Moving to Hungary, any tips?

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mandance17@reddit

It’s a pretty poor country, so you won’t make much money. Vienna is close to Budapest and far superior imo

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m4gister_militum@reddit

Budapest is 100 times more interesting and fun that sterile Vienna. Wages are way better in Vienna though...

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Manonemo@reddit

Totally agreed! West+USA didnt choked life out of Hungary yet

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mandance17@reddit

Yeah, OP was asking about wages and building a life, not partying or night life.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

But the cost of living in Vienna is too high for me, I've been there. It's absurd... The good thing about Hungary is that my Brazilian money is worth something there, as the prices of everything are so similar. Also, the housing is more affordable there than where I live, and the salaries are also better (São Paulo is no joke)

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RearAdmiralP@reddit

Hi! I moved to Hungary. I think it's a nice place to live.

As far as tips go, make sure your birth certificate has an apostille on it-- you'll need it when you want to apply for permanent residence after living in the country for a few years. I'm in the middle of dealing with this right now. Although, if you're already a citizen of an EU country, then maybe you don't need to bother with this.

If you and your boyfriend would like to start a family, Hungary has a particularly strong family policy. There are all kinds of benefits and subsidies you can qualify for-- ex. subsidized loans for home renovation, grants for purchasing larger house, grants for seven passenger cars for large families, extra vacation days, tax breaks, etc. If you have kids, you'll also get two years of maternity leave at up to 70% of your salary and a third year at a lower rate. Kids attend kindergarten from three years old, and there is free / inexpensive childcare for kids under three if you would like to return to work sooner.

Inflation has been an issue, but wages have largely kept pace. The last central statistical office (KSH) report I saw said that median wages increased something like 20-25% from 2022 to 2023. If you own your own house, you won't need to be concerned about increasing rents, which is nice. The government has also maintained a residential utility price cap scheme for heating and electricity, and has imposed price caps (which have now been changed to a schema or rotating mandatory sales) on basic foods (flour, milk, chicken, etc.) when sold by large, foreign owned grocery stores (Aldi, Lidl, Spar, etc.). For a while, we also had tax reductions on petrol and diesel for cars registered in Hungary, which resulted in the cheapest fuel in the EU. At one point, fuel in Hungary was even cheaper than in some parts of the US. Sadly, western owned/supported media outlets (RTL is particularly guilty here) spread (false) rumors about potential shortages, which led to panic buying and actual shortages, and the scheme had to be scrapped.

One negative of living in Hungary is the political situation. Wealthy western Europeans aren't particularly fans of the Orban government and actively try to undermine it through collective punishment of Hungarians, ex. by withholding EU funds on arbitrary pretenses, spreading propaganda, and meddling in Hungary's internal politics. The current US administration is also actively hostile to Hungary. Last year, the US regime cancelled a treaty aimed at preventing double taxation, earlier this year announced significant funding for new propaganda production, and last week announced travel restrictions on Hungarians visiting or transiting through the US. In last year's parliamentary elections, US and western European based NGOs funneled 4B forints to the opposition. The money was laundered through local companies and NGOs to circumvent the 1.1B forint spending cap and restrictions on foreign money in elections. So, there is very real possibility of continuing collective punishment of Hungarians for electing a government that is unpopular in the west, and there is the possibility of political instability resulting from the foreign meddling.

Regarding jobs, as a non-Hungarian speaker, it is possible to find positions with international companies that use English as a working language. I work in one such company. I understand that there is also demand for English (and other language) speakers in corporate shared service centers. Unfortunately, I think most of these jobs will be in Budapest. You might also look at positions in schools, but I'm not sure how that market works. I would suggest to just go on LinkedIn and look at job ads that are posted in English.

If you and your boyfriend both earn an average wage (500-550k/mo), figure a combined income of around 700k HUF after taxes, which should be very livable if you're not paying rent.

Anyway, I don't think your plan to move here is crazy. If you've already lived in Hungary for six months, then you know whether you like living here. As an EU citizen, you don't need to bother with getting a visa. If you can find a job that you like, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to move here. Good luck!

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Manonemo@reddit

Omg, you have no idea how long I was looking for someone with brain. I am aware of situation in Hungary, political situation, and I am shocked simeone else realizes it as well and says it out loud.

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UncomplimentaryToga@reddit

what treaty aimed at preventing double taxation did the US cancel? afaik a totalization agreement still exists

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RearAdmiralP@reddit

what treaty aimed at preventing double taxation did the US cancel?

"THE CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE HUNGARIAN PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME, SIGNED AT WASHINGTON, FEBRUARY 12, 1979" is the one that was cancelled. You can see the full text here: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/hungary.pdf

Here's the press release from the US Treasury Department about the cancellation: https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0872

Here are a couple of articles with background:

https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/news/u-s-ending-tax-treaty-with-hungary/
https://kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2022/07/%20.html

Here's an article with more details about the specific tax changes: https://www.rsm.hu/en/blog/2023/09/tax-consequences-of-the-termination-of-the-us-hungarian-tax-treaty

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Thank you so much for this complete answer!

I'm in the process of getting my Italian passport (I am a citizen). I think that's enough to live there without getting trouble with the visa, isn't it? Last time I didn't have my Italian passport in hands, so I had to go through all the bureaucracy to prove that I was a student learning there, it was hell.

My boyfriend already earns approximately 700K forints a month, but he works with technology. Given that my career is not as good, I don't expect to get this big of a salary so fast if ever... But you never know! But this is for sure my biggest worry. I don't want him to spend with me, I want to be able to share the bills and all the expenses with him, so I need at least a decent job.

I have a plan B too. I could also do a masters there, but the scholarship is very bad: just 87K forints... Honestly, I think I would not have time to get a full time job while doing a masters, so I don't know if this a good option for me...

Thank you for the encouragement. We will be in Budapest, which is better to find jobs as a non-Hungarian I think :)

And btw, where are you from?

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RearAdmiralP@reddit

Yes, I think if you have an EU citizenship, then it's greatly simplified to live here. I'm from the US, so I get to go through the whole bureaucracy. It's annoying, but it's still 100x easier than what my wife had to deal with in the US, so I don't complain too much.

Your boyfriend's 700k/mo is pretty good, and, if he stays in tech, it can go much higher in the future. An 87k scholarship is better than nothing, I guess, but it's not much. To give an idea of wages, McDonalds is currently paying ~220k/mo for restaurant workers, and Tesco is paying ~240k/mo for people to stock the shelves. I'm not suggesting that you work in those places. I'm using them as minimum for what someone who is capable of showing up at the right time, right place, with the right uniform and following basic instructions can earn. You have the disadvantage of not speaking Hungarian, but you have the advantage of education and speaking English and another language, so I think you can realistically expect to earn more than someone stocking shelves at Tesco. If you're not paying rent, and you can have a (before tax) income of over 1M HUF between you and your boyfriend, you can live nicely. If your boyfriend is already at 700k/mo, then I think it's something realistic to achieve.

Best of luck to you!

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Yesterday I started looking for jobs at LinkedIn and I found some great ones! They ask some knowledge in costumer service but I think I could learn that, the main requeriments are to speak Portuguese and English, some social skills etc, and the salary is great imo, 500K HUFs

Maybe it's too early to start looking for jobs, but at least I can start adapting my CV to what they usually want!!

Oh, McDonalds is an option if I can't find anything, that would be okay for a while 😅

Thank you for all the help and best of luck for you guys too :)

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Dumuzzi@reddit

You won't need much else apart from your Italian passport. Moving to Budapest, finding a job won't be a huge issue, but in your place I'd get certifications to teach English and Portuguese as a foreign language (Toefl, Celta, etc...), it pays really well and allows you to set your own schedule. You can easily just get by giving private lessons, but it will take some time to build up your clientele. Other than that, they're always looking for Portuguese and English speakers in SSC-s and many touristy places like to hire English speakers. Since you don't really have financial pressure to find a job quickly, you'll do just fine.

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South-Safety4838@reddit

I'm a year late to this post, but does anyone know how far back on Hungarian ancestry you can go in order to obtain citizenship? I understand you must know the language, but how far back can you go? Great grand parent? or further?

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KetoJunkfood@reddit

My husband is doing it right now based on his great grandparents.

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

My opinion (I am Hungarian and also lived abroad and visited other places) is that Hungary (Budapest especially) is a good place in terms of people. There is a good balance of seriousness, hospitality, and leaving others alone.

Although if you are from Brazil, you may be bullied by some people. There is a huge chunk of population who are -to be honest- useless and uneducated. Bad part is maybe you would have to deal with them sometimes, and good part is that the most bottom scum doesn't speak a foreign language so they will stutter at you at most and leave you alone.

In terms of money, I think foreigners have positive discrimination in many cases somehow. So I think you could find work.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Hello, thank you for taking the time :D

I've seen something about Hungary wanting to leave the EU, is that right? That would be awful for me and all the foreigners... But I don't understand what do you mean by if Hungary will even exist :(

I hope I don't get this bullying, that sounds terrible. So far while I've been there everybody was really nice to me, but I noticed some Hungarians have many prejudices against other cultures. But at least in Budapest, there is slowly a community of Brazilian people growing there! We watched the World Cup in a Brazilian restaurant and every month there was a Brazilian party held by the Brazilians.

Tourism sounds cool, but maybe I should be more extroverted for this job...

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Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit

Most Hungarians support being part of the EU. But if you look at Hungarian history, Hungary has always been separated by language, and norms that are conventional for other Europeans never worked in Hungary. It had one of the most wars of any country in history, and probably as many people died in wars throughout history, as the current population. EU is good for economy and business, but are touching the borders of colonialism as a legislative power, which I think most people dislike. Right now Ukraine seems to be the favorized foster child, and Hungary seems to be the Troyan horse and enemy by Western globalist media.

(Politics is too much:

Hungarian middle class and real intellectuals basically live in England, Germany, USA or anywhere else, as Orbán is trying to control the economy, legislation, and the media. From the three power branches of government, two are held by the same power by law, and the third is kind of controlled by Orbán as well, and economy is mostly owned by his friends and family members through taking people's properties, using regulations, then giving subsidies to his friends. But generally, politics is just too much, and this communist ex-agent even created his own constitution in 2012 without a referendum, and if you try to abide by regulations, they are quite unpredictable and can change in every few weeks. If you create a successful business and stand out "too much", they may take your money or seize your properties to give to their friends, or create regulations to you that suffocate your business (so that you either become poor, or join them "as a vassal" or migrate to other countries and then they don't really let you vote. But this doesn't affect you like this, as you are a foreigner.) )

Yes people are nice and hospitable in a lot of cases. But there are people who don't like people with darker skin tones, or foreigners in general. But racism in Hungary is different from racism in the West in my opinion.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

I noticed that in Budapest people seem tired of hearing English all the time. But as the time passes my Hungarian skills are becoming better and I think I will be able to communicate in stores.

I noticed this, it's astonishing how there are so few people who are non-white in Hungary, but of course, this is obvious. I come from a super diverse country, but this is not common, I know. I guess I blend in okay, because I'm white, people can't tell immediately that I'm foreigner.

So to leave the EU, Hungarian would have to agree to it, but most people don't want that? I hope Orbán doesn't convince the old people to support this idea :(

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NikiAveril@reddit

Unfortunately, Orbán controls all of the country, so to leave the EU, it's enough if he says so. But it would mean the collapse of the economy, so he would instantly lose his power. I have no doubt he can convince his supporters of anything (35 years ago, they all hated the Russian rule, but now they love Putin, and this is just one example), but when he spent a lot of taxpayer money on an anti-EU campaign (during the London or Rio Olympics, when most people watch the state-owned media covering the events), it had no effect, so I'm hopeful.

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RearAdmiralP@reddit

So to leave the EU, Hungarian would have to agree to it, but most people don't want that? I hope Orbán doesn't convince the old people to support this idea :(

I know it's reported in some places that Orbán wants Hungary to leave the EU, but when I look at primary sources (ex. transcripts of speeches and interviews), I can't find anywhere where Orbán suggests such a thing. In fact, typically he says the opposite-- that he does not want Hungary to leave the EU, and it would be a bad idea. Orbán has disagreed with specific EU policies (ex. on Ukraine), and he has suggested reforms to the structure of the EU (see Seven Theses on the Future of Europe), characterizing it as undemocratic and over-reaching in issues that should be national competencies, but he does not suggest leaving the EU. Rather, he has stated in various interviews that if Hungary were to leave the EU (under his administration) it would be because Hungary was forced out.

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Remarkable_Cow919@reddit

Hungary sounds like a great place to move to. They aren’t woke and don’t allow mass immigration like the rest of Europe. Hungary and Japan are some of the only ones that do this and their societies are doing just fine. I’d go to Japan but I don’t think that you can live there full-time if you aren’t Japanese.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

they aren't woke, that's for sure hsjsnd I'm going to live there as an Italian, I think there won't be any problem unless they decide to leave Europe

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NikiAveril@reddit

A European country can't leave Europe, just the EU. It's basic geography. But indeed, I hope Orbán is not that stupid. But if he removes the country from the EU, he will be worthless for both Russia and China, plus even his fans support EU membership, so we are probably staying.

Politics may be a problem, as Hungary is ruled by a wannabe dictator (only the EU is holding him back), and his party made their fans hate immigrants, but with an EU passport, you'll be fine. You can apply to language schools or become a private teacher, there are several sites where you can post an ad, and as you have more and more students, they can recommend you to others. Good luck!

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commonsensekeys@reddit

I have been living in Hungary for nearly 8 years. I teach English on and offline. There are always those who wish to learn, both young and old. Teaching online can be lucrative and stressful. There is an ESL teacher community out there groups on facebook etc... There are tons of free helpful tools and resources.... and of course, lots of paid resources available... I recommmend getting set up on a web site like Preply and start teaching on there online. A simple setup can get you started.

laptop, good lighting, headset with microphone, internet

When you find a place to live in Hungary, you probably have to get an address card for your residence (lákcím kártya). Best of luck!

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Thank you for your comment! I subscribed to your channel.

Can I ask you how much do you earn in HUFs? Is it enough to live comfortably?

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commonsensekeys@reddit

I typically ask for 4500 HUF per 30 minutes. Or 5000 HUF for 30 minutes online English lessons. I think it's better to teach with a company because it can be stressful to find and maintain a student base. I'm considering in-person groups and online groups for future income sake. I suppose it depends on who you talk to. But, private teaching alone is a bit difficult, I'd find a comoany which already has students and work with them and their students. And, take on private students if needed and as able to ask for a higher rate.

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xX-DataGuy-Xx@reddit

Make sure you get enough to eat. You're Hungry all the time now.

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PontiacOnTour@reddit

akkor a kurva anyád

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mandance17@reddit

Hahaha, no one has a sense of humor these days as it looks from the downvotes

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_GlobalCoach_@reddit

Hello there! This is a big move but an exciting one. If you are looking to further explore this goal and tactics to achieve it, please feel free to reach out by replying to this comment or sending me a DM. We can have a quick conversation to see if this would be a good fit for expat coaching.

I am currently undertaking the Cambridge Online Business Coaching Programme and I am looking for coachees. This would be free of charge as part of my training and would cover 3 sessions (one per week or every other week). Feel free to message me to learn more, no strings attached. This invitation is also open to anyone who sees this.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

I'm interested!

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_GlobalCoach_@reddit

Great, just sent you a direct message in the chat!

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Acrobatic-Initial911@reddit

Dont wear lgbtq clothes when entering the country

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Wombatsarecute@reddit

I think your best bet could be SSCs or maybe language education, or you can possibly do a PhD. You will definitely want to learn Hungarian tho in the long-term.

Depending on what your BF does for a living, you guys might be better off moving to Portugal tho.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

I've thought about doing a masters, but so far it doesn't look so worth it... I have to check again. They would pay me a scholarship but it's not enough money to live with. But I think it's something to consider :)

What are SSCs?

He is a software developer/electric engineer. Yeah, he wanted to move to Lisbon, it's an option one day!

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Wombatsarecute@reddit

SSCs are Shared Services Centers. He could easily find sth remote/in Lisbon with that skillset

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FancyJassy@reddit

Germany has a decent Brazilian-expat population and has generally more job opportunities. Learning the language is the hard part, but plenty of Brazilians/Europeans do it. Housing is super tough in Berlin, and too many scams going on, but if you are willing to live on the outskirts, the smaller cities are quite charming.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

I have a friend finishing a masters in Germany :D she can live with the scholarship she gets, I would love that

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Daidrion@reddit

I was actually surprised how many Brazilians are here in Hamburg.

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FancyJassy@reddit

I was also surprised, I had never met a Brazilian prior to living in Germany though I had lived in a large city in the US. Know I know quite a few and I think they are really amazing people.

Also- I don’t know why I am getting downvoted ☹️

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larrykeras@reddit

Doesn't seem great odds.

The labor market (wages) there are poor. The country is not that English-friendly (you may have noticed from your living there). Both will severely limit the opportunities for decent-paying, non-Hungarian speaking jobs.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Yeah, my main concern is that I can't get many jobs being non-Hungarian. I know there are some multinational corporations there that offer remote jobs but maybe I'm not totally qualified :(

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YvetteBloemen@reddit

Oi, some Hungarians and many politicians can be quite racist and xenophobic (from my biased Dutch point of view) so be prepared for that. It really helps to 'know people in the right places' so I hope your bf knows people. And find the nice, non-racist Hungarians, there are plenty of those!

If it gets too much, come to the Netherlands! Housing is difficult (housing crisis) but there are plenty of jobs and most people are not racist or xenophobic.

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kangaroofulloflove@reddit (OP)

Yes, he always tells me that if you know one Hungarian person it's easier to get cool jobs :) I've found many cool Hungarians and foreigners there in the exchange program, I miss these people, kind of like a community. The idea to go to another European country is still there, we might do this in a few years if everything turns out fine, as my boyfriend works remotely. But in Hungary we would already have a house, and the housing prices there are kind of cheap from my standards (in São Paulo it's so hard to find a decent house that all my friends choose to live with their parents)

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AmerikanischerTopfen@reddit

It’ll be very difficult but love is a great reason to do it! Hungary is beautiful but has lots of problems just like Brazil or anywhere else. Language will be a huge barrier but it sounds like you already understand that well if you’ve been studying it for a year. Good luck!

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