80/20 mix. Most people preordering will choose EREV, but I suspect when it’s actually in production it will be more of a 60/40 or 50/50 split. Also depends how well the EREV works and if the engine is simple and easy to work on. If it’s going to be a PITA to do oil changes, spark plugs, timing chain, etc. it will likely end up being less and less the split. Nobody wants an engine that costs $5K to replace spark plugs on.
Good, hopefully other auto makers take note, would have absolutely bought an F150 lightning if it had an ICE range extender.
It's not that people like myself don't want electric trucks, it's that the towing range is unacceptable and they can't stop to charge with a trailer connected at pretty much any charge station. I would LOVE to have all the torque and regen benefits of electric and go battery only on my 120 mile a day commute to work but on the flip side I do two to three 600 mile trips per month towing 9000lbs with often no charge stations on the route at all, no battery only truck on the market could do that and for any time I'm towing I need to use pull thru gas stations because our EV infrastructure isn't there yet and charging every 70 to 100 miles towing is not a realistic ask.
How so? I have a garage with it's own dedicated 200A service already and can charge each night, I own two electric motorcycles and an electric ATV, I personally love electric vehicles.
My daily 120 mile commute is roughly 21900 miles per year that *could* be covered 100% on battery power. I'd assume this setup is quite literally perfect for me?
Why do you say that? I am in the same exact boat, but a little less frequent long trips. I would say we are the exact market for scout because we have consistent distance we travel on a regular basis that would be covered by the standard range with a home charger setup. Once in a while, we'd use that on board generator that can easily be filled up at a gas station or gas cans *when needed*.
Typically educated people purchase EVs. Typically Educated people don’t live 60 miles away from where they work. It’s a monumental waste of time / money.
Maybe you do the math? I make 190k/y, work 182 days a year and deliberately live 60 miles away so I can live in a lower tax state than my employer and live in a lower cost of living city that has better amenities and lower crime.
Don't hold yourself back from living a better life by being afraid to commute a couple hours a day.
As long as I can sit in one that’s themed for the school I went to 20 years ago and watch fresh adults get concussions to try and hopefully make money to live.
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A guy with a Toyota Prius decided to do that a few years ago: https://thebolditalic.com/hacked-prius-running-on-muni-power-lines-the-bold-italic-san-francisco-80cdbe55d68e
I mean, given Scout's connection with VW and Rivian, wouldn't most folks who want a similar, pure EV just buy a Rivian? The Scouts even look like reskinned Rivians. It just makes sense that most of their reservations are for a type of truck/SUV that doesn't already exist.
Scout is looking to be an EV Jeep and a lifestyle brand with accessories being a big focus too.
Rivian has actually well performing products and is basically handling a lot of Scouts' stuff too.
All the Rivian frame engineers mention Rivian basically having a "banana frame" and how it's poorly engineered...
Two of them own Bronco Sports so I can't say they make good decisions.
Scouts and Rivians may look similar but they are completely different underneath. Scout is using its own chassis and the Terra truck is much larger than an R1T
Sure, but what would be the specific appeal of the Scout EV that someone couldn’t already get with a currently available EV, be it a Rivian or otherwise?
I mean it’s just a different choice. Some people might be drawn to the looks or name or whatever. And besides the Hummer EV, there isn’t really a hardcore large off-road focused EV out there. They are bigger and burlier than the Rivians, ford lightning, etc.
I imagine the biggest draw will be the fact that it’s offered as an EREV though
Yup. And I'll bet that by the time it comes to market the Scout EV will be about the same or not really all that much less, anyway. The new Rivian R2 and R3 *should* undercut Scout's projected pricing, though. But I don't think that pricing is the issue when it comes to premium trucks and SUV's. I don't there are a ton of people who need an EV truck that are scared off of a $100k vehicle, but are totally cool with a *maybe* $60k-ish (base price!) vehicle. It still isn't cheap.
I'm all for EV,'s but I feel like there have been a lot of broken promises and misreadings of the market in the EV space. The Cybertruck fell far short of pretty much every single metric. Then there's the Tesla roadster vaporware situation. Fisker immediately failed AGAIN. Most legacy manufacturers are rethinking their EV approach.
I think for the market to get really excited for a new EV, it's probably going to have to be available and proven to be what it says that it is.
EV's work great for specific tasks (commuting), for specific consumers in specific living situations (ie- home charging). By contrast, the extended range Scout is probably the closest thing to an electric vehicle with broad use case, while the full EV is just another EV in a field of already available EV's. It makes sense that that the extended range one is that one that people are more excited about.
While PHEV's do exist, I do think that an EV with gas extended range feels more appealing than a gas car that you have to plug in regularly to see any benefit.
You said who need an ev truck. Only people who *need* ev truck are people working on job sites that mandate one, if those exist yet. Personally I don’t want a full size and I’m not unhooking my tailor to back into chargers every 100 miles, but if they make an extended miss size I’d consider it. Though I’m sure they care a ton about my one possible purchase lol
It's wild knowing how slow the supply chain is adapting and how the contractors are being sued about the facility.
This is likely to be a giant flop when it comes to production but VW taking Rivian to have them work on the prototype to re-design the electrical system gives me hope.
Their drivers testing a lot in Laurens and their engineers trying to get a low roll resistance K03 is hilarious though
The range extender is completely unique in the market. There have already been 3 major EV truck releases. Anyone wanting a normal EV truck has probably already bought one.
Gas-electric and Diesel-electric drivetrains are less efficient than mechanical drive trains. PHEV and EREV vehicles will actually be less efficient than their ICE counterparts unless people plug them in to get the majority of the battery charge.
Regenerative braking really helps close that efficiency gap; the ICE only really gets an efficiency advantage on flat, fast, uninterrupted highway cruising.
I live somewhere with plenty of flat, fast, straight highway cruising. I love not having to worry about range falling off when I go 85+.
But the majority of my driving is two mile trips to the grocery or daycare - I'm getting like 14 mpg and I'm sure an electric drivetrain would save me loads of gas.
Most people bought the pure BEV version of the i3, that's why they discontinued the REX at some point. But the i3 was a small city car, a REX makes more sense on a big truck.
That’s not true at all. They were expensive to make but bmw made money on every one sold. It was successful in its segment, won awards, gave them development benefits for their next EVs and ultimately brought them lots of new customers (and awards).
I suspect it was killed off because of internal political differences of opinion over their longer term ev strategy.
BMW thought the next big production method for electric cars will be going superlight weight to compensate battery weights. That’s why the i3 and i8 were like carbon fiber ultra light weight materials everywhere. BMW invested in their own production facilities for carbon parts big time.
I liked their approach also better. But the market moved somewhere else and was more accepting of heavier vehicles. Also repairs were very expensive because of carbon fiber. So the i3 approach didn’t make sense anymore.
Just like Mercedes who designed the original A class with a sandwich floor construction to house a battery for an EV version. No interest from dealers so it never happened.
It was a completly stupid idea. It used as much energy at 90 km/h than a Model 3 did at 120 km/h.
BMW should have known that any customer would have a overnight place to plug-it in anyway and that the only time one needed range was when one makes road trips at higher speeds.
Yeah range extender barely makes sense unless one lives remote. There is a reason why it completely disappeared from the euro market more or less. Just like battery swapping and battery renting schemes. It was the phase of testing out what the markets wants.
i think with the Scout it will be similiar. First gen a lot of buyers will take the range extender. And in the second gen few will care.
It's the exact opposite. It was designed as a city car for especially European cities and makes complete sense that way. Small, light car that you use around the city where speeds are low and distances are short. No need for big range, you charge it up every day at home, but if you need to go further out you can.
Same as the Opel/Vauxhall Ampera.
The i3 was objectively a success. It sold well, won awards and customer satisfaction was high.
Big part of why they died was because people didn't understand them. They thought they were the same as regular (parallel) hybrids and people didn't understand that they were meant to be plugged in as an EV.
Many of the EV incentives also weren't available for it. It was grouped in with hybrids with no or very low EV range, whereas it was much more like a BEV in every day use.
Which begs the question, what's wrong with everyone else? Less than 20% of people who buy pickups need them to be gas, for various reasons. Seems like America is stuck in the past, in more ways than one.
I bought a gas truck about 6 months ago, I'll tell you why i didn't go with an EV. Because they are way too expensive. I bought a Maverick Lariat with basically every option available and out the door it was $37k. The equivalent F150 lightening was $55k. Let's be unbelievably generous and say it would be literally free to charge the F150, even then I will not ever burn $18,000 in gas through the life of the vehicle. Beng an EV does nothing but cost me more money for no benefits.
TBF that’s not an apples to apples comparison. If you were in the market for an F150-sized vehicle, where the cost difference to go EV is negligible, would you have done it?
I think it's absolutely an apples to apples comparison. The F150 is a little bigger with a little more towing capacity but they're both smallish pick ups. Something like an electric Ranger would be better comparison but that doesn't exist yet. I wouldn't go with a pure by electric vehicle, I would absolutely go with a hybrid but I just couldn't find a hybrid Maverick with the options and trim I wanted.
The US hasn't done much to facilitate a change to EV's so as a result,they are still mostly luxury items. The charging network is still far too small. It doesn't help that the economy is awful.
It's not completely unique, the Ramcharger (now called Ram REV I think) was announced first and will probably be sold first (but you know, Stellantis).
I think it's mostly the production and market aspect. If the Dems win the last election and extend the subsidies I'm betting the REV is still on the way and this thing is still called a Ramcharger.
How great is Stellantis, right? They made a version of a RAM that can literally charge itself from its own built-in generator, and they call it the Ramcharger. Sounds excellent. Then they unveil a full EV RAM concept called the Revolution, and then a little while later unveil a fully production ready that is so finished that a [Matchbox toy is even made of it,](https://matchbox.fandom.com/wiki/2025_Ram_1500_REV) and name it REV. And then after all of that they cancel the fully-EV truck outright and rename the brilliantly named Ramcharger to REV, the name they had already used for the now-cancelled EV. I'm sure that won't be confusing to anyone.
Sort of. The big difference is that a range extender cannot drive the wheels, but a hybrid can. Honda's hybrid system usually uses the engine just to generate electricity for the motors, but it can also connect to the output shaft at higher speeds.
https://global.honda/en/tech/two_motor_hybrid_system_honda_eHEV/
>During high-speed cruising, which requires less
driving force, engine drive mode is more efficient
than running the motor at high speed. Engine
output is directly connected to the driveshaft to
reduce power loss.
Most of the time, the engine won't be connected to three wheels.
Which is debatable in and of itself. The Volt famously had one mode that connected the engine to the wheels at highway speeds only, in hybrid mode (mode 4). But only because that's the most efficient way to do it.
This mode however, disqualified it from being a BEV w/ range extender.
Absolutely, I wonder how the RAM will do (if it ever comes out).
I think a truck with a ~50mi electric range would be amazing in saving fuel and cutting emissions. The RAM is kind of excessive with over 100mi, but I'm sure some people are into that too
Yeah. Sadly the Ram range extender has been teased for years and still isn't available. Its also made by Stellantis so you're looking at a brand new and complicated powertrain built by a company with tha absolute worst track record for reliability over the last few decades. Great idea, but seems like a huge risk to be one of the first in line.
Range extender electrical generation makes so much sense for work, not just in miles but in portable power supply. Also its a great design, seems a no nonsense approach that will appeal to a lot of people. It would be difficult to choose all electric version over utility of having an on board generator.
Many BEVs have significant on-board power too. But yes there are definitely situations where this scout design is going to be significantly better like overlanding, towing, or situations like working in disaster zones.
I do wonder about price. All things equal, the range extender should probably end up costing $5-6k more than the BEV by the time Scout hits the market. In a higher end offroad SUV and Pickup i can see a lot of people opting for this extra expense. I'm still somewhat skeptical that most people in most segments will find enough value to justify the cost and extra maintenance of a range extender over a BEV or conventional hybrid.
If you look at the prius PHEV is about $5k more than the regular prius and about $4k more than the new Nissan Leaf with 300 miles of range. If you want a compact daily driver the regular prius or Leaf seem to make more sense than the PHEV for most people.
They won’t find value in it after they buy it. They will still buy it just like people buy vehicles far larger and more expensive that they need. Auto manufacturers need to work to make innovative range extenders. There are a number of startup companies working on linear and other smaller, lighter engines just for generating electricity rather than an off the shelf 4 cylinder that’s built to carry the load of the vehicle.
EREV has been a big idea for at least 15 years. The [Jaguar C-X75](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75) concept packed two multifuel microturbines. Wankel rotary has been mooted, but those have emissions issues; I bet the microturbines did, too. There was a time in the 1980s when lightweight two-stroke engines looked like they might come to cars, and come back generally (*cf.* [Orbital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarich_orbital_engine)) but -- tell me if you see a pattern here -- noncompliant emissions.
Edison in Canada [recently had a big problem trying to use a diesel engine that wasn't originally homologated for road use](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bzTacdlpR8), because emissions.
The point is to never underestimate the consequences of government safety and emissions requirements. That's why everything is using existing automobile engines, not even motorcycle engines.
> just never in NA for some reason
Pure engine power generation to a motor to the wheels is great at low speeds but efficiency is worse than a direct engine–wheels connection at higher speeds. Nissan's system works well in Japan/Europe because their driving is heavily biased toward low speed situations, but it wouldn't work well in North America. Honda's hybrids get around this with a direct drive to the gas engine above certain speeds, the Chevy Volt did this too.
> Wankel rotary has been mooted, but those have emissions issues
not true anymore. Mazda released a variant of the MX-30 with a rotary range extender and it passes current EU emissions regs.
There's also that turbine hybrid electric truck retrofitter out of California, doing fleet vehicles. Wrightspeed?
Oh... I guess they gave up on turbines and are doing electric conversions now. :(
The disaster zone thing always confuses me. Gas station almost always run out during disasters, and if the electricity is out, the pumps don’t work either. People would really rather sit in line for hours hoping they get some before it runs out than just plug it in when the electricity comes back on?
The solar on my house can generate 100 miles worth of electricity in a day. In California our disasters are fire and earthquakes - unless my house is about to burn down, I’m not going anywhere, especially if the electricity is out. The battery in the Ioniq will also run my fridge and all our devices for over a week even without solar.
If a disaster got bad enough that all the power was out, your solar panels are not going to be generating shit my man.
A serious Hurricane or Tornado is going to basically destroy your solar panels then your options left are just a generator.
> I’m leaving anyway
That's the entire premise! You better hope your batteries are fully charged and that you can get out of the disaster area on a single charge.
The beautiful part of it is you get extended range in stop and go traffic. Rather than the opposite in gas vehicles so you’ll get more than your normal range.
Sarcasm? If my roof is fucked the last thing I will do is leave, I have to fix that shit. Most of the time the roof will be mostly fine but stuff will fly and hit it. Shingles can take tree limbs much better than solar panels can.
not sarcasm, the people arguing with you all just seem to be speculatively talking shit in a vacuum, whereas you clearly have at least a bit of first-hand experience working this out for your own solar installation
this thread is like a poster child for why reddit is dogshit for learning anything
Literally went through both Irma and Ian (Cat 4 and 3 respectively) in Naples FL and our solar panels did just fine along with our generator, we lost 50 trees during Irma and had to clear our driveway of fallen trees before we could get out. What an absolute load of BS. I have videos of our beautiful garden showing the damage and the house and solar panels were just fine.
I'm about to get an Enphase system so I can go off grid and charge here in central Texas.
Yeh a serious Tornado is going to destroy not just the solar, but the house, cars, generator, electrical infrastructure.
I'm in Georgia, in a place where hurricanes are a real threat. I typically wouldn't leave after one, power or not. You have to have a roof full of solar to get enough power to move 100 miles. Solar power is still not efficient enough for a real load like an electric car. I like solar, but we can't pretend it's just loads of free power when it's really just a trickle charge in the grand scheme of things.
My parents house in Scotland (extremely far North) can generate 33kWh per day in summer from a relatively small 4kW solar array. Here in Texas I could probably hit 45kWh from the same sized array.
Plus how often am I needing more than that to drive with every single day?
A roof full of solar isn’t hard to achieve.. My 16 panels generate 30min kWh on a sunny day. At a conservative 3mi/kwh that’s 90 miles in my Ioniq 5. The system paid for itself in 3 years, and now I get to drive and run a/c as much as I want with no electricity bill.
I also lived in upstate SC for a decade and have very close friends who were trapped in their houses for a week after helene, until they were able to chainsaw their way out. Guess what else solar can charge? 😅
solar panels, wind turbines, bicycle with an alternator and belt. generating electricity is simple. generating a lot can be difficult, but if you just need enough to drive 80 miles to a safer location or something, it can be done
Solar panels goes into the category of generator and realistically don't produce much power . Wind turbines and using a bicycle are impractical though. The bicycle will not generate enough energy to be worth anything and those little wind turbines are worthless at best. After a big hurricane, 80 miles isn't enough for me to go anywhere any safer (assuming you could get 80 miles from any of these methods, which is unlikely). At that point I'd just stay local.
A 4kW array will produce more power than my average daily usage during summer - and I'm looking at getting a 12kW array.
4kW would produce about 45kWh peak during the summer, easily enough to run my AC and cover my regular vehicle usage. That's about 1.3MWh a month. With a 12kW array I could have almost 4MWh a month of energy - what in gods name are you doing that you need more than that?
Y'all clearly haven't lived with solar - or just have truly 0.1% levels of power usage. The other part of all this, is during a natural disaster, it's pretty easy to trim energy usage. Like adjust or turn off AC, reduce how much you drive, reduce electrical loads like washing or drying.
Generator, solar. During the hurricanes there were so many generators going (including ours) that it was suffocating and we were all on 2-5 acre pieces of land in Naples.
That's ALWAYS been my point when people say 'what about a disaster and power outage' well I've lived through two hurricanes. In both cases the supply of gas was gone about 48 hours before the hurricane hit and we still had power... and power was back on before the gas was back. Pumps don't work without electricity.
I’ve experienced similar and having seen what happens, I’m confused why electric isn’t an obvious solution. No, it’s not perfect by any means. But it’s a lot easier to get electricity than refine your own gasoline when the supply chain is broken.
Exactly, these people seem to have not actually lived through weather related disasters. I have and if anything it sold me on EV's and solar more than anything else.
> if the electricity is out, the pumps don’t work either.
Some fuel stations have backup power. In some places, like Florida and [New York State](https://weldpower.com/gas-station-ny-agm-article-16-section-192-h/), fuel stations may be legally required to have backup power.
These things are going to go off-road about as often as a brand new top trim g63. They will probably go off-road less than a Leaf. If only because I know Nissan owners and I'll guarantee you Leafs go off-road lol.
It doesn't matter how people actually use their vehicle, it matters how they imagine they might use their vehicle one day. My parents are empty nesters and almost bought a 3 row SUV a few years ago based on very low probability what ifs. Huge portions of the entire car market are driven by dreams and aspirations, especially pickups and off-road SUVs.
True. Meanwhile I've got a half ton truck when I could probably legitimately justify a 3/4 ton with the sheer amount of towing I do but don't want to buy a new truck lol.
the range extender should probably end up costing $5-6k
Though I wonder why it would be that expensive. I could find a 8 kW generator for ~1000 USD within 3 minutes of googling.
On Alibaba, I also find a 10 kW Generator für 315 USD with only 90 Kg weight.
Sure, it probably woudn't pass emissions and was not designed for in-Car usage. But still. That's the price one can get after 10 minutes of googling.
I can totally see a Range extender costing less than 1000 USD (incl. profit margin) extra.
While a compact SUV might be able to get by with like an 80 kW generator, anything that's large or tows will probably need 150 kW minimum (about 200 HP). Generator will need enough power to keep the vehicle running with the battery "dead" without significant power loss. The BMW i3 had issues with power loss going up hills on the highway because the range extender wasn't big enough. Now imagine your truck now can't tow your camper up hills into the mountains unless you stop to charge at the bottom. The ram rev extender is probably over-sized, but better oversized than undersized for a vehicle designed to be a towing powerhouse.
As far as costs, even if the generator just to recharge the battery, you still need basically all the same equipment as you would have on an engine connected to the wheels and meet all the same emissions standards.
> While a compact SUV might be able to get by with like an 80 kW generator, anything that's large or tows will probably need 150 kW minimum (about 200 HP). Generator will need enough power to keep the vehicle running with the battery "dead" without significant power loss.
That is way to much! Compact SUVs use ~20 kW at highway Speeds. A 20 kW Generator would be enough for them.
I just looked at the consumption of various BEV trucks and it seems that they would need a ~50 kW Generator.
____
Also, not all of the energy nedes to come from the Generator: If 80 % of power comes from the generator than you still increase your "normal" range 5 times. So from e. g. 150 miles BEV range to ~750 miles EREV range - until you would be power-limited to a lower speed.
>The BMW i3 had issues with power loss going up hills on the highway because the range extender wasn't big enough.
The isssue with that would be more that the generator was not started early enough.
**The BMW i3 was wasn't allowed to start the REX early because than it would get less ZEV credits!** And they wanted those ZEV credits. That was also the reason why it's gasoline tank was so small.
But you have to design for starting at zero charge. People traveling long distance aren't going to both gas up and charge. Once they leave home you have to be able to run for thousands of miles with all power coming from the generator because that's how many users will drive it. Yes you can overcharge during some periods but that assumes the vehicle is able to know where you're going and the terrain ahead, which assumes people are using the built in navigation and not maps on their phone. You have to design for the least common denominator, which is towing at max capacity at 80mph on I-70 from Denver to Utah starting with a depleted battery. Anything less than that and you're going to get skewered by your customers and reviewers.
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Honestly we need more EREV setups.
At first it seems weird but there are so many pluses
* No complicated transmission, just direct EV drive.
* Generators can be designed almost hot swap-able. Just make the whole generator a replaceable thing with a few connections. (biggest thing for me) Design it easy to replace. Even get Honda or someone to make a defacto standard "generator" that goes in a few different manufactures. Get that economy of scale way up.
* Generators can be designed cheaper and smaller, fixed rpm means no complicated valve train and better emissions.
My Rivian can power a 20a circuit at 100% for 60 hours.
The range extender is useful for towing in some cases. Adding it means you now have maintenance, it'll need to run frequently enough to burn old fuel, a smaller battery, a less efficient vehicle, etc.
If you're towing a big box over the range of the vehicle monthly or more, it'll be useful. Most people will be buying it because they're not familiar with evs and don't really need it.
So, if I bought one (and I'm definitely target market), I would daily drive it, where having the range extender would be useless. But it would double as my camping rig. Which means towing a small tear-drop up into the sierras, and sometimes on longer road trips, as well as going back in to fire roads and Jeep trails. I think the range extender would somewhere between helpful and necessary, between the scarcity of chargers once you get up in the mountains and the range loss from towing.
This is also why I'm probably not going to buy one. Instead, I'll keep fixing up my 1999 Jeep XJ as my camping rig, and if I buy an EV, get something not off-road focused.
As cool as the Scout looks.... And a many fond memories as I have of the old Scout ii when I was a kid....
America seems to be the only developed country in the world that doesn't understand the future or situation humanity is facing. Truly, the most selfish, and either clueless or stupid, developed country on earth.
Volt is a weird one, the engine was mechanically connected to the wheels, so it wasn't just a generator. But unlike typcial PHEVs, it couldn't drive the car alone without electricity. But technially it wasn't a real EREV.
> It failed to sell in large numbers because it was packaged in a shitty car and with piss poor marketing.
It was also politicized to hell to an even greater extent than EVs generally have been.
The Volt used the same planetary style gearbox as Topyota hybrids, the only thing it dis better than the Prius Prime is having a bigger battery as it was less efficient on battery or gas.
> it was packaged in a shitty car
I disagree even with that. My 2013 Volt was kick ass. Comfortable, was an awesome commuter, decent in car entertainment. It's big issue is that it launched RIGHT into the launch of the Tesla Model S, which killed it's thunder.
The lack of a physical connection is not an advantage, it's a disadvantage, which is why the majority of PHEVs have had that physical connection.
At lower speeds they work the same. The Gas engine is a generator, sending electricity to the electric motors to move the car.
It's just at steady cruising speeds a gearset is clutched in to improve gasoline burning efficiency.
> Other than that, it's splitting hairs about including a physical connection to the wheels in some mode.
But thats pretty much the diffrent between normal PHEV and EREV. Every EREV is a PHEV but not every PHEV is a EREV.
The terms are interchangeable.
You can't claim the very first EREV, was not an EREV because it has a physical connection.
Here is a story from 2010:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/the-chevy-volt-actually-exists-and-we-drove-it/
>GM doesn't like to call the Volt a hybrid, choosing to classify it as an extended range electric vehicle (EREV).
The Volt was the first EREV, and it had a physical connection.
it's like saying AWD and 4x4 are the same thing, just depends on what point you're trying to make. To the customer they're the same, to engineers they can be significantly different. The scout setup will be very different than a Volt.
The scout setup will be different, that doesn't change the fact that they are both EREVs/PHEVs.
If you want additional accuracy you could mention the Scout is pure series EREV/PHEV.
>On the Scout EREVs, the electric-only range will be 150 mile
I think there are lots of people thinking they can just use EREVs a normal cars and ignore the EV aspect, but if those people thought a regular EV would give them range anxiety, they're in for a surprise.
Exactly, and VW was the only one who caught the heat. Almost every company benchmarked their emissions testing method of of VW’s testing method. When they saw VW get exposed they quickly abandoned ship before they got hit too.
> Exactly, and VW was the only one who caught the heat.
A bunch of other manufacturers were fined. Many were accused of using cheat devices. Many more were found to far exceed limits when using other tests. The news didn't give it the same attention.
i think unless you drive a ton of miles, a BEV is fine. I think its mostly a mental thing, people afraid of battery range limitations. The average person only drives 20 miles a day.
I travel in the north east USA and Canada, and charging infrastructure is good enough they most parks, campgrounds and hiking areas have both fast charging and L2 options. It's not perfect, but there are not that many places one can't confidently go adventuring in an EV.
Of course I well aware this isn't the case farther west.
I think trucks is where erev makes the most sense. I’m sure a lot of non truck ICE drivers think they need it but could easily do without the erev.
I think electric is currently great for about 60 percent of drivers (in America that is). The remaining 40 percent is best served either erev, phev, or regular old ice.
People should understand there’s advantages in simplicity (and often in performance) by going full ev. Erev and phev have more compromise, you lose some benefits of going full ev while mostly only getting extended range and quick fills in return.
I would say that by percentage of consumers that 95% of America could make do just fine with a 300 mi range EV. The only real exceptions are people that tow which is common enough, but not at a major percentage of vehicles.
Now that most brands have access to Tesla chargers it is much easier to get around even on long road trips in the winter. I did 750 miles over Thanksgiving weekend last year and it was right around freezing for all of the trip.
Yeah no shit, but its the biggest impediment to most people considering one. Yet the EV crowd loves to ignore that point when telling everyone else why they should own an EV instead.
The vast majority of people, including EV enthusiasts, agree that an EV doesn't make sense if you can't charge at home. I don't know who you mean by "the EV crowd," but I guess it's fun making up enemies lol
The EV crowd doesn't ignore it, it's the main thing that you will here in ANY subreddit when asked this question. I live in prime conservative-ville and work in a conservative industry and I always caveat the issues because I think people always feel better about something when you're straight up with them.
Exactly! I think that the "anti-EV crowd" has to make up strawmen to argue against. Obviously EV's don't make sense if you don't have cheap, reliable charging. Doing 100% of your charging at superchargers just doesn't make sense. Superchargers are bad for the battery, expensive, and inconvenient. They're meant for those rare times that you have to drive more than your total range in a day, which for most people will likely be less than a couple of times a year. I know I personally haven't driven more than 100 miles in a day in almost a decade, but I could be an outlier.
I drive an EV because most of the time I can make it home to charge, but I do routinely do 7-900 mile roadtrips for work. It still works out massively in my favor from an overall cost perspective.
But, I’d argue it’s one of those things that sound more inconvenient than it is in practice, assuming you have home charging. In my 1.5 years of owning an EV, I’ve visited the charging station twice because I have super cheap conveinent power at home.
People who don’t own EVs have a misunderstanding that they’ll need to visit charging stations as often as they visit gas stations now. This is only true for people without access to home charging (though if you don’t have access to home charging, you’d need to visit charging stations more often than you would a gas station).
Long story short, I spend significantly less time at charging stations in a year then than i spent in gas stations with an ICE car.
Ok, but now you’re getting into a class of people that is probably not as common as you think. People who are “road trippers” would fall into that 40% of people who I said are best served by erev, phev, or ice. Most people rarely road trip.
It’s one of those things that the longer the road trip, the more inconvenient things become. My road trips are typically in-state and can be done with one charge-up which is hardly an inconvenience since I need to stop anyway. Where things get dicey is cross country road trips, I think people are less likely to want to stop as much for those trips that are already 15+ hours.
Right. That's ok. I'm all about EREV for 40% of people out there haha.
I just want the suburban moms, the work commuters and the people who fly to their vacations know that if you have access to home charging and rarely drive more than 200 miles in a day, you're probably a better fit for the simpler (and cheaper) full EV.
Full EV's dont need to be for everyone right now. If it's not for you just yet, that's fine. Eventually it'll be a great choice for 95% of consumers but right now that is not where it's at.
I'd imagine people looking for an all terrain truck are probably much more likely than the general population to consider roadtripping experience in a purchase. Even for things like SF to Tahoe and back or LA to Vegas and back are fairly common trips.
Your idea of road trip is wrong. A trip to a cabin, a friends house, grandmas house, to the lake or mountain. Things not a road trip but a multi hour trip that you’re going to need to budget charging for. And there’s nothing that makes me feel like an idiot than sitting at a charger for an hour+ on a weekend you’re supposed to be hanging out. Like last time we went camping in Moab, I would have loved you got a full meal at a restaurant with the rest—but I had to charge the car….
My point is that people keep using 'can't roadtrip' as a reason that they shouldn't exist. You might as well say 'can't tow 10k lbs' on every CUV review, it sounds just as illogical. Yes, you pointed out a flaw in the car, neat, they all have some.
The assumption of having home charging is a big one, though. With current charging options, anyone renting is basically hosed if they want guaranteed overnight charging.
> The assumption of having home charging is a big one, though
Though you only have to include people who would consider your car. I'd say, if you consider a BEV or PHEV than you have home charging.
Currently the PEV market is small enough that it is compltely alright to only appeal to people who can charge at home.
“The overall American homeownership rate — the proportion of households living in homes they own — grew from a recent low of 63.4% in 2016 to 65.8% in 2022, according to data from the US Census Bureau”
https://usafacts.org/articles/homeownership-is-rebounding-particularly-among-younger-adults/
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> People should understand there’s advantages in simplicity (and often in performance) by going full ev.
100%, we're in a 2 car household and the main car we take around town is the Mach E. That said, I'm still not jazzed with the BEV road trip experience and we tend to take our Forester for all our road trips/camping excursions. I put in a reservation for a Traveler cause it seems like a great fit for that use case. My main issue is just that VW is in a state right now and I'm afraid they're gonna cost cut/compromise and release a sad and broken car.
Agreed. For myself, I could see me going full EV simply because the *lack* of a component is often the more reliable choice.
Zero oil changes, no faff with diff fluids or transmission oil. There is a relatively big advantage for people going to EV's in regards to their own maintenance.
Super interested in Scouts success because I think that puts pressure on Rivian and other automakers to make better price/performance vehicles as well.
I'm actually surprised that there isn't a brand that has moved towards this technology being their primary powertrain type, especially for the US market. I thought Volvo might be headed that way, with Polestar being the electric brand, but then they started to go full EV themselves.
I'll raise my hand and say I put down a reservation and if I was given the option I definitely selected the range extended version. It's a great looking product and if I actually want to go take it off road in the back country that's where range anxiety will get you more than anywhere.
I was skeptical about my first EV (Rivian) but am completely sold now. Still love my gas cars though, but for daily driving/commuting an EV beats a gas cars in almost every way.
Yep. I built and rebuilt cars all through college. At some point I want a “fun car” that will most likely be ICE….but for everything else - I’m so glad to not have to worry about all the service intervals and deal with the fluids, etc. Too much life stuff needs all of that attention and time
Not a surprise given that Rivian only sells around 40k a year do the truck and SUV so demand for a full EV is not large and the Rivian is a superior vehicle. Scout compensates by having the gas range extender which is unique in this segment.
VW should just buy Rivian and use the Scout factory for VW group products.
I can see how a PHEV would be a big seller over BEV for this niche.
This is marketed as a 4x4 adventure truck, and people think of all the potential use cases that might have issues with a pure EV like long distance towing, or overlanding for hundreds of miles away from power points, so buyers want to be "prepared" in case they might do those things, even though most of them won't. They buy the Range Extender as extra insurance.
When it comes to more regular cars, most people don't think much of long distance towing over hundreds of miles of backwoods overlanding, so pure EVs make more sense.
The range extender at the rear is a good idea. Once these people feel an electric drivetrain, many for the first time in their lives, they will never go back to a gas drivetrain. The range extender makes people feel comfortable, event if it only serves a fraction of the people who buy it.
If infrastructure for charging got an actual boost via govt funding as a push to change behaviors I think this wouldn’t be the worst option honestly. The private market alone isn’t incentivized yet to put more money up front because there’s no forcing function to change. A move like you’re suggesting, beefed up charging networks, and an additional “luxury” or “polluter” tax on all-ICE vehicles could also help that scenario.
Charging or not, electric propulsion is superior to a gas engine and transmission (except for recreational use on a track). Range extenders will help the rest of the market who is scared of charging on long distance trips or who need to tow and carry way more range.
As much as I was hoping electric trucks would help launch EVs to the general masses, it’s clear that the technology simply isn’t there yet. We’ve seen trucks of all types being offered and the market simply hasn’t responded. Too much cost for the package or too stripped in features and capability to make it more affordable. This doesn’t surprise me with the response to scout. I think the slate is just going to be more evidence that EVs can’t reasonably replace work vehicles in America at this stage.
I've seen more and more Lightnings out and about. TBF, where I live they get the cost equivalence of 90mpg when charged at home. The surveyor that came to the lot across the street had a brand new one. My company has demoed a few but haven't made the jump.
Getting the cost down on batteries is really the main thing.
Consider that the placement of the harvester at the back of the truck probably means that they never designed the rest of the vehicle to house a larger ICE engine in the middle or front.
Putting an engine in the vehicle with enough power to warrant it's place in the market would likely mean totally reengineering major structural aspects and interior space changes to the vehicle.
Kind of disagree. As an Erev, the engine basically needs to produce enough power to propel the car once the battery is depleted and the engine is just keeping the battery topped up at like 15-20%. And that would include uphill towing scenarios. Erev just lets them size an engine that's more efficient, but it's gotta more/less meet the power requirements of the vehicle. Much like the ram charger that's coming out.
Placement is a different story and I agree with you there. But, power wise, I kind of disagree.
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