fema_oet-72-hour-nuclear-detonation-response-guidance.pdf
Cliffs notes (or the tl;dr for younger viewers) are that you can go right into some areas, but you will need to stay out of others. You will find your best chance of finding people who need urgent help (and who are still viable) in the moderate damage zone.
You won't be able to do much in the severe damage zone due to debris and radiation, also the victims there are more likely to have injuries incompatible with life and or radiation doses which won't be survivable.
Your radiation exposure as a responder will need to be managed because there is nothing you can wear that will block the radiation from nuclear weapon fallout. There really isn't a lot you can do to reduce your exposure other than reduce the amount of time you spend in areas with elevated radiation levels.
DrawOkCards@reddit
Hi OP, in your personal opinion, how much do we generally "need" to worry about nuclear radiation for a not doomsday prep and what would be effective ways to prep for a serious emergency at a NPP? Iodine tablet's? Window Coverings?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Not a lot. In the US at least we're really good at controlling the risks from radioactive materials. The plans for nuclear plants are very, very robust and to be honest, many other things out there have a much higher potential to kill us (cars, falls, drowning, meteorites).
I would definitely be careful about sealing your doors and windows. Even in a nuclear power plant event where vapor intrusion is a possibility, you need to monitor for CO2 build-up if you're going to do it, because excessively high concentrations of CO2 will kill you long before radiation ever could.
Vord_Lader@reddit
Whats the TOP Radiation Risk that most people are unaware on a daily basis.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
There really aren't that many radiation risks out there, at least in the US, because we're extremely good at controlling the risks from manmade radiation sources. As a result, I don't get a lot of work, but that's also the way I want it. So, I would have to say radon is probably the top radiation risk that most people probably live with and don't even know about or think about.
12-7_Apocalypse@reddit
Is any attempt to survive a nuclear blast futile, even with being prepared, or are there actual training and resources that would actually be helpful. Also, what did you think of the 1984 movie 'Threads'?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Contrary to what Hollywood and most other productions want you to believe, the vast majority of the area outside the "Severe Damage Zone" or SDZ, is survivable provided you take shelter or protective action. Let me show you something
This shows 4 different weapon yields. Hollywood would have you believe that everyone in the shaded areas (regardless of the color) will be killed by the detonation. That's not the case. Yes, nearly everyone in the dark red area will be killed, there's no getting around that. It'd be no different if a 2000 lb conventional bomb landed right on your house. In the orange areas, yes, there will be casualties as well, but nowhere near as many as the red area. In the yellow area, virtually no one would be killed except from traffic accidents, flying debris, etc. So say you're in the area with the dotted blue line and instead of "duck and cover" you opt to stand there and "take it" because you think you're going to die anyway. Well, you just earned yourself a painful death due to totally preventable 2nd+ degree burn and or your clothes being melted to you. Or maybe on the edge of the orange area you get a window blown into your face and blinded by flying glass.
Threads was fine as a "work of art" but too many people treat it like it's a documentary or authoritative information on weapon effects. It's really not. It's a work of art and nothing more.
Theconz739@reddit
Hey, thanks for the AMA.
How do you clean water after a fallout?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Very simple filtration, such as a basic sand filter, or any of the commercial filters MSR, Katadyn, etc... will clean enough of it out to be "safe enough" to keep you alive. It may not meet "regulatory standards" but it'll keep you alive. Even current FEMA recommendations are to not sweat radioactive contamination if you need water to survive. Ion-exchange, such as running it through a water softener is supposed to get more stuff out, but again, if you need water, it's not like the video games or movies where you're going to get radiation sickness from drinking it without completely zeroing out the levels of radionuclides.
Theconz739@reddit
Amazing thanks for the info!
Fit-Sort-1690@reddit
I've no questions but just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to answer people's queries, it's been an interesting read and some useful information in the post.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Thank you, and you're welcome. Keep checking back because I'm slowly chipping away at more and more questions. Sorta wasn't expecting this big of a flood of questions this fast.
DonkeyBrainsMD@reddit
What would be the minimum distance you'd feel comfortable living from a major target city like Chicago if nuclear war were to happen?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Just a stab in the dark? 50 miles outside the metro area. But warheads can overshoot/undershoot by that much. This is sorta getting into stuff that's a little outside my purview, but with cities like Chicago, you're probably looking at a spread of airbursts over the metro area and some surface bursts at the major airports. Take a look at this github project: https://github.com/davidteter/OPEN-RISOP/tree/main
lumpkin2013@reddit
I just started playing fallout 4 again. Are there such things as rad-x (reduces radiation taken into your body for a short amount of time) or rad-away (liquid solution that flushes radiated fallout out of your body) in the real world?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yes... sort of.
There are drugs like prussian blue, DTPA, and ETDA that help flush materials like cesium (which is a major component of fallout) out of your body. Potassium Iodide (KI) helps block the absorption of radioactive iodine. There's Neupogen/filgrastim which helps your body rebuild white blood cells. There's BCN057, it helps repair intestinal crypt cells damaged by radiation.
There are probably others as well, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
badsanta214@reddit
Can you explain your formal training and education?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
It's mostly fire service-related. I'm a Hazardous Materials Specialist (the level above technician) and have taken a boat-load of FEMA, CTOS, CDP, etc courses over the years. There's no degree for what I know or do, it's basically, if I see a radiological emergency response-related course come available, I take it.
If you look at this document: https://crcpd.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Radiological-Operations-Support-Specialist.Pos_.pdf
I have covered much of the educational and training requirements of Type-4, Type-3, and Type-2.
DSBYOLOO@reddit
If a reactor is hit in a nuclear exchange what is the size of the radius that will be affected? From what I understand this is the worst case in an exchange. And, lets say the reactor is not hit but the power is lost due to an EMP, in a modern reactor would the rods drop, turn off, and become safe? Thanks.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
So we discussed this in r/nuclearweapons a few years ago and I've also seen it mentioned in a few books and articles I've read. IIRC, it increased the range of the dangerous fallout contours of a 1MT yield warhead (which is already pretty significant) by maybe 20-50%. It's definitely a concern, as would spent fuel storage sites, but it doesn't turn the entire fallout track into an unsurvivable wasteland where it may have been survivable with only the nuke.
On the second part, yes, as soon as power is lost, the reactor SCRAMs. This is called a station blackout and it's something that has been planned and prepared for. However, even after a SCRAM, a plant is still producing a significant amount of heat and needs water circulated. If that doesn't happen, you could have a Fukushima-like release. Not as bad as Chernobyl, but still bad for the area in the immediate vicinity of the plant. I don't know enough about nuclear plant control systems, backups, etc... to know if the EMP would affect those or prevent the plant from reaching "cold shutdown". That would be a question for a nuclear safety engineer, which I'm not, or for one of the nuclear power subreddits.
spleencheesemonkey@reddit
How does radiation/fallout differ if a neutron bomb were to be used? Would the actions taken to protect yourself be any different from a thermonuclear or fission bomb?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
There's no difference. "Neutron bombs" or Enhanced Radiation Weapons are simply devices that have been constructed in a manner to release prompt radiation instead of harnessing it to increase yield. In fact, most of your low-yield weapons in the tens of kilotons behave similarly to an ERW because the range of fatal prompt radiation effects can exceed the range of fatal blast effects. As far as fallout goes, there's virtually no difference. An ERW and equivalent-yield conventional devices will produce roughly the same fallout effects because the neutron-activated materials really don't contribute that much to the overall radiation field.
spleencheesemonkey@reddit
Thank you.
sgtPresto@reddit
I live 35 miles from a like military target, an aur force base, and know i will be safe from immediate blast area. I also believe i will be safe from most fallout as the prevailing winds are in opposite direction. Can i assume that if I am inside with all windows and doors sealed and HEPA filters on air intake that I should be good? I have a monitor and dosimeter to keep an eye on conditions.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
So first thing... don't assume "prevailing winds" will keep you safe. I have done a lot of fallout dispersal modelling and mapping and I have seen some really weird dispersal patterns using actual wind conditions. When fallout is dispersed it drops through numerous wind fields that don't all travel in the same direction. Those wind fields can change seasonally, daily, hourly... I've seen plenty of fallout tracks that go west when you'd think they should be going east. So don't assume prevailing winds will save you.
The hazard fallout poses isn't from inhalation. It is *almost* just as dangerous sitting out on your lawn as it is sitting in your living room because the gamma radiation it emits can penetrate walls, etc. Now, the good thing is that your home will block about half of that radiation, as opposed to you standing outside in it. A basement is even better as it will block 90%. The bad news is that if you live on the doorstep of FE Warren, Malmstrom, or Minot... 90% may not be good enough. You might need 99.9% or at least 99% of it blocked.
sgtPresto@reddit
If there is a a nuclear exchange with the US and another country, what is the likely hood of an EMP being used to deactivate electronics
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
This really isn't my wheelhouse, but IMO, if you're talking about peer-state exchanges? I'd say near 100%. It's low-hanging fruit and an easy way to severely disrupt a nation's infrastructure even if it won't stop their military.
Drawsblanket@reddit
I read in case of an attack to go to a basement and block windows with mass like books and cover cracks in doors. Is that right? If an attack is 3 miles from me is there any way to estimate whether I’d survive
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
In a rough sense, yes, that's correct. You don't need to worry about cracks in doors, fallout isn't like a "gas", it's more like sand. So unless you have problems with sand currently blowing into your home or shelter, you don't need to do any "sealing". In fact, it can be dangerous to seal up your shelter area if you have no way to monitor for buildup of exhaled CO2.
You can use the nukemap website for rough approximations for effects distances. 5 psi will usually collapse a home, but so do tornados, right? My recommendation is to prepare as though you're going to go on living, until you're proven otherwise. It'd suck if that location was ignored and you just plain starved, wouldn't it?
adultswim42@reddit
During your work have you ever experienced or heard of non human interaction at nuke sites?
Living near Savannah GA, is it even worth prepping or will I be wiped?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
No
I have no way of predicting the scale or extent of any disaster, there are too many variables. My recommendation is to prepare as though you're going to go on living, until you're proven otherwise. It'd suck if the site was ignored and you just plain starved, wouldn't it?
adeadhead@reddit
Anything worth keeping in a first aid kit that'll keep for an extended period and make a difference relating to radiation?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Nope. Radiological events aren't that unique.
adeadhead@reddit
Fair enough
Ok_Tart321@reddit
preppers-ModTeam@reddit
Your submission has been removed for being "Not focused on prepping/Off-Topic - Political." Try to keep posts and comments on the topic of prepping and not on politics. You may reference political events in your posts and comments as a way to lead into a discussion of prepping, but the main point of your post or comment should not be about politics.
Feel free to contact the moderators if you would like clarification on the removal reason.
frogmicky@reddit
Is it safe to visit Fukushima now?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
The plant or the prefecture? Define "safe".
frogmicky@reddit
The prefecture, I'm sure the plant is a no man's land.
shikkonin@reddit
Yes, it's safe. Most of the prefecture was unaffected and it is still a quite populated area....
frogmicky@reddit
Thank you I may visit Fukushima one day.
shikkonin@reddit
Do it, you will not be disappointed. It's a beautiful region.
frogmicky@reddit
Thanks for the suggestion.
EnergyLantern@reddit
What source of information on this subject most reliable?
Is an EMP possible and able to knock out power?
Will people be dead in bunkers if there is an attack?
I'm assuming everything we know is obsolete except for what exists today which we don't know about which would be top secret and we would be dead in an attack.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
There are a boatload of resources... too many to list here. Check out https://discover.dtic.mil/ that's one of my favorites.
Yes.
There's no way for me to speculate on that.
Not necessarily. A lot of what's known about the effects of nuclear weapons is open-source and hasn't changed in the past 40 to 80 years.
edwards9524@reddit
I heard that distilling water removes the harmful portions of radioactive chemicals because they have a higher boiling point and would remain behind in the container they were boiled in, leaving only H20.
Is this accurate or are their other radioactive materials that would contaminate the water assuming clean containers.
Followup question, would most fish in lakes rivers and the ocean be contaminated and if so, for how long?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm not sure I want to speculate on your first question because it's beyond my knowledge and training and depends on the exact materials involved. Also, when it comes to a significant radiological disaster (say war for instance), there may well be worse stuff in the water that you need to worry about than fallout. For example, if a chemical plant gets nuked and leaks into a stream or river... that's a far bigger concern than the radioactive materials.
TruePrepper@reddit
Do you advise or get any reports on radiological risk? Is public attack/accident exposure risk increasing or decreasing over the past 10 years?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I do not. That's what we call "left of boom" (preventative), which I'm not involved in. My role comes into play to the "right of boom" (response).
Due-Gap1848@reddit
Is Cresson Kearny and his book Nuclear War Survival Skills generally reliable?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Yes, Cresson Kearny's book, Nuclear War Survival Skills is an excellent resource. Even today (because nuclear weapons don't function any differently now than they did when the book was written).
I don't want to get too deep into the politics of it, but yes, I would agree in part with Kearny that there are persistent narratives that have caused people to believe that survival is impossible for anyone, much less them. The main problem I have is that those attitudes make it even more difficult for me to do my job because people have been conditioned over time to believe the only place they will ever be if a nuke goes off, is at ground zero. In reality, the vast majority of the effects ranges of a nuclear detonation are survivable IF YOU TAKE PROTECTIVE ACTIONS (like taking cover).
abitdaft1776@reddit
Hi! He is infact correct that the long term effect of nuclear war due to radiation is overblown. Many many many many more people would die from starvation and lack of basic medical supplies due to the disruption in supply chains.
If you do a bit of reading on the effects of Chernobyl, Hiroshima and Nagasaki you will see that the effects of radiation exposure are grossly overestimated.
This is not to say there would be no longer term effects, but that they would be insignificant when compared to the disruption to services people depend on.
Own_Cardiologist_989@reddit
I've always been curious about is the affects that radiation would have on bacteria and other microorganisms. Whether from a nuclear attack or plant meltdown, how do the microorganisms hold up? Are they able to survive better because of their reproductive rate? Do they tend to mutate in some way to adapt to the radiation? Are they largely unaffected?
How about plants. Are there plants that are more negatively affected than others? Are there good crops to use specifically after a nuclear incident?
And food stores, is food that was exposed to radiation fine to eat after it's no longer irradiated? Can I eat my dry beans packed in my mylar bags, or are they spoiled?
And then on another note, how does radiation affect metals? I'm thinking about if I had ingots of different metals just sitting and soaking radiation, how would they react? And to that, what happens in electronics that survive an EMP? I remember in the Chernobyl HBO series that equipment would fail, but what exactly is happening to it? I'd assume the metals are corroding, but is there more to it that it's affecting more than just the conductors?
I know there's a handle of questions, so I don't expect specific answers to each. Just looking to show where I'm curious about this. Might have a other comment coming up after this one.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Radiation in general tends to "harm" more complex organisms more than simpler ones. More specifically, the cells in your body that divide more frequently (such as those in your GI tract and bone marrow) are harmed more than tissues and cells that don't.
I can't tell you specifically which plants are more or less affected than others. Same with animals. I know some breeds of dogs have been used as analogs for humans in experiments as have chimpanzees. Don't read the reports, they're heartbreaking, but sometimes, that's science.
For the most part... most animals and plants have a far greater tolerance of radiation than humans do. So the notion that a nuclear war will kill everything on the planet, is ridiculous.
Food that is exposed to radiation will not become contaminated or radioactive. In fact, there are foods that are irradiated routinely to improve their shelf lives, kill micro-organisms, etc. If radioactive material gets on or in the food, then it becomes contaminated, and if you eat it, that contamination can be transferred into your body.
As far as radiation and metals, that depends on the radiation and the material. Neutron radiation in a reactor can make some materials radioactive. Intense radiation can damage electrical insulators, semiconductors, etc. Radiation exposure can cause radiolysis of water molecules, forming hydroxyl radicals (which is part of how ionizing radiation damages your body). There's a whole field of science called radiochemistry that deals with that topic, and that's beyond my training and knowledge. I know a little about it, but not enough to teach it or really comment on it here.
abitdaft1776@reddit
Think of radiation and contamination as shit and stinky.
Contamination is shit, radiation is stink.
Your canned food would be fine to eat as long as the cans themselves had not been contaminated with fission products ( this is where the radiation is coming from. As they decay they will release radiation). As long as they were sealed and not exposed to the contaminated fallout the food will be fine.
Another commenter above asked a similar question about beer in a glass. The crystal structure of the glass will be effected by the high energy gamma radiation, distorting it's structure. This distortion traps some amount of energy (radiation). This is a similar principle in how thermo luminescent dosimeters used to measure radiation exposure by personnel work. The beer itself will not be radioactive because there is no solid structure to trap the energy.
With regards to metals, embrittlement can occur but only over long term high energy exposure. This is due to the same principle, where structural changes in the metal limit the ability of the lattice structure to move. You can accomplish the same thing by bending a thin wire repeatedly. Eventually it will become harder and harder to bend and will eventually snap.
As for electronics the answer is simply this. Those gamma waves that make up the radiation are part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like radio waves. If you noticed the words electro and magnetic then you have a clue as to why!
In this case the powerful gamma radiation will induce an electric current in the conductors and circuitry, causing an overload and blowing ESD (electrostatic sensitive components). This can be minimized by using hardened components, or faraday shield devices
JRHLowdown3@reddit
I would buy "Long term effects of nuclear weapons" by Dr. Glasstone. Very important book to have for this subject.
WadeBronson@reddit
If a nuclear warhead had a ground based detonation up wind from your location how many iodide tablets would you need to stay safe from the radiation of the fallout, until it once again becomes safe?
How long until the ground of your location down wind would be safe for cultivating fruits and vegetables?
How long until the ground water in that area would be safe to drink?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
First of all, default use of KI after a nuclear detonation is not currently recommended by any US agency that I am aware of. This is due primarily due to the fact that early fallout (the fallout that comes down in the first 24 hours) is not a significant respiratory hazard. It's coarse like sand, so provided you're in shelter (which you should be), the building you're in will prevent you from inhaling it. With a nuclear power plant release, the radioactive iodine is released in the form of gas or vapor, so within the inhalation emergency planning zone, it is possible for civilians to inhale and become internally contaminated with radioactive iodine which is why KI tablets are distributed to residents within 10 miles of a nuclear plant and if directed are to take 1 tablet every 24 hours per FDA guidelines.
Now, that said... Cresson Kearny did cover some of this in a chapter called Trans-Pacific Fallout in his book Nuclear War Survival Skills. The 'gist of the chapter was that a large exchange between China and the Soviet Union could result in enough radioactive iodine reaching the US to where KI may provide some medical benefit. For those that don't know, Potassium Iodide (KI) loads up your thyroid with stable, non-radioactive iodine so it doesn't absorb radioactive iodine. Above, I mentioned that early fallout was not a respiratory hazard because it's too large and coarse. When a nuclear weapon goes off, even near the ground, there are particulates of all sizes created. The smallest, lightest ones (that you could potentially inhale) generally rise with the fireball into the upper atmosphere and are released from there. Over the course of days and weeks, some of those will mix with lower air masses and reach ground level and could be inhaled. In fact, right now, you're inhaling fallout from previous atmospheric nuclear tests. The thing we don't know is at what point that global fallout becomes enough of a hazard to where taking KI would be beneficial.
As far as your other questions... that depends on your definition of "safe". There is virtually no way crops grown after a nuclear war or nuclear detonation could give you "radiation poisoning". What can happen however, is the elevated dose you receive from that food could increase the chances of long-term health effects like cancer. If the government is still functioning, chances are you won't have to worry about it because they'll want to impound food that could have unacceptable amounts of radioactive materials. If it's a planet of the Apes situation... I'd say don't worry about it because starvation will be a bigger threat.
Groundwater should be safe immediately (from weapon fallout) in most credible scenarios.
WadeBronson@reddit
Russia recently tested their 9M730 Burevestnik delivery system again, which is based on tech that has been around for several decades but not pursued by other countries for several reasons.
It is being reported in the media that this delivery system is slow, and would likely be easily taken out by missile defense systems, yet none of them mention the solid fuel component of this weapon.
Without violating any of the topics you can’t address, do you think the media is overlooking this component of the 9M730 when they write it off as a waste of Russian resources?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I'm not as versed in "left of boom" topics like that, so I'd rather not speculate on it. Personally I don't think it, or any of the other new Russian weapons (like Poseidon), radically change the situation for civilians. Whether a warhead is delivered by an ICBM or the Burevestnik doesn't really change the resulting weapon effects.
shootnjohn@reddit
What is your lifetime dose? (REM/mrem)
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
I can only estimate this as being somewhere in the 30 rem range? I'm not a nuclear worker, so I'm not exposed to much beyond that what every other member of the public gets exposed to. I have attended trainings that use real radioactive sources, but the doses for those activities usually only result in doses of tenths of a millirem.
shootnjohn@reddit
I was nuclear for over twenty years and recorded dose is around 5 rem. If you were never a nuke your dose is surely much lower.
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
You didn't specify occupational only, so I included my estimated dose due to natural and manmade background, and some CTs, over my lifetime. Occupationally, I doubt it's even 100 millirem total. I'm classified as an emergency responder, not a radiation worker, so I'm not part of a dosimetry program. When I check my PRDs after tours, trainings, etc that involve live sources or areas above background, they usually read in the hundred(s) of microrem area.
Adorable-Unit2562@reddit
What’s one common radioactive thing you avoid? (EG: I don’t use propane lanterns because the mesh screen is radioactive)
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
Radon. My home had a "radon problem" that has since been addressed. That's the only thing I can think of.
PlanetExcellent@reddit
After a nuclear explosion, how long do we need to stay in shelter until fallout has reduced to a safe level to go outside (and travel by car for example).
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
FEMA generally recommends sheltering for at least 12-24 hours. However, that's a very vague recommendation primarily meant for small-yield terrorist weapons. When you get to peer-state weapon yields and varied weapon employment (air burst vs surface burst), it's harder to make a broad statement when you know most people have no way to measure radiation.
For full-on nuclear war, my recommendation if you don't have instrumentation, would be to shelter as long as you can, up to two weeks before leaving shelter. The caveat is that you need to be conscious of other pressures on your survival. If you won't have enough water to make it two weeks, then don't shelter for two weeks. If something else forces you out of shelter, such as fire, structural instability, etc... don't stay there and die. Find your next-best available shelter and resume sheltering.
There's a rule-of-thumb called the 7-10 Rule of Thumb that helps estimate the decay of nuclear weapon fallout. It states that for every 7-fold passage in time, the intensity of the radiation decreases by a factor of 10. As a simplified example, if you measure the radiation levels at 1 hour and it's 100 rad/hour and 7 hours passes, it should be 10 rad/hour outside. After 7x7 (49 hours) it should be 1 rad/hour. After two weeks (343 hours), it should be .1 rad/hour.
So the next logical question is, if I have instrumentation, how low is "safe enough" to leave shelter... and I don't know if I have time to get into that here.
joelnicity@reddit
From what I have learned, it’s been to stay in a cryo chamber for about 500 years
JRHLowdown3@reddit
Need a calibrated meter to know that for sure. However, ASSuming a use them all or lose them type scenario with most everything used in a short period of time, without a meter a good rule of thumb would be to plan for at least 2 weeks in your shelter. Without a meter I'd play it safe and stay a little longer. You need a meter...
shootnjohn@reddit
That depends on how far away you are, wind direction, and type of device. Alpha and beta can be defeated with basic clothing and masks. Gammas pass right on through.
Jeresil@reddit
I made a “fallout water filter” which consists of the following: 3 five gallon food grade buckets stacked as follows- Top: (layers from bottom up)- cheese cloth, charcoal, sand, small gravel, charcoal, large gravel, fresh earth. Drains to middle. Middle: two Berkey style water filters. Drains to bottom. Bottom: tapped with spigot at the bottom for drinking water.
Did I completely waste my time?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
It depends. Your filter will work well for gross particulate filtration and filtering out the actual grains of fallout. However, fallout is composed of soil (in the case of ground bursts) fused with a cocktail of different elements, some of which are soluble in water. So some of that radioactive material will dissolve out into the water and may not be effectively captured by the media you've described above. HOWEVER, in an SEVERE emergency situation, what you're describing is likely "good enough" to reduce contamination to the point of where it's only increasing your long-term cancer risk.
Dehydration will generally kill you faster than radiation, so if you need water to survive, don't sweat radiological contamination. Even if you couldn't filter the water, it is unlikely you would experience acute radiation syndrome by drinking fallout contaminated water. The insinuation that you can is largely Hollywood invention. The biggest threat fallout poses to you is the external exposure hazard it presents. If the water is so contaminated that you'll get acute radiation syndrome by drinking it... you're already accumulating a fatal dose due to external radiation exposure (exposure to the gamma radiation emitted by fallout outside your body).
Read-it005@reddit
Dumb question perhaps but do you have to protect your food and water other than a good plastic box with a lid to prevent contamination?
Does a life straw help as a "better than nothing" filter?
What would be the other measures you'd take?
Jeresil@reddit
Thanks! If anything, I at least have an extra 5 gallons of clean water storage.
Autobotnate@reddit
What is a dirty bomb and are all dirty bombs the same?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
A dirty bomb is just another term for an explosive radiological dispersal device (RDD). Explosive RDDs use conventional explosives to disperse a radioactive material. They are fundamentally different from nuclear detonations in that the fallout from a nuclear detonation consists of freshly-generated fission byproducts, which are usually far more radioactive than the materials used in dirty bombs.
Are they all the same? No, but they can be categorized into 3 basic "flavors". BBs (or ballistic fragmentation), Smoke, and "combination".
When you take a solid metal material, like a rod of Cobalt 60 and pair it with an explosive, it will fragment into ballistic shrapnel. There's very little long-distance fallout or dust from an RDD like this. On the other hand, materials like Cs-137 are in salt or powder form and can be spread like a smoke in a detonation. Obviously the third category covers materials or combinations of materials that do both. Even with the smoke and combination flavors, the materials are usually only a significant respiratory concern for about the first 20 minutes before the material is dispersed by winds.
The "good" thing about RDDs is they typically can't produce large areas of lethal fallout the way a nuclear detonation can. They're mostly about generating fear or economic damage.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
OP, if I may, a dirty bomb is a bomb that is meant to scatter radiological material. One of the big fears that people had after 9/11 was the collection and use of radiological sources, lumping them all up, and strapping them to a crude explosive and detonating it in a city. The spread of the radiological sources would not cause immediate life/limb casualties, but would be more like an "area denial" weapon. The radiological sources could include things like the sources from smoke detectors, Emergency Exit signs, things like that.
Many cities and states have radiation detection equipment along their roadways sensitive enough to pick up when sources pass by. Not an issue for a regular consumer bringing home a smoke detector from Walmart, though. Takes a bit more than that to set off warning flags.
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
Woah, TIL that those red exit signs contain radioactive tritium to stay lit without power. I never questioned those, I assumed it was battery like other backup lights.
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/tritium-exit-signs
shootnjohn@reddit
Well said.
mediocre_remnants@reddit
What did you have for breakfast this morning?
HazMatsMan@reddit (OP)
4 slices of refrigerated, leftover bacon is all I've had so far for breakfast.
shootnjohn@reddit
Can’t say what he had for breakfast, but I had my usual. By the way, don’t forget to get out and vote. If you don’t vote, don’t complain.
RonJohn223@reddit
I think the radiation got him
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