Silicon Valley is migrating from expensive closed-source models to cheaper open-source alternatives

[-]

retornam@reddit

Always be careful believing whatever Chamath says publicly as he is always talking his book trying to sway markets one way or another to benefit his bottom line.

[-]

FiguringItOut1123@reddit

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Chamath is an early investor in groq. Safe to assume he is always pumping his bags

[-]

Also four randoms in a podcast != Silicon Valley. OpenAi/Azure still have >85% market share in b2b (and also b2c), the rest anthropic/aws and google are splitting up and open weight models don’t even register as rounding error.

[-]

SteakandChickenMan@reddit

I hate these douchebags

[-]

Aggressive-Land-8884@reddit

They have no shame therefore we need to be relentless in our criticism. Fuck Chammath

[-]

dreamingwell@reddit

Chamath is an original investor in Groq.

[-]

thx1138inator@reddit

Could some kind soul paste just the text? I can't fucking stand videos.

[-]

InternationalAsk1490@reddit

"We redirected a ton of our workloads to Kimi K2 on Groq because it was really way more performant and frankly just a ton cheaper than OpenAI and Anthropic. The problem is that when we use our coding tools, they route through Anthropic, which is fine because Anthropic is excellent, but it's really expensive. The difficulty that you have is that when you have all this leapfrogging, it's not easy to all of a sudden just like, you know, decide to pass all of these prompts to different LLMs because they need to be fine-tuned and engineered to kind of work in one system. And so like the things that we do to perfect codegen or to perfect back propagation on Kimi or on Anthropic, you can't just hot swap it to DeepSpeed. All of a sudden it comes out and it's that much cheaper. It takes some weeks, it takes some months. So it's a it's a complicated dance and we're always struggling as a consumer, what do we do? Do we just make the change and go through the pain? Do we wait on the assumption that these other models will catch up? So, yeah. It's a It's a making It's a very Okay, and just for people who don't know, Kimi is made by Moonshot.ai. That's another Chinese startup in the space.":)

[-]

super-amma@reddit

How did you extract that text?

[-]

InternationalAsk1490@reddit

I used Gemini too, just download the video and ask it to "extract the subtitles from the video" Done

[-]

CheatCodesOfLife@reddit

It was actually nice of you to do that for him.

[-]

InternationalAsk1490@reddit

thx!

[-]

JudgeInteresting8615@reddit

Samsung does it

[-]

jakderrida@reddit

You can frequently get Gemini to summarize, transcribe, and frequently even diarize youtube videos with just the link and a brief prompt. Worth noting that anything over 45-50 minutes and the transcribing/diarizing part gets pretty weird pretty fast after that point.

[-]

Doucheswithfarts@reddit

I don’t know what they did but personally I have Gemini summarize most videos by copy-pasting the URL of the video into it. A lot of videos are fluff because the creators want to get ad revenue, and I’m tired of watching them all on 2x speed only to have to sort though all of the BS.

[-]

Solid_Owl@reddit

A statement with about as much intellectual depth as that bookshelf behind him.

[-]

GreatBigJerk@reddit

Does he film his podcast at Ikea? It looks like the fakest set dressing imaginable... Unless he really loves the "Nondescript White Book" series and plastic plants.

[-]

Solid_Owl@reddit

Even Ikea tries harder than that.

[-]

boraam@reddit

Care to elaborate?

[-]

das_war_ein_Befehl@reddit

Nobody who reads books has them in a single color like that. Those books are there for design reasons, I guarantee you he has no idea what they are or what inside them.

[-]

igorgo2000@reddit

What books are you talking about? All I see is a bunch of white binders (of different size)...

[-]

das_war_ein_Befehl@reddit

Those are designer books you buy to be color coordinated. It’s a home decor trend

[-]

c_glib@reddit

Correct. I've seen book bundles like this in people's houses that always have the shrink wrap on (because it's easier to dust them that way).

[-]

United_Demand@reddit

nice catch

[-]

eve-collins@reddit

It looks like a virtual background, tbh.

[-]

BeeKaiser2@reddit

It's his office. There are other pictures in that room.

[-]

eve-collins@reddit

Lol!

[-]

boraam@reddit

Okay

I hoped OP would explain why he thought the statements had no substance.
About the books.. tbh, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine someone putting jackets on some books.

I read quite a bit.. and there are people around me who wouldn't be averse to such a thing. I don't understand it, but it's not that big of a stretch that others would want to "improve" the aesthetics.

[-]

jakderrida@reddit

Nobody who reads books has them in a single color like that.

That is a freaking great observation. It totally slipped by me.

[-]

Solid_Owl@reddit

If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer.

[-]

jesus359_@reddit

What are the title of the books in the bookshelf?

[-]

HotSquirrel999@reddit

but he said "hot swap", surely he must know what he's talking about.

[-]

lqstuart@reddit

He’s perfecting backpropagation, you wouldn’t understand

[-]

GreenGreasyGreasels@reddit

Don't be too hard on him - from the paniced offscreen glances constantly at the people holding his family hostage - he is doing the best he can.

/s

[-]

dreamingwell@reddit

It’s important to note, Chamath is an original investor in Groq. He’s talking his book here.

[-]

JockY@reddit

What, you don’t like that flashing green and white text sprayed into your eyeballs?

[-]

jazir555@reddit

Those subtitles are actually painful

[-]

DerFreudster@reddit

TLDR: We want cheap, but it's complicated. What do we do?

[-]

Freonr2@reddit

Chamath Palihapitiya said his team migrated a large number of workloads to Kimi K2 because it was significantly more performant and much cheaper than both OpenAI and Anthropic.

some comments that swapping model takes some effort, I assume he means prompt engineering mostly.

[-]

bidibidibop@reddit

He's saying that the prompts need to be fine-tuned for the specific LLM they're sending it to, which is absolutely correct.

[-]

FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Correct, but he's wrapping it in a language which makes it unnecessarily confusing

[-]

peejay2@reddit

Fine tuning in machine learning has a specific meaning. To a generalist audience it might convey the idea better than "prompt engineering".

[-]

FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Yeah, IMO he's using confusing language on purpose to sound more sophisticated.

Remember the Upstart interview?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_YIZyVzymA

That's the same kind of bullshitting.

[-]

nawap@reddit

He does frequently talk out of his ass but in this case it makes sense.

[-]

electricsashimi@reddit

He's probably taking about cursor or windsurf how if you just pick different llms, they have different behaviors calling tools etc. Each application scaffolding needs to be rubbed for best results.

[-]

Freonr2@reddit

Right, this is essentially prompt engineering.

[-]

themoregames@reddit

videos

Wouldn't it be great if whisper transcripts ^1 came out of the box with Firefox? They already have these annoying AI menu things that aren't even half-done. I cannot imagine anyone using those things as they are.

^1 Might need an (official) add-on and some minimum system requirements. All of that would be acceptable. Just make it a one-click thing that works locally.

[-]

LandoNikko@reddit

This has been my wish as well. An intuitive and easy transcription tool in the browser that works locally.

That got me to actually try the Whisper models, so I made an interface for benchmarking and testing with different cloud API models. The reality is that the API models are very fast and accurate, and with local you sacrifice quality with speed and hardware. But the local outputs are still more exciting, as they are locally generated!

You can check out the tool: https://landonikko.github.io/Transcribe-Panel

My local model integrations use OpenAI’s Whisper, but I've seen browser-optimized ONNX weights to be compatible with Transformers.js from Xenova, but haven't been able to test them or other alternatives: https://huggingface.co/models?search=xenova%20whisper

[-]

218-69@reddit

reverse adhd

[-]

throwawayacc201711@reddit

Fuck this podcast. I seriously don’t understand the appeal of it

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

I'm pretty far left by American standards and I listen to it because it's important to understand the tech right's stance on the issues and make an effort to understand where they are coming from. I don't agree with them on a vast majority of things, but that podcast is a much more palatable way for me to digest it while I'm on a run or driving compared to watching fox news or following other right media outlets.

[-]

Pinzer23@reddit

I don't know how you can stand it. I'm center left verging on centrist and probably agree with them on bunch of issues but I can't listen to one minute of these smug pricks.

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

I'm quite far left and I don't really have a problem with the way they talk, like I said, it's not diminutive towards other view points most of the time even if I don't agree with what they are saying it's interesting to hear their perspective on it

[-]

mamaBiskothu@reddit

Sounds more like you keep telling yourself youre very left just like Joe Rogan does.

Or youre just dumb. Listening to their inanity is only possible if you agree with it or youre an idiot.

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

I hope you find peace my friend, this is not a healthy way to react to my comment.

[-]

mamaBiskothu@reddit

Sure buddy. Normalizing people like this and people who support them like you (of course you insist you dont until one day you will) is why we are here today like this. Lookup the paradox of intolerance. Or the nazi bar problem.

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

ok, yeah let's normalize calling people idiots when we disagree with them. That will surely help.

If your political opposition is telling you their entire plan and motivations and perspective, and you are not emotionally stable enough to listen, you are not going to be able to discuss events from an educated stance. You can only talk about your personal opinion, and you clearly struggle at doing that in a respectful manner. That is not going to change anyone's mind, that is just going to make you and the people around you feel bad.

[-]

mamaBiskothu@reddit

I am not in a vacuum and am aware of their plans. You dont need to listen to every episode of the all in podcast to understand the machinations of Sacks or Chummy. Stop masquerading that people have to spend fractions of their lifetimes listening to things they hate. Acknowledge that you are eventually going to be them.

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

lol, what is your goal with this conversation? Like optimal outcome what change are you trying to implement or what ideas are you trying to convey? Do you think you communication techniques are effective towards that goal?

[-]

TechnicalInternet1@reddit

david sacks: "waah i hate sf and homeless people and guvernment, but yes plz fat donald"

chamath: "waah i could not buy off democrats, thats y im red"

Jcal: "waah, whatever elon is doing im going under the table to give him my support ;)"

Freiburg: "I'm somewhat decent but when push comes to shove i will back down."

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

Thanks for your contribution to this conversation

[-]

throwawayacc201711@reddit

There’s so much nonsense in that podcast. It operates under the guise of “health debate” while spewing so many asinine and disingenuous takes. Also they’re not “tech” people. They’re venture capitalists in the tech industry. Sure they might have some cursory knowledge of technology, but that is such a poor source of it. I’m in the tech industry so I have a different perspective listening to them, but it’s a lot of bullshit to me

[-]

TheInfiniteUniverse_@reddit

I agree, the Sacks guy is the only one among them I can tolerate listening to. he's got a lot of old interviews that are very fun to listen to.

[-]

Mescallan@reddit

tbh all partisan media is full of bullshit. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but the ideas they represent in the podcast are the narrative that is prevalent among the oligarchs of the country and I think it's important to at least attempt to understand the stance the publicly present.

Also the tech right, as i specified, is clearly not representative of tech as a whole.

[-]

AnonymousCrayonEater@reddit

Understanding the political landscape through the lens of an oligarch is pretty useful considering they collectively influence most of the decisions being made that affect us directly.

[-]

mamaBiskothu@reddit

Yes but its insane if you think you need to dedicate multiple hours a week to do that.

[-]

AnonymousCrayonEater@reddit

It’s 1 hour per week and I find value in their market analysis (which seems to be happening less and less in favor of political crap that I end up skipping through)

[-]

Lesser-than@reddit

It amazing how many viewers/listeners are HATEwatching different things, I sometimes think it outnumbers the people that like them.

[-]

matteoianni@reddit

Temu Buffett

[-]

bsenftner@reddit

Didn’t this happen like 10 years ago?

[-]

Its_not_a_tumor@reddit

Chamath owns a sizable chunk of Groq and is just pushing this because it supports his investment. The end.

[-]

comment0freshmaker@reddit

This ☝️

[-]

flying-auk@reddit

His SPAC grifting slowed down so now he's on to new and better scams.

[-]

fuckAIbruhIhateCorps@reddit

His awkward eye movements and makes me feel that even the video is AI. lol

[-]

FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Probably just some menial things that could have been done by llama 70b then.

Kimi K2 0905 on Groq got 68.21% score on tool calling performance, one of the lowest scores

https://github.com/MoonshotAI/K2-Vendor-Verifier

The way he said it suggest that they're still using Claude models for code generation.

Also, no idea what he means about finetuning models for backpropagation - he's just talking about changing prompts for agents, isn't he?

[-]

retornam@reddit

Just throwing words he heard around to sound smart.

How can you fine tune Claude or ChatGPT when they are both not public?

[-]

send-moobs-pls@reddit

He said "...these prompts... need to be fine-tuned..."

Which is completely true and still an important part of agentic systems

[-]

maigpy@reddit

I wish we didn't use the terms "fine tuning" for prompts, as it is reserved for another part of the model training process.

[-]

CheatCodesOfLife@reddit

Agreed! They should have fine tuned the script before creating that video.

[-]

reallmconnoisseur@reddit

OpenAI offers finetuning (SFT) for models up to GPT-4.1 and RL for o4-mini. You still don't own the weights in the end of course...

[-]

retornam@reddit

What do you achieve in the end especially when the original weights are frozen and you don’t have access to them. It’s akin to throwing stuff on the wall until something sticks which to me sounds like a waste of time.

[-]

Merida222@reddit

I get what you mean, but fine-tuning can still yield useful insights even if the weights are frozen. It’s more about adapting the model's behavior to specific tasks or datasets rather than modifying the underlying architecture. Sometimes tweaking prompts and training on task-specific data can make a big difference.

[-]

TheGuy839@reddit

I mean, training model head can also be way of fine tuning. Or training model lora. That is legit fine tuning. OpenAI offers that.

[-]

retornam@reddit

What are you fine-tuning when the original weights aka parameters are frozen?

[-]

unum_omnes@reddit

You can add new knowledge and alter model behavior through LoRA/PEFT. The original model weights would be frozen, but a smaller number of trainable parameters would be added that are trained.

[-]

TheGuy839@reddit

You fine tune model behavior. I am not sure why are you so adamant that fine tune = changning model original weights. You can as I said fine tune it with NN head to make it classificator, or with LoRa to fine tune it for specific task, or have LLM as policy and then train its lora using reinforcement learning etc.

As far as I know fine tuning is not exclusive to changing model paramters.

[-]

entsnack@reddit

I've fine tuned OpenAI models to forecast consumer purchase decisions for example. It's like any other sequence-to-sequence model, think of it as a better BERT.

[-]

FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Higher performance on your task that you finetuned for.

If your task is important to you and Sonnet 4.5 does well on it, you wouldn't mind paying extra to get a tiny bit better performance out of it, especially if it gives the green light from management to put it in prod.

Finetuning is useful for some things, and there are cases when finetuning Gemini, GPT 4.1 or Claude models might provide value, especially if you have the dataset already - finetuning itself is quite cheap but you may need to pay more for inference later.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/supervised-fine-tuning

Also, I don’t think he’s “trying to sound smart”; he’s genuinely smart and his audience likes him so he’s not trying to impress them. It’s more likely you don’t know what he’s talking about (like how you didn’t know OpenAI supports creating tunes of their models), or else that he just confused one word or misunderstood its meaning—he is after all a sort of manager type and funder for Groq (I think), not the technical expert engineer, so his job is more to understand the business side of things and have a reasonable high level understanding of how the parts work together and within the market.

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

This guy is a laughing stock in finance. No one takes him seriously here.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

Did you respond to the wrong person?

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

No. You’re talking about the Chamath guy. 💀 he’s not smart at all.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

That’s an insane take. Whether you like him or not, he has indicators of being reasonably above average IQ. People of any persuasion tend to think people they dislike are dumb.

That guy is nowhere near 85IQ, and my intuition tells me he’s at least my IQ so he’s 130+. That’s smart. Not genius, but not normal and certainly not dumb.

Unless you have a different definition of smart.

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

He’s an idiot in finance. Being “smart” doesn’t translate to finance. Lots of PHDs, even the creator of Black Scholes failed miserably.

This guy talks NONSENSE all the time on Bloomberg

I’m a professional money manager. CFA. I can recognize BS a mile away. This guy is clueless.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

You said a lot of things so I’m going to dissect it.

He’s an idiot in finance.

Maybe. I’d prefer to be an “idiot in finance” if it meant my net worth had a floor of $156mil and was likely closer to $1bil+, I had a comfy life, beautiful family, etc.

Being “smart” doesn’t translate to finance.

IQ (commonly understood to refer to “general intelligence” or simply “g”) translates to everything, that’s why it’s such a useful metric—it’s literally generalizable.

At an individual level it’s not as predictive as on a group level, but even at an individual level you can make some safe assumptions. For example, suppose you score two individuals on 100 random task (e.g. kicking a field goal, piloting a small plane with only 5hr of lessons, doing a handstand, etc.); and suppose one of them has an IQ of 115 and the other has an IQ of 100. You can say the individual with a higher IQ will probably complete the tasks a higher score (even if he doesn’t score highest on every task, but only on most tasks or the ones that reward the most points).

Lots of PHDs, even the creator of Black Scholes failed miserably.

Ok

This guy talks NONSENSE all the time on Bloomberg

Ok

I’m a professional money manager. CFA. I can recognize BS a mile away. This guy is clueless.

Nothing to do with IQ. How’s your net worth doing btw?

[-]

maigpy@reddit

beautiful family lol

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

You must not listen to buffet…. IQ has nothing to do with anything. It’s pure luck. He got lucky, just like Elon Musk. Another idiot. Lots of rich idiots. Barack Obama confirmed there’s a lot of FOOLs running countries. 💀

IQ is a test. Doesn’t translate to the real world. At all. Don’t hold your hands down to non important metrics. Rule number one in Finance. You think everything here runs off P/E ratios? lol no… literally a tiny metric in the grand scheme.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

You must not listen to buffet…. IQ has nothing to do with anything.

Buffet isn’t a psychologist.

IQ is, by far (it’s not even close) the most consistently validated metric in all of psychology.

People who criticize it either don’t understand it or are lying.

Ironically, buffet probably had a high IQ.

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/spac-king-palihapitiya-returns-nearly-165827502.html

Hasn't made money since 2018... the SPAC king has fallen erasing most of his early year gains.

The guy is a joke. Look up to him if you want... in my eyes, he's the next Cathy Woods... a joke and a failure.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

I don’t look up to him.

I said he’s smart.

Being smart doesn’t make anyone perfect, and financial stuff is famously, universally known to be hard or impossible to predict and game. But $156mil (probably closer to $1.5bil) is a “failure” I’d be glad to own.

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

Sounds like you look up to an idiot. 💀 do you tell doctors who is a good doctor because they are a celebrity doctor?

🤣 please buddy. Leave finance to the professionals with actual credentials. Not a celebrity VC who got lucky.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

What is reading comprehension?

Like I said, recognizing intelligence is not the same as looking up to someone.

And you still never answered how your finances are doing rich guy. I think $156mil to $1.5bil would be fine with me if it made people like you think I was dumb.

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

Buddy. I’m managing more money than the GDP of most countries. Please sit down. You’re in my domain.

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

Yeah ok

[-]

Due_Mouse8946@reddit

;) this is my domain. We don’t even accept a trade below $25 million. 💀 that’s our lowest size. And even then we are upset with that allocation. 🤣

[-]

foxpro79@reddit

Lol nice humblebrag

[-]

nawap@reddit

Also in most other spheres. The sounds-smart vs is-smart gap is real.

[-]

retornam@reddit

I don’t claim to be all knowing but I know enough to know "fine-tuning” a model without access to the original weights is often a waste of time.

You are just pretend working and paying for api access to OpenAI until something sticks.

[-]

Appropriate_End_8086@reddit

How can you fine tune Claude or ChatGPT when they are both not public?

I'll preface by saying I'm not answering you to defend the idiocy of the video, but you absolutely can finetune proprietary models, what makes you think OAI would miss on businesses who have such needs?

https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/model-optimization

You upload the data you want to do finetuning on and have to use their software and allowed methods, and of course the tuned model stays on their server and you're not going to be using this locally, but you can do it.

[-]

retornam@reddit

I’d rather not pay for API access to spin my wheels and convince myself that I am fine-tuning a model without access to its weights but you do you.

[-]

jasminUwU6@reddit

It's not like seeing the individual weights changing would help you figure out if the fine-tuning worked or not. You have to test it either way.

[-]

retornam@reddit

If we conduct tests in two scenarios, one involving an individual with complete access to the model’s parameters and weights, and the other with an individual lacking access to the underlying model or its parameters, who is more likely to succeed?

[-]

jasminUwU6@reddit

What would you do with direct access to the weights that you can't do with the fine tuning API?

[-]

Bakoro@reddit

Copy the weights and stop paying?

[-]

jasminUwU6@reddit

Lol. Lmao even. Like you can even dream of running a full size gpt-4 locally. And even if you can, you probably don't have the scale to make it cheaper than just using the API.

I like local models btw, but lets be realistic.

[-]

Bakoro@reddit

Woosh

[-]

jasminUwU6@reddit

Try being funny if you want people to interpret your comment as a joke

[-]

maigpy@reddit

he is right - your reply is besides the point that was being made.

[-]

BeeKaiser2@reddit

He's talking about optimizing backpropagation in the context of training/fine tuning the open source model. An engineer probably told him about batch updates and gradient accumulation.

[-]

cobalt1137@reddit

Brother. Stop trying to talk down on people, when you do not know what you were talking about. Openai goes into arrangements with enterprises all the time. The ML people at my previous company were literally working with employees from open AI to help tune models on our own data.

If you are going to insult other people, at least try to do it from any more informed perspective lol.

[-]

retornam@reddit

I didn’t talk down anyone here, neither did I say anything insulting.

[-]

kompania@reddit

Gemini można dostroić:

https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/models/gemini-use-supervised-tuning

[-]

FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

You can finetune many closed weight models, but you can't download weights.

Groq supports LoRA that is applied to weights at runtime too, so they could have finetuned Kimi K2 and they may be applying the LoRA, though it's not necessarily the case.

But I am not sure if Groq supports LoRA on Kimi K2 specifically

Lunch blog post states

Note at the time of launch, LoRA support is only available for the Llama 3.1 8B and Llama 3.3 70B. Our team is actively working to expand support for additional models in the coming weeks, ensuring a broader range of options for our customers.

And I don't know where's the list of currently supported models.

Most likely he's throwing words around loosely here, he's a known SPAC scammer of 2021 era.

[-]

lqstuart@reddit

It’s because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about 🤫

[-]

tolerablepartridge@reddit

The backprop mention is a major red flag that this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

[-]

Thorteris@reddit

Lots of use cases with LLMs actually don’t require high performance. Just speed and low cost

[-]

jazir555@reddit

Those subtitles are literally painful

[-]

dingb@reddit

This guy bullshits.

[-]

UpDown@reddit

I don’t trust any of those guys. Very slimy

[-]

Upper_Road_3906@reddit

most of them do not want open ai they want GPU to be a commodity they can't handle competitors they want a permanent slave system with GPU/COMPUTE credits even if we hit 100% abundance through technology they will argue currency is needed.

[-]

levian_@reddit

Great to hear, but I don't trust this guy

[-]

peejay2@reddit

Does anyone know what company he's talking about? I know he owns a few.

[-]

Compound3080@reddit

8090

[-]

InterestingWin3627@reddit

This guy is such a simpleton, he speaks slowly like hes wise, but he's actually a fool.

[-]

No_Conversation9561@reddit

Damn.. who is he and what’s your beef with him ? 😂

[-]

daynighttrade@reddit

what’s your beef with him ? 😂

No beef, he's just informed. Once you learn more about the guy, you'll share his views

[-]

threeseed@reddit

He is a moron and well known scammer.

No one should ever share his views.

[-]

daynighttrade@reddit

That's what I implied. Not sure why I'm getting downvoted.

Do you think it's meaning something else to you?

The person who replied to me asked why does the person saying negative had a beef. I mentioned he's informed, and if the commentor was informed too, he'll be of the same view. Which implies exactly what you said

[-]

dukesb89@reddit

They think you are saying Chamath is informed

[-]

daynighttrade@reddit

Ah, I see how that could read like that. I was confused. Thanks

[-]

Virtamancer@reddit

Think about what makes Reddit seethe and you’ll have your answer.

If tomorrow he supported AOC and said his son is trans then Reddit would praise him on the front page as a genius.

[-]

nawap@reddit

I think you're making an attribution error. He's loathed because he's a charlatan in all avenues except venture capital.

For an example see this: https://passingtime.substack.com/p/learning-not-to-trust-the-all-in

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Virtamancer@reddit

You’re making a category error—he is liked by his audience, and the reason he’s shit I’m on Reddit is because he’s not sufficiently vehemently anti-right.

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nawap@reddit

It's unfortunate to link to substack but it's about his inability to do maths (not the first time either), not about his politics. But I can only lead the horse to water.

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Virtamancer@reddit

Anyone can make math mistakes (allegedly).

Reddit doesn’t like him for culture war/political reasons.

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nawap@reddit

I think if you listen to him enough and are not convinced that he's a charlatan, I can't offer you this help in this thread.

FWIW I don't live in the US or care about US politics. I do care when people feign expertise. I'm sure his audience likes him. There's a self-selection involved there.

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Virtamancer@reddit

Everyone is a charlatan to some degree. Especially prominent public figures and wealthy people (on all sides of the aisle).

But Reddit hates him specifically because of his politics. They are charlatans, too, for pretending it’s (primarily) about anything else. At best, they’re hypocrites for refusing to levy the same criticisms against people whose politics they favor. Hypocrisy and charlatanism have significant overlap.

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threeseed@reddit

People hated him well before he jumped on the Trump train.

You are just desperate to make everything about politics when it’s not. It’s pathetic.

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Virtamancer@reddit

I'm not talking about people, I'm talking about reddit and redditors.

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Mediocre-Method782@reddit

When you recognize that power is itself a fetish and metapersons and witchcraft are the same picture, you start to see through all this aristocratic magic shit. Back to /r/TeenagersButBetter with you and your little dominant hand larp.

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Virtamancer@reddit

Reddit schizoposting now?

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Mediocre-Method782@reddit

No thanks, I bathe

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peejay2@reddit

This is nonsense. I agree that the All In crowd

Don't know much about politics; and
Are pushing an agenda (e.g. they are careful not to alienate MAGA)

But that doesn't prove your point. He knows about tech - has a background in engineering and worked in tech for a long time. If he's a charlatan in software engineering then you haven't proved it.

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nawap@reddit

How have you proved he knows about software engineering? He's never worked as a software engineer. His first job was as a trader at an investment firm, then he joined winamp to do business development, and continued leading product and business development at AoL and Facebook and since 2011 he's basically done venture capital.

I don't want to assassinate his character, he comes from a first-gen immigrant family and faced hardships. But it does not mean that he talks about things he knows maybe 10% about with the confidence of someone who knows 100% about it.

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saras-husband@reddit

He's Chamath Palihapitiya

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flying-auk@reddit

He's reading a teleprompter.

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JackStrawWitchita@reddit

Point on the doll where he hurt you.

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No_Gold_8001@reddit

Not sure if that is true for every other company but yeah… it is annoying and it is not only price but they suddenly change some random optimization messing everything up…

If you have enough volume getting some GPU is very nice as it allows a bunch of different workflows. You can run batches during off hours, you own the inference stack so it wont change overnight.

So yah anthropic been playing games, daily outages, requests failing, is quite expensive, openai also has its ups and downs. Gpt5 is great but completely changed the way you have to prompt and handle the model (smarter but higher latency due to all the reasoning)

Cost is not that simple as well… reasoning are output tokens so more expensive than a input tokens, you also have to consider prefix caching when doing the math for input tokens , so for each workload you have to consider the provider and model, as a cheaper model can be more expensive depending on the pricing model and workload.

Open source models if you are not hosting are also problematic as each provider does it differently, and you might have tool calling not working, or something like that…. Also pricing for selfhosting is a whole other can of worms.

Meanwhile if you decide to change models I hope you have evals or you are “deploying in the dark”.

So yeah, tradeoffs everywhere… I’d argue that sometimes handling those trade offs is the real job. More than writing agents, rags, pipelines and chatbots.

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IrisColt@reddit

Silicon Valley is migrating from expensive closed-source models to

Stopped reading, too unbelievable.

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sarky-litso@reddit

This dude does crypto and finance scams, what does he know about coding or AI?

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rm-rf-rm@reddit

This is the account of 1 Silicon Valley Firm, not a robust survey of all organizations in the area. The post flair has been edited to reflect that the title is misleading.

(I get we are r/LocalLLaMa and we want to pump local models, but false headlines are not the way)

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eacc69420@reddit

i also don't trust anything Chamath "SPAC king" Palihapitiya says lmao

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Marksta@reddit

The only thing you could trust from him is if he promised you a way you could lose money LOL

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ForsookComparison@reddit

Yeah this post is misleading and on the frontpage because it's a convenient fairytale to believe.

But if some bleeding edge firms (or even just viewers of All-In) keep talking about their cost cutting successes then maybe it'll pick up steam.

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mtmttuan@reddit

So quick google reveals that he's a businessman/investor. I'm sure he barely knows anything about what he talking about.

Granted he isn't supposed to understand all LLMs stuff. Heck even some "AWS mentor" that did presentations for corps don't even understand one bit. However, maybe some middle manager reported to him that their working level people are using open source models and stuff and it works well for them so he's on this podcast and talking shit.

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NandaVegg@reddit

Majority of mentors are like that. I saw in 2023 a person of "mentor"-like position from Google (!) who was posting a LLM training cost breakdown that had numbers confused and mixed up between token count (often billions back then) and parameters count (billions) all over the place. Anyone worked training text AI would have pointed out that the chart made zero sense. I questioned where she got her numbers (did nicely) and she never replied.

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Ok_Fault_8321@reddit

Maybe his take is good here, but I learned to not trust this character years ago.

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ffiw@reddit

These guys are sleaze balls, born scammers, they always have an angle, better ignore them. go with someone credible.

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TheJpow@reddit

I totally believe everything scamath says

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Patrick_Atsushi@reddit

After so many years, I still can't feel the benefit of this type of subtitles.

Maybe I'm old.

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woadwarrior@reddit

I undestood "perfect codegen", but WTAF is "perfect backpropagation"?

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MaterialSuspect8286@reddit

I have no idea what he just said. What exactly restricts him from switching LLMs? Not the cost reason...he was saying something about backpropogation??

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BeeKaiser2@reddit

A lot of the optimizations for fine tuning and serving open source models are model specific. He probably doesn't understand back-propogation, although different model and hardware combinations may require different optimization parameters like batch sizes, number of batches for gradient accumulation, learning rate schedules...

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BumbleSlob@reddit

This guy is a career conman who just finished multiple cryptocurrency rugpull scams. Let’s not let him infiltrate our space.

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fish312@reddit

who is he again?

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daynighttrade@reddit

He's SCAMath, a well known scammer. His claim to fame is being part of Facebook's pre-IPO team. After that he pumped and dumped a lot of SPACs, almost All of them being shitty companies. Apparently after that he was also involved in some crypto rugpulls.

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RoundedYellow@reddit

he popularized SPAC

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farmingvillein@reddit

What exactly restricts him from switching LLMs?

Setting aside the somewhat vacuous language (although I think, for once, he is perhaps getting too much hate)--

All of these models work a little differently and the need for customized prompt engineering can be nontrivial, depending on the use case.

Obviously, a lot of public work ongoing to make this more straightforward (e.g., dspy), but 1) tools like dspy are still below human prompt engineering, for many use cases and 2) can still be a lot of infra to set up.

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Freonr2@reddit

I dunno if he means they're actually hosting their custom fine tunes of K2 because he mentions fine tuning and backprop, but the rest of the context seems to sound more like just swapping the API to K2 so I dunno WTF he's talking about or if he knows WTF he's talking about.

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mtmttuan@reddit

If anyone mentions "backprop" I'll assume he/she doesn't know anything and only throwing random keywords. Nowadays barely anyone has to actually do backpropagation manually. At worst you might need to do custom loss function then autograd and prebuilt optimizers will do the rest. And maybe if you're researchers or super hard core then maybe custom optimizers.

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Ok_Nefariousness1821@reddit

What I think he's saying under the cover of a lot of bullshit VC-speak is that his business is suffering from not knowing which LLM engine to use, using closed-source LLMs to run the business is frustrating and expensive, training models to do specific things for them is time consuming and probably not working, and there's so much model turnover right now that he and his teams are probably going through a lot of decision fatigue as they attempt to find the best "bang for the buck".

TLDR: His teams are likely thrashing around and being unproductive.

At least that's my read.

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Marciplan@reddit

Chamath also lies through his teeth whenever he can and it can provide some kind of positive outcome for himself (in this case, likely, just "I seem very smart")

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

Are there open source models that can compete with ChatGPT or Claude, even close? If yes, please name them.

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FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Kimi K2 is competitive in some things. It has good writing and interesting personality. GLM 4.6 and DeepSeek 3.2 exp are competitive too - you can swap closed models for those and on most tasks you won't notice a difference.

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

Would these work on my Mac with 128 GB? Sorry I don't have a big server. Is it just that I get the gguf file and use it on my laptop?

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FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Pruned GLM 4.6 REAP might work on your Mac - https://huggingface.co/sm54/GLM-4.6-REAP-268B-A32B-128GB-GGUF

There's also MiniMax-M2 230B that would run that was released today, no GGUFs yet though. But it may run on your Mac soon, maybe MLX will support it.

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

Thanks. If you know more, please let me know.

Question, if these models are pruned, doesn't that make them much weaker?

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FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

REAP technique has some promise and the jury is still out on whether it makes them dumb. I used GLM 4.5 Air 3.14bpw 106B and GLM 4.5 Air REAP 82B 3.46bpw and I prefer the un-pruned version, though I used REAP version just a tiny bit, but people have been posting about success with REAP prune of GLM 4.6 on X. On coding benchmarks the pruned versions do fine, but they have poor perplexity metric.

You can try unpruned GLM 4.5 Air too - it's my goto local coding model and it will fit unpruned fine. GLM 4.6 Air will release soon and should be even better.

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

Thanks for explaining!

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Freonr2@reddit

Agree, I don't think the models you mention are really that far behind Anthropic, Google, and OpenAI.

Also, sometimes "95% as good for 1/10th the price" is the right option ignoring what is open weight or not, which is part of what the video was discussing.

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

Actually if this is really true, I swear I'll stop my subscription.

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kompania@reddit

Yes:

Ling 1T - https://huggingface.co/inclusionAI/Ling-1T

Kimi K2 - https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2-Instruct

GLM 4.6 - https://docs.unsloth.ai/models/glm-4.6-how-to-run-locally

DeepSeek-V3.1-Terminus - https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V3.1-Terminus

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TheQuantumPhysicist@reddit

These don't work on a 128GB memory mac, right? I'm no expert but 1000B params is insane!

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jslominski@reddit

"And so like the things that we do to perfect codegen or to perfect back propagation on Kimi or on Anthropic, you can't just hot swap it to DeepSpeed." can someone explain what did he mean by that? 😭

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Ok-Secret5233@reddit

Fucking annoying subtitles. Fucking stupid.

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Fine_Ad8765@reddit

is this guy supposed to be the cheap alternative?

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d70@reddit

This isn’t SV. This is MAGA SV, similar but different.

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rc_ym@reddit

Meh. While the All-In conmen are a good reference point to understand what Kool-Aid silicon valley is drinking these days, one should always be aware they are not disinterested parties. They will provide the advice that benefits themselves while couching it as expert advice.

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ZynthCode@reddit

Holy damn, the subtitles are SUPER DISTRACTING. I am actively trying not to look at it.

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someonesmall@reddit

TLDR don't make yourself dependant on one provider API. Use something like litellm proxy do switch between providers easily.

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Last_Track_2058@reddit

that's not what he said, lot of circle jerking here

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Valuable_Beginning92@reddit

altman didn't call him for afterparty ig.

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DisjointedHuntsville@reddit

That’s the Chinese plan . . . Kill the American AI monetization model through frontier releases that they obtain through a combination of skill and state sponsored intelligence exploits.

It’s an open secret in the valley that Chinese kids working at these labs or even in the research departments of universities are compelled to divulge sensitive secrets to state actors 🤷‍♂️

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Gwolf4@reddit

Sir, we are not in a bond's film

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DisjointedHuntsville@reddit

Err? National security agencies are involved and disagree with you:

https://stanfordreview.org/investigation-uncovering-chinese-academic-espionage-at-stanford/

Stanford is cooperating: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2025/05/statement-in-response-to-stanford-review-article

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Mediocre-Method782@reddit

Militant wings of fertility cults are going to say whatever conserves their existence

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Mediocre-Method782@reddit

Good. Science doesn't care about your whiny intellectual property shit. Good parents actually punish children who whine when other people copy them.

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TechnicalInternet1@reddit

It in fact turns out competition breeds innovation, not giving handouts to the big corps.

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HarambeTenSei@reddit

I ran kimi k2 in cursor and it was pretty bad ngl

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stompyj@reddit

He's doing this because he's friends with Elon. Until you're a billionaire where your results don't matter anymore just do what the other 99% of the world is doing.

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FullOf_Bad_Ideas@reddit

Groq, not Grok.

If he'd be great friends with Elon he'd be moving to Grok 4, Grok 4 Fast and Grok Code Fast 1.

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pablocael@reddit

You for got to add “cheap Chinese open source alternatives”. This can be the new US mistake after delegating production to China, all over again?

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rishiarora@reddit

APAC Crasher king.

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ThenExtension9196@reddit

Sounds like an ad.

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WithoutReason1729@reddit

Your post is getting popular and we just featured it on our Discord! Come check it out!

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BiteFancy9628@reddit

I contend that good open source models are only about 6 months behind the frontier models. But the problem is this is because China is putting a lot of things as open source in hopes of putting a dent in US AI and they’re going to rug pull and already are starting to. And this only applies if you can run the big ones in a data center. For home use nothing is remotely close to as good.

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Major_Olive7583@reddit

That subtitle almost made me punch my monitor.

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a_beautiful_rhind@reddit

For claiming to be tech leaders they are quite behind the curve. Models besides openAI and claude exist.

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ivoryavoidance@reddit

Very hard to tell these days. What's marketing and what's actual. I think whatever is being built using these LLMs, should be tested to a certain degree with open source models as well, atleast the consumer grade ones, if the target market is consumer grade.

That way even if the models change, from openai to qwen, you are not stuck or the app doesn't break because one of them failed to copy a text exactly as pass it to a tool.

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