Polish is the most effective language for prompting AI, study reveals
Posted by tengo_harambe@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 202 comments
Posted by tengo_harambe@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 202 comments
kapees@reddit
Hopefully when the machines take over the World, they will speak polish :D
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
That's weird... Slavic languages are not the easiest ones, and require more tokens on average to express considering many noun forms. At least that's my understanding
fuutott@reddit
I'm not a linguist, but I am bilingual. There is what I could only describe as additional precision dimension that is there in Polish that English lacks.
brool@reddit
This is interesting, could you give a simple example?
fuutott@reddit
"I read the book" Finished or just nice afternoon read?
"Czytałem książkę." Subject is a man and unlikely that they finished as they would have said "Przeczytałem książkę."
BTW Book is a girl, feminine noun.
I'm not saying English lacks precision but one needs more words.
WorryMuted195@reddit
"Czytałem książkę" can be best translated as "I was reading a book", meaning action an action was not finished. I think it's less about the capabilities of the English language but moreso the person's knowledge of it. If you know the Polish language better than English of course Polish will seem more precise...
fuutott@reddit
Of course they can. But in this exercise we start with English sentence "I read the book".
PavelNesm@reddit
"A" book btw
fuutott@reddit
I actually meant that specific book
TheManicProgrammer@reddit
Always reminds me of my linguistics exams I took in uni where they had a question on a evidentiality markers (hearsay Vs direct) I image things like that would greatly help an LLM with context.
As a speaker of Japanese, it's always such a vague language and I imagine it and something like Korean or Chinese are also fairly hard to grasp the context fully
Something like Ringo wo tabeta? Did you eat the apple, in this could be 'the' or 'an'
Murgatroyd314@reddit
The challenging thing about Japanese is that anything that should be understood from context may be omitted from the sentence. Other than that, I'd expect that the particles explicitly marking parts of the sentence would help considerably.
randomanoni@reddit
Started omitting words in English too. Felt efficient. Girlfriend pissed. Much regret.
aichiusagi@reddit
I know its a joke, but all of these translate perfectly to Japanese, such that I can imagine a friend saying them quite easily.
randomanoni@reddit
There's some truth to the joke w. I used to be somewhat proficient in Japanese (close to JLPT 2 IIRC), but my interests shifted mainly due to needing to pay the bills. Possibly also because it started dawning on me that I had been "that cringy kid/guy" for most of my life. I have fond memories of being drunk and cringy in Japan though. I think the thing I loved most was simple courtesies resulting in mutual respect expressed with slight glances and a slight bow or nod, through the stress of hurrying to the next appointment.
wrecklord0@reddit
Why use lot word when few word do trick
TheManicProgrammer@reddit
You'd think that right... I had to go to the city office last week to submit some documents, their website stated you didn't have to print out; just showing was fine.. Nope... Even after showing the staff the website they just agreed it was ambiguous.
Particles are a great help though 👍
freeman_joe@reddit
You know this applies to all Slavic languages ?
Antique_Tea9798@reddit
Yes, but it doesn’t apply to English as the person was pointing out. It likely has to do with the design of the language + the prevalence in training data.
For example, Slovak is spoken by only 5m people and is an extremely rural country where literacy was low for a long time. The language is very direct (more so than Polish imo), but the training data for Slovak is going to be practically nonexistent.
freeman_joe@reddit
I was just saying that Polish is not special regarding Slavic languages. I understand that Slavic languages are different from other EU languages.
Antique_Tea9798@reddit
Yes, which is why the second half of my comment is important.
Polish is spoken by a LOT of people as compared to, say, Slovak
kaisurniwurer@reddit
Lately an idea of using telegraphic language got stuck in my head while I was messing around with emojis.
Same-ish concept. Direct expression with a single meaning.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Lojban. Enjoy the new rabbit hole
kaisurniwurer@reddit
Haha, that's cool, I did not know this.
In this case though, telegraphic language being baseline english (or using english words) should work better to actually feed information to the language where it doesn't need to fully comunicate but still respond to the user query. Like for reasoning.
octoberU@reddit
I would expect things like each noun having a gender, for example a cucumber being male and a dandelion being female. Which also requires every verb and adjective to specify a gender. I think languages like Spanish do things in a similar way but are a bit less extreme.
-dysangel-@reddit
and how does it make the language more precise that something like a cucumber has a gender?
Antique_Tea9798@reddit
Every word in Slavic languages transforms based on the surrounding context.
So while in english and many other languages, if you know each word in a sentence and then put them together, you have a sentence. In slavic languages, each word in a sentence will change depending on the surrounding context and genders.
This gives the languages a higher level of clarity when it comes to how it’s written.
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
Write a dense technical paragraph quickly. It will likely have many "this"s and "it"s that requires deep expertise to pare and understand what the previous concept is referred to. Well, detailed Slavic gender automatically solved 50% of this for you.
Smelly_Hearing_Dude@reddit
Actually, it solves 66.6% of the problem, because there are 3 genders in Polish.
zhambe@reddit
Think of it as more dimensions -- it's more precise as in it has more depth
aseichter2007@reddit
I expect that the gender assignment comes from a rule set.
fuutott@reddit
Polish has three noun genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Masculine nouns often end in a consonant, feminine nouns usually end in -a, and neuter nouns typically end in -o or -e. The gender of a noun determines how adjectives, pronouns, and verbs must agree with it.
fuutott@reddit
Code is masculine. Database is feminine. All the verbs will follow the above. I can see it helping with context.
RollingMeteors@reddit
There's also blame shifting. Like, if you walked into a room and slammed a door and that caused a bowl on the table to fall and break. In Polish, you could just say that thing fell apart due to it's own structural integrity failing; while in English you are blaming the person slamming the door for breaking the bowl instead of the bowl itself.
Smelly_Hearing_Dude@reddit
The bowl broke.
RollingMeteors@reddit
Which is what you would say after it fell onto the ground, yet the blame would still be on the body and not the bowl for it being broke.
Smelly_Hearing_Dude@reddit
Nah, it's good.
PS for being broken
Full-Contest1281@reddit
Something off the top of my head would be auxiliary verbs, like Do you speak English? In other Germanic languages you'd just say Speak you English? It's just more efficient.
cornucopea@reddit
Probably several dimensions. For a starter, English is about the only European language doesn't have gender.
Extension_Wheel5335@reddit
East Asian: Chinese, Japanese, and Korean generally lack grammatical gender.
Turkic: Turkish, Kazakh, and Tatar are genderless.
Uralic: Finnish, Hungarian, and Estonian are genderless languages.
Austronesian: Many languages in this family, such as Javanese and Tagalog, do not have grammatical gender.
Indo-European: Several Indo-European languages, including Persian, Armenian, and Bengali, have lost grammatical gender entirely. English has lost most grammatical gender, though it retains some gendered pronouns (he, she, it).
It interests me that English is Germanic, heavily influenced by French and Latin, yet French has gendered nouns and German does too, but English does not. I would have expected root languages to follow similar patterns but I guess not globally.
BaNiQueeN@reddit
Love having a genderless language. So ancient, yet so forward. Wish our politics and overall society/attitude represented that...
Extension_Wheel5335@reddit
Why would nouns even need a gender? Are we assuming the gender of an orange? Oranges are apparently feminine, according to the language. I could see that for peaches perhaps, but still. But then eggplant in Spanish is also feminine, which doesn't make sense. Wonder how they came up with all that.
BaNiQueeN@reddit
Exactly... It shouldn't exist, it's inaccurate and a redundant complication
AppearanceHeavy6724@reddit
All Turkic languages are genderless: Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbek, Azerbaijani, Turkmen, Baskhkir - whole group is such.
No-Refrigerator-1672@reddit
I don't know what abput Polish make it stand out the most; but Slavic languages, due to intricate system of prefixes, postfixes and suffixes, are very robust against formulation errors, making it possible to reconstruct the meaning even if you completely randomize the word order in the sentence, as well as convey some of typically non-verbal info like speaker's personal attitude, emotional tone, and so on. I would bet that those factors contribute to the results. Also, to the best of my knowledge, many of other European language do that in some extend.
dwr_12@reddit
I am Polish and English teacher. I can tell you this: polish is far more precise when it comes to describing objects, situations, conversations, plenty of stuff compare to English. What does it mean? Well, in polish you can use less words to describe something precisely due to complex grammar structure which is difficult to learn and understand at first but once you get it it’s simple as hell. English is based on word order in sentence, in polish not necessarily which is quite common in Slavic languages shocking for learners:
1.Jan kocha Marię ( John loves Maria) 2.Marię kocha Jan (Maria is being loved by John) 3.Kocha Jan Marię (Loves John Maria (?) ) 4.Marię kocha Jan (Maria is loved by John)
In polish the meaning of all 4 sentences is exactly the same. It’s the same sentence but different word order, in English there are 4 different sentences which meaning vary on the context.
Other example : Wczoraj kupiłem dom ( I bought the house yesterday) << literal meaning >> yesterday bought I the house. Difference? In polish the verb defines the person and role in the sentence and meaning which is way more precise
mpasila@reddit
I mean that also works for Finnish but Finnish performs pretty poorly probably due to low amount of data available. (most open-weight models can't even understand basic spoken Finnish)
They only tested models that they themselves didn't train so they have no idea how much data each language had and the quality of said data which I think has bigger impact than the language itself.
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
I see your point. Slavic languages are less contextual than English that's for sure.
deoxyrybonucleic@reddit
Those many forms actually make it so that it requires more tokens and due to the grammar structure, the sentences are usually more precise and have less double meanings. That’s the same reason why Russian is second and French is third
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
Russian is far behind french. If your hypothesis was correct, Slavic languages would dominate. I speak three Slavic languages and some French, and it's not even the same universe. The real answer is that we are looking at fluctuations.
AssistBorn4589@reddit
Polish and Russian has the most speakers overall. Reason why other Slavic languages are less presented is because there is much less training data available and LLMs still sucks at using them in general.
For example, even now, when I start speaking Slovak to any LLM (including commerical ones), it tends to descend into mixture of Czech and Slovak quite quickly.
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
Nice guessing, but it makes no sense. The Russian language has by far more users than Polish and Italian. The number of books in Russian in the huge books torrent is third after English and Chinese. And yet, Russian is behind. Ukrainian very closely follows Russian, while its presence in training is orders of magnitude smaller (as someone who grew up and got an education in Ukraine).
AssistBorn4589@reddit
But Russian language is like caveman's slavic, on oposite side of spectrum when it comes to precision.
To use example from above, where polish say "I read book," russian does same thing as english. "I. Read. Book."
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
It's a very nice solid theory when you need a new claim for every pair. Now do Italian and Russian.
AssistBorn4589@reddit
Sorry but while I don't speak hardly any russian (im the generation which got switched to English really early after USSR crashed), I couldn't express even that I don't speak Italian in that language.
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
The funnier it will be.
AssistBorn4589@reddit
In any case, your problem seems to be that you treat "Slavic" as one large interchangable group. We share a lot, our languages are still distinct even on basic grammar level.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages#/media/File:Slavic_europe_(Kosovo_shaded).svg
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
Humorous, but you could do better.
alamacra@reddit
So you call Russian "caveman's Slavic" and assume it "lacks precision" while being able to speak hardly any of it. Neat-o~
AssistBorn4589@reddit
I also don't speak any Polish and still can understand it and recognize how the language works. I was taught basic Russian grammar and can construct sentences with dictionary at hand.
alamacra@reddit
"Book" has a feminine gender in Russian, so I am not entirely sure as to why you ascribed genderlessness to it. (Or to the verb for that matter, cause читал and читала are not the same).
On top of that, if you say "читал я книгу" the VSO word order here puts the emphasis on reading, I.e. that's how you'd say the sentence when someone claims you didn't read the book, and you aren't going to agree with that. Comparatively, SVO sounds standard and neutral.
petuman@reddit
Is there really gendered forms of "I"? Wiki doesn't seem to show any: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Polish_pronouns
AssistBorn4589@reddit
No, masculine form actually goes to verb. Sorry, way I expressed it was probably stupid.
AppearanceHeavy6724@reddit
This is not true. Russian has free order of words in sentence. Canonical for "I am reading book" is "Ya chitayu knigu". But all 6 permutations all are valid and carry subtle difference in meaning.
Source: 40+ years of natively speaking Russian.
Nixellion@reddit
Thats incorrect. There is same layer of precision in Russian. There is like a few dozen ways you can mutate a single word to add those details.
mediandude@reddit
Which means precise input is an additional requirement, otherwise the output would be more off.
previse_je_sranje@reddit
Slavic languages are more intuitive and much more expressive than the rigid English structure.
Tokens needed per expression is probably lower which is evident by us Slavs skipping a lot of useless filler words.
AppearanceHeavy6724@reddit
It depends how you define "expressive" but on per-character basis Russian has low information density, and the same book gets bigger 50% when translated from english to Russian.
phenotype001@reddit
Well.. maybe not the easiest *for people*.
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
I lean towards one of the explanations given by somebody in replies here that it is likely related to how the sentence context depends on individual words in the given sentence. Words in English can have very different meanings depending on the context - that's way less common in Slavic languages. And I wonder about Italian as it scored higher than English, too.
Exarch_Maxwell@reddit
Maybe that's what favors them (haven't read the paper). It cannot read the same sentence in different ways because it would need different tokens or at least that it happens less than with otjer languages.
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
Yeah, that makes sense
_Erilaz@reddit
Polish is a bit easier on tokens cause it doesn't use Cyrillic alphabet.
lambdawaves@reddit
More tokens with lower density turns out is good for precision?
Scared_Astronaut9377@reddit
The answer is that we are looking at fluctuations that journalists oversell.
StupidityCanFly@reddit
LLMs fear
kurwa?UncleEnk@reddit
pierdole
AppearanceHeavy6724@reddit
chui
FitAssociation9297@reddit
It spells: chuj
AppearanceHeavy6724@reddit
chuj und pizda sind zwei Freunde
sylwester1975@reddit
kurwa > fuck 😆
grumpy_autist@reddit
At this point
kurwais a distinct token by itselfoffensiveinsult@reddit
Ok that's something i can test very easily ;-) cant believe I've been prompting only in English and never even tried my native language ;-D.
Quiark@reddit
But they have a lot more English in the training set, wouldn't that be a big advantage?
JimmyTango@reddit
Not necessarily. A commenter above spelled out the overall grammatical elements of Polish and it is very comprehensive compared to other languages that have more explicit grammatical structure than English. Since LLMs essentially quantize the characters in order to perform their probability algorithmic executions, having a more explicit grammatical structure means there’s less statistical variance in the input output because the math isn’t as broad statistically.
Ok-386@reddit
But why Polish explicitly? There are other similar languages like Serbo-Croatian dialects (I mean they call them different languages whatever), Slovak, Checz?
FitAssociation9297@reddit
Russian is 84%, other slavic languages wasn't use in the experiment
camelos1@reddit
information from the article:
"The top 10 most effective languages for conversational AI were as follows:
- Polish 88%
- French 87%
- Italian 86%
- Spanish 85%
- Russian 84%
- English 83.9%
- Ukrainian 83.5%
- Portuguese 82%
- German 81%
- Dutch 80%"
silenceimpaired@reddit
You've convinced me not to bother learning Polish. English will have to suffice. \~5% gain not worth 30% inefficiency learning another language this late in life.
TheRealGentlefox@reddit
Or French for 1% less efficiency and you can talk to a significantly larger range of people =P
givingupeveryd4y@reddit
cheap bait.
kamiloslav@reddit
Probably balance between the above and the amount of data in the training set
Able-Locksmith-1979@reddit
Maybe the polish only have questions while the answers are in English
SnackerSnick@reddit
I too would like to hear your results. Please post about it!
Ngoalong01@reddit
waiting for your "offénive result" after test :))
esuil@reddit
Well, no one was forcing you, but now that you came out and said it, you owe everyone a story on how it goes. :-p
jax_cooper@reddit
Some bratanki were missing out
Salty-Garage7777@reddit
Curious... 🤔 Maybe for the newest models... I remember giving the gpt-4 puzzles in Polish involving a person's age ('wiek' in Polish) and it always confused it with the 'century', which is also 'wiek' in Polish. The results were extremely hilarious! 🤣🤣🤣
RollingMeteors@reddit
¡grok gonna get a cross post now!
Savantskie1@reddit
I’d be interested in your results too
jazir555@reddit
I'd actually be fascinated to hear your results.
Autysta94@reddit
could be but it should first be the main language of the model, not second lel
sylwester1975@reddit
Polish vs. English
sylwester1975@reddit
Polish vs. English
Medium_Chemist_4032@reddit
It would score 100% easily, if tasks were specifically related to complaining
sylwester1975@reddit
Latina is death language. 💀💀💀🤭
RollingMeteors@reddit
The hardest aspects of Polish grammar to learn include the complex system of seven cases, three grammatical genders, and numerous noun and adjective declensions, as well as intricate verb conjugations that change based on gender, aspect (perfective/imperfective), and other factors.
On top of that Polish orthography is considered difficult due to its complex consonant clusters, multiple digraphs, and several letters or letter combinations that represent the same sound, such as ó and u, and the RZ/SZ sound distinction. Additionally, the presence of a trigraph (dzi) and a large number of letters with diacritical marks (ć, ś, ź, ż, ń, ą, ę) adds to the challenge for learners, as seen in complex consonant clusters like in the tongue-twister "W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie".
I was told if I didn't learn this shit in childhood I'd never really learn it. I can only speak the language fluently but reading/writing is at a grade school level.
Powerful_Ad8150@reddit
Nie przesadzaj. "kurwa" i "pierdole" zastępują kropki, przecinki, wykrzykniki oraz to najdoskonalsza forma "perfect" dla past, present i future.
RollingMeteors@reddit
You're being downvoted but this is exactly the grammar rules I learned in the streets of Poland when my mother send me over there in between US grades during grammar school summer vacation.
tkenben@reddit
I can perhaps naively assume then that there is more information baked into the grammar than in other languages where context supplies a generous contribution to the meaning. In other words, the advantage in LLM use comes from it being more semantically precise due - as one example - to an alphabet having additional symbols.
brunoha@reddit
Yes, it is probably because it has so many rules, and for an LLM it's easy to consult all of them compared to what a human can remember.
I still try to chat with it in English, but the AI at my work is configured to answer in Portuguese, which is also a tough language to learn, but it always answers correctly...
freeman_joe@reddit
So basically slavic languages.
RollingMeteors@reddit
latin won over cyclic tho.
nenulenu@reddit
Sounds like any Indian language
ptyslaw@reddit
wtf is “Latina” language
KrazyKirby99999@reddit
Latin
_supert_@reddit
It's Latin version A.
Badger-Purple@reddit
update is Latin X
Medium_Chemist_4032@reddit
https://www.tiktok.com/@historicalfatpeople/video/7277697478005132587
nenulenu@reddit
It's the language of the people with large cleavages.
Crypt0Nihilist@reddit
Polish girl I know says that a Polish woman is only happy when she walks away from a conversation with her neighbour over the fence where she wins the debate on whose life is harder, unhappier and about to be worse.
themoregames@reddit
Sounds fun, to be honest. In other countries neighbours don't even say 'hello'.
FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit
Polish allows for many subtle modifications to a word that may indeed make things very precise.
Good example
In my experience, local LLMs are very bad to just a tiny bit bad on Polish. And Chinese LLMs specifically are often very bad.
So in practice, I use English to prompt local LLMs and use Polish only when I know I am interacting with a strong LLM.
log_2@reddit
Cool image, but that list is woefully incomplete: nagraj, nagrał, nagrałaś, ..., odgrać, etc.
AXYZE8@reddit
None of that has to do anything with "game". Nagraj = record
Also there is no such word as odgrać in dictionary, but it would make sense only if you would use that as "declutter" for example "odgrać swój pokój".
TheAiDran@reddit
"Nagraj się teraz póki możesz, bo potem nie będziesz miał okazji" - Play a lot while you can for now, because you won't have the opportunity later
it should be rather "odegrać" not "odgrać" - take one's revenge
AXYZE8@reddit
Nagraj = record, so Nagraj się means record yourself
Dictionary: https://sjp.pwn.pl/sjp/nagra%C4%87-si%C4%99-i;2486123.html
"record your voice or image on tape"
play a lot while you can = Zagraj teraz póki możesz :)
TheAiDran@reddit
sure it is slang word. Look at the random forum by google search: "my tez kiedys sie bawilismy PS2 (ty PS3 wiem ;)) ale jakos krotko ;) a teraz to juz czasu nie ma :( nagraj sie poki mozesz"
AXYZE8@reddit
It's just like people using "then" instead of "than" in a sentences like "this laptop is lighter then that book". That not a slang word, thats just a mistake.
I'm pretty sure you agree that "zagraj" is the correct word for playing
TheAiDran@reddit
You don't get it. Just ask chatgpt it has been learned on all unfromal data from forums, blogs, etc. https://chatgpt.com/share/690a2709-f718-8010-8fda-732eef6d410b
example: https://forum.parenting.pl/topic/6949-zwiazki-mieszane-czyli-mezowie-obcokrajowcy/page/38/
HiddenoO@reddit
I just checked their GitHub repository and immediately found an error in their German prompt here.
The English original says "Please provide your answer in the following format", but the German translation says "Übersetzung" meaning "translation" instead of "Antwort" for "answer", so the German prompt tells the model to provide a translation instead of an answer for the task of counting the words, which is obviously nonsense.
I'd expect this to be mostly representative of how well the prompts are written, not necessarily of how well the languages are suited.
tdq17@reddit
I have also found it sus and checked it for Russian. The prompt mistakenly includes the word “key” (not only in a query, but inside the instruction itself) unlike in German or English. This sentence makes no sense in Russian
-oshino_shinobu-@reddit
Thank you. Very important detail
Nulligun@reddit
Thank you. Everyone else sitting around telling jokes an LLM could have made in here.
camelos1@reddit
"In comparison, Chinese performed notably poorly, ranking fourth from the bottom out of the 26 languages tested.
The top 10 most effective languages for conversational AI were as follows:
- Polish 88%
- French 87%
- Italian 86%
- Spanish 85%
- Russian 84%
- English 83.9%
- Ukrainian 83.5%
- Portuguese 82%
- German 81%
- Dutch 80%"
Can anyone with an understanding of these languages and how AI works figure out why the top languages on the list are 10% better than Dutch, and even more so than Chinese? That's quite a percentage...
Disco_Janusz40@reddit
Chinese like the other east Asian languages is pretty damn vague. Polish is pretty context free in comparison
TheRealGentlefox@reddit
I'm not a linguist or a tokenizer expert, but the AI may also just dislike the structure of words.
English has computer as "something/one that computes", Chinese has it as "electric brain". Both seem to suit humans just fine, but LLMs aren't humans. I actually would have expected LLMs to like Chinese more since it's like building blocks from simple concepts, but apparently not.
camelos1@reddit
I've heard this opinion here before. Can you explain in more detail what causes their vagueness (for example, in relation to English or Indo-European languages in general)? What language features lead to this?
ilintar@reddit
As a native Polish user I can say this doesn't really surprise me. Polish is very context-free as people have mentioned, a lot of semantic markers are included in the grammatical form. The sheer number of syntactic forms (tenses, genders etc.) means much less ambiguity.
Latin would probably rank similarly for the same reasons, but as it's a dead language we can't really verify that.
zhambe@reddit
One would expect other Slavic languages to rank similarly, wonder what makes Polish in particular stand out.
stoppableDissolution@reddit
Russian is less dense per character, probably that makes it score less. Other Slavics are just comparatively low on online content, I'd assume.
TheRealGentlefox@reddit
Density is probably bad for LLMs. If I can say "oldhead" and you have to say "Person who was around closer to the beginning of a hobby or artform and thus has experienced a larger range of the subject compared to someone newer to the field, likely leading to different opinions," then that's more total information per idea, and more "test time compute" in a weird way.
camelos1@reddit
Here's the original article - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2503.01996
There are some interesting conclusions there, for example, if the large text itself is in one (possibly rare) language, but the LLM "what to do" command is issued in the language in which it works best, then the result is better (than if the "what to do" command for the LLM is written in the language of the large text).
camelos1@reddit
It's also possible that Polish uses the Latin alphabet, instead of the Cyrillic alphabet used by some Slavic languages (like Russian). However, my token counting shows that roughly the same text in Polish has more or the same number of tokens as the Russian translation of the same text. Perhaps the use of the Latin alphabet, like in English, somehow benefits it when solving problems with the LLM model, since the Latin alphabet provides more material than the Cyrillic alphabet.
redditor1235711@reddit
JA PIERDOLE!
Professional-Put-196@reddit
Polish, the language or Polish, the thing that you put on shoes? Or is it Polski? Or Polska? Linguistic ambiguity and context are a feature of European languages. LLMs will always be idiots as long as they are trained for linguistic predictions.
That-Whereas3367@reddit
How do you write "anime girl with big tits" in Polish. Asking for a friend.
Rodrige_@reddit
Pan z dużymi jajami
NotBasileus@reddit
I threw it in Forge and it worked!
Of course, that’s also what half the models generate by default anyway, so… inconclusive.
raysar@reddit
French in second position ! It could be a very précise language with good structure.
DrDisintegrator@reddit
HP's RPN lives.
tmvr@reddit
MDT-49@reddit
Interesting, but not surprising. Polish is arguably the most polished language.
quietobserver1@reddit
I also realize we'd been taking advice to "Polish the prompt" all wrong...
Amazing_Athlete_2265@reddit
Now we polish the Polish prompts
Amazing_Athlete_2265@reddit
Did anybody try Welsh?
Lifeisshort555@reddit
So convert my prompts to polish before prompting?
evia89@reddit
polish images https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.17800 ^/s
AleksHop@reddit
bobr kurwa!
Human_lookin_cat@reddit
I genuinely can't tell if this is propaganda. The article talks about this like it's like some universal phenomenon, as if polish is just a universally "better" language. And it's written by a polish journalist. I also find it funny how he included DeepSeek in the list of models they evaluated, even though the researchers just use it as an example in the addendum, not doing the full benchmark for cost cutting purposes. (lmao)
The benchmark that's being evaluated in the paper is RULER, which is composed mainly of NIAH and retrieval tasks. If we have a language like polish in the data that tokenizes poorly, a single key will likely be spread out over multiple tokens, meaning it's easier for the model to see that all of the tokens match or don't match, compared to the significantly more clumped distributions of English or Chinese. Now yes, they do try to control for it, but I'd call their approach bullshit. Two tokens being attended to in a single word for a task like NIAH makes a massive difference than in general having 100,001 tokens in context instead of 100,000.
It's also important to mention that all the multilingual versions of RULER they made here are evaluated on completely different texts. Some of them with different formatting (see German vs English, for example). And they only seem to use one real text per language for NIAH. So it'll never be an apples-to-apples comparison unless we somehow same a million diverse texts that never ever appear in the training data for every variant (which, for smaller language groups, is hard!)
The model choice here is also questionable, they sample all of... six. Qwen 2.5 7B, Qwen 2.5 72B, Llama 3.1 8B, Llama 3.3 70B, o3-mini-high, and gemini-1.5-flash. Funnily enough, you can see that models with better tokenizers (specifically, Gemini) don't really have this bias. They have their own, different biases: o3 mini, besides polish, also really likes Norwegian, and Gemini REALLY likes Sesotho, despite it being an insanely undersampled language. But all the characters there are latin (meaning the model can steal understanding from bigger datasets, like english), and the model's likely been trained on all available public data, so it's insanely dubious to claim that this somehow makes it a "better" language to prompt with.
This doesn't even pass as good ragebait. Come on poland, do better.
Salty-Garage7777@reddit
So I actually went and read the paper after seeing your comment, and honestly..... I'm a bit confused by some of your takes? 😅
First off - it's not written by "a Polish journalist" lol, it's researchers from UMD, Microsoft and UMass. They never claim Polish is somehow superior -they just report what they found in their tests and pit out some hypotheses about why.
The DeepSeek - yeah they literally say upfront they only tested it in English cause of cost constraints, which is pretty normal for academic research??? Not exactly hiding anything there.
About tokenization: there's a whole appendix (D) where they dig into this, they tested different ways to control for token counts and still got consistent results (Kendall's τ=0.82). Sure it's a challenge, but they acknowledge it openly instead of pretending it doesn't exist.
And the different books per language - you frame this as some gotcha moment but they discuss it themselves as a limitation. That's called intellectual honesty, not a weakness. 🤦
You mentioned Gemini doing well on Sesotho - yep, they report that too -just presenting the data.
The benchmark has limitations for sure, but calling it biased agenda-pushing is biased agenda-pushing!
Human_lookin_cat@reddit
Nah, the article's written by a Polish guy, obviously not the paper. I think I made that clear. The research itself is fine, even kind of interesting, though lacking imo. They're not hiding shit, this just isn't some kind of conclusive end-all be-all thing.
Again, claiming that "polish is the best language for AIs" off off a few percentage gains in a single, incomplete benchmark which we know can easily be biased is dumb.
PassengerBright4111@reddit
Nah, the article's written by a Polish guy, obviously not the paper. I think I made that clear. The research itself is fine, even kind of interesting, though lacking imo. They're not hiding shit, this just isn't some kind of conclusive end-all be-all thing.
Again, claiming that "polish is the best language for AIs" off off a few percentage gains in a single, incomplete benchmark which we know can easily be biased is dumb.
zhambe@reddit
Sheesh, no need to get upset
Flaky-Restaurant-392@reddit
I thought computers spoke reverse polish
Everlier@reddit
Two likely fenomena: - Polish tokenizes poorly - LLM is left with more tokens budget for same input/output semantically. I.e. poor man's test time compute scaling. Check out klmbr for a technique that does the same for English inputs - Like other people mentioned - slavic languages are more context free, which naturally plays well with attention
Thomas-Lore@reddit
Shame all of the llms, and especially the Chinese ones make grammar and spelling mistakes when writing in Polish, despite apparwntly understanding it well. Haven't found a single one that does not in any more complex creative writing.
osfric@reddit
Don't worry, Spanish is still 2 places higher than English on the effectivity ranking
oftenyes@reddit
It is probably people just polishing their prompts
Unique-Spite8486@reddit
Doesn't mistake it for an eye test?
Xamanthas@reddit
200 upvotes. Let that sink in. Thats the minimum number of DS effect users here
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nck_pi@reddit
Is that due to the Polish language itself, or dataset bias?
Tema_Art_7777@reddit
Hah - I wonder if they tried reverse Polish 😀
NNN_Throwaway2@reddit
How is it possible for professional journalism to be THIS bad?
A cursory skim of the paper reveals that his was not an instruction-follwing benchmark, but rather a long-context-retrieval benchmark, which measures an entirely different thing.
MustBeSomethingThere@reddit
>"Out of 26 different languages"
previse_je_sranje@reddit
yea i'm sure some zimbabwean language will be more efficient
Extension_Wheel5335@reddit
Aramaic or Hebrew.. I bet Hebrew would be interesting with the tokenization.
IllllIIlIllIllllIIIl@reddit
Ancient Summerian, like the gods intended.
monkey6123455@reddit
Are you the Keymaster?
TheRealMasonMac@reddit
Linear A is the best.
___Jet@reddit
Tamazigh best :
ⵉⵙ ⵜⴰⵔⵎ ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ
ShadowbanRevival@reddit
o.O
Murgatroyd314@reddit
The word "identical" in that sentence is problematic.
--dany--@reddit
And they still wanted to make it more efficient by inventing Reverse Polish Notions, so that you can have all math equations without parentheses! Of course AI loves such kind of concise no-nonsense language!
jonas-reddit@reddit
It’s probably because The Witcher books were included in the training.
Monochrome21@reddit
this says to me that polish is just very good at transferring meaning without being ambiguous
WildRacoons@reddit
I bet python would be even better at prompting
Working-Magician-823@reddit
AI is passed prompting, but it takes time for slower thinking humans to get that and understand
mattindustries@reddit
I wouldn't trust your prompts anyhow, considering you used the wrong word AND the wrong part of speech.
Working-Magician-823@reddit
"Prompting" ???? it is almost 2026, not "AI 1925", prompting was last AI era.
MDT-49@reddit
This isn't necessarily about prompting, as the study also looked at language and performance based on the context sizes. It's more about (the structure of) different languages and semantic meaning, but it takes time for slower thinking humans to get that and understand
Working-Magician-823@reddit
It is sll tokens, it doesn't matter, there is nothing special in any language
But again, the title said "prompting", that is soooo last "decade" right now
FencingNerd@reddit
The details of how you generate the tokens matter. English is kind of terrible in that the same word is frequently used for different things. Resolving this to the correct token (concept) requires understanding the surrounding tokens. A more precise starting language could easily result in better token inputs.
Working-Magician-823@reddit
yeh, the polish language is perfect, zero word reuse, perfect grammar, done in math :) ok :)
greg_barton@reddit
Only because they didn't try Klingon. Qaplah'!
pioo84@reddit
Seems like Polish is good for notations.
swagonflyyyy@reddit
r/2westerneurope4u
GatePorters@reddit
Ancient Hebrew is best overall, surprisingly.
segmond@reddit
polishganda, sorry, but we not falling for it and not gonna train LLMs in polish.
kartblanch@reddit
Its the femboys
tengo_harambe@reddit (OP)
Link to the paper
lagerdalek@reddit
Thank you