ATC: Where TF are you guys physically located???
Posted by snoutpower@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 84 comments
Newer PPL here and when I'm flying with flight following and get passed off to a new ATC freq. I often wonder where these controllers are physically located. Are you at other airports? Are you in some office building that is receiving transmissions and just shooting them back to us? Are you even physically near by? I'm miffed and just can't find a google answer. Is it possible to tour an ATC facility? (not a tower, which I've done at our local GA airport). For reference, I'm based out of KFUL and usually start on 125.35. Thanks!!
JJohnston015@reddit
The Albuquerque TRACON is across town from the airport. Check it out on Google Earth. The address is 8000 Louisiana Blvd. NE.
droptrack97@reddit
That’s Albuquerque Center. The Tracon is at the base of the tower at the airport.
CorrectZone3945@reddit
Socal is located in Kearny Mesa road San Diego near USMCAS and Norcal is located in Sacramento. LA center is located in Palmdale. Smaller facilities such as Santa Barbara approach is located on the same building as the tower.
lgbguy@reddit
Say 🖕 to Johnny for me. I’m AJO based primarily.
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
Lolol. Dude, I want to tell him that so bad. He's so unprofessional and unnecessary. I'm not sure if his hours got cut but from what I hear, he's only working Saturdays and infrequently. There is Tammy and a couple other dudes that are A LOT more pleasant.
lgbguy@reddit
He’s way past retirement age. Every time he snaps at me for no reason, I request a phone number and have him pull the tapes. I hotline every unprofessional thing he says.
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
I didn't know you could do that. I'd like to know more about that. Lol. Not sure if you're ever looking for a flying buddy, but I'm always looking for more people to fly with. AJO is close as you know... Would be easy to get to.
lgbguy@reddit
Communication goes both ways. Tower can hand out a phone number to discuss an unsafe or irritating operation. Pilot can do the same.
I’m not flying much nowadays as a recreational pilot or an instructor. I’m mostly just teaching CFIs and doing evaluations for practical tests.
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
Who is the phone number for? A FSDO?
lgbguy@reddit
Tower number to discuss what happened.
snafu0390@reddit
Since you’re flying out of Fullerton, 125.35 will be SoCal Tracon. 9175 Kearny Villa Rd San Diego, CA 92126 Google SoCal Tracon and you can find the general phone number. Tell them you want to schedule a tour. It’s super easy. When I was an instructor I used to take my students to towers, tracons, and centers.
Mackin-N-Cheese@reddit
I love that the day care center there is called "FAA Merry Go Around".
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
MaterialInevitable83@reddit
It may be hard to get a tour. Since they control so much airspace, I assume security is very tight. Like, probably close to Pentagon tight.
Tanner_Glass_Is_Good@reddit
lol no. It’s tight in the sense that there’s armed guard and you aren’t going to be able to just drive up and walk in but not tight that it would be impossible for you to get in the building if you planned ahead of time. I forgot the actual timeline but you need to reach out like a week in advance for security to vet you a little bit but there’s tours all the time it won’t be an issue. You’ll have a guide with you while you’re in the building but it’s really not that serious. Centers require a higher security clearance to work in so theoretically LA center would have more security holes to jump through but not much.
Again, wait until we’re getting paid again but you’ll have no problem getting a tour after that.
JustA_FewBumps@reddit
Probably smart to wait until they're getting paid, though, lol
MaterialInevitable83@reddit
Yes for sure
LeagueResponsible985@reddit
SoCal Approach is on the grounds of MCAS Miramar in San Diego. LA Center is out near Palmdale.
swakid8@reddit
Depends on the Facilities. Usually Center controllers are all in a big facilities near major cities
(Fort Worth Center located in a facility behind AA Flight Academy, AA Corportate/FA Hotel, AA operations center)
(Houston Center located on JFK Blvd going into IAH).
TRACON is in separate facilities. Sometimes in their own build or are the bottom of a control tower.
Pancakes6877@reddit
Most smaller airports are “up-downs” meaning the approach control is at the base of the tower and staffed by the same group of controllers.
Larger TRACONs and most centers are usually not on airport property. In your case, SoCal approach is in San Diego and LA center is in Palmdale.
https://123atc.com/facilities has a complete list with addresses.
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
So, if the TRACON I'm talking to is much further than my plane can transmit, I'm assuming I'm hitting a repeater or two between the TRACON location?
DankVectorz@reddit
The antennae are within range of you. Wires run from them to the Tracon.
old_flying_fart@reddit
"Wires"
microwave relays.
pattern_altitude@reddit
Their flair says ATC...
DankVectorz@reddit
We have microwave backups but hardwired primary
tailwheel307@reddit
Microwave backup. Like an Oven? That sounds toasty. Is that how you keep warm in those cold dungeons that have no natural light?
superspeck@reddit
Yes. If you were to stand in front of the transmitter horns, you could get toasty. When my grandpa was on deck watch in the North Atlantic during ww2, he used to stand in front of the radar dish for the extra heat.
AT&T long distance service back in the days before cellphones used to run on a nationwide network of microwave towers.
old_flying_fart@reddit
Even over the longer distances, like ASH to BOS?
DankVectorz@reddit
Yes.
old_flying_fart@reddit
TIL!
biggusfootusnz@reddit
A series of tubes.
Friendly-Gur-6736@reddit
As a controller who works on tube amps on the side, I was dismayed to find out that the FAA has eliminated all tube equipment as of about a decade ago. A large number of king range radar sites used them, but have all been converted to solid state now.
RogLatimer118@reddit
It's like the internet!
voretaq7@reddit
The Internet is not a big truck!
Friendly-Gur-6736@reddit
Used to be, most are hardwired today.
There is only microwave link left at the center I work at.
We completely lost a transmitter site a few weeks ago due to a lightening strike. Apparently it was the commercial Telco stuff that took the brunt of the damage and made it take about a week to repair.
Logical_Check2@reddit
Antennas not antennae.
DankVectorz@reddit
Antennae is acceptable plural form of antenna per Oxford
No-Series-3997@reddit
Ackshually everything is still point-to-point simplex, no repeaters. You're talking to a transmitter that is physically located far away from the TRACON/ARTCC and is wired back to it. This is part of why you might talk to ten different frequencies while transiting Kansas City Center, because you're skipping around between their different transmitter sites which are at least loosely affiliated with their control sectors.
mflboys@reddit
I appreciate your flair.
Even_Championship630@reddit
Hardwired via telecom to the vhf (AM) site. No repeater’s or tones, like what I have on the VHF fire department side.
LightPilotLifeguard@reddit
Yep. One time on an xc Boston center forgot to switch my frequency, and I went out of range. Eventually a United widebody had to relay my flight following cancellation to them
Computerized-Cash@reddit
Hold on now, a tower controller can do tracon and vice-versa?
anaqvi786@reddit
I’ve actually seen local control and TRACON be combined on a couple occasions. Happens at small facilities. One time the dude who was my tower controller said “switch to my frequency I’m also working departure”.
Friendly-Gur-6736@reddit
Happens on the mids, and I occasionally see it during slower periods during the day. I work airspace adjacent to GSO and the handoff indicator changes when they're working the radar from the tower cab.
omalley4n@reddit
I went to COS the other night, and that controller was working c/d, ground, tower, and approach.
Computerized-Cash@reddit
Cool stuff, I thought they were certified under tower, tracon, en route.
Leading-Pie1261@reddit
In an Up-Down facility, controllers are usually cross trained between local, ground/clearance and TRACON
Computerized-Cash@reddit
Hmmm interesting. Is there a list of these types of operations? I would like to know about my local Class C.
Friendly-Gur-6736@reddit
BNA, LIT, CLT, ROA, RDU, GSO, BHM, CHA, etc ...
Most of your class Cs not located near (>50-75nm) from a Bravo are usually up/downs. Some Bravos still are, but a significant number the tower has been made stand alone. MEM, for instance, the TRACON is still physically located at the base of the tower, but are two independent facilities. But go to Atlanta (A80) and the radar facility is located about 20 miles from the airport in Peachtree City. That building also has radar for MCN and CSG as well.
Then you get into larger regional TRACONs like Potomac. Contains DCA, IAD and BWI, plus RIC, CHO, ADW, etc... It is pretty expansive. But it is located in Warrenton, VA, a fair distance from most of those airports save IAD.
druuuval@reddit
If you have a towered field you frequent, call em up and go visit. Take snacks. We are based at a semi-remote Class C so you can hear them moving around between the radar, ground or tower stations if your flight is longer than an hour.
Also be ready for feedback. I have never asked for special VFR since my visit. Just took one conversation to see how much work it meant for them. Just to get out to a practice area, we’ll file and get on top. And pick up the local to get back down if needed. All I knew before was it was available so I asked for it. Now I know better.
Leading-Pie1261@reddit
On the ATC123 site, the category Towers with Approach Control is the list of Up Downs
TAMExSTRANGE69@reddit
Tower: At the airport
Up/down (tower with tracon: at the airport with the tracon at the base of the tower.
Tracon (terminal radar approach facility): In a building somewhere in the area of the medium to small airspace they serve usually nearby a major city and control a specific city. Could be far from a airport and control multiple airports.
Center: somewhere nearby/outside the biggest city in the massive/multiple state area they serve. Massive facility in nearby town. Controllers are talking planes multiple states away and work high altitude airspace with certain sectors working low airspace and satellite airports with no tower or approach.
Call the number on 123ATC and 99% of the time they would be happy to.
snoutpower@reddit (OP)
This is one of the best replies. Very comprehensive. Thanks!
TxAggieMike@reddit
For the north Texas Area….
Lone Star Approach (D10) is in a building at the base of the center tower of KDFW airport.
Fort Worth Center (ZFW) is located near intersection of US 183 and US 97. Not far from American Airlines HQ.
Pilot0160@reddit
CFI here. The vast majority of approach controllers are located at the primary airport the airspace serves and often at the base of the tower. Two notable variances are Cascade Approach in Oregon which covers two areas of airspace that are physically separated and Seattle Center works the airspace in between. The other is Spokane Approach which covers GEG and YKM but has Grant County Approach in between at MWH.
Center controllers cover a lot more airspace so that varies more. Some are located in the same city they’re named after such as Indianapolis Center or they could be in a completely different state. Boston Center is in Nashua, New Hampshire.
Schmitty21@reddit
Spokane also works PSC area and MSO.
Pilot0160@reddit
I forgot they work MSO! Thanks!
Puzzleheaded_Sea5976@reddit
Another notable variance is Big Sky Approach in Boise, which covers KBOI as well as KBZN, 293 miles NE in Montana.
Kseries2497@reddit
I don't know about a "vast majority." There are more controllers in up/downs (2,566) than at dedicated TRACONS (1,459), but the up/downs are using a portion of those people to run the tower. And a handful of up/downs aren't even collocated.
vyqz@reddit
en route is at a "center" which is often not near an airport. flight dispatchers for companies are often not near an airport either lol. it's like watching that car insurance commercial of the girl saying "I just love working around cars all day", when insurance employees often never have to interact with a car in their career
Kseries2497@reddit
Now I want to know how many centers are located at an airport.
Not at airport: Albuquerque, Chicago, Boston, Washington, Denver, Fort Worth, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Miami, Minneapolis, Oakland, Cleveland, Seattle, Atlanta
At an airport: Anchorage (Elmendorf), Houston (Intercontinental), Indianapolis (Indianapolis), Los Angeles (Palmdale), Salt Lake (Salt Lake), Memphis (Memphis), New York (MacArthur), San Juan (San Juan), Guam (Agana), Honolulu (Honolulu, but on the Hickam side)
So that's 14 not at an airport, and 10 at an airport. A couple notes: ZMA is close to, but not at, Miami International. Some of the other centers are also close to (but not at) some little regional airport - Boston, Denver, Atlanta, for example. And the FAA doesn't call Honolulu CCF a center even though a) it functions as one and b) it's more of a center than Guam CERAP.
pilot3033@reddit
I'd probably count ZFW as being "at the airport" considering how close it is to DFW without being "on" the airport.
trying_to_adult_here@reddit
If ZFW had to be “at” somewhere, it’s basically at American Airlines corporate HQ, it’s pretty much in the middle of the campus.
Necessary_Topic_1656@reddit
it’s right outside the GSW airport.
teleterminal@reddit
Interestingly while LA center is at Palmdale, an airport. Palmdale regional does not support any scheduled passenger service nor can you land there without prior coordination.
Kseries2497@reddit
You might say the same about Honolulu, located within the secure area of Hickam AFB, Anchorage, located adjacent to but not within Elmendorf AFB, SoCal TRACON, adjacent to MCAS Miramar, or the approach portion of Shreveport ATCT, which is not collocated with its tower but rather ten miles away on Barksdale AFB.
lolitstrain21@reddit
Might be able to get a local tour with your local ATC. I was able to knowing one of my neighbors used to be a controller but is now a senior manager for the Miami facility. Super cool to see how the airspace works and what they can see. I even was able to listen in to what was going on.
GrandJunctionMarmots@reddit
Usually in the area but not right on top of the Airport. Seattle center is actually in Auburn, WA
Even_Championship630@reddit
SoCal tracon is next to Miramar off interstate 15. They have everything from the mountains south, for us low level guys. I fly out of F70 / French Valley
Leading-Pie1261@reddit
Except for Mugu and March (when it’s open)
Living_Guess_2845@reddit
Recommend listening to the Opposing Bases podcast during land-based commutes. Great insight for both sides of the mic!
Baystate411@reddit
Sometimes they are near the airport, sometimes they are not. Boston center and approach are both in New Hampshire.
voretaq7@reddit
I mean Newark is a “New York Area” airport. Everything is lies!
ALL LIES!
voretaq7@reddit
It varies, but you’ve seen Pushing Tin right?
Scenes of NY TRACON with a beautiful view of the beach?
The actual facility is inland, and located next to a waste-to-energy incinerator. Literally hot burning garbage.
It’s possible - you have to contact the facility and arrange it with them. Tell them you’re a student pilot and would like to know more about how things work behind the scenes. As long as they have space and adequate staff to have someone with you they’ll make it happen.
I know one of our local pilot clubs used to set up tours with NY TRACON semi-regularly.
As a visitor you’ll have to go through some security vetting for Obvious Reasons. As long as you’ve avoided any felony convictions that probably won’t be an issue.
Also it should go without saying but I’ll say it anyway: Now (during a government shutdown) is probably the wrong time to ask the supervisor if you can pop by for a visit to look around. Wait until they’ve all got their back pay and shit has returned to some semblance of normalcy before asking!
Semi-related: Get in touch with a local FAA Safety Team Lead Rep or FPM - they may be able to hook you up with a pre-planned tour or event at the facility you’re interested in.
duckbutterdelight@reddit
125.35 is the Beach sector of Coast area at SoCal Tracon which is located near Miramar in San Diego.
poisonandtheremedy@reddit
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tvEPpfEepB6aEKLe6?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy
SoCal TRACON is there.
biggusfootusnz@reddit
Sometimes at the airport, sometimes next to the controller you just talked to, sometimes thousands of Km away.
eliberatore@reddit
25-hr student here. I've wondered the same thing about locations. I would love a tour. KVBT-based.
BuzzTheTower12@reddit
Yes, it’s possible to tour an ATC facility. I’ve visited a few towers, and even an ARTCC. Just contact them and ask for a tour.
britishmetric144@reddit
This would probably be a better question for r/ATC.
Or you can go to this web page to see the location list.
Low_Sky_49@reddit
It depends on the facility. Some TRACONs are located on the airport, at the base of or in the lower levels of the control tower. Your TRACON (SoCal) isn’t. They’re here, in San Diego:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kzMpxELedVVjh8LU8?g_st=ipc
Discon777@reddit
You can look up the location of the actual ARTCC or TRACON… centers are in dedicated facilities, some TRACONs are too, while others are co-located within a larger ATC tower.
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
https://scauwg.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FAA-Facilities-Map-1-1-19-PDF-1.pdf
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Newer PPL here and when I'm flying with flight following and get passed off to a new ATC freq. I often wonder where these controllers are physically located. Are you at other airports? Are you in some office building that is receiving transmissions and just shooting them back to us? Are you even physically near by? I'm miffed and just can't find a google answer. Is it possible to tour an ATC facility? (not a tower, which I've done at our local GA airport). For reference, I'm based out of KFUL and usually start on 125.35. Thanks!!
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