8TB spinner have been hovering around $150 for the last 7 years and I need someone to blame

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SGG@reddit

https://diskprices.com/ Others have already given reasons as to why pricing has not gone down. I use this site whenever I am looking to add on more drives to my storage. Make sure you are putting things into an appropriate size array/pool with at least 1 drive failure tolerance (preferably more).

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The_Band_Geek@reddit

Are there comparable sites for other components, namely RAM?

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Hoguw@reddit

I saw your comment last week and got that tickle to try and build this for some fun. This now exists: [https://www.ram-pricing.com/](https://www.ram-pricing.com/) Needs more work and mainly more products, I am working on it, but it is a start!

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The_Band_Geek@reddit

Very nice. It's got good bones, but as I'm sure you already know there's room for improvement.

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Hoguw@reddit

Yep agreed. This was half a days work to get something going and scratch the itch to start again on something.

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synack@reddit

[https://betterramprices.com](https://betterramprices.com) [https://www.monitorprices.org](https://www.monitorprices.org) [https://bestvaluegpu.com/](https://bestvaluegpu.com/) [https://gpupricecompare.com](https://gpupricecompare.com) [https://gpuquicklist.com](https://gpuquicklist.com) [https://cpuscout.com/](https://cpuscout.com/) [https://lowcostminipcs.com](https://lowcostminipcs.com) [https://psuprices.pages.dev](https://psuprices.pages.dev) [https://thinkprices.com/us](https://thinkprices.com/us) [https://routerprices.net/](https://routerprices.net/)

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A_Concerned_Viking@reddit

This is so valuable.

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The_Wkwied@reddit

I've used pcpartpicker for other components, but I haven't seen anything as through as diskprices

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WindowsVistaWzMyIdea@reddit

So good, now that price watcher is gone this is awesome

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victim_of_technology@reddit

I’m a pcpartspicker fan. I was excited to see something new but your link disappointed me. I said that I wanted a new solid state, I specified the size and form factor, and the top result was a used mechanical drive. On the positive side it was extremely fast and easy to use.

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Finn_Storm@reddit

Raid 0 go brrrrrrrrrr

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wideace99@reddit

The most of the world has shifted to SSD's mainly because of the need for speed.

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badhabitfml@reddit

And size. You can get ssd's that are 200+tb. Hdds aren't the most tb per Sq inch anymore.

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MairusuPawa@reddit

Can't wait for 18+Tb SATA ssds so I can just swap the spinning rust on my current home SAN without having to rebuild the entire hardware setup. Oh, who am I kidding, this will never happen. Not over SATA anyway.

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OurManInHavana@reddit

If you don't want to have to move to U.2/U.3... 12G SAS 15.36TB prices [look good](https://www.ebay.com/itm/127174710769?var=428274731625) (compared to say a pair of 8TB M.2s). And if you aren't already using SAS... HBAs are [cheap](https://www.ebay.com/itm/167809737659)!

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AnomalyNexus@reddit

>prices look good Not sure what I was expecting but 850 bucks wasn't it

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OurManInHavana@reddit

What price were you expecting for storage that sustains 1GBps+ throughput and tens-of-thousands of random IOPS? And that's just a SAS3 example: U.2 can be had for around the same price (sometimes less) and is faster! :) It's very expensive to get speed out of a solution built with HDDs: flash is a much better value. But yeah if you're just storing a Plex library: hard drives are fine.

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kuldan5853@reddit

I guess the point is that for a homelab/NAS I don't need any of that. To replace SATA HDDs in a QNAP/Synology NAS having SSDs with SATA3 interface that can deliver 300mb/s read/write would be more than enough. And yeah, having $850 instead of $850 per drive is obviously making a big difference for home use - in my case that's the difference between a $2000 and a $10000 nas.

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MairusuPawa@reddit

This, times 8 disks… ouch :D

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OurManInHavana@reddit

HDDs only look like a good value: if $/TB is your main criteria for the next couple years. If you need higher reliability+durability, or max capacity, or high density, or lower idle power draw, or faster throughput, or amazing iops... SSDs are already a great deal. And they're getting cheaper *faster* than HDDs are getting larger: so they'll eventually win in $/TB too. But HDDs will likely remain better at long-term+high-heat+no-power data retention. We'll end up treating them like random-access LTO For what a SSD can do: they're not expensive. But yeah if you're OK with a 10x failure rate, and low capacities, and slow throughput, and pitiful iops... using HDDs that currently are the best $/TB can make sense.

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kuldan5853@reddit

Yeah. I'd love to replace my 7x10tb spinners with SSDs, but getting them cheap enough and in sata.. will never happen.

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cab0lt@reddit

And power and failure predictability. If they survive the first 30 days, they’re going to work until the SMART data tells you to replace them. Failure outside of these conditions is _very_ rare and normal redundancy will catch that. Having a progress bar on when to replace them helps a lot with the maintenance of large arrays. Power management on SSDs can also be a lot more aggressive, since you don’t have to take mechanical wear and tear into account as much. If you have dense arrays with large data sets that aren’t frequently accessed, disks or parts of disks can easily be powered down by the controllers or firmware.

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gml1996@reddit

Those games are hardly relevant anymore, get on iRacer. /s

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AuroraFireflash@reddit

There's a minimum component cost for the circuit board, enclosure, materials with a small variable cost per platter or the density on the platters. Plus all the base costs (salary, plants, etc.) that have to get spread across the units. Volume is down, competition is down, therefore the price goes up.

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gramathy@reddit

Because demand for spinning rust is down, constructing supply of the secondhand enterprise market My array of secondhand 12T HGST drives is going strong. If you want to buy new you’re gonna pay a premium.

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free2game@reddit

I really hate the term spinning rust. Drive platters aren't made of steel.

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kaiserh808@reddit

No, they’re made of aluminium in 3.5” drives and glass in 2.5” drives – but they’re coated in iron oxide, aka rust

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KadahCoba@reddit

> glass in 2.5” drives I haven't seen glass platters in any almost 20 years. Pretty sure those were rather short lived.

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torbar203@reddit

the mini HP desktops we bought around 8 years ago had them(500 gig drives). Can't speak for anything newer than that since anything newer came with SSDs

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KadahCoba@reddit

I ended up with around 100 old mini HP desktop a few years ago, the ones that still had their OEM drives were almost all SHDD's, those weird hybrid HDD tech that have a small SDD cache. I think they were 500GB HDD and 4-8GB SSD. Non-glass platters too.

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torbar203@reddit

These ones I don’t believe were the hybrid drives

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KadahCoba@reddit

Hybrid drives were a short live tech before 256-500GB SSDs were economical. Those mini computers were the first and only time I've seen any of them in the wild. For shits and giggles, since I had around 40-50 of the same model drive, I made a ZFS array out of them. It was disappointing. xD

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kaiserh808@reddit

Not at all. Every single 2.5" HDD I've had to destroy has had glass platters. I know this because I take the drive out of the machine and then give it one solid whack with a hammer in the platter area, and it then sounds like a child's rattle. Ain't no-one ever getting any data back from the drive after that. I literally destroyed a handful of 2.5" drives last week. These drives were all around 5-6 years old, and they all had glass platters in them.

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KadahCoba@reddit

Huh. Didn't know they were still being made. I've had a few dozen I've torn down over the last couple decades from servers, laptops and sff desktops, all were non-glass. The only mythical glass platters I've ever seen was way back at an old job, I think it was a co-workers laptop that had shattered. All the fail 2.5" drives work had were non-glass. A friend back then always talked about how common and failure prone those were whenever laptops drives were mentioned, but he could never find one to show me. He'd think he finally found one, we're tear it down to film shattering it, and it wouldn't be glass. xD

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SteveJEO@reddit

You gotta give them credit though. When they failed they failed unambiguously.

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ratshack@reddit

*shakes Deathstar…”Ahh, the return to sand”*

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JJaska@reddit

Iron oxide on drive platters haven't been a thing in quite a while if I understand correctly. That is the "original tech" that was improved over the years.

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Mothringer@reddit

>Never heard of that phrase before... Spinning rust is a longstanding term that the tech media has used ever since SSDs took over the bulk of the market a decade or so ago. The strict technical accuracy for modern drives isn’t there, but that’s not really a thing you should expect from derogatory colloquialisms.

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gramathy@reddit

I've never used the term "spinning rust" as a negative, it's just an informal way to refer to HDDs.

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hughk@reddit

Is it really derogatory? I have SSDs in my computers but spinning rust in my NAS. It may no longer be so accurate but spinning rust has a long history in computing.for persistent but fast storage.

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Irverter@reddit

> Is it really derogatory? Yes. It is derogative because it's used derogatively. No matter technical accuracy, usefulness nor anything else.

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hughk@reddit

Frankly, I don't worry. When you have had to live with drives back in the early days, you really knew that your drives were as good as the last backup. In the days of exchangeable disks you learned about head crashes, the hard way. I still have what was spinning rust somewhere with a nice house where the magnetic layer was kissed away.

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da_chicken@reddit

Eh, the common term has typically been spinning *metal*. Spinning rust only started to get popular when SSDs stopped being edgetech.

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JJaska@reddit

Ah, explains why I had not heard of it. Thanks.

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billdietrich1@reddit

Alloys of cobalt, or cobalt and iron, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_platter

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Irverter@reddit

> Drive platters aren't made of steel. Doesn't need to be steel. Any metal will rust in time.

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free2game@reddit

I've never seen any be rusty when taking them apart or heard of it. They're vacuum sealed to the point where rust couldn't develop under any extended life span either. SSDs have metal parts and soldered pieces but we don't call them "sitting rust".

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mnvoronin@reddit

Not any metal will. Gold doesn't react with oxygen at all. Even though gold (III) oxide exists, it can only be produced by dehydrogenating the gold hydroxide. /nitpick mode off

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idgarad@reddit

U.2 transition is leaving spinning rust a legacy piece of infrastructure so they can milk those that can't handle the cost of a full flip to U.2 and NVME tech. Literally "We need faster and better capacity, but the cost of transitioning to NVME is X, but we can expand our existing 2.5 or 3.5 drives for another 2 years for X-1 and then it looks like I am saving money... 3 years later then we can do the flip for X. "But sir aren't you just paying 2x-1 in the end?" "Not according to my quarterly bonus! Ohh look a new job before those 2 years come up!"

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DreadStarX@reddit

Are you buying used or new? At that size, i would buy used over new. You can expand your array faster and have spare drives on the shelf for cold spares.

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Imobia@reddit

This and the volume for hdd is down in the consumer market. SSD are easily cheap enough in the 512/1024gb for NVME. That’s what most consumers get. So where is the market for HDD? Larger vendors such as NetApp are starting to phase out HDD also.

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badhabitfml@reddit

Yeah. You wouldn't put a hdd in a pc these days. Servers are moving to ssd for faster and larger storage. The market for hdds is shrinking. Hdd's max out at 36tb,but you can get ssd's over 200tb. They are very expensive, but they exist.

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MSgtGunny@reddit

For consumer usage, $/TB is still very important.

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TwiceUponATaco@reddit

But most consumers aren't buying a full TB so the total cost is still lower

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

Sub 1TB SSDs haven't made sense for a few years now. They are like 80% of cost of a 1TB, which themselves are about 70% of cost of 2TB.

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Irverter@reddit

> Sub 1TB SSDs haven't made sense for a few years now All the laptops sold with sub 1TB SSDs disagree.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

That is just manufacturers being cheap and stupid. They make a lot more when they sell you a larger SSD than you would yourself buying aftermarket.

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maxloo2@reddit

I think a lot of people don't actually need that much storage, me and my friends are all gamers or computer nerds, so I also wondered how people could survive with such little storage in their computer, but once I actually work with non-tech people, a lot of them don't actually need that much storage, and I am specifically talking about the casual market. Even gamers, a lot of them just buy a computer and they know nothing about computer hardware, if they don't have enough space they just uninstall old games...

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badhabitfml@reddit

I would bet most people install a browser and that's it. You can do most everything now without downloading or installing anything.

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maxloo2@reddit

true. most people dont know what they need because they dont really need anything nuch more than what is capable on a mobile phone nowadays.

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badhabitfml@reddit

I'm sure there are millions of people buying nice new MacBook pro's that only run safari.

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fresh-dork@reddit

sure, but if $40 gets you to a tb and another $40 get you to 2T, why not?

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maxloo2@reddit

because money isnt infinite. or is it just an asian thing?

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TwiceUponATaco@reddit

A vast majority of consumers aren't going to be using a full 1TB disk though so it's still cheaper overall to buy a smaller disk even if the price per TB isn't as good.

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uptimefordays@reddit

Shoot I'm not using anywhere near a full Tb, the machine I'm typing this on is using 70 of 494Gb available.

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agoia@reddit

Unless you are buying enterprise equipment and everything should be cloud storage anyways.

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HeKis4@reddit

Until pretty recently 512GB was the golden middle for $/TB, but yeah today you're right. 2 TB is even cheaper in $/TB, it's just that too few people need it to be the mainstream option.

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Rolex_throwaway@reddit

Very few consumers are willing to tolerate how slow an HDD is, so manufacturers are phasing them out. Only the very small enthusiast market is going to be looking at $/TB in the first place.

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uptimefordays@reddit

Is it? Most consumers have laptops with somewhere between 256 and 512Gb of storage with 1Tb becoming more common. In a world of ubiquitous cloud storage, local storage is becoming niche.

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MSgtGunny@reddit

That’s a different argument. You’re saying most consumers don’t need a lot of local storage and you’re correct. The original statement was regarding those consumers who do need/want a lot of local storage, and for them $/TB is a large concern. A quick glance at server parts deals has a 15tb ssd at 8-12x the cost per terabyte of a similarly sized hdd.

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surveysaysno@reddit

>The market for hdds is shrinking. I'd argue it's changing not shrinking. * No one sane is putting archive data on SSD * tape is legitimately being phased out * HDDs are about half way through being phased out as primary storage to solely secondary storage We're going to have spinning rust for the next 10 years, just for low SLA, cold blocks, backups, or geographic redundancy.

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Superb_Raccoon@reddit

Tape is not getting phased out at all. It is getting hidden behind S3 in a lot of cases. The CAGR (growth rate) is 7.8%.

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badhabitfml@reddit

My company shut down some old servers and didn't give people the time or resources to really dig through it. I archived out stuff I knew was important but the rest? Oh well gone now. Nobody left at the company who knew about it anyway. I guess the software licenses were getting expensive and our cfo has to show some profits to shareholders. Funny thing is that we're going through some stuff now and reinventing the wheel to track it. We did the same thing 5and 10 years ago, but just turned off this servers that had the info on how we did it then.

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mh699@reddit

\>Larger vendors such as NetApp are starting to phase out HDD also Source? As a NetApp customer with a large-ish FAS HDD cluster I haven't heard anything to this effect

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BoringLime@reddit

Demand for spinning rust has plummeted, which makes every drive more expensive to build. 7 years ago all low-end to middle of the road computers and businesses and consumers were using hdds . Data centers still used them, but were already shifting. Now, lower end up and up pcs are SSD to nvme and have been for the 4-5 years. Data centers use only a small fraction of spinning rust, they used too. Businesses will pay the upcharge for SSD/nvme for more iops. My last two sans were 100% ssd, and if we still had a colo our third would be too, basically a 12 year window. Back in the day we would have to buy a massive extra number of spinning rust drives to reach our iops goals. Each hdd was around 120-180 iops. You no longer have to do that waste with ssd and nvme. Result is a mature market for niche usage, which doesn't bold well for lower prices. Now even large public clouds are starting to completely sunset hdd, as they aren't being used by the end users. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/disks-hdd-os-retirement

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mh699@reddit

They're phasing out HDDs for VMs. They are NOT phasing out HDDs for Azure Blob

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BoringLime@reddit

True, most likely because they have a pile of previously used VM hdds to use. But I expect it will eventually be phase out too at some point.

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Humble_Bumblebee_418@reddit

They're phasing out tapes for cold storage, these will likely be replaced with hdds

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BoringLime@reddit

I definitely could see that. Just keep the slow restore sla from the cold. Then you don't have to worry about hdd poor queuing and iops over millions of users. Which requires you to over build by huge factors.

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mh699@reddit

No way, not unless the cost of flash comes way down. If there's no need for SSD level performance, and MSFT explicitly markets only the hot tier as having SSD level performance, it's simply cost prohibitive to roll out flash everywhere. I have a cluster that's >100PB sitting on HDDs. It would be ridiculously expensive to build a comparable cluster on flash.

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StaticFanatic3@reddit

The tech hasn't progressed nearly as much in recent years as the enterprise has moved largely to solid state The efficiencies and cost savings that have been found have been have been outpaced by inflation and tariffs I can give you someone to blame for that last part

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DrStalker@reddit

> I can give you someone to blame for that last part Thanks Obama. /s

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UltimateAntic@reddit

Thanks Mark Rutte /s

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FullPoet@reddit

Thanks VDL /s

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ASmootyOperator@reddit

Thanks Harambe?

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cccanterbury@reddit

fantastic conspiracy theory

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OptimalCynic@reddit

My favourite conspiracy theory is that Harambe was the vacation shell of a vengeful and powerful eldritch being. Who has the same feeling towards humanity that you would towards someone who blew up your relaxing mountain retreat halfway through your retirement getaway.

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Beardedcomputernerd@reddit

Why the /s :-p

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WheresMyBrakes@reddit

Dude it was clearly Kim Jong-un’s fault.

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demalo@reddit

We say this sarcastically, but maybe we really can blame him for comments he made. However, it is a bit like blaming the victim…

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iama_bad_person@reddit

> tariffs I live in New Zealand and 8TB prices have remained relatively steady.

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Disastrous-Move7251@reddit

Nobody cares about your country so nobody's gonna offer discounts. Probably the importer of electronics in your tiny ass country is just making more money.

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mnvoronin@reddit

Did you feel your dick grow a little after posting this rude-ass comment?

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hackersarchangel@reddit

Rude. How on earth can we ever get to a Star Trek TNG utopia if we act like this? No wonder the Vulcans haven’t dropped in yet.

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Disastrous-Move7251@reddit

I'm not agreeing with what's happening

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Time_Turner@reddit

It's still refined metal, precision machined, incorporating rare metals, and no longer the cutting edge. Like >24nm processors are still just about as expensive as they have ever been. COVID did a number on it, but even then some things are just hard to make, no way around it. Technology advances aren't making them any cheaper any time soon.

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Cmdr_Zod@reddit

Also, 8TB is at the upper end for air filled drives (10TB seems to the maximum). Go higher, and you are filling your drives with helium. This is where the development is happening. Most drives go to hyper scalers nowadays, they want maximum capacity per drive/power consumption, this means helium, and there is little incentive for manufacturers to optimize lower capacity drives without a lot of demand in the market. I am not sure if the newest enhancements in density can be applied to air filled drives, and if the reduction in platters from higher density would compensate for the higher complexity of the newer technology.

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Irverter@reddit

Why do higher density drives have to be filled with helium?

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sarosan@reddit

Helium is lighter than air. This allows the platters to spin with less friction.

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msalerno1965@reddit

And probably affects head flying height. Bernoulli is god...

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FamiliarRip8558@reddit

https://www.techradar.com/pro/toshiba-plans-40tb-hdd-in-2027-with-12-platters-but-i-fear-it-is-way-too-little-way-too-late Lmfao They are always trying to shove more into less. It's just a lot easier currently to advance SSD technology than it has been to advance magnetic disk technology.

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MSgtGunny@reddit

Yeah that is essentially a fixed minimum cost for a hdd that doesn’t change much as capacity goes up, I s one of the reasons that $/TB is better at higher capacities, that fixed cost is amortized over more capacity.

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DisplacerBeastMode@reddit

Wait my "centrist" friend assured me he's never been doing better under the current regime

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sybrwookie@reddit

Yea, it's funny how they're no longer complaining about grocery prices which are higher now.

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torreneastoria@reddit

Oh its my fault. I didn't do it. But I don't care, blame me.

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Newbosterone@reddit

Because R&D investments in magnetic media are being shifted to semiconductor storage?

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hackersarchangel@reddit

IF you are willing to get refurbished, the HGST (I forget the newer name for them) or MDD’s are solid units. I have 5 total, and each have suffered under a full thrashing of SpinRite level 5 before entering service. I can get a 14TB for about $160 through Amazon. Considering that when it comes time to actually upgrade my current local array, I will significantly increase my storage capacity.

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FALSE_PROTAGONIST@reddit

I have one, they seem way noisier than my WD drives, red blue and gold

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BrightCandle@reddit

We are nearly at the point where over the expected lifetime of drives an SSD is about the same price as a hard drive. While the TB/$ is worse in SSDs today in practice they are expected to last quite a bit longer, whereas a hard drive you can expect to need to replace it in about 5 years time, its done well if it survives 7 years. SSDs should be good for 10 years if not more. its worth keeping that in mind when you look at the prices and calculate the cost of a certain amount of storage because at some point its going to be clear that SSDs are per year going to be cheaper due to power saving and longer life.

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Unboxious@reddit

Because the hyper-rich bastards running the world's corporations have conspired to keep employee pay down?

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PricePerGig@reddit

Don't forget to check out https://pricepergig.com as it covers eBay and Amazon. eBay with best offer filter helps finding where you can haggle. As for why it's so expensive. You could argue USA is just catching up with the over inflated prices of Europe?

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InformalBasil@reddit

>8TB spinner have been hovering around $150 for the last 7 years While this is true, [$150 today is approximately $116 in 2018 dollars.](https://imgur.com/a/v0DoOYi) The vast majority of things are selling for far more than their 2018 price.

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Subnetwork@reddit

Keep waiting on solid state memory to keep dropping, it’s what I’m doing.

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waxwayne@reddit

Innovation is dead.

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Britzer@reddit

Spinning rust has flattened out completely in price for more than five years now. Which still feels absolutely weird for old farts like me, considering how prices kept falling and storage space going up so fast in the 1990s and 2000s. Now SSDs went up considerably in price since their lowest point at the end of 2023. Shit's wild in storage.

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Ballaholic09@reddit

2 years ago you could purchase used data center drives with 12TB for $70. Those same drives have more than doubled in price in the past 2 years. I say that because prices haven’t flatlined, but they sure are ballooning.

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spacelama@reddit

Every idiot enterprise sysadmin thinks the only data destruction is a drill through the platters. We destroyed a few thousand disks last month. The guys didn't didn't know which data destruction business were going to be hired, and our contract would come to an end before it was decided. None of our system was remotely sensitive, but I took a day to polish my data destruction script so it ran over them all. But our guys still insisted we would hire someone to give us certificates that the drives had all been crushed. Which would detract from our hardware resale contract by about $10,000 or more, but it made them happy so...

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mexell@reddit

External key management and self encrypting drives are totally a thing. Done correctly, you can wheel an entire storage system out of the data center and it would be completely useless to the thief, all without shredders, drill presses or questionable deletion scripts.

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ZorbaTHut@reddit

Done incorrectly, and you *think* it will be completely useless to the thief, but then you're getting raked over in the news and subject to massive fines for distributing personal information. Maybe just shred the drives instead.

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mexell@reddit

Well, it’s audit, quantify, and accept that risk or pay the “keep you hard drive” fee.

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ZorbaTHut@reddit

Yeah, and I think most companies are going to find it's not worth trying to preserve the hard drives, it's easier and safer just to destroy 'em.

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lilpokemon@reddit

Isn’t it more of a liability thing?

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wutanglan90@reddit

Yes it's exactly that. But why should businesses care about liability when spacelama has "polished" his super duper destruction script. Businesses just aren't on his level and don't understand his genius.

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BananaSacks@reddit

Take the money and buy some LRCX. Non-spinners are about to get more expensive, methinks.

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brispower@reddit

when prices don't go up they are actually going down....

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360jones@reddit

I have a confession. I’m obsessed with 8TB SAS drives, I get them for about £25 each. Am I making a mistake here

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Yolo_Swagginson@reddit

Where are you buying them for that price?

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360jones@reddit

eBay mainly and Vinted. Typical price is about £60 but combine offers with discount codes or 8% off emergency workers discount can get you them very cheap

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fcewen00@reddit

I saw Newegg selling 24TB for 250. Now, we’re not talking about WD RedS, but still.

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No_Resolution_9252@reddit

blame yourself for continuing to use ssd.

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msg7086@reddit

If 8TB is expensive, maybe don't buy that small size? Plenty of other options.

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dracotrapnet@reddit

AI is supposedly gorging on all types of storage.

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Zirown@reddit

Don't they have a habit of setting fire to or flooding the factories any time the prices sinks too low? Or is that just for DRAM and NAND storage?

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fozzy99999@reddit

14 is my price point and was hoping to get larger by the time I needed to bump up to a larger size. I have space for an addl controller and thus 8 new channels that are starting to make sense to grow drive vs my fifo drive expansion I started 8 years ago. I would have hopes to have a 100T spinner by now based on expansion. I’m at 14x7 + 1x8 and would love to get 3 40-50 spinners and fifo ther for the next 8 years. All olds go to external backup offline.

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