UA "Spirit Clause" Frustration
Posted by SourGrapes2290@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 57 comments
Let me first say that I empathize with the Spirit situation. That said, I am at a ULCC, not Spirit, but not far behind them on their timeline. I feel pretty displeased that extremely low-time Spirit FOs are getting interviews, but basically no other ULCC pilots are. I'm talking bare minimum, sub-1000 turbine applicants with checkride failures.
It's extremely discouraging to have nearly double the time, 0 checkride failures, extras on the resume, plenty of networking, and feel as though UA doesn't want us because they're only taking NK guys. Not to mention my company is probably less than 2 years from bankruptcy, the fact that our industry is ruled by seniority, etc. It feels hopeless, and is souring me on my desire to work for UA. I get it; we look out for each other, but I am afraid that I'll be left to toil at my current airline until we're bankrupt, and then what? Where will the support be then when the hiring is dried up, the growth and retirements behind us?
Sigh. Anyone else frustrated by the "let's just hire all of spirit's pilots" stuff going on?
JoshFlak@reddit
You have a job they don’t, are you at f9?
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
Yes
JoshFlak@reddit
Hmh didn’t consider if they were going bankrupt, why do you think that?
Ludicrous_speed77@reddit
Probably because Scott kirby said so.
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
What makes you think they will go under?
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
Be sure to bring that up in the interview! I'm sure that will go well. And in case it isn't blatantly obvious, to answer your question about "I'll be left to toil at my current airline until we're bankrupt, and then what?", then the very obvious answer is the same thing that happens at
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
Well my company's path to bankruptcy is about 24 months timeline. By then the hiring is likely to be much slimmer and all this "let's help them out" feel good fanfare will be nowhere to be found and we'll be forced out of the industry is my concern.
Ludicrous_speed77@reddit
You can start a fortune telling business with that crystal ball of yours.
OnigiriEnthusiast@reddit
You have no idea what hiring will look like in 24 months. People dont know what hiring will look like next quarter. American isnt going to peak in retirements until something like 2028/29
Accomplished_Beat418@reddit
Imagine bragging about no checkride failures during primary training.
Who’s the better candidate, the pilot who overcame a challenge and succeeded, or the knight whose armor was never touched in battle - still yet to see if it’ll break at the first blow?
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
I mean that’s a very eloquent way to say failure is good.
Accomplished_Beat418@reddit
You never fail if you keep going - you either succeed or you learn.
The only way to fail is to give up and walk away.
Ill_Rush9159@reddit
Not to mention the standards from DPE to DPE is never the same. Not all go by the “ACS standard”
I’m sure there are many with no failures that have slipped up but didn’t get a pink slip for it
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
There is a lot to unpack here, OP….
May be do some self reflecting is all that’s worth saying
DepressedFoool@reddit
I heard they actually PREFER for an applicant to have a failure because it is something to talk about in the interview, what they learned,how they overcame it. And that no checkride failure people are boring.
KCPilot17@reddit
You still have a job. Many of those guys don't/won't. Wrong battle to choose my man.
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
My company is rapidly on its way to bankruptcy. And even if true, you're ignoring that our lives are ruled by seniority. Why are they more deserving of the job than anyone else with the same qualifications? Again, this is coming from someone at a ulcc that is 24 months *max* from bankruptcy. I'm frustrated.
I guess UA is a jobs program now.
findquasar@reddit
If your company were actually filing for bankruptcy, you wouldn’t want any preferential hiring?
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
There won't *be* any "preferential hiring" when my company goes bankruptcy is my point, because when it happens hiring will be far slimmer.
duaIinput@reddit
My magic 8 ball says yours is wrong.
findquasar@reddit
Kirby wants to have a pilot group of over 30,000. They have 18,000.
I mean, that’s fine for you to have that opinion. If I had to guess where you are, and you think your best shot at getting hired somewhere is without having any additional points on your resume based on need, and purely competing against all 4000 of your peers, on top of 20,000 regional pilots, plus the military, Godspeed.
Otherwise, be thankful for your paycheck and start working on things to enhance your resume. I’m sure there are plenty of people who can give you some advice there.
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
Never gonna happen. They will top out at 20k
findquasar@reddit
You’re basing this on what?
Why don’t you let everyone here help you, instead of being bitter?
Education? TT? TPIC? Volunteer work? Been to any hiring events? Which company did your resume? LORs?
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
4 yr degree. 3800 TT, 0 TPIC. 3 years of volunteer work at OBAP. Been to 7 hiring fairs since 2023. 3+ LORs internal to each of the big 3.
findquasar@reddit
Okay, so something’s… not right here.
Training record? Interview prep?
Have you ever received the Hogan or the thing Delta does, or just crickets after you meet with a recruiter?
ILikeFlyingAlot@reddit
I read the post and have a funny feeling, I can guess what’s not right….
findquasar@reddit
If whining and being frustrated solely made people unhirable, there would be no pilots.
Most of us have been where OP is. We maybe didn’t attribute people losing their jobs to why we couldn’t get hired, but we’ve all been frustrated by airline hiring.
ILikeFlyingAlot@reddit
It’s not the frustration, but self importance.
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
It's always that. Keep doing what you're doing. I was told that I could expect an interview soon with United by a friend that works in hiring there based on how my last meet and greet went, but still crickets. I assume because they only want NK right now.
findquasar@reddit
People are still getting results from the latest hiring fairs. All of this moves at the speed of molasses.
Aside from your TT, has your resume otherwise changed in the last three years, or since you started volunteering? Might be time to explore some additional options, especially leadership opportunities, etc. They don’t even have to be aviation-related.
Still unanswered: Have you had your resume done professionally? How is your training record?
redcatjoe@reddit
I know someone who needed 4000TT with 1000TPIC and no training failures to get hired at a legacy in 2023. 🤷♂️
The ways of the hiring department are strange and mysterious.
FlowerGeneral2576@reddit
It’s all over, pack it up. The last pilot has been hired. Anyone have the number for that truck driving school?
Guysmiley777@reddit
Truck Masters I think it was?
prex10@reddit
OP is a 3 hour old account. Don't fall for their bait
KFIN_flyer@reddit
I feel for your frustration OP. Regards: 2000 hour CFI with no prospects until 2027.
SevenFortySwole@reddit
Brother you have a job. You also have no clue what your company will do in 24 month let alone the rest of the industry. I left spirit before I got furloughed and my entire class has a job at UA. I’m happy for them. Am I jealous a bit? Sure. But to sit there while you’re employed complaining about how people who are losing their entire livelihoods are getting jobs is a bit ridiculous.
It’s also not a guarantee hire. I know 5 people that are way low time that got the interview and did not get a CJO. Hell, my buddy that was a class senior to me at spirit. No one in his class is getting a call. I don’t think you realize that it’s still competitive it’s not a layup for a job.
Picklemerick23@reddit
You’re stranded at sea in 2 life boats, one yellow and one green. The yellow one starts to sink with half the occupants in the water and the other half struggling to stay on the boat. The green one, still floating, could sink, but it isn’t.
Meanwhile, a Royal Caribbean cruise liner shows up to rescue everyone.
Using your logic, you want the cruise ship to rescue you, in a perfectly good life boat, while other people are in the water or about to be in the later.
It’s flawed logic.
And flawed logic won’t get you very far.. maybe in politics. But not aviation and def not r/flying.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Aww boo hoo
SourGrapes2290@reddit (OP)
My job is one of the least desired in the industry on a dogshit contract with hostile management running us to bankruptcy, all while commuting. Sorry if I'm just a little jaded that I am not able to improve my life because of some feel-good clause in a SENIORITY dictated industry. Typical COVID hire behavior of you, troll.
Baystate411@reddit
....and you went there!
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
And dude, YOU only got hired because of COVID.
OnigiriEnthusiast@reddit
That feel-good clause is to protect fellow union workers to remain gainfully employed you chode. I'm sure if you were on the end of a furlough stick, you'd greatly appreciate other union airlines moving you to the front so you could ya know... feed your fucking family.
YOU sound like the entitled covid hired bruh. Learn about the industry more and maybe you'll realize why these clauses exist. Clown ass post 🤡
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
I was hired before COVID
But you’re not making yourself look any bit of good and no one feels bad for you. You could always go to a wholly owned regional if you want better job security
EdBasqueMaster@reddit
You are not going to get very much sympathy with this one…
HawaiiClipper@reddit
hey hey hey. you're only allowed to think that, not say it.
JPAV8R@reddit
Dude part of being in a union is looking out for your brothers and sisters. Part of being a pilot in general is looking out for your fellow pilots.
When their ship is sinking it’s our moral obligation to throw them a life boat. I hope all Spirit pilots that want a new place find it before anyone is hired.
Being upset that some person who hopped on the wrong ship, has to endure first year pay, and maybe uprooting their family is getting your spot is bullshit.
When your ULCC is laying off and soon to declare bankruptcy then you’ll go in front of other pilots who feel it’s their time. In the meantime just keep going to work and being glad there is a work to go to.
Anthem00@reddit
honestly, I seriously doubt thats the case. They dont have any more affinity to Spirit pilots than any other company not affiliated with them. They will take the best candidates for them, regardless of who they work for. I think you're trying to project your frustration on to a situation that probably isnt what you think it is.
KissFromYourMommy@reddit
Not true. United is officially offering preferential hiring to furloughed spirit pilots
clearingmyprop@reddit
I’m not necessarily mad at it or annoyed but it’s just slightly concerning knowing I’m competing with so many more pilots in that pool than normal if they weren’t furloughing.
Sucks for us but it’s amazing for them. I’d rather have them getting jobs and saving them from being unemployed when I am still happily employed
MyPilotInterview@reddit
From my vantage point it’s not quite happening as you described. Lots of pilots outside of Spirit are being hired, lots of Spirit guys are not being hired.
The only secret sauce I know in pilot hiring is patience - so much of it is on their end and variable - be patient and your time will come.
NevadaTellMeTheOdds@reddit
Well I think if you get an interview at any legacy, good luck. Not very supportive of the industry here with this post, but it’s your post.
BosoxH60@reddit
You sound like a treat to fly with. Can’t imagine why you’re not getting a call.
FlowerGeneral2576@reddit
Well in two years when your airline goes under, I’m sure you’ll feel very thankful when a major airline gives you preferential hiring so you don’t have to do DoorDash deliveries to make ends meet.
ndem763@reddit
At least you're still at a LCC. Plenty of people with more time than that, volunteering, internal recs, advanced degrees, clean records getting furloughed at Spirit and going 135, regional, or have nothing lined up at all. There's seemingly no rhyme or reason
srbmfodder@reddit
There are also people at Spirit with a ton of time even in the left seat not getting called. I see where our hires came from weekly and Spirit isn't any more proportional than anyone else. We are hiring a ton of military. I'm at one of the big 3 is all I will say.
pilot_1999@reddit
Plenty of guys and girls from my class at my ULCC are getting attention from delta and United ¯_(ツ)_/¯ right around the 3000TT 2000 121 mark
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Let me first say that I empathize with the Spirit situation. That said, I am at a ULCC, not Spirit, but not far behind them on their timeline. I feel pretty displeased that extremely low-time Spirit FOs are getting interviews, but basically no other ULCC pilots are. I'm talking bare minimum, sub-1000 turbine applicants with checkride failures.
It's extremely discouraging to have nearly double the time, 0 checkride failures, extras on the resume, plenty of networking, and feel as though UA doesn't want us because they're only taking NK guys. Not to mention my company is probably less than 2 years from bankruptcy, the fact that our industry is ruled by seniority, etc. It feels hopeless, and is souring me on my desire to work for UA. I get it; we look out for each other, but I am afraid that I'll be left to toil at my current airline until we're bankrupt, and then what? Where will the support be then when the hiring is dried up, the growth and retirements behind us?
Sigh. Anyone else frustrated by the "let's just hire all of spirit's pilots" stuff going on?
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