Your opinion: are we blue collar?
Posted by SubSoar@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 356 comments
I got into a fairly heated debate with a buddy over this, so I’m curious what you all have to say.
Would you consider pilots to be blue collar? Would you consider flying to be a trade? I probably would. I can agree that different pilot jobs might be more blue collar than others, i.e airlines/corporate vs. ag pilots. What about CFIs? Just curious what you guys think.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Depends on the type of flying obviously. Bush pilots are definitely blue collar
Joutz98@reddit
If I ever claimed to be blue collar as a pilot I would fully expect to get ridiculed to the point of never wanting to speak again
Ram_Rod8@reddit
Pilots typically have Semi-blue collar behaviors but on white collar wages.
Difficult-Put9586@reddit
A wise captain once told me the difference between a blue collar job and a white collar job....
If you wash your hands after you go to the bathroom, you're white collar.
If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom, you're blue collar.
GMTmeister@reddit
Pay is not blue collar, the start for sure is!
Expensive-Claim-7830@reddit
I work construction and I fly every weekend! What would that make me?
bottomfeeder52@reddit
SOFT HANDS BROTHER. 75 FRESKING HOURS A MONTH? TRY THE JOBSITE AT 75HRS A WEEK
Gato1425@reddit
I remember my first part time job. lol
dudechickendude@reddit
Abso-fucking-lutely NOT blue collar. Sure, it takes a lot of training, dollars, dedication, dollars, knowledge, and last but not least, dollars. But once you get to the job you want as a pilot, $150-200k is the low end of the scale. Blue collar workers top out at 150k.
Gato1425@reddit
mmmm most A&P at a a major airline start at 100k and top out at 145-160k. Between field trips and OT, it’s not un common for guys to hit 250k.
JarlWeaslesnoot@reddit
A&P here. If I hear a pilot refer to itself as blue collar I'm gonna kick its ass. Yall are as white collar as it comes.
Milk_Dud@reddit
But then you'll have to MEL my ass, with more paperwork. Suit yourself
Gato1425@reddit
lol I’ll MEL your APU.
Puzzleheaded-Try-782@reddit
What if you’re a pilot with an A&P?
Gato1425@reddit
Most of those will either tell you they are a Pilot that happens to have an a&p, or a Mechanic that happens to have a pilot license. Very few have actually worked as both.
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Well you can kick my ass as soon as you finish fixing my plane. ;)
JarlWeaslesnoot@reddit
Once before I fix it for diagnostic, once after for an ops check
FriskyFritos@reddit
Do you want a coke while you’re here?
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Coffee and peanuts please. Thank you. BTW, how’s the temperature back there?
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Then I have time to get lunch first.
Appropriate_Act_4468@reddit
Cringe
Traquer@reddit
"Itself" lol cracked me up. Point taken! I do think pilots are in between, because most white collar jobs let you slack off and not on the ball majority of the time, whereas with pilots it's like a blue collar where the job needs to be DONE each day to the same standard, and there's no politics or delegating of work, it's all up to you to do it with your hands and your brain.
SparrowFate@reddit
Bro they have foot rests in the cockpits and have flight attendants who bring them snacks and drinks mid flight. That shits white collar.
Brambleshire@reddit
White collar doesn't mean comfortable, it means offices and desk work.
Kemerd@reddit
I think pilots probably wear literal white collars probably more than any other profession, even nowadays the only people who wear suits or uniforms are lawyers, doctors, and finance bros
Bogusscreenname@reddit
If I make money only when I punch the clock for The Man, I’m blue collar. Airline pilots only get paid when they clock in = blue collar. A nice, clean blue collar, but still. Don’t fool yourself. A CEO that makes hundreds while they take a crap = white collar.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
I’ve been saying a long time, don’t let the white shirt fool you, airline pilots are the highest-paid blue-collar workers out there. And union strong!
Jeau_Jeau@reddit
We are grey collar.
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Not gold collar?
“Gold collar jobs refer to highly skilled, often high-paying professional and technical roles that require significant expertise, such as doctors, lawyers, and engineers.”
Facelessroids@reddit
No, that’s doctors, lawyers and engineers
topdollar38@reddit
As an engineer, I wish I made what doctors, lawyers, or legacy airline pilots make.
skyHawk3613@reddit
I know a guy who was a 30 year legacy captain, flying wide-bodies until he retired. He was make $600k a year without trying too hard.
Ari179@reddit
This is pretty standard and sounds about right, about any 5 year captain could easily make this at my legacy. 800-1000 is where the real try hards land.
Bogusscreenname@reddit
A 5 year Captain “easily” makes $600k?
Ari179@reddit
The pay difference between a year 2 to a maxed out 12 CA is under 30/hr. The rest is just schedule flexibility and how much you’re willing to work.
Bogusscreenname@reddit
I… uhhhhh…. Just happen to know a 30 year wide body Captain at a legacy carrier. Here are the pay rates at said carrier. In order for that pilot to “easily make $600k”, he’d have to fly 1290 hours. Last I checked, said pilots can fly a max of 1000 hours in a year, but rarely do. More like 70-75/month. 75x12x$465= $418,500. A long way from “easily $600”. Crap…. Can’t figure out how to post a picture here
Bogusscreenname@reddit
Here’s a link to APC pay rates, which, by the way, are wrong
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/united_airlines
Ari179@reddit
I don’t need you to post UA rates I know exactly what they are because all 3 of us have snap up clauses… If your widebody friend wants to stay more at home and earn less that’s his choice. I’m not gonna write a thousand page post on how we make our money but I’m at AA which is usually the “lower” paying of the legacies and I know what I earn… so I’m sure he could make that easily too. Go make friends with one of our guys and ask him to explain IMAX to you if you want to come here and make the same.
Bogusscreenname@reddit
30 year wide body legacy Captain here. I must be doing something wrong, cuz I don’t make that kind of money.
yogaengineer@reddit
Mood lol
Thhe_Shakes@reddit
This. We (engineers) have a much higher floor than most jobs, but not that high of a ceiling relatively speaking.
PretendProfession393@reddit
Ceiling isn't in the flight levels, eh?
Thhe_Shakes@reddit
We're more like BKN150 haha
Alixadoray@reddit
Had a buddy explain the payscale of an engineer as "You'll never be rich, but you'll never be broke." Seems fitting.
Thhe_Shakes@reddit
Accurate. Better starting pay than pretty much any other 4-year degree, but I'll be lucky to ever make half of what the average doctor or legacy captain does.
cirroc0@reddit
Clearly, he never worked in the oil sands.
fighterace00@reddit
My engineer co-worker just quit engineering for the airlines... I have more flight certs than he does...
Reedee73@reddit
As a lawyer with an engineering undergrad, I wish I made what engineers do.
gromm93@reddit
Capital P professionals.
I think we're not far off that.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Usually Professionals have a self regulating body.
Pilots have the exact opposite of a self regulating body.
Wasatcher@reddit
One could make the argument that surgeons are grey collar while less hands on medicine is gold or white collar. Surgeons could be standing at the operating table using full brain power for 12+ hours during more invasive procedures. All while requiring dexterity up there with welders drawing the slickest beads on earth. Sounds a lot more brutal than monitoring instruments on a long haul.
Pizzashillsmom@reddit
So what is the difference between good collar and white collar?
LookoutBel0w@reddit
We make more per hour worked than all 3 of those. The definition of gold collar expands more to say the operation stops if you’re not there. I think that’s us
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
Those all require advanced university degrees, flying is an on the job apprenticeship
LookoutBel0w@reddit
I’d argue type ratings / 121 indoc are advanced training
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
They're not a diploma and are strictly limited to that job. A law or engineering degree will get you into jobs that may have little to do with your degree subject in places like finance or think tanks or academia or politics.
A pilot is a subject matter expert on operating aircraft.
LookoutBel0w@reddit
Ok.
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
Doctors regularly get pilot licences for fun. Pilots don't go through medical school on the side for fun
LookoutBel0w@reddit
A private pilot, not an ATP with type ratings. You’re silly.
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
You're getting buthurt over me explaining what is already laid out and commonly accepted.
MapleKerman@reddit
It is not commonly accepted that having a PPL is the same as being an airline pilot. Lmao.
LookoutBel0w@reddit
The upvotes don’t agree lol.
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
Reddit is a low IQ hive mind
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
You're a low IQ hive mind.
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
How many doctors do you know who got ATP for fun?
JPAV8R@reddit
I’ve flown for doctors who were also type rated in their jets.
Anthem00@reddit
as much as you want to, I think its a stretch to argue a type rating or 121 indoc is comparable to a law degree, or medical degree. . . Also, going further, you know as well as I do - that the people who went through and became docs (and a few other professions), the large majority of the professional pilot population has no chance in ever completing at the same or similar level.
Spark_Ignition_6@reddit
The amount of training and experience it takes to get to the end of a 121 indoc is definitely comparable to a law or medical degree. I'd say the bigger difference is pilots don't do or require as much continuing education as doctors (e.g. residency).
Total_Midwit_Death@reddit
lmao
Pizzashillsmom@reddit
So what is the difference between good collar and white collar?
bathtubtuna_@reddit
Maybe but I would say pilots are a bit different than those. Maybe more similar to a surgeon than a normal doctor since both revolve around a physical skill rather than primarily knowledge/education based.
But all of this is semantics which is kind of pointless.
Easy_Money_@reddit
I take your point but I’m not sure I agree with the analogy since surgeons are usually close to the top of their med school classes
Prize_Armadillo3551@reddit
Source? Maybe you’re thinking of neurosurgeons. Top of the class would be those obtaining those highly sought specialties.
bathtubtuna_@reddit
My comment was not in any way looking down on surgeons (or pilots) I was merely saying that the occupation of surgeons and pilots share the fact that there is a literal physical skill that is required and you need coordination and dexterity to be good at it rather than essentially just relying on knowledge and education.
I also wasn't saying that the other professions require no physical skills nor that surgeons/pilots don't require knowledge and education.
You seem extremely defensive and on edge for some reason, take a deep breath...
I even said that it is all a dumb semantic distinction anyway.
Easy_Money_@reddit
no worries, I got the general gist, agreed that it’s pointless ontology anyway
dark_troy_10@reddit
My wife is a surgeon and she would disagree as well. She says the surgery is the hard part. It's the knowledge of knowing when and when not to operate that's the hard part.
bathtubtuna_@reddit
Relax bro.
You guys are looking for something to be offended about...or maybe you were just trying to humble-brag about your wife?
Ill just copy my reply to the other guy:
My comment was not in any way looking down on surgeons (or pilots) I was merely saying that the occupation of surgeons and pilots share the fact that there is a literal physical skill that is required and you need coordination and dexterity to be good at it rather than essentially just relying on knowledge and education.
I also wasn't saying that the other professions require no physical skills nor that surgeons/pilots don't require knowledge and education.
I even said that it is all a dumb semantic distinction anyway.
dark_troy_10@reddit
It's all good.
HeruCtach@reddit
Isn't this pretty close to pro pilots saying that the actual flying is the easy part? Like you said in the OP, it varies on profession. But many airline pilots don't even do much hand-flying in comparison to all the other responsibilities.
__joel_t@reddit
Reminds me of the saying, "A superior pilot exercises superior judgement to avoid situations requiring superior skill."
PopeInnocentXIV@reddit
So you're gold collar if you drive a train but not a plane?
burstingbirches@reddit
Oh interesting does that differ from white collar?
Sapper501@reddit
I disagree. If you work at a regional or major, you are very solidly a white collar position. You are a high earning, highly specialized worker who is often lumped in with elite professionals such as physicians and top-echelon engineers.
Even at the lower levels of piloting, you still need advanced training/education to perform in your role.
AutomaticEnd2431@reddit
It's not about what you make. I know a guy who made $550,000 last year doing electrical work for multiple businesses, but he's solidly an electrician and solidly blue collar.
Sapper501@reddit
Are we ignoring how if you're flying pax all of their lives largely depend on you and your FO? If we say a surgeon is white collar while one life is on the line, how can we not say the same when hundreds are at the same time?
MapleKerman@reddit
This is like completely irrelevant to how these are defined
AutomaticEnd2431@reddit
Its not about whether or not lives are on the line either. Not like your life has never depended on a welder or an electrician doing their job right
bellanca@reddit
Glorified bus driver with better equipment.
Anthem00@reddit
and doctors and top echelon engineers dont ? uhhh ok.
But seriously - airline pilots might make MORE than physicians or top echelon engineers, but that doesnt mean they are "lumped in" outside of salary buckets. Just because you are high earning and highly speciailized doesnt mean you're in the same categories of white collar or otherwise. That would mean everybody in professional sports making decent money are in the same category - which just isnt the case.
kd_butterballs@reddit
My only argument to this is that (almost) every pilot wears a white collar.
Electronic-Smell-951@reddit
Gray collar cause I haven’t changed my shirt in four days.
Noisycarlos@reddit
Combination between blue and white collar... So clear-sky color? Nice
sirrealizt@reddit
Correct. “Gray collar – Refers to labor which blurs the line between blue- and white-collar work. Gray collar work requires both physical and intellectual labour, and may require specialized training or college degrees. Commonly given examples of gray collar workers are first responders, nurses, conservationists, and pilots”
songgao@reddit
Shouldn't that be sky-blue-color?
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
There is only blue or white collar. The rest of the colors are just made up hoopla.
bindersweat@reddit
blue collar and white collar are made up too, because that's how language works; I would argue it's important to create more "collar colors" if the two that are most common don't cover everyone clearly.
grahamcore@reddit
It’s made up for the purpose of class warfare.
bindersweat@reddit
I understand your point, gives me something to think about. I guess it depends on how you feel about "class warfare" overall. The difference in classes and what they're able to afford, the hedonism of the ruling class etc etc.... but this isn't the sub for that. I'm just saying I find the idea of singling out any bit of language as "made up" is silly. It all is.
Superb-Photograph529@reddit
Because our white collar turns this color after a dicey approach.
Siouxpilot93@reddit
No. Not even a little bit 😂
Competitive-Elk6117@reddit
If I told my father in law who’s a welding lifer that I’m a blue collar worker he might strangle me. Lmfao
SpartanDoubleZero@reddit
YOU GOT SOFT HANDS BOY
Individual_Sir2785@reddit
Ah, your just flying the wrong aero-plane if your hands are soft. Try a C-206 in AK.
NPBoss18@reddit
Oh man. I just heard his rough voice coldly saying that. lol
HeruCtach@reddit
🤣
southern-springs@reddit
If you told a wall street banker than you were white collar, he would laugh in your face.
fighterace00@reddit
Trump's brother
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
Not blue collar, but we are tradesmen.
c0m413x@reddit
My buddy has the same sentiment even though I cut beef, pork, and fish. And run around with my head cut off 8+ hrs a day tryna get stuff done that requires a lot of heavy lifting. Bro thinks I got “soft hands” and that I should work in construction. Even though I make the same amount of money as him. People think their trade/job is also the hardest blue collar job out there. Usually people with egos lol.
bska02_Gears@reddit
With his welding hose!
Individual_Sir2785@reddit
Ermine, because in the air I am the king.
Others, well is your job supervisory or line?
lando-hockey@reddit
I’d say no, given the high amount of things you need to learn. I’d also say that I couldn’t care less what people classify pilots or CFI’s as.
mrstinkypoopypants@reddit
121 airline pilots? Who wear a white collar and have some of the strictest grooming and uniform standards and also extensive background checks and usually a 4 year degree required? No, I would definitely not call that blue collar. Cargo and bush pilots and others are a different story
KBC@reddit
This is the answer. If you’re flying 121 and are literally wearing a white collar, you’re white collar.
atooraya@reddit
What if you instruct at a 141 flight school in Florida and wear white collars with epaulettes and make $20k/yr?
DesertDog185@reddit
Hang in there. Keep your nose clean. It will get better.
KBC@reddit
Emphasis on the 121 part.
Brambleshire@reddit
I don't buy white collar either because white collar actually refers to offices and paperwork, which we are not.
scul86@reddit
My collar is Jetseam gray...
KBC@reddit
Breeze is hardly 121. /s
DesertDog185@reddit
It’s a moot point. Blue Collar traditionally means labor as opposed to management. Some blue collars make minimum wage pulling weeds or cleaning floors. Some are harder to replace which is why, in my last year as a wide body captain I cleared $880 without breaking a sweat. Diving under oil platforms in the North Sea can break a million. We’re just not management….thankfully.
DontStopBelievin_@reddit
Brown collar if you’re flying cargo planes full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
pilots are white collar and it's indeed a trade
Blue collar is more like your factory worker, or plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc.
Aviator-Intelligence@reddit
I’ll take my 12 days of work a month, making $500k a year and let them call it whatever they want!
Feckmumblerap@reddit
Its a trade but it’s definitely not blue collar. Maybe if you’re bush pilot flying hunters in a supercub up in Alaska or something you can kinda make the argument that it’s blue collar but even that is its own thing
shutterm4@reddit
The maintainers are. The pilots are not. Maybe ag pilots and fire pilots, but that’s where I’d draw the line.
dromzugg@reddit
When I was flying floats I would have thought of myself as pretty blue collar. Now flying airlines, not sure I have that same.boue.collar.feeling. maybe it's the stuffy uniform, maybe it's the auto pilot. Airline flying feels a lot more like systems management most of the time and that doesn't feel like a blue collar label.
Vithar@reddit
I always thought of bush/float/cfi/pipeline/survey type pilots as blue color and airlines as white.
Charming-Elk-2154@reddit
Agreed. I say what you do to get to the airlines is blue collar but once you make it you no longer blue collar
Cessnateur@reddit
I think if you can regularly do your job without wearing shoes, you're solidly blue collar. ツ
fountainsofvarnoth@reddit
No.
I’ve heard a lot of guys who never worked a job other than CFI to airlines claim that we are blue collar.
As a dude who worked as a professional mechanic, did landscaping, and worked on the side for a buddy doing handyman/home improvement/roofing type work? Absolutely not. I’m not sure exactly what we are, but we are NOT blue collar workers. Those guys WORK.
Sandman79172@reddit
No, not even close. Still time do delete this post.
SubSoar@reddit (OP)
I haven’t even replied to anyone else because I’m enjoying seeing everyone converse with each other about this topic but this one caught me off guard. Why would I delete it? The discussions have been really friendly and enlightening. Literally the whole point of the subreddit.
Sandman79172@reddit
Because it’s an absurd thing to say. Maybe just focus on the flying buddy.
MapleKerman@reddit
Lol no. What are you smoking?
ShotAbility6832@reddit
I think we work a skilled trade, but we are not blue collar
Scorch062@reddit
I think the road to get to the well paying pilot job could be pretty blue collar. Most start flying some pretty clapped out planes for pretty terrible pay or paying out of pocket, or you’re in the military doing it that way.
Not everyone, but a lot.
AHOUSE145@reddit
Coming from someone who worked blue collar to pay for flightschool, we are not even close to blue collar
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Is a bus driver a blue collar job? Yea, then so are pilots.
A blue-collar job is often Paid by the hour and involves manual labor, skilled trades, or physical work, often outside an office setting. Check, check, check and check.
Why is there even a question about it?
ActiveCartographer75@reddit
This 100%.
The skills required don’t define blue versus white. Nor does the colour of your uniform.
The fact you need a physical… as part of your medical… is a dead giveaway it’s blue.
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
Guess astronauts are blue collar
ActiveCartographer75@reddit
Likely to need a degree… but another measure is anyone who doesn’t need a university degree for their vocation is almost certainly blue collar.
Let’s face it. We pilot flying buses. They’re just a little more complex than the average road bus. We can make it as fanciful as we like… but ultimately it’s still transporting people.
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
Are software engineers without a degree blue collar boys too
ActiveCartographer75@reddit
They’re certainly not true engineers… as they don’t have an engineering degree. Engineering is a protected profession, to practice as one you must meet certain criteria, and membership. Just like lawyers, doctors and accountants.
Are they blue collar too, by definition probably yes, as they’re self taught, technically without qualification, despite actual skills.
Perhaps they’re better describe as a blue collar in a white collar world.
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Test pilots and astronauts are the bluest of blue collars.
HeruCtach@reddit
I think it's more complicated. I grew up watching my aunt drive a schoolbus most of the day for years. Some skills are related, like operating and knowing your machine, or navigation.
However, even other comments here admit that the pilot job most aspire to (airline) largely just involves a few button presses and systems monitoring when it comes to the actual flying. Bus drivers don't have FAs to tend to the bulk of pax concerns or even bring them lunch, they don't have an autopilot, lots still don't even have proper AC, nor are they compensated nearly as much.
The answer only becomes more muddled imo when we consider other pilot professions. Banner towing, CFIs; I'd consider these quite blue collar. But as others have said, for airline flying, I see it as white or gold collar.
latedescent@reddit
r/confidentlyincorrect
It's been answered many times already.
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
Yes, and the answer is Blue.
latedescent@reddit
Like I said confidently incorrect 🙃
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
Judging by the collar of the shirt I wear to work….
hiltsairsky737@reddit
I would say corporate and airlines are white collar. You can even google it and we are used as example. Are job is the knowledge. We get paid for the bad days not the easy most days of watching the autopilot. We also get paid 6 figures while wearing WHITE COLLAR suites.
Perfect_Insurance_26@reddit
Not even close. The only blue collar pilots are freight dogs, and some of those guys aren't blue collar either.
Lightlychopped@reddit
Most of us are white collar, JetBlue is blue collar thought
jpcanty@reddit
My wife and I had this discussion a little while ago. We came to the conclusion that I’m “sky blue collar”. It’s just not quite either.
SSMDive@reddit
First, why get into a "heated debate" over this? It just does not matter. As others have said grey collar.
Terrible_Analysis_77@reddit
White collar until it matters, then blue collar.
GainFormal1633@reddit
We are the poshest blue collar job, but I perhaps I would describe us as ‘Gold Collar’.
“Highly skilled, specialized professions that require advanced education, technical expertise, and a high level of problem-solving ability, often involving a mix of "white-collar" intellectual and "blue-collar" technical skills.”
Chewy-Seneca@reddit
I do rope access composite repair, im blue collar lite, but id say yeah certain pilot jobs are more blue collar than others, like ag spraying, powerline work, small charter flights, firefighting etc because of the weird hours and demands/risks vs say, wide body airlines that seem more like a supervisory role over a big collection of automated systems.
I also think nurses, trauma surgeons etc are also blue collar, their work is hard and demanding as well.
Anixton@reddit
Grey or gold collar.
CommunicationWarm318@reddit
Maybe I wouldn’t consider us to be “blue collar” but I do consider the job a trade.
BuddyHolly__@reddit
Pilots are not blue collar
UGDirtFarmer@reddit
Belong to unions, operate machinery, advancement based on seniority. All those things seem pretty typical for blue collar trades.
micahhurley@reddit
It is a trade but it is 100% white collar, don't be ridiculous haha.
ImpossibleLadder3059@reddit
On paper, we are considered a white collar job at the airline level. We were a uniform that is very business like. We wears ties at the airlines. We are a highly specialized field of work. Now.... Having said all that, pilots have a lot of blue collar traits. We are union members, for the most part. We work hard to get to where we are. The average person does not know the fight we had to go through to get to that right or left seat. They do not know the amount of work and dedication it takes to go through a type rating course. They just see the end product of us flying them around. We go through a trade school or a sort that is highly specialized in the early phases of flight training. We have to pay our dues to get to an airline.
IncognitoD@reddit
Bushpilots, denim collar...
Oceanside92@reddit
Golden collar is the official definition
undercoveraviator@reddit
Most definitely. And there isn’t a single thing wrong with that.
HoverStop@reddit
Not really. We have a lot of professional continuation learning to do, as well as renewing our licence 2 or 3 times per year.
EmbarrassedTruth1337@reddit
I'd definitely say it depends on the job. Airline pilot vs medevac pilot vs bush pilot is very different. Our pilots fly the plane, unload the cargo, load up the backhaul, and fly it back. I'd call that blue.
SlowPreme@reddit
My collar blue but my neck is red
SirERJ-Driver@reddit
Not blue, we don’t really get our hands dirty. You don’t come home drenched in dirt, sweat, oil or grime.
Not white, we don’t sit in a safe office at a desk with A/C and florescent lights.
I’d say we’re grey collar. We don’t get too dirty, but we’re still operating heavy machinery that punishes you with death if you screw up. We’re “inside”, yet still exposed to some elements (skin cancer from UV rays, thin atmosphere, etc). It’s somewhere in the middle. Not fully white, not fully blue.
Professional GA piston pilots (Bush pilots, firefighters, CFIs, etc) are closer to (but not fully) blue and professional turbine pilots (corporate, cargo, and airline pilots) are closer to (but not fully) white.
skywagonman@reddit
You must be flying the brand new ERJs. My uniforms are fucked every week with those damn seatbelts.
SirERJ-Driver@reddit
Hahaha! Funny enough, after a solid 4-5 day trip my white shirt collar starts turning grey from the damn things.
drinkbeergetmoney@reddit
Literally wearing a white uniform shirt.
nem636@reddit
Because the job is pretty much that of a chauffeur or bus driver.
Themuffintastic@reddit
You literally wear a white collar
z0mbeh8r@reddit
IMHO blue collar vs white collar is a red herring debate. One that any management team would love to stoke if it means playing work groups against each other. The real distinction is management vs labor. We are 100% labor.
Cookiehurricane@reddit
Yes! This debate distracts from the fact that we're all part of the working class.
imlooking4agirl@reddit
Yeah no, as someone that is actually blue collar trying to pay for flight school, it is not the same. You can trade skill for work without it being blue collar.
Not to mention if you’re talking about 121 pilots, you’re likely wearing an ACTUAL white collar lmao
thegamerdoggo@reddit
Pilots are white collar at least, with a little blue, but I’m gonna call it blue collar because I like to be annoying sometimes
Curious-Owl6098@reddit
I work a blue collar job while I’m working on my CPL now. pilots are not even remotely close to blue collar. They got SOFT HANDS BROTHER
reshan@reddit
I'm gross sweat stained collar.
TheSkyFlier@reddit
Easiest way to tell the difference is if you wash your hands before or after you go to the bathroom.
LaddieNowAddie@reddit
I do anesthesia and I wash my hands before and after thank you very much.
mooseup@reddit
Do you shower when you wake up or before you go to bed?
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
😂😭
External_Insect_548@reddit
is this a joke lmao
jazzflutejustice@reddit
Driving someone else’s expensive machine on someone’s else’s schedule for an hourly rate with overtime and a union…. 🤷🏼
Spock_Nipples@reddit
Yes. On a basic level, we just operate machinery. All the 'glam' whatever is basically just a cultural thing.
FRICKENOSSOM@reddit
Strictly speaking, we are. We’re paid by the hour mostly. Do shift work.
hotdaughg@reddit
Banner tow and skydive flying absolutely, my jet job? Technically
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
Most professional pilots are not blue collar. While we do have some aspects in common with our blue collar brothers, such as operating machinery, being unionized, and earning an hourly pay; our career requires much more extensive training, licensing, responsibility, and knowledge. This puts us in line more with white collar or gold collar definitions.
jettech737@reddit
Some blue collared also hold an insane amount of responsibility like A&P's or people who calibrate and repair precision surgical equipment. Ditto for training and knowledge like sheetmetal craft and welding, those are two careers that require a ton of training and experience based skill.
That being said airline pilots generally dont work in dirty or uncomfortable conditions (walk around in the rain or cold hardly counts), they dont build, maintain, or repair anything as a part of their job, and their uniforms are basically the same as an office workers except for the hat and epaulettes.
All in all industries dont consider pilots fully blue or white collared, its sort of blended.
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
Airline pilots are generally considered to be gold collar. That’s not to say that no other airline industry jobs require high responsibility and technical knowledge, such as yours.
jettech737@reddit
Yes I haven't heard of gold collared until I opened this thread, some A&P's fall into that definition as well especially with the higher paying carriers like FedEx and UPS. A FedEx mx lead makes about 185K per yesr straight time, with some overtime they easily cross well above 200K.
Ari179@reddit
Not to be that guy because I’m just happy to not be paycheck to paycheck like when I was a CFI, but a 2 year FO at my legacy is around 300. Captains are 600 with light overtime. Not exactly the same pay range you’re describing. That said not sure where the crossover is exactly in pay and collar colors. I always linked it more to type of work done, CAs do a lot of paperwork and managing while other positions involve more manual labor, like FOs walk around or non airline guys doing loading/catering.
jettech737@reddit
Yea pilots will make more but 180K-250K is nothing to sneeze at either. You are still upper middle class outside of SFO and NYC.
Ari179@reddit
For sure that’s why I’m saying if it’s just cash then a lot of people would be white collar. So I think it’s more related to what kind of work is being performed.
goodatgettingbanned@reddit
Gold collar - Highly skilled professionals who are in high demand and highly paid workers in specialized career fields.
mkosmo@reddit
Except the high demand part, right now, as the hiring conditions indicate.
goodatgettingbanned@reddit
I dunno, if the amount of missed inverse assignment calls I woke up to are any indication, my seat is still in demand. At least for the moment.
Thick_Locksmith5944@reddit
Also never seen as massive egos on anyone else than pilots so that definitely matches too.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
You new to the adult world? Doctors, Lawyers, Tech Bros, "Influencers", anybody who claims to own their own business, etc.
Thick_Locksmith5944@reddit
Yes i am dad
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
We know, my question was rhetorical.
goodatgettingbanned@reddit
You don’t get out much.
Thick_Locksmith5944@reddit
That's true. I don't!
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
There are pilots who are salaried too so hourly pay is not really relevant.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
Lot of those could be said about Doctors and Nurses too. Those aren't the definitions of Blue Collar.
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
Doctors are also considered gold collar. Nurses are not.
SpiritFlight404@reddit
This guy gets it. Gold collar.
Bunslow@reddit
There are plenty of pilots who hold blue collar views, and plenty of pilots who hold white collar views. As far as blue collar jobs, a part 121 legacy job is about as cushy as any blue collar job could ever be, but on the other hand, being part of a union basically disqualifies it from being white collar either.
So both/gray-collar
blackbeardaegis@reddit
White collar for less than blue color pay my boy.
devon2576@reddit
As a blue collar worker myself (substation maintenance and construction electrician) that’s currently in flight training on the side, I’d say no. Flying is not necessarily a sweat of the brow back breaking type labor that actually uses more of your musculoskeletal abilities than brains. It’s quite the opposite. However, being a member of a large union (IBEW) I can say the pilot atmosphere probably shares the same views as a brotherhood/sisterhood and a sense of community like many blue collar trades share.
PoliSci_Texas_Aggie@reddit
I’ve worked blue collar jobs. A pilot is most certainly a white collar job. In both the actual work being performed, working conditions, and if you wanna get sociological about it, the disposition of most personalities in professional flying are very white collar types.
Ari179@reddit
Bold of you to assume personalities in a closed flight deck. Bahahahaha.
chaoticcole_wgb@reddit
If you sweat due to physical labor, not due to lack of ac or lack of fitness, you may be blue collar
jedimarchenligne@reddit
Right now i'm hustling on the ramp 12h a day 6 days a week in canadain the hope of getting a position cause I only have 250. I hustled 3 years in france on the ramp working 200h a month without holidays so I could pay for my whole training here. So yeah so far, I'm one, in the hope of not being one anymore.
gromm93@reddit
What you're actually asking, is "are we workers or management".
Or maybe "working class or upper class".
Are we getting paid for our time, or are we eating passive income from our assets?
Everyone earning a wage, even high earning types like doctors and lawyers, are being paid for our time and labour. Even if that labour is emotional or mental, we're not sitting on our asses and making money by charging rent or investing in companies and getting their profits.
That's the true dividing line. "Are you making money in your sleep?"
Heavy_Notice3544@reddit
Hell naw. I grew up doing blue collar farm chores, freezer warehouse jobs, electrical on new build sites, and landscaping. This is the easiest job I’ve done my whole life… and I’m still solo flying clapped multi engines with no autopilot.
Maleficent-Bug-2045@reddit
I kinda get the vibe, but to me pilots are more like surgeons. It’s a very hands-on and physical job, but there is no margin for error in a place where lots and lots of things could be fatal from lack of proficiency or in attention.
That having been said, the doctors in my family look down on surgeons because “they aren’t real doctors”.
Chago04@reddit
Pilots are the definition of grey collar.
Total_Midwit_Death@reddit
No, not even close. Just hourly wagies.
Character-Shoe-7803@reddit
It's not white collar, so I'd say blue. It's a trade, but not a hard one. Other trades might not like it... but all we literally do is operate heavy machinery. Albeit the air conditioned, mach .82 cruising, "flight attendants are asking what meal you'd like", $400+ an hour at the top end kinda machinery
44Runner@reddit
I am a pilot but I also worked a blue collar job for 17 years. Pilot is not even close to blue collar.
acousticwalruss@reddit
As a career A&P and pilot as a hobby… no.
Embarrassed-Gift-938@reddit
Only blue collar aviation job is aerial application 🤣🤣 sorry buddy crop dusters have that
FlyingYankee118@reddit
CFIs, AG and GA jobs are paid pretty averagely. Airlines and corporate, heck no
pjlaniboys@reddit
We are at the too of the blue collar group. We wear a uniform and hourly contract. And sweet it is.
Staffalopicus@reddit
If you’re unionized you’re blue collar
VileInventor@reddit
dog collar for sure
SlinkyNormal@reddit
As a plumber/pipe fitter that saved up years to afford my CPL -- not at all.
downwindsavage@reddit
Airline flying no. Up in the north type flying, yes. You work “blue collar” flying jobs so you can earn your stripe so you can wear a “white collar”
Stocksonnablock@reddit
100% a white collar job.
notagreatpilot@reddit
I fly for QS, so not a major airline, but not a bottom feeder job.
I had a captain last month who kept calling himself and I “the help”, and it really pissed me off. Like we had an overnight in Nassau, and when asked if he would go back responded with “nah man I’m just the help I can’t do that.”
I get it, I have to load bags and pour Diet Coke for mega millionaires. We’re more “help” than actual airline pilots, but there’s a very large scale for wealth and incomes in the US, and pilots are damn near the top of that scale.
My wife and I would be in the 1% our entire life’s, even if I didn’t jump to a legacy.
White collar as fuck.
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
When I was flying a business jet with a flight attendant I was sitting at cruise eating shrimp and crab leftover from the catering while doing a 5 hour flight on auto pilot. Sounds pretty white collar to me.
MEINSHNAKE@reddit
If you wear a white collar, your probably a white collar worker, if you wear a tshirt and dirty jeans to work, your probably closer to blue collar.
rick_rolled_you@reddit
I’ve heard someone say “blue collar job, white collar wages” lol I think it’s definitely a trade. I guess you could consider it blue collar, but it feels slightly disingenuous, although not necessarily incorrect
notagreatpilot@reddit
The whole “collar” thing isn’t as much about money than it is where you work and what physical capacity your work involves. I mean, bankers are white collar, but so are customer support and HR folks.
always_gone@reddit
I’ve always said that. When I was an engineer I crawled around in dirt and oil a lot, suited me much better than being a desk jockey. Blue collar work with white collar pay has always been my preference.
rick_rolled_you@reddit
We’re definitely some of the most pampered and coddled (and oftentimes entitled, unfortunately) blue collar workers around
tomsawyerisme@reddit
nah but without apu its hot tho
redsar19@reddit
Hahaha SIDA Badge Holder, I like that one
tomsawyerisme@reddit
=)
always_gone@reddit
Speak for yourself you 121 softy 😂 sincerely a 135 freight dawg trying not to die during yet another winter of mountain flying.
AnUnnervingGoat@reddit
The only blue collar airline pilots I know all work for JBL
latedescent@reddit
When I flew checks 9 legs a night in clapped out freighters by myself - blue collar
When I flew the richies at the fractionals and corporate - white collar
Flying boxes 121 in a uniform at night - Slightly off white collar
Na but seriously overall I'd say white collar with caveats
notagreatpilot@reddit
You get paid way more flying boxes than you did fracti….. ohhhhh you never changed your shirt.
atooraya@reddit
Depends on what corporate. If you're planning your own flight plans and throwing bags in the cargo hold for $100 tips, you're def blue collar.
latedescent@reddit
I threw bags, stocked, and filed. I also got box seats to superbowls, world series, and had unlimited hotel/rental car/meal budgets. I guess it's "grey" collar.
GSEBVet@reddit
Depends on the aircraft and pay grade. 😂. Jokes aside, it’s obviously a combination of both.
Greenbench27@reddit
Some pilots are; most aren’t
Upper-Astronomer-187@reddit
Only Jet Blue and Alaska are blue collar.
Positive-Hat2127@reddit
Go to your nearest maintenance station and tell them you're blue collar. See what they think😅
Upper-Astronomer-187@reddit
You got in a heated debate about this?
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
Holy shit are you kidding me? I went to a Christmas party a couple of years ago put on by a cardiac surgeon friend. Several of the surgeons I talked to wanted to know if I had a boat or an airplane!
Airline pilots are some of the highest paid salary workers in the world. At my new hire class one of the guys met a wealthy individual who found out he was a new hire a a major. He invited the whole new hire class to his massive ranch for a private airshow and BBQ. It was awesome, this guy and his friends loved having a bunch of pilots at his party.
I’ve been invited to hang out with interesting people around the world, a reason NOT to be a slam clicker”, there is a lot of respect for our profession, I love the trades, but a 777 Captain is managing a large crew, dealing with multiple agencies and stakeholders, and is in charge of a 400 million dollar asset. It’s not blue collar.
BuzzTheTower12@reddit
Pilots are hourly, unionized employees, tasked with operating heavy machinery. It’s a blue collar job, but with pay typical of white collar jobs, like that of doctors, or corporate lawyers.
JPAV8R@reddit
With a few exceptions most of us are wearing white collars.
Our job is management. We manage the automation, coordinate with other departments towards an end goal. Does that sound like the job of an elevator mechanic or pipe fitter?
Yeah we have a skill but we rely on that skill far less than we rely on our ability to manage.
CommuterType@reddit
Do you wear a name tag?
atooraya@reddit
Don't Delta pilots wear name tags? I've definitely seen Skywest pilots wear them.
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
Name tag nothing jobs are walk on with OJT for a couple hours then off to the line.
You ain't doing that in flying. Not even FAs are that unskilled, no matter what the perception is.
mkosmo@reddit
Blue collar doesn't imply unskilled by any stretch. Many blue collar jobs are skilled. Some highly-skilled.
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
I wasn't saying that at all. I consider a name tag job a minimum wage/minimum skill job a name tag job. I'm fully aware of what a blue collar job entails, even if you do wear a name tag. Hell, our check airmen wear name tags and that's the furthest thing from unskilled labor.
rkba260@reddit
No... do you?
slim5pickins@reddit
Much like nurses, we’re either the bluest white-collar or the whitest blue-collar.
aviator147@reddit
Only JetBlue pilots /s
Guy_PCS@reddit
I was informed that I am a fast feeder.
slugworth1@reddit
Bougie collar
antreas3@reddit
Do you wash your hands before you go to the toilet?? If No, don't even think about this question. You are not blue collar.
iMightBeAP51Mustang@reddit
Blue collar work with level depending, white collar pay.
captainsaveaho121@reddit
Flying is not blue collar 😭😂
betterme2610@reddit
No. Absolutely no, and that’s ok.
Once you’ve crawled in sewers pulling cable or rode railroad cars in the freezing ass cold you know blue collar. I’d give a few exceptions to some of the pipe flyers, Alaska outfits, and some of the smaller bush type outfits around the world.
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
Not even close!
RoutineTraditional79@reddit
Im a little biased as a Canadian (we have a lot of bush pilots) (and a rotary guy) but I’d say anything you could do in the NWT is blue collar, anything in Vancouver is white.
So Ag, tree trimming, flying around geologists, flying food in a DHC-6: blue collar
But police, news, airlines, flying CEOs to their yachts/Whistler: white collar.
Exception is EMS, because I’d consider a ground ambulance driver blue collar as well.
Honestly, now that I think about it: if you have a ground equivalent, just look at that.
AWACS_Bandog@reddit
Depends on the flying.
Airliners, absolutely not, you're all white-collar, even the shitty ones
Certain cargo ops, bush flying, and even jumpers? Yeah blue collar is a fitting title
Significant_Cheese9@reddit
No
Accurate_Mulberry_61@reddit
From someone who’s currently wearing a hard hat and shitting in a port-a-john at a high rise build.… I would say no.
Adrift_on_the_Tide@reddit
Traditionally (Britain) blue-collar workers were manual workers and tradesmen. The collars were blue because they didn't show dirt as much and were cheaper (remember, collars used to detatch from shirts). Then there were service-workers and shop-workers. White-collar workers were professionals, management and businessmen. I would say airline pilots, bizjet pilots etc certainly come into this category. One could make an argument for ag-flyers to be blue-collar. It all boils down to how quickly your collar will get dirty, and how often you will need (and can afford!) to replace it!
Not to be confused with class.... 😉
burningtowns@reddit
The mechanics that fix the planes are blue collar.
pooserboy@reddit
My collars blue but my neck is red(it’s skin cancer from being in the flight levels)
ainsley-@reddit
Bean working like a dog just to keep my family’s fed. Living on airport beers and hotel snacks.
Working_Football1586@reddit
The guys thats flying a dead moose around alaska in dirty coveralls is definitely blue collar. If your flying for the airlines and doing everything you can to avoid actually working then complaining about it when you do is definitely not blue collar.
ainsley-@reddit
I think freighter dogs are pretty blue collar. I mean whats more blue collar than flying a jumbo out of HongKong at 3am, thats owned by a guy called Doug who likes drag racing in his spare time.
Ashamed-Charge5309@reddit
As a YTP (Youtube Pilot) Can assure you that we are NOT Blue Collar. We fight for the common working pilot to be first in line at the starborx, the shuttle to the crew hotel (All Stewardesses need to take their own shuttle kthx) and at the company provided omelette bar first thing in the ~~morning~~ ~~afternoon~~ evening after waking up from a bottomless tab at the bar downstairs.
SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON TO GET UR OWN WINGZ AND TIPZ TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE WORLD OF FLIGHT!
pilotboi696@reddit
Fuck no dude
HoldinTheBag@reddit
No.
As someone who has worked real blue collar jobs (farming, mechanic, line service) I can say with certainty that an airline pilot is most definitely not blue collar.
bterrik@reddit
Closer to white than blue, but we're unionized and hourly with specialized, trade focused education (though college is helpful/borderline required at certain places).
We're one of the professions where the blue/white debate doesn't really fit. It also doesn't really matter - labor or management. We're labor.
lakeshowyoo@reddit
If you have to ask, no
redcurrantevents@reddit
In general, blue collar is shower after shower work, white is shower before. We are white collar.
latedescent@reddit
What if I do both?
redcurrantevents@reddit
That you sweat a lot?
I said in general, I’m sure there are exceptions. Also there is the whole fact that many of us, myself included wear a literal white collar and tie to work.
latedescent@reddit
Was just kidding around was all
3greenandnored@reddit
Pilots and Flight Attendants are definitely HIGHLY TRAINED Blue Collar workers. Where we differ with most other Blue Collar fields is the level of responsibility we carry with us.
Being_a_Mitch@reddit
Some Ag pilots or bush pilots? Maybe. The rest of us? Fuck no lol.
sdgmusic96@reddit
Not unless you work for jetBlue
Final_Ad_5044@reddit
Many flying jobs literally require you to wear a white (or grey, you FJ folks) collared shirt, I think if you were to generalize the industry, that's your answer. Sure, there are like Ag flying and a small number of other ones where you could say blue collar, and you might be correct.
Short answer, your buddy was probably right and it's not worth any amount of debate.
Adabar@reddit
Using traditional definitions: airline pilots are some of the most white collar looking blue collar jobs out there
Using modern definitions: it’s gold collar.
I know there is underlying pretentiousness in pilots to think they’re smarts than they are, but when comparing this job to the safety standards, pay, career risk, and respect that other gold collar jobs have, we fit almost every definition.
If someone off the street asked me the question, I’d say “what are the choices?” Again, using traditional definitions, it is technically blue collar, though no other blue collar workers would accept us into their ranks.
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
Blue/white collar is just some arbitrary categorization of types of employment. It’s just a made up idea, which, as far as I know, doesn’t really impose any kind of advantage or disadvantage. Do you get anything extra just for meeting the made-up definition of one category or the other? I don’t believe so. Well guess what? I’m black collar because I like black shirts. You can be too, if you like black shirts. But even if you don’t like black shirts, you can still call yourself black collar because it’s all entirely made-up and doesn’t matter.
What this whole blue/white collar argument is actually about is some weird ego driven competition about who suffers more and thus should get some kind of extra praise or cookies or something for that suffering. “You pilots can’t call yourself blue collar because you’re paid all this money and flight attendants serve you coffee, while me and the boys have to be in shop at 5am and we get dirty and our joints hurt and a bunch of men who are our bosses can’t regulate their emotions for shit and so they yell at us when they get mad. You’re just a wimpy soft-handed white collar worker; you’re not tough enough to be blue collar, fly-boy.” You see this same thing happening all over places like Facebook where people like to show off their own virtues by shitting on others. “That guy got addicted to drugs because he is weak, unlike me, because I was able to avoid the temptation, look at how strong I am!” It’s just a giant dick measuring contest that throws out all subtleties and is low-grade meaningless conversation.
And yes, I know this is a Wendy’s.
150_Driver@reddit
When I flew in Alaska I fueled my own plane at times, loaded the bags and cargo, washed the plane, reconfigured the cabin, etc in the rain or shine so I’d consider that blue color. My current medevac job is somewhere in between the two since I still wash the plane, load patients, and fly it.
Ok_Principle_7280@reddit
Pilots? No. You’re close, but not quite.
FBO workers, airport ops workers, and airline ground ops workers? Absolutely push over that line into blue collar.
lisper@reddit
My wife had a hip replacement a while back. The surgeon who did it does nothing but hip replacements, day in, day out. He's very, very good at it. But that's all he does. It's not that different from being a mechanic for exotic cars. Would you consider that to be blue collar or a trade?
adii100@reddit
Definitely, machine operator is blue
legimpster@reddit
Pilots who say that airline pilots are blue collar have never worked a blue collar job. We are definitely white collar.
Oatmo6@reddit
Depends on the cockpit. Ag, bush, and freight feels blue collar; corporate and airline lean white collar.
cowboyunderwater@reddit
You could maybe argue that bush/ag pilots are blue collar, but that’s about it.
branda22@reddit
It's a trade job for sure. I feel like its pretty blue collar.
grahamcore@reddit
Yes we are blue collar. We are skilled labor who work on labor union contracts. Any other considerations are not really relavent to the discussion.
jedensuscg@reddit
It's kind of a weird thing to categorize. Some pilots in non 121 jobs could be considered blue collar, and hell some regional pilots are probably making blue collar wages.
However, to GET that "blue collar pilot" job requires some definite white collar investment. The cost to get into the pilot business as a career alone I think could technically put the job squarely into white collar territory. If you take a overage $200 per flight hour (probably more in many places), including CFI costs as needed, it's minimum $50,000 just to get the hours needed for a commercial license to do the most basic jobs that, investment aside, could be considered blue collar.
You can do a trade school for welding or something simil for less than that, and if you are dedicated enough not even do a specialized training. I have heard of people working as welders just by practicing, watching YouTube, and a few more years of practicing and then just getting certified.
No amount of dedication will get you a pilot job without dropping 50k plus in cash.
dynamic_fluid@reddit
Blue collar / white collar is a distraction and meant to divide us and we would be better off not using this classification imo.
Regardless of how much you make; if you work in retail, trades, customer service jobs, pilots, ground crew, etc. we’re all a lot more alike than the CEOs and high net worth individuals those of us in the 91/135 world fly around.
zombiedog54@reddit
We do a repetitive task, to an exacting standard. The very definition of skilled labor. Call it what you will, my banker calls me sir.
KarmaTheBrit@reddit
If you think being an ATP is blue collar you are wayyy out of touch with reality. I sit in AC, push a few buttons and have 18 days off a month. Whilst making what or more than surgeons make. If you ain’t bug spraying, banner towing or meat missile dropping. You ain’t blue collar at all. If you think flying airlines is blue collar, you have soft hands brother.
figuredout@reddit
I think it depends on what kind of pilot you are. My friends who fly 207’s and Caravans out of Bethel in Alaska, who spend their days on dirt strips loading and unloading thousands of pounds of bypass mail, one triple-mailer at a time… those are blue collar pilots. Airline pilots, even if you’re at the bottom of the ladder, are white collar workers. The majority of their work day is spent in objectively clean, climate controlled, indoor environments. They aren’t doing anything physically strenuous, or if they are, it’s not the primary function of their job. All I know is, if I heard a pilot in full uniform call themselves “blue collar;” I’m laughing in their face.
jackintheboxtacoguy@reddit
We quite literally wear a white collar stop cosplaying and get a hobby
ElectionMean7703@reddit
insert sponge bob in overalls
DefinitelyNotDebo@reddit
Gold collar
psljx@reddit
Blue collar for the first 2000hrs
Facelessroids@reddit
What’s the difference between god and a pilot? God doesn’t think he’s a pilot
External-Victory6473@reddit
Flying is definitely a trade. Blue collar often refers to manual labor, which flying often is. Is bus driver blue collar? Pilot can be seen in a similar light to bus driver. I dont think pilot would compare education or skill wise with doctor, lawyer or engineer. The pay may be there on the good end but flying is easy. It doesnt require any real brain power or skills that the average person could not do. It does not require advanved education. Pretty much anyone can be a pilot. Thats why we have too many pilots and only enough jobs for about 10% of them. Flying is made artificially difficult especially in the U.S. by the cost of traing, requiring a degree in anything and nearly unattainable hours requirements, none of this indicates that flying itself takes any special skill or ability, these requirements were /are imposed to cut down in the numbers of pilots going for the good jobs while requiring the pilots who havent got there yet to whore themselves to the industry. What happened a few years ago when pilots were needed? They dropoed to lofty requirements and hired almost anyone. Now that pilots are not in such need employers at the good end are installing the hurdles again. Doctors, lawyers and engineers pay their dues as well and the education isnt cheap. But nobody will become one just for having a pulse or to do it as a hobby on weekends. Their hurdles are not artificially imposed as in flying. So, yes flying is a trade. Bluecollarish yes.
No-Try3904@reddit
I’d say white collar pay, blue collar mindset.
djscreeling@reddit
Lolol....no You're not blue collar. I've been blue collar most of my life, and only white recently.
There is nobody I know that is a pilot that I would call blue collar. For starters, people in the trades can't afford planes much less a license. And before you come in with your, "but my cousins sisters friend did plumbing once" just know for every 1 blue collar pilot you find I'll find you 1000 white collar pilots.
A&P or Ag pilots or bush etc....is different. But, I still stand by my crazy ratio above.
Euryheli@reddit
If you would call a city bus driver blue collar then pilots are as well.
TravelerMSY@reddit
A lot of people consider this a vibe thing nowadays rather than a strict definition. But, by the old rules it’s blue collar because you wear a uniform, usually belong to a union, and don’t need a college degree.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
I’m a union member and trade my time for money. Are longshoremen and heavy crane operators blue collar? As I understand it they make well into 6 figures, just like us.
3inches43pumpsis9@reddit
Lol no.
Capitulation_Trader@reddit
It’s not the right question. What are you trying to define? All major 121 USA pilots are unionized. W bargain collectively. We have federal regulations we follow for safety every moment of every day. We have seniority lists. We get paid by the minute. white/blue/ color is a useless bucket to throw employees into. Pilots get paid anywhere from a few dollars an hour to a few hundred dollars an hour. We live in one of the most wealthy capitalist society ever. Can you make a bunch of money eventually as an airline captain after 30 years of flying? Typically, yes. Is our labor risky and dangerous? Typically, yes. However we are professionals trained to some of the highest levels of procedure and safety. I’m running out of blither. What was the question?
t-1@reddit
If you work for JetBlue then you're blue collar. Otherwise, gray collar.
Birdmanljs@reddit
Workin for the man =blue collar
majesticjg@reddit
I think it depends what part of aviation you're in. Own a charter company with a dozen jets? White collar. Line pilot at a skydiving op or flight school? Blue collar. Airline pilot? Blue collar, maybe, on the grounds that it's a union job with a specific advancement ceiling and all the pros and cons that come with that.
Content-Mix2547@reddit
Instructing 1000% felt blue collar
AD_VICTORIAM_MOFO@reddit
As others said, it's somewhere between. Grey collar is correct, not gold.
Although pilots are the most likely to wear literal white collars and ties, it is not a university degree but is more than a trade. Being a pilot is an on the job apprenticeship with lots of theory based tests to advance to the next level.
Professional_Read413@reddit
A pilot at a major airline? He'll nah that ain't blue collar
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
Working for Skywest is blue collar 😭
TPWPNY16@reddit
Dude- you’re all F’in PILOTS. Considering the training and experience required, and the life or death responsibility, I’d rank it not a hair below doctors and way above lawyers. White collar in the least.
mkosmo@reddit
Please tell me your flight doc knows about your mental condition.
Phocio@reddit
It depends on the job, airlines generally require a degree along with ATP and 1500 hours which is probably the equivalent of a masters degree or doctorate in a professional field. Commercial pilots like air med, air tours, ag pilots would be more the equivalent of a trade school or associates degree which would be more blue collar.
Seatown1983@reddit
I like calling myself blue collar to get a reaction sometimes haha. But in the presence of like welders , electricians, or aircraft I wouldn’t dare call myself blue collar.
Obviously, we do operate machinery for a living, but our responsibility and thus compensation is on a whole different level. A guy operating an excavator makes a mistake he’s not killing 180 people.
Necessary_Topic_1656@reddit
Do pilots have crews that fly them around on their private jets?
Imaginary_Refuse_239@reddit
Just picturing some gunslinging bush pilot wearing a bomber jacket, jeans and cowboy boots landing on gravel sandbars in northern Canada or Alaska being called white collar 😵
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
Who cares lol
Busy_Professional974@reddit
If CDLs are blue collar than so are pilots IMO
CombinationFun713@reddit
Purple!
Atlanta_Mane@reddit
Not only that, but also too and I have to realize we aren't. If you're not the rider, you're the horse.
PLIKITYPLAK@reddit
No
Commercial-Salt55@reddit
Hard to say. I was a locksmith and business owner for 20 years before becoming a pilot. The education for becoming a pilot was more expensive because locksmith was on the job training, but both have aspects of a blue collar career. As a business owner and tradesman I did make more money than as a pilot, even here at a legacy, but the amount of work by comparison in the day to day job is vastly different. I would say pilots aren’t blue collar in that sense because our day to day work load, although extremely important, it’s not as physically taxing as other tradesmen. Because of that I would have to agree with the gold collar or even white collar.
Barbell_Baker@reddit
Absolutley not, as somebody who's getting out of the trades to pursue aviation I can definitively say flying is not a trade. There is not a single vocational school on the planet that will get you a commercial flying license, and that's because flying is not blue collar.
DeltaTule@reddit
Management is white collar and labor is blue collar, by definition. That is business 101. It’s the same with the beliefs of the members of all the old money upper class country clubs.
If you are not in management or the owner of the business then you are blue collar.
It’s a useless definition though because then you end up with highly skilled professions like doctors who would be by definition blue collar unless they own their own practice.
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
Being a lowly flight instructor on a rural airport teaching students to do circuits on fifty-year old Cessnas? I reckon it’s as blue as it gets.
flyguy42@reddit
Definitely not blue collar. That's for manual workers.
nashtaters@reddit
Not a fucking chance
PhilRubdiez@reddit
Depends on the job. When I was a CFI, it was probably white collar. The most physical work I’d have to do was run the school’s snow blower or pull planes out of the hangar. (Though I did pitch in helping Mx when I was bored between students). When I was a freight dog, I was loading heavy ass boxes into the Van or SAAB, so I was closer to blue collar.
Vegetable-Gur-3342@reddit
What color is the collar on your uniform? That’s your answer
reidmrdotcom@reddit
I deem you both wrong and you can acknowledge each others losses by buying each other a drink.
There is a Wikipedia article about different collars for work. We’d be gray collars based on that, highly specialized training but operate heavy machinery in the field. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designation_of_workers_by_collar_color
Mike__O@reddit
Pilots are generally considered "gray collar" workers
datcrazybro@reddit
Eh I’d say grey collar. If you ever have work outside all day when it’s 10 degrees out, you’ll understand why I say it’s not blue collar. It’s also not white collar because being responsible for 100+ people is a lot more a a responsibility than getting out reports or whatever office job people do.
SpiritFlight404@reddit
The official term for Pilot’s career path is Gold collar.
Gold Collar jobs refer to high-skilled, high-paying positions that combine advanced technical expertise with leadership and innovation, often found in fields like technology, engineering, and healthcare. These roles require specialized skills and are typically associated with significant responsibilities and lucrative compensation.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I got into a fairly heated debate with a buddy over this, so I’m curious what you all have to say.
Would you consider pilots to be blue collar? Would you consider flying to be a trade? I probably would. I can agree that different pilot jobs might be more blue collar than others, i.e airlines/corporate vs. ag pilots. What about CFIs? Just curious what you guys think.
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