Worth buying a car when selling with only “bill of sale”?
Posted by ProcessEnvironmental@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 33 comments
Hi, I’ve thinking of buying a used car because the market right now is crazy expensive but regardless; many older car sellers are selling without a title and only with bill of sale. Wanted to know the legality/logistics behind bill of sale and whether or not it’s worth the hassle. Thank you!
Gunk_Olgidar@reddit
Ask your DMV. The rules for vehicle sales w/r/t titles vary by jurisdiction.
In most states, if the seller doesn't have a paper title in hand, and if they do and it doesn't match the car VIN or the seller's address on the title doesn't match the address on the seller's ID and their face doesn't match the ID, then the sales transaction cannot be legally completed because you're effectively exchanging your cash for a stolen car.
DreadedFate7@reddit
Stay far away from sellers without a car title. There is a good chance of it being stolen or a scam.
ProcessEnvironmental@reddit (OP)
Is there a way for the seller to get a clean title per se the original is lost? Of course assuming the seller has no malicious intent.
Worst-Lobster@reddit
Meet them at the local car licensing office and sort it out , if they won’t meet you there it’s a scam for sure
SalaryDull5301@reddit
This is a pretty easy solution, it does put more of a burden on the buyer. Personally id never try to sell a car without just ordering a new title from the dmv first. If not your time is gonna be wasted dealing with low ballers and tire kickers and in the end you aren't going to be able to sell it for as much
AlabamaPanda777@reddit
Having no title tanks a car's value. Why would the seller not get the title so they can sell for more?
If they just lost the paper, where I live, it's $15 and a trip to the County Clerk to get it reprinted. Why would they not do that to sell for more money?
Probably they never had it titled to them.
If a mechanic or storage facility had it abandoned, there's mechanisms for those to obtain a title. If that applied, why wasn't it done?
Any of those best case scenarios present a way for the seller to get a title, 10x easier than you could.
Some states may let you try to get a title. Certainly a lengthy process, which would involve either trying to contact the titled owner or proving you tried (like putting an ad in the paper)
And if they showed up and weren't the seller - bye, car. It's theirs. The title says so.
D-Laz@reddit
Yes and it only takes about a week or two. Recently sold a motorcycle and had to order a new title. It was like 20ish bucks.
Kseries2497@reddit
Speaking as someone who's done it, it's a tremendous pain in the ass. It would be significantly easier to do if the car was already registered to you - that is, you lost the title slip for a car you already own - but titling a car that was sold to you without one sucks.
YinzerInEurope@reddit
Yeah, they need to apply for a new title. Dont let their problems become your problems.
Vyke-industries@reddit
If you don’t have a SIGNED title then you don’t have shit.
Simple-Swan8877@reddit
Recently I bought a new car because the incentives to buy a new one make it come much closer to the price of a used car. Several years ago I paid for a car when I transferred the title. The seller and myself went to the DMV together.
Jumpy_Childhood7548@reddit
No title, no way.
2WheelTinker-@reddit
If you have to ask Reddit about buying something without a title, you absolutely should not be buying something without a title.
kerberos824@reddit
It's relatively straightforward for the current owner of a car to get a replacement title. My recollection is that CA requires titles for all cars - not just after a certain age (like 1972 in NY). So if they are actually the owner of the car, it's their job to get a title for it. It's their job, not yours. If they aren't doing that, there's better than even odds something is wrong with title to the car; either it's got a lien on it or it's stolen or something else. It's also more difficult for the new owner of an untitled car to get title to it (at least it is in NY). For me, it's an absolute deal breaker.
The only time I'd put a caveat on this is if the owner died and the estate is selling the car. It's relatively common in that situation for the estate to not be able to locate title to the car and to sell it without one. But this often involves a steep discount to expedite getting rid of it.
HalfBlindKing@reddit
Looks like it’s possible to be legit and not have a title, but I’d have to want a car awfully bad to want to go through all this. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/how-to-register-vehicles-which-are-no-longer-on-dmvs-records-htvr-14/
Eagle_Fang135@reddit
If the car does have a title, it is like $30 to get another one.
If there is no title, how do you own the car. And even more important, how would you register it.
No title sounds like stolen car.
Maybe that is okay for a collector car that sits on display? But not a daily driver that needs to be registered and insured. Plus if it is towed (parked with no plates) how would you ever get it back? AFAIK only the registered owner can get it.
SortByCont@reddit
If you don't have the title you don't own a car.
Away-Historian-2685@reddit
100% agreed
corporaterebel@reddit
plenty of states where after a certain age: no title required. crazy I know.
Shadowfeaux@reddit
Shit, the state of Maine doesn't issue titles for motorcycles under 300cc either.
EuroCanadian2@reddit
If the car is titled in CA the seller can orfer a replacement https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv-virtual-office/replacement-title/
This seems to cover most of the questions. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/titles/title-transfers-and-changes/#:~:text=Use%20it%20to%20transfer%2C%20update,the%20title%20must%20be%20updated.
1453_@reddit
How would you know whether it was stolen? Always get a legit title and check the identification of the seller to confirm it matches the title. You may also want to run a carfax report prior to closing the deal.
118545@reddit
I’m betting it has a title loan so the seller hopes you’ll accept a bill of sale and you’ll be stuck with an albatross.
trivialempire@reddit
No title. No purchase.
Otherwise you’ve got a yard ornament on wheels
Minute_Split_736@reddit
California is probably one of the worst states to do something like this, but every state is different.
Happy-Deal-1888@reddit
Usually if it isn’t stolen the bank is holding the title. There is no situation where this ends well for you
kmanrsss@reddit
It all depends on your state. I’m in NH and after a certain age a title isn’t required nor will it be issued. Bill of sale and previous registration is what we need
corporaterebel@reddit
Yes, I've done it several times. You need to get a severe discount in price.
Is the car currently registered?
Can you get a smog cert?
You can do a pre check at DMV with the VIN, telling them that you want to register the vehicle. And they'll give you the status and what fees are required.
Garrentheflyingsword@reddit
You should mention what star your in. In many states getting a title on an older car/ below a certain value just require an affidavit of ownership or similar which is not that hard. Obviously you should do you due diligence to ensure the car isn't stolen or anything else fishy is going on.
SecretOrganization60@reddit
Sure. Do the entire transaction at the DMV in front of the DMV official.
neomoritate@reddit
No. No title, no ownership.
The legal owner of the car, who is the only person that can legally sell the car, can get the title. It's easy and cheap.
Inner_Painting_8329@reddit
It's the stupidest thing you'll do.
sonofamusket@reddit
I heard recently that in Wyoming, trying to sell a vehicle without a title is punishable by law.