Videos show fresh evidence of Israeli support for Gaza militia
Posted by nvdnqvi@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 169 comments
Footage verified by Sky News shows a Gaza militia transporting supplies from the direction of an IDF base or the Israeli border.
Khers@reddit
So all that fake outrage Zionists had about executions a few days ago was mainly done on these militias and collaborators.
So step 1 is to arm militias to steal aid and other sabotage and blame Hamas, step 2 is to use their deaths as propaganda to further paint Hamas as mindlessly savage that are "killing innocent Palestinians" to justify Israels genocide.
It's really interesting that Israel is making Hamas, a brutal dictatorship and terrorist organisation, look like the moral and good side in all of this. Despite the hundreds of millions spent on Hasbara.
FudgeAtron@reddit
So you believe extra judicial murders carried out by Hamas are legitimate because a family member fought Hamas? I.e. if your cousin fought Hamas it's legitimate to execute you without trial?
Or are you implying somehow that Hamas are holding trials for these people?
Tetr4Freak@reddit
So your extrajudicial killings are ok but theirs are bad.
Ok. Got it.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Whataboutism at its finest. We are talking about Hamas's extrajudicial killings, yet you want to bring up Israel's extra judicial killings.
Do you believe one justifies the other or how else are they connected?
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
They have been extrajudicially killing those who have been assisting Israel in extrajudicially killing people.
Collaborators are the lowest of the low. If any innocents are injured as a result then that is deeply unfortunate, but do you seriously expect Hamas to not fight back against people who have been aiding a genocide?
FacelessMint@reddit
This is the exact type of justification any hardline pro-Israeli person could use...
Collaborators with Hamas are the lowest of the low. If any innocents are injured as a result of fighting them, that is deeply unfortunate, but do you seriously expect Israel to not fight back against people who invaded their country, slaughtered civilians, engaged in conflict related sexual violence and took over 200 people as hostages?
It does not hold water.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Are Israel currently occupied by Hamas?
FacelessMint@reddit
It's not exactly relevant... Resisting occupation does not negate the response to brutal civilian massacres, sexual violence, and the taking of hostages (all war crimes that are absolutely not allowed by International Humanitarian Law even by a group resisting occupation).
Tetr4Freak@reddit
What I am saying:
Stop doing shit before accusing someone to do the same shit. Hypocrisy dude.
FudgeAtron@reddit
What did I do?
Are you saying I personally am behind every death in the war? Or are you saying that because I'm Israeli?
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Or you just try to smear campaigns on us?
FudgeAtron@reddit
Are you saying you're involved in the extrajudicial killings of Palestinians?
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Or you just using your identity "Israeli" as defence from criticism? When we pointing out, you accused us we attack you because you are Israeli?
FudgeAtron@reddit
I mean the OP accused me of extra-judicial murder. I don't know where you're getting your statements.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
We not accusing you, we just told you like where are you and other people who complain of Hamas extra-judical murder when Israel did same
860v2@reddit
So your extrajudicial killings are ok but theirs are bad.
Ok. Got it.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
No it just double standards
Khers@reddit
Prime example of the fake outrage and concern trolling I mentioned.
Judging by your flag, you are in support of 93%+ of deaths in Gaza being civilian. Only now when Hamas kills people, some of them possibly not being militia, you suddenly "care".
860v2@reddit
If you cared about Palestinians, you wouldn't spend all your time pushing them to continue "resisting" from your couch thousands of miles away.
EH1987@reddit
Please stop concern trolling, it's an affront to basic decency. No one is pushing them to do anything, we simply support the right of Palestinians to resist occupation and oppression.
bradicality@reddit
Give it a rest ya darn fruitcakes, no one outside of israel or worldnews is buying it anymore :(
Jmastersj@reddit
No I would ofc lick your boots so you can oppress them for a few more decades on their land that you have settler colonized. Canaanites were there before you, so you can keep your promised land myths to yourself. (Not that I think it's a valid argument, but it does not even hold up)
Palestinians loose = haha sore losers dont start a war you cant win
Israelis get expelled = sore losers for 3000 years
FudgeAtron@reddit
I'm considering this personal attack.
I do enjoy the lack of argument though it's very telling.
Khers@reddit
Nah the argument has been the same the entire time. That the outrage over Hamas actions by Zionists is entirely fake and cynically used as propaganda.
If you're personally offended by me holding up a mirror, get thicker skin while spreading Hasbara.
FudgeAtron@reddit
So let me get this straight in your view is that it is just and morally correct for Hamas to murder Palestinians without trial so long as they are accused of collaboration?
I just want to understand your view because you do seem to believe Hamas are a moral organization, so is the extra-judicial murder of Palestinians on accusations of collaboration moral?
Khers@reddit
Yes, me calling them a brutal dictatorship and terrorists is me endorsing their actions. You got me.
Simlin97@reddit
If Hamas agreed to a ceasefire, but then kept funding and arming militias in Israeli territory to harrass and attack Israeli military bases during the ceasefire, would you consider this breaking the ceasefire (or a massive provocation at least)?
FudgeAtron@reddit
Does that justify extra-judicial murder of Gazans by their own government?
Would it have been justified in 1945 for ex-Nazis to murder those in Austria who were helping to rebuild?
Monterenbas@reddit
Isn’t a bit rich, after bombing Gaza back to the stone age, to complain about the lack of a proper judicial procedure and infrastructure, right afterward?
FudgeAtron@reddit
It's a bit telling you think there was judicial procedure for political crimes in Gaza.
It's no different than Afghanistan, you speak out, you're tortured publically and your family are targeted by the state.
Simlin97@reddit
This situation isn't even slightly comparable to post-WWII Austria. For one, the Allies weren't funding death squads to hijack humanitarian aid trucks and indiscriminately kill Austrian civilians. They also didn't randomly bomb Vorarlberg after Nazi Germany surrendered and the peace treaty was signed. They actually funded a large part of rebuilding areas destroyed by the war and stimulated the Austrian post-war economy through the Marshall plan.
But to answer your question: extrajudicial killings are bad. However there's a difference between murdering civilians, or "those who want to rebuild" and executing operatives funded by an enemy state meant to destabilize the region.
FudgeAtron@reddit
The fact you can't see the connection between the Nazis and Hamas is telling. A genocidal death cult that started a war it couldn't win to achieve unrealistic goals ultimately leading to its own nations utter defeat and destruction.
The difference is that after WW2 everyone decided that it was over for the Nazi, whereas here people like yourself want Hamas to run Gaza. It is people such as yourself, that support continued Hamas rule in Gaza that lead them to believe that they will be able to run Gaza afterwards.
If they knew they wouldn't be able to run Gaza afterwards they wouldn't feel confident enough to go out and murder people. But because you guys hate Israel more than you love Palestinians, you allow Hamas to do these things.
You and every westerner who has provided them with diplomatic cover and support is responsible.
Either you support Hamas or you Gazans, it can't be both.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
Sorry buddy, but nobody can take seriously the Oct 8th propaganda display of Khamas being a Nazi death cult
I sure wouldn’t want them running any country given the choice, but executing collaborators of the country that has explicitly stated its intention and tried to diplomatically maneuver a Madagascar plan for your starved people is what anyone would do. Zionazis have no moral ground to decry that.
FudgeAtron@reddit
I love how you used a lot of words to say I hate Israel more than Hamas so therefore I'm ok with the murder of regular Gazans to help enforce Hamas rule.
TheAlphaKiller17@reddit
Why is it that when Israel funds a terrorist group, the news calls them a "militia" but the militia who fights against that terrorist group is branded a "terrorist organization" only?
protomenace@reddit
Why is it when Iran funds a terrorist group, you guys all call it a "resistance"?
protomenace@reddit
Why do you always just believe everything Hamas says at face value?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So your for Palestinians killing other Palestinians? Just say who you don’t like out loud.
2009miles@reddit
Do you expect them to let saboteurs just work among those in Gaza, while getting supplies from Israel, and pretend like that isn't a problem?
Just say what people you want to see wiped out out loud.
Gaff_Daddy@reddit
The problem with that is we see Trump making accusations towards say the Venezuelan boats and people get upset and say they require a trial, not an execution. But then when Hamas makes an accusation, you… just believe it? Shouldn’t an accused saboteur require a trial also? You’re actually not any morally superior to people supporting Israel, you support the same behavior, you’re just on the other side.
2009miles@reddit
"what about something else we're not talking about and i don't even know your position on"
They don't have the infrastructure to be holding investigations, arrest people, take them to trial and then put them in jail. What they can do is grab those who are firing against them and make an example out of them.
The difference between that and what Trump is doing with Venezuelan boats is fairly obvious.
That's a cackler, everyone on Palestine's side is supposed to be an angelic being who only accepts non-violent action, while Israelis supporting genocide gets justified daily for over two years now.
Gaff_Daddy@reddit
Oh so you’re ok with Trump doing it? Just because I don’t “know” your position doesn’t mean I’m wrong. There’s no difference morally between either action.
They should detain them instead of shooting them on the street. It’s not hard. They’ve held hostages for 2 years, they can’t detain people?
People don’t have to be anything, but don’t get morally superior if you’re going to be a hypocrite yourself.
2009miles@reddit
How did you get that from what i wrote?
No difference between the government of the US and whatever exists in Gaza that i wouldn't even call a government, sure bud.
They held those Israelis for leverage, there's no leverage in holding random gang members.
You're the one who has now twice ascribed moral superiority to me, i didn't claim that. Try to think about why that is.
Gaff_Daddy@reddit
That was sarcasm. I know you’re not ok with Trump doing it despite you trying to pretend like “maybe I am, you don’t know me!”
No moral difference between any government that summarily executes someone, yes. And that includes Israel too, before you try to ascribe some ideology to me.
2009miles@reddit
Bit of a difference when one government can easily apprehend people, take them to court and arrest them, while the other is barely even a government and has no facilities left to do any of the above mentioned steps.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Buddy, Hamas is killing people that disagree with them, same as always. Have they stayed in power through democracy?
2009miles@reddit
It's groups literally getting armed by a foreign power, what would Israel do if the same was happening in Tel Aviv? These groups are being propped up to sabotage the future of Palestinians, Hamas is doing something good for once.
They barely have power due to the conditions Israel imposed on Gaza, airport destroyed, no ports, no sovereignty over their own land. Unless by "stay in power" you mean something else.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Who cares who arms them? They were fighting amongst themselves before this current war started. There has been internal conflict in Gaza since the elections of 2005.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” a military tale as old as time.
2009miles@reddit
You are too dishonest to engage in conversation about this, have a nice day.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Iran arms Hamas, you cry when Iran gets bombed by Israel it’s the same principle.
2009miles@reddit
I'm sorry, do i have to pull up the same tired article explaining how Israel and Netanyahu in particular allowed Hamas to grow in order to stoke division within Palestinian populations? How they sent money and weapons to Hamas when it was useful for them and then, after it became too much of a political problem, had Qatar do it for them? How when Qatar stopped the flow of cash they had Mossad hold talks with Qatari powers to ensure that money kept flowing in?
Fairly sure you know which article i mean.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Oh here we go with this again. I hate Netanyahu who, but the truth is as follows. NETANYAHU FACILITATED THE TRANSFER OF QATARI CASH TO HAMAS WHEN THE PA CUT FUNDING TO GAZA. Palestinians would have starved and been without services. I encourage you to look up how funding is distributed to Gaza through PA as they’re the officially recognized government of Palestine. Find some pre-requisite knowledge before posting garbage.
2009miles@reddit
The PA don't even control the collection of taxes, Israel does. If Israel wanted to fund Gaza they didn't need to go through Qatar, they wanted to ensure large sums of cash kept going into Hamas, not for the people. If they wanted to help the people they'd have let more aid through and not also funded directly and gave weapons to groups who were actively stealing aid. Yes, because as it turns out Hamas weren't the ones stealing aid.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/25/politics/us-government-review-no-evidence-widespread-theft-gaza-aid
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
“Despite the Palestinian Authority (PA)’s criticism of Hamas for the disaster and ruin it has brought to the Gaza Strip, the PA not only continues to urge Hamas to join the PLO, but also continues to provide funding for the Hamas-ruled Strip.
Earlier this month, PA Prime Minister Muhammad Mustafa assured Hamas that the PA would continue to “provide the operational budget and salaries to fund different activities.””
https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/11/01/palestinian-authority-says-it-still-gives-money-not-just-aid-to-hamas-government-in-gaza-strip/
Israel obviously stopped sending tax revenue to Gaza after its government invaded Israel in 2023.
2009miles@reddit
I'm sorry, how does this contradict any of what i said?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
“I'm sorry, do i have to pull up the same tired article explaining how Israel and Netanyahu in particular allowed Hamas to grow in order to stoke division within Palestinian populations?”
How did Gaza become the government of Gaza again? It want with Israeli help.
2009miles@reddit
I explained that, your lack of reading skills are not my problem.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Lmao that’s not how they became the government of Gaza. At least try to find the correct answer before making it personal.
2009miles@reddit
Please do explain, in your view, how did Hamas come to win the elections?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Because the PLO was corrupt and dragged the Palestinians into violence multiple times and failed at negotiating peace. Palestinians overwhelmingly voted for Hamas, because they were viewed as a different option. Now how did the power sharing agreement that came out of the elections end with Hamas controlling Gaza?
2009miles@reddit
And because Hamas has been able to grow under the shadow of Israel.
"Overwhelmingly".
You've not seen the election results, have you?
Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
44.45% for Hamas and 41.43% for Fatah. Truly overwhelming.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Still a majority in a government based on seats isn’t it? Stop taking agency away from Palestinians, while also advocating for it. It’s gross.
2009miles@reddit
Nice way to try to weasel out of being caught in a blatant lie.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
I said they won’t a majority. That’s a statistical majority? Attack the information, not me as a person.
2009miles@reddit
Also you: "Palestinians overwhelmingly voted for Hamas"
Because that's exactly what the strategy by Israel was, to create a split between these two groups.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So between 2005 and 2007 there was a power splitting structure. Your intellectual honesty is astounding, what stopped the power splitting structure?
2009miles@reddit
There was a contentious power splitting structure with two parts that did not agree with each other at all, obviously it was going to blow up as Fatah was organizing their side to oust Hamas and a Hamas was organizing to take control of what they could. Once again, this is exactly why Israel propped up Hamas, they've openly stated as much.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Buddy, Hamas doesn’t even blame Israel for the civil war they started in Gaza.
2009miles@reddit
A is trying to ensure B does not reach a majority, to do that they prop up C, allowing them to grow, funding them and giving them weapons. C eventually gains enough public support in part due to B's corruption, in other part due to A not allowing for an actual solution to be reached, which made B look weak. B and C were at odds from the start and then they're supposed to govern a land together. B and C don't manage to do that and a split happens.
According to you this was impossible to predict.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Lmao ok bud. You probably believe the hospital and press thing are myths too. From human rights watch on the 2007 Gaza civil war.
“Human Rights Watch accused both sides of violating international humanitarian law, in some instances amounting to war crimes. For example, Fatah and Hamas fighters targeted and killed people not involved in hostilities, and engaged in gun battles near and even inside hospitals. The accusations also included public executions of captives and political opponents, throwing prisoners off high-rise apartment buildings, and shooting from a jeep marked with press insignia.”
“More than 1,000 persons, mostly members of Fatah or the PNA, were illegally arrested or detained in the first months of Hamas rule. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights and Amnesty International documented many instances of people being abducted and tortured by Hamas militants.”
“As a result of the battle, Hamas took complete control of Gaza. The pro-Fatah view is that it was a plain military coup by Hamas. The pro-Hamas view is that the US drew up a plan to arm Fatah cadres with the aim of forcefully removing Hamas from power in Gaza, and that Fatah fighters, led by commander Mohammed Dahlan with logistical support from the US Central Intelligence Agency, were planning to carry out a bloody coup against Hamas.[43] Then, Hamas pre-emptively took control over Gaza”
HAMAS BLAMES THE US, not Israel. Fatah blames HAMAS, not Israel. So again which Palestinians did Israel help for their conquer and divide strategy?
2009miles@reddit
You seem to think i'm a Hamas defense lawyer, i am aware they have a spotted past to say the least.
No need to shout buddy, Israel and the US are a coalition of one in all issues related to the region, they give weapons to Israel and Israel often times puts weapons where they shouldn't for tactical reasons.
What part of them openly talking about bolstering Hamas is going over your head?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
You’re defending them in all your posts. You said Israel is responsible for them and the civil war in Gaza. Own your argument.
2009miles@reddit
I'm defending armed resistance against Israeli troops or other militias armed by Israel.
And yes, Israel is responsible for them and the civil war in Gaza.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So again, the “collaborators” they’re maiming and executing in public aren’t part of the IDF. Hamas kills anyone that opposes them. You’re ok with them killing whomever they want. It’s ok for them to operate out of hospitals and press vehicles?
2009miles@reddit
They are effectively part of Israel, fighting on their behalf. Netanyahu himself said so.
I've already stated that is not correct multiple times, but i guess you think if you say it enough it will come true. Keep trying.
No. Nor is it ok for the IDF to target hospitals or press vehicles under the supposition that they are Hamas.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Everything opposed to Hamas must be Israel. We’ve just established the rift between Palestinian governments wasn’t caused by Israel. Israel armed Hamas’ opposition, that doesn’t “make them IDF”. We’ve also established Hamas has a long history of killing anyone and everyone they want. Hamas isn’t just killing one militia, they’re killing all opposition, even groups just speaking out. It’s happened multiple times in their 20 years they’ve been in charge.
2009miles@reddit
Literally everything you claim there was "established" is just you saying shit you believe to be true.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
I gave you the sources bud, ignoring them doesn’t make you right it makes you ignorant.
2009miles@reddit
Where Gr1zzly? Where?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Scroll up, plenty of quoted text you can find sources for.
2009miles@reddit
So you mean exactly what i said above? You truly are something else lmao
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Oh look it is.
The Portuguese government does not support Hamas. Portugal officially considers Hamas a terrorist organization as a member of the European Union, which has designated the group as such.
Portugal's official policy advocates for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, in which Israel and a future Palestinian state would coexist peacefully and securely.
Hamas doesn’t allow for a two state solution. Stop depending them.
2009miles@reddit
Neither do I, i specified what exact actions i am ok with them doing. Your mental gymnastics and twisting of words must be tiring.
As does Hamas. Do you even know what the parties to the conflict want?
"Hamas’ new 2017 charter officially codifying the possibility of a two state solution with Israel is a welcome development." (I'm using your style of quoting here)
Likud's original charter and current government both oppose a two state solution, Hamas isn't the one stopping it.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
“With a Keyboard: Windows, Mac, Mobile To copy and paste, select the text or item you want to copy, press Ctrl + C on Windows or ⌘ + C on Mac, then click where you want to paste and press Ctrl + V on Windows or ⌘ + V on Mac. Alternatively, you can right-click the selected item and choose "Copy," then right-click the new location and choose "Paste”
“To copy and paste on Android or iPhone, long-press on the text you want to select, adjust the highlighted area using the handles, tap "Copy" in the menu, then long-press where you want to paste and tap "Paste"
Free lessons are done for today. Let’s send your support of Hamas and the indiscriminate killing of innocents to the Portuguese government and see what they think. I’m sure they’d land somewhere closer to my opinion than yours.
2009miles@reddit
I'm going to start quoting shit without a source too and say "just google it", mind boggling that you think that's normal.
How about you learn how to cite/quote stuff?
Are you genuinely threatening to send these comments to the Portuguese government? And once again you paint me as a Hamas supporter when i was fairly precise with what exactly i support. Your scare tactics are hilarious but your twisting of words is beyond boring at this point.
Why do you think i care about what my government thinks about this issue?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
It actually is ok for Israel to target hospitals if they’re being used by Hamas, they lose all legal protections. Is it ethical or moral? No. But neither is putting their infrastructure under them.
2009miles@reddit
Why do you reply twice to my comment? Are you paid by the comment?
And you literally have video of random people in a hospital being targeted, including the rescue personnel, hospital staff and journalists being hit not just once, but twice. That's beyond the pale.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Here come the attacks on my motives, just move on. You’re wrong, learn the history.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Who distributes them to Hamas buddy? Stop blaming Israel and tell the truth.
2009miles@reddit
What are you even trying to ask here?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
You said Netanyahu propped up Hamas, that’s a disingenuous oversimplification.
2009miles@reddit
Alright, here's the article.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
“According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas looking on as he receives Palestinian athletes in Ramallah in the West Bank on August 4, 2023. (Wissam KHALIFA/PPO/AFP) The same messaging was repeated by right-wing commentators, who may have received briefings on the matter or talked to Likud higher-ups and understood the message”
So hearsay from some event, then contradicts itself by saying Netanyahu doesn’t make these statements publicly. The messaging was repeated by some on the far right who “may have received briefing” yeah… sure if that’s definitive proof to you, you have pretty poor standards.
2009miles@reddit
How is saying someone famously says something in private and then does not say it in public "contradicting itself"?
Once again, you are out of arguments and grasping at straws. Hands down the worst Hasbara spreader i've ever had the displeasure of exchanging comments with.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Because they’re saying he said it at an event, then say he doesn’t say it publicly. Those are contradictory statements.
2009miles@reddit
Do you genuinely not an understand the difference between a meeting and a public event?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
“n public" means in a place where people can see you, openly, and without privacy”
Is a meeting in public or not? Any other contextual arguments you’d like to make?
2009miles@reddit
Party meetings are closed door events for party members where party strategy is discussed. How far removed from politics are you?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
In public means amongst other people. It’s still hearsay, which isn’t any form of admissible evidence.
2009miles@reddit
That's a fairly niche definition of public you're going for, does that mean that if you're at home with two other people that counts as public too?
Also who the hell said this needs to be admissible in court?
Jmastersj@reddit
Why not deliver something non fungible like aid. Also its not true. Yahoo literally talked about bolstering hamas. You are denying confirmed facts about the 2ss divide and conquer. Why do pro israelis always need to lie or omit to argue?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Oooh yahoo said it! It must be true. What happens if Israel doesn’t allow Qatari money in to fund the government and services of Gaza?
Jmastersj@reddit
Netynyahoo. I dont know but surely it's worse than dropping 5-6t of explosives per gazan. Maybe hamas would be toppled by the palestinians if netynyahoo did not support them. And your claim might be true, but doesn't negate the political goal of avoiding the 2ss and giving palestinians human rights. They could have avoided this Schlamassel by treating the palestinians like humans before and idk allowing them to trade with the outside world? Dont need nefarious quatari funding then. Also they could have given direct aid and not money that hamas surely did not misuse to finance oct 7th
Jmastersj@reddit
Oh no they killed how many palestinians per year? Sometimes zero, sometimes 12 or so. If someone would just protect the palestinians from hamas. Surely they will kill 70000 of them and destroy like 90% of infrastructure 🥲
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Classic, absolve Hamas of all guilt for the death of its people. Israel should just let its citizens die next time right?
Jmastersj@reddit
Maybe don't oppress people for decades? What do you think treatment like this breeds. People have a certain point where they see no other way out of desperation. Israeli sovereignity is the most important thing in the world, but treating palestinians like subhumans is fine, they are not jews after all!
The only way to change is put responsibility on Israel to humanize others, be better and give the palestinians human rights. Yes, even non jews 😥
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
You should look back into history and find where the violence started. Wha came first, 1920 or 1931? Who didn’t accept a partition plan and got all their Arab buddies to try to genocide the Jews multiple times?
Jmastersj@reddit
Why would they accept giving land to a racist ethnocolonial entity, that clearly premidated the expulsion. They new that for their cool jewish majority needed project they would have to get the palestinians already living their of their land. Zionist founders talked about it. Arabs are not stupid. They removed tenants by buying land from absentee landlords, which yes is technically legal but a vile thing to do. And then they boycotted them economically.
Ben gurion already said the partition is just a stepping stone for more land grabs.
And they still on that zionist greater israel shit and teach that to toddlers and their teenage settlers.
They are ideological cancer with a victimhood complex combined with ethnic superiority. That shit would have never ended well.
Ofcourse no one objected while they were just profiting and making themselves comfy on the backs of the indigenous people and their land. I was not aware of any history before this. But when a "democracy" (its apartheid, yes also in israel proper) starts a genocide people will suddendly pay attention. There is no going back from this
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Israel existed in 1920? Wow you learn something new everyday.
Jmastersj@reddit
No but zionist were arriving already. Congrats for nitpicking. Didnt see that in your playbook:
Here are some of the key excerpts from Frank Luntz's 2009 propaganda playbook, "The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary."
The entire document is based on one principle, which he states at the beginning:
"Remember, it's not what you say that counts. It's what people hear."
On Avoiding Historical Arguments (Your Specific Request)
Luntz is explicit that debating the history of the conflict is a losing proposition for the pro-Israel side. He advises a complete pivot away from facts and toward a vague, emotional appeal for a better "future." "The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a process, not a destination. But the public wants a destination, not a process. You're never going to win the debate on the history of the 'peace process.' Instead, talk about what you want for your children and the Palestinian children. Talk about your vision of the future."
Other "Spicy" Excerpts on Propaganda Tactics
On Constantly Repeating the Word "Peace"
"The best way to show that Israel is committed to peace is to use the word peace... If you want to be a credible Israeli spokesperson, you have to be for peace. 'I want to see a day when Israeli and Palestinian children can grow up together, play together, and live together in peace.' Use that line."
On How to Talk About Settlements
Luntz advises to stop using the word "settlements" and to completely avoid defending the right to be there. Instead, the focus should be on the people. "Take the issue of settlements, for example. It's time to stop talking about 'settlements' and start talking about 'communities' and 'neighborhoods.' And stop defending the 'right' of settlements and instead talk about the 'reality' that these communities are not going to be dismantled."
On How to Justify the Gaza Blockade
The memo provides a specific, pre-packaged answer for how to defend the siege of Gaza, framing it as a security measure to protect civilians on both sides. Question: 'How can you defend the blockade of Gaza?' Answer: 'I can't defend the blockade of Gaza, because there is no blockade of Gaza. There is a security inspection of goods that enter Gaza to prevent the importation of bombs and missiles. We are trying to stop the weapons that Hamas uses to target and kill civilians. The real blockade is the one Hamas has imposed on its own people by choosing terror over prosperity.'
On Relentlessly Blaming Hamas for Palestinian Suffering
The most consistent advice in the entire document is to always pivot back to blaming Hamas for everything. "The average person does not know much about Hamas. You must define what Hamas is and what it stands for before you can ask the public to stand with Israel in its fight... Clearly state that Hamas is a terrorist organization... that it is funded by Iran... and that it is the Hamas leadership—not the Israeli blockade—that is the true cause of the suffering of the Palestinian people."
Listen to that zionist. He was smart enough to understand that arguing on facts is a lost cause for israel. Cause you cant defend the indefensible with logic and reason and morality
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Not nitpicking, it was your argument. Own it.
Jmastersj@reddit
Bro stop it. I know this as well. You are now forcing loops now. I'm not wasting more time on you.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
The ‘disagreement’ being ‘you have been aiding and assisting in the genocide of our people’
I really hope you get paid for posting stuff this bad-faith
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So it’s ok for Hamas to kill whoever they want?
Jmastersj@reddit
Israel can take them in. Oh shucks they are to racist and focused on supremacy to allow them to muddle their ethnic majority :(
2009miles@reddit
They literally have taken some of them in too, letting them roam free in areas where civilians have been killed for having dared to be in.
"The armed group is one of four active anti-Hamas militias identified by Sky News - all of them based inside parts of Gaza still controlled by Israel."
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So you’re cool with Palestinians killing other Palestinians? Hamas definitely wouldn’t use this as an excuse to murder people who spoke out against them, held demonstrations or are part of opposition groups?
2009miles@reddit
I'm cool with Hamas taking out groups being funded by Israel, which is what is happening. Quit trying to twist it.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
So you’re just a hamas super fan?
2009miles@reddit
Are you a Islamic State super fan? Are you a Gazan gang funded by Israel super fan?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
No, I actually care about peace. There can be no peace with Hamas or Netanyahu in power. You’re a Hamas super fan, you’re saying they basically have the right to indiscriminately kill anyone they want. Was October good or bad for the average citizen of Gaza?
2009miles@reddit
I never said anything even remotely close to that.
Obviously bad, what even is that question?
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Because Hamas made the decision. You’re defending them, defend their violence. Defend the decision to ruin the lives of people in Gaza and Israel.
2009miles@reddit
And when did i defend that decision?
I defend their right to end the groups propped up by Israel to generate dissent.
You've got to be kidding, Israel has kept all remaining Palestinian territory under occupation since 1967 but their greatest oppressor is supposed to be Hamas. What a twist of the facts.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
You are saying they can kill all collaborators. If that’s your stance then clearly you’re ok with them killing Israelis, who you view as oppressors. It’s a fair question to ask.
Let’s review the 1967 borders shall we:
“During the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel acquired control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), and the Golan Heights. These territories were captured from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, respectively.”
So which land did they steal from “Palestine” again?
2009miles@reddit
I am completely ok with them killing armed members of Israeli backed groups or Israel. You are trying to claim i am ok with them killing civilians, two very different things.
Beside the actual answer being "all of Israel", since 1967 the Palestinians have not been allowed to establish an independent government to run their affairs, control their borders, have their own trade agreements you know the basic stuff a nation does.
This has been the stated objective from Israel, who keeps their land occupied and avoids the reaching of any solution, be it one or two state.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Buddy they killed college kids dancing in the desert and people who formerly employed gazans or helped them get to hospitals for charity operations, kids and retirees.
2009miles@reddit
Please do source that for me.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Good argument. Go read some history and come back.
2009miles@reddit
You're claiming shit without providing any sort of timeframe, source or context, how am i supposed to say "yeah you're right" or "actually no, because X" if i genuinely have no idea what the fuck you're on about.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
I’ve provided you multiple sources, you have yet to send me anything but a news article.
2009miles@reddit
Are you ok? You sent me one news article and quoted wikipedia. What other "multiple sources" did you provide?
Jmastersj@reddit
If the 11 gazans just knew of this lifehack! 7 children 3 women or was it the other way? Hard to keep track with so many dead children
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
That’s why there are Arab and Palestinians residents of Israel right?
Jmastersj@reddit
Bro I dont have the energy to refute the same talking point over and over again, get some new ideas. We both know israel caused the tension + morroco deal + false flag bombings in egypt. False equivalency to the nakba, if the zionist settler project didnt steal the land the jews might have been fine were they were, antisemtism was imported from europe and actually only popular because zionist actions made everyone hate them.
I could expand and make it better, but i refuted this shit 10 times now. Next
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
It’s not a false equivalence in this context. It’s proof of other actual oppressive ethnostates in the region, something Israel isn’t even close to. Your argument is they won’t take them in because they’re racist. That’s what we call a strawman.
Jmastersj@reddit
Who won't take who in? The state that literally requires an ethnic majority to exist and doesn't let their token arabs build houses so they cant naturally multiply to endanger their majority numbers?
And that gives contraceptives without knowledge to jews, because they are black. Cause yeah jewish is pretty good, but the black aspect kinda balances the fact out for the israelis.
They complain about arabs voting and put cameras in their voting districts only. You cant twist the facts, because they are facts. And there are too many adding up to show us patterns.
Israel and usa and other imperial powers have big responsibility for destabilizing the region btw, in case you didn't know that.
Free palestine and free it now
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Your argument is that Israel wouldn’t take the militia they armed in because they’re racist. What are you typing books for? You made a strawman argument and it lead to nowhere.
Jmastersj@reddit
Yes they wouldn't. No palestinians in israel proper if they are not already citizens. Do you not believe they are a deeply racist nation?
860v2@reddit
2009miles@reddit
If only there was a way to confirm that Israel was doing this, they'd never openly admit to it tho
860v2@reddit
Jmastersj@reddit
Hamas was Opposition you guys founded. Also hamas has honestly a better track record of trustworthiness than zionists.
Israel literally lied about their foundation, cause the truth was to horrid for international observers. Oh who am i kidding, israelis narcissism commended that
860v2@reddit
You just did exactly what I said you do. Major self own.
Jmastersj@reddit
Cool. Anything of substance to add or just the usual dishonest debate tactics? If so you can preserve both our mental resources and just not
2009miles@reddit
Nah, i'll take your word for it. Or the word of Israel. Or the word of groups getting paid and armed by Israel.
Now that's gospel.
860v2@reddit
This is a foreign concept to you but you can always just follow the evidence. You don't have to twist yourself into a pretzel defending mass extrajudicial executions just because you don't like Israel.
IAMADon@reddit
No matter how hard they try to clutch at anything to deflect from the IDF executing children, we can always count on two things:
upbeatchief@reddit
These militia are an asset to the israelis. Killing them hurts them because they see the years and effort the expanded being wasted.
These militias are also likely at the heart of Israel's plan to return to fighting in gaza. Make one of their goons fire a rocket near the israeli troops and viola, you you have a war again. That's why the Palestinan forces are hunting them down.
dova_kinn@reddit
and they will continue with air strikes , 3 strikes in Rafah right now. Israel is a rabid dog it needs to be put down.
Brief_Fly6950@reddit
Hamas denied targeting families as a whole, but family members believe some innocents were executed as well. It’s a good thing to punish traitors, but field executions with no real trial are highly likely to include innocents too.
lacyboy247@reddit
Do you really believe it
860v2@reddit
This would be way funnier if you weren't actually being serious.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Hamas isn't just one
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
We need to remember that this model is in no way exceptional. It's been more or less the norm for decades. Remember when the US military was supporting narco warlords in Afghanistan. Arming criminals to disrupt the enemy has been a tool of war for a very long time.
So try to keep it in mind next time the US is accusing a Global South government of military crackdowns. There's a good chance that we actively created that situation by providing military equipment and training to organized crime. Then, we can use the manufactured chaos to impose sanctions to strangle the economy and force more people into the black market. In hopes that the situation will devolve into a coup so the government can be replaced with puppet rulers who will sell off the country' wealth in exchange for personal benefit.
zlex@reddit
This post is completely baffling. So Hamas are a brutal islamofascist dictatorship, but also the clan is spreading hasbara lies that they would ever execute innocent family members of those who turn arms against them?
Zellgun@reddit
While Gazans are struggling and paying exorbitant prices for essential supplies (or even just to withdraw cash), these criminal militias are receiving brand new iPhones, fancy cars and whatever they want from Israel with complicity from the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank.
Israel didn’t hold trials before they decided to publicly mass murder anyone who even was in a photo with Hamas members and Zionists were okay with that.
Why are they surprised when Hamas does the same thing against alleged criminals profiting off the suffering on Gazans?
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human1023@reddit
This is what happens when Israel starts supporting and arming Isis members to oppose Hamas. It's going to lead to internal fighting and instability. Before Hamas was in charge, Israel supported another group back in the 80s and 90s, which would eventually become hamas, to oppose the the previous group in charge which Israel also considered radical.
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Netanyahu is literally on record saying that supporting Hamas is good for Israel, because it delegitamizes the PLA.
Airowird@reddit
It's ironic how apparently the only non-terrorist Palestinians are those getting exposed to be part of an Israeli-funded terrorist organisation meant to destabilize an attempt at peace.
860v2@reddit
And just like that the pro-Palestine crowd is against Palestinians receiving aid.
Simlin97@reddit
We are against these Israeli-funded groups doing what Hasbara bots have accused Hamas of doing - namely stealing and hoarding aid intended for Gazan civilians.
860v2@reddit
Imagine lying to defend a designated terrorist organization.
Simlin97@reddit
The UN, USAID, Amnesty International, Doctors without Borders, the Red Crescent, and many other humanitarian NGOs with boots on the ground in Gaza: there is no evidence for Hamas stealing aid (link)
Abu Mazen from his mansion, far away from Gaza: "Yeah it was probably definitely Hamas, the wind told me so"
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
You mean GHF?
They are scam and sham as slaughterhouse even former contractors confirmed this
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Against the aid being controlled by organized crime that diverts supplies to the black market and uses it to extort the victims. Benefitting the occupations goal to ultimately empty the Strip by maximizing chaos and misery among the people until they have no choice but to flee or die. Allowing Israel to pretend they're allowing "voluntary migration" instead of manufacturing unsurvivable conditions with the specific intent to destroy the group.
In favor of Israel stopping their relentless assault on the professional aid workers rebuilding the systems that Israel systematically destroyed for the purpose of creating conditions calculated to bring about the destruction of Gazans as a people.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
The hasabara bullshit about these gangs only works if you genuinely believe that all Muslims are the same (ie if you’re a racist white supremacist).
Or if you’re too ignorant to know that compradors have always been a thing and have always been the lowest of the low
It’s the same people who will point at the actions of ISIS or Al-Qaeda to explain why Iran and its proxies are bad. It’s all just racism.
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