TheaterFire

Airlines are feeding air traffic controllers as they miss their first full paychecks

Posted by Power-Equality@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 310 comments

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310 Comments

astroguyfornm@reddit

When I was a fed, we would decline food at university meet ups because it may be worth more than the gifted maximum. $20 per occurrence, $50 maximum from the same source per year. I should have accepted a bribe I suppose to help facilitate commercial activities now that I look back on it.
View on Reddit #70094349

jskoker@reddit

You can only accept bribes when the government is shut down.
View on Reddit #70094732

ShakespearianShadows@reddit

The people who would prosecute it are out of work too.
View on Reddit #70584213

SoyMurcielago@reddit

Or you’re not a worker bee in same
View on Reddit #70101225

Villasonte@reddit

I can't understand how that happens in the first and most important country in the world. I'm european and I live in Europe and I don't want to dunk on you on this. But I'm appalled by how Air safety can be jeopardized in this way.
View on Reddit #70098290

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]
View on Reddit #70583776

AutoModerator@reddit

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments can result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aviation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
View on Reddit #70583777

hawkersaurus@reddit

If you're European you should be used to it. Seems like every summer French ATC go on strike.
View on Reddit #70185845

Villasonte@reddit

Well, yeah. Regular strikes are part of a healthy Economy in a democratic country, IMHO. However, what we are discussing here is not a strike, but a forced shutdown.
View on Reddit #70205076

shniken@reddit

Yeah, I'm with you. Why on earth are they working if they aren't being paid?
View on Reddit #70119427

thiskillstheredditor@reddit

Because unlike most of the civilized world, social welfare isn’t the primary goal of our government. It’s crony capitalism.
View on Reddit #70117773

throwawayplusanumber@reddit

I am also perplexed by the massive spectrum of federal employees who immediately stop being paid when a budget bill isn't passed. The only time something equivalent ever happened in Australia, the government was sacked and a new election was held (after passing the budget bill).
View on Reddit #70102226

jmlinden7@reddit

It's not a budget bill. It's a debt ceiling bill, which for some reason isn't just bundled with the budget bill.
View on Reddit #70116516

MeccIt@reddit

> But I'm appalled by how Air safety can be jeopardized in this way. Oh, you're a few decades too late for that: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/05/1025018833/looking-back-on-when-president-reagan-fired-air-traffic-controllers
View on Reddit #70108774

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]
View on Reddit #70099201

AutoModerator@reddit

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments can result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aviation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
View on Reddit #70099202

Allcent@reddit

Airport Employee here: We bought our controllers Chick-fil-A yesterday, and if this continues we will likely have to budget for them. Better than losing a close friendship those before me have created over the last quarter century.
View on Reddit #70095202

aspz@reddit

Crazy. I was a bit confused by this at first but as explained in the article, many controllers are simply not showing up for work and choosing to do work like DoorDash and Uber instead. A few meals is a drop in the bucket but it makes sense that for those that do show up you want them to be well fed and concentrating.
View on Reddit #70104868

IllustriousApricot@reddit

>be ATC >no paycheck >decide to call out >grab some door dash gigs >first job: deliver an order of food for the ATC on shift >fuck
View on Reddit #70563146

aspz@reddit

lol!
View on Reddit #70574015

amsync@reddit

Many people at the office where I work are talking about cancelling thanksgiving trips because everyone is nervous about massive delays or much worse. It’s going to be an interesting holiday season
View on Reddit #70134466

totalyrespecatbleguy@reddit

My parents were talking about going to Italy but decided against it after the shutdown started
View on Reddit #70162645

SoyMurcielago@reddit

I know MCO some of the airport restaurants are giving ATC and TSA free meals
View on Reddit #70100850

gerstyd@reddit

TSA agents do NOT make a lot of money at all. man they must be hurting. what a terrible spot we are all in.
View on Reddit #70145325

showMeYourPitties10@reddit

At dfw Fridays was giving ATC free meals as of last week. (Atleast according to a fellow ramper of mine)
View on Reddit #70118716

Allcent@reddit

I’ll have to ask around see if ours will offer.
View on Reddit #70103357

QuantumLeaperTime@reddit

Large Airports make plenty of money to give loans to ATC.  It is small Airports that dont have money. 
View on Reddit #70121434

uriejejejdjbejxijehd@reddit

Thank you.
View on Reddit #70116818

WalkingAFIViolation@reddit

Not only do the controllers have to deal with the stress of work and missing paychecks, they now have to also suffer through airline's economy class catering
View on Reddit #70097265

tropicbrownthunder@reddit

Not only do the ALREADY OVERWORKED controllers have to deal with the stress of work... It's infuriating to say the least
View on Reddit #70557831

spaceace321@reddit

Would you like the chicken or the pasta?
View on Reddit #70130302

FutureRelative2266@reddit

I had the lasagna.
View on Reddit #70361627

dnuohxof-2@reddit

That actually made me lol
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WhatevUsayStnCldStvA@reddit

Just what I want in air traffic controllers. Put them in stressful work and life situations with no end in sight. Then send a pizza now and then. They are definitely super focused in there…
View on Reddit #70108590

yeswenarcan@reddit

I mean, that's been hospitals' solution for a long time.
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Objective-Chard8526@reddit

Could this affect commercial aviation safety in a non-negligeable way?
View on Reddit #70400758

vectaur@reddit

Funny how they make it sound like some sort of charitable thing, when the real story is “yeah *please please* keep working because our entire business falls apart without you”.
View on Reddit #70092885

UnreasoningOptimism@reddit

With or without the food, we will keep working. It's illegal for us to not.
View on Reddit #70100624

meshreplacer@reddit

yeah but if you have no gas Money to go to work how can it be illegal?
View on Reddit #70324619

Equivalent-Tour7607@reddit

It’s illegal to quit your job?
View on Reddit #70102155

UnreasoningOptimism@reddit

It's illegal to go on strike. I'm not going to quit my $400,000/yr job (iykyk) because our Congress is filled with stupid selfish children.
View on Reddit #70104510

baco_wonkey@reddit

Yall make $400K a year and are whining about missing one paycheck? Gimme a break
View on Reddit #70105450

UnreasoningOptimism@reddit

Christ it was a joke. The Secretary of Transportation claimed on TV that we make 180k-400k. The max salary for any government employee is 195k and the vast majority of controllers make much less than that, especially while in training. Also, even if we did, how long are you willing to work without being paid? It's not completely about the money, it's also about respect and dignity.
View on Reddit #70105659

CrotchalFungus@reddit

> Also, even if we did, how long are you willing to work without being paid Private sector, and the day my paycheck is late because accounting fucked up is the day we all hang out at the coffee maker to really get it clean and the brew settings dialed in. Happens about once a year and lasts all of a day or two but that shit pisses me off to no end.
View on Reddit #70112123

Syrdon@reddit

Honestly, if private sector can't make payroll, I assume it's because they're insolvent and anything they say is covering for that. Miss one paycheck and I'm looking for a job that day
View on Reddit #70116633

CrotchalFungus@reddit

Agreed the first time, but enough time has told me it's incompetence and a good source helps know what the issue bis.
View on Reddit #70116990

itsaride@reddit

> especially while in training. That goes without saying.
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BricksByLonzo@reddit

I make much more than that as an ATC. More than most captains at majors. More responsibility=more pay.
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Equivalent-Tour7607@reddit

You’re making over half a mil as atc?
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UnreasoningOptimism@reddit

What country?
View on Reddit #70109311

TheDrMonocle@reddit

This is not the attitude shared by the people sending the food. Sure some of the CEOs might think that way but most of the food I've seen has come from the unions specifically. Also, a free sandwich or a slice of pizza is never going to keep controllers coming to work.
View on Reddit #70093399

Panaka@reddit

Unions can send food and gift cards, the companies legally aren’t allowed to.
View on Reddit #70108123

ExoticMangoz@reddit

Companies can’t give people free food in the US?
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Panaka@reddit

Companies can't give federal employees gifts in the US. It's an anti-corruption thing as any gift could be seen as a bribe. Most first world countries have similar anti-corruption laws for government staff.
View on Reddit #70160859

toad__warrior@reddit

Unless you are in Congress, then not only is it legal, it is *highly* encouraged
View on Reddit #70110907

FinancialMilk1@reddit

One of the political parties should use this as free PR and send food to various TSA and ATC employees across the country.
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meanjeans99@reddit

How will they pay their mortgage?  Food is the least of their concerns. 
View on Reddit #70117819

pezdal@reddit

It is possible to have more than one motivation. I am sure they want to support their colleagues and keep the planes moving.
View on Reddit #70095170

Turbulent_Crow7164@reddit

Yeah. People on Reddit are so cynical lol.
View on Reddit #70118943

asreagy@reddit

How can you NOT be cynical. I mean... > Gestures around
View on Reddit #70155346

ThaddeusJP@reddit

Let's be real. It's about money. All these airlines are publicly traded companies and they all have shareholders to think about. This isn't some altruistic thing they're doing they need to keep people buying plane tickets and flying.
View on Reddit #70113782

ChrysisX@reddit

Its generally been the pilot/airline unions though, not the airlines themselves fwiw
View on Reddit #70122894

dmills_00@reddit

They just don't want to be limited to uncontrolled airspace and VFR, (costs fuel or something, apparently). I mean you CAN fly across the country like that, and with the gov shut down the FAA shouldn't be handing out phone numbers to call...
View on Reddit #70132276

111copycat@reddit

/r/orphancrushingmachine
View on Reddit #70102703

Ok-Abbreviations1551@reddit

Canada has also sent food down too! They’ve done it in the past and they’ve done it most recently. An entire country’s aviation system and safety is at risk. I think that’s the underlying thought behind these gestures. But we should really be thinking about the orphan crushing machine.
View on Reddit #70097175

cyberentomology@reddit

Not just the airline’s business, pretty much the entire global economy crashes without ATC. In ways that make COVID shutdown and the great depression look rather tame.
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my_worst_fear_is@reddit

it can be two things at once!
View on Reddit #70095285

adureho@reddit

Damn, airlines playing 4D chess with payroll now.
View on Reddit #70259872

f1mike@reddit

That's worse than some third world countries.
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ertri@reddit

Yeah those countries tend to have functional governments 
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Worth_Inflation_2104@reddit

What? Look dunking on the US is fun but most 3rd world governments are run significantly worse than the US.
View on Reddit #70255713

ertri@reddit

How many of them aren’t paying their militaries right now?
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IllustriousAd1591@reddit

In the third world? No they fucking don’t lmao
View on Reddit #70094714

What_a_fat_one@reddit

I love how morons think "third world" means Haiti
View on Reddit #70110573

Worth_Inflation_2104@reddit

Are you playing the "ackshually Switzerland is technically 3rd world" card?
View on Reddit #70255731

TheCatOfWar@reddit

Genuine question, what does count these days? I know the original 1st/2nd/3rd world definition was based on Cold War alignment rather than any particular economic/development factor, and nowadays the PC term is developed/developing countries (or LEDC). But in a modern context, what would you consider a third world country?
View on Reddit #70132588

ertri@reddit

Name one country not currently paying its air traffic controllers 
View on Reddit #70097437

Kanyiko@reddit

I think it starts with 'United' and ends with 'America'. Something 'Of' and 'States' in the middle too, I think.
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SoyMurcielago@reddit

Estados Unidos mexicanos de norte América? Idk I’m being a pedant
View on Reddit #70100999

Kanyiko@reddit

South Canada, the little one south (and with a bit west) of True Canada being another one on the list..
View on Reddit #70107224

ertri@reddit

Ok yeah I should’ve said one other county lol
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Beahner@reddit

And neither do we at the present. Ain’t it grand?
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Imprezzed@reddit

I bet their controllers get paid though.
View on Reddit #70096643

MoreRamenPls@reddit

Peanuts and half sodas?
View on Reddit #70233751

42145505560550@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/ttkbglhomgyf1.jpeg?width=514&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b02dabd52c0980101bcd46c56d733dfef9bec7d Got the weirdest CPDLC message today!
View on Reddit #70148775

Prestigious-Oil4213@reddit

Can’t go anywhere without seeing this screen lol
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discardedbubble@reddit

can someone explain why they aren’t getting paid? Is it because of ten US govt shutdown, is this a govt job? That’s insane to me, if I didn’t get paid I wouldn’t have enough money to get to work at all.
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Cbona@reddit

This is it. It’s a government job. And with the government being shutdown/without appropriations they don’t get a paycheck. But they are considered essential/accepted employees so they are required to continue to show up to work.
View on Reddit #70156903

discardedbubble@reddit

I feel so bad for people in the US right now
View on Reddit #70159001

Prestigious-Oil4213@reddit

They will assumingely get back pay. I borderline feel bad for people in my country, but, luckily, most of us have gone unaffected, at this moment. We wouldn’t be in this mess if we didn’t rely so heavily on the government. Maybe it’s time for people to start realizing they need to quit being selfish and start helping their neighbors. Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of “free” community help, but it’s only going to go so far if more aren’t willing to help during this.
View on Reddit #70220953

007_Shantytown@reddit

Make sure they don't all get the fish.
View on Reddit #70091354

velosnow@reddit

Picked a hell of a week to stop sniffing glue.
View on Reddit #70091602

rygelicus@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/ryj1m9gu3byf1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de5116b2b9d735e031263843a103dd9f5967465a
View on Reddit #70093439

catspongedogpants@reddit

Why does this look vaguely familiar? What is this?
View on Reddit #70112478

RedRedditor84@reddit

It's the inside of a cockpit. But that's not important right now.
View on Reddit #70195060

rygelicus@reddit

The movie Airplane.
View on Reddit #70113029

Chronic_Sharter@reddit

S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
View on Reddit #70092791

space_coyote_86@reddit

Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch you up on the rebound on the med side.
View on Reddit #70094804

cbrookman@reddit

What it is, Big Momma? My momma din’ raise no dummy! I dug her rap!
View on Reddit #70161284

space_coyote_86@reddit

Cut me some slack, jack!
View on Reddit #70168269

SoyMurcielago@reddit

Chump don’t want no help chump don’t get the help
View on Reddit #70100680

kayroice@reddit

Golly!
View on Reddit #70113170

FreshSoul86@reddit

If I was waiting between connections at Atlanta I'd sacrifice my Jekyll Island Seafood meal for the controllers.
View on Reddit #70140351

Floppy-Over-Drive@reddit

When do the airport announcers stop getting paid? I don’t want Betty to start with her white zone shit again. 
View on Reddit #70093273

Spidergawd68@reddit

The white zone is for loading and unloading only. If you have to load, or if you have to unload, you go to the white zone. You'll love it. It's a way of life.
View on Reddit #70095381

roadbikemadman@reddit

Not in IAH or BWI; you'll never get that close ti a terminal.
View on Reddit #70134026

euph_22@reddit

Surely you can't be serious.
View on Reddit #70091639

ABoy36@reddit

I am. And don’t call me shirley
View on Reddit #70091770

TigerUSA20@reddit

“hmmm…. Jim never vomits at home 🤔”
View on Reddit #70091995

bhenghisfudge@reddit

What's your vector, victor?
View on Reddit #70092159

SpeedRacerWasMyBro@reddit

What's our clearance Clarence?
View on Reddit #70093184

dan2376@reddit

Roger, Roger
View on Reddit #70096321

old_righty@reddit

Huh?
View on Reddit #70116425

TigerUSA20@reddit

At first, I was like “why are you posting that?”, then I remembered Kareem 🤣
View on Reddit #70116548

CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit

Tell me Billy, have you ever seen a grown man naked?
View on Reddit #70100075

Fun-Award-555@reddit

Do you like gladiators?
View on Reddit #70112895

SoyMurcielago@reddit

First time?
View on Reddit #70100622

Zakluor@reddit

No, I've been nervous before.
View on Reddit #70104774

Mist_Rising@reddit

No Shirley is on instruments.
View on Reddit #70107403

russellvt@reddit

So Long and Thanks for All the.. ?.?
View on Reddit #70110846

phantom_4_life@reddit

United had a bad case of food poisoning at DEN last thanksgiving or Christmas from the company dinner. Can’t remember which one but lots of callouts the next two days lol.
View on Reddit #70100332

Haldron-44@reddit

Ah yes, I had the lasagna.
View on Reddit #70094086

SyrusDrake@reddit

Can't ATCs just...refuse to work? If you don't get paid, you don't do work. Seems pretty simple.
View on Reddit #70122542

Marklar_RR@reddit

In other countries they can, see ATC strikes in France that happen almost on regular basis :). In US they cannot. They are considered "essential workers" and still required to carry out their duties, like the army or police.
View on Reddit #70132833

SyrusDrake@reddit

Your employer is also required to pay you, so...
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2WheelRide@reddit

So… can the Republicans get their act together, negotiate some healthcare cost subsidies, and get the government back open? It would be a win-win for… the constituents, us, who voted for them to work for us.
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n103xa@reddit

I work for an airline and we tried to send pizza to a tower to feed the controllers. Our legal department caught wind of it and shut it down. Apparently there are laws/rules against airlines or airline employees paying for goods/food/services to federal employees.
View on Reddit #70094846

karawec403@reddit

Not necessarily airline specific. Federal employees aren’t allowed to accept gifts in general.
View on Reddit #70105488

CatInAPickleSuit@reddit

Except the Supreme Court and the President, of course.
View on Reddit #70158464

kiwi_love777@reddit

And senators… congressmen
View on Reddit #70184487

CatInAPickleSuit@reddit

Senators are Congressmen
View on Reddit #70185540

ChillFratBro@reddit

Laws about unjust enrichment of government officials are not currently being enforced, though.  I don't think a pizza or two would even register. And mods, don't ban me.  I'm not making a value judgement, I'm stating a fact and letting the reader draw their own conclusions.
View on Reddit #70095234

n103xa@reddit

Totally agree with your opinion and sentiment. Our legal department thinks otherwise. I work for a major airline in a union. I guess they decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
View on Reddit #70097190

AndySocial88@reddit

The fact they are willing to try feed ATC now, is a sign of coperate desperation and like corporate desperation it's mostly lip service. I've been working in the airlines for quite awhile and remember they didn't do this last shut down. They are trying to get a head with good PR but their main goal is to not get grounded. No ATC? Now they have to give out points and other amenities if they aren't Frontier. No airline wants to spend a cent over profit. If they give or points/flying miles, they calculated that in the budget but a full stop that may go over budget? Yeah let's feed the guys that allow us to not take a loss. In the 2019 ATC call outs in LGA were definitely a push to reopen because shareholders started grumbling.
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kiwi_love777@reddit

It’s because this shutdown is one of the longest in recent memory….
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SoyMurcielago@reddit

Cash rules everything around me Including the flight levels
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AndySocial88@reddit

I used to be at a carrier that always advertised to customers free snacks and employees profit sharing.during COVID those were the first things to go despite the stock doing well due to bailouts which kept me employed but the math just didn't work. Profit by definition is making a surplus to operational requirements. So everyone has been on a skeleton crew and almost every airline I see rather go with a cheaper BP to fill laid off departments because they are no longer obligated for benefits. Theres quite a few legacy airlines that run third party LLCs for that reason. Industry got wrecked, that have that cream and the top isn't sharing.
View on Reddit #70105506

Dorothyismyneighbor@reddit

Ex-Con upvoting and raspberries at UGE.
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mortgagepants@reddit

it isn't that the ATC couldn't (wouldn't per se) take it, it is that the legal team can't authorize sending it.
View on Reddit #70105239

5heuredumat@reddit

"Juice wasn't worth the squeeze" you learn a new expression every day, thank you :)
View on Reddit #70102209

Ordinary_Kyle@reddit

Laws on the level you're talking about are being enforced because the government officials you would be enriching, atc, isn't on a level that can skirt the laws.
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Air320@reddit

Not being enforced against _certain_ people. Pretty sure if they wanted leverage for something in the future they won't hesitate.
View on Reddit #70097889

SoyMurcielago@reddit

Like the mafia the moment you accept the gift they own you
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AFrozen_1@reddit

Yep. Basic conflict of interest rules. Anything beyond something like free water, coffee, donuts is strictly prohibited.
View on Reddit #70104688

big_trike@reddit

What if the airlines gave them payday loans? ATC will eventually get paid, so That’s not enriching anyone.
View on Reddit #70134308

Fenderfreak145@reddit

Quick! Someone tell Southwest!
View on Reddit #70098694

Panaka@reddit

Some people at SWA tried to send food, but legal got mad. Unions that might represent certain employees at SWA might have been able to make things work while staying legal though.
View on Reddit #70108021

Panaka@reddit

Get your union involved and they will normally have means of getting things to your local ATC in a legal manner. My office tried the same a few weeks back and legal also freaked out, but our union was able to help out.
View on Reddit #70107951

UnreasoningOptimism@reddit

If it's less than $20/person, send it. I guess you'd have to pay for it out of petty cash though.
View on Reddit #70105866

bdepz@reddit

Was gonna post something. Remembered what sub I'm in. 757 is the best plane of all time. 🫡
View on Reddit #70100441

thatguy425@reddit

Do they not make good money ? I would think that job would pay well, that you wouldn’t be paycheck to paycheck.
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KiloPapa@reddit

I also work a job that shouldn't be paycheck-to-paycheck. But some of my coworkers for some reason are always complaining about how they're broke. TBF, I'm a single person with no kids, and when you start factoring in the cost of dependents, schooling, vehicle and home ownership to support a larger family, health insurance, etc. I can see how a 6-figure job can quickly get eaten up by expenses, especially in this economy. People also tend to live up to the level of whatever their means are. If you're pulling 6 figures and have no reason to think that supply of money will end, you're going to have a nice house, car, etc. to live comfortably at the salary you expect to get. Then suddenly your paychecks stop coming and you still have to pay your bills.
View on Reddit #70175173

Cbona@reddit

It can be well paid. But everyone is different and has different challenges throughout their lives.
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dnuohxof-2@reddit

I’m happy this is happening, in the “humans helping humans” category, but the fact we’ve even gotten here shows who inept our elected officials are. Using TSO and ATC as bargaining chips along side welfare benefits is cruel and evil. All this does is make things more dangerous for everyone….. secretary Duffy has failed every American.
View on Reddit #70165400

airpab1@reddit

Outrageous that they aren’t being paid, regardless of govt shutdown These folks are vital….its criminal
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Fit-Function-1410@reddit

Can confirm. We’re doing a food drive right now
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OkPerspective9173@reddit

I don’t believe this for a minute. Air traffic controller are so me of the highest paid government employees, $140k to $210k a year.
View on Reddit #70148016

The_Arpie@reddit

I see a lot on here talking about how ATC can't strike so they are still working. Surely not working due to non payment isn't a strike. If an individual doesn't get paid they are not withdrawing their labour, it's the otherway around it's the employer who has broken the employment contract. Even for critical workers who can't strike surely they can't be compelled to work for no wages.
View on Reddit #70145516

changee_of_ways@reddit

Controllers should just call in. "I did not get paid, I cannot come to work because I do not have money to put gas in my car, and I cannot take my child to daycare, because I did not get paid" You want me to work, fuck you pay me.
View on Reddit #70108703

nick012000@reddit

Isn't the issue less that people aren't paying taxes, and more that the government isn't authorising the issuing of government debt?
View on Reddit #70126093

changee_of_ways@reddit

I meant in general, people, especially wealthy people are of the opinion that we can cut taxes and services and still have a great first world country.
View on Reddit #70141711

FafnerTheBear@reddit

I'm at the point where this should be the first domino to fall in a general strike. No controllers, no flights, cripple air logistics. Let there be catastrophic economic consequences to the government shutdown, holding the government's feet to the fire. Stick the whole foot in if necessary.
View on Reddit #70111425

miffet80@reddit

Non-American here, I was kind of wondering this, like is there a reason ATC controllers aren't going on strike over this? Grounding all/most flights from major air hubs would literally cripple the country, the shutdown would be over in hours...
View on Reddit #70137522

spazturtle@reddit

Most countries don't allow critical government employees to strike, allowing government employees to strike would make the democratic process pointless since a small minority could just blackmail the government into doing what they want.
View on Reddit #70139462

miffet80@reddit

That makes total sense, thanks!
View on Reddit #70139840

FafnerTheBear@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_strike?wprov=sfla1 Basically, there was a strike in '81 that got nearly all the striking ATCs fired. That was a major blow to labor unions in this country. These days, most unions in the US use striking as an absolute last resort. The union I'm in doesn't let locals strike without express permission from the international office; doing so without it gets your ticket pulled. I imagine others are like that as well. Some unions that take contracts from the government are legally forbidden from striking like rail workers, and I believe ATCs as well.
View on Reddit #70139378

miffet80@reddit

Fascinating! Thanks
View on Reddit #70139812

profmka@reddit

Went into IAD recently and I can tell something's off. The tower was pretty stretched out talking nonstop like a director/approach frequency and was ignoring us between calls.
View on Reddit #70137779

cobracommander00@reddit

Nice but ATC make REAL good money, I don't think many of them are hurting for food after missing one paycheck unless they are complete degenerates with their money Still absolutely insane they aren't getting paid though
View on Reddit #70115977

TheCatOfWar@reddit

tbh I wouldn't consider unpaid labour making 'REAL good money'
View on Reddit #70132659

zzgamma@reddit

4th world country
View on Reddit #70130895

longstrokept@reddit

Do aircraft controllers live paycheck to paycheck? I'm not saying I like any of this but the way its stated make it sound like that.
View on Reddit #70130328

UseDaSchwartz@reddit

This just in, Miller calls for ATCs to be fired for accepting gifts over the allowed amount for federal employees.
View on Reddit #70112593

kite-flying-expert@reddit

I need to ask.... Like seriously? Or are toh joking. I actually can't tell.
View on Reddit #70128102

BeachHut9@reddit

If Air Traffic Controllers get sick from eating airline food then who is to blame?
View on Reddit #70126351

WorkingFit5413@reddit

It’s good business I will say. Smart move. None of the airlines want a lawsuit because there weren’t enough atc working, nor do they want a full stop of services over this mess. Can’t believe how bad the US has become in governments not working over a corrupt president.
View on Reddit #70116902

nick012000@reddit

In countries with a parliamentary system, this sort of thing is grounds for the resignation of the Prime Minister and the calling of an election.
View on Reddit #70125917

Dont_crossthestreams@reddit

Correction, airline UNIONS are feeding the controllers
View on Reddit #70096482

SoyMurcielago@reddit

TWA?
View on Reddit #70101089

Moist_Board@reddit

TWAAA https://preview.redd.it/nn892twzeeyf1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a11ed12f0675014d3a5ab80a16ebc8d2425adc18
View on Reddit #70125362

Frosty_Log6972@reddit

I wish…
View on Reddit #70120553

wy1d@reddit

transport workers of america
View on Reddit #70104936

fresh_like_Oprah@reddit

Thanks for leaving the IAM SCABS out of that sentence
View on Reddit #70109075

AngeliMortem@reddit

Absolutely ignorant person here. What it is going on? Why are they getting theyr paychecks delayed?
View on Reddit #70105765

N5tp4nts@reddit

ELI5 Non-political answer; There's no budget. America could not pass a bill to fund the country. So government employees and programs do not have funding right now.
View on Reddit #70112018

AngeliMortem@reddit

Thanks! That's the perfect answer I would say haha
View on Reddit #70125158

Rip_Off_Your_Toenail@reddit

moderators disallow answering this question
View on Reddit #70106414

AngeliMortem@reddit

Oh I see. Sorry then! I will try to find it. In from EU and I haven't heard anything about this. As I said Im an absolutely ignorant in this topic...
View on Reddit #70107065

SquirrelMoney8389@reddit

This is going to become the new norm. "You want profits? You want flights? YOU pay the air traffic controllers."
View on Reddit #70124392

gromm93@reddit

If only there were some way for large corporations to feed the people that work for the government and keep things running, just automatically! Like maybe some kind of yearly or even monthly subscription! These things are so hard! I guess we'll never know!
View on Reddit #70123473

anishpatel131@reddit

How can they not survive without one paycheck? They get it back once gov opens up.
View on Reddit #70099794

PaulMuadDib-Usul@reddit

That's also a point, that makes me wonder. Here in Europe ATC controllers are extremely well paid professionals, far above the average. Therefore, I would expect that even if one or two salaries would be missed, people should still have enough savings to get along without the need for food donations. That's quite concerning to me, that if even ATC controllers are needing (food) support, how are then other, probably not so well paid federal employees getting along.
View on Reddit #70107532

seeking_hope@reddit

It’s not just food. But paying for rent/mortgage, child care, health insurance, car payment, student loans, etc. When things get tight and you have to pick what expenses to cut, food tends to be the hardest… if it means hungry and having a roof over your head or homeless with some food in a backpack? I don’t think a lot of people have tons of savings.
View on Reddit #70109712

anishpatel131@reddit

Give me a break. They are paid six figures. They have money saved
View on Reddit #70116037

seeking_hope@reddit

I would hope. I would love to make 6 figures. Sometimes income doesn’t match savings.
View on Reddit #70116188

anishpatel131@reddit

They aren’t living paycheck to paycheck. They are highly compensated with good benefits. Just cut the nonsense. If they are paycheck to paycheck it’s their choice to be like that
View on Reddit #70123279

anishpatel131@reddit

They have it. They are just greedy and pretend like they don’t when pretending like they have no savings gets them more money
View on Reddit #70116018

Power-Equality@reddit (OP)

It’s been more than one
View on Reddit #70102593

Redebo@reddit

Do we really believe that the professionals who guide the air traffic are living paycheck to paycheck?
View on Reddit #70121132

BoinkDoinkKoink@reddit

they might as well pay them too. With the latest anti-consumer moves made by this admin, Airlines will be even less liable for compensation, meals and hotel accommodations due to delays, and that's a ton of money airlines will be saving.
View on Reddit #70092681

cyberentomology@reddit

The airlines already pay them, but congress decided to insert themselves into the process.
View on Reddit #70096860

jobohomeskillet@reddit

I’m unfamiliar with how airlines pay ATCs?
View on Reddit #70104320

cyberentomology@reddit

There is a tax on every single ticket that goes to the FAA.
View on Reddit #70106065

jobohomeskillet@reddit

So when I buy a plane ticket I should see a line item for the FAA?
View on Reddit #70118195

4Sammich@reddit

Wait till you realize what the PFC is.
View on Reddit #70120837

cyberentomology@reddit

Yes, you do.
View on Reddit #70119634

BoinkDoinkKoink@reddit

Sure, but the airlines \*collect\* these fees on behalf of the FAA, including other fees like facility charges and taxes. So it's paid by the passengers, not the airlines, and doesn't mean airlines are funding the FAA. And that also does not mean the FAA does not also get a large chunk of funding from the federal gov't. That's the difference here.
View on Reddit #70120272

redtron3030@reddit

Do the users pay them?
View on Reddit #70110735

cyberentomology@reddit

Commercial air bears the cost, and private/GA gets away scot-free
View on Reddit #70111499

Pitiful_Special_8745@reddit

This happened before. Why reddit would not about those only when cheeto man is in? Smell like propaganda
View on Reddit #70110236

lordnoak@reddit

"These pizza parties are coming out of your bonus this year." \-- Airlines, probably.
View on Reddit #70093748

Castun@reddit

It's OK, the bonus itself was just more pizza parties.
View on Reddit #70105590

2pearsofjeans@reddit

Well we gave you pizza back in October, so we don’t really see a need to do it again. Consider it like an early bonus!
View on Reddit #70120679

RightRudderr@reddit

Its pizza parties all the way down
View on Reddit #70109078

404night@reddit

I’m flying next week, am I cooked?
View on Reddit #70117954

ReconKiller050@reddit

Pilot here, called my local ATCT, Approach and Center to schedule a time to send them all food. Sent a catering platter from the local deli. A lot of my friends are pilots and have done the same. Controllers take care of us everyday now its our turn step up for them when they need it. I know the pilots unions like ALPA, APA, IPA, SWAPA have all done been donating or doing whatever they can to help the controllers. Really appreciate all the controllers out there hopefully this doesn't drag on to long you guys have enough problems with stress and staffing without the gov shutdown.
View on Reddit #70116422

Niaso@reddit

You don't usually expect to see this on the tarmac. https://preview.redd.it/g650nlhtycyf1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec5f850ddabdac3909c32fa8c0bf2d2e6061fb8d
View on Reddit #70116245

Snuhmeh@reddit

Richest country in the world. And we do this bullshit.
View on Reddit #70115284

Austin_funn@reddit

Airlines should stop paying landing and fare rental fees and redirect the money to air traffic controllers.
View on Reddit #70115067

ThaddeusJP@reddit

My tin foil hat theory is they're going to delay things so long and so many people are going to quit or stop working that they're going to use it as an excuse to privatize ATC under the guise of keeping America moving.
View on Reddit #70113863

ilovebattleships@reddit

Not really airlines. Pilots, and pilot unions, are the ones I’ve seen feed ATC. Airlines are run by CEOs. CEOs don’t give a flying f*ck about anything but their bonuses, so I doubt “airlines” is an accurate title for this.
View on Reddit #70094228

Bradyj23@reddit

I know my airline sent pizza.
View on Reddit #70095410

parkertyler@reddit

Mine too. Sent food to ATC located at everyone of our bases.
View on Reddit #70113837

ilovebattleships@reddit

Nice.
View on Reddit #70096276

Known-Associate8369@reddit

Airlines cant fly if ATC doesnt operate. So yea, I'd say that the CEOs give some degree of a fuck here, as ATC peeps deciding that working in Walmart is the better option over going hungry 100% impacts a CEOs bonus.
View on Reddit #70094711

Panaka@reddit

Airlines and airline employees can’t legally send food or gift cards, but their unions can. Some workgroups at SWA recently tried to send something to some of the local facilities, but legal said they couldn’t. TWU, SWAPA, and even AMFA were able to though.
View on Reddit #70108313

ilovebattleships@reddit

Okay. Any news articles that say “ Scott Kirby, or any airline CEO, has airline send food to ATC facilities”? Haven’t seen anything that says that. I have seen headlines and social media that ALPA, and APA, are the ones sending food to ATC. That’s what I was trying to say.
View on Reddit #70096257

Known-Associate8369@reddit

See, all you are doing there is putting extremely specific criteria on the proof you are demanding just so you can reject anything which doesn't match your exact "argument". CEOs act through their companies - they dont have to personally donate anything, they can direct the company to do so. Just like the heads of ALPA, APA etc aren't doing things themselves - they are using members funds to do things that bring the unions good PR.
View on Reddit #70097866

ilovebattleships@reddit

Okey dokey. I’m saying the headline was misleading, and may imply that CEOs care about a group of workers, for the sake of caring. They do not. But I’ve got other things to do today sooooo….. have a good one.
View on Reddit #70098213

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]
View on Reddit #70099415

AutoModerator@reddit

To reduce political fighting this post or comment has been filtered for approval. Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments can result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aviation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
View on Reddit #70099416

TomkO0O@reddit

US my favorite, richest third-world country.
View on Reddit #70096052

ThaddeusJP@reddit

United States is a third world country in a Gucci belt
View on Reddit #70113826

itsaride@reddit

Been saying that for years now, first world economy, third world society.
View on Reddit #70109151

Leaf__On__Wind@reddit

Are they not allowed to strike? When Billionaires pressure govts, things get done way quicker You can't make someone work?
View on Reddit #70095308

cyberentomology@reddit

Because if ATC went on strike it would collapse the global economy before dinnertime. It would make the covid shutdown look like a minor blip.
View on Reddit #70096627

Leaf__On__Wind@reddit

Can still strike to a reduction surely?
View on Reddit #70096833

UnluckySupermarket38@reddit

Can't strike. 
View on Reddit #70097979

AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit

Can strike. It's the global right of every single person on the planet.
View on Reddit #70113482

SoyMurcielago@reddit

To paraphrase a well known delta flight attendant “striking while a federal employee is not allowed”
View on Reddit #70101342

AltrntivInDoomWorld@reddit

You overestimate how important US airplane traffic is for global shipping. Hint: it's drop in a bucket. The only people really suffering would be politicians and rich millionaires.
View on Reddit #70113409

SnowBunniHunter@reddit

They need to just strike - who cares about the economy! It’s falling any way. This bull market can’t last.
View on Reddit #70102281

GGCRX@reddit

ATC controllers went on strike in the 80's and the president fired almost all of them. Federal workers aren't actually allowed to strike, even if they're in a union, and especially if they're considered critical. Anyone who is required to work right now rather than being sent home on furlough is going to get very harsh treatment if they go on strike - legally, participating in a strike as a federal employee is a felony offense. They can, however, quit and if this goes on too long they'll have to just to make ends meet, whether they want to or not.
View on Reddit #70102523

AspieFabels@reddit

Why don’t the airlines pay them instead of the government
View on Reddit #70112878

Hopinan@reddit

Here is a thought, pay the ATC based on the difficulty of each tower, on a bid system, the harder the work is, the more they get paid.. It would be interesting to see if the major hubs got better or worse…
View on Reddit #70112266

FloppyTacoflaps@reddit

Wealthiest country in the world... what the fuck ever happened to home of the brave and land of the free
View on Reddit #70110770

N5tp4nts@reddit

Too many people gave up on the "home of the brave" part.
View on Reddit #70111837

FafnerTheBear@reddit

It never existed. Propaganda is a hell of a thing.
View on Reddit #70111577

poptartmonkey24@reddit

how can i send my local tower a bunch of meals as an individual citizen
View on Reddit #70104211

N5tp4nts@reddit

Find the tower phone number. Ask what would be helpful. Send it.
View on Reddit #70111759

cyberentomology@reddit

Fundamentally what probably needs to happen is for ATC to be spun off into a GSE much like the post office, fully self-funding through user fees (in a way it’s already funded that way but congress funnels those through the general fund, making it a political pawn). Same could probably be said for TSA (the handful of airports with contract security generally work quite well).
View on Reddit #70096501

N5tp4nts@reddit

GSE's have their own set of problems... but not getting paid isn't one of them.
View on Reddit #70111707

tburtner@reddit

Most pilots voted for this chaos.
View on Reddit #70111461

qwarfujj@reddit

If this is being supplied by the airlines wouldn't it be an ethics violation at some point?
View on Reddit #70111443

mlorusso4@reddit

I’m actually surprised the airlines aren’t picking up the tab for the ATC paychecks. Like that’s something that directly effects their entire business model. If the airspace is closed they’re screwed. I know it’s possibly an issue with legality, but write a law that says certain industries can pay government workers if they choose and the government will reimburse them once they reopen
View on Reddit #70110814

glwillia@reddit

legality is only an issue if you don’t pay proper tribute to DJT. so if the airlines give him a shiny gold bauble, they’ll be fine.
View on Reddit #70111075

dsanft@reddit

Maybe air traffic controllers should be industry funded anyways.
View on Reddit #70092721

goldman60@reddit

There wouldn't be an industry if we took away the huge amount of government funding that props up the airlines
View on Reddit #70093052

GrafZeppelin127@reddit

Or rather, there would be one, just not one that the proles could afford to partake in.
View on Reddit #70094487

goldman60@reddit

It would end commercial air travel, even for the rich imo. Commercial requires a tremendous amount of free infra to work, even for the ultra wealthy.
View on Reddit #70101329

GrafZeppelin127@reddit

Global airport revenues: ~$150 billion Global airport infrastructure spending: ~$50 billion Global air traffic control costs: ~$10 billion So, call it $210 billion and round up to a cool quarter trillion for miscellaneous costs. The world spends about $970 billion on air travel, so adding $250 billion to it would increase the costs by about a quarter. Air travel is very cheap, in a historical context, but bumping it up by about 25% would absolutely price a lot of people out of it.
View on Reddit #70102250

goldman60@reddit

Ending government subsidy would also entail things like taxing SFO like private property, levying income taxes on airports, etc. private industry would also need to buy airport property off the tax districts/cities/counties etc that currently own them at fair market value.
View on Reddit #70110954

GrafZeppelin127@reddit

Quite. Hence the “miscellaneous.” Government operations and private operations tend to have different sorts of fixed and variable costs, and taxes can play a big part of that.
View on Reddit #70111035

euph_22@reddit

They are. Most of their funding comes from industry specific fees and taxes.
View on Reddit #70094627

Sophey68@reddit

Why not privatise the whole FAA
View on Reddit #70092915

qalpi@reddit

I think that is the ultimate plan. A public private partnership like NATS in the UK
View on Reddit #70093298

gregariouspilot@reddit

Our small all volunteer flying club at KOAK is sending food to the controllers a few times per week. They’re a great bunch.
View on Reddit #70108889

PCLoadPLA@reddit

As a passenger, is there a tip jar or hotline where we can help our ATCs? On second thought, fuck that; our government is supposed to be taking care of them and if we start tipping our ATC the government would just let us and keep enriching the megarich and ATCs being paid in tips to prevent starving would become the norm. The ATC should just strike. I'll gladly take the train for a while to...oh shit, they defunded the trains a generation ago and there aren't any.
View on Reddit #70102418

Anti-redtard@reddit

ATC went on strike.....once. They were fired, 11,000 workers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968) Federal workers are prohibited from striking.....fired and then prohibited from future employment. https://www.govexec.com/management/2019/01/why-feds-dont-strike/154438/
View on Reddit #70108735

ProgressExcellent609@reddit

Nice. But pathetic. You can only eat ao many peanuts.
View on Reddit #70104650

booster1000@reddit

Oh but that Savory Snack Mix 🤤
View on Reddit #70106563

ProgressExcellent609@reddit

🤣
View on Reddit #70107819

VileInventor@reddit

Fucking insanity that we’re still closed. These poor ATC workers man. Their jobs sucks.
View on Reddit #70107005

SupremeChancellor@reddit

Hahaha airlines had to step in to pay federal workers but dont you dare speak about politics!
View on Reddit #70101116

Rip_Off_Your_Toenail@reddit

mods when asked why this is happening: "Idk maybe the airlines just thought they were hungry for whatever reason haha. government? funding? never heard of it. made up terms."
View on Reddit #70106323

Power-Equality@reddit (OP)

:o
View on Reddit #70101807

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]
View on Reddit #70104940

AutoModerator@reddit

To reduce political fighting this post or comment has been filtered for approval. Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments can result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aviation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
View on Reddit #70104941

lizard_king0000@reddit

TSA saw great support during the last diaper don shutdown. This time the citizens are in much worse shape. Pretty soon they will not be able to afford gas to get to work so lines will get long
View on Reddit #70104387

DoctorWhiskey@reddit

My flying club sent chic fil a breakfast today to the tower. We will probably do it again next week. We love BNA tower. Lot of great folks working there (for free!).
View on Reddit #70101945

Available-Average437@reddit

Non septic tank (yank) here. Work with no pay, no fucking way. Clown country.
View on Reddit #70101563

Mylabisawesome@reddit

Great..giving them all the biscoffs
View on Reddit #70094961

climb-via-is-stupid@reddit

I’d take a pallet of biscoffs over pizzas… again… for the fourth time this week.
View on Reddit #70100156

MightBeAGoodIdea@reddit

Why does the article word it kinda like the airlines paying for food for workers seems like it might be bending the rules in doing so? Is it seen as bribery or something...? (I am but a casual redditor that follows this sub, sorry of this is a well known thing)
View on Reddit #70098839

AprilDruid@reddit

It's the unions. Airlines probably couldn't do this . 
View on Reddit #70099821

PadinnPlays@reddit

Interesting from a federal employee ethics perspective.
View on Reddit #70098200

Big_OOOO@reddit

Chicken or pasta?
View on Reddit #70097342

aerohk@reddit

Cookies
View on Reddit #70097595

Wikadood@reddit

DOA is feeding the LAS teams and tsa
View on Reddit #70096820

sorrymizzjackson@reddit

It’s better than bending metal because necessary personnel can’t afford food. It’s gonna be pizza. It’s always pizza, but at least there’s that.
View on Reddit #70095674

Shallot_True@reddit

Leon may not be getting any larger…
View on Reddit #70093232

dman928@reddit

But there’s a sale at Penny’s…..
View on Reddit #70095355

pornborn@reddit

I hope ATC know that “We The People” feel your pain. We are getting the same treatment from the Republican CONTROLLED Congress.
View on Reddit #70093119

OptiGuy4u@reddit

The Dems choose to starve kids instead of passing a spending bill. Yeah, it's time to nuke the filibuster so we can get a reasonable spending bill passed without liberal cockblocking. Then it REALLY will be a Republican controlled Congress. 🤞🏻
View on Reddit #70093524

ITDummy69420@reddit

You’re a literal mouth breathing moron, bot, a Russian bot, or all three. 
View on Reddit #70094040

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

I told you to be nice, why can’t you be nice.
View on Reddit #70094457

pornborn@reddit

You’re a fool to believe that.
View on Reddit #70093622

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

Your comment has been removed for breaking the r/aviation rules. This subreddit is open for civil, friendly discussion about our common interest, aviation. Excessively rude, mean, unfriendly, or hostile conduct is not permitted. Any form of racism or hate speech will not be tolerated. If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail.
View on Reddit #70094065

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

This content was removed for breaking the r/aviation rules. This subreddit is dedicated to aviation and the discussion of aviation, not politics and religion. For discussion of these subjects, please choose a more appropriate subreddit. If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail. Thank you for participating in the r/aviation community.
View on Reddit #70094045

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

This content was removed for breaking the r/aviation rules. This subreddit is dedicated to aviation and the discussion of aviation, not politics and religion. For discussion of these subjects, please choose a more appropriate subreddit. If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail. Thank you for participating in the r/aviation community.
View on Reddit #70094033

bobre737@reddit

This country is a joke.
View on Reddit #70094072

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

I told you to be nice, why can’t you be nice.
View on Reddit #70094398

metalgtr84@reddit

Maybe Argentina can loan us some of that money back?
View on Reddit #70092040

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

This content was removed for breaking the r/aviation rules. This subreddit is dedicated to aviation and the discussion of aviation, not politics and religion. For discussion of these subjects, please choose a more appropriate subreddit. If you believe this was a mistake, please message the moderators through modmail. Thank you for participating in the r/aviation community.
View on Reddit #70094003

AlcibiadesTheCat@reddit

At 24.99% interest, of course.
View on Reddit #70093878

LydonBainesJohnson@reddit

Stop posting the same shit everywhere it’s spam
View on Reddit #70091651

TheDrMonocle@reddit

Are you new to reddit? Because this is what reddit is for and cross posting is just a normal part of it.
View on Reddit #70093486

Power-Equality@reddit (OP)

I suspect that certain people see this kind of information, thinks it makes “their side” look bad, and feel upset seeing other folks talking about it. They comment things like this maybe as a form to keep cognitive dissonance at bay.
View on Reddit #70093777

Sc_e1@reddit

«Why do people post so much about current big events»
View on Reddit #70092438

flying_wrenches@reddit

Trying to get ahead of the ball. Read our politics rule. Be nice. Happy Halloween :)
View on Reddit #70093770