ULPT Request: Would cloning license plates of a car like mine avoid automated license plate readers?

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Rachel_Silver@reddit

Police aren't what you need to worry about. It's the Parking Authority. They run both the plate and the the VIN.

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MaybeTheDoctor@reddit

Follow up question. Is it illegal to cover up you VIN?

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JustAnotherFNC@reddit

No, it isn't illegal to cover the VIN.

However you cannot alter or tamper with it.

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I would add a note of caution, though. If you put a piece of tape over it, you are inviting further interest. Don't make it obvious that you're hiding something; just make it look like you keep papers on your dashboard.

Just papers. You know... my papers... business papers.

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Canna_grower_VT14@reddit

Well, that’s just like your opinion, man.

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Rachel_Silver@reddit

Far out.

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TomatilloAccurate475@reddit

Look Larry, have you ever heard of Vietnam?

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todudeornote@reddit

Not rolling papers? I could just leave a bong there..

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Rachel_Silver@reddit

I AM ASKING THE QUESTIONS!

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Leptonshavenocolor@reddit

Not entirely true (so far as my experience) A car has multiple locations of the VIN. If you remove all of them in an attempt to commit some sort of fraud, that is illegal. But I've removed the door sticker one for cosmetics and that is legal (again, so far as I've been made to understand, standard IANAL caveat).

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Rachel_Silver@reddit

Yeah, I've skated by having a bunch of junk mail/unopened bills wedged in the crevice between the dashboard and the windshield.

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you-just-me@reddit

So many of them in Brooklyn just scan the VIN and wait for the machine to print the ticket.

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Humble_Ladder@reddit

If she gets into an accident with a VIN not matching the plate, they will basically treat it like a stolen car, even if the VIN comes back as hers, and if there is an unresolvable dispute about who caused the accident they will side against her for the simple fact that she's rocking a "stolen" plate.

Also, if she ever decides she hates your guts for some reason, good luck explaining that one to the toll collectors when she spends a day going back and forth over the Staten Island Bridge.

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magicmulder@reddit

Also she will lose whatever insurance she has and be 100% liable herself.

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Humble_Ladder@reddit

Nope, insurance is tied to the VIN, so if she has insurance, the plate trick wouldn't affect that.

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magicmulder@reddit

I was probably wrong to guess the laws of NY. Here in Germany you lose insurance if your car has forged plates (or the wrong ones).

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Humble_Ladder@reddit

Interesting difference.

In the US it's a thing for people to steal a plate with a paid up registration and put their expired plate on the vehicle they stole the plate from so the stolen plate is not immediately reported stolen (wrong plate is less noticeable than no plate).

If having the wrong plate was treated this harshly, it would lead to loss of coverage for a lot of people who are themselves victims, and US culture wouldn't tolerate this (it's pretty common for courts to set aside valid and enforceable exclusions given ANY excuse). As someone who works in US insurance claims, as long as the insurance was paid, we don't care a lot about the illegal things people try to tell us our customers are doing 9/10 times as long as they weren't intoxicated, driving offenses that directly caused the accident or road rage/intentionally ramming things.

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Leptonshavenocolor@reddit

There is a line between ULPT and just straight up being a criminal. And this blows rights past it.

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Regular_Promise3605@reddit

Your issue would be if you both used the cars at the same time and triggered anpr cameras in different places, it would get flagged as an impossible journey, and would get a marker added to both cars. At least in the UK that's what happens.

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arubait@reddit

I don't think it works like that. The data analysis is too much. The plate would have to be flagged to begin with. For some reason. Only then would two instances of the plate in different places be noticed.

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Regular_Promise3605@reddit

I can't speak for the US but in the UK it absolutely works like that. You have static ANPR cameras on roads and motorways, they ping to an officers car when either there is no insurance or there's an existing marker on the car. The data also gets fed to the DVLA, which is the DMV in the US, and they will use that to send out fines if your car is untaxed.

Part of that data is to monitor journey times, so they can use this data for road planning or traffic infrastructure. With that they can also ping for impossible journeys, as there is a problem with cloning plates in the UK. This will get a marker put on your car and you will be pulled over for a document check.

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arubait@reddit

Exactly. There needs to be a marker. If the cloned car has no marker and is taxed and insured it won't get flagged. Not every vehicle on Britains roads gets analysed for an impossible journey.

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Regular_Promise3605@reddit

You missed the point. If a plate gets detected for an impossible journey it will have a marker put on the car for a possible cloned plate. It's an automated process, no one is manually checking. Every plate gets stored for a certain amount of days.

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arubait@reddit

If I understand you correctly you are saying that every vehicle plate image taken on Britains roads gets automatically analysed for an impossible journey. That is currently an impossible computational load. What I am saying (and what I have been told by my mate who is a current police officer) is that the analysis is only done if that plate has a marker to begin with.

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Regular_Promise3605@reddit

You're not understanding it correctly. If a plate goes through an ANPR camera in London, then 10 minutes later that same plate goes through an ANPR camera in Newcastle a computer will automatically flag it. It's not a big computational load at all.

Think about how many pictures get uploaded to Instagram or Facebook they have to be scanned for nudity or inappropriate content. We're talking about the small bit of text data for the number plate getting processed for impossible journeys, not the picture.

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arubait@reddit

Perhaps I'm wrong and I misunderstood what I've been told. It's been known to happen! I'll double check what the guy said when I next speak with him.

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crash866@reddit

If the police do stop you and check the VIN now they will seize the fake plates and impound the vehicle costing you a lot more. Same as if you are parked some where and are getting a parking ticket.

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_robmillion_@reddit

Put the fake plates on the car with the matching Vin to invite less scrutiny. If all the numbers match, they are less likely to really look at the plates.

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gotterfly@reddit

Do they check the vin when they write a parking ticket? I haven't gotten a ticket in years, so I have no clue.

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mrkstr@reddit

They don't usually check VIN numbers in my jurisdiction.

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f1ve-Star@reddit

OP has two cars in NYC? Money would not seem to be an issue. Hell they may even have a dining room.

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andytagonist@reddit

I know plenty of regular working class families in NYC with two cars and a dining room. Both adults have blue collar jobs and he also owns a motorcycle. I also know plenty of dirt poor people in NYC struggling to get by and can barely afford one car and food on the table.

To be clear—“NYC” does not necessarily mean Upper West Side Manhattan. There’s plenty of poor areas in the other boroughs.

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f1ve-Star@reddit

Yeah Staten Island maybe has cars and shit. But my bad I guess I thought most people in the boroughs said what borough they lived in not NYC

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b0ingy@reddit

If you live far enough out in the boroughs cars are a lot more common

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MacintoshEddie@reddit

Never underestimate how much debt people are willing to take on to put up appearances. I knew a guy whose car payments were higher than his rent payments. He lived in an actual crack shack, he had to park like 4 blocks away.

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Awesomegcrow@reddit

Nah, most people in NYC ( I think USA in general) would pretend or looking like they're rich like OP. Having 2 cars but need to cheat/ break laws to afford it. That's ultimate unethical Life Pro Tip.

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standardtissue@reddit

This isn't merely unethical or "questionable legalisty" (per the sidebar). This is straight up clearly illegal.

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New-IncognitoWindow@reddit

You could save on insurance costs also, unless you crash into each other.

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superluig164@reddit

IF you do this, you'd better fake the VIN as well, and never park in the same area together. And hope you never both get into an accident at the same time or while the other car is being fixed from one.

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Mysterious_Winter164@reddit

...or crash into each other!

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superluig164@reddit

Aha, yeah. That would be a good one.

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Battle9876@reddit

I would only do that if you had two of the same cars...but you always keep one of them in the garage..you just swap plates every other month essentially have a car that last you twice as long...

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mike6545@reddit

I don’t understand how having the exact same plate on a different car would prevent you from getting a ticket.

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Comfortable_Guide622@reddit

Why? Go to the mall, find a car, same model, same color and borrow their front plates.

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rational_actor_nm@reddit

Why go to the dark web? Why not just 3d print and paint one?

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Kestrel_VI@reddit

Or just…buy new plates for your car and put them on the other one.

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mordecai98@reddit

There are people who have used fake plates with a starter reference, and so the person with the actual plates has tens of thousands of dollars in bills and fines to contest. So not good in the sense that someone else has to pay for it.

https://www.ksl.com/article/51204984/woman-blames-star-trek-license-plates-for-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars-in-accidental-tickets

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Kestrel_VI@reddit

A bit like that guy who changed his number plate to “NULL” to try and cheat ANPR and ended up getting every fine for cars that couldn’t be identified.

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RedactedSlur@reddit

What is the goal benefit for this situation? You really want a woman racking up traffic violations attached to your vehicle registration?

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Embarrassed_Flan_869@reddit

In theory, that would work with an automatic plate reader.

However, anything that involves registration or VIN you would be in a load of trouble.

I am not specifically aware of NY but in my state you have a registration sticker also on the plate. Without that, you could get pulled over and are very screwed

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KrisClem77@reddit

Registration sticker goes on the inside of the windshield. None on the plate itself in NY

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Embarrassed_Flan_869@reddit

Ok. It's on the plate in my state.

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Pertinent_Platypus@reddit

The VIN issues, sure. But they are talking about getting a fake license plate, I think they can figure out the sticker.

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philatio11@reddit

If you lived anywhere else in the US this might work. NYC is the one place where there is a huge concerted effort by the police to crack down on ghost plates due to this exact problem. They are 100% on the lookout for this every single day and when they catch you they impound the vehicle instantly. They have impounded almost 5000 cars since last year when they stepped up enforcement.

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