To be fair though a bunch of them was corrected by the top comments, well except for the r/Radeon sub reddit which is currently fully on force with their gaslighting their own community by telling them that "It is totally normal and expected!" "Nvidia does the same as well!" etc etc.
You'd think, but then you have r/hardware users praising AMD for not having driver issues anymore (usually referencing 1-2 gen old hardware with most the issues smoothed out) pretending r/AMDHelp doesn't exist with a shit ton of users trying to figure out the correct driver versions to use for specific games through the power of divination or constantly warning people not to update drivers.
I may be slightly salty after I bought a 7900 XT and the consensus seemed to be that driver issues are a thing of the past (apparently I missed the caveat that it was the case on the 5000 series and maybe 6000), till like 7/10 of the DX12 games I tried were crashing on the day I got the GPU and I went diving through the help forums looking for good drivers.
Oh well seems like NVIDIA aint doing so good these days either.
Tbf 7/10 seems extremely high and would point towards a faulty card, I had an rdna2 card and it was a mostly smooth experience in terms of gaming (it had annoyances in terms of sleep mode not working properly and some YouTube playback problems)
Technically new arch code could potentially break functionality for older cards and removing old code could make developing new arch code easier and faster but even so, do you actually expect them to keep both branches up to date? I'm pretty sure I remember someone complaining that exactly happening before. And they aren't even that old.
Short term they'll probably keep both relatively up-to-date to save face but long term when no one is looking they'll start to make the "maintenance" branch less of a priority.
This is bad timing. After it has been proven that 6000 series cards can run FSR 4, cutting off customers from future updates and the newest software comes across as pure greed.
This is a serious violation of trust. Why should we buy Radeon ever again?
They need to make this right and the sooner the better.
AMD would need to offer a major discount on their GPUs compared to Nvidia this point for me to even consider buying. I'm currently using a 4070 Ti Super and will probably look at upgrading this next gen in \~2027.
Normally I'd be very open to considering UDNA for my upgrade, especially if they match Nvidia features at a cheaper price, but now that's gonna be an uphill battle for them convincing myself and many others to even give them the time of day. Even though we know very little about next gen GPUs atm I can say with like 90% certainty my next upgrade is probably RTX 60 and not UDNA. Say what you will about Nvidia but they continue to maintain very solid support for their gaming GPUs across many generations.
I don't really think that it even matters at this stage.
When AMD tried to price their products cheaply with plenty amounts of VRAM, people still bought Nvidia. When AMD had the faster GPU, people still bought Nvidia. Radeon is honestly a lost cause.
Thats is incorrect, AMD know the trick back in Zen 1 Zen 2 era, they offer VERY massive performance/price over Intel. Thats how they able to get the market shift to AMD ryzen.
Yeah I'm convinced during RDNA1 and 2 AMD honestly thought things like ML based upscaling and RT were gimmicks that they didn't need to take seriously. Boy were they wrong.
Not even half right. GN and others actively worked against promoting these features.
I'll be the tinfoil hatter and state AMD took GN and their counterparts opinions as those of the market and now are "confused" just like I'm sure YouTubers were that their market pressures didn't do jack shit to push AMD dGPU into the lead.
No one should be confused. AMD dGPU has been running the same since they dissolved ATI. Ie, like Temu Nvidia - just the greed none of the tech.
AMD honestly thought things like ML based upscaling and RT were gimmicks that they didn't need to take seriously.
and that's actually a charitable way to look at it.
My opinion is harsher : It wasn't part of what they needed to make good on the Sony/Microsoft contracts, and they're weren't going to make it on their own dime.
Now they're building the next round of PS/Xbox hardware on Sony/MS's money, so they build the features.
Because AMD only makes major architectural evolutions when Sony and Microsoft pay for it, that's the "dark side" of "fine wine".
Which is very dumb but shows the brilliance of Nvidia markering. Ray traying is pure meme and dlss completly unnecessary. Only Nvidia feature has is cuda.
But Pre-RTX, that was also the same case. Historically through Radeon's over decade of sales, the same shit always happen. I'll be surprised if AMD doesn't gut the gaming division in 5-10 years lol.
NVIDIA is just better! I remember getting AMD „advantage“ laptop thinking it would be better then getting AMD GPU in my desktop just to realise that they could not even get damn adrenaline software to work! Missing software, feature, not updating, recording option comes and goes…. They gave up on GPUs! On the other hand Nvidia simply works! Basically same situation like amd and intel now. I just prefer amd cpus and how they work.
AMD/ATI had plenty of market share (even ahead of Nvidia at points) until they fell behind on features, both hardware and software.
They floated at a fairly healthy amount until 900 invalidated basically their whole lineup and then they essentially didn't compete with the (rather amazing) 1000 series release either. At that point they'd already plummeted down in market share. Say what you want of RTX 2000 but it was pushing new tech at a point when AMD was still releasing RX 500 variants, and even with the costs the RTX 2060 was a better price/performance than what AMD had at the time. If you wanted performance (and even budget at the time) Nvidia was literally the only option, and this is coming from someone that owned both a RX 480 and a Vega 64.
After that they needed to dig out of a hole and what they offered was basically just "more VRAM" at a complete lack of any of the features or tech Nvidia was pumping out.
How Radeon behaves for their discrete GPUs feels like they just kind of gave up and that it only exists because custom solutions like the PS5/Xbox/Steam Deck are profitable which also translates to Discrete GPUs.
Because the alternative isn't any better. Who cares how long the GPU is supported if it doesn't have enough VRAM to play new games after a few years like my 3070? Planned hardware obsolescence or support ending too soon, either way gamers are getting screwed in today's GPU market.
You are right, but at the same time this is two different things
GPUs with 8GB are indeed hardware obsolescence, but you upfront know what you buy - you can wait a bit to see benchmarks, or decide on previous cases.
Cutting GPU support short is after the fact - you already brought you GPU, you atleast expect some form of longterm support. I'm not familiar, but I guess Neither AMD or Nvidia disclose how many years of support you will get (like Phone manufacturers which says 3 years of updates, 5 years of security).
The whole can of worms is that AMD is vague intentionally by saying "by market demand" and at the same time freshly releases devices with the architecture they intend to go Maintain Mode (except its only dGPUs)
I can absolutely see once UDNA drops, AMD to leave RDNA3 as well as it doesn't support AI.
RDNA3 does support AI. It just doesn't have dedicated hardware like tensor cores, the shader units support WMMA, which can be used to run most AI models.
I bought amd this time since it was cheaper and nvidia was being way too greedy. Also I didn't expect them to ditch a perfectly capable architecture in just 3 years.
I bought Nvidia exclusively for over a decade. The 3070 will be the last GPU of theirs I will buy, that is the worst I have ever been burned by a piece of hardware. So it's between AMD and Intel for me from now on, and Intel just haven't made a high enough performance product for me to consider them. Hopefully they up their game or China start dropping some good GPUs.
AMD do not even "know" their place in CPU either. It is like they make no effort push aggressively to eat intel market share after sooo many years, AMD CPU seems to perfectly happy NOT to have more market share than Intel In CPU market lol.
If Nvidia suddenly fallen to below 50% market share in dGPU, you can bet they will fight hard to get back to market dominance. Thats Jensen style we talking.
If you look at the high margins market share of servers and Amd is limited by number of wafers. Normal consumer and especially low margin ultra high volume is just not something they are about or care for compared to Intel who own the fabs that make the chips and need to keep those fabs churning out stuff, especially old fabs and then you get cheap high volume consumer chips.
It's truly mind boggling. They are the 2nd player in a very lucrative market right now, but they just keep cheaping out in the worst ways. I mean, why? Do they need more developers to continue support and they don't think it's worth it?
Also why were they so slow with rocm support as well?
I love Lisa for turning around their CPUs, but the GPU releases have been tumultuous...
AMD always been like this for GPU departments... i am not sure why people still giving them money just because of the on-paper performance, nvidia however worse in price-performance, their drivers always been way way way ahead of AMD.
AMD has been neglecting Radeon even it was one of their breadwinner in the bulldozer days. That and consoles are another drop in the bucket yet AMD seems to bend over for Sony and Microsoft's design direction.
The deal with Sony for PS6 is considered to be at least $30 billion and a lot of that money comes upfront. That's enough for R&D for a gen or 2 of GPUs.
Let me put in that way. Datacenter GPUs > workstation GPUs > APUs for consoles > mainstream PC market
Datacenter and workstation GPUs offer best margins. APUs for consoles offer simplicity in a sense that you are going to deliver and support only two APU designs per generation (6-8 years) per customer.
It's truly mind boggling. They are the 2nd player in a very lucrative market right now, but they just keep cheaping out in the worst ways. I mean, why? Do they need more developers to continue support and they don't think it's worth it?
AMD right now is a SOC for the gaming market. They stopped giving a shit after getting big contracts from Sony and Microsoft.
This is a serious violation of trust. Why should we buy Radeon ever again?
This is probably going to be a downvoted hot take, but AMD and Nvidia really don't care about enthusiast support.
We are such a small subset of their revenue compared to AI, enterprise, prebuilts, and game consoles. We barely move the needle, nor do our recommendations.
Obviously they would prefer to have happy enthusiasts so you're going to see marketing push to smooth things over but make no mistake, it won't alter the business decisions they make about long-term support, it will only change the messaging.
They don't care about us, and the only power we have is to not care about them as a brand, only evaluating purchases product-to-product.
Intel seems to be the only one who actually *needs* positive sentiment to grow in market share right now. But we've seen them pull the same tricks when they have a stronger market position in other product segments so the same advice applies.
To be fair it ran an inefficient and inferior version that may not have provided performance gains in practice (especially in regard to the outputted image quality). It didn't really run it properly. I can see why it was scrapped, they probably considered using it but canceled it because it didn't meet their standards.
AMD must position themselves with the most positive consumer sentiment they can manage to counteract the frankly rabid and overwhelming sentiment Nvidia has managed to generate for themselves. AMD must lean into the value proposition, because Nvidia can both outproduce them and eat essentially arbitrary amounts of loss-leader pricing cuts in the gaming market if they really need to in order to aggressively maintain market share.
Next-gen performance uplifts are in many ways essentially given, and they will only matter to whoever can afford to buy it. The kind of person who can afford to buy a new AMD card can just as easily buy a competitively-priced Nvidia card, and can be easily swayed by sentiment when performance per dollar is comparable.
They're cutting the trust in their value proposition in order to save a little bit of money so they can redirect it to next-gen products whose overall sentimental value is "this still isn't as good as their competitor".
The answer to this question actually doesn't change with this. You would presumably buy Radeon cards, if one cares for the morals and ethics of the situation, because they're the lesser evil.
I'm a budget hobbyist. I usually don't buy the latest games and my 6800xt is the most powerful card my 5600x CPU can handle before creating a bottleneck.
I'm not going to upgrade my GPU until I have replaced most of the parts in my rig.
But I will remember that Radeon isn't going to give me long term support and will consider my options as someone who has been burned twice in a row by Radeon.
You couldn't even buy AMD cards in my city (non-US) lol. It's constantly out of stock and when I come to the physical store, the employees there seems gobsmacked that the retailer they work at even carry AMD cards.
It's always fun to find out things we've had forever are actually magical and we just didn't know better. Thanks AMD for pointing out awesome end of driver support really is.
You'd think that AMD would have learned from Ryzen how they need to win minds to win marketshare, but they keep screwing up their GPU department time and time again. Nvidia minus $50 doesn't cut it, even if their raster performance per dollar is a bit better sometimes. Officially backporting RDNA 4 to the 6000 series could have been a good win for AMD, instead they shoot themselves in the foot like this.
You mean the same Ryzen where they run the most bullshit and consumer misleading naming schemes that put even intel to shame as they rebadge generations old mobile CPUs to look like newer ones?
Oh well I guess its the consumers fault for not carrying around the naming wheel when going shopping.
Side note: I was deciding between a 9060xt and a 9070 to replace my 2080ti before this news. Now I'm deciding between a 5070 and waiting for a B770. I didn't trust AMD/RTG not to screw me over.
I was looking yesterday and choosing between a 5070ti and a 9070xt. The 9070xt is about 50 bucks cheaper, but that's just not worth it for me. 50 bucks to have better Ray tracing and support seems like a no-brainer
This doesn't sound as a 'revert' per se, which is quite terrible, because it tells me FSR4 will not be released on RDNA2 whatsoever, although it could technically run it, but on the other hand, how many times do people need to realize AMD simply isn't up to par with nVIDIA when it comes to driver support and forward architecture thinking?
Turing (2018) has dedicated RT/Tensor cores specifically designed for RT/DLSS, whereas RDNA3 (2022 - 4 YEARS LATER) doesn't, and with that, I think I said it all.
In fact, I'm already sure RDNA 3 and even 4 will have the same faith, as UDNA/RDNA 5 will be a totally different architecture - which, by the way, will be literally a copy of Turing from a core perspective, which was released, once again, in 2018 -- 'Radiance Cores' are the ray-tracing cores, and 'Neural Arrays' are the tensor cores - obviously, much more powerful than Turing's, but you get the point - AMD is about 9 years behind nVIDIA in terms of architecture philosophy at this point.
So do not act surprised that 5700 XT didn't have more value compared to 2070S at 100$ more as some of people thought, there's a reason "nVIDIA -50$" doesn't work anymore, those 50$ will bite you in your ass next time and people have woken up.
Oh come on .. not the first time . It’s not due to fsr4 discovery .. that’s old and policy about generation support .. typical graphics card generation is supported by amd - 3-4 years of full support . Then 3 years of maintenance . And product become legacy
Legendary rx480- 4 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
Legendary RX580 3 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
Vega - 3 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
How old rdna2 ? 3 years ? Guess what comes next ? Why it become a shocking news?
You can predict when rdna3 will become obsolete . Or when Udna become history .. convenient.. for amd
Somewhere laughing Ngreedia . But that’s a different story ..
Legacy in terms of amd - when active support and maintenance mode passed .
Maintenance- they decide base version where they will fix bugs . But no features or extra support
Legacy means - no update even for maintenance version . So even if bug will be discovered after hitting legacy - it will not be fixed . Sometimes they does not bother with bug fixing even for maintenance version releases .. I still remover final release of HD5000 family driver for windows 10 .. DXVA not worked there .. was it fixed ? Nope
Imagine pain of rx580 owners ..only 3 years of support . Officially their production ended in 2019 . But due to mining crisis production was restored in 2020 .
And that’s AFTER card hited maintenance status
They stopped resurrected manufacturing only in 2022 .
Where are you getting this information? I haven't been able to find a support page from AMD clearly outlining which products are supported, in maintenance, or in legacy.
Polaris and Vega are still getting maintenance updates, as recently as August:
https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/release-notes/RN-RAD-WIN-25-8-1-POLARIS-VEGA.html
They even get game fixes, still, as recently as May:
https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/release-notes/RN-RAD-WIN-25-5-1-POLARIS-VEGA.html
They were only put on a separate driver branch in late 2023, six years after Vega launched in 2017 and seven years after Polaris launched in 2016. Doesn't seem like they're in legacy status just yet.
Look on DRIVER VERSION . Not package version or release date. Inside those update packs you mentioned - 2023 driver .. which is last version before those cards hited EOL . Those fixes intended for additional software . Not the driver itself
Problem is Nvidia GPUs are generally more reliable and versatile than AMD despite shit like Fermi house fires, wood screws memes and the shitty 12v connector.
We didn't know how good we had it in the Radeon HD 4000 days, now AMD just shows up for its participation trophy.
People shouldn't care about these game optimizations that nobody (without internal access) can really quantify.
What we can quantify is Vulkan/D3D12 feature support. Features that do not require new hardware. And there, Vega and older have no received anything since they were moved to the "maintenance" branch. And the recent driver release only adds VK_KHR_shader_untyped_pointers for RDNA3+, despite this being a quality of life extension that everyone can support.
This means either graphics programmers have to plan around the RNDA2 drivers for the next 3 years and not require anything new, or they only support RDNA3+. Both are bad, and this is only caused by AMD wanting to save money in the wrong place.
Far as I know "maintenance mode" is used to specifically precludes "new feature updates". Since AMD is trying to claim both simultaneously apply, I think AMD's GPU or marketing division has its head so far up its own rear end that they've achieved ouroboros status.
Wander715@reddit
But reddit told me that AMD cleared up everything with their response and it was all one big misunderstanding!
ShadowRomeo@reddit
To be fair though a bunch of them was corrected by the top comments, well except for the r/Radeon sub reddit which is currently fully on force with their gaslighting their own community by telling them that "It is totally normal and expected!" "Nvidia does the same as well!" etc etc.
MiloIsTheBest@reddit
Even the AMD subreddit wasn't buying it. People who tried to fluff this statement were pretty heavily smacked down for it.
puffz0r@reddit
AMD sub has lots of people that rag on AMD, AMD customers know firsthand how ghetto it is sometimes to run AMD hardware
SoilMassive6850@reddit
You'd think, but then you have r/hardware users praising AMD for not having driver issues anymore (usually referencing 1-2 gen old hardware with most the issues smoothed out) pretending r/AMDHelp doesn't exist with a shit ton of users trying to figure out the correct driver versions to use for specific games through the power of divination or constantly warning people not to update drivers.
I may be slightly salty after I bought a 7900 XT and the consensus seemed to be that driver issues are a thing of the past (apparently I missed the caveat that it was the case on the 5000 series and maybe 6000), till like 7/10 of the DX12 games I tried were crashing on the day I got the GPU and I went diving through the help forums looking for good drivers.
Oh well seems like NVIDIA aint doing so good these days either.
puffz0r@reddit
Tbf 7/10 seems extremely high and would point towards a faulty card, I had an rdna2 card and it was a mostly smooth experience in terms of gaming (it had annoyances in terms of sleep mode not working properly and some YouTube playback problems)
BlueGoliath@reddit
Reddit says a lot of stupid things.
Technically new arch code could potentially break functionality for older cards and removing old code could make developing new arch code easier and faster but even so, do you actually expect them to keep both branches up to date? I'm pretty sure I remember someone complaining that exactly happening before. And they aren't even that old.
Short term they'll probably keep both relatively up-to-date to save face but long term when no one is looking they'll start to make the "maintenance" branch less of a priority.
wyn10@reddit
You're confused
HatchetHand@reddit
This is bad timing. After it has been proven that 6000 series cards can run FSR 4, cutting off customers from future updates and the newest software comes across as pure greed.
This is a serious violation of trust. Why should we buy Radeon ever again?
They need to make this right and the sooner the better.
Wander715@reddit
AMD would need to offer a major discount on their GPUs compared to Nvidia this point for me to even consider buying. I'm currently using a 4070 Ti Super and will probably look at upgrading this next gen in \~2027.
Normally I'd be very open to considering UDNA for my upgrade, especially if they match Nvidia features at a cheaper price, but now that's gonna be an uphill battle for them convincing myself and many others to even give them the time of day. Even though we know very little about next gen GPUs atm I can say with like 90% certainty my next upgrade is probably RTX 60 and not UDNA. Say what you will about Nvidia but they continue to maintain very solid support for their gaming GPUs across many generations.
LimLovesDonuts@reddit
I don't really think that it even matters at this stage.
When AMD tried to price their products cheaply with plenty amounts of VRAM, people still bought Nvidia. When AMD had the faster GPU, people still bought Nvidia. Radeon is honestly a lost cause.
hackenclaw@reddit
Thats is incorrect, AMD know the trick back in Zen 1 Zen 2 era, they offer VERY massive performance/price over Intel. Thats how they able to get the market shift to AMD ryzen.
Prasiatko@reddit
I mean Intel stagnating was also a huge part of that. NVIDIA isn't showing any signs of having similar problems that Intel had.
nukleabomb@reddit
They were behind in features despite having more vram. People value features a lot more than AMD thought
Wander715@reddit
Yeah I'm convinced during RDNA1 and 2 AMD honestly thought things like ML based upscaling and RT were gimmicks that they didn't need to take seriously. Boy were they wrong.
Darrelc@reddit
Half right
railven@reddit
Not even half right. GN and others actively worked against promoting these features.
I'll be the tinfoil hatter and state AMD took GN and their counterparts opinions as those of the market and now are "confused" just like I'm sure YouTubers were that their market pressures didn't do jack shit to push AMD dGPU into the lead.
No one should be confused. AMD dGPU has been running the same since they dissolved ATI. Ie, like Temu Nvidia - just the greed none of the tech.
Darrelc@reddit
I mean it's a bit rich to argue greed when you're talking about nvidia's competitor, but yes I remember the ATI days.
Subjective, but personally I definitely don't give a toss about RT / fake frames even if the unwashed masses clearly like 'em
absolutelynotarepost@reddit
It doesn't matter if YOU care about RTX or upscaling.
DEVELOPERS are all in on that technology which means you can either play indie games or get a card that utilizes those technologies.
I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
SomniumOv@reddit
and that's actually a charitable way to look at it.
My opinion is harsher : It wasn't part of what they needed to make good on the Sony/Microsoft contracts, and they're weren't going to make it on their own dime.
Now they're building the next round of PS/Xbox hardware on Sony/MS's money, so they build the features.
Because AMD only makes major architectural evolutions when Sony and Microsoft pay for it, that's the "dark side" of "fine wine".
hal64@reddit
Which is very dumb but shows the brilliance of Nvidia markering. Ray traying is pure meme and dlss completly unnecessary. Only Nvidia feature has is cuda.
LimLovesDonuts@reddit
For stuff like RTX, I 100% agree.
But Pre-RTX, that was also the same case. Historically through Radeon's over decade of sales, the same shit always happen. I'll be surprised if AMD doesn't gut the gaming division in 5-10 years lol.
HatchetHand@reddit
They will be heavily present in gaming, but who knows about discrete GPUs.
Playstations and Steam Decks aren't going anywhere.
CorValidum@reddit
NVIDIA is just better! I remember getting AMD „advantage“ laptop thinking it would be better then getting AMD GPU in my desktop just to realise that they could not even get damn adrenaline software to work! Missing software, feature, not updating, recording option comes and goes…. They gave up on GPUs! On the other hand Nvidia simply works! Basically same situation like amd and intel now. I just prefer amd cpus and how they work.
Sleepyjo2@reddit
AMD/ATI had plenty of market share (even ahead of Nvidia at points) until they fell behind on features, both hardware and software.
They floated at a fairly healthy amount until 900 invalidated basically their whole lineup and then they essentially didn't compete with the (rather amazing) 1000 series release either. At that point they'd already plummeted down in market share. Say what you want of RTX 2000 but it was pushing new tech at a point when AMD was still releasing RX 500 variants, and even with the costs the RTX 2060 was a better price/performance than what AMD had at the time. If you wanted performance (and even budget at the time) Nvidia was literally the only option, and this is coming from someone that owned both a RX 480 and a Vega 64.
After that they needed to dig out of a hole and what they offered was basically just "more VRAM" at a complete lack of any of the features or tech Nvidia was pumping out.
LimLovesDonuts@reddit
And kind of why it's a lost cause.
How Radeon behaves for their discrete GPUs feels like they just kind of gave up and that it only exists because custom solutions like the PS5/Xbox/Steam Deck are profitable which also translates to Discrete GPUs.
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
Because the alternative isn't any better. Who cares how long the GPU is supported if it doesn't have enough VRAM to play new games after a few years like my 3070? Planned hardware obsolescence or support ending too soon, either way gamers are getting screwed in today's GPU market.
StickiStickman@reddit
Man people on this sub are insane.
No, it can play everything fine. You're just being insufferable.
absolutelynotarepost@reddit
Because they deserve to play on Ultra, nevermind what Ultra actually means.
They want to render 4k textures on their 1080 monitor God damn it.
NGGKroze@reddit
You are right, but at the same time this is two different things
GPUs with 8GB are indeed hardware obsolescence, but you upfront know what you buy - you can wait a bit to see benchmarks, or decide on previous cases.
Cutting GPU support short is after the fact - you already brought you GPU, you atleast expect some form of longterm support. I'm not familiar, but I guess Neither AMD or Nvidia disclose how many years of support you will get (like Phone manufacturers which says 3 years of updates, 5 years of security).
The whole can of worms is that AMD is vague intentionally by saying "by market demand" and at the same time freshly releases devices with the architecture they intend to go Maintain Mode (except its only dGPUs)
I can absolutely see once UDNA drops, AMD to leave RDNA3 as well as it doesn't support AI.
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
RDNA3 does support AI. It just doesn't have dedicated hardware like tensor cores, the shader units support WMMA, which can be used to run most AI models.
JonWood007@reddit
I bought amd this time since it was cheaper and nvidia was being way too greedy. Also I didn't expect them to ditch a perfectly capable architecture in just 3 years.
Acrobatic_Fee_6974@reddit
I bought Nvidia exclusively for over a decade. The 3070 will be the last GPU of theirs I will buy, that is the worst I have ever been burned by a piece of hardware. So it's between AMD and Intel for me from now on, and Intel just haven't made a high enough performance product for me to consider them. Hopefully they up their game or China start dropping some good GPUs.
hackenclaw@reddit
AMD do not even "know" their place in CPU either. It is like they make no effort push aggressively to eat intel market share after sooo many years, AMD CPU seems to perfectly happy NOT to have more market share than Intel In CPU market lol.
If Nvidia suddenly fallen to below 50% market share in dGPU, you can bet they will fight hard to get back to market dominance. Thats Jensen style we talking.
jedijackattack1@reddit
If you look at the high margins market share of servers and Amd is limited by number of wafers. Normal consumer and especially low margin ultra high volume is just not something they are about or care for compared to Intel who own the fabs that make the chips and need to keep those fabs churning out stuff, especially old fabs and then you get cheap high volume consumer chips.
iBoMbY@reddit
Because NVidia is still a lot worse?
dorting@reddit
The leaked version use INT8 instruction. So they are not running the same thing, also worse performance.
wichwigga@reddit
It's truly mind boggling. They are the 2nd player in a very lucrative market right now, but they just keep cheaping out in the worst ways. I mean, why? Do they need more developers to continue support and they don't think it's worth it?
Also why were they so slow with rocm support as well?
I love Lisa for turning around their CPUs, but the GPU releases have been tumultuous...
megablue@reddit
AMD always been like this for GPU departments... i am not sure why people still giving them money just because of the on-paper performance, nvidia however worse in price-performance, their drivers always been way way way ahead of AMD.
greasyee@reddit
Gaming GPUs are a tiny drop in the bucket of their current and future GPU revenue, they're not "the highest value commodity today."
hackenclaw@reddit
I guess AMD is fighting to make Radeon dGPU down to 4% market share (from 6%).
4% market share in consumer dGPU market in 2-3years time guys....they really want to kill Radeon themselves.
Vb_33@reddit
AMD has been neglecting Radeon even it was one of their breadwinner in the bulldozer days. That and consoles are another drop in the bucket yet AMD seems to bend over for Sony and Microsoft's design direction.
kingwhocares@reddit
The deal with Sony for PS6 is considered to be at least $30 billion and a lot of that money comes upfront. That's enough for R&D for a gen or 2 of GPUs.
Cheerful_Champion@reddit
Let me put in that way. Datacenter GPUs > workstation GPUs > APUs for consoles > mainstream PC market
Datacenter and workstation GPUs offer best margins. APUs for consoles offer simplicity in a sense that you are going to deliver and support only two APU designs per generation (6-8 years) per customer.
kingwhocares@reddit
AMD right now is a SOC for the gaming market. They stopped giving a shit after getting big contracts from Sony and Microsoft.
mycall@reddit
Still waiting for GFX1150 support.
pmjm@reddit
This is probably going to be a downvoted hot take, but AMD and Nvidia really don't care about enthusiast support.
We are such a small subset of their revenue compared to AI, enterprise, prebuilts, and game consoles. We barely move the needle, nor do our recommendations.
Obviously they would prefer to have happy enthusiasts so you're going to see marketing push to smooth things over but make no mistake, it won't alter the business decisions they make about long-term support, it will only change the messaging.
They don't care about us, and the only power we have is to not care about them as a brand, only evaluating purchases product-to-product.
Intel seems to be the only one who actually *needs* positive sentiment to grow in market share right now. But we've seen them pull the same tricks when they have a stronger market position in other product segments so the same advice applies.
JonWood007@reddit
To be fair it ran an inefficient and inferior version that may not have provided performance gains in practice (especially in regard to the outputted image quality). It didn't really run it properly. I can see why it was scrapped, they probably considered using it but canceled it because it didn't meet their standards.
Bexexexe@reddit
AMD must position themselves with the most positive consumer sentiment they can manage to counteract the frankly rabid and overwhelming sentiment Nvidia has managed to generate for themselves. AMD must lean into the value proposition, because Nvidia can both outproduce them and eat essentially arbitrary amounts of loss-leader pricing cuts in the gaming market if they really need to in order to aggressively maintain market share.
Next-gen performance uplifts are in many ways essentially given, and they will only matter to whoever can afford to buy it. The kind of person who can afford to buy a new AMD card can just as easily buy a competitively-priced Nvidia card, and can be easily swayed by sentiment when performance per dollar is comparable.
They're cutting the trust in their value proposition in order to save a little bit of money so they can redirect it to next-gen products whose overall sentimental value is "this still isn't as good as their competitor".
max1001@reddit
It's not timing. It's how you get ppl to buy new cards.
HatchetHand@reddit
I'm not buying anything for a few years.
Lost my appetite.
Nerwesta@reddit
By destroying your brand reputation even further, perhaps. I'm pretty sure Nvidia will happily welcome those people.
Whirblewind@reddit
The answer to this question actually doesn't change with this. You would presumably buy Radeon cards, if one cares for the morals and ethics of the situation, because they're the lesser evil.
HatchetHand@reddit
I'm a budget hobbyist. I usually don't buy the latest games and my 6800xt is the most powerful card my 5600x CPU can handle before creating a bottleneck.
I'm not going to upgrade my GPU until I have replaced most of the parts in my rig.
But I will remember that Radeon isn't going to give me long term support and will consider my options as someone who has been burned twice in a row by Radeon.
Least_Light2558@reddit
You couldn't even buy AMD cards in my city (non-US) lol. It's constantly out of stock and when I come to the physical store, the employees there seems gobsmacked that the retailer they work at even carry AMD cards.
BleaaelBa@reddit
who was buying Radeon again ?
hojnikb@reddit
As a consumer i'm also confused, so i'll buy that green thing instead.
Dark_ShadowMD@reddit
Hopefully my wallet is not confused. It glows green...
noiserr@reddit
Nvidia couldn't fix the burning cables in 4 years.
ClerkProfessional803@reddit
It's always fun to find out things we've had forever are actually magical and we just didn't know better. Thanks AMD for pointing out awesome end of driver support really is.
Spearmint9@reddit
Can you post this in r/Amd as well and show us the outcome?
x3nics@reddit
Why are you pretending it won't be received exactly the same way? The HUB thread is posted on there and no one is defending them.
spredditer@reddit (OP)
You can if you want!
jenny_905@reddit
YouTubers trying to row back their recommendations I see.
nd4spd1919@reddit
You'd think that AMD would have learned from Ryzen how they need to win minds to win marketshare, but they keep screwing up their GPU department time and time again. Nvidia minus $50 doesn't cut it, even if their raster performance per dollar is a bit better sometimes. Officially backporting RDNA 4 to the 6000 series could have been a good win for AMD, instead they shoot themselves in the foot like this.
DomTehBomb@reddit
Tbf, where I live the 9070 xt is 600 and the 5070 ti is 800+ still. That does cut it imo.
SoilMassive6850@reddit
You mean the same Ryzen where they run the most bullshit and consumer misleading naming schemes that put even intel to shame as they rebadge generations old mobile CPUs to look like newer ones?
Oh well I guess its the consumers fault for not carrying around the naming wheel when going shopping.
ShogoXT@reddit
Please don't let go about the Vulkan instructions! That will have huge application and usage ramifications in the future!
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
cpu amd vs intel
gpu amd vs amd + nvidia
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
Intel arc market share so bad it doesnt exist as compeittion :*(
ShadowRomeo@reddit
AMD here truly living up with their "Advanced Marketing Disaster" reputation...
Clear-Lawyer7433@reddit
- Cells.
- CONFUSION. I bought RX 6600.
- Interlinked.
- CONFUSION. I bought RX 6650 XT.
- Within cells interlinked.
- TWO PCs, DOUBLE CONFUSION. AMD drops support.
- Dreadfully distinct.
- INFINITE CONFUSION. Games still run.
- Dark.
- CONFUSION. Consoles and handhelds still use RDNA2.
- Interlinked.
- PURE. UNSTOPPABLE. ETERNAL CONFUSION.
- You've been confused.
- I've been confused.
- Why don't you say that three times?
- I've been confused. I've been confused. I've been confused.
pppjurac@reddit
Never underestimate the SNAFU and FUBAR creation capabilities of Marketing and HR departments.
zakats@reddit
Steve is my anger translator. Thanks, Steve.
-
Side note: I was deciding between a 9060xt and a 9070 to replace my 2080ti before this news. Now I'm deciding between a 5070 and waiting for a B770. I didn't trust AMD/RTG not to screw me over.
Wobblycogs@reddit
I was looking yesterday and choosing between a 5070ti and a 9070xt. The 9070xt is about 50 bucks cheaper, but that's just not worth it for me. 50 bucks to have better Ray tracing and support seems like a no-brainer
Merdiso@reddit
This doesn't sound as a 'revert' per se, which is quite terrible, because it tells me FSR4 will not be released on RDNA2 whatsoever, although it could technically run it, but on the other hand, how many times do people need to realize AMD simply isn't up to par with nVIDIA when it comes to driver support and forward architecture thinking?
Turing (2018) has dedicated RT/Tensor cores specifically designed for RT/DLSS, whereas RDNA3 (2022 - 4 YEARS LATER) doesn't, and with that, I think I said it all.
In fact, I'm already sure RDNA 3 and even 4 will have the same faith, as UDNA/RDNA 5 will be a totally different architecture - which, by the way, will be literally a copy of Turing from a core perspective, which was released, once again, in 2018 -- 'Radiance Cores' are the ray-tracing cores, and 'Neural Arrays' are the tensor cores - obviously, much more powerful than Turing's, but you get the point - AMD is about 9 years behind nVIDIA in terms of architecture philosophy at this point.
So do not act surprised that 5700 XT didn't have more value compared to 2070S at 100$ more as some of people thought, there's a reason "nVIDIA -50$" doesn't work anymore, those 50$ will bite you in your ass next time and people have woken up.
RZ_1911@reddit
Oh come on .. not the first time . It’s not due to fsr4 discovery .. that’s old and policy about generation support .. typical graphics card generation is supported by amd - 3-4 years of full support . Then 3 years of maintenance . And product become legacy
Legendary rx480- 4 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
Legendary RX580 3 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
Vega - 3 years of support . 3 years of maintenance
How old rdna2 ? 3 years ? Guess what comes next ? Why it become a shocking news?
You can predict when rdna3 will become obsolete . Or when Udna become history .. convenient.. for amd
Somewhere laughing Ngreedia . But that’s a different story ..
jrr123456@reddit
RX 480 became legacy in 2023, that's 7 years of support
Vega launched in 2017, legacy in 2023, that's 6 years of support.
28nm GCN products became legacy in 2021, so for something like the HD7970, that was 9 years of support.
So in terms of predicting when AMD will make cards legacy, somewhere between 6 and 9 years.
RZ_1911@reddit
Legacy in terms of amd - when active support and maintenance mode passed .
Maintenance- they decide base version where they will fix bugs . But no features or extra support
Legacy means - no update even for maintenance version . So even if bug will be discovered after hitting legacy - it will not be fixed . Sometimes they does not bother with bug fixing even for maintenance version releases .. I still remover final release of HD5000 family driver for windows 10 .. DXVA not worked there .. was it fixed ? Nope
jrr123456@reddit
Polaris and Vega are still in maintenance then, they got a driver in may 2025 with bug fixes
But the point is, you got your timings wrong on the support length.
RZ_1911@reddit
Amd on downloading site for those drivers CLEARLY said Driver version 2023 . That’s the last driver version when those cards hited EOL (legacy )
What they updated there ? Control panel ? Overlays ? Help ? Additional architectural agnostic things? - does not matter
jrr123456@reddit
AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition 25.5.1 for Polaris & Vega Release Notes https://share.google/IYyM0FiazQ0dNlpDj
It fixed a crashing issue in black ops 6, a title from after they entered maintenance mode
SubRyan@reddit
The difference here is that RDNA 2 GPUs are still in production 3 years later
shalol@reddit
The RX580 was in production to 2021, some small amounts into 2022.
RZ_1911@reddit
Imagine pain of rx580 owners ..only 3 years of support . Officially their production ended in 2019 . But due to mining crisis production was restored in 2020 .
And that’s AFTER card hited maintenance status
They stopped resurrected manufacturing only in 2022 .
In 2023 - rx480/580 hited EOL
SuperNanoCat@reddit
Where are you getting this information? I haven't been able to find a support page from AMD clearly outlining which products are supported, in maintenance, or in legacy.
Polaris and Vega are still getting maintenance updates, as recently as August: https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/release-notes/RN-RAD-WIN-25-8-1-POLARIS-VEGA.html
They even get game fixes, still, as recently as May: https://www.amd.com/en/resources/support-articles/release-notes/RN-RAD-WIN-25-5-1-POLARIS-VEGA.html
They were only put on a separate driver branch in late 2023, six years after Vega launched in 2017 and seven years after Polaris launched in 2016. Doesn't seem like they're in legacy status just yet.
RZ_1911@reddit
Look on DRIVER VERSION . Not package version or release date. Inside those update packs you mentioned - 2023 driver .. which is last version before those cards hited EOL . Those fixes intended for additional software . Not the driver itself
wondersnickers@reddit
Imagine you have 2 car companies in the world:
One of them provides cars that are more expensive, charge extra for the normal amount of seats and their cars will likely melt at some point in time.
And you'd still have to heavily consider buying it, because you somehow have less confidence and trust it the only rival company.
(Last time I posted this I got downvoted, maybe this time people will understand me.)
viperabyss@reddit
You probably got downvoted because the analogy doesn't work, at all.
zakats@reddit
Mostly because r/fuckcars imo.
Vb_33@reddit
Problem is Nvidia GPUs are generally more reliable and versatile than AMD despite shit like Fermi house fires, wood screws memes and the shitty 12v connector.
We didn't know how good we had it in the Radeon HD 4000 days, now AMD just shows up for its participation trophy.
DadSchoorse@reddit
People shouldn't care about these game optimizations that nobody (without internal access) can really quantify.
What we can quantify is Vulkan/D3D12 feature support. Features that do not require new hardware. And there, Vega and older have no received anything since they were moved to the "maintenance" branch. And the recent driver release only adds
VK_KHR_shader_untyped_pointersfor RDNA3+, despite this being a quality of life extension that everyone can support.This means either graphics programmers have to plan around the RNDA2 drivers for the next 3 years and not require anything new, or they only support RDNA3+. Both are bad, and this is only caused by AMD wanting to save money in the wrong place.
Kougar@reddit
Far as I know "maintenance mode" is used to specifically precludes "new feature updates". Since AMD is trying to claim both simultaneously apply, I think AMD's GPU or marketing division has its head so far up its own rear end that they've achieved ouroboros status.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Welp to all those owners of a ASUS ROG G14 2022 where they’re stuck with an RDNA 2 GPU and CPU
BlueGoliath@reddit
You people think you're funny.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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