People who choose to rent instead of buying, what do you plan to do when you retire?

Posted by No-Structure-8125@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 520 comments

Throughout my life I've met several people who have told me that they'd never buy a house and renting is so much better because you can move around, you don't have to pay for repairs, etc. I always ask these people how they plan to continue paying rent when they retire, and their answer is always "I won't live that long." So, does everybody who believes that renting is better than buying just assume they're never going to make it to retirement age? Or are there some of you out there who are planning for your retirement and plan to continue renting? And if so, what are your plans? To be clear, I'm just talking about people who actively choose to rent instead of buy, not people who don't have any choice but to rent.

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robkit@reddit

renting gives you the flexibility to live in an expensive, high-income area, while working...then move to a cheaper, probably even quieter and nicer area (maybe even a cheaper country), in retirement. so long as you are happy to make that move then its a good strategy.

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kaelyna94@reddit

Choose 💀 I rent because I can't afford a deposit or afford a suitable place even though the mortgage would cost less than the rent. I will work until I die. I am 31 year old female. I worry about my future everyday.

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

Don’t you save?

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kaelyna94@reddit

I don't have any money left at the end of the month after rent bills and food and supporting three dependants

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megawoot@reddit

I'm mid-40s, have been renting my whole adult life. I invest diligently and my returns over my lifetime will far outweigh if I bought. Renting is hassle-free, low commitment and for me, cheaper than a mortgage anyway (I have a great deal). We have a national obsession with property ownership. I'm not suggesting that's bad, but it's not the path everyone needs to go down.

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Hame_Impala@reddit

One of the problems with said obsession is you end up with lots of people who spend basically everything they have to get on the property ladder, and are then skint after, even if the place they've bought isn't all that great. Then said people expect to be bailed out if something goes wrong or oppose local developments if it'll bring the price of their property down. Have seen plenty of people buy at a point where they could've benefited renting longer. Or, similarly, you end up with landlords who feel like it's their right to extract every last drop from their tenants because they invested in a second property they could barely afford in the first place.

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marquoth_@reddit

I live in the only house I've ever owned, and my mortgage payments have always been _less_ than my rent was for a single room in an HMO. I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Hame_Impala@reddit

Mortgage payments are less, aye, not disputing that. But I've seen homeowners buy and find themselves with pretty much nothing in the way of savings, in a world where homeownership wasn't the be all and end all they wouldn't be spending pretty much everything they have to immediately get on the property ladder. Lots can go wrong - interest rates go up, major repairs needed, unable to sell if you want to move on.

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marquoth_@reddit

This comment amounts to cherry picking one end of the bell curve from one set and comparing against the cherry-picked opposite end of the bell curve of the other set. It's like trying to say women are taller than men because _some_ women are 6'1" and _some_ men are 5'9"

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newbie_long@reddit

Spot on

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steak_bake_surprise@reddit

That's great, until the landlord decides to retire and sell up, then you're stuck with all these years of possessions and finding somewhere new to live, which could be worse than the last place and no friends nearby. I've been there a few times, it's not fun and that's why I bought. I just don't want that over my head ever again.

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

New rent control law keeps tenants put

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WGSMA@reddit

People say this, but it’s overwhelming not true At the top end of the market, it’s very stable.

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steak_bake_surprise@reddit

That must the MPs renting out their houses then :p

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

If you have the money, it would be great to rent when you get older, as all the house maintenance is no longer your responsibility.

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obb223@reddit

Yeah, but also none of the house maintenance is your responsibility. As in you are at the mercy of sh!tty landlords taking weeks to fix something and bodging it to save money

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

You know you don't have to rent privately and be at the mercy of the market? Many other countries manage to offer limited, but decent rentals, where there is good oversight of maintenance schedules, tenants' rights, etc.

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NEWSBOT3@reddit

one problem with this - currently 80% of retirees own their property, so 20% rent. by 2050 that's predicted to be 50-50. So we need a big increase in the number of rental homes available over the next 25 years

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Larnak1@reddit

I think that's a positive. People renting have a way higher incentive and are more likely to downsize when they need less space, which frees up space for families that actually need bigger houses. People who buy typically live there until they can't anymore, often blocking big houses for just 1 or 2 people, then eventually leaving it in heavy need of renovation as they didn't keep up the maintenance for the last 10+ years.

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CaterpillarLoud8071@reddit

That's why we need to replace council tax and stamp duty with a property or land tax. People should be encouraged to downsize when they can and shouldn't profit more from just owning a house than actual productive investment.

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Larnak1@reddit

Absolutely agreed, especially stamp duty. It punishes everyone who cannot afford their "final home" immediately, and encourages never to move.

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sativador_dali@reddit

We have a national obsession as it’s often cheaper to make repayments on a mortgage, than to pay someone else’s mortgage + contributions to their livelihood and property maintenance. My mortgage repayments are roughly 600 per month cheaper than it would cost me to rent. It’s also an appreciating asset. I could sell it tomorrow and be up far more than I’ve actually paid in just for living here.

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megawoot@reddit

As you say, it's often the case. My point is that it's not always. My landlord owns outright. I pay about 30% below market rate and significantly less than if I was to own the place and pay a mortgage. It's an expensive property. The other thing in play is that I'd never buy this place. It's a new build flat. With a high service charge. Also, if I'd bought this place in the last 7 years the property would be worth less than I paid.

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sativador_dali@reddit

That’s why it’s a ‘national obsession’ though isn’t it, as most landlords want a nest egg or passive income. Can’t see why anyone would buy a new build property outright to let out for 30% below market rate.

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megawoot@reddit

It happens. You not understanding it doesn't stop it. The landlord is wealthy and is happy to just have sensible tenants. I know a number of other people renting in similar situations.

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sativador_dali@reddit

You’re a helmet

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Ambitious5uppository@reddit

On the otherside to your situation. In the last 6 years I've paid 120k in rent. When I moved in the place was worth 250k, and now it's worth 480k. In that time rent has increased by 35% or so. Had it been a mortgage, the mortgage payments wouldn't have increased, it would be half paid off, and worth nearly double. But for me renting made sense at the time, and now it makes sense to buy. So not a problem. But had I known then that I would stay put instead of moving in a year like I expected, it would have absolutely made more sense to buy. The thing with buying is it's a good investment basically no matter what. Even if you decide to rent for yourself, owning somewhere is basically a free investment as someone else is paying your mortgage.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

> We have a national obsession with property ownership I know. The pressure to conform with that is absolutely crushing. I don't like being a homeowner. Detested the process of becoming one and even 5-6 years later I'm still very wary of having to do it again.

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

What a strange and twisted view of buying a house. Why do you think being questioned about the source of cash is a bad thing? Anti-money laundering laws are a *good* thing. And why describe it in such authoritarian terms!? How paranoid are you!? Reality - “you’re paying £xk deposit. What’s the source of that cash?” “Savings. Specifically savings for a deposit.” “Great. Thanks.”

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

Except when you've inherited money recently. Or had a windfall. Or someone has gifted it to you.

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

> Except when you've inherited money recently. Or had a windfall. Or someone has gifted it to you for any reason even if not intended to help you buy the house. Or have other sources of income e.g. investments. “I got inheritance” “Ok great” > You can buy a £220k Bentley almost no bother, but a £220k house and they're on you like bed bugs. Having worked in car sales for a decade… no you can’t. Pay for anything with more than c.£5k in cash and it will flag. As salesmen we had to ask what the source was. This is common practice in the UK and again, I’m not sure what your problem is. Do you just not like people asking personal questions?

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Tony-The-Heat@reddit

Because defaulting on a £220k Bentley means they take the car (plus any depreciation obviously) but defaulting on a £220k house means they take away where you live. That is rightly a more difficult process and therefore they are rightly more cautious. The 2008 crash wasn't caused by car loans.

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marquoth_@reddit

> Renting absolutely has its place and should not be dismissed out of hand. I agree, but that's not really the discussion at hand. The rest of this comment is gibberish.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

So you can buy and sell houses as easy as cars, then? You've sold houses without having to talk to banks and solicitors or do any legal stuff whatsoever?

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ShefScientist@reddit

"I invest diligently and my returns over my lifetime will far outweigh if I bought." Does that include deducting off the cost of renting over a lifetime? Or you are just comparing investment returns with HPI.

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WGSMA@reddit

The honest answer is that most people on ‘buy vs rent’ are not doing the full numbers They’re omitting a lot of the costs of ownership, such as moving transactions and taxes, maintenance, and the opportunity cost of capital in the deposit.

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ShefScientist@reddit

yes exactly. A true comparison would include cost of renting, cost of stamp duty if you buy, cost of maintenance if you own etc.

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

Right, but my mortgage ends when I’m 52. If I live to 78 as expected, that’s 26 years without a monthly payment.

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WGSMA@reddit

Sure, but have you seen what your initial deposit + estate agent fees could have done in the market over 40+ years? Have you looked at how much you’ve paid in Stamp Duty and Maintenance on top of that mortgage? The truth is £180k house tells me it’s in a Low Cost area, and there buying almost always is the best option. But renters by choice are overwhelmingly in cities where the maths is more balanced.

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glowingGrey@reddit

Most people who do the rent calculations don't account for rent inflation properly, whereas mortgage costs aren't inflationary. Things like maintence costs are also equivalent over the long term, rental properties' maintenance isn't magically lower than owners', it's just rolled into the rent. If renting was genuinely cheaper you should be able to buy a house and rent it out to yourself.

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Majestic_Matt_459@reddit

I find the maths hard to believe. I bought a property in 2008 for £155k and spent £25k making it livable. It’s now worth over £500k I’ve paid no rent I’ve had 3 lodgers most of the time so in today’s money £1500pcm rent Apart from if I’d bought apple shares or bitcoin fir 50p I doubt many investors have done better

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KaleidoscopeSea3756@reddit

If you invested $180k into the S&P500 in 2008, after 18 years, you would have £1,126,581

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EntrepreneurAway419@reddit

Yeah but they would likely have had a 10% deposit and not bought outright

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Majestic_Matt_459@reddit

Exactly this. House buying allows leverage. I actually started with £1000 as in those days developers did low deposits

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Stunning_Hedgehog960@reddit

You’ve done really well. Many people likely don’t have lodgers so they won’t have that for comparison, and similarly not everyone’s home value will have increased the same way. There are a couple factors missing though (you likely still come out on top but): have you had to replace any appliances since you moved in or do any repairs. What are your heating bills like? People who rent don’t have to pay for repairs themselves and their heating bills are generally much lower. Like I say, in your case, the maths absolutely work in your favour, but when you total all costs of home ownership generally vs all costs of renting, the benefit of owning is not always the clear winner (especially if you’re renting and investing extra savings wisely - for some people the benefit of renting puts them ahead financially).

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_Cridders_@reddit

Why would someone who rent's heating bills be lower?!?

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Stunning_Hedgehog960@reddit

I suppose it depends what you’re renting. If it’s a house there’ll be no difference. I was thinking of flats, where the spaces are generally smaller and the heat front the flats around you help heat your own home. There was a post about this on Reddit the other day - someone went from renting a flat to buying a house and was shocked their bills went up 3-4 times what they had been paying.

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_Cridders_@reddit

Well yeah but that's nothing to do with renting. You can rent a house and you can own a flat.

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pibandpob@reddit

I was going to ask the same!

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hefore@reddit

£180K invested in a NASDAQ-100 index fund in 2008 is now worth £2.6M.

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marquoth_@reddit

Why are you comparing the cost of the house to just investing the money, as if a renter has no outgoings? You still need somewhere to live, and you can't live in your stock portfolio. The correct comparison is the return on paying a mortgage vs the rerurn on _paying rent_ ie any increase in the value of the property vs absolutely nothing. Even if you assume you could rent a property for less than the mortgage payments on the same property (doubtful, otherwise landlords logically would not exist), the available capital for investment is only the difference between the two sums, **not** the total mortgage payment. I'm skeptical that could ever outpace the property price increase.

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

Which is irrelevant. That person almost certainly paid no more than £15k deposit (10%). Add the renovation and that’s £40k. People don’t buy houses outright. So you can’t compare ‘buying’ (in reality mortgaging) a house in 2008 with investing the same amount in 2008.

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Dazzling-Werewolf985@reddit

Nobody’s getting a mortgage to invest in nasdaq tho, and that £180k is also the money he would’ve had to use on rent in that time anyway

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

great question, very important to understand that when comparing. for me it never made sense to give the money to someone else, even if it was slightly cheaper to rent. also, what happens if the 'great deal' ends? presumably renting the same place at the same great rate will not be possible for the next 40 years with certainty? many people have very shitty experiences having to move frequently, and its stressful to have to do

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Larnak1@reddit

You give the money to someone else either way, unless you buy outright. It takes many years on standard mortgages until you get to the point where the vast majority of the monthly payment is not just interest. What many buyers forget to include into the equation is an average for maintenance, bigger fixes, work they do themselves to keep everything in shape, opportunity cost of putting your deposit into a house instead of investing it, and potential additional fees (estate fees, tax, ..). Most research investigating the comparison shows that there is no clear winner between renting and buying, mainly because the market adjusts - if buying is super expensive, people start to rent more, which pushes the rents up, and vice versa. Buying is typically better if house prices increase steeply over the decades, while renting comes out top when they only increase moderately or not at all.

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

yes I agree you do pay someone else in some form, but if as your research suggests that mortgage costs usually approximately equal rental costs, you are at least paying some of that money to yourself rather than someone else completely whilst renting on the ongoing costs point (maintenance/insurance etc), these are dwarfed by the value of the house at the end of the 25/30 years, so thats not really an argument you can use to not buy, and that isn't even considering the ongoing cost of renting beyond the point at which you would own outright. for example paying a mortgage over 30 years (£750/m = £270,000) vs paying rent over 50 years (£750/m = £450,000). as for the 'investing the money instead' argument, this also doesn't really add up most of the time as if most rentals generally are about the same price as a mortgage (as indicated by the research), the house value at the end of the 25/30 years will be far more than the normal investment gains (for example £30k down at 3% increase above inflation would lead to 70k over 30 years, far less than the price of your house, if that has kept up with inflation, not even grown). that isnt even taking into account the 20 more years you will be paying rent so unless you have a very niche set of circumstances to fit your lifestyle, like travelling a lot etc, there aren't many reasons not to buy a house if you are fortunate enough to do so with the current state of house prices

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Larnak1@reddit

Maintenance is estimated to be an average of 1.5% of the property value per year, higher on older properties. If you take that on top of the mortgage payment, your monthly costs are typically about 30% higher than the mortgage itself. That's everything but "dwarfed". Your down payment example forgets to take the typical "unexpected" purchase costs into account, which could come down to another £5000. On more expensive properties, you would also get Stamp Duty to increase the opportunity cost further. If you combine that "starting lump sum" (35k) with the expected difference between the real monthly cost of a house and rent (which, on a £300k property, are probably around £300 of the £1675 monthly mortgage + maintenance, not included any other costs, assuming rent of £1375 and mortgage payments of £1300 at 4% interest), the calculation suddenly ends up in a very similar ballpark, and you realise that all the unpredictable factors (inflation, interest, market returns, house price prediction, "luck" with your local rent / your local house price) mean that changing only a few numbers to similarly realistic scenarios start to flip around which option is better. I understand you set house price increases to 0, but your 3% investment returns above inflation are the typical value that the stock market beats property returns by, so that value works well for the comparison (post-inflation returns at the stock market would be more around 5%, while house price increases post inflation can be averaged around 2%).

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

go ahead, rent your whole life, you’ve clearly got it all figured out lmao

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Larnak1@reddit

I saw the lmao that you edited out :P very... mature :>

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

lmao

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Salt_Inspector_641@reddit

To put into comparison. I bought at 21. I am now 40. All I put down was 30k deposit. I’ve never paid off my mortgage. Only paid the interest. But now the house is double in value, so I’ve made 300k in equity I still have a 300k mortgage but it only costs 750 a month. We are moving out next year, because we are going to rent it out instead since we don’t realise rent prices for it are around 3750 That initial 30k feels like it has gone a great way. I think trying to jump on the ladder early is the most sensible thing to do

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robowns87@reddit

Hassle free is a stretch given your costs are being dictated by someone else every year, but understand re: maintenance. I do agree that the national view that your house is an investment is daft, I have no desire to make money from my property I just want to live somewhere I enjoy. Dead soon anyway.

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marquoth_@reddit

If renting was cheaper than paying a mortgage, landlords wouldn't exist. > my returns over my lifetime will far outweigh if I bought This just doesn't make sense. It's like the alternative to paying a mortgage is just having that money spare to invest, when in reality it has to go towards rent - which generates no return at all.

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Cearball@reddit

This is an interesting answer that I never fully thought of. What's your rent (if you don't mind me asking) & what do you invest in. As in an all works tracker etc.?

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Strange-Tea7949@reddit

Purchased my home and 6 years later it went up by £90k. I wouldn't have gained the equity needed to receive such returns in the same amount of time. I view my mortgage as a form of savings. Each month I buy a little more of my home. I do save and invest alongside, so it's entirely possible to purchase a home and benefit from the price increases and have an investment portfolio alongside, including pension.

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benketeke@reddit

Just to add it also gives you the freedom to move for a better opportunity whenever it comes. Opportunity cost of having a mortgage and being tied down too early in life can also be huge.

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Smart_Record_7989@reddit

I bought a house early, but often wonder if renting would have been a better option. Unless you’re in a major city or tourist area (or you’re in your 50s and experienced the housing boom), property isn’t the deal a lot of people think it is… Every year I have huge expenses just maintaining the thing and getting trades in to fix little things, get appliances replaced etc + pay a bunch of things renters don’t like building insurance, stamp duties, etc I have to be worried about my neighbours and street politics as the majority of my wealth is tied up in my street. With a rental I have no ties. If I lose my job I can literally get one anywhere and move my home to it with relative ease. The savings I make would (presumably) go into a greater income and savings (rather than kitchen refurbishments and sofas). It’s not an obvious choice.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

Finally, someone who doesn't blindly jump on this 'property ladder' train that has become somewhat cultural in the UK.

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bestestBoy2014@reddit

Well a mortgage in my region is several £100 less a month than rent I pay here these days. I for one absolutely cannot wait to leave renting behind in a few months and get my house, had enough of filling a landlords coffers.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

Even with a deposit of over 30%, it still took me two years before my mortgage payments fell behind my old rent.

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bestestBoy2014@reddit

That sucks for you. In my case, mortgage is _certainly_ cheaper even at 10% deposit

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marquoth_@reddit

> This meme of "mortgage is cheaper than rent" isn't always true. If renting was cheaper than paying your own mortgage, there would be no private landlords.

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

the vast majority of opinions are that it is better for them to buy property, because it is better for them to buy property. you see far less opinions that its better for someone to rent, as you need quite niche circumstances for it to make financial or emotional (security of housing) sense

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Larnak1@reddit

You can see that the vast majority of opinions does not really know what they are talking about by the naivety they are approaching the comparison with. All of these people are not in the position to rationally judge what is better for them. In the UK, everyone \*thinks\* that buying is better for them, as that is what is culturally ingrained into the population, and only very few people do actively question that dogma and bother to read up on the available research that is way more ambiguous than the public opinion.

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marquoth_@reddit

I love this kind of comment. "Everyone else is naive and stupid except me, and if only they'd _do their research_ they'd see" but never a link to any of this "research." My mortgage is less than my rent ever was, the house I own is nicer than anywhere I ever rented, I don't have to share it with strangers, and on top of all of that I have a quarter of a million in equity vs the literal nothing I'd have if I'd been renting the last decade instead of buying a house when I did. It's nothing short of insanity to tell me I only **think** this was the better option.

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

its not a bad assumption to make though, as in the vast majority of cases it is the better financial (and emotional in terms of housing security) to make if people are not engaged enough to think through what it means in detail, then it is the safer of the options as generally they will not have to continue to pay rent into retirement, and what percentage of the people who are not engaged also do not engage with their pension so i think its fair enough that people have this naive assumption

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Zavodskoy@reddit

Mortgage on my house is £700 a month, I could move out and rent it for at least double that.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

What about the rest? Council tax, gas, electricity, water, internet, tv license, insurance, maintenance, repairs, service charges?

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marquoth_@reddit

Tenant pays those

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Free_Ad7415@reddit

Council tax, gas, electricity , water, tv license, insurance and internet are all costs borne by tenants, unless it’s an HMO with ‘bills included’ which just means they’re paying for them indirectly.

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Zavodskoy@reddit

My bills in total are less than what it would cost just to rent a house the size I live in, I'd then have to pay all of those bar maintenance and insurance on top of the double the cost rent

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GallusRedhead@reddit

I think when you’re young, and/or single then there is a lot more opportunity and flexibility with renting. As soon as you have children, and to some degree a partner as well, that flexibility goes. I couldn’t up sticks and move if I lost my job because I’d have to consider my partner, childcare, changing schools, proximity to wider family etc. In my situation, buying as definitely a better choice (even though I absolutely recognise the ‘hidden costs’ and the fear of street/neighbourhood issues causing long term problems or even reducing the value of my home). On balance though, I’m glad I own. I also had a shit landlord and a high rent though so that’s probably skewed my opinion too 😅

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detta_walker@reddit

Building insurance is priced into the rent. What are your expenses? We don't get trades in unless we have to. Lots of stuff can be learned on YouTube.

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HeWhoHasABeard@reddit

If you was to sell up and move though you would very likely get a return on your investment Also mortgage payments are normally less than rents as well so you would very likely double better off

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Smart_Record_7989@reddit

I’m really not sure I would… I think I wouldn’t have “lost rent”, but I’m pretty sure I’d at best break even when you consider the taxes fees and costs I’ve spent maintaining it + (more importantly) the effects of inflation. I think people don’t consider this enough. If eg a £500k house is worth £550k 5 years later… recently that means it’s “less” valuable due to inflation (ignoring all the other costs)

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detta_walker@reddit

Meanwhile a renter has nothing. Except their rent has gone up and will continue to go up. I bought back in 2014. My mortgage is half of what it would be if I were to buy my house again today. At some point it will be paid off. A tenant still pays. And rent prices have of course gone up.

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MushroomOutrageous@reddit

Also rent goes fully to the landlord, paying mortgage builds our wealth, we owe something and can sell it. Even if mortgage is not fully paid off, there will be equity released if we have to sell. If someone doesn't like maintaining property (like me), buying a flat is a good option. There is a service charge, but no work to do, unless someone wants to redecorate.

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steak_bake_surprise@reddit

Yeah I don't get why people think your house is suddenly worth nothing if you have to sell. Mine has gone up by 50k in 8yrs. On the flip side, my mates are still pissed they wasted 60k renting over the same timeframe.

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Larnak1@reddit

So neither you nor your mates has ever bothered to read up a scientific or at least somewhat competent comparison between the renting the houses while you keep discussing the topic is what you are saying? :P

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Trace6x@reddit

Basically this, unless a serious amount of new housing pops up (which we all know is just not going to happen any time soon) owning property is such a historically surefire way to generate wealth.

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Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit

Except that my rent doubled over the past 5 years, your mortgage probably didn’t

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marquoth_@reddit

> Every year I have huge expenses... You think renters aren't also paying for that stuff? It's literally baked into the rent. The cost is spread evenly rather than being hit with a bill all in one go, which I suppose helps with budgeting, but don't delude yourself that renters aren't paying it. Plus you can expect to have a chunk deducted from your deposit every time you end a tenancy, to cover exactly these costs you seem to think renters don't face. > With a rental I have no ties Well you do - you have a contract. > The savings I make What savings? If renting was cheaper than paying a mortgage, landlords would not exist.

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FactorEmotional2115@reddit

If Renting, the Landlord can give you 2 months notice and there aren't any properties out there . So anxiety all the time.

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

People who think renters don’t have to pay for repairs, new appliances, insurances and stamp duty etc are insane. Those costs are in your rent. You *are* paying them.

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Free_Ad7415@reddit

Um, no- noone’s making you buy a new kitchen, and if it’s a necessity then you’ll probably get your money back eventually. Renters buy sofas too. Mortgages are often less than rent.

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steak_bake_surprise@reddit

My house is 100 years old and has had little maintenance over 8yrs, so that's just pot luck I guess. And renters are paying all those insurance costs, it's just added into the monthly cost as a stealth tax. And what's the chances the landlord won't consistently rise the rent every year, at least I know where I am on a fixed mortgage.

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NEWSBOT3@reddit

its the supply of shit rentals that are the issue. I'd happily rent all my life if i could but the quality of what is out there is bloody awful, and they want 50% more rent for it than they did 5 years ago, which is hard to stomach. if it was shit and cheap that'd be one thing, but shit and expensive is taking the piss.

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Trace6x@reddit

on the flip sound \*many\* landlords do the absolute bare minimum of maintaining their properties. My place is falling apart for example, they'll only send someone out if there's a burst pipe or some kind of life threatening problem

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happy_faerie@reddit

Both my sets of grandparents have rented their wholes lives, they're in their 80s now. Their pensions cover rent and they live extremely cheaply. They do have very reasonable rents though because they live up north.

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

Will you have reasonable rent in the future? Will there even be a state pension to help cover it?

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No-Translator5443@reddit

It’s fine they can live in a caravan in a lay-by, that’s what a lot of people are doing now

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

With the new rent law, yes, it’s going to be stable

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Huge-Promotion-7998@reddit

Well it's a fairly reasonable assumption that we won't see pensioners left homeless and destitute. If that happens I think we'll all be in trouble.

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_thetrue_SpaceTofu@reddit

I'm sorry to be pessimistic, but I truly think I'm realistic in saying that in 35 years time that could be a likely scenario

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Mr-Tourette@reddit

Thats why its compulsory to have a workplace pension now, so it can eventually be phased out/reduced to a pittance or be means tested

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Awkward_Aioli_124@reddit

Compulsory to offer/ auto enrol. You can't stop people from opting out though.

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Mr-Tourette@reddit

Indeed..but that wont last.much longer

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thesockpuppetaccount@reddit

Workplace Defined Contribution pensions are a scam, compared to what we used to have. Pensions calculated on a percentage of your earnings and the company would have to actuarially fund the pot every x years. Glorious retirements compared to auto enrolment pensions, all robbed from us because of government meddling. 🧐

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Various-Advice-9768@reddit

When you say we used to have who are you talking about and when ?

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thesockpuppetaccount@reddit

My grandfather, my father up to his mid career but all gone by the time I got into the workforce. The same age bracket for most of us, I’d suspect.

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Neither-Stage-238@reddit

Everything's a scam compared tow har we used to have and current pensions have.

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Ok-Flatworm6098@reddit

Erm, it’s one of the main reasons Bhs went bust, DB pensions are a hugeeeee liability on a company’s books! As a business owner, if I was forced to set up a DB pension for my employees, I’d genuinely would have to close up shop. Autoenrolment has helped employees of simple mom and pop shops to save for retirement, the point is the risk is now shared between both the business and the employee for the employees retirement, instead of it all being just on the business

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TheRadishBros@reddit

This was practically the norm 30 years ago. Pensioners were much poorer than they are today and basically synonymous with poverty. That’s why the triple lock was introduced in the first place.

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Historical_Owl_1635@reddit

You can just as easily paint another narrative from this. 30 years ago life for pensioners was much worse. Go back another 30 years and it was even worse. Excluding things such as war, you can repeat that pattern throughout most of modern history. Now the narrative is “the life of pensioners has steadily and gradually increased over time”.

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FrothingRantallion@reddit

Aren't we meant to hate them now? I thought ageism was the allowable discrimination? Tarring an entire generation with the same slurs 'Fucking boomers' etc.

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YSOSEXI@reddit

I don't get the hate, they are the 'Wankers' parents, Grand Parents' etc....

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No_Camp_7@reddit

They said house prices could never fall before 2008

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CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit

>Well it's a fairly reasonable assumption that we won't see pensioners left homeless and destitute Yet.

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Awkward_Aioli_124@reddit

We'll end up with some modern version of the workhouse

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

I truly hope that's not the case - just merely suggesting that the state pension is unlikely to be around or paying out the same amount in 35 years time.

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Neither-Stage-238@reddit

As a current younger workers spending half my pay on rent to my elderly labdlordlord. Its quite infuriating i also pay him £900 tax i will never receive.

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luckless666@reddit

It definitely won’t be paying the same amount - the current amount is already pretty unsustainable.

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Technical_Ad4162@reddit

No pensioner would be left homeless and destitute. They would just have to move in with their adult kids in THEIR home. Oh, wait…They rent too.

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mireilledale@reddit

Oh I think that’s quite likely if not nearly guaranteed.

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PutAutomatic2581@reddit

Without a revolution soon, no life is guaranteed.

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Andries89@reddit

The trajectory since 2007 says differently

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happy_faerie@reddit

How would I know?

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aliceinlondon@reddit

I think that’s the point they’re making

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Far-Hospital-9961@reddit

They’re taking about their grandparents, are they not?

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Definius-Perillious@reddit

So what's the plan then? Stop paying rent and start saving for a house deposit?

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And_Justice@reddit

The word "choose" in the title implies ability to save for a house deposit without refusing to pay your rent

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Read the last paragraph of the post.

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And_Justice@reddit

Idk why you're telling me this, that's my point

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BeatificBanana@reddit

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person accidentally, meant to be the person above you.

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And_Justice@reddit

Yeah fair enough

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zq6@reddit

The question feels a bit dismissive or even patronising imo. Lots of people would prefer to buy but it simply isn't an option for them yet.

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And_Justice@reddit

That's not who the question is for, though? They're specifically asking people who have the means to but have chosen not to.

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Definius-Perillious@reddit

Thats a very small amount of the population i bet

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Majestic-Marcus@reddit

Jesus dude, do you just *want* to be offended and indignant?

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Definius-Perillious@reddit

Hmm, shallow and pedantic

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And_Justice@reddit

"Wahhh you're not allowed to ask a question about house buying without giving me opportunity to moan about how I can't afford to"

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Definius-Perillious@reddit

Thats the spirit boyo

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And_Justice@reddit

and yet it's who they're fucking asking

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banedlol@reddit

KMS if it's not possible to afford

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Own_Experience863@reddit

If your only hope of saving a deposit is to stop paying your rent, then this post isn't for you. You're clearly not renting out of choice.

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

Exactly, so you are making a guess on something you won't know - just because it's here today do not expect it to be tomorrow.

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olivinebean@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/ss2eqgfwhvwf1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02736a11d0c345ca1dd7c5cf70953bd58e67ed9b

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happy_faerie@reddit

Good grief I was just sharing a story.

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lozz79@reddit

Is this not the right room for an argument?

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

Apologies if it's taken the wrong way - just pointing out that state pensions (as many do not have private) might not be available in years to come.

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HotNeon@reddit

Of course there will be a state pension. How generous it is though, that is up for debate

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Tkdcogwirre1@reddit

lol. There will be no state pension for the average Joe. It will be means tested at best. Binnned off completely at worst and replaced with more credit. In my opinion

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DeepSpaceNineInches@reddit

State pension isn't going anywhere.

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Think_Preference_611@reddit

People should run a quick simulation to see how much they'll get as a state pension.

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Candid_Associate9169@reddit

Hopefully there will be universal basic income and rent control in force.

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intelligentbug6969@reddit

Exactly.

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rFAXbc@reddit

They're fine as long as the landlord doesn't decide to sell up. Moving house in your eighties would be rough.

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SanitySlippingg@reddit

Some crazy assumption to risk your future on. We’re in vastly different times, even vs our parents, let alone grandparents.

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Historical_Owl_1635@reddit

Your parents and grandparents went through many economic (and other) disasters and crashes, some worse than we’re yet to see. Times are vastly different for every generation, that’s the way time works and every generation thinks they’ve got the worst hand ever dealt at the time.

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SanitySlippingg@reddit

I agree with some of what you’ve said but I’m pretty sure house prices are at a high relative to income etc and the spending power of money has dropped significantly. It was something like 37% in 20-30 years. 50 years ago your average man could buy a house on the average wage. Thats not possible anymore. Then look at the redistribution of wealth that’s taken place, sped up by the digital age. Thats without us potentially losing the NHS which I believe will go before I retire. Back in the day, from what my grand parents told me, people cared about one another. These days the majority are out for themselves. I understand you’re an owl who’s aptly named as you’ve seen a lot of history but I feel strongly on this matter,

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Historical_Owl_1635@reddit

You talk about houses prices, but 50 years ago home ownership was much less common than it is now. In fact as a % more people own homes now than they did back then. Home ownership being seen as the goal is actually a relatively modern post-WW2 goal.

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StruggleHot1506@reddit

That's funny, I wonder if there was some form of major event in history that killed a lot of people that would somehow result in the population of a country being drastically lower than it is now...

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Historical_Owl_1635@reddit

Well you’d be wrong, as the further you go back the lower home ownership becomes and pre-WW1 it was a tiny minority that owned homes.

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SanitySlippingg@reddit

That’s because everything was more affordable and there wasn’t a housing shortage with the prices high and supply as there is now. So there wasn’t the need to have the security of a home.

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Gullible-Lie2494@reddit

Friend of mine's parents had always rented then got turfed out late in life. Very traumatic and the father died soon after. His wife within a year. I could never understand why they hadn't got a council house.

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Western-Mall5505@reddit

It's impossible to get a council house.

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Connect-County-2435@reddit

A three bedroom house on our estate up north rents for around £1200. Imagine 15 years from.now, sod that.

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happy_faerie@reddit

Did I accidently write EVERYONE PLEASE DO THIS THERE WILL BE NO REPERCUSSIONS in my comment an didn't realise?

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FatPancakes247365@reddit

FFS, WHY DONT YOU HAVE ALL OF THE ANSWERS?????

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h00dman@reddit

I admire your patience.

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Silly-Industry1527@reddit

I live up north. Can you point me in the direction of this reasonable rent please?

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happy_faerie@reddit

Nope do your own research im not telling you where my family lives lol

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AutomaticInitiative@reddit

I live in whats the cheapest place in the country to rent, and I regret to inform you that my estimated pension if I continue to save will not pay my bills in the inexpensive place I live now.

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_Jayman__@reddit

Much more common for that generation though

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Ok-Tangelo-2499@reddit

And your grandparents as a result have very little wealth to pass down to your parents and you. Might be great for them, but you're going to suffer from lack of inheritance.

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happy_faerie@reddit

🤷‍♀️ They could never afford to buy soo not much anyone could do about it

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AggressiveTooth1971@reddit

Not a dig but a genuine question - do they rent council or private?

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happy_faerie@reddit

Both of them privately

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AggressiveTooth1971@reddit

Well this definitely gives me hope! Thank you

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reguk32@reddit

At the whim of landlords. I live further up north (Scotland), and price inflation would make my house cost about double to rent than my mortgage. I've just started a 7 year fixed rate, and God only knows how much the rent would be by then.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

Good for them. Small point of order; this will 100% not be possible anymore, so please nobody read the parent comment and be inspired by it. You do not want to be spending what little pension you will have on rent; seriously. Houses in some parts of the UK do remain very affordable today, so it is worth considering, should you not have the skills/experience to earn megabucks to relocate to somewhere in the UK that has a cost of living more in-line with your own personal affordability. Many very beautiful and low-cost areas of the UK exist today. It may be the best decision you’ll ever make. Just saying; please don’t be triggered.

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SalamanderSylph@reddit

In fairness, they never said it was their state pension that covered the rent. Relying on the state pension for a comfortable retirement is foolish, but there is no implication that this is what they are doing.

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Railuki@reddit

I think a lot of people really can’t afford to buy and have no choice but to rent because it’s that or the street. Despite the fact that mortgages are cheaper than rent a lot of the time, lots of people don’t earn enough above minimum wage to be offered a loan, and they aren’t able to save efficiently for a better down payment because they aren’t able to after spending so much on rent in the mean time.

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cherrylippz@reddit

This. I earn above minimum wage, but live in an expensive area and have little left to save. I could move up north, but then I’d be away from my family and friends. It’s a real bind.

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Fickle_Hope2574@reddit

I can't afford a mortgage so I'm forced to rent, I worry about my future every day.

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cherrylippz@reddit

Same. I earn a decent enough wage, but live in Greater London and have no family inheritance or family who I can or could have lived with. Rent costs so much I’ll probably never be able to save enough for a deposit 🤷‍♀️

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rFAXbc@reddit

This is what is wrong with this country though because, if you can afford to pay rent then I guarantee you could afford the payments on a mortgage. It's saving for the deposit which is the hard part

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lilleralleh@reddit

Same. I’m on benefits due to long term illness with no solutions. Fucking terrified and pretty powerless to do anything about it- just hoping I die before I have to worry about it

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Fluid_Environment_40@reddit

Me too. I do love the house Ive been renting for the last 4 years, more than anywhere Ive lived before. I would never be able to afford a mortgage on a house this nice. Is it wrong to hope that i may get some security when Im old once parents pass on? Between my partner and I there are 3 houses we may at least partly inherit. It may lend us a little help when we most need it

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Fickle_Hope2574@reddit

I wouldn't say it's wrong it's what most parents want to do anyway, better to go to their kids than be sold to pay for funeral costs or debts or just go to the government. I've rented here for 13 years now, mostly because it's close to my parents who are disabled so makes it very handy when one of them inevitably falls over. I probably could have gotten a mortgage when I first moved out but I didn't even know what such a thing was I thought you either rent or buy a house outright

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New_Line4049@reddit

I do hope to buy someday, however that seems an unrealistic dream in the current market. As a backup plan if Im unable to buy Im putting away a decent amount into pension savings. The plan will basically be to move to a cheap area, maybe North England, maybe Scotland, maybe rural Wales, or anywhere with relatively cheap rents. From there keep renting for as long as my pension allows, after that I guess Ill be reliant on social care.

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TopBodger91@reddit

I suspect many will plan to work until they can't physically work or are thrown on the scrap heap by employers... At that point, because they have no money or assets, they will be eligible for benefits and be supported by the state financially until they die. That... Or maybe they'll inherit a property from their parents??

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RPG_Rob@reddit

I don't choose to rent. I have to rent. Apparently I can't afford to pay a £500/month mortgage, which is why I have to pay £850/month rent.

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No-Structure-8125@reddit (OP)

Then you weren't the target audience for my question.

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Yippym@reddit

Do you honestly believe that everyone is going to be honest about why people are renting. Situation where people are not able to get mortgage approval is why people can't choose, it's easier to say I rather rent then explain why their credit rating is bad, or no credit history. Getting mortgage approval can be a real problem for many people, there is a scheme that you can rent the house for 20 years and be able to purchase the house for £1 with the loyalty scheme they accumulated. There is obviously a problem where people can afford rent and unable to get mortgage approval.

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

What scheme? In the UK? I rented for 16 years… i would be 4 years away 😳

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Yippym@reddit

Correction it's 25 years, I've seen new builds in Wolverhampton that was involved with this scheme. The scheme is called 'help to own', it's selected houses. https://help-to-own.com/

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

Omg this is amazing!!’n Tysm!! Wish i knew this 16 years ago! But only wolverhampton ?😭 Slightly south ill be jumping on it

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HighWaterSheriff@reddit

I’m single with no children and no want for them or even a relationship really, I had planned to rent indefinitely and worry about retirement come the time but tenancies became so cost ineffective and scarce I gave up and got a mortgage - it’s much cheaper than renting in my area. My mortgage is £700/month on a large three bedroom ground floor flat (required as my mum moved in with me for health reasons), I think I’d be at least £1200 in rent if I could even find the equivalent. Not a clue what to do with my assets when I die though, probably donate to charity if I don’t have a long-term partner.

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JimmyTheDevil@reddit

shotgun! bagsy! dibs! 🙋🏻‍♂️

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HighWaterSheriff@reddit

Yeah after writing that I kind of thought “wait someone’s now going to try to romance scam me” - at least you’re honest though! 😂

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

Asl 😅😅

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JimmyTheDevil@reddit

what kind of assets are we talking baby 😏

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bacon_cake@reddit

I came here to add the additional challenge of requiring people to answer without saying "I don't plan on living that long". It's one thing to say that in your twenties, but you won't be saying that when you're starting retirement in the face.

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selectusername2@reddit

Personally they way things are going, I'm not sure retiring will be something I get to do. The way the government is forever raising the age of retirement, taxing pensioners, and removing many of benefits that were for pensioners, will likely make it all the more difficult to be able to afford to retire. My dad worked all his life, and retired a few years ago. He was very heavily taxed on his pension pot when he had to take it out. And because he gets £6 a week more than the limit threshold for pension credit, he gets nothing. No help with winter heating, no pension credit - nothing. Yet people who have never worked a day have their pension sorted by the government and get pension credit. So, for me as a working mum with still minimum of 30 years to go, the ever rising age seems like an impossible milestone

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Infinite-Ad-8392@reddit

Can you explain a little more? How is he heavily taxed yet only £6 away from minimum Also what’s eligibility of this pension credit…. Mmm interesting

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MysoreMa@reddit

The thing is, you may get to an age at which you will not be physically (or mentally) capable of full time work. Retirement isn't always a funancial choice - you simply aren't able to do that grind anymore.

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caniuserealname@reddit

Many people in their 20s today may not ever reach a point where they can actually stare retirement in the face. Many people in their 20s today may well be working until the work kills them.

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StrangeRun5537@reddit

Won't be their work that kills them, bet you any money there's another pandemic or a war before then.

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caniuserealname@reddit

Don't need to be that dramatic. Summer and winter are killing more and more of us each year

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StrangeRun5537@reddit

Natural selection m8. Can't handle a bit of weather gtfo!

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masofon@reddit

Lol.. but there won't be jobs for them.

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caniuserealname@reddit

I mean, they'll likely be attempting to continue working in the same jobs they did before they hit retirement age. Job security in the UK is pretty good once you've been somewhere for a few years. Those that lose their jobs will likely either try and find a way onto disability benefits or jobseekers. No, the real problem is that it's going to create a job market with much less mobility, and therefore much less hiring. Making an already bad job market for young uns much, much worse. I'm sure jobs that are physically demanding will still have a fair amount of turnover though.

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Advanced-Fig6699@reddit

I suspect that’s the plan

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OldCantaloupe5219@reddit

But I have a condition so personally I really wont live that long lol

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DenseRequirements@reddit

They are generally the kind of people to keep working at retirement age so they don't really retire until they have to be phisically dependant on careres.

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Mr-Tourette@reddit

I can confirm this to be true..thankfully i finish my mortgage in 2 years but for the first time in my life thoughts of retirement are looming ..I thought Id never get old 😂 Enjoy your youth but plan for getting old If i knew then what I know now Id be retiring a lot more comfortably than what its going to be.

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Brizzledude65@reddit

You and me both. I'll (we'll) be ok, certainly won't starve (house paid for) but realistically if I hadn't spunked so much cash on boozing and motorbikes I'd be facing a more comfortable retirement. But I've really enjoyed my life so far and never really saw myself reaching old age, so on balance I have no real regrets.

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Mr-Tourette@reddit

Agreed..also spunked a lot of money on cars/motorbikes being a petrolhead and pissed a lot of money up the wall in my youth...don't regret anything, have had a lot of fun but wish Id been a little more thoughtfulful with putting a bit aside . I wont be desolate as I did finally start a workplace pension in my mid 40s so If i manage to make 67 there will be 2 small pots of money coming in..I just would have liked to go a bit earlier, especially with the age rising to 67

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disappointedinitall@reddit

Is euthanasia legal in the UK yet? Perhaps involuntary euthanasia may be an option available to local councils in the future, when they need to free up some housing spots.

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k8s-problem-solved@reddit

So I had that attitude in my late 20s early 30s. Spend Spend, fuck it, might never see it, it's the journey not the destination Had family and started planning for them more than myself & in a decent position now in 5-10 years will be able to retire on 100k a year that'll last me until I'm about 80. Will I hit that number? Who the fuck knows , most likely no. I'm not planning for it any case - plan for spending to excess now, while you're alive, while shits guaranteed.

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sirfletchalot@reddit

in my case, the chance of me actually reaching retirement age IS slim. Everyone in my family croaks it at the latest, mid 60s, with my dad passing at 66, and my mum passed at 59, both from small cell lung cancer. I'm currently 46, with lifelong asthma, and just recently diagnosed with COPD. Retirement age is what now? around 70 for guys? thats another 24 years away, and my health is already not fantastic, so with that, and my family's terrible life expectancy, it will take a small miracle for me to see retirement. My best hope now is to be declared unfit for work, so I can enjoy my life, but the chances of that happening are even less than the chances of me reaching the retirement age!

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

That sounds like the medical history of a family of smokers, so its not fate.

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sirfletchalot@reddit

ive never smoked in my life, but my parents did, and sadly in the house heavily, when I was younger

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Incredibly rare to have COPD in your forties as a non smoker, even with passive smoking.

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sirfletchalot@reddit

well here i am. like I said, life long asthmatic, heavy smokers for parents, so the house i lived in during childhood was a constant haze of tobacco smoke. Was in and out of hospital as a child with chest infections, had pneumonia as a kid too. Then as a i got into my late teens, I worked as a barman in the local boozer, way back before the smoking ban, so lived and worked in that constant haze of smoke. The years took their toll i guess. And its not that rare tbh, just go take a look at the COPD sub, theres often people in their 30s and even 20s who have been diagnosed who have never smoked. It does happen unfortunately

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Select_Yoghurt_1138@reddit

Honestly this is my thing I've had to come to terms with. I'm 30. I never expected to see past 23 after having pneumonia. I went on a 3-4 year "fuck it I'll die anyway" spree, of spending stupid amounts, acquiring debt and really not giving a crap at all. Now it turns out, I didn't die anyway. Gotta remember the average age of death is late 70s now, that means the people dying before 50/60 are very far and few between, barely any. I still struggle with it, but the fact is regardless of what health conditions you'll get in your life, chances are it's a simple pill to fix and you'll be on your way. So most of us thinking we won't see retirement age are just wrong.

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CriticalCentimeter@reddit

I had around 10 people id call good friends 10 years ago. Due to deaths, Im down to 6. Im 52. More die early than you think.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

> More die early than you think. That’s not true. I think that the number of people who die in the UK who are under 60 is about 4% of the population. This is in line with the UK Office of National Statistics data. It’s very important to not confuse personal anecdotes with national data.

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Kingshaun2k@reddit

1 in 5 men die before they reach 65

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CriticalCentimeter@reddit

4% of the population is a significant number

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Conscious-Country-64@reddit

The % of deaths that are under 60 does not tell you the probability of dying before 60.

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Misfire6@reddit

It's 10% for men and 6% for women.

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mrbullettuk@reddit

We can all do anec-data. I’m Mid 50’s and I’ve only lost one friend (cancer) and that was nearly 20 years ago. My dad died at 78 as did his dad. I’m considerably fitter and active in my 50s than they were.

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ColonelWeird100@reddit

Ever consider you’ve been lucky so far? Genuine question. This is not most people’s experience by their mid 50’s.

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eXisstenZ@reddit

My dad was very fit at 60. Cancer diagnosed, dead within 6 months. Not trying to be overly pessimistic, but don’t take it too much for granted that you’ll live as long or longer than your dad/grandad

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ColonelWeird100@reddit

Lucky you.

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ourmanflint27@reddit

The snipper years, was recently at 2 funerals in 6 months, both just under 50. Originally question....just got divorced. I took a small payout from the ex and she kept the apartment (she can't sell or i get a better cut and it goes to the kids). I have no private pension, no family wealth, no asset. I earn decent money and my rent is cheaper than looking at a new mortgage / property. So looking forward to helping my kids through university, will visit some friend in Oz & NZ and travel a bit more and maybe move and live around the EU, need to keep my tax contributions here to keep my Spanish State pension. I am a hedonist and still enjoy the party and that is my exit plan, 1 way ticket to some place that has high quality "gear" and go out on my own terms, high as fuck. With luck i have another 18 years working lol and maybe 5 years in Nepal or India getting locked before checking out. Let's see the reality, and if that plans out. But at 50 i do not want to own another property, f that!!

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

I'm 38. Left school 20 years ago, five of my classmates have died.

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ColonelWeird100@reddit

Sadly I can confirm.

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

That average age of death has an overrepresentation of boomers and an underrepresentation of the younger generations. I don't think we will see age expectancy rise much more, considering lifestyle factors of the younger generations (drug use, obesity, stress and so on). My four grandparents all made it past 90, one even became a centenarian. In my and my husbands' parents' generation, of a cohort of 18 aunts and uncles including our set of four parents, so far only 8 are still alive and have made it anywhere near 80. I'm 50 this year and have a hit one of the ageing walls, were everything seems to go wrong at once. Even if it levels out, I think I can kiss my 90th birthday goodbye. Another ageing wall may see me wave farewell to my 80es.

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DeemonPankaik@reddit

Lol, boomers who were chugging cigarettes for lung exercise are now living well into their 80's - on average. There's no reason to believe that life expectancy won't continue to rise. Medicine is still advancing. Unless microplastics give us all megacancer.

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

Life expectancy stagnation is already a thing: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/18/european-countries-experience-life-expectancy-slowdown-research-shows > The average annual growth in life expectancy across the continent fell from 0.23 years between 1990 and 2011 to 0.15 years between 2011 and 2019, according to research published in the Lancet Public Health journal. Of the 20 countries studied, every one apart from Norway saw life expectancy growth fall.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Younger generations are far less likely to smoke or drink to excess and are more likely to be overly anxious about their health than cavalier. What we might start to see is the impact of our polluted environment, poor air quality, microplastics etc.

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W51976@reddit

I’m 49, and I always see myself living until 90 or potentially 100. Yes, it could all end in my 50s, with an accident or some illness, but, you have to always think longterm. My biggest fear is being 80, and being homeless. That’s why I’m saving some money aside, until I reach my mid to late 60s, then will work just 1-2 days a week.

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Important-Manager672@reddit

Think it's up in the 80s now

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Gluecagone@reddit

Yeah I know one or two people with this mindset. They also don't bother doing things now (such as being actve, strength training, basic looking after themselves) that will increase their chances of ageing well. Their reason being "they don't plan to live that long". Unfortunately for them unless they take matters into their own hands or have some sort of accident/fatal health issue, they probably will live pretty long lives but their quality of life will be shite. Also, that level of shittiness will start sooner rather than later.

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OldLondon@reddit

This ! My mum is 85 and looks like she’s 100+, I know a 90 year old who looks like he’s in his 70s. Guess which one exercises and which one does f all.

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Lessarocks@reddit

Ha yes. I’m in my sixties now and the fifties are the scary time for many of these people. I’ve lost count of the number of people I know who had that attitude and then they had a health scare. For most, that was enough to start them exercising and dieting with a will that I do t think even they knew they had. There’s nothing like the possibility of dying for a bit of self reflection. YOLO doesn’t usually win out.

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kassa1989@reddit

God, my mum says that and she's about to turn 60. And I can see her old age coming at me like a steam a train and I'm chained to the tracks and I'm pleading with her to put the brakes on and she's like 'the train won't exist soon son'.....

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ClarifyingMe@reddit

I'll just go to Switzerland in that case.

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kleinerGummiflummi@reddit

and how do you plan on paying for house repairs when you retire? living is expensive either way

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throwaway_ArBe@reddit

I don't have a plan. I rent because I have to and this isn't going to change.

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SavageRabbitX@reddit

There are lot of senior only rentals in the south, usually its whole estates built around homes

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SillyDeersFloppyEars@reddit

I own my own home and have moved three times in the last five years. I also pay for repairs with the money I'm not spunking up the wall renting a house I'll never own a single brick of. I know that the housing ladder is borderline impossible to get on nowadays, but I never understood these two arguments.

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joeblrock@reddit

"Choose" 😂

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Far-Hospital-9961@reddit

OP has made it clear that they are specifically asking those who “choose” to rent instead of buy, as opposed to those who can’t afford a mortgage.

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No-Structure-8125@reddit (OP)

Yes, some people choose to rent even though they could afford to buy a property. I'm not sure why that's funny?

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SYSTEM-J@reddit

Some people do, but the majority of people who attack home ownership and claim renting is better are people who can't afford to buy. It's what the kids today refer to as "copium".

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AggressiveTooth1971@reddit

I know of i think 7 people who choose to rent, admittedly a small pool, all have 2+ houses they own/pay a mortgage on and rent out. I guess when you own property you don't live in, not having to worry about maintenence where you live is great. Personally I've waited 4 months for a landlord to replace an oven in a fully furnished property before, so doing my own maintenance doesn't seem so bad.

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ChessPianist2677@reddit

it's extremely common to choose to rent in Germany and many other countries, clearly seeing this as a no brainer choice is misinformed

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AdrianFish@reddit

Yeah, loads of people have no choice but to rent because they can’t get on the property ladder! Weirdly phrased question tbh.

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5ubredhit@reddit

It’s not, the question isn’t aimed at the people who have no choice. It even says “To be clear, I'm just talking about people who actively choose to rent instead of buy, not people who don't have any choice but to rent.”

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ChickenTikkaMasalla_@reddit

Well then the question isn’t for those people is it you fucking waste of organs

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WGSMA@reddit

I’m a renter by choice, what of it?

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

I'm a renter. I invest the money that I save from renting rather than locking myself in a mortgage + bills etc. The invested money gives me arguably a much better return than what a house would, where the appreciation is mostly given by the depreciating nature of the fiat currency. The idea is to be wealthy enough by retirement age to not have this problem. But purchasing could be an option too down the line, with a massive deposit and minimised years of mortgage, if any. A bit ambitious but fuck it, I need to work 4 times more compared to previous generations for the same property, I don't like this.

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DramaticJackfruit747@reddit

This is my philosophy too. I have moved around too much so far to buy a place but I’m very diligent at investing and have taken the time to learn how to invest well and have been lucky enough to make some strong returns. I may buy in the future but it’s not the be all and end all for me

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Nikotelec@reddit

>I invest the money that I save from renting rather than locking myself in a mortgage Does this work out? When I went from renting to owning my disposable income went through the roof. I guess there's local market conditions etc to factor in, but if this you've got this working to your advantage then fair play.

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Larnak1@reddit

Many people forget to take in maintenance cost in that comparison. When you buy, mortgage is not the only cost - among various smaller things such as insurance, the average annual maintenance cost is estimated at about 1.5% of the property's value, higher for older houses - if you factor that in, it easily increases your monthly costs by about 30%. And in that comparison, you need to be seriously unlucky to have rents still come out at top, at least with current interest rates. The problem is, most people don't budget that way, so they don't feel the costs monthly. Instead, having to replace or renovate various parts is taken as emergency or extraordinary, while it is a totally expected part of owning a house.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

Uhm my rent (inclusive of all bills) is only 17% of my monthly salary, and I'm just under £50k a year.. I think any reasonable property would have a much larger overall cost than that when broken monthly. BUT, it's a shared house, so here is the catch I suppose. As someone rightfully said, it's more likely to work only in such cases. However, on my salary I am 'given the choice' between renting + investing vs buying + mortgage. And I picked the former because I do not have a need for the latter just yet. Perhaps when I'll find a partner, or decide confidently that I'd like to live in the UK, I will.. But in comparison, many colleagues of mine jumped at the property market as soon as they could almost out of perceived FOMO, as the idea of renting = money down the toilet is very prevalent in them. Perhaps to many it's either rent a house or buy a house - in which case the latter could be better, dunno. To each their needs.

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

Investments go down too - also take into a account a mortgage might well be cheaper monthly than your current rent and it will certainly go down over the years.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

So does property value though, my colleagues in Aberdeen sold after 20 years - at a loss.. as an example. Yet property is often portrayed as the ultimate safe asset. The mortgage itself may as well be cheaper, but what about all the other costs? I ran some numbers over a long term scenario and it certainly didn't look good with today's prices and costs.

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FPS_Scotland@reddit

Aberdeen's housing market is entirely reliant on what the oil and gas industry is doing. It's an outlier and shouldn't really be counted when discussing normal housing market things.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

Ah yes fair point. Even so though, the average yearly appreciation of property in the past 20 years has been what, 3%, down to 1% when inflation adjusted? That of established equity funds has been between 2% and 6% yearly. Investment wise, buying a house is not the winning strategy unless you're in a lucky region.. it should be bought as part of other needs that it satisfies (security, kids etc). So investing until those needs come around is not a bad idea imo.

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Brizzledude65@reddit

Lucky region - yes indeed, as in my experience. House bought for £134k in 2002, £90k extension in 2012. House now worth £800k. Worked incredibly well for me (I live in a property hotspot, it's been the case for 20 years plus) but as your example illustrates that is far from the case in other areas of the UK.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

Wow that's amazing! Do you ever contemplate selling? In fear of a market crash or such - or you don't really see it as a financial investment?

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Brizzledude65@reddit

I've always seen it as a place for me and my family to live - the increase in value is just a (absolutely massive) bonus. My wife has some health issues so I / we are starting to think selling up and downsizing is the way forward as we could pretty much retire now if we did. Only issue being our oldest and partner live with us while saving to (hopefully) buy somewhere local. So the pleasure I take from my luck is massively tempered by the fact that the consequence is that my adult kids, and their generation, are pretty screwed. Overall I'd far rather have a house worth far less with the subsequent opportunity for young people to have the option to buy a house if they chose to do so.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

That's commendable, thank you.

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gregysuper@reddit

But mortgages are leveraged investments. With 20k, you can invest 100k in a house for example, making your 1% return an effective 5% on your original capital. The rest of the installments would be paid anyway in the form of rent, so I wouldn't consider these in the calculation.

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summers_tilly@reddit

My sister and BIL are doing a similar thing. They sold their house when prices surged post-lockdown. They were very lucky to have a friend with a rental property who has kept rent stable because his main concern is the house is maintained and tenants don't bother him. They put the proceeds of their house sale in the market and have made massive gains since. They also sold just before the interest rates shot up so missed out on that drama. They would be in a worse financial position if they had stayed in the house they owned. Now with the money they've invested they could most likely buy a similar property outright.

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DramaticJackfruit747@reddit

I have rented because I have moved around a lot and currently live overseas. We share with family so our rent is split between 4 and costs me £110 sterling equivalent for a big house and pool and is a lot cheaper than a mortgage on the equivalent property (I’m in Brisbane currently). I religiously put money into stocks, etfs and crypto on a monthly basis and have done for 6 years now and my investments have done very well plus I have an above average super balance. I will move back to the UK in a year or two and may buy once I settle in one place, but otherwise I just plan to live off my investments and super (pension) when I’m old, I would be happy enough just in a holiday park or renting a small place so I think I’ll be fine 😊

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TheFutureIsAFriend@reddit

Ownership: property taxes,insurance, upkeep, maintenance, gentrification, costs of selling, assessment, utilities Renting: rent, renters insurance, some utilities,posssible rent increase, possible ownership change. No brainer. Don't live beyond your means; don't rest on optimism or "profit."

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pibandpob@reddit

Once the lump sum stamp duty is paid (or not, depending on house price/buyer status), property taxes aren't a thing in the UK. I don't know what you mean by 'assessment'? Renters insurance isn't a thing, either. Home owners will have both buildings and contents insurance, and renters only need contents. You don't have to have insurance, but you'd be daft not to, and it's not overly expensive.

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TheFutureIsAFriend@reddit

Here you pay property tax yearly. If you make an improvement or addition to your home, it has to be reassessed, and that in turn raises home insurance cost and taxes.

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pibandpob@reddit

We have council tax (which you could pay yearly, but usually gets paid monthly) which is banded by property values in the 90s, so doesn't change if you improve your home. Council tax is paid by renters and homeowners alike, however.

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intelligentbug6969@reddit

Their pension will pay for rent

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CaterpillarLoud8071@reddit

Anyone who rented rather than buying 10+ years ago clearly made a poor decision because of the massive growth in house prices. But without price rises, the main value of buying is stability - there's not much difference between renting and buying costs. At current mortgage rates, a £200k mortgage would incur £150k in interest over 30 years. If you also spent £100k on renovation and maintenance in that time, that's £700 a month in costs - close enough to rental value. If you have to opt for a longer mortgage, you might actually lose money compared to renting. And God forbid the government actually fix planning policy and house prices go down. So for people who move around frequently, saving their money and putting it into investments may well be a better course of action for them. Most first time buyers are also very limited in options at their price range and can rent a much better place than they can buy.

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Tricky-Reporter-5246@reddit

One, and merely one, run of bad luck could result in your house, that you 'own', could be taken off you. Renting has its positives.

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Apprehensive_Look346@reddit

Rent + invest rather than spend it all

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GallusRedhead@reddit

You literally said: “This applies to everyone; disabled, lacking in its caring responsibilities or otherwise. Post-Covid, so many jobs now allow you to work remotely/from home, so the job market has opened up considerably.” If you hadn’t, I’d agree with you. I’ve been to uni myself 4 times over the years. But my circumstances allowed for that and recognising that privilege is important. Ignoring it is what makes you sound naive/condescending.

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Intrepid_Cookie5466@reddit

Hope for the collapse of society and a mad max style future. Think I’d fare pretty well in that scenario to be honest

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StrangeRun5537@reddit

Can't be any worse than trying to survive in this system lol. Plus no road tax or insurance needed!

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Impressive-Type3250@reddit

im keen to know as well. if half your pension is going on rent (rent might be astronomically expensive by then as well) how are you going to sustain yourself for the remaining years you have. genuinely curious.

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mamamuse71@reddit

As someone who will never be in a position to buy or even save much for retirement I’m genuinely curious too and lose sleep over it. Having roommates seems the only way.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

But why will you “never be in a position to buy”? Go to college and develop an in-demand skill and you’ll soon boost your employability and remuneration. That’s how it works and that how those people who do earn money have gamed the system. This applies to everyone; disabled, lacking in its caring responsibilities or otherwise. Post-Covid, so many jobs now allow you to work remotely/from home, so the job market has opened up considerably.

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mamamuse71@reddit

50s, single parent, medical debt, highly qualified and decent salary - living paycheck to paycheck. Reality for many and impossible to get promoted or a new career due to ageism.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

I have genuine sympathy for your history, but I must vehemently disagree with your summary. NEVER put your age on your CV.

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mamamuse71@reddit

I don’t. But my years of experience and meeting me make it apparent. Believe me I’ve applied and interviewed for multiple jobs - in my 40s I was offered every job I applied for. That changed in my 50s and is experience of every woman I talk to.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

As well as not putting your age on your CV, you should also delete your work history from 30 years ago; it won’t help you in your 2025 job search. Sorry if I appear hard work, but you need to play the game. Make your CV look like you’re 40 (without lying). (…and don’t give up)

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mamamuse71@reddit

I do that please stop condescending me everyone. Not everyone is in a position in this lifetime to own a home. That’s just reality.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

Nobody is condescending; we’re just respectfully giving our view on a topic. Of course not everyone is in a position to own a home; nobody is saying that. However, there are many things that are within everybody’s gift to change, and therefore to increase their chances of home ownership. It’s not easy; in fact it’s hard, but regardless it remains true. For those not blessed with rich parents or inheritance, it all comes down to developing employable skills, and subsequently marketing them. That’s how you give yourself a chance of winning.

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GallusRedhead@reddit

I love your enthusiasm and optimism, but it’s a tad naive. Not everyone can ‘upskill’ themselves into a great job. My dad is currently looking for work but is 63 and can only find agency work. He’s autistic which really does not help with interviews (agency work is better as the agency get to know him and recommend him rather than him having to perform in an interview). He has failed to get jobs in Scotland (where we live) as a building surveyor probably due to a mix of his autism meaning he’s not brilliant at interviews and just plain ageism- he’s been told he’s ’over qualified’ for a number of jobs, but he can’t do anything about his years of experience. He has done lots of agency work in England instead, moving away to work and visiting at the weekends. But in England, recent changes to the regulation of building surveyors mean he would have to go through intense and vigorous training/assessment and pay for that assessment and membership of a professional body. Despite having 40years experience in the industry, he can no longer work there without paying upwards of £2.5k. All to work for another 5 years or so. My mum has a brain injury and can no longer work because of it. They cannot simply adjust their CVs and go to college and get something better. I could, as a 36 year old with no health issues. But they couldn’t. Arguing that ‘anyone’ can improve their job/salary situation is either naive or condescending, because it shows you don’t really understand the complexities of people’s lives.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

I have never said “anyone or everyone”, but it’s very important that people don’t sit on Reddit all day, read all the doom and gloom on here, and therefore get themselves into an “it’s all shit and I have no hope” doom spiral. Not everyone can snap themselves out of their rut, but it is very important that people understand that there may be a may to do it. It spite of many, many things being frankly shite in the UK today, everyone should take hope in the fact that we do live in a country that does provide opportunities, understanding that it’s a very competitive market, but there are pathways to a better life. Unless someone has the “bank of mum and dad” or “knows someone”, then the way to approach it is through personal development. That could be formal qualifications (night-school, distance learning etc), or it could be just spending some of your free time in the early morning or evening to teach yourself something new and relevant. This isn’t “naive” in the least, it’s a practical approach to self-improvement, and levels-up someone’s chances of being successful at their chosen career, and regardless of whatever hurdles life has thrown in the way. One thing to note is that this is an important cultural facet in many societies around the world, so people in the UK need to wise up that it’s a global market, and its competitive out there. It’s brutal, it’s tough, it’s hard, it might not be fair, but that’s no reason not to have hope.

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mamamuse71@reddit

I have a masters degree and a great job with best salary I can ever get in my field. Doesn’t mean I have any money.

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ZekkPacus@reddit

It's not exactly hard to work out how old someone is from their CV.

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GallusRedhead@reddit

I was thinking this. I re-wrote my dad’s CV for him and the institution he got his qualifications at doesn’t exist anymore. 😅 Wouldn’t be difficult to twig he got them in the 90s!

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

It should be impossible to tell. If it is, then you’re doing it wrong. Play the game.

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ZekkPacus@reddit

Ok, how exactly do I hide my age but still list my qualifications and highlight my experience?

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

Don’t state the year you obtained your qualifications. You don’t need to list, in detail, every job you’ve had since school.

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mamamuse71@reddit

And then you interview and it’s obvious. Be real.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

OK. I tried. Genuinely, the best of luck to you.

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diddygem@reddit

I’m genuinely curious how you have medical debt in the UK, when healthcare is one of the few things that is free.

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Intelligent-Bass9914@reddit

Not all healthcare is equal. If you need physio for example, you might only get a certain amount of sessions while you really need twice as much. Or if there’s a waiting list for an operation but the pain and suffering is more unbearable, one might have to go to a private doctor. The NHS has lost its status as good healthcare to anyone who has gone private. It’s penny pinching and quick turnovers just so the government can claim that technically we still provide high quality medical services for minimal direct expense for the user.

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Accomplished-Art7737@reddit

You make it sound so easy. How do you expect people to support themselves while studying? How do they pay the bills. Even if courses can be done alongside work, how do you know they have the time or energy after work? Not everyone has the capacity to do this due to life circumstances.

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ThrobbingGristle@reddit

Of course it’s a choice. For some they may declare it’s “too hard”. For the thousands of others I’ve seen do remote study courses to level-up their skills and earning potential then it’s been an unmitigated success. It’s a choice. We’re all CEOs of our own career.

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mamamuse71@reddit

Good luck to you when you get laid off/ become disabled etc etc

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mireilledale@reddit

I’m as highly educated as you can be and have a very good job that pays reasonably well, but I will almost certainly never be in a position to buy. The part you’ve left out is how essential having a partner is to this equation. I’m single. I also spent the first ten years of my working life in my home country where the salaries weren’t so low relative to housing prices and where being single wasn’t a barrier to home ownership.

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Trace6x@reddit

Having done a bit of research on investing I don't think you'll 'never be in a position to buy'. If you're young and start early enough you can have enough money by the time you reach retirement

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Mortgage lenders won't lend to you at 65 though

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Fine_Appointment4908@reddit

You can finance some of it with equity release. Probably around 35% of it. You'd need the other 65% as cash though.

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Equity release on what if you're not a homeowner?

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Tony-The-Heat@reddit

I think they mean lifetime leases. You get a discount on a house value (which at the top end does match with 35%) but then you end up paying the 35% and all interest accrued put of the estate when you pass. Terrible deal financially but if it's more important for you to live somewhere nice with no rent during retirement than it is to pass the money on it can be an option.

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Trace6x@reddit

Depending on when you start you could very likely have enough to outright buy a property

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peppermint_aero@reddit

Assuming house prices don't keep going up, and you're in a cheap part of the country

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Fickle_Hope2574@reddit

Maybe don't be so negative. Start investing, I use freeshare, even treasury bonds or a ISA virtually guarantee a percentage of profit. The sooner you start the sooner you can start saving.

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Trace6x@reddit

Exactly, £100 a month at an average 7% return rate is 260k in 40 years. Obviously we don't know what the prices of houses will be like by then but it's something

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Trace6x@reddit

Still doable, not saving anything because 'I'll never be able to afford a house anyway' is the real risky move.

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regprenticer@reddit

Seems unlikely if you're renting. Or if you do manage you're wildly overpaying rather than having taken A mortgage earlier in life.

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Trace6x@reddit

A few retired older people I've met are in council houses they've had for 50 odd years, the rent is affordable and they're second on the list behind single pregnant women to move if they have a problem (like the rent is too high). Also they basically don't do anything or have any other kind of expenses

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Impressive-Type3250@reddit

good thing there's options for people in that position right now. i just wonder how the market is going to be 30-50years from now. old people might no longer be the priority, might be more even more red tape to getting social housing, it may no longer be affordable for someone solely relying on pension and no other income like from inheritance, investments or properties etc. with the way things are going, i would be really worried to rely on social housing in my old age.

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GallusRedhead@reddit

I think if you’re currently in social housing then you will be ok. But getting it in future is going to become more and more difficult as no govt is willing to invest the requisite resources to build sufficiently.

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Trace6x@reddit

Oh yeah that's really more of an observation of today rather than in 50 years. God knows what things will be like then

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GoldiBlogs@reddit

Low income pensioners are entitled to housing benefit.

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Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit

Don’t spend all your salary every month and invest what you save in ISA accounts. Might give better profits than property

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Sithfish@reddit

It's what the OP said. Especially on Reddit in particular. People on social media are more aware than normies of how truly fucked the world is and genuinely don't expect to live that long.

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Wonderful_Barracuda1@reddit

It's only affordable to rent for your whole life if you're very rich. Rent prices will keep going up and you don't want to be stuck having to work into your 70s and 80s just to pay the rent. At least if you own it should be paid off by the time you retire.

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Think_Preference_611@reddit

How much do people think house repairs cost? Do they think you need a whole new roof every year or something? Most of the money people spend on their houses it's because they want to spend it, because it actually appreciates the house, like a whole new kitchen because there was nothing wrong with the old one but it just looked old. Buying is cheaper than renting on the long run. If you factor that you live for "free" once your mortgage is paid, then it's much cheaper.

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peppermint_aero@reddit

It's an interesting question; part of the problem is that there isn't nationally available data on the average cost of these things, but almost everybody knows somebody who is "doing up" some part of their house so you have the impression that it is constant spending

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Think_Preference_611@reddit

The doing up isn't necessary maintenance though, it's upgrades. It can be a good investment too, if doing up the kitchen costs 10k and increases the market value of the house by 10k when you sell it then the new kitchen was actually free. People who think renting may be cheaper because you don't have to pay for repairs don't understand basic economics. People mostly rent property for profit, if the house's upkeep is higher than what they get from rent they're not making profit and the business isn't viable. A landlord with more than two brain cells would never choose to rent a property out for less than what it costs them - which includes the mortgage and any maintenance. Plus the landlord wants a profit margin on top, otherwise what's the point, so logically renting can never be cheaper than buying if done right (ie that would only happen if the landlord is running the business as a charity). *Short term*, renting might work out cheaper, and some people can leverage this to improve their financial situation. Some people claim renting is cheaper for them because they invest the money they would tie up in a downpayment, and their investments are so profitable that they generate more interest than the difference between rent and mortgage payments and the gains in equity value - these people are an extremely small minority and unless you already know how to invest your money in such a profitable way you should really not try to do what they do, and even in their case I'm not sure they've taken into account that if they never buy a house they will have to keep paying rent until the day the die, where as a bouse the bought would eventually be paid for which would greatly shift the calculations in favour of buying when you add it all up to include the years when you're not paying for a mortgage any more but would still have to continue with rent payments.

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Away-Organization630@reddit

I’m so confuse how this a uk thread and people are saving renting. My mortgage is £550 but to rent my house it would cost about £1100-£1200, in what world are people saying renting cheaper? Unless you’re renting from the council in which case it’s not a ton different or a shared house how are people concluding this?

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sunlitupland5@reddit

I do have 1 relative who rents, he likes the (big, old ) house but doesn't want to deal with maintenance and wants options on moving area. He's got a stack of cash invested if things should change.

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mrggy@reddit

I think the key here is how we expect rents to behave in the future and how we view the security of tenancies. If we expect rents to remain low and stable and tenecies to be secure (as was the case for most of the 20th century), then renting can make a lot of sense. Your rent is a stable cost each month (similar to a mortgage), plus you don't have to deal with repairs. If we expect rents to consistently and rapidly rise and tenencies to be unstable (as has been the case in recent years), then renting makes no sense. You have very little stability and your costs are always rising Basically, renting is sustainable because our rental system is broken, not because renting has to inherently be unsustainable

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GallusRedhead@reddit

Exactly. Previous generations had significantly more sustainable and affordable rental options. In the 70s, 64% of homes in Scotland were rented and 42% were social rent. That’s dropped to 37% overall and 23% social rent by 2018. It’s similar in the rest of the Uk, but Scotland has the worst drop, having had the highest levels of social housing in the first place. 13 of Scotland’s councils have declared housing emergencies, meaning they cannot meet their legal obligations to house homeless people in their area. The obsession with homeownership also means so many people see social renting as a tenure of ‘last resort’ so there’s no impetus to invest in it nationally. It’s quite depressing really.

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Hame_Impala@reddit

As renters get older I imagine we'll see more political pressure on governments to act and reform the system so it works. The problem right now is they're still typically incentivised to listen to older homeowners, and most older politicians will buy/be surrounded by friends who buy. That'll change as we see more and more 40-somethings in nominally professional jobs unable to buy.

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noobducky-9@reddit

I think people seem to forgot that buying houses have literally only been possible the past 80 or so years. Like prewar you rented, Victorian times the company you worked for owned your house and took it out of your wages. Tutor times you was a serf and your lord owned the lands you worked. We’re incredibly lucky to live in a time our wages allow most people to buy some form of land.

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InternetofTings@reddit

I wouldn't say we are lucky just because we can 'buy' land on our wages, doing that usually takes most people majority of their adult lifetimes to achieve, lucky would be those who get land/property passed down to them. Lucky in the past would be those went America and got free land (and lots of it) just by sticking your flag into the ground.

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noobducky-9@reddit

You’re absolutely not wrong. Although the people who got “free” land weren’t the nicest to the natives.

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DenseRequirements@reddit

They rent their care home instead

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InternetofTings@reddit

I'm 43 and mortgage free (detatched bungalow), i stayed longer than i should have living with parents to save/invest as i hated the feeling owing bank money (mortgage) or paying dead end money out renting. I can't believe so many in this thread are content doing that, i understand its hard to own your own home, but you have got to have some kind of have plan surely to get on the property ladder? I would hate the feeling knowing that you work hard on your home to have a nice home, paying the same rent as someone with a mortgage, but house is not fully yours and you are limited to what you can do with the property and landlord may give you 1 to 2 months notice some point in the future and could be homeless in that short space of time, that would drive me daft!

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BrummbarKT@reddit

Plan A is either move to my parents' house or sell it to buy one outright Plan B if we manage to mess up handing it over well ahead of any potential care costs, would be social housing Plan C is well... A UK version of a Remington retirement, or move abroad with whatever savings I have

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LFC90cat@reddit

Go into council housed over 65+ residence, pension and pension credit covers that

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Grillmyribs@reddit

I've been with my wife 20 years, we're just about to pay our mortgage off. Her sister has always rented, she's a bit older than us and nearly 60, we're sitting on a 350k house that's paid for. She's paying £12,000 pa rent and owns nothing. How can anyone say renting is better?????

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Larnak1@reddit

It's not better, but it can be roughly equal if done correctly. You will pay about 1.5% of your properties value on maintenance a year on average - obviously less if you do a lot yourself, but there's also value in that. If you take that into account, monthly rent payments are quite a bit lower than buying costs. If that difference and the deposit that was not used to buy a house is invested smartly, it will grow to roughly the same size as your house is worth now. The problem is: If her sister didn't do that, and just spent the money instead, she will obviously be worse off.

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Grillmyribs@reddit

Absolute nonsense, I've been a home owner for 30 years inc 3 x btl properties you do not spend anything like that on maintenance. That would be 5k a year on my own home! I'm just selling a btl and I've spent 4k on it in 16 years, Inc a new gas combi boiler. Rent always goes up and never ends, a mortgage always reduces Vs the value of your property then ends and you own a home. Anyone who thinks renting a house or car (PCP) is a good idea are lining the pockets of other people.

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Larnak1@reddit

It's obviously including bigger long-term maintenance such as a new roof, new kitchens, new carpets and so on over a lifetime. And outside of that, there's always something to do with a house. It's not a number I made up, it's a finding research comes up with time and time again.

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Grillmyribs@reddit

I speak from experience not Google research. I'm 56 and retired with a nice stash in the bank, no rent, no mortgage and something to hand down to my daughter. I've made a lot of this from renting houses out!

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Diligent_Craft_1165@reddit

Not me but a client at work. He earns 300k a year and rents in central London. I know he’s got a maxed out pension and millions in investments. He keeps coming to us to help him buy but then puts it off. Some people who invested well could just rent forever or buy something outright in retirement. Most people will rely on government benefits

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

There is often a case where renting allows you access to areas in which you'd never be able to afford to buy.

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bubonichav@reddit

Why aren't they buying there when it's happy families age? It's not that expensive, under a million will get a 3 bed house.

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Vegetable-Anybody514@reddit

We’ve currently owned our own house for just over 3 years but we rented for 10+ years and both times the landlord was a nightmare, took months to fix anything and they didn’t wanna fork out the money when anything went wrong with it it or put any money into it. Renting is good if you are lucky enough to get a good landlord but we got fed up paying £500+ a month for a property that was falling apart the 2nd property we rented was riddled with mould and I’d a baby at the time and they would do absolutely nothing about it. As I said we bought over 3 years ago and we’re currently paying less for a mortgage per month than we were for rent and the rental properties were smaller. I’m from Northern Ireland and the housing prices where lower then, mortgage we are currently paying £374 a month for a 3 bed house with a front and back garden, driveway and garage, my rent for my last properly was £600 for a 2 bedroom pokey house with no front or back garden and no parking.

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AdsMamaWolf@reddit

Retire? The way the government keeps shifting the goal posts on retirement age I’m not gonna live long enough to retire. Even if that wasn’t the case because the elites have trashed the economy I can’t afford to buy even if I wanted to.

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No_Parsnip_1579@reddit

I think there might be some pride out there when people say that. I once met a friend who had a really well paid job, he was always saying 'why would he want to buy?' and that he didn't want the ball and chain of a mortgage. Once I got to know him better it transpired he was in tonnes of debt and had a terrible credit rating...

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peppermint_aero@reddit

You're right; a lot of it is performed rebellion or nihilism

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Ldawg03@reddit

I literally have no clue. I currently live with my legal guardian and (sometimes) I genuinely worry about what I might do if I have no one to help/look after me

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Beautiful_Bad333@reddit

Just did a quick compound calculator. I based it on my home - 3 bed semi with a mortgage of £1035pm on a 30 year term. What I want now. Comparing to a rental I have - 2 bed terraced rents out at £800pm. What I would probably need in retirement. If you were to invest that £235 difference per month at 5% return on investment - I assumed you’d get 8% but adjusting for 3% inflation. Would give you a pot at the end of 30 years of just under £200k. If you continued renting at today’s rates assuming they go up by inflation (which is already counted for) the you could rent for a further 20 years on that lot without any further fund growth. There are a hell of a lot of variables in that. Including the rent which would may increase by more than the inflation. Not allowing for time of reduced investment when rents rise, amongst a load of other variables. But it does put in to perspective how you could potentially rent into retirement years by just investing a little as apposed to ever owning property and having the burden of owning and having to repair/upkeep property. That doesn’t factor in gains from tax relief if it was put into a pension/Lisa bonuses. Along with also the fact that if you own your house when retired and you need a large cost repair - roof/boiler etc. If you were renting you could just move, it’s not your problem. If you own the you need to repair at your own cost. Young adults and kids are keen on investing nowadays. They have more and easier access to investment platforms and the capacity to understand it by learning through online tutorials on YouTube which didn’t seem to be as available to me in my young adults life, never mind when I was a teenager. The figures above I think are right. Like I said tonnes of variables some I’ve probably not even considered. But food for thought at least.

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glowingGrey@reddit

There's a massive massive miss in that calculation, in that it's not a £235 difference you can pay for 30 years; the difference gets smaller due to inflation on rent that's not on a mortgage. At 5% yearly increases, after 5 years the rent is the same as those mortgage costs. Another 5 years and the renter is paying £300 per month more. After 30 years the renter is paying £3457 per month whereas the owner's mortgage costs drop from the same £1035 per month they were paying 30 years ago to zero at the end of the term.

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Beautiful_Bad333@reddit

Oh yeah I get there are things I’ve missed but I do wonder how that compares to the cost of maintaining a house over that period and also home owning costs remortgage fees etc. So your mortgage may stay the same as long as you don’t have to lock in in a time of high interest but if you need a new boiler there’s £2k whereas a tenant wouldn’t be paying that, a new roof £10 - £20k? Also as rents increase also wages should increase, not just due to inflation but as people progress in their careers etc they will be able to afford to invest more, whereas a homeowner may upgrade their home, buying a bigger home at a higher rate than when initially getting on the ladder and sometimes extending their mortgage term too. If they don’t do this then there’s obviously a huge gain there but a lot of people do. I think there are probably pros and cons either way. I own my home and a few rentals too. This question has always intrigued me as to what tenants will do in retirement but I genuinely believe you could make it work either way. I know for a fact I had to keep my pension payments low/nonexistent for a good 10 years after the 2008 recession because of needing to pay mortgage costs because I was locked in at a high rate when interest rates where low. But in that time rents were really low so the benefit of investing the difference then would have been huge considering the growth in the markets from then to now. I think the last 5 years rents have boomed and I’ve, until recently, locked in really low interest rates for mortgages so it’s completely swinged in the opposite direction.

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Beneficial-Level-651@reddit

I’m not sure anyone with less than £10m is ‘choosing to rent’

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HairyMuffHunter@reddit

Why would anyone choose to rent if you could buy? Youre Just paying for someone else's mortgage.

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Larnak1@reddit

You're paying for a roof over your head and repairs / maintenance. I know some landlords are shitty with that, but that's the idea. It has worked well for me so far. Something breaks, I send a WhatsApp, a few days later it gets fixed. I don't need to think about it, I don't need to find / know tradespeople, I don't need to deal with paying them. Keeps my mental load low. But I mainly do it because I value the flexibility, as I work in a fundamentally unstable industry. If the cost difference are saved correctly, the overall outcome between renting and buying is very similar (property maintenance and opportunity cost of the deposit taken into account). In my previous flat I was considering to buy. After 4 years, the project failed, hundreds of people got laid off and I am happy that I didn't buy as I was free to move quickly.

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HairyMuffHunter@reddit

How often is something breaking?

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ToManyTabsOpen@reddit

I choose to rent, when I retire I'll choose to continue to rent or buy or choose to do something else entirely(travel). Renting has given me mobility and lifestyle. I've moved multiple times, taken opportunities others wouldn't have and saved enough I could be a cash buyer if I wanted. Had I bought early in my life I'd either have become a landlord in debt to the banks or paid out so much in solicitor fees and duty I'd be worse off.

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BLightyear67@reddit

Once you get into your fifties who wants to be paying rent (or a mortgage). Seems like a stressful position to put yourself into.

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

Who wants to deal with tradesmen when your roof needs replacing...

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

who wants to deal with landlords selling up and having to move every few years...

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

There are other forms of tenancy, and there are housing estates for rental managed by associations/councils.

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

and will they last the next 40 years?

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NaniFarRoad@reddit

They do in other parts of the world, weird how the laws that govern tenancies can't apply over here...

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yogurt_smasher@reddit

we can say that about a lot of things, that other parts of the world do things better than us, but the reality of the current situation is different. and even if the government miraculously decide to change the law, in 40 years will something change again? certainly only comes with owning your home

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Educational_Desk_214@reddit

I plan to just buy land and build a log cabin on it, im very skeptical on getting a mortgage due to wanting to live without as much liabilities as possible (im an austistic minimialist)

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fleurmadelaine@reddit

I know someone who moved to London for work. Her retired mother decided to follow her and rent through her retirement in London. Neither of them were financially savvy, had ever had well paid jobs, and my understanding was that the mother was on a very tight budget due to limited savings. Blows my mind how some people only think short term.

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SparklingWaterFall@reddit

I am not planning to live longer than 55-58 yo so that doesn't bother me

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h4baine@reddit

My in-laws are mostly retired but a good chunk of their net worth is in their house. The house they renovated to fit them perfectly. They will never leave that house despite that being the point at one time. They're not alone, I've seen a lot of people get stuck in that situation. Gotta live somewhere so even if they sell they need to buy something small at a much higher price than it was 10 years ago.

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corobo@reddit

Hwhat in the heck is a "retire"?

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GrandeTasse@reddit

What makes you think they'll ever be able to retire? One guy in our village has had to rent ever since his divorce. He's now 78 and still has to work.

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Independent-Bed-4644@reddit

My nan had 2 sisters, they are all dead now. But my nan was the only one who bought her home, whilst nan had a nice retirement, her sisters lived week to week in council flats. I can’t imagine it was pleasant for them in their senior years. In the end they all ended up in nursing homes, again nans sisters ended up in a cess pits of nursing homes that smelt like pee that the council paid for just the cheapest of cheap I suppose. Nan sold her home and spent her money living in a really nice nursing home it was like she had a apartment in there and her own kitchen and lounge, they had a communal lounge if she wanted to sit with others. Ok she didn’t leave anything at the end but no one wanted anything. It was just a much better way to end her days. But it was only possible because she bothered to buy and struggle to pay her mortgage earlier in her life.

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CalmStomach3@reddit

I've got a good pension, just can't afford to buy

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semaj420@reddit

i don't choose to rent. i have to.

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-fin_0@reddit

Most people just say that cause it's less embarassing than 'I can't afford a mortgage'.

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North_Weezy@reddit

Ive bought and sold 3 properties over the years. 2 of which were my home at the time and one was an investment property. Yes I did make some money from selling them but with all the headache in renovation costs, repairs, dealing with tenants, taxes etc i genuinely think unless you’re starting a family (and need the stability) you’re financially better off renting and investing in equities instead. Plus you have the flexibility to move easily and not worry about the responsibility of home ownership. I think too many people rush into buying property when they really don’t need to.

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doepfersdungeon@reddit

Their won't be retirement by the time we get there.

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ed_cnc@reddit

Housing benefit will pay the rent, in the same way that if you have no assets, the council will pay for your care in an old peoples home

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Technical_Ad4162@reddit

Magic money tree about to be mentioned again?

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Important-Manager672@reddit

It's not just about how long you live. If you get disabled and you need a stair lift or a special shower will your landlord let you put one in. Do you still want to be queuing up for showings on daft when you are 90?

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Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit

Well that also happens if you buy a top floor flat or a tiny house - you’d have to sell up which is harder than moving while renting. The problem is that if you’re disabled to the point you can’t work it’s harder to be accepted for private rent

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BrunoCavani@reddit

Why would a 90 year old rent something with stairs?

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Important-Manager672@reddit

Those were separate points. Say you're a 50 year old who has a stroke and needs to adjust their home as a result. Fine if you own it not if you're renting.

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BrunoCavani@reddit

50 year old me would look for better options while sleeping on a mattress in the lounge. I imagine the renting is more beneficial as now I can move closer to work or shops if needs be.

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Nice_Back_9977@reddit

Someone disabled by a stroke to the point of needing adaptations to their home will not be sleeping on a mattress on the floor, that's actually laughable. They will be in hospital not allowed home until its safe to do so.

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Milam1996@reddit

You’re going to sleep on the floor when you’ve had a stroke? If your house needs adapting because your stroke is that bad I can guarantee you’re not getting up off the floor.

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Important-Manager672@reddit

Will your landlord let you take out the bath and put in a wheel chair friendly shower?

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BrunoCavani@reddit

I’d shower at my local gym. Renting is way more flexible than buying.

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Important-Manager672@reddit

Lol 😂 recovering from a stroke that left you in a wheelchair, travelling down to your local gym to shower daily and sleeping in your lounge whilst you house hunt for a bungalow. I hope life is always good to you friend, it's clear you've no first hand experience of anyone dealing with a life altering event 😂

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BrunoCavani@reddit

My mum had a stroke actually but ok. And I would t be house hunting, my carer would. Cheers pal

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Important-Manager672@reddit

Your career will? Oh yeah you'll be busy down the gym showering alone 😂

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jakedorset@reddit

Do people realise the cost of private / micro carers? The ones that MIGHT look for housing or take you out in the car for a trip once a week etc. Because state funded ones or agency certainly won’t be doing house hunting for you - and you’d be lucky if the council bothered urgently in a lot of cases. You’ll be lucky to get away with £20 often with 1 hour minimum slots, (say three times a day for getting up & wash, toilet and main meal, putting to bed) so £420 a week - and they won’t be house hunting during those slots, there won’t be time. But of course you might get attendance allowance at the higher £110.40 pw and other allowances, depends on your circumstances. Due to a shortage of carers in our area we only this year had no alternative but to pay £27 ph, and we were thankful the carer was reliable. A relative is the most realistic choice doing the house hunting for you. Plan for your old age - it can be brutal - and by the time you’ve worked out how to properly use/game the system you’ll have spend your savings or simply have died, and your relatives will be so busy helping you adapt to your new normal they’ll be too exhausted to do much more.

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Enough-Equivalent968@reddit

Lack of choice I’d imagine

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Fickle_Hope2574@reddit

Disabled here, luckily my landlord was happy for me to have the bathroom converted to a shower room as long as I planned on living here for the next 2 plus years. Just something that might be helpful for others, guarantee you'll be staying somewhere for a period and the landlord might be more amicable.

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Agnesperdita@reddit

My long-retired in-laws have gone from owning to renting in sheltered accommodation. Their combined pensions cover the high rent (1800/month, including heating and a 3-course meal every day). They are lucky to have the proceeds of the sale of their bungalow safe in a high-interest account, which we regard as their insurance policy for when one of them dies and the pension income no longer covers their rent. But if they didn’t have this lump sum, the survivor would be eligible for state benefits which would top up their pension and ensure their rent and basic living expenses were met. It wouldn’t be a luxurious lifestyle, but it would be sustainable.

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Willing_Coconut4364@reddit

"choose" to rent. Lol. I think you'd find most people don't have the choice and retirement is going to suck.

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PatserGrey@reddit

I would hope they have a proper focus on their retirement savings and pension from the outset. Reality is, most do not and this is just another timebomb that lays ahead in our not too distant future.

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

Investments, pensions, mortgages - were they part of the curriculum? Not suggesting it's the lack of education as we should all carry out some due diligence but it certainly helps.

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Trace6x@reddit

I actually cannot belive these sorts of things were never taught in school

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Traditional-Idea-39@reddit

the vast majority of people who say this would not have given a single fuck (at the time) if this was taught.

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pibandpob@reddit

100%. Lots of the things people harp on about not being taught in schools actually ARE taught - they just don't remember, because they didn't give a shit as a teenager.

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WGSMA@reddit

You can self teach all that in a long afternoon

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

We were taught "budgeting" in Sixth Form PSE. "Budgeting" basically meant get your food from the UN and don't spend any money ever.

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treecreaper@reddit

My situation may be different, but for the time being my investments return more than my rent, so in theory I have somewhere to live for free. Whenever I do the maths of buying a house, I get more for my money renting than taking out a mortgage (London), approx 30% cheaper. I have owned houses (one at a time) in the past, and the stress of things going wrong and having to sort out fixes are currently outweighed by not having to worry about any of that. And for me, financially, I have had some houses increase in value and some that have not. If I annualized my returns over the last 30 years of home ownership I have about a 3% yield. Not worth it to me. In theory I can keep doing this as long as I have capital, well in to retirement and I guess death. I may change my position at some point, but flexibility and freedom are pretty important to me.

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ah__there_is_another@reddit

Your situation is literally the one I want to reach! It's encouraging. I want to see my snowball rolling with that compounding effect and get there too.

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pinkpillow964@reddit

Whilst renting isn’t for everyone, I do plan on holding out until early 30s (f28). No one has ever recommended me to start a mortgage, ever. This country has an obsession with property ownership.

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surfrider0007@reddit

Mmm, I worked hard to get back into home ownership, because my housing cost will diminish over time rather than rise, which I see as a bonus. I’d argue that you do pay for repairs as that’s a factor as to why rent can be more expensive than a mortgaged like for like property, you don’t have to worry about arranging the repairs though!

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Winter_Turn_4317@reddit

Few years back before I bought my first, initial reason was it was too expensive to buy property then, once saved up, I had different business ventures and interests which returned better value than buying a home. So, didn’t buy until I wanted to settle in the end..

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AnonymousTimewaster@reddit

There seems to be a lot of extremely risky/flawed assumptions made by these people including that: * The state pension will continue to exist in ~40 years despite bankrupting the country by 2035 on the current trajectory * Their rent won't increase above inflation ad infinitum * Their investments will outpace the growth of their rent increases * Their investments will continue to perform as they have ove the last ~100 years and that we're not going to see any substantial change in our society * They won't live very long

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glowingGrey@reddit

I see the same flaws - a lot of online calculators don't factor the difference of rent inflation vs static mortgage costs and that homeowners can invest that difference which provides a compounding return to homeowners that's not available to renters. Or, putting it another way, the fixed investment in the house provides (tax free) value of whatever the going equivalent housing rate is into the future. The other difference is the upside/downside risk. If the renter comes out better they have more income, but a market downturn at the wrong time could mean they're under investing or withdrawing their fund too quickly and wiping out their future without enough time to make it back up. Whereas a homeowner is pretty much guaranteed at least somewhere to live.

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AnonymousTimewaster@reddit

> a homeowner is pretty much guaranteed at least somewhere to live Exactly. I feel like people forget this part. You're paying for the security and to fully eliminate that cost. If you want to roll the dice on the stock market over the course of 60+ years at an unbelievably unprecented time (climate change mixed with a *global* aging and declining population) then be my guest.

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CopperFox18@reddit

Just split with my partner and sold our flat. Bought for £440k last September, sold for £575k this October after £15k of renovations. Mortgage on anything decent would’ve left me stretched, so I will be renting a £900pcm flat in the same area of Bristol (a very lucky find) and will invest my sale money until the right place comes along. I’ll buy when I’m ready, but I am not going to cry in a Porsche with my name on it when I can laugh in a Porsche someone else pays to service.

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PutAutomatic2581@reddit

If I thought that far ahead I'd probably have to jump from something high.

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Own-Helicopter-5558@reddit

It just isn't a sustainable position - Only about 18% of property in the UK is private rented, vast majority is owner occupied. Around 80% of inward migration goes into private rental accommodation, so if things stay as they are, rent will become unaffordable in retirement.

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palisairuta@reddit

We are in our 60s and plan to sell both houses and rent in our retirement. Pointless owning a home when your elderly we think

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benbristol69@reddit

Buy a house outright with all the money I’ve saved by not paying interest, and the gains I’ve made by investing what I would have spent on a mortgage

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AppointmentAny4834@reddit

If that is the route one takes then a better idea is to retire and rent in a better tax regime eg Greece. Ideally somewhere near good health services. A no brainer

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Exact-Character313@reddit

I'm 47. I bought myself a decent apartment 15 years ago and threw every bit of spare money I had at it and paid off my mortgage in about 9 years. I've now got 20 years living easy not paying any rent or mortgage before I even retire. Plus I have a lodger who pays all my bills for me. Stress free life by design, just as I wanted it.

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fergie@reddit

A few people have tried to explain to me why its better to rent. I came away thinking that they didn’t really understand money.

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bhison@reddit

What about another question - people who buy but who aren't of exceptional wealth - at what point do you think you will be forced to sell in the coming decades due to market manipulation and cost of living increases conducted by private equity? You are not out of the clear even if you have paid your house off if you can't otherwise afford to live. You might be more comfortable for longer but the bastards will come for you, the same as the rest. I hope we can find some class solidarity between renters, buyers, housing association occupants.

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Mountain_Strategy342@reddit

Jump in the motorhome and work from anywhere I liked (I have no intention of retiring but am waiting for the kids to leave home).

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znv142@reddit

Why I chose to rent until I was 35? I was working a steady job at a place that I knew would never be my forever home in the UK. I was also developing my business in the meantime. Fast forward at 35 - I did buy a home abroad outright in the sun for a fraction of the price it would cost in the UK and I have a successful business to fund it. Frankly this would have been way more difficult if I had bought a house in my late 20s as I would not have had the flexibility and time to focus 100% of my free time on building my business or take the risk of quitting my job had I had a mortgage. It genuinely changed my life not being tied down to a place. I had this lovely moment when I was 35 in which I could chose anywhere in the world to live in. So I took advantage of it. This was a choice for me for around 6 or 7 years, however I have been very lucky with a good former career and a cheap life style. For most people renting is not a choice and it's important to recognise this.

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thesockpuppetaccount@reddit

I rent and I plan on renting houses that I wouldn’t want to tie up cash to buy while the kids are growing up and then one of the following will occur. A) business has taken off well and there’s enough cash floating about to buy or build our end of life house B) there’s enough to buy a static caravan somewhere C) become some sort of nomad and find a cheap overseas place to live as a pensioner D) turn to a life of crime if successful return to a or b if unsuccessful 3 square meals and a roof will be provided for me. E) throw myself of the mercy of whatever remnants remain of the social care system for old people who tried and failed at life. F) a tent in the woods. G) sofa surf with the kids. Completely stifle their independence. However it goes, seeing some of things homeowners go through. I’m not convinced it’s something I wish to burden myself with at this stage of my life. I need the flexibility and versatility of not being geographically or financially tied to an asset.

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lumiere108@reddit

I don’t see myself retiring on pension, I see myself retiring on my wealth😊

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Suchiko@reddit

*"renting is so much better..., you don't have to pay for repairs, etc."* Yeah, every landlord I've known thinks like that. I've never seen a rental that wasn't just a bit shit.

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dogleish23@reddit

I will travel slowly, volunteer on organic farms, visit friends, be a part of a community. I am working hard to ensure that my pension/savings will be enough to sustain me.

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No-Door-3181@reddit

My grandpa lived 60 years in a rent-controlled house until the day he passed away a couple of months back. My mom, aunt, cousins, and even I all lived there, and now the house went back to the landlord and it's actually one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. So yes, definitely an option, albeit a hard one.

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ProcedureGloomy6323@reddit

In the pure economical sense, owning a house is hardly the best form of investment l. however "finance" , in personal finance is only half of it... I am a homeowner because I love owning and doing what I want in my home... If you don't mind the stability (and the hassle associated) of owning a home you can still have a cushy retirement by investing your savings in the stock market... The S&P500 has growth 16% in the last year.... 100% in the last 5 years

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External-Pen9079@reddit

I’ve not come across many people who “choose” to rent… most of us are just poor.

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Starlinkukbeta@reddit

I don’t get the never pay it out argument. The house will rise in value, if you buy well. A 30 or even 40 year mortgage doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be paying out that long, especially as you’ll remortgage several times in a lifetime and can adjust to suit circumstances. If all else fails after 10 or 15 years you’ll have a sizeable asset, when selling and potentially can reevaluate what you want to do. Yes, personal circumstances will dictate rent vs.buy, but many, many people still buy and make great investment choices.

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vaidisl@reddit

Not sure if it will always rise. Sure it rises everywhere, but it rises to an absurd amount, that most common people just cannot afford it. Sooner or later these prices will crash out. Those who bought in 2000-2010 where lucky, but those who buy now, I don't think it will raise as much as everyone thinks.

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kuda09@reddit

It always rises; there is something called inflation, making a house a good store of value.

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Fedora_le_maximus@reddit

This breaking point is further than you think, see housing prices in Toronto or Hong Kong for example

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WGSMA@reddit

There’s lots of London Flat Owners who thought the same, and now have assets worth £0

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lilfupat@reddit

My mum is retired, she rents but from the council. It has presented some issues because she claims UC and gets a small pension amount. Her pension decreases the amount of UC they give her. So she doesn’t have a lot of money.

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dread1961@reddit

If your retirement income is high you just put some aside to pay rent, if it is low you can claim housing benefit.

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_debowsky@reddit

Use my savings to buy a house outright cash without involving a bank who will require me to pay interests on it? Move somewhere where my pension will allow me live comfortably? Ask my kids for pay back? There are so many options to be honest. The way I see it, especially in the current extortionate and overinflated market, is that buying a house on a mortgage to live in it yourself is not different from paying a landlord, it won’t generate any passive income for you and it won’t really benefit you in the long run. Investing in multiple properties and buy to let on the other end, that’s a completely different story.

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geylangheadhoncho@reddit

They don't plan to retire I guess

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DeliciousIce114@reddit

I live in Fife, Scotland, just outside Edinburgh. I could buy, but renting is very affordable here. Unless there is a drastic increase in the medium term, I don't see the point.

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Larnak1@reddit

I invested my potential deposit + the difference between rent and mortgage + maintenance cost and save it, so that my 'income' will be high enough to continue renting after retirement. I might also still decide to buy if I ever feel like it. With those long-term savings, I could go for a pretty short mortgage or even eventually buy outright.

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Obscure-Oracle@reddit

Die? I think realistically working till i drop is what i am potentially looking at. Hopefully i don't fall ill before and have the state stick me in some crappy retirement home or crappy housing association flat.

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D3mentedG0Ose@reddit

Retire? Hahahahahaha

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WaltzFirm6336@reddit

Depends if people have a good pension. If they do, they can probably do a cash draw down to cover a one bed retirement flat (those only selling to over 55s are obviously much cheaper than the open market). Unfortunately there’s a growing trend of those flats being absolute money pits for service charges etc, and impossible to sell, but it has in the past been an option.

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Hour-Cup-7629@reddit

1 in 20 men die before they are 60. But that also means 19/20 dont.

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savageresolve@reddit

True, but it's not just about lifespan. A lot of people plan to have investments or savings to cover living costs in retirement, including rent. Renting can offer flexibility, but it's crucial to have a solid financial plan for when you're older.

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TheNorthernBaron@reddit

Retire? You mean die at work?

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Scarred_fish@reddit

If I live that long (EXTREMELY UNLIKELY), then I'll end up on some sort of benefits, etc. Buying,like saving, is an utter mugs game. I did it for a few years until I realised how stupid it was. Now, we enjoy our money month to month, no stress, no worries, happy as fuck.

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Infinite-Blah-2988@reddit

I’m hoping to get into one of the rental houses/flats reserved for “over 55s” when I’m older. I think it tends to be cheaper because from my understanding they’re usually council properties. There will probably be massive waiting lists but hopefully it’ll be an option for me. If not, hopefully my state & private pension will cover rent at a private property. I went through a phase of wanting to buy but I’ve accepted it’s out of my reach and have stopped caring about that now.

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Tinchen_in_london@reddit

The Brits are just obsessed with properties. I rent but have a sizeable private pension and investments which which grow over the next 20 years. It’s enough to pay for my rent and expenses. I don’t envisage myself staying in the UK though when I no longer have to go into the office. My job lends itself well to being a consultant and I would rather rent a house somewhere in Italy for a fraction of the price.

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Accomplished-Art7737@reddit

The only reason I rent at nearly 45 is because I just cannot save for a deposit. Every time I try to save a bit, something seems to come along - car repairs, vet bills or whatever and I need to empty my savings again. I’m single, have been for a long time, just never been lucky in love and made my peace with that. But it is challenging financially. I earn enough to pay my essential bills, feed myself a nourishing diet, and have a bit left over for fun - but not loads. I work hard, I need a social life and the odd holiday, my mental health would crash if I didn’t. And to be honest I think if you work full time you’re entitled to have some enjoyment in life. With the cost of literally everything going up it’s hard to find any spare money to put in savings most months. I am a current civil servant and plan to stay in the service til retirement so I’ll have at least 20 years in the civil service alpha pension which is defined benefit so will pay me an annual career average until death. I also have a fairly decent amount in an old defined contribution pension from a private sector employer that I paid into for 14 years and is so far doing quite well in terms of growth. I also have a private pension that I pay into if I ever have any spare money, not much in there currently but I won’t be retiring any time soon so it should build a bit over the years. My plan is to use my old DC pension and private pension to buy a park home on a residential site when I turn 55 and I can then hopefully live mortgage and rent free once I reach SPA on my CS pension. Honestly at the moment that’s the only way I can foresee me being able to realistically own property unless I have a lotto win or big inheritance. My parents are by no means super rich but are comfortably off now in retirement. I’m not expecting them to bail me out. I want them to enjoy their retirement and spend their money how they wish. Hopefully they will have a long healthy retirement without the state getting their hands on their assets for care costs and then my sibling and I might get some inheritance but I’m not entitled enough to expect it.

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WGSMA@reddit

Live on my massive stock portfolio… Even if I owned, based on projections, it would be just a small share of my net worth. Ultimately, my wife and I are going to be too well off to worry about it.

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UsernameRemorse@reddit

Most people rent because they don’t have any choice. Especially single people. Very few people are renting because it’s their preferred option, although some might claim they are. So the answer to this is (as a renter who can’t afford to buy) is ‘I don’t know’.

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ChocolateSnowflake@reddit

None of my grandparents ever owned property. They lived in council houses/flats all their lives and eventually received housing benefit on top of state and private pensions. They lived quite comfortably, never had to worry about housing repairs, got a new kitchen and bathroom every 10 years (eventually wet rooms) and stair lifts installed.

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Evening-Ad9149@reddit

Claim housing benefit like every other pensioner with no savings does. Assuming there’s a pension for me when I get to pension age.

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DrH1983@reddit

I'm not choosing to rent, but I just assume I'll work until I drop dead from exhaustion. Either that or I'm taking my pension as cash, buying a load of drugs and metaphorically sailing off into the sunset.

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Lazercrafter@reddit

Council house, rent and council tax are paid for you. But since the retirement age will probably be 70 by then, I’ll be dead!

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cwright017@reddit

You pay your rent with the money you’ve saved by not buying 😅 surely that’s not that hard to comprehend?

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CoolJetReuben@reddit

Quickly die

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Thurad@reddit

Renting used to be cheaper than a mortgage. The low interest rates, loss of council housing stock (so loss of affordable housing), and the rise of buy to let mortgages has resulted in rental prices rocketing the last 10 years or so.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

Even with a deposit of over 30% it still took me a full two years before my mortgage repayments fell below my old rent. And I was now on the hook for other costs including buildings insurance, various repairs and so on.

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KingkLou@reddit

I think a lot of it is pride. People don't like to admit that they have no other choice but to rent someone else's house forever.

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RoyofBungay@reddit

I couldn’t even buy a flat in my 30’s due to salary restraints and the same still applies now at 54. Apparently, according to Redditors I should either get married, get a better job or move. or combination of these. In other words victim blaming instead focusing on market forces as the issue. In some ways looking back I am glad I didn’t buy a hypothetical flat, as service charges are charged arbitrarily, rolling the dice with neighbour types and resale value of such properties.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

> Apparently, according to Redditors I should either get married, get a better job or move. Have you tried buying a house in a shithole town back in 1992?

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wanderingmemory@reddit

Investing in index funds that will pay expenses in retirement, rent is just another expense to be calculated.

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Regular_Zombie@reddit

I was quite comfortable renting, was quite good at putting money away, and benefited from a long bull run in the stock market. The only reason housing would have potentially earned me more is because most people are heavily leveraged in property and gains are tax free. I decided to buy when the kid started school. At that point I was no longer going to be chasing opportunities and moving at a whim. The interest component on the mortgage is about 1/3 of the cost of renting a similarly property in the area. The rest of the payment is forced savings.

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bars_and_plates@reddit

I own a home and I am going to sell it soon and rent. When I retire I plan to either buy at that point, or use the money I have in my investments and savings to pay for the rent. The UK has a bizarre attitude towards the concept of savings and investments - most of the population look at you as if you have two heads if you tell them that you get dividends.

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Informal_Ganache_222@reddit

Fear of commitment.

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Putrid_Food_3694@reddit

Put money into the stocks for over 10 years, will have enough to buy a house outright soon, but won't. I will continue to invest for another 20 years and maybe buy a house when I retire. I should have enough to buy 2 or 3 by then.

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burtbasic@reddit

Die 💀 lmao

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Succotash-suffer@reddit

My uncle was in this situation, his retirement plan was none existent. He moved to Thailand at 67 and has been there a decade. He has a Thai wife in her fifties.

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NoRequirement2846@reddit

I haven’t got a choice, parents won’t let me stay at their house and I can’t afford a deposit

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Specialist-Mud-6650@reddit

Funny enough my parents are renting now. In their 70s, with plenty of cash to buy outright. I think the interest they are getting on the cash from selling their old house more than outpaces what they are paying for rent. So maybe a niche example, but an example nonetheless.

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craig_atkinson@reddit

This is on the assumption that said people are not actively investing in other cash flowing assets ? With a view to be able to put down a higher deposit later on ? Put down a deposit of 30k and then pay solicitors, surveyors etc etc Or rent and pay next to nothing up front and use the 30k plus to invest in either yourself or other cash flowing assets. Then one day buy the house outright. Too many people live in a bubble built by that last generation

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benketeke@reddit

Inherit.

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NEWSBOT3@reddit

I'm working till i'm dead, there is no retirement for me. unless someone wants to chuck a 6 figure sum my way.

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Designer-Computer188@reddit

A lot of people are basically just expecting the state and fate to decide for them.

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Altruistic_Use_3610@reddit

The new council house won't be a house or flat, it will become a HMO and possibly room sharing, it's not sustainable in it's current form.

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Soft_Fisherman4506@reddit

I hant actually though of this, but it makes sense. Are u specualting or have any further info?

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Rossco1874@reddit

No idea to be honest I am 42 didn't expect to still be renting by now. But my credit history has been poor since my 20s & I am not going to be anywhere near acceptance for a mortgage. Best I can hope for is some kind inheritance that allows me to buy or at least clear my debts & allow me to steer towards a healthier credit history.

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lan0028456@reddit

There might some viable reasons to rent instead of buying when they can afford to, but "I won't live that long" is a really stupid mindset TBH.

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vaidisl@reddit

What's the point of buying when you never ever going to pay it out ? I have enough money for deposit, but I'll better go and travel for year somewhere then buy here, as inflation everything goes up, it seems like the house payments will stay there until your last breath. Market is broken, house price are ridiculous, you get 400-500k house and it looks like garbage in here, go to European countries and buy a house for that money.. you will feel like a royal comparing to what you get in here - living in a matchbox... I'm probably wrong in few things here, but that is the way I feel about it.

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Zavodskoy@reddit

> What's the point of buying when you never ever going to pay it out ? If you can manage to scrape together a deposit for a 25 year mortgage before you turn 40 you'll pay it off by the time you're 65 and ready to start looking at retiring That then saves you an absolute fortune when you're retired in a large bill you no longer need to worry about paying.

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vaidisl@reddit

Same thing they said about my student loan, but some reason after paying for 10 years, I have way more to pay then I've started with. I understand your way, its way more logical at the end paying for your own property then paying for someone else, but still, a price for house you want ( I don't want much ) is not reasonable in these days market, they mostly look absolutely bizarre. 200k flat (Bristol) we renting in is ridiculously small, and we not even in town center, and to pay a price for a house as this, is just ridiculous.

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Zavodskoy@reddit

Because with a student loan you're repaying less than the interest on it. With a mortgage you actually chip away at it until 25 years later when it's fully paid off. Like I said you just need to scrape together enough for a mortgage before you turn 40, I'm not saying you need to have paid off your mortgage by the time you turn 40.

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vaidisl@reddit

Thanks for info :) . Well I guess I just need to change my opinion on that, gonna travel for a year if all goes good, and see what I want from live, maybe in few years time I will realise that it is time to save it. Will see.

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Optimal_Collection77@reddit

I'm 46 and have nearly paid off my house. It is about priorities and balancing debt. I cleared my student loans asap and increase savings when I was able to. It's not always possible obviously but it can be done

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vaidisl@reddit

When did you bought a house? I bet its not after Covid.. House prices are ridiculous, while salaries are not increasing equally

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No-Structure-8125@reddit (OP)

For me, the point is being comfortable when I'm older. I don't want to be 80 years old and worrying about trying to pay £1500 per month in rent.

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Select_Yoghurt_1138@reddit

One of my grandparents is like this, has to pay rent every month. Moved in with my aunty to save on it as they couldn't afford it on the state pension and a personal one. On the other side of the coin, my other grandparents got their house paid off in their 40s. With all the stresses that come with old age, it was nice to see that one thing they NEVER had to worry about was a roof over their head.

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No-Structure-8125@reddit (OP)

Yeah my grandad had his house paid off really early. Obviously it was much easier for them in that time though. He also retired at 52. That's my dream, to be able to retire early with my house paid off.

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HeWhoHasABeard@reddit

It’s not even that. My mortgage has gone up a few hundred pounds a month since I took it out but that will probably decrease at the next review due to interest rates Rents on the other hand just go up. So when I’m near retirement my mortgage will be roughly the same. But those renting will be paying a lot more

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Impressive-Type3250@reddit

if you bought young, you likely will pay it off via remortgaging, selling or downsizing

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Redditisarsebollocks@reddit

Gonna buy a granny flat for £50k, and pay the ground rent and service charge which is about 25% of my current rent payout. State pension, work pension, private pension, and my S&S ISA can afford it.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

Those over-55 flats would probably be perfect for me. Unfortunately I'm too young and likely wouldn't financially qualify anyway.

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Wububadoo@reddit

Lol, choice.

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Jolly-Minimum-6641@reddit

One of the things I find most insufferable about British culture is this absolute fanaticism about home ownership. Honestly, I wouldn't have bothered if we had a culture of high quality social rents at knockdown prices.

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REidson89@reddit

The question isn't aimed at me because Im renting due to not being able to buy. But I've been wondering what will happen when I get old.

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Firstpoet@reddit

What happens when the laptop brigade in Gail's are replaced by AI in their 40s?

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W51976@reddit

I’ll work 2 days a week. I can’t see myself ever stopping work completely, and I’m 49.

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trippykitsy@reddit

i will die horribly

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Mundane-Living-3630@reddit

Because my pension will be enourmous, so that it’s fine? I’d be more concerned with those who property and neglected their pension. Compound interedt works in my favour.

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PuzzledFishOfTheSea@reddit

I plan to live before I die. My retirement plan is a horse and wagon. Then, ill die.

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DeCyantist@reddit

I prefer to move around for new job opportunities. I am not UK born, so buying in the UK didn’t make sense until I had enough saved up in investments so that the investments themselves give me enough passive income to pay for my mortgage. I then decided I wanted to live abroad to earn more and accelerate my savings. Once I find I had enough of being out of the UK, I’ll go back and probably will consider buying or using the earnings from the investment to pay for rent. If you have 1m+, then that income can easily pay for rent and continue growing, while you can decide to move countries later on and take the money with you without having to go through selling your assets and paying for all of the transaction costs.

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Low-Cauliflower-5686@reddit

I still rent and nearly 40. Looking to buy but on single income, the repayments are coming out around £300 more a month than my current rent

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impendingcatastrophe@reddit

Rent.

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