Ukraine faces IMF pressure to devalue its currency ahead of new loan talks
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 26 comments
imunfair@reddit
All the loans given to Ukraine are gifts at this point, not sure why they're pretending they're ever going to see their money back. Normally the IMF tries to sell off government assets like ports and airports, but in this case that won't really be possible either, the only thing they're getting paid back in is blood.
Pelinth@reddit
Do you really believe that all the support the West is providing Ukraine will.not be repaid in the future?!
imunfair@reddit
I think all the politicians know it too, it's just a game to see how much they can steal from the taxpayers under the guise of loans and other schemes before anyone calls them on it. At some point in the future it'll all be forgiven or written off as bad loans - Ukraine can't even pay its own finances for the foreseeable future much less repay interest on debts, that's why they keep trying to restructure their existing debt and defaulting on payments.
If anyone thought they'd pay it back they'd have interest from private equity at high rates, but since they aren't paying the private loans they already have they're toxic to any lenders.
FrostWyrm98@reddit
Not sure what they'd be "stealing" considering we sell them EOL military surplus equipment that costs money to store and maintain and even more to decommission and dispose of, and then loan them the money to purchase that in the hopes of getting an extra buck off of it, à la Lend Lease.
It's not a novel concept and we've been doing it for close to a century at this point
Plus we are getting invaluable test data in return through real combat experience which isn't exactly easy to come by considering the drastic cost (of lives). That is a part of the agreement to sell them arms.
kinky-proton@reddit
Kickbacks that's how.
Don't know enough to say its happening but it is possible
imunfair@reddit
We give them cash to run their government, the whole "we just give them old surplus" is an ancient myth/talking point from the start of the war
As I said in my previous post, blood is the only currency they have to pay us back.
FrostWyrm98@reddit
Do you have a source for that claim? Because that is literally the premise of lend-lease, otherwise we would literally just be giving them equipment for free, which I don't even see Fox News claiming, because it completely contradicts the premise of war-profiteers gaining from the conflict
I have no knowledge of us funding their government, but it is almost certainly false that none of the lent money goes to Lend-Lease action for the same reason as above, it makes no sense and no major news outlets claim that.
imunfair@reddit
I'm not sure which part you want sourced, I think you're not fully understanding all the revenue streams flowing into Ukraine since you seem really focused on lend-lease and them buying equipment from us.
Biden had his presidential authorization where we would just give them stuff, that wasn't lend-lease it wasn't a loan - the cost was on the back-end to replace all the stuff we took out of inventory, and they played games with the replacement value so it ended up costing taxpayers even more than the allocated amount.
Then you have USAID funds that are just non-military dollars to run their government and other civil stuff, although with the fungible nature of government budgets it really isn't a useful distinction. Then you have EU "loans" pulled from various sources that are used to buy military equipment. You also have stuff like Poland paying for their Starlink and the US paying for their Starshield.
I'm sure there are other costs beyond that but that's just the stuff that instantly comes to mind - there's also the more opaque expenses like the early war EU soviet equipment that we pushed into Ukraine by promising to backfill their militaries with new equipment, not sure who ended up footing the bill for that one but it wasn't Ukraine.
braiam@reddit
All of it? Including your current assertions that were not posted before. BTW, when there's articles like these your whole argument fails.
larper00@reddit
Do you think cash injections to run the government and pay salaries and pensions, running 24/7 ISR flights and providing targeting data, providing ammunition that needs to be replaced (patriot, himars etc) providing countless amount of equipment from rifles to mbts constitutes as only providing EOL surplus equipment? Lol, lmao even.
manek101@reddit
Sadly there are only two outcomes for Ukraine.
Either they'll be colonized by the invader or financially colonized by the west due to the loans.
The stupid decision to invade Ukraine ruined the country forever
skend24@reddit
Ukraine is repaying them as we speak, in blood, by keeping Russia at bay.
GetOutOfTheWhey@reddit
They are given as gifts but with the expectations that after they rebuilt they would officially be indebted and that they would need make trade concessions from time to time to offset the balance.
I am surprised the IMF is doing this now. Usually they would wait after the fighting is over before appearing as the second-arc villains.
Ukraine is now fighting to villains arcs in one go? Fuck.
Stubbs94@reddit
The IMF absolutely guts countries and leaves the working class in tatters. This is the inevitable result of US intervention unfortunately. Ukraine was always gonna lose in some degree.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
This. Its not nicknamed the "Infant Mortality Fund" for no reason.
YourFuture2000@reddit
The loans and support the west is giving to Ukraine is not for Ukraine but it is the west investing in their own interest in in have influence in the region and keep Russua from obtaining the same.
They want you to think it a Ukrain-Russia war but it is also a proxy war.
DennisHakkie@reddit
They aren’t. That’s the entire goal at this point.
Or become occupied by the Russians or become a Western debt puppet.
Just like Lend Lease; it might take 80 years.
geltance@reddit
Someone should audit where that money overall lands.. as I would guess only a fraction reaches Ukraine and then a smaller fraction actually gets spent on what money was intended.
Audit the corrupted bottomless barrel of money laundering
enterisys@reddit
So if Ukraine said they received the money they lied?
Crouteauxpommes@reddit
Most of the money don't even leave the US or Western backers. Money is landed, but it's not like if someone was carrying a bag full of cash all the way to Kiev.
It's more like opening a tab at a bar, since the US and EU are both financing Ukraine and selling them weapons, defense equipment, medical supplies, food, etc... Each country is allowing Ukraine to order for 123k€ from them without upfront payment, basically saying «Win first, we'll discuss payment later™»
And more often than not, this payment is to be mostly taken from Russia's reparations once the war is over. You also have more mercantile deals, like what Trump and Zelensky negotiated about a joint American-Ukrainian exploitation of natural resources, with the revenues generated being understood as a form of payback for the American support.
So you're right when you say that only a fraction reaches Ukraine, but it's not a bug, it's a feature.
Duck_87@reddit
They should just drop that useless currency and move to euro and USD. Don't they want to be part of the EU anyway? Why not start using euro already? Hryvnia is just a worthless waste of paper that corrupt government is using to do "exchange schemes".
imunfair@reddit
They'd be even more screwed if they did that, because once it isn't your own currency you can't print your way out of debt. See South America for how it works out when you take USD denominated debt rather than your own currency - you end up with hyperinflation and a bankrupt state.
FrostWyrm98@reddit
I am confused what point you're trying to make because you can't print your way out regardless? Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic are two quick examples of governments attempting that
Not saying I agree with the other commenter either per se, but it seems like a good point with an example that didn't support it lol
FriedRice2682@reddit
Weimar Republic problem wasn't keeping it's own currency, it was foreign denominated debt (Goldmark) and the amount which was set.
Adopting another currency, which is not your own is a way to remove the government control over its monetary policy and force austerity, which happened in 1924 under the Dawes plan. The Reichsbank was put under international control, which forced austerity by adopting a new currency(Rentenmark) that essentially wiped out all german savings.
This new currency was backed by mortgages on industrial and agricultural land. However, while stabilizing the currency, this plan was backed by big US loan, which got called back in 1929, when the US had their own financial crisis.
While the crisis happened, the german governement kept to it's austerity obligations which led to mass unemployment (30%), hunger and poverty. And we know what happened afterwards; political turmoil and rise of the Nazis.
imunfair@reddit
You can, it just devalues your currency. Obviously if you've taken such large debts that it's worth more than you're country then you're kind of screwed because it inflates the currency by such a large amount, but it's a tool you don't have if your debt is foreign denominated.
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