Which full face mask model is suitable for CBRN/ABC hazards?

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Wild_Locksmith_326@reddit

What is an ABC hazard, I am a CBRNE trainer and unfamiliar with this term. Remember the mask is only part of the kit, without protection from the aerosolized droplets which can be dermally absorbed the mask is only protecting one of your vulnerable vectors. It is great against irritants,but not so great against actual agents. Biological is even harder to gear up against. What is your specific scenario you are gearing up against.

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Hefty-Top-8119@reddit

ABC - Atomic, Biological, Chemical NBC - Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Both are simply old US military terms for CBRNE.

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Wild_Locksmith_326@reddit

Thank you, the term atomic predates my being a DP Representative for my wing.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

I am preparing for a chemical, biological, or nuclear accident.

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Wild_Locksmith_326@reddit

Sorry to burst your bubble but biological is almost impossible to prevent, by the time your incubation period has ended you either are infectious, or infected by the bioweapon. They really are not practical because once released you no longer have any control. Nuclear is a bit more straight forward. Time, distance, and mass are your best friends. The longer you wait to come out of your shelter the lower the radiation count will become. The further you are away from the detonation point the lower your exposure level is, the heavier your shelter mass is the more it protects you. Chemical warfare like VX, Sarin and some of the nastier nerve agents are absorbable through your skin and the amount is stupid low to be dangerous. A droplet the size of a pen mark can be a fatal dose. Blister agents are just as bad l, but they do not interfere with your nerves and body functions, they just cause huge blisters where they get in your skin. Without the whole support system of testing gear, detection monitors, and other accoutrements involved effective NBC, or CBRNE defense would be an almost insurmountable tasking. I'm not saying it's impossible, just very difficult.

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TruePrepper@reddit

Probably an autocorrect from the older CBRN term NBC.

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Prepper-Pup@reddit

Personally? MIRA safety. They take 40mm filters vs proprietary and harder to locate ones. They're a supplier for military/police forces, and their masks are basically re-branded military models.

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HazMatsMan@reddit

You forgot the adjectives over-priced and dubious (products, claims, and quality).

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Thank you for the information. What has already happened with Mira?

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HazMatsMan@reddit

The criticsims have been covered by me and others in other comments.

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Prepper-Pup@reddit

I've not seen any red flags in regards to quality. As for price, I'd rather pay more for a new mask, than less for a "should-be-good" surplus mask. But, to each their own.

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HazMatsMan@reddit

Would you even know how or where to look for red flags? Have you had any formal training beyond FEMA's IS-5 independent study class? Have you ever actually worn any of this equipment in a live environment? I can tell you their Geiger 2 device would be next to useless in an actual radiological event. They're using very loose wording with their "Haz Suit" to make buyers believe it's a Kappler OEM suit, which it isn't. Those my friend, are "red flags".

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Prepper-Pup@reddit

Look for red flags? Actually yes, no need to get snarky, because I agree with you. I have a Masters in Emergency Management/Disaster Preparedness, specialized in radiological response/pandemics, and have taken many of FEMA's IS classes such as the professional development series, HSEEP, etc. I'm in complete agreement with you regarding some of MIRA's other products, of which can easily be discovered with a brief googling.

You're 100% correct- the Geiger 2 falls into the same trap as many other similar products- ones that will get overwhelmed in even a minor radiological emergency. I'm not familiar with different manufacturers, but it's besides the points, because 99.99% of people wanting to prepare for the "C" in "CBRN" will be dead since they've never donned the equipment in a hot environment- let alone been taught correctly to even wear the thing in a safe environment.

(To be fair, I don't understand trying to prepare for legitimate chemical weapons...by the time you realize it, you're dead.) It's just impractical.

But I'm strictly speaking to the masks, of which, appear to be re-branded products that are utilized by the Czech military. The primary complaint I've seen is that they're expensive- yet all I've been able to find are "brand new surplus" offered by private sellers.

If the primary complaint is price, then I'm still happy to recommend their mask, because I will gladly pay an upcharge knowing I'm getting a brand-new mask rather than trusting a private seller. But that's just me.

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AnitaResPrep@reddit

The CZ masks are good products, tough, used as instance in the UKrainian frontline. Price is not so over rated, since any good CBRN is above 300 or far more (new, recent product). Another not so well known, and still new (as produced and stored by Turkey) is the former S6 (UK prior to S10), excellent and comfortable, some Etsy shops sell them, and they are not expensive. Free shipping to Germany. Can share the link.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Hey, thanks for the offer. Could you send me the link? That would be very kind.

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Sansui350A@reddit

The Haz-Suit IS essentially a Kappler Z300 suit.. but it is NOT rated for all they pitch it as.. technically. Kappler was making that for them far as I know, confirmed by a Kappler rep I had spoken to in past. I do not know if this is STILL the case however.

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Sansui350A@reddit

Exactly. I would not purchase from them unless in a country where they are the only ones not banned for import, and the only option available.

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bikumz@reddit

They are not a supplier for any military, maybe smaller police agencies that don’t know better but not any military I’m aware of. Militaries do use the masks mira sells, but they are sold direct from manufacturers without the upcharge you pay from Mira.

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Prepper-Pup@reddit

Correct- they re-brand masks for civilian use- since civilians can't purchase from the factor. Sure you can get a "like new" surplus mask, but I'd rather pay more for a factory-sealed product that I trust my life to.

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bikumz@reddit

Yet other sellers of the same exact mask are much cheaper. You can get them brand new from other sources, just gotta search. Only reason Mira is popular is marketing, there are better masks and there are cheaper masks that do the same thing. Couldn’t imagine being the sucker to buy them.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Which masks do you buy for CRBN/ABC hazards?

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bikumz@reddit

I don’t really by masks for “CBRN” you’re thinking of probably, I stick to 3M respirators. I don’t have proper decontamination process/supplies nor feel a full on need for them. I feel threats like tear gas, smoke, or some sort of illness to be more of a probable threat I can handle.

I do own an Avon mask I think it’s a C50 if I remember correctly but just because it was a really good deal. From what I’ve been told and have learned it’s a pretty good mask, and Avon is pretty top tier stuff. I don’t know the most about gas masks, but head over to r/gasmasks and feel free to search up all the bad Mira talk.

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Prepper-Pup@reddit

I have searched- and all I've found are "like new surplus." Personally, I'm fine paying an extra fifty bucks if I know the product is new. But that's just me.

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Chief_Mischief@reddit

Avon is the gold standard for CBRN; however, as others have mentioned, Mira also provides a good and cheaper alternative. I will say that Mira's products are greatly overpriced. You can get the same exact products from other places that sell them.

For example, Mira's CM-8M mask is being sold for $280 on their website, but the CM-8M is the same mask made by Avec Chem (OM-2020), and you can find sites that sell it for like €150, like this one.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Hey, thank you for the link. Is the mask compatible with standard RD-40 NATO filters?

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Chief_Mischief@reddit

Not familiar with specific models, but the Mira one says it is compatible with all standard NATO filters, and Avon's C50, which i have, has the following verbiage on the Avon site:

The C50 twin port mask is NIOSH CBRN Cap 1 approved with the CBRNCF50 filter (TC-14G-0318), NIOSH 42 CFR 84 riot control CS/CN/P100 approved with the CTCF50 filter (TC-14G-0322) and NIOSH 42 CFR 84 P100 approved with the CFP100 filter (TC-84A-9233). The C50 meets the latest NATO military requirements.

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Sansui350A@reddit

I'm assuming US here so some of this may not apply otherwise..

Depends.. keep in mind if you're going to use it in any real workplace besides in your SHTF stash or whatever, you need a NIOSH certified mask and filters (they're certified TOGETHER, not separately). Mira's masks are NOT certified here in the US.

That aside, avoid any of the generic stuff, and use something that you can get combination particulate+acid and gas filtration carts/canisters for. I do sell this type of stuff under my business if you want some options from me, or I can help with other suggestions. Also.. do keep in mind.. a CBRN/ABC respirator/gasmask and filters is only PART of what you need.. you need gloves, boots/boot covers, suit etc.. and the TRAINING and experience to handle these things, or you're just going to die anyway. Most people I generally point to decent TIC-rated stuff, since that's all most people can realistically survive.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Hey, I'm definitely interested in your company's products. Are your masks compatible with the standard RD-40 NATO filter?

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Sansui350A@reddit

I have some that are yes, and NIOSH certified here in the US at that too.. bit of a lead time on them though, especially the Scott AV-3000 Sureseal kits. The other cart-based ones less so.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Yes, the delivery time isn't a problem. Do you deliver to Germany?

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Sansui350A@reddit

I can.. but it's going to be more expensive than it's worth for something you can technically get there. And being in Germany I highly suggest Dräger's masks.. easily available there. And certified in your country.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

I'll think about it. But thanks for the tip about Dräger.

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Sansui350A@reddit

Absolutely!

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Swmp1024@reddit

A properly fitting 3m full face like 3M 6800 and the olive-magenta 60926 is the most robust civilian mask. P100, acid-gas, organic vapors. Most of what you are going for is particulate filtration and P100 is what you want.

Notably, civilian masks aren't rated for NBC/CBRM threats

You can also buy military surplus masks and nato NBC/CBRN filters.

You should also get either the 40mm nato to 3m or 3m to 40mm nato adapters based on whatever you use so you can use either filters

Careful buying old Milsurp masks. I have a few and many of the rubber gaskets crack, the plastic is old and brittle. The thing I do like about military masks is that you can shoot with them, the 3M style masks have bulbous eye shields, so you can't really get great eye alignment with a rifle.

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CadetThrowAwaway@reddit

Aside from dropping several thousand dollars on an actual SCBA, I think a full-face respirator with a cartridge like the 60926 is the practical move. Cartridges are easy to get, and you’re far more likely to actually use it in a major industrial accident, which is what it’s designed for.

There are also smarter places on the hierarchy of controls for the average prepper to address CBRN hazards than PPE. In other words, don’t go somewhere people are getting nerve-gassed. That said, while the 60926 isn’t technically NIOSH-rated for CBRN, it’s still going to be better than nothing in a pinch.

Put it this way: there are far more realistic scenarios where a 60926 fits, and I can press it into service for an unlikely CBRN event if I absolutely had to. Being optimized for industrial hazards I might actually encounter matters more to me than being perfectly ready for a chemical attack I probably never will see. You can always buy both if you want, but a CBRN filter isn’t a magic super-filter, and it’s not really built for the everyday industrial hazards around us that a \~$10 60926 is made to handle.

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AnitaResPrep@reddit

The only + of a CBRN mask is the drinking device, for long term wear (as wildfire evacuation, chemical fire evacuation, etc.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

This is a very good point.

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CadetThrowAwaway@reddit

I can't see to the end of the block because it's so smoky It's still going to take a lot for me to grab a $200 CBRN one time use cartridge when a $1 N95 would do the job, when in real and the cabin air filter in my car is going to do the heavy lifting on filtration.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Since I am a civilian, it is irrelevant whether I can shoot with the mask on or not. Therefore, can you recommend the 3M 6800 with the NATO RD-40 filter?

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Sansui350A@reddit

6800's don't take RD40 filters bud. you need some xingzaixio daebo-daebo 3d-shitted assdapter to do THAT kinda crap with a 6800.. which.. A.. DON"T.. and B.. a 6800 is an ASSHOLE of a mask frankly.

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

Thanks for your answer.

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TruePrepper@reddit

The price difference between all CBRN/NBC hazards and most CBRN/NBC hazards is huge. The 3M 6800 with the right filters covers the most probable threats at a fraction of the price. The Avon M50/C50/FM50 is trusted for a reason, but is 6x the cost new. It will handle the much lower possibility of encountering blister chemical agents for more than a few minutes.

CBRN can be a money pit if you aren't careful. You would also need a MOPP or hazmat suit for some of these chemicals, chemtape, detection equipment, etc. Powered purifiers (PAPR) and supplied air (SCBA) can be needed for some CBRN situations, like ammonia clouds or oxygen-deficiencies.

If you're looking for full-face protection for most situations, just get a civilian mask (Again, I like the 3M), versatile filters, nitrile gloves, and a waterproof poncho.

I am a Hazmat technician, review all of this gear on my website, and taught MOPP/masks to thousands in the USAF (classroom & gas chamber).

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PerfectEqual3115@reddit (OP)

So, can you recommend the 3M 6800 with RD-40 filters to me? Did I understand that correctly?

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